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SoWhoCaresAnyway E3 Being a respectful disruptor · SoWhoCaresAnyway

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Hello and welcome to So Who Cares Anyway, the podcast that shares learning, innovation and ideas from the world of health and social care and beyond.
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My name is Ruth Germain and I'm inviting you to join me each week with my inspirational guests to hear about who cares.
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What they do, their passions, their knowledge and ideas, and importantly, the difference they are making to improve the health and wellbeing of people in our communities.
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I consider each of my guests to be incredible individuals working with people in new ways or with key messages to share.
People from health care, social care, the voluntary sector, community groups and more.
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So join me each week to find out.
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So who cares anyway, to find out more about me, who I am and what I do, please head over to my website, www.
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reflectiveruthconsultancy.
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com.
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com where you can also catch up with previous episodes and read my blogs.
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Hello and welcome to our next episode of so who cares anyway, today, I'm really excited to introduce you to, my colleague Farrah, who was a Darzi fellow the year after myself, who's currently a junior product specialist at cloud 21.
I've invited Farrah today because I was so inspired by Farrah's project that she'd done as a Darzee Fellow, which was working with Kent County Council, where she collected an incredible amount of data from people living across Kent and Medway to really understand what their issues and concerns were.
But I'm not going to explain that too much further.
What I'm going to do now is pass you over to Farrah and ask if you wouldn't mind introducing yourself and give us Your background please.
Oh, thank you so much.
That's such a lovely, warm welcome.
Rhys, I'm really excited to be on your, podcast, and really excited to see how this conversation goes.
Thank you.
So I'm Farah.
I am a clinician by background.
I'm an orthoptist.
So that's a specialty in ophthalmology.
I've been doing that for about 10 years in the NHS.
I have a I have a number of other varied roles right now, one being a junior product specialist in a health tech consultancy company that's known as Cloud21.
I'm also a guest lecturer, a clinical tutor.
I also dabble a little bit in the TEDx NHS world, which I'll go into.
I'm also a healthcare medical writer as well.
So I dabble in lots of little bits, things that interest me and things I'm passionate about.
And you've actually got an amazing career that you've built up there by the sounds of it and you're doing so many things.
And you've just mentioned the end there about things that you're passionate about.
So do you want to explain a little bit more about your passions and values, why you do what you do? Yeah, sure.
I feel like we're going to be here forever in that case.
Yeah, I feel like every human's really multifaceted.
And I think going through a very clinical career made me realize like how many other aspects of myself that I wasn't engaging with or wasn't able to quite be as creative with.
I think being in a clinical role is absolutely incredible.
You get to meet so many people from different walks of life.
You get to treat and care for them.
You get to follow their progress through.
And it's absolutely amazing, but there are definitely elements of the ability to be a bit more creative, a bit more with the rules, a bit more rebellious, I suppose, and some of these aspects, a bit more disruptive.
And I think those kinds of aspects of myself needed another space to be engaged with, and I guess some of these other areas and roles that I've now taken really fulfill me in that respect.
So I have a really.
Varied week, which I really enjoy.
I love the fact that I have that flexibility in my schedule and I really enjoy that I get to do lots of different things that I really enjoy and all the teams that I work with are amazing.
I think that's definitely something that brings so much to your role because again, you can be working on one of the most incredible and impactful projects or programs of work.
But again, you need your team around you.
You need to be able to be supported and you to support them through the entire process and the journey.
In fact, the journey is what makes it.
worth it to kind of get particular outcomes or outputs that you're looking for.
So I guess, in a bit of a nutshell, that's why I've gone for what I've gone for and what I enjoy about it.
That's really interesting, Farrah.
And what I heard you there was talking about being creative and disruptive.
Yes.
So obviously that was something that you felt that you didn't have in your clinical role.
Do you feel that that mattered or made a difference to how you were able to do that clinical role? So I think the biggest awakening moment was COVID for me.
So as everyone knew and does know that COVID has been a really difficult time for lots of clinicians and even people obviously not in the clinical world.
It's been a really tough situation for those in the clinical world.
A lot of us were redeployed to areas.
Um, so In that particular time frame, I was working in the outpatient area, so I was redeployed to infection protection and control in the hospital that I was working in.
And it was definitely one of the most eye opening experiences for me, was involved in really strategic decision making conversations.
And I always say this to whenever anybody asks me, this was the first opportunity in my career that I got to look behind the kind of golden curtain and actually see how Our discussions were led, what the pros and cons were, and genuinely see the granular detail that people up the hierarchy genuinely have to report on, review, and make those really difficult decisions that can be seen as good or bad.
And I think on reflection now having seen the process, I understand how much difficulty and challenge people in really big organizations, especially in the health and social care world, really.
Face, and it's far more difficult than when we switch on the TV and watch the news and see the kind of headline title.
There's so much that happens behind the scenes that we as public don't have the knowledge or don't quite know all the intel about.
And I really valued that experience.
Although it was one of one of the toughest roles I had in my career to that point, it was probably the most eye opening and awakening moment for me in my career.
Thank you.
So you've said that was eye opening and awakening, and you've talked about how people at that level, that sort of hierarchy and how there were things that they had to report on, and they had to do.
Yet you were talking about the fact that you've left to be creative and destructive and disruptive, not destructive, sorry, wrong word there.
So.
I'm interested in thinking for the people in those positions or when people are under that pressure to do those reports or work a particular way, do you think that has an impact on the people that we care for and do you think there's something that maybe needs to be different or change? What was that awakening I suppose is what I'm asking you.
Oh you're like asking really philosophical questions here at the moment.
So it's really difficult to answer in one go, but I guess for me and in my experience, that, that particular experience was a point in time for me to want to make a bigger difference.
So as part of my kind of clinical role, you would see a patient, you would treat them, and it's kind of like a conveyor belt style.
Like in that particular day, I would probably see about sort of 10 to 14 patients, and that's kind of my day.
When you see what the roles of people in other sort of director and above kind of positions in a healthcare organization, they're making impacts for thousands of patients in just one decision.
And I think it was just the fact that that distinction was so big when I saw it happen.
So that one decision that I was.
part of X meeting in a particular situation during the COVID experience, you could see just a cascade of ramifications that fell out of it, that the entire hospital based on one decision was impacted.
Whereas when I reflected on my work as a clinician on the ground and a bit more granular, yes, I was obviously, you know, Making impact for families for that particular patient or their children or their parents, et cetera, or their friends in that particular remit.
But it didn't feel like for me at that time, I think I'd got everything that I wanted to from that one to one care aspect.
And I wanted a taste of a bit more and I wanted to.
appreciate what that kind of level of understanding and challenge would be of a bigger decision and a bigger framework of health and social care.
And again, my right, my remit is very specialty based as well.
So I feel like I hadn't had enough of the experience and ability to put myself out there to have an ability to see all of that.
I think that was kind of where the awakening kind of, I guess, aspect came from.
Thank you.
That's really Interesting.
And I want to bring you now more to your career.
You've talked about the fact that you've moved to have more impact.
So you realize that impact that you were having and those wider decisions as you moved into those roles and people above you.
So you've moved on to other roles.
So I wonder if you want to sort of talk about that in a bit more depth and perhaps we can.
Unless you've particularly got something that's coming into your mind, perhaps we can sort of start with that, um, your Darzi programme and that project and the impact that you had and what that meant to you.
Yeah, sure, of course.
So the Darzi Fellowship was definitely the jumping off point for me.
I think after having seen behind that golden curtain, that was definitely, Where I made my decision to apply after a conversation with a colleague, um, in my department who suggested to, to apply for it.
So I'm really grateful that that experience happened and I, I did apply and I went for it.
So I ended up landing in Kent Community Council as part of their public health team and the suicide prevention part of it.
So very different to my regular day job.
And what's.
really odd as well, now having, now we're having this conversation and now I'm reflecting back a couple of years after the fellowship, I was kind of known as the respectful disruptor through the entire process.
So I guess the name and the branding stuck in that respect.
So yeah, it was a really interesting space to be in.
It was a completely different arena for me.
I didn't know anything about mental health or suicide prevention at all, going into the project.
And now in hindsight.
I'm really glad that I didn't because it meant that I could apply things that I didn't have a blueprint that I was going in with.
I didn't have any protocols.
I didn't have any preconceived conceptions or biases that I went in for.
I completely went in with a sort of a blank slate.
And I think that, to me, was probably the best thing that I did rather than choosing a project that was a little bit more close to my territory of work and clinical work.
And I'm really glad that that's What, what happened in the end, I definitely was very apprehensive when I went in and I guess that in terms of the background itself, it was based on the fact that as we probably all know, in terms of the office of national statistics when during COVID 19, so that would have caused a decrease in mental wealth being indicators.
So it's part of a big working plan to ensure that socioeconomic determinants and health disparities were reduced and to prevent.
Unfavorable circumstances for local communities.
There was a push for voluntary sectors and public health to essentially engage these community sectors and to listen to those voices.
So what we ended up doing was socializing a massive listening experience.
We ended up listening to over 4, 000, I'm going to quote the number now, 4, 684 community members.
I feel it's branded into my brain now because we've said it so many times.
And it's included over 51.
different ethnicities, 30 different languages.
We had around a hundred thousand pounds that we'd had as funding, um, across all the different, um, voluntary care sector and the actual public health and the county council itself that everyone was kind of working together in collaboration.
Um, we ended up doing a reflection and action workshop after we did the listening, um, exercises with all the local community members, um, and we ended up having 400.
Sorry, 243 individuals sign up for those particular sections of the workshop as well.
And essentially it was all about sort of decentralizing that power.
It was all about sort of organizational knowledge and purpose and that distributed leadership that we wanted to share.
And we also wanted to ensure that.
The whole idea, the concept of it being improving mental well being indicators wasn't just a you said we did kind of thing and it wasn't a we're doing this to you as a community.
It was a let's work together.
What do you require? How can we help? How can we keep this up in terms of longevity? How did you get into this? situation or why situation, who else is in need, where else can we talk to, and how can we be sensitive so that we understand the situation and how can we prevent it.
There was just so many different aspects that came out of this and fell out of this, that it was.
Absolutely incredible to see people opening up and sharing their stories and I guess being with each other, which I feel like as silly as it sounds in healthcare, that kind of aspect of collaborative working and being an accepting of one another should be sort of our baseline.
And I feel like sometimes in our job roles, we forget that at the other side of.
the table is another human being.
And I think this really opened up that door to listen to those stories, to reflect on those stories, and then to make a decision with that said person about their story, about what they wanted to do, or if they didn't want to do anything about it, who they wanted to help, or how they wanted to help, or how they could be part of the project as well.
And I think that's probably the most important, one of the most important takeaways that I took away from the Darcy Fellowship itself.
And that's really interesting because that's very similar to the conversation that I had with Adam Lent, who was on this podcast the other week, and he was launching the do with hashtag.
So really what you're talking about is that what, what matters to you, what's important to you? How can I help you achieve this? that came out of that.
So you've talked about some of the things that you have had.
Have you got any sort of any examples of things that you've done and what were happening? Have you got any examples that you can share to show some of that positive impact that you had or that the team had that you were doing? Yeah, so we set up about 50 grassroots.
Um, community led, uh, wellbeing projects, um, based on all the data that we collected, the stories that were shared.
And one of the long lasting thing was having a better mental health network that now, well, then hosted about 280 members.
I'm pretty sure it's way more than that now that I haven't sort of got the latest statistic.
Some of the elements of the kind of grassroots organizations were having family days and away days and, um, having sports camps and just essentially it was Places to gather, places to share safe spaces.
I think so.
Everything reflected that and embodied that element of having those safe places to share, places to come together and places to be with each other.
And so it wasn't just a case of we're giving you money and we're funding this.
Every penny, every pound that we utilize in this entire project was agreed by and shared with people that.
really wanted to make this work and wanted to make this go further and further in, in the project itself.
And I think it's really well reflected based on the retirement investment, if you're using all that corporate sort of jargon that you have to report on backwards as well.
But it was just really great to see communities, voluntary care sector, NHS mental health services, local authorities, healthcare partnerships, integrated care systems, representatives from.
Every walk of life that you could possibly think of being part of this process.
I've just never seen anything so big come together in such a short space of time, which really indicated the need that was there it was so prevalent that it was so required at that given time and I think It really felt like everyone that Wanted to be heard and wanted to be seen.
So it's incredible 51 grassroots projects.
You said that that showed that there was a real need and that's why it happened.
But actually I'm sure that need was there for a long time.
So what do I want to ask you, Farrah, is what do you think that to happen? I know that you were doing a project and for people that aren't listening, I'm just really aware that they might not understand what the Darcy Fellowship is.
And it is a program for a year for people working in clinical roles to step out.
And to facilitate a project that will make a difference and, and have that, um, space to try something out that's new and different a long time alongside some study and things.
So obviously you had that year in order to, to facilitate that project and behind this project it sounds like there was funding, which is always useful as well.
What else was it? Was there something in the culture? Was there something else? Or was it something that you done or other people done? What facilitated that to really happen to go from that need that had always been there to that need being able to be addressed or recognized? Yeah, that's a really good question.
And I would probably say, especially after the pandemic that we've all experienced, I think mental health and well being has been high on the agenda.
Throughout the pandemic, as well as after it, everyone experienced things in such a different way in such a varied amount that everyone's personal well being was so tested during this period of time.
So I guess to answer your question, it shows the exposure to health inequalities and having a reduction in personal resilience in general would.
Therefore cause a reduction in mental well being and I think that's very well known and I think community members affected by health inequalities are less likely or less able to access care and therefore they're seldom heard by services.
And for that very reason, we knew that we weren't hearing everything.
So it was like, we don't want to be stuck in an echo chamber of things that we assumed that we knew or things that we.
Think that we needed to do.
And by doing the listening exercise, it meant that we flipped it on its head and we got out of the echo chamber and we went to the people on the ground.
We went to places that maybe weren't as active with the local community or weren't as active with local authority in those spaces, and we were finding that there was hubs and there were people hosting people in houses and there were cafes being brought back to life after COVID and that people were already doing things.
They just needed a little bit of assistance and a little bit of marketing, or they just needed the word to get out a little bit more, or they just, they just needed a little bit of assistance to kind of get that foot in the door, just get a little bit further to bring more people and bring that spirit back into those places.
So I'm hoping that answers your question.
It's more about that lack of getting stuck in those assumptions.
That's really interesting.
So not being stuck in those assumptions, is that about the assumption that things weren't happening or an assumption that things were happening but that was actually something for somebody else to do? So I'd say a bit of both.
Because again, we made the assumption that things weren't happening at all and that well being was at the ultimate low in every space.
But actually what we did find was communities brought their own communities together.
And a lot of things were happening behind the scenes that local authorities had no idea about, but local communities knew that there were places to go to, there were people to reach out to, and people were making themselves known as support mechanisms for other people, which was so lovely to see.
And it just meant that there was places that we could already plug into and.
Support that said person or support that said mechanism and then add value to it.
So it was never about detracting or taking away of things that they already were doing.
It was about adding value to the places where they already wanted to be in and people that they wanted to be around and then increasing and allowing that trajectory of value add to all the places so that it wasn't just subjected to one particular area or one particular person.
And somebody wasn't just carrying the load in that one particular area or community that it was shared among.
And then therefore there was empowerment for more people to do this, more power, more empowerment for people to spread this and be part of this project, as well as be part of the change of increasing that well being across the area.
It sounds to me that you're saying that by just going out and talking to people and finding out and linking in, that you were able to find a whole wealth of what you would call grassroots projects that were happening, people just every day, let's do this.
And from that, you were able to help add that value and help to support those and help them to grow.
Absolutely.
Again, it falls back into the how can we help rather than let's do this to you motto of healthcare.
Yes.
Yeah.
Moving from that, uh, do to, to do with.
Exactly.
So you've moved on from then and I don't know so much about what you're doing, but I did see the other week that you'd posted something up on LinkedIn, which was why I got back in touch with you and thought, Oh, it'd be really great to have you on the show.
And you were talking there a little bit about your role now and what you're doing.
So I wonder if you want to sort of describe that to me and talk about what it is that you're doing now and what impact you're hoping that will have.
Yeah, sure.
So currently right now in my role in cloud 21, I am supporting something called the frontline digitalization offer that NHS England provide.
And essentially what that is, is they support lots of different NHS trusts going live with digital systems.
So as we know, there is a digital strategy that asks NHS trusts to go paperless, which is it.
The really tough ask, especially when we've always been financially limited in some of these areas.
And again, skill sets again, are tricky to have all these different.
So you need, you need, it's a big jigsaw puzzle, basically, to bring lots of different things in terms of resources, people with skill sets, people with time, capacity, capability, et cetera, in all these different spaces.
So the FDSOs, um, which is kind of the, the shorthand for it.
So the frontline digitalization offer essentially provides that support mechanism for NHS trusts.
going through this process of going from digitally immature or completely on paper to a paperless system.
So we provide facilitated workshops in partnership with other collaborative consultancies and we essentially walk through different elements.
different parts of the project that they might come across all the way from technical capabilities and walking through technical things that might be required.
Lots of lessons learned because again, lots of trusts have gone live.
Lots of things have happened.
Lots of lessons have been accumulated and put into documentation so that other trusts can learn and hopefully not repeat those same mistakes.
But also it just means this is an iterative process.
Once all the trusts go live with an electronic health record, there'll be an element of.
Um, digitization where all trust will then need to become even more mature.
Um, so this is just the first step to get everybody through that process.
And so therefore this support mechanism is, I think, particularly helpful because you get to have really in depth conversations.
Chatham House rules are applied to all of these workshops, because again, we're sharing information and we're sharing stories that you wouldn't necessarily be able to feel as comfortable with, and we're having really.
lively debates about how to do things and really honing in on the experience that all of us have had during some of these implementations and being able to genuinely share how to make things better and making sure that the patient is at the center of everything that we do.
The patient is the number one, the value add is for them, but also making sure that staff are able to see the value add to it.
It's really difficult sometimes when you have such a big.
Variety of stakeholders involved in such a big project.
And again, this is a really big public health and a public sector project, um, across all these different trusts.
So it's really, really difficult to maintain all the different kind of criteria and the success factors that you, that you need.
So it's really good to have a place where you can soundboard.
challenge each other freely and be able to express difficulties.
And this is where we kind of all come together.
And as facilitators, we provide that support mechanism.
We signpost for the right documentation.
We signpost for potential resource.
We do lots of different things that help for us to be able to do what they do in conjunction with NHS England in general.
Thank you.
And that just sounds incredible.
It sounds amazingly complex and not least because of the fact that you're trying to make sure that every voice is there.
So I'm presuming from what you've said that when you're doing these workshops, you have got people that are or might be people that are going to come forward because they need some support or need some sort of care.
So, you know me, I don't like so much the word patient because when does a person become a patient? But the people in our communities and the people that you're caring for, you have them there, you have the staff, but then obviously you also have the people that are really trying to put that into place, which makes that quite a difficult.
thing to make sure, but on the other hand is hopefully going to make it more robust.
I'm going to ask you a really basic question about this now, because you've gone from telling me a story about how you're really linking in with those communities to doing this.
Why is this project important to you and what will be its potential impact of digitization? Sure.
So I think in general, I think digitalization has its pros and cons as with it, as with everything in that respect, but I think we are moving.
to a world where everything is to some degree on your mobile via an app and therefore I do feel as part of the health and social care sector we are a little bit slower in terms of moving in that space.
We're always there in terms of the research aspect and we're always looking out for these really great ideas and I go to so many different meetings and have done even in my clinical career where we've attended lots of things about really great ideas.
Cutting edge technology and cutting edge research that you would hear about as part of the rigorous process.
It takes so long to get to the point because again, there's loads of safety mechanisms, safety processes that you have to go through, lots of sign offs, um, as, as part of any process and, and completely, um, non-negotiable in that respect.
And, and I completely align with that.
But I think sometimes we are a little bit slow to, um, get ourselves on that bandwagon and challenge ourselves in some of these spaces because we have so many different conflicting priorities.
At the end of the day, health and social care is health and social care.
We are there to care for people.
We are there to provide support for people.
We are there because we are passionate.
To make people better and not any worse.
So therefore providing technology is not always one of our strong suits for some people.
This is not something that we came into the industry for, I suppose, you know, when you're, when you're young and thinking about your career and coming into the health space, it's not something that you essentially go, Oh, that's exactly what I aspire to be.
Well.
Maybe now, maybe nowadays might be a little bit different, but it's not exactly what I aspired, you know, in my first aspirations, I suppose.
But I think now having been in this world for a little while, there's just so many benefits to being able to provide personalized care through technology or providing that bespoke amount of support for particular people, or being able to be more readily.
and be more efficient in some of our processes.
So it doesn't mean that everything has to be technology based.
It doesn't mean that all of the contact that we have with our different, uh, with different people, um, and patients in, in, in our kind of hospital settings has to be, um, through technology.
But I think it's definitely there as a possible tool to utilize and enhance our skill sets and enhance the way that we care and enhance the way that we support rather than it being a detractor to replace us or replace the things that we do.
Because at the end of the day, again, people taking care of people is probably what the essence is of kind of human and mankind.
Wow, that's fascinating.
And what I've heard there, which I really liked, was that you spoke about personalizing care.
It was about providing bespoke care for people.
Um, in different ways rather than, you know, so often we hear about care packages and these sorts of things, but you're talking about bespoke and you're also about talking about increasing access to things.
So when, when I think about digitalization hospital, you know, one of the first things that comes to my mind, probably because I sort of trained in the eighties was I'm thinking about all those paper notes that we had.
So you think about those notes, but actually this is so much more than about people's records and notes.
This is about so many other things.
that can come out of that and ways of actually providing the care.
So it isn't just about record keeping or anything else.
It's about so much more.
And you sort of described that.
So have you got any stories or maybe there's something that surprised you that's come up that you think, wow, I didn't expect that to happen from this.
Or that's a really positive impact in a story that you could share to sort of give a little bit of a picture around that at all.
Yeah, sure.
So I think through some of this, I've definitely seen so many different electronic systems and digitization systems, different systems require so many kind of complexities and different sort of implementation methodologies and different skill sets.
So it's really interesting because every time you step into this workshop.
Or facilitation space.
You don't know what kind of questions are gonna come up, you dunno how trusts are, how they're actually genuinely feeling about the whole process, uh, and, and exactly where they're at.
So it's, this is, again, coming away from all the reportable kind of KPIs and outputs that you technically have to report on.
This is coming away from that and actually having a really realistic, pragmatic conversation.
And I do think that there is something to be said about being.
Slightly outside and adjacent to some of these NHS trusts, because it provides you a really different picture to what trusts are really feeling and going through, especially having gone through it, you know, myself as well through a particular program that I did for an implementation system, and now stepping out of it and seeing how I can be sort of like, I guess, an advisor or, you know, a support mechanism in that respect, rather than just doing the doing.
It's really interesting how much, um, influence and how much, how much storytelling has such a big impact in these spaces, because it's all well and good for, you know, your suppliers that you're working with and the vendors that you're working with to provide you lots of guidebooks and ways to do things.
And that's all fantastic because you need all of that.
That's, you know, very much part of the structure of your program and how you're going to actually implement things.
But what I've found That's really powerful through this particular facilitation area of work that I do is the stories that we all end up sharing because they leave such a lasting impact and there's so much learning that comes out of that sort of storytelling itself.
Thank you.
And it just sounds amazing work.
And I think those three bits that you brought up earlier on about that impact and that it has is really helpful and certainly opened my eyes today.
So the last thing, and maybe I'm missing some things, the last thing I'd really like to talk about is your involvement with with NHS TEDx.
So if I said that correctly.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
So TEDxNHS has definitely been a passion of mine for a really long time.
So I volunteered, it's a non, not for profit organization.
It's all about a platform to share powerful stories to, to ensure that people are kind of, you know, to share these amazing people that are doing some incredible things in the health and social care areas.
People are not always clinicians.
They're not always social care workers.
People are people.
They're either.
What we say is they're a person of a patient, or they are the patient, or they have been a patient, or they are related to a patient experience, or they are somebody that's genuinely working in the system itself, and sharing a story about some incredible things that they're doing.
And I think this platform has just provided such a Powerful place for people to share their story.
So I guess like, again, this is me sort of sharing the impact of storytelling and in another place itself and in another remit.
So I guess one of the stories I would like to share is I was a speaker coach last year in 2024, and I worked with an incredible.
speaker who was talking about the decolonization of dermatology material in medicine and it was such a powerful piece of script that we wrote and she rehearsed and she delivered so beautifully on stage and it was all about representation of skins shouldn't be binary.
She talks about how it should be a spectrum of people and groups.
And I think, again, this just comes back to the same messages that we were talking about right at the start as part of the Darcy Fellowship about the whole aspect of listening and the importance of it.
So, you know, even as a clinician, the first thing that you do when you're, when you're, you know, your patient walks through the door and sits down, you know, you say, hello, you? And.
You ask them their story you to ask them and you do a history and you ask them all the questions that you need all the relevant information and they tell you their story sitting there in that room.
And it's a really vulnerable place to be in.
And I think TEDx really reflects that.
It really highlights how.
I definitely have to say, it really reflects how one story can have such a cascade of powerful ripple effects across lots of different people, generations, different kinds of people.
And we've definitely seen so many things come out of just one person telling their story and coming out of it and reflecting on it and then a curation of different actions that fall out of it.
So it's been really, really amazing to work with this.
one particular speaker.
So Nabil Khan is her name.
If anybody wants to have a little look, you can have a little look at her talk on YouTube.
She did an amazing job.
And this year I'm supporting actually organize the event for 2025.
So I'm really excited to do that.
That's, that's really lovely.
And I think that what you've brought out there is just, is that thing about storytelling and it is about people going out and just talking to different people listening.
And taking time to hear the stories of what other people are doing or what's happening or how are things for you and thinking about that impact and that idea of that story telling, having that ripple effect to make a difference because at the end of the day, as you say, is about making a difference for the people.
in our communities, whoever they might be, and recognizing who they are.
So all the way from, from, and I know it probably goes back way beyond, um, before I knew you, but sort of from that program that you're doing with the Darzi program, where you listen to what people with 30 different languages, um, and 51 different groups or something like that, that you spoke about, but actually going out and listening to different people, who they are, both the people that are working with them.
The people that are receiving care or support or whatever that might look like and listening.
So it's an absolutely fascinating, um, story yourself, Farrah.
So I'm sure from this, there'll be a lovely ripple effect.
Yeah, I think it's really nice one for people to reflect on because you've given us quite a few different things for people to sort of think about.
So thank you so much for joining me today.
Um, before you go, I just want to ask, are there any particular.
Key messages that you want to share with people? Yeah.
I guess the thing that I've always kind of, I guess has as a bit of a life ma motto, I suppose it, I think there's a, a thing to be said around transformation of lived experience.
I feel like all of us have our own story to tell at to some degree, and I think we.
Don't always consider how powerful the transformation that can transform somebody else or validate someone else's lived experience.
Again, there's a commonality of humankind amongst us.
And I think we sometimes we forget that in the busyness of life itself.
And I think we're so good as humans, as you know.
We're so primed to look for patterns and we're so primed to use particular language that we forget that the essence sometimes behind it is that one little story, that one little golden nugget.
So I guess I implore you all to share your stories and discover other people's stories.
Thank you.
I think that's a really lovely ending.
So thank you so much.
Thank you for having me today.
Bye bye.
Bye.