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Hope After Heartache in Parenting · The Connected Mom

• Becky Harling (00:04.451) Okay, we are officially recording, girls. Well, welcome to the Connected Mom podcast, friends, where we have real conversations, helping you to connect more deeply with God, more empathically with your fellow moms, and more intentionally with your child. I'm Becky Harling. I'm your host. I have with me today, my absolutely amazing co-host, Sarah Wildman. Hey, Sarah. Sarah (00:32.874) Hey, Becky. Hey, we survived holidays. We are in the new year. I'm not sure when we'll air this, but it's gonna be the new year for sure. So happy 2024, everyone. We made it. But this time of year, I was thinking about this recording and it... Becky Harling (00:43.991) Yes, we did make it. Sarah (00:54.77) It can bring up a lot of different things in people's lives. The winter often is not a fun time for people. I know I have some significant loss in my life in February. And so I think that no matter when this airs, that there might be some relatable topics in this podcast. We expect it might be a little heavy, but also encouraging with some hope as well. Is that right? Becky Harling (00:58.965) Mm-hmm. Becky Harling (01:20.679) That's absolutely right. And you know, um, with the rise of teenage depression, anxiety, and suicide, this is a topic we need to talk about. And I really want to encourage those of you that are listening, don't pull away saying, okay, this is too heavy for me, because you need to be aware of this stuff. And I want to promise you, I know our guest really well, you're going to leave with hope and encouragement. So I want to ask you to hang in there with us, but today's guest, I am excited to interview. And what I got to tell you about her is not only is she a dear friend to me, but my husband and I and our kids all call her a double-namer. Now I have to explain what a double-namer is. My kids created this term years ago for somebody who's... Sarah (01:50.422) Mm. Sarah (02:08.189) Mm. Becky Harling (02:13.315) really important, who knows everybody and who is wildly intelligent. And if there's ever been a description of somebody as a double-namer, it's Carrie Spring. She is incredible. She runs Carrie Spring's ministries. She is friends with the Buffalo Bills and the New York Sabres. She works with them at signing events. But beyond that, Carrie is a model to all of us about what it means to trust the Lord. In fact, Carrie, you don't even know this yet, but I have a book coming out in 2024 called Tethered Trust, and I have dedicated that book to you because you have taught me so much about trusting God through the pain and the loss. Carrie has an incredible story that we're going to dive into. Sarah (02:57.994) Oh. Becky Harling (03:10.567) She's a sought after speaker. She's an event planner. She's an avid sports fan. Anything technological, Carrie can do. I mean, she's like, she puts Google to shame really. I mean, she really can do anything. So it is my joy Carrie to welcome you to the show. Sarah (03:21.826) Thanks for watching! keri (03:30.067) Thank you for having me, Becky. I'm not sure all that description is accurate, but you know, I love to serve the Lord He has been my rock from the beginning and it is truly a blessing to work with individuals like yourself and some of your good friends Carol and He just makes life worth living and so if God's involved Sarah (03:47.222) Hmm. Becky Harling (03:52.891) Yeah, absolutely. Sarah (03:55.118) That's awesome. Okay, let's start with the fun topic here, Carrie, of sports. And how did you get involved with the Buffalo Bills and Sabres? Now I'm not familiar with the Sabres, so let me know who that is. keri (04:09.551) Okay, the Buffalo Bills is obviously the football team, great football team, great win this weekend. We're ready to win the division next week at the Miami Dolphins. But the Buffalo Sabres is the, yes, the Buffalo Sabres is the hockey team in the Buffalo area, the professional hockey team. And they are owned by the same person who is also a Christian. So, yeah, it's really an awesome connection. Sarah (04:12.478) I know who the bills are. Yeah. Becky Harling (04:19.519) She's hyped up. Sarah (04:25.512) Oh, okay. Sarah (04:33.314) cool. keri (04:39.975) nonprofit work with them to raise funds for the scholarship in memory of our son, which we'll get into throughout this podcast. And through that connection, not only have we raised thousands and thousands of dollars that we've been able to raise and give away and put in the community and help kids, we've also been able to go in arenas and stadiums and pray with people talk about Christ and It's just been life changing for our group to see where sometimes we plant the seed and never see the results and other times we change the life right in the moment. So that's, you know, a little bit about how we're connected. But there are, you know, some great times where we get to meet a lot of the players at signings and through our faith walk and through who we are as people. We have gotten to meet, you know, a lot of the top people and opportunities that most people don't get. Becky Harling (05:37.111) It's so fun. My grandkids are completely fascinated with Carrie, you know, because I have a couple of grandsons who are avid football fans. And so they love that she gets to go and do this. And it's so fun. But Carrie, your story has not always been fun for sure. Tell us a little bit about your son, Greg, and what happened 10 years ago. Sarah (05:46.196) Uh huh. keri (06:01.751) I had two kids, my daughter Julie Ann who is 29 and my son Greg who actually December 30th would have been 28 years old. So we just sort of had a birthday with him. But you know our son was born, I think they were 18 months apart, 18-19 months apart, but he was born with Closumgist Genesis which is the processing link in your brain that he was born without. and there's nothing to fix it. And then later when he was five or six years old, he was diagnosed with Tourette's and ADHD. So, you know, with the combination of that, learning was difficult, but the biggest thing that he had to overcome was the tics that came along with Tourette's. And obviously when you have tics, you receive bullying. And that we thought over time would get better because the one thing that my son was an outstanding athlete. Sarah (06:54.146) Hmm. keri (06:54.339) He was a hockey goalie, won a state championship. He was outstanding on the soccer field. He was a baseball catcher. And when he did those things, nobody picked on him because he was good at it. But when he was in the classroom and in school and, you know, some of the ticks would happen, he was bowling quite often. And at the age of 17, he took his own life. So we walked through some difficult times in the diagnosis and then finding him ways to succeed in the classroom. He ended up being a regent student, very successful using his hands, going to be a welder too, having him one day give in to the bullion and taking his own life. Becky Harling (07:41.471) Hmm. It's really an incredible story, Carrie, and bullying is such a big thing. keri (07:50.327) Yes, yes, it was, I call it my worst nightmare. And we had no real warning signs. It just, we knew he was bullied. We prayed with him, we had things in place. We would get him counseling. All the things that we would do and never once did he ever talk about taking his own life. But, you know, today, and this is where I think I've learned over the last 10 years, this happened in 2013, is Becky Harling (07:55.114) Yeah. keri (08:19.703) the effect of social media, cell phones, the 24-7 contact that is out there is killing our kids because it just never stops. Where when we were growing up, and yes, I'm probably aging myself a little bit, it would happen in school. It might happen at the workplace, but there were limited times. There were times where they were free from the bullying because you could take it away from them. Nowadays, it's 24-7. Becky Harling (08:31.904) Mmm. Becky Harling (08:49.183) Hmm. Sarah (08:49.36) Mm-hmm. Was that the primary way that Greg was bullied was through social media? Do you know? keri (08:55.923) In the end, I would say that's the part that as parents, we did not know the extent of the bullying that was taking place through social media, through messaging, through all sorts of stuff. And just to give our audience a little bit of just how much we found out afterwards is on the condolence page of the funeral home, a bully wrote, ha ha, he's dead, I hope he's in hell, after he died. So Becky Harling (09:23.012) Mmm. keri (09:26.019) It just kind of made us wake up to say, wow, we knew certain things, his tics were mimicked, those type of things that he would come home and tell us when they go into his workplace and threaten him and tell him to kill himself and those type of things that you could deal face to face with but we never knew the extent of what was happening on the phone or behind the scenes. Becky Harling (09:41.32) Bye bye. Sarah (09:47.954) Hmm. Becky Harling (09:48.223) Hmm. You know, I, um, it's such a hard story, Carrie. And, um, thank you for sharing it. Cause I know how painful this is for you. And yet through it, you somehow. Hung onto your faith. What did that look like for you? Right after, you know, Greg's death. I mean, Sarah (09:50.67) Mm-hmm. Oh my gosh. Becky Harling (10:18.675) What does faith even look like in a moment like that? keri (10:22.499) You know, I would say, first of all, my husband and I and our daughter grieve very differently. I'm one who can get through the moment and then I deal with the grief a little bit afterwards. My husband and my daughter are more in the moment that you just don't know what to do or whatever, but because of the way I had to like, I was like the mold that kept us together at the time. Sarah (10:29.878) Hmm. keri (10:51.603) God really worked it through me and what he kept reminding me is heaven is real and that we would see Greg again and that over and over and over kept coming in and forgiveness was the thing that got us through the week especially after that message came out. We knew before we could in New York, I guess things are faster than maybe in California and stuff, but you passed away. Becky Harling (10:58.015) Mm. keri (11:21.439) on a Monday and on Friday was the funeral and the burial. So it's a little faster, I think, than what most places are. But before we could bury him, God had really laid it on our heart that we had to do some forgiving. And so, you know, we had to forgive the ones that wrote the message. You know, we had to, you know, just kind of forgive ourselves for, you know, any kind of blame because really there was no blame there. We had done... what we could do as parents. We parented him well, we loved him well, we provided a great home for him, we provided the help and everything. So we had to like nix that right there. But the hardest thing in the world that we ever had to do is we had to forgive our son because ultimately he's the one who took his life. No matter what the reason was, no matter where it was, we had to forgive him for not trusting God with his life, for not trusting God that this bullying would end someday, that these kids... are just kids being brats, you know, that they would grow up to. So that I think was the key as we look back now is trusting God with our son and his plan for his life and not our plan for our son's life because we would have had him still here today, but also forgiveness and implementing it into life instead of just saying, well, we'll just let the other people forgive. Look what they're doing to us. We had to forgive ourselves. before we could move forward and even get to the funeral. Becky Harling (12:47.615) Hmm. Sarah (12:51.474) Wow, that's beautiful, Carrie. Becky Harling (12:51.971) Mm-hmm. It's so profound. Before we go on, I want to go back to two things that you said. Number one, you said, I know that Greg's in heaven and I'll see him. And I want our listeners to hear that because some moms, I know other moms whose kids have taken their own life. And, you know, I want you to know that if your son... or do your daughter trusted in Jesus as a child? God holds them and they're with him now. Suicide in no way impacts our ability to get into heaven. It's because of grace. The second thing is, I wanna go back to this diagnosis of Tourette's because I want our listeners to understand the impulsivity that comes with that. Can you explain that a little bit to us, Carrie? keri (13:40.575) Yeah, there's a couple things and the ADHD kind of gives you an idea and I think most people know what that is, but the ticks excel for basically movements that were made that he could not control. The start of it would be he would you know blink his eyes often, he would clap his hands, he might say repetitive words, he would deep swallow on his throat or he would crack his neck. He loved to crack his neck. I thought he was going to break his neck when he cracked it sometimes, but Maybe I was just jealous that I wasn't cracking my neck as well as he was, but, um, you know, all those things would take place and none of it could he control or stop, it would just happen. But the impulsivity came when, um, when he was upset or didn't understand something because without the processing link, if I said to you, one plus one is two, he doesn't process us to understand that and be able to comprehend it. He would have to have it repeated. Becky Harling (14:13.295) Ha ha keri (14:39.127) tons of times for him to process it. So he, as he got older and things were more difficult to understand and learn, he would immediately impulse into a reaction. So if something happened, he may, you know, put his fist against the wall in frustration that he didn't understand that one plus one was two, or whatever the scenario was. He may, you know, just impulse and... Becky Harling (14:40.619) Hmm. keri (15:05.215) you know, get upset and, you know, do something just out of hand. He may just, you know, sometimes it could be hitting something. Sometimes it could be, you know, beating up on himself, shoving something, um, ripping up a paper he just wrote because he was frustrated in an impulse that he wasn't good enough to write it. Those types of things are impulses that he just could not control. But immediately after he would come down from the impulse, almost like somebody would from a seizure. and then need time to digest it and then rest and then be tired and rest. Becky Harling (15:34.126) Mm. Becky Harling (15:40.079) Mm, mm, mm. Sarah (15:42.86) Wow, that was a lot. Yeah, sure. keri (15:43.395) So when he was bullied, yeah, you know, he would impulse a lot from the bullying. Becky Harling (15:49.947) Yeah. No kidding. Sarah (15:52.99) You were talking about forgiveness, Carrie, and I was curious, you know, those of us that grew up in the church, we kind of like, oh, okay, forgive, you know, say I'm sorry. But I have to imagine that forgiveness became a much deeper thing when you're forgiving yourself, forgiving your son. Any other wisdom you'd share on what you learned about forgiveness? I mean, maybe in a much deeper way than... Becky Harling (16:13.268) Mm. Sarah (16:20.97) Maybe some of us think about any other words on that. keri (16:24.211) You know, I will share this. I look at it now and I'm embarrassed that I did it, but I think it will help people who may be not quite there. One of the things that I did, I wrestled with God so much was why my son? You know, I took him to church. I brought him, you know, all these things I tried to wrestle with. Why did you choose my son not to save? Because on that hill that day, God could have stopped that. He's the one person who could, but he chose not to. Becky Harling (16:39.215) Thanks. Sarah (16:51.147) Yeah. keri (16:52.403) And so I was like, you know, hey, so and so, you know, overdose three times and you let the pen bring them back every single time. Or this one was in two car accidents and he's still alive. You know, why my son? And I went, you know, back and forth with those conversations and, you know, just deep down, just real raw, just saying why? Like, wasn't my plan for my son good enough for you guys? Was it, wasn't it? Becky Harling (17:04.299) Mm-hmm. keri (17:21.115) And so what God revealed to me was, I knew your son was coming home. I know those people are not. Now it's your job to make sure they know who I am. And at that point in the grief stage that I went through, I came to a whole new level of trusting God and understanding what true forgiveness was, because Sarah (17:35.841) Wow. Becky Harling (17:36.054) Mmm. Becky Harling (17:50.271) Hmm. keri (17:50.367) If I was forgiving Greg, then it was a deeper still in trusting God, because to forgive Greg meant I trusted God for not choosing to save him. By forgiving the bullies, I meant trusting deeper in God for allowing the bullies to do what they did. Becky Harling (17:59.273) Mmm. Becky Harling (18:05.802) Mm-hmm. keri (18:14.603) And it set up the whole stage of just a deeper level of my faith. And as he began to root in me, he began to root in where I am now 10 years later. But he began, instead of being an angry, keri (18:32.619) someone who would be so depressed that they couldn't leave the house. Instead he had me out trying to figure out what he was going to do with Greg's life. After how he was going to be remembered and where we could keep his legacy going. So it kind of was that twist and turn of, do you really trust me? Show me how much you really trust me. Sarah (18:43.08) Hmm. Mm-hmm. Becky Harling (18:43.221) Mm. Becky Harling (18:55.391) Hmm. And you know, you, you set up this whole scholarship foundation. Tell us a little bit about that because that's directly in Greg's memory. Sarah (18:59.817) Wow, thank you for sharing that. keri (19:11.795) Yeah, it's the Gregory Deep Spring Perseverance Scholarship Fund, and we give kids going into trade school because he was going to be a Wilder scholarships, and it's available at six different school districts, and we put no limit on how much we could give or how many kids we could give it to because we wanted to, you know, leave it open. And just this last June, we gave $11,000 away. So 11 kids got $1,000 a piece, and we've given over Sarah (19:35.426) Wow. Becky Harling (19:35.702) Mmm. keri (19:40.247) I want to say $50,000, just in scholarships. And it's also opened the opportunity for us to support different suicide prevention, bully prevention programs to go in. We've gone in Greg's memory, and one time we bought out a sports store that was going out of business, and just dumped hundreds of pairs of cleats down into the inner city, and Buffalo to our local community youth programs. And... Becky Harling (19:43.743) Hmm. keri (20:06.623) just different opportunities like that to show love instead of hate, to show kindness and love instead of being mean and bullying and just doing acts, random acts of kindness and saying just love people for who they are and here we want to give back to the community. So through that and that's kind of how we've really sewn in with the Sabers and the Bills and they give a lot of opportunity for us to volunteer. Becky Harling (20:10.987) Hmm. Sarah (20:23.458) Mm. Becky Harling (20:24.555) Hmm keri (20:35.359) and be a part and bring in more funds along with donors in the area. Sarah (20:40.898) Hmm. Becky Harling (20:41.471) I love that so much, Carrie. And, you know, bullying is such a big thing right now. And I mean, we even see it with adults on social media, on Facebook. And, you know, it's not lost on me that we're headed into an election year. And you know, it's just like this bullying thing, you know, has gotten out of hand. And so for moms that are out there listening... talk to them about bullying, how can they help their kids, first of all, not bully somebody else and then how can they help their kids respond when they are bullied? keri (21:23.311) I think one of the things that we treasured is every night we talked to our kids before they went to bed, which I think gave us the awareness for both of them of what was going on in their day. You know, some could say, well, how did you miss it then? Well, if I were to go back, I probably would have had more, I don't know, 17, how do you get more control out of the cell phone? But I think maybe some more blocks on what Becky Harling (21:36.211) Mm-hmm. keri (21:50.907) apps were allowed to be on there and tried to screen a little bit more. But talk to your kids one-on-one is so huge. Find out what's bothering them. And if they start to get quiet, then dig in deeper because that's when they're hiding something that it's a lot worse than what you think. Because I can look back and see these things, but at the time I'm just thinking, Oh, it must be a good week. Must be he's not getting picked on or whatever. Where in essence, Sarah (21:55.531) Hmm. Sarah (22:12.471) Mm. keri (22:20.387) the choir you got, we can look back and say, the bullying had excelled, gotten to the highest point. For those that feel that maybe their kids are bullying others, show them love. If you shower your kids with love, I'm not talking about buying them things. I'm talking about everyday love and kindness. They will begin to act like you treat them. Becky Harling (22:25.911) Mmm. keri (22:46.483) Most of the time when you look into who is bullying and the ones that are bullying, they're looking for attention in a negative way or they're repeating how they're being treated at home. And I'm not saying that to put somebody down that says, oh my gosh, my kid's a bully, you're calling me a bully. No, I'm not saying that. But a lot of times in a home, it's two parents that aren't available or something happens or they're actually being bullied by someone in their home. Becky Harling (22:54.208) Mm-hmm. Sarah (22:56.984) Mm. Sarah (23:14.37) Hmm. Becky Harling (23:14.419) Hmm. keri (23:14.455) So look for signs, see what you can do, but you can never beat love and kindness at home because they will start to repeat that. Even today as an example, my daughter is heading a lot of the scholarships, a lot of ideas come from her, a lot of things we do in the community are a foundation of who she is. Sarah (23:30.702) Mm-hmm. That's so cool. I know there's also the mixture of a school, Carrie, and you can share as much as you're able, but you've been involved with the court case, I understand, with the school system. And can you tell us a little bit about what you're hoping for in that maybe, and then how you've found strength to continue that challenge too? Becky Harling (23:33.991) Hmm. Yeah. keri (23:57.547) Yeah, one of the things that I would highly advise that, you know, back in the beginning when Greg was bullied and, you know, when you have a disability, there's IEPs, there's 501 or 504 plans, I think they're called or whatever, is make sure your child is getting the services that you're entitled to. One of the things that was failed is Greg was not getting all the services he was entitled to. It was a battle every year of even proving he had Tourette's. Becky Harling (24:16.989) Mm-hmm. keri (24:27.631) To our surprise, they didn't consider Tourette's a disability at our school district. They didn't want to provide services. They were always worried about the money it cost. And in essence, I'm telling you right now, your state provides the money for it. If you ever have a disabled child, there's services available. The other thing is prior years, your child could report that so-and-so did whatever to them, and you never knew if it was followed up. Becky Harling (24:40.999) Yeah. keri (24:58.123) especially bullying and that kind of stuff. Even as a parent, I can't tell you how many times I went in and reported what was happening and never got followed up with. And then there was no proof. Now there's no proof. You know, it was, oh yeah, I talked to so and so. Well, now there's what they call DASA, and I think it's in all states. I know it's definitely in New York. And you can file it straight to the state, and then the state contacts the school. If that would have been in place Greg's entire school year. Becky Harling (25:11.535) Bye. Becky Harling (25:24.095) Hmm. keri (25:27.615) it may have been a different result because they would have actually act on the bullying reports that came in. So always keep records, always take notes, and always be the advocate for your child because nobody in that school district is going to be standing up for your child. And that's what I would say. Sarah (25:44.999) Hmm. Wow. Becky Harling (25:48.156) I think that is so wise, Carrie, because I think, and all of that takes intentionality on the parent's part. You know, you have to know the state laws in your state and what's available to your child. But if your child has a learning disability, the school has to provide services to them and they have to make what's called accommodations for their learning plan. things like that. And so it's really, really wise as a parent to do a little research, find out about the availability of these services in your state, and then you really have to be the advocate for your child in the school. And we're not saying that you have to go in there like a bull in a china shop, but you have the right to make sure your child is getting the services that they are entitled to through the state. And I think that's something that your story really brings out, Carrie. And then you and Gino, your husband, you've gone into the school system since this time, right? And you've done some anti-bullying things. Is that correct? Tell us about those. Sarah (26:53.102) Hmm. keri (26:57.163) Yeah, different school districts we've gone in, sometimes we've sent it in. Of course, we're not overly welcome in the school district that our kids went to because we've brought attention to the fact of what's not there because our whole goal is to help other kids to never suffer like our son did. And we will continue that. We're advocating for these kids and these parents that maybe don't have the knowledge that we have. Nothing will ever bring Greg back. Becky Harling (27:17.472) Mm. keri (27:26.783) but we can prevent someone else from suffering the way we did. So, you know, we, that's part of what we use in our phones and what we do and sending programs in. And some kid may realize through one of the programs, wow, maybe that may come across as bullying, where others may say, I need to talk to my parents because something's not just right. Becky Harling (27:45.963) Hmm. I love that. You also, I know at one point you and I had a conversation and during all of this season, you know, where you've been working with the school system and there's been court cases and all of this, you talked about leaning into your girlfriends. And you know, that is something that we've been trying to push here at the Connected Mom podcast because parenting... Sarah (27:47.49) Hmm. Becky Harling (28:12.259) extraordinary circumstances is a rough long road, right? It has ups and downs and we need each other in it. So talk to us about that a little bit. How is that helpful for you? Because I think sometimes when our kids make a choice that we don't agree with, shame can capture us and it makes us pull back. But why is isolating a really bad idea? keri (28:36.367) Honestly, if I isolated, I'd be buried six feet under with my son. I'll be straight out. We wouldn't be here today. There would be nothing good that could have come out of the situation of my son. And to be honest, we have a daughter that deserves to have us here on Earth with her. And so we had to make some wise choices. Sarah (28:42.338) Mm-hmm. Becky Harling (28:42.394) Yeah. Becky Harling (28:57.277) Absolutely. keri (29:04.511) And if nothing else, I mean, not only my husband and I, because only about 3% of marriages last the death of a child, for a daughter who we love very much. And so, you know, we knew we would face some bumps in the roads along with raising issues of what took place or what the school did or did not do. But as things continued out 10 years later, I knew that There were things that you can talk to your husband about, which are great, but there are things that you need your girlfriends for, and you had to be very wise in who you select in that close-knit group that you can call and just say pray. Or you can call and say, I can't believe the false accusations that I just got accused of today. Becky Harling (29:43.264) Mm-hmm. Becky Harling (29:51.7) Mm. keri (29:57.411) Can you just be on your knees for me so that I can stay strong tomorrow? Because I know who I am in Christ. I know the mother I was. I know this, I know that, and I know who Christ made me to be, and I know why he has me here today, and I know that he is the one who asked me to do this. I didn't choose to do this, but God asked me to do it. Those type of situations, you have to be connected with some women that have the same faith as you, are not gossippers, are in the word daily. Becky Harling (29:59.738) Mm-hmm. Becky Harling (30:12.429) Mm-hmm. Becky Harling (30:23.819) Mm-hmm. keri (30:27.763) and truly have your back in all circumstances. And so that's what is honestly has gotten me through this journey, which is still continuing. And I could literally pick up the phone and say, Hey, Becky, you're never gonna believe this. I can give her two sentences and she's on her knees for me. And I don't ever have to question it. I don't have to worry about her saying. Becky Harling (30:41.264) Mmm. Becky Harling (30:46.432) Hmm. Sarah (30:51.458) Hmm. Becky Harling (30:54.195) Absolutely. keri (30:56.215) Well, give me more information so I can call so-and-so and so-and-so and so-and-so. That's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about a sister in Christ who's willing to get on their knees for you until her knees hurt and pray you through whatever journey it is. But it's also someone who trusts you the same way if they're going through it because of your faith and trust in Jesus Christ. Becky Harling (30:59.879) Yeah. Sarah (31:06.263) Hmm. Becky Harling (31:06.309) Mm. Becky Harling (31:09.759) Mm-mm. Becky Harling (31:20.811) Hmm, hmm, that's beautiful. Sarah (31:23.035) That's awesome. Kari, I recently read a book and someone had experienced suicide in their family and they said they felt like people were silent because they didn't know what to say and they thought maybe it'd be better not to say anything, right? And so do you have any, just one or two things for maybe friends, maybe it's your child, but maybe you have a friend that loses a child. What would you say? are some tips you could give us to be a good friend. Becky Harling (31:52.331) Hmm. keri (31:53.047) You know, sometimes silence is better than saying anything if you don't know what to say, because there are awful lot of bad things that you can say. We even had somebody say to us, what did you do wrong that God's punishing you for? You know, so it goes from one way to another. Saying you're sorry for your loss is never a bad thing to say. So, you know, there are fallbacks, but some of the best things that people did for me was just to come over and sit with me. Sarah (31:59.086) Um. Becky Harling (32:06.426) Mmm. Oh my word. Sarah (32:06.78) Oh my gosh. keri (32:22.059) And then if I felt like talking, I felt like talking. Bring a meal and just drop it with no conditions. Things I would say not to do would be, try to gain information, pull the information out. If you don't feel like talking, don't force someone to talk. Don't do things with conditions attached. And there's just not, don't rush the grieving process either. It may be, Sarah (32:22.498) Hmm. Becky Harling (32:22.61) Mmm. Becky Harling (32:28.499) Oh Becky Harling (32:48.193) Mmm, mm-hmm. keri (32:49.551) three months for one and five months for another, and it might be a month for one where somebody can get up and start. So those would just be a couple key tips. But the one thing, the number one thing that I would say that you can do for anyone, friend, relative, person in the church, is you can always pray for a person or a couple who has dealt with suicide. Whether they know it or not, they will feel the prayers. Sarah (32:51.242) Yes. Becky Harling (33:10.654) Hmm. Becky Harling (33:16.235) Hmm. I, you know, I just really love that because we're, we're called to comfort each other in the body of Christ. And part of how we comfort is we just bring ourselves to the other person, you know, and prayer is really powerful. I think sometimes we underestimate that thinking, well, I can only pray, but prayer, you know, you don't know how your prayers might be sustaining that person, right? You don't know how your prayers might be working in the heavenlies to shift whatever's happening around them. And so I think prayer is the greatest key. And then being practical, like you said, Carrie, bringing a meal and, or sitting with them or, you know, I don't know, offering to do their laundry or something, you know, some of the things that maybe are overwhelming after you go through a horrific event like this. Well, Carrie, I could talk to you forever. Um, but you. keri (34:11.163) Thank you. Becky Harling (34:13.487) This has been such a powerful episode. So I thank you, my friend. I thank you for being vulnerable and real with our listeners. I thank you for giving them tangible practical tips. And I want to ask you, would you just pray for our listeners? Cause I'm guessing that as this episode goes out, people are going to share it with other friends whose kids have committed suicide and maybe they are still grappling. It may have happened years and years ago, but they're dealing with guilt and grief and mixed up and maybe really doubting God and all those things. So would you just pray for them? keri (34:53.758) Why did we just come for you? And first we're just thankful for who you are. And we're thankful that heaven is real and Lord is, this world is honestly a crazy place to live in at times. keri (35:10.177) I just thank God that every day, every day I know where my son is. And I just ask right now that if there's anyone that is listening that doesn't know you as their personal savior, that they will lean in and listen to this podcast and that they will seek and search someone who will tell them exactly who you are and accept them. accept you as your personal savior because Lord with you all things are possible and without you I wouldn't even be here today. There would be no hope but with you I have hope to get through anything in life and Lord I just thank you that we can have this podcast and this community to be able to share what you've done in our lives and how you've allowed we do not only be the mother to Greg but the mother to Julianne. And I just pray that this episode and my story of not only being blessed with the two children that you gave me, but being able to overcome the greatest loss in the world, but how you've taken that and still brought joy to my life because I know that I'll see my son again. So Lord, I just ask that if there's anybody hurting out there. that has lost someone to suicide, that they will lean into you, that they will trust you. that they will forgive those that they lost and that they will find their joy. In your precious name, amen. Becky Harling (36:53.191) Amen. Hey, Carrie, if some of our listeners want to give to your scholarship fund, how can they do that? Because we'd love to put that link in the show notes. keri (37:04.171) I will get you that link. We're in with the Cataragos Region Community Foundation and it's the Gregory D Scholarship Fund, but I'll get you the exact link to put in there. Becky Harling (37:11.595) Okay. Becky Harling (37:15.675) Okay, great, great. And if they want to book you for speaking, go to Keri Spring Ministries. keri (37:21.911) gmail.com yep and kerispring.com is the website. Becky Harling (37:23.299) Okay, great. Great, great, great. Yeah. Okay, great. Great, great, great. Well, hey, thanks friend for being here. And all of you that are listening, I hope today's episode encouraged you and I hope that you will share it with your friends because I guarantee that there are other people in your community whose kids, maybe they haven't committed suicide, but maybe they're having suicidal ideation or they're dealing with depression. Maybe you have kids in your community that are dealing with special needs. Figure out how you can come alongside of them so that they know they have people on their side. Thanks for listening today and we hope that you're going to join us again next week where we'll have another conversation to help you connect with God more deeply, more empathically with your friends and more intentionally with your child. Thanks so much. Becky Harling (38:23.323) Okay, I stop.