Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / TWO CHILDREN DEAD IN THEIR BEDS? The Curious Case of 35-year-old Mom, Kimberlee Singler

Transcript

TWO CHILDREN DEAD IN THEIR BEDS? The Curious Case of 35-year-old Mom, Kimberlee Singler · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: Two children dead murdered in their own home.
• 0:20
  Speaker 3: The mother and a third child attacked and rushed to
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: the hospital.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: What happened the.
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: Curious case of the Colorado murders. I'm Nancy Grace. This
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: at Crime Stories and on sirius.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: XM one eleven. What happened? Take a listen to our
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: friend Sydney Summer.
• 0:45
  Speaker 4: Just after midnight, Kimberly Singler, thirty five, calls nine to
• 0:48
  Speaker 4: one one to report a homebreak in. She tells police
• 0:51
  Speaker 4: that two of her children have been murdered. The police
• 0:54
  Speaker 4: response report says officers found an adult female and an
• 0:57
  Speaker 4: eleven year old female who had sustained injuries, as well
• 1:00
  Speaker 4: as a nine year old girl and a seven year
• 1:02
  Speaker 4: old boy who were deceased at the scene. Singler's third child,
• 1:06
  Speaker 4: the eleven year old daughter, was transported to a local
• 1:08
  Speaker 4: hospital for treatment. She is hospitalized. Singler is also treated
• 1:13
  Speaker 4: for injuries. As police investigate the reported burglary. Singler works
• 1:17
  Speaker 4: with officers giving statements about what happened.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: This is what we know right now to dad.
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: The third child and the mother rushed to the hospital
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: Heather Scold is joining us out of Colorado Springs. KRT
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: DO thirteen anchor and reporter, Heather, thank you so much
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: for being with us. Tell me what happened when that
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: nine to one one call was Meg.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: You're telling me the mother call nine one one.
• 1:41
  Speaker 5: That is right on December nineteenth, at twelve twenty nine am,
• 1:46
  Speaker 5: a nine one one le came in as a burglary.
• 1:49
  Speaker 5: This is to where Singler lived with her three children.
• 1:52
  Speaker 5: This is this fifty three hundred block of Palomino Ranch
• 1:55
  Speaker 5: Point Condos that's on the east side of Colorado Springs.
• 1:58
  Speaker 5: I wouldn't say it's a wealthy side of town that
• 2:02
  Speaker 5: these condos in particular, I would say are very nice
• 2:06
  Speaker 5: for that region. Once officers got there, they discovered that
• 2:11
  Speaker 5: a nine year old girl and a seven year old
• 2:14
  Speaker 5: boy were dead, and eleven year old girl was also injured,
• 2:18
  Speaker 5: and thirty five year old Kimberly Singler was also injured.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: Describe for me, Heather, if you know.
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: Joining me is Heather Skull from k RD there in
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: Colorado Springs. Heather described from me, I looked very carefully
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: at the condo.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: Development. They look really nice.
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: There are two stories, so there is a downstairs entry,
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: and many of them have balconies on the second floor,
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: and they have little porches, and some of them have
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: sliding glass doors on the first door.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: So do we know yet the point of entry?
• 2:56
  Speaker 5: Yes, no, the point of entry remains a question. That
• 3:00
  Speaker 5: initial burglary call that we just spoke about came in
• 3:04
  Speaker 5: the early morning hours of December nineteenth. Officers are writing
• 3:08
  Speaker 5: there to find two dead children, a eleven year old
• 3:14
  Speaker 5: female one of the daughters was also injured, and three
• 3:18
  Speaker 5: five year old Kimberly Singler was also hurt.
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: So this is my first question out to Eric Fattus
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: joining me, high profile lawyer in the Colorado jurisdiction. You
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: can find him at varnerfattust dot com. Eric, thank you
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: for being with us. The first thing you do is
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: look for of course, once you attend to the bodies,
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: you try to find how the person got in. Would
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: you agree or disagree?
• 3:45
  Speaker 6: It's exactly right, Nancy. That is the hallmark of the
• 3:48
  Speaker 6: crime of burglary in most circumstances, so I'm sure police
• 3:51
  Speaker 6: that was one of the first things on their agenda.
• 3:54
  Speaker 6: After attending to the victims, Like you mentioned.
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: Now, police began to investigate do we know, Heather, whether
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: the children are found upstairs or downstairs? And again, as
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: you pointed out correctly twelve twenty nine Am, I'm assuming
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: that all three children were attacked in their beds.
• 4:11
  Speaker 5: We don't know the details of what happened inside that
• 4:15
  Speaker 5: condo unit at all.
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: Also to Heather Skull joining USKR do thirteen have we
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: been given a cause of death of the children?
• 4:23
  Speaker 5: Actually, Nancy, we don't have details as to what happened
• 4:27
  Speaker 5: that night.
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: So right now the police are playing it very close
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: to the vest I want to go to doctor Angela
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: Arnold joining me renowned psychiatrists out of the Atlanta jurisdiction.
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: You can find her at angela Arnold MD dot com
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: doctor Angie.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: When children are killed.
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: Very often, and of course there are exceptions to every rule,
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: very often you don't see the child disfigured, such as
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: in a stabbing or a shooting, has it happened, yes
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: it has?
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: Is it typical?
• 5:01
  Speaker 7: No?
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: It is not. And the mode of death is very
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: indicative and tells me a lot about who the killer is.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: For instance, we.
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: Know although she was acquitted, that top mom Casey Anthony
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: killed her daughter Kelly. To your old Kelly. How not sure,
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: but we know that Kelly was disposed of in a
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: swampy area about ten houses away from the Anthony home
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: with her favorite blank kicks.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: Now, what cold hearted killer.
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: Is going to go kill a child in a home
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: and then take the time to dispose of the body
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: with the child in the favorite blanket. Obviously the mother
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: someone that knows the favorite blanket, right.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: So my point is that rarely do.
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: We see the child the body disfigured as is with
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: stabbing or or bludgeoning. When children are killed, normally they
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: are killed in a quote soft kill. If there is
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: any such thing, through asphyxiation putting.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: A pillow over the child's head.
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: We saw that in the Shenan Watts case. Both of
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: the girls were asphyxiated. We see it with many other
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: cases in the top Mom Casey Anthony case. I believe
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: Keelly was asphyxiated via duct tape and had very possibly
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: been given some kind of like a cough syrup or
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: ben a drill, or some homemade medicine or some homemade
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: substance that would have not her out.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: Do you agree or disagree with that?
• 6:51
  Speaker 8: I agree with it, Nancy, And it's such It is
• 6:54
  Speaker 8: such a good point, and what it points out to
• 6:56
  Speaker 8: me is that this is not an act of hatred
• 7:01
  Speaker 8: towards the children. Something else is being accomplished here, but
• 7:07
  Speaker 8: it's not an act of they want to get these
• 7:10
  Speaker 8: people want to get rid of the child, but it
• 7:12
  Speaker 8: is not a direct act of anger or hatred or
• 7:16
  Speaker 8: rage towards the actual child.
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: Interesting, Okay, not rage towards the child. Of course, I'm
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: just a JD. You're the MD, but I completely disagree
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: with that. I think that the rage of for instance,
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: in top mom's case, over not being able to have
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: a single life, not be able to be free and wild, right,
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: that was her anger, and what kept her from that
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: was the child.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: So that anger was directed at the child.
• 7:45
  Speaker 8: Well, I think the anger, Nancy. All I'm trying to
• 7:48
  Speaker 8: say is there's anger there, but I know it's very strange. Okay,
• 7:52
  Speaker 8: but they still might actually love the child, but the
• 7:56
  Speaker 8: child is a representation of something is in the way,
• 7:59
  Speaker 8: of something that they can't have, so they feel like, okay,
• 8:02
  Speaker 8: I'm going to dispose of the child.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: Did you just say they love the child?
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: They could Okay, let's just cut her mic for a
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: few moments. Jackie plays Jackie over here, cut her mic
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: and give her a few moments to think about what
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: she has said. Heather Skold, two children did a third attack.
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: The mom attacked their rush to the hospital. But there
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: is a lot more leading up to this. So far,
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: we don't know the point of entry. We don't know
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: the coeod cause of death, although I would hazard to
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: guess it is a soft killing. Doctor Airy Eason joining
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: us out of the Florida Jurisdiction Pathologist consultant, Doctor Eson, thank.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: You for being with us in your experience.
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: Outside of accident or natural causes. When you're looking at
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: a homicide in your experience and you've done thousands of autopsies,
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: what would you say the leading cod on a child?
• 9:03
  Speaker 9: In my experience, I've had all different kinds of them.
• 9:06
  Speaker 9: I've had a couple of gunshot wounds. I've had some
• 9:09
  Speaker 9: stab wound cases. I had a mother in South Carolina
• 9:13
  Speaker 9: actually take an axe two or two children.
• 9:17
  Speaker 5: I've had.
• 9:20
  Speaker 9: Blunt porstrauma cases as well. The asphyxia ones are very
• 9:24
  Speaker 9: tough to prove because autopsy findings on a child who
• 9:28
  Speaker 9: is smothered there aren't any very often, and so a
• 9:32
  Speaker 9: lot of those cases are probably going to end up
• 9:34
  Speaker 9: this undetermined.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: Wait, you wouldn't be able to find.
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: Hamorrhy's particia in the eye, or if there was a
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: ligature manual strangulation, you couldn't find, for instance, a breaking
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: or damage to the hyoid bone, or fingerprints or some
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: other discoloration around the neck well for a strangulation.
• 9:56
  Speaker 9: Sure like with the manual frangulation or ligerature strangular those
• 10:00
  Speaker 9: oftentimes do leave marks on the neck and you can
• 10:02
  Speaker 9: see the TATIQII. But I was talking more like the
• 10:05
  Speaker 9: like a plastic bag over the head something like that,
• 10:07
  Speaker 9: or just a smothering with a pillow. That's not going
• 10:10
  Speaker 9: to leave much of any kind of a mark, any
• 10:13
  Speaker 9: or any kind of internal autopsis. Finding about all truths
• 10:16
  Speaker 9: that it's a smothering.
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: Okay, what about the veins, the tiny tiny blood vessels
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: right in the nasal area and the eyes, as we're
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: saying particular, even with asphyxiation, with those bursts or hemorrhage.
• 10:29
  Speaker 9: Not necessarily, especially with the smothering. Those are going to
• 10:32
  Speaker 9: burst mainly when you have severe pressure on the neck.
• 10:36
  Speaker 9: And with the smothering like with a pillow or a
• 10:38
  Speaker 9: plastid bag, there's really no pressure on the neck at
• 10:40
  Speaker 9: all that would cause that.
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: That's a really good point, doctor Eric Ason. So another
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: thing we can try.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: To deduce is that we know the mother and the.
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: Child, the eleven year old girl, were rushed to the
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: hospital where they stayed in the hospital, they were treated.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: So how likely would it be?
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: Eric Fattus, former felony prosecutor and now criminal defense and
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: civil lawyer, Eric Fattus, I know for us that serial
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: killers can change their moo, look at Ted Bundy. But
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: if you're going in and you're killing everybody in the house,
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: how likely is it that you would stab.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: One, want to strangle one.
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: We know that the mother and the daughter, the eleven
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: year old daughter, are alive, but we're injured.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: So wouldn't you be able to deduce, Eric Fattus, that
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: the same was used on them as the two dead children.
• 11:37
  Speaker 6: Yes, no, exactly. You would expect the killer to use
• 11:42
  Speaker 6: either the same weapon or the same you know, violent
• 11:45
  Speaker 6: approach to each potential victim. And that's why there's kind
• 11:50
  Speaker 6: of a mystery here because at least one of these victims,
• 11:52
  Speaker 6: the eleven year old child, is still.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: A lot and the mother, so how long.
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: But we know Eric fattus and so far, I be
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: with everything you just said, But we also know that
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: they were kept in the hospital for a period of days.
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: So if they had been asphyxiated to any degree, why
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: do they have to stay overnight?
• 12:11
  Speaker 10: That would be really unusual.
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: They don't have any broken bones, right, so that rules
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: out asphyxiation. Along this line of thinking, what do you think, Eric, I'm.
• 12:21
  Speaker 6: With you on that, Nancy. You know we need to
• 12:23
  Speaker 6: look at once it's disclosed, the injuries from the two
• 12:27
  Speaker 6: deceased children and compare those with injuries to the eleven
• 12:31
  Speaker 6: year old child who live.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: And the mother.
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: And Guys, we're throwing this around the way that we
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: are because this is all of our business. And I
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: want to remind everybody that Aiden Wentz was just seven
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: years old when he was murdered.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: And you know what popped up on my phone?
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: I have take literally thousands and thousands and thousands of
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: pictures of the twins, my children on the phone, and
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: every day little video montage pops up.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: Should we let doctor Angie out of time out?
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: Okay, doctor Angie, that's one of my favorite things.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: And I don't really even know how they're generated. Oh
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: I know, every day. I love those and they put
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: them to music.
• 13:18
  Speaker 8: When they give you a memory.
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: Yes, and there's like a video montage and one popped
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: up today of the twins when they were seven, and
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: they look so tiny, and they were so tiny.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: My son's six foot five now, my daughter's five to three.
• 13:33
  Speaker 8: Nancy, how did you have a six foot five child?
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: That?
• 13:35
  Speaker 8: I wonder that every day.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: Of my life.
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: My dad was six three and my husband's sixty four,
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: dear Lord. And the rest is all to whole milk,
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: organic and broccoli. In fact, I make broccoli so often
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: they have a pet name for it, brogel at Aiden
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: Wentz seven years old. When that little boy was murdered,
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: Ellie Ellianna Wentz nine, I just gave myself chill bumps
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: because I love the twins so much. In thinking about
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: someone coming in and killing a nine year old girl
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: and a seven year old boy in their beds, we
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: think before Christmas of all days.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: I'm still trying to get my head wrapped around that.
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: But back, let's let let's go back to doing something
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: to help pushed his face this case forward?
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: What do we know about leading up to that night?
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: Twelve twenty nine, eight m take a listen to our
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: friend Dave Mack.
• 14:46
  Speaker 11: As police investigate the deaths of Singler's two young children,
• 14:49
  Speaker 11: they uncovered an ongoing legal battle between the mom and
• 14:52
  Speaker 11: he rex husband, Kevin Wentz. The couple fought over parenting styles, visitation, custody,
• 14:58
  Speaker 11: and more. Whence's attorney says the contingentus divorce and custody
• 15:01
  Speaker 11: dispute has been going on for over five years. Just
• 15:05
  Speaker 11: three months ago, Kimberly Singler filed a request for a
• 15:08
  Speaker 11: temporary protection order in El Paso County. She claims Kevin
• 15:11
  Speaker 11: Wentz waved a knife at her. Wins denies the allegations.
• 15:15
  Speaker 11: Two months later, in a different jurisdiction, a Larimer County
• 15:18
  Speaker 11: court held a hearing on Singlar's emergency motion to restrict
• 15:21
  Speaker 11: parenting time over the same allegations about the knife. The
• 15:25
  Speaker 11: court rescinded the order, finding there was no imminent threat
• 15:28
  Speaker 11: from Wins.
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: Trying to make sense of what I just heard. Joining
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: me is Heather Scold k RD thirteen anchor and reporter
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: in Colorado Springs, including this area. Heather, that was a mouthful,
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: But what I take away and regular people taught is
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: that the mother Kimberly Singler filed an action against her
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: ex after a long running custody battle. And the way
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: I can make it out is the divorced slash custody
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: battle started when Aiden was two years old, but she
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: claimed he the husband, waved a knife at her, and
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: then she went on in another jurisdiction, Larimer County, to
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: get an order giving her soul guardianship over the children
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: based on the same alleged incident, and that judge said
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: there was no threat from the husband and did not
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: grant her request.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: Did I state that accurately? So?
• 16:38
  Speaker 5: Yes, it would appear as though the couple was at
• 16:42
  Speaker 5: least had relations in Larimer County, which is on the
• 16:47
  Speaker 5: northern part of Colorado, about three hours away here from
• 16:50
  Speaker 5: Colorado Springs.
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: Okay, when you say they had relations, are you talking
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: about sex relations or contacts that.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: Would allow jurisdiction?
• 16:57
  Speaker 5: Co'ntacting?
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: Right? Okay, go ahead.
• 16:59
  Speaker 6: Correct.
• 17:00
  Speaker 5: They filed for divorce in twenty eighteen and it was
• 17:05
  Speaker 5: finalized in twenty twenty, but it went through a four
• 17:08
  Speaker 5: year long custody battle over these three young children. And
• 17:12
  Speaker 5: you're right in that there were multiple allegations and accusations
• 17:17
  Speaker 5: from Singler to WinCE, the ex husband, Kevin Wentz, and
• 17:22
  Speaker 5: most recently, and you reference this September nine, eighteenth rather
• 17:27
  Speaker 5: twenty twenty three. That's when WinCE had arrived to Singler's
• 17:31
  Speaker 5: apartment home those condos here in Colorado Springs to get
• 17:35
  Speaker 5: the kids per that child custody agreement. And that's when
• 17:40
  Speaker 5: Singler accused her ex husband of calling her disparaging names,
• 17:44
  Speaker 5: pulling a knife out on her. And when Colorado's Friends
• 17:47
  Speaker 5: police arrived to investigate these allegations, Winz denied ever pulling
• 17:53
  Speaker 5: a knife out on his ex wife.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: Well, did they find a knife that?
• 17:56
  Speaker 5: I'm not sure.
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: I'm very curious you know about that Ali mitigation number
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: one since we don't know the cod was it death
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: by knife?
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: So what do we know about that?
• 18:10
  Speaker 7: We're not sure yet.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: Time Stories with Nancy Grace Eric.
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: Fattus, high profile lawyer joining us out of this jurisdiction.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: Eric Fattus, one of my.
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: Very best friends, is a defense attorney, and she's told
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: me multiple times that she'd rather try defend a killer
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: than get in the middle of a custody and divorce case.
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: And having known her for some time, there have been
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: times she didn't.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: Even want to walk to her car in the parking.
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: Deck because as the opposing respondent was so angry over
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: the divorce, afraid to take a shot at her. So
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: when I hear a five year long custody battle that
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: sounds vicious, all these claims about waving a knife the
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: request denied. Do you agree or disagree? These are highly
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: emotional cases.
• 19:23
  Speaker 10: Oh, I've got to agree with you, Nancy.
• 19:25
  Speaker 6: And you know these things, these custody cases can just
• 19:28
  Speaker 6: be a nightmare, and a nightmare that doesn't end quickly
• 19:31
  Speaker 6: at least that this has been going on for five
• 19:33
  Speaker 6: years now, and it really can do. It's so emotionally charged,
• 19:37
  Speaker 6: and it escalates over time in some cases, and it
• 19:40
  Speaker 6: appears here it may have come to kind of a
• 19:42
  Speaker 6: crescendo that led to this horrendous incident that we're discussing today.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: And Eric Fatas, I get it.
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: I mean I get angry when my husband wants to
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: pick the children up and pick up at the end
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: of the day at school.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: I want to pick them up, much less take them away.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: And I only get them fifty percent of the time.
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: That's not happening. But what do we know about this case?
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: Take a listen to Sydney Sumner.
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: The court ordered that the children have additional time with
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: their father, Kevin Wentz, around Thanksgiving and again December sixteenth
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: through December thirty first. The court also ordered Singler to
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: pay fees for Wentz's attorneys and that Wentz be awarded
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: additional time with the children, which was lost due to
• 20:21
  Speaker 4: Singler's allegations. It was arranged for the child exchanges to
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: take place at a police station in Colorado Springs and
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: the Greeley police station. When Singler failed to show up
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: with the children, Wentz's attorney filed an emergency motion to
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: law enforcement for assistance to enforce parenting time. The court
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: granted the motion on December eighteenth, with the status conference
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: scheduled for the twentieth. Singler was ordered to bring the
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: children to court that day.
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: Okay, wait a minute, December eighteen, isn't that Heather scold
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: the day before they're found murdered?
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: Correct?
• 20:54
  Speaker 5: In fact, that emergency motion, which was granted the eighteenth
• 20:59
  Speaker 5: of December, demanded that she bring the children to Larimer
• 21:04
  Speaker 5: County Court on December twentieth. And remember this goes back
• 21:09
  Speaker 5: to December sixteenth, when she was supposed to drop the
• 21:15
  Speaker 5: kids off at the Stetten Hills Police substation, and she
• 21:19
  Speaker 5: was nowhere to be found. She was not there to
• 21:21
  Speaker 5: exchange the children with Wynn.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: Well, you're right.
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: Take a listen to Rachel Bunia from crime Online.
• 21:29
  Speaker 12: Kimberly Singler was days away from losing custody of her
• 21:32
  Speaker 12: children after failing to follow a court order to drop
• 21:35
  Speaker 12: the children off to her ex husband at the Colorado
• 21:38
  Speaker 12: Springs Police department at Stetson Hills substation. The next day,
• 21:43
  Speaker 12: Kevin Wentz's attorney asked a Lara mur County judge to
• 21:46
  Speaker 12: grant him sole possession of his children since Singler violated
• 21:50
  Speaker 12: their child custody agreement. Singler was contacted by the police
• 21:54
  Speaker 12: but said she was nowhere near the station, That's why
• 21:57
  Speaker 12: she didn't drop them off. She also sent an email
• 22:00
  Speaker 12: stating she was in Colorado with her three children. Whens
• 22:04
  Speaker 12: was then granted full time custody of the children.
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: So the hearing was about him getting full custody because
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: she failed to drop the children off at a neutral location.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: Is that right, Heather Scold?
• 22:16
  Speaker 5: That is correct, and in fact, she told Colorado Springs
• 22:20
  Speaker 5: police that on December sixteenth, where she'd failed to drop
• 22:24
  Speaker 5: those kids off at the police sub station. She then
• 22:27
  Speaker 5: responded by saying, I am nowhere near the police station.
• 22:31
  Speaker 5: According to court documents, that's when WinCE's attorney reached out
• 22:35
  Speaker 5: to Miss Singler, asking where where are you. She informed
• 22:40
  Speaker 5: them by email that she was in Breckenridge.
• 22:43
  Speaker 6: That's about two and a half hours away from here.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: Now, how close is her condo from that police station.
• 22:48
  Speaker 5: I would say, Nancy, that is about a two minute
• 22:51
  Speaker 5: drive away.
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: Okay, so this is all going down around December eighteen.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: On December nineteen twelve.
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: To twenty nine am, within the same twenty four hour period,
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: the children are found dead in their beds, we believe
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: in their beds. At twelve twenty nine am. That nine
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: one one call is made. Two children dead, ages seven
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: and nine. One eleven year old harmed goes in the hospital.
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: Mommy harmed goes in the hospital. Mommy is released, but
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: then she goes a wall. It turns out she is
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: four thousand miles away from their Colorado home in Kensington.
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: I don't mean Kensington, New England. I mean Kensington as
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: in London, as in the Duke and Duchess of Kensington.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: That Kensington, joining me right now, special guest.
• 23:56
  Speaker 7: RV.
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: Brandt, Senior Inspector, US Marshall Service, International Investigations Branch, Chief
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: Inspector at DJ's Office of International Affairs.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: Author of solo Shotcurse.
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: Of the Bluestone on Amazon and Flying Solo Top of
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: the World also on Amazon, inspired by all of his
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: trekking down people all around the world.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: For the US government. IRV Brandt. I mean, her children
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: are dead in the home.
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: She's in the home at the time they're murdered. She
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: gets taken to the hospital with minor injuries and released.
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: How the hey does this woman leave the country and
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: travel four thousand miles away to Kensington?
• 24:47
  Speaker 10: Oh, Nancy, unfortunately easily is how she did it. I'm
• 24:52
  Speaker 10: sure she just went to the airport and she has
• 24:55
  Speaker 10: a valid passport, probably Denver, and got on a flight
• 25:00
  Speaker 10: to the UK.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: I don't know why.
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: It doesn't make sense to me, doctor Angela Arnold, with
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: two dead children and one child just out of the hospital,
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: you high tail it to the UK.
• 25:11
  Speaker 8: Because Nancy, she knew she was in some trouble.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: She was in some trouble.
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: I agree with that, and I'll tell you why agree
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: with that? Not because she is the only adult in
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: the home, that she has minor injuries.
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: And they're dead.
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: But because of this, take a listen to our cut
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: two from rachel Bania.
• 25:31
  Speaker 12: Police determine the burglary report is unfounded and present evidence
• 25:35
  Speaker 12: to obtain a warrant for Singler's arrest, but the mom
• 25:38
  Speaker 12: is nowhere to be found since she was not a suspect,
• 25:41
  Speaker 12: Singler was not under surveillance, and by the time she
• 25:44
  Speaker 12: needed to be, she was gone. Kimberly Singler was last
• 25:48
  Speaker 12: seen December twenty third in Colorado.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: Two days before Christmas.
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: Okay, that's what we were talking about. Eric Fattis, you're
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: the high profile lawyer joining us OUTE of Colorado this jurisdiction.
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: That's why the entry point should have been determined.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: At the very beginning. But of course they're dealing with
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: two dead children's bodies. So I mean.
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: You can tell if a glass has been broken from
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: the outside or the inside, depending on where you find
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: the glass.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: You can tell if a screen door is.
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: Cut from the outside or the inside, depending on which
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: way the screen wiring is now pointed based on the slashing.
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: You can tell if a door has been jimmied. You
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: can tell if there's no forced entry. I'm betting you.
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: I'm betting you there is no forced entry.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: Eric fattys right.
• 26:43
  Speaker 6: And you know, of course, to the police's credit that
• 26:45
  Speaker 6: they came upon this scene. I'm sure it's chaotic at tactic.
• 26:48
  Speaker 6: There are two dead children here, so there's a lot
• 26:51
  Speaker 6: going on. But like I said, one of the first
• 26:53
  Speaker 6: points of focus for law enforcement should be determining whether
• 26:57
  Speaker 6: there was a breaking and entering in that residue or
• 27:00
  Speaker 6: if there's a parent evidence of that, trying to determine
• 27:03
  Speaker 6: whether it was stained or set up by someone or not.
• 27:07
  Speaker 6: Maybe it is a legitimate breaking an entry in a burglary,
• 27:10
  Speaker 6: but those are really sort of the starting points to
• 27:12
  Speaker 6: this kind of investigation. And so I'm curious to see
• 27:16
  Speaker 6: exactly how that played out.
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: And you got to think about this woman because Eric Fattus,
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: and I want everybody on the panel to jump in
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: on this if you have a thought, Eric Fattus, she
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: has already gone in front of one judge two judges
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: actually to claim her husband waved a knife at her
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: and wanted to get sole parenting.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: Based on that, both judges ruled it out.
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: Police determined there had not been a knife attack or
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: a knife threatening. So we know that was pulled off.
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: So I can imagine the drama and the acting that
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: went down when police got there to find the two
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: dead children's bodies. Police did not believe she was a
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: suspect at that time. Into their credit. Now like you
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: know what, something's not right and they go back and
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: they do determine there was no burglary. Nothing about the
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: evidence suggested a burglary occur, and we wouldn't know that
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: if police had not gone back and done their job right.
• 28:17
  Speaker 6: Thank Kevin's they did. But upon learning that, you know,
• 28:20
  Speaker 6: they've got to realize there is there is a mother
• 28:23
  Speaker 6: who is now.
• 28:24
  Speaker 10: Probably a suspect, but two dead children.
• 28:26
  Speaker 6: We better keep an eye on her, We better make
• 28:28
  Speaker 6: sure that we know of her whereabouts and at the
• 28:31
  Speaker 6: very least you better not make we better not allow
• 28:33
  Speaker 6: her to apply all the way to the UK and
• 28:35
  Speaker 6: a scone.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: Well she did it. Take a listen to our cut seven.
• 28:38
  Speaker 12: Details as to how police tracked Kimberly Singler to the
• 28:42
  Speaker 12: UK or the arrests itself have not been released, but
• 28:45
  Speaker 12: we do know she was picked up in Kensington, London,
• 28:48
  Speaker 12: four thousand miles away from the Colorado Home.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: Time Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: Joining me is a renowned expert or brand Senior inspector
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: US Marshall Service and author or of how did they
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: track her?
• 29:14
  Speaker 10: Well? From years of experience, I would say it's most
• 29:18
  Speaker 10: likely that investigators got information from a family member or friend.
• 29:26
  Speaker 10: It would be easy enough to verify through text the
• 29:30
  Speaker 10: Treasury re Enforcement Communication System that person using the US
• 29:36
  Speaker 10: passport left the country and you could track where they
• 29:40
  Speaker 10: went to. And it's also likely that they also had
• 29:46
  Speaker 10: information of where she was Kensington, London. It's a big
• 29:51
  Speaker 10: place and Kensington is in central London.
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: Would she have been so stupid to use her credit
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: cards in ATMs?
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: Yes, she would have. Heather's goold. Wasn't she found in
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: a hotel in Kensington?
• 30:04
  Speaker 5: That is correct, in a hotel on the west side
• 30:06
  Speaker 5: of London? Apprehended by Britain's version of the FBI, the
• 30:11
  Speaker 5: National Crime Agency?
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: Is that true or BRANT? Is that the FBI equivalent
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: in London?
• 30:16
  Speaker 10: It is and it's made up by officers from multiple jurisdictions.
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: We also know that London is covered in CCTV. They
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: take it very very seriously. There are not long stretches
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: where you don't have security cam. Also, as we saw
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: in the Kaitlin Armstrong case which you covered with me
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: and investigated Brandt, Kaylin Armstrong was seen at the airport
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: using her sister's passport to get away from a murder charge,
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: which leads me to the theory of fly. Eric fattis,
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: you're the former prosecutor turned defense attorney. How you get
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: explained to a jury what she just went sightseeing in London?
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: She just wanted to tour through Buckingham Palace.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: That's not going to work.
• 31:05
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm filing a motion to withdraw if I'm representing her,
• 31:07
  Speaker 6: because you're not going to be able to sell that
• 31:09
  Speaker 6: to anybody. The idea when someone flees is that there
• 31:13
  Speaker 6: is a consciousness of guilt. They know they did something wrong.
• 31:16
  Speaker 6: And even the judge in the UK said somebody that
• 31:19
  Speaker 6: effect when he said that Kimberly Singler knew exactly what
• 31:23
  Speaker 6: was going to happen, and now she is in these
• 31:26
  Speaker 6: extradition proceedings to come back to Colorado. Although I think
• 31:29
  Speaker 6: those are going to be.
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: Like, well, you're right, take a listen to Rachel Beni
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: a crime online.
• 31:34
  Speaker 12: She spent fourteen days on the run Singler appeared in
• 31:37
  Speaker 12: a London court New Year's Day to face extradition proceedings.
• 31:41
  Speaker 12: In her appearance at the Westminster Magistrates Court, Singler told
• 31:45
  Speaker 12: the court she did not consent to being taken back
• 31:48
  Speaker 12: to the US. Reportedly, she had been staying in a hotel.
• 31:52
  Speaker 12: Singler will remain in custody in London until a second
• 31:55
  Speaker 12: hearing January twenty ninth. We're in a formal request for
• 31:58
  Speaker 12: her extradition to the United States will be filed.
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: You know, I'd like to think that she was so
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: distraught she didn't realize what she was doing, but that's
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: not true. She had to use her passport to fly
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: to London, Heathrow or wherever she flew. She didn't row
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: over there in a canoe. She had to use a passport,
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: She had to book a fly, she had to find
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: a hotel, so she had her wits about her. Also,
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: or Brant, if you could explain how a transcontinental extradition
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: would occur.
• 32:32
  Speaker 10: Sure, She's was arrested on what we'd call provisional arrest
• 32:38
  Speaker 10: warrant pending extradition to the United States. Her initial plea
• 32:46
  Speaker 10: is that she is going to fight extradition. The extradition
• 32:52
  Speaker 10: process from the UK can be very lengthy, a lot
• 32:56
  Speaker 10: of hearings in a multitude of appeals, and so if
• 33:02
  Speaker 10: she fights it to the very end throughout the appeal process,
• 33:08
  Speaker 10: it could take up to years to get her back. Normally,
• 33:13
  Speaker 10: I've handled many many extraditions from the UK. Normally, at
• 33:19
  Speaker 10: some point people in custody and they're not if they're
• 33:23
  Speaker 10: not released, realized that they are eventually going to have
• 33:30
  Speaker 10: to face the charges, and they consent to the extradition
• 33:33
  Speaker 10: and they come back because there's one big factor that
• 33:37
  Speaker 10: attorneys will point out to them is while they're in
• 33:40
  Speaker 10: custody in the United Kingdom fighting extradition back to the
• 33:45
  Speaker 10: United States, they're not getting credit for the time that
• 33:49
  Speaker 10: they're being served. It's not like if you were in
• 33:52
  Speaker 10: a in the United States, once you go to trial,
• 33:55
  Speaker 10: you get credit for all the time that you're in custody.
• 33:59
  Speaker 10: When you're outside of the country fighting extradition, you're not
• 34:02
  Speaker 10: getting any credit for the time. So a lot of times,
• 34:08
  Speaker 10: at some point people will say, okay, fine, I'll come
• 34:12
  Speaker 10: back and I'll bring up a case. He might be
• 34:15
  Speaker 10: familiar with it. Nancy, do you remember neil En Whistle
• 34:19
  Speaker 10: that killed his wife in Boston. Oh, Yes, and fled to.
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: The Whistle, killed wife and daughter Lily, and ran home
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: to mommy and daddy.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: In the UK.
• 34:29
  Speaker 10: I did the extradition. I chartered the jet and flew
• 34:32
  Speaker 10: to menden Hall Air Force Base outside of London and
• 34:36
  Speaker 10: brought nil En Whistle back to the United States. Yes,
• 34:41
  Speaker 10: and that was exactly what happened. He initially was going
• 34:45
  Speaker 10: to fight extradition but realized he wasn't going to be released.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: You're right, or Brandt as usual.
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: But what's striking me is that she is choosing to
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: miss her children's funeral, which is in a couple of
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: hours from right now, which leads me to a psychological
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: question to doctor Angie, and b to a medical question
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: to doctor Eric Aeson, a forensic pathologist joining us doctor Esen.
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: The funeral is happening for these two children, the funerals
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: for a seven year old and a nine year old.
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: Their little caskets are about to be buried.
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: So wouldn't it doesn't that suggest to you that there
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: is a formal cause of death.
• 35:34
  Speaker 9: Possibly the autopsies have been done, of course, and so
• 35:38
  Speaker 9: the pathologist what the cause of death may be? My
• 35:42
  Speaker 9: theory as to why we don't have a sertificatet prepared
• 35:46
  Speaker 9: is they are probably awaiting toxicology results on this case.
• 35:50
  Speaker 9: So maybe an element of like a poisoning combined with
• 35:54
  Speaker 9: strangulation or smothering or something like that, and so they
• 35:57
  Speaker 9: need the result of that, Like did some give them
• 36:00
  Speaker 9: been a drill or Mike will or any breeze perhaps
• 36:04
  Speaker 9: to try to timp the poison them and then ended
• 36:07
  Speaker 9: up inflicting one trauma or strangulation, And so they're probably
• 36:11
  Speaker 9: waiting on that.
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, when you say toxicology, I'd be curious that they
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: were administered something as in I think what happened with
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: Caylee Anthony given some type of homemade chloroform or ben
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: a drill or some sleeping agent before a duct tape
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: was put across her mouth and possibly knows which led
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: to her death in the trunk of that car. I
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: see where you're going, doctor, and I agree with you,
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: Doctor Ason yet again, although you got me on the
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: PARTICII hemorrhages and I really resent that. I hope we
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: live to fight another day.
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: Doctor Angie Arnold.
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: Missing the funeral, I mean, one of the worst moments
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: in my life was when I went to my fiance's funeral,
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: which shortly before our wedding turned into a funeral. But
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: I would never have never the thought never occurred to
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: me not to be there.
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: But this mom isn't there.
• 37:09
  Speaker 8: Well, Nancy, she's already had closure with those children and
• 37:13
  Speaker 8: a funeral. A funeral, as they all say, is for
• 37:16
  Speaker 8: the living, and it helps people have closure after someone
• 37:19
  Speaker 8: is dead. Nancy, I believe that she's moved on from
• 37:24
  Speaker 8: that and she knows what happened. She in her heart
• 37:31
  Speaker 8: knows what happened, and she doesn't need to go to
• 37:33
  Speaker 8: the funeral to find closure with those children.
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: As of now, as the rest of the family heads
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: to the children's funeral, we wait.
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: We're justice too, and fat goodbye son.