Latest / Hurdle with Emily Abbate / 323. Navigating Burnout & Depression: Dr. Elizabeth Sharp Talks Symptoms, Treatment & Finding Joy In The Every Day

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323. Navigating Burnout & Depression: Dr. Elizabeth Sharp Talks Symptoms, Treatment & Finding Joy In The Every Day · Hurdle with Emily Abbate

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: When you're feeling less burned out. I was with a
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: more elevated mood. Overall, you have more to give at
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: work than you know, socially and for yourself.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: Hey everyone, Emily a body here.
• 0:26
  Speaker 3: You are listening to episode three hundred and twenty three
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  Speaker 3: of Hurdle, a wellness focused podcast where I talk to
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  Speaker 3: inspirational people about everything from their highest ties and toughest
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: moments to essential tips on how to live a healthier, happier,
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: more motivated life. We all go through our fair share
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: of hurdles. My goal through these discussions is to empower
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: you to better navigate yours and move with intention so
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: that you can stride towards your own big potential and
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: of course have some fun along the way. For today's episode,
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  Speaker 3: I am bringing in the big guns with doctor Elizabeth Sharp.
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  Speaker 3: She's the founder and medical director at Health Meets Wellness,
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  Speaker 3: which is a concierge primary care facility here in New York,
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  Speaker 3: and today her and I are really diving in to
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: the topics of burnout and seasonal depression. I shared a
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: little bit about what I've been experiencing lately on a
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: recent installment of Five Minute Friday and got a really
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: resonant response, with so many of you in the hurdle
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: community saying I am dealing with burnout, I am dealing
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: with seasonal depression, and you were looking for answers, and
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: so that is why doctor Sharp is on the show today.
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: We get started talking a little bit about weight management,
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: something that she does address in her practice, but then
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: quickly pivot into the reason for our discussion and talking
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: about burnout and seasonal depression. What the signs and symptoms
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  Speaker 3: of both are, how to distinguish between the two, knowing
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  Speaker 3: that they can show up in tandem, and then also
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: treatment options right, how does someone navigate burnout, how does
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  Speaker 3: someone navigate seasonal depression?
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  Speaker 2: If you do choose to lean into.
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  Speaker 3: Medical intervention, what your options are not just medication, but
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  Speaker 3: also talking to a therapist, integrating in regular movement, and
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  Speaker 3: other practical tips. On the medication note, we talk about
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  Speaker 3: what you should know if you are interested in going
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: on medication for depression, how long it might take for
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: that medication to start working for you, and how to
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: know if and when you should go off that medication.
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: As someone who had a difficult time navigating depression in
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: early twenty twenty two, I really appreciate what this episode
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: brings to the table and hope that it can be
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: a resource for the hurdle community. As with any episode,
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: any expert that comes on the show, I am aiming
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: to give you reliable and safe information. But if you
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: are experiencing anything that we talk about in this episode,
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: make sure you reach out one one to a physician
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: so that you can get custom tailored help specific to
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: what you are experiencing. I also do want this to
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: jumpstart a discussion, so if you have a question about
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: anything that we talk about in this episode, feel free
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: to write in with a listener question. You can always
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: email us with that or anything else at Hello at
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: Hurdle dot us. Make sure you're following along with Hurdle
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: over on social It's at Hurdle Podcast. I myself am
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: over at Emily a Body And with that, let's get
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: to it.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: Let's get to hurdling today.
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  Speaker 3: I am sitting down with doctor Elizabeth Sharp. She's the
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  Speaker 3: founder and medical director at Health meets Wellness.
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  Speaker 2: How are we doing today?
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  Speaker 1: I'm great, so excited to be here.
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  Speaker 3: I'm so happy that we were able to carve out
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  Speaker 3: the time to do this because we are here today
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  Speaker 3: to talk about an extremely time sensitive issue that is
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: navigating burnout and then also a little bit of seasonal depression.
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  Speaker 2: But before we get into that, I want to know
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  Speaker 2: a little bit about you. Where are you, what do
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  Speaker 2: you do? Give us the lowdown.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, So my office is in New York City. I
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  Speaker 1: am a primary care doctor, so in interness by training,
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  Speaker 1: I'm also functional medicine certified and in my practice health
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  Speaker 1: meets Wellness. I take a more holistic approach to primary
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  Speaker 1: care and weight management by combining medicine, exercise, and nutrition
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  Speaker 1: in my practice. So everyone that comes in sees me,
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  Speaker 1: they see a dietician, they get a meal plan as
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  Speaker 1: well as an exercise plan. We track biometrics and short
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  Speaker 1: term and long term goals so that all of our
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  Speaker 1: patients are on their path to health optimization.
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  Speaker 2: This is super interesting to me.
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  Speaker 3: So when someone comes into your practice and they express
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  Speaker 3: an interest in changing something about their lifestyle.
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  Speaker 2: You mentioned that you work in weight management.
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  Speaker 3: What are the questions that you're asking them so that
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  Speaker 3: they can make informed decisions about what it is they
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  Speaker 3: want to do and how they want to proceed.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think you know a couple of questions
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  Speaker 1: that come to mind that I try to ask everyone
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  Speaker 1: in different ways depending on how it comes up. Is
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  Speaker 1: you know, where are you now and where would you
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  Speaker 1: like to be in you know, three months, six months,
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  Speaker 1: twelve months, and five years from now. And then additionally,
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  Speaker 1: you know, how do you feel overall about your mental, emotional,
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  Speaker 1: spiritual health as well as physical health? And are there
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  Speaker 1: things about your I would say, day to day energy levels,
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  Speaker 1: feeling in your body, overall, things like that that you
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  Speaker 1: want to optimize or change. And oftentimes just with those
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  Speaker 1: questions alone, we can kind of figure out what a
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  Speaker 1: roadmap for the next year or so will look like.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like, especially these days, there's so many
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  Speaker 3: conversations that are being had about weight management, so many
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  Speaker 3: individuals seeking counsel assistance or perhaps feeling pressure to do
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  Speaker 3: one thing or the other based on what's going on
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  Speaker 3: in society.
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  Speaker 2: How has that impacted you in your practices?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean with weight management in particular. So those
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  Speaker 1: questions that I just mentioned are kind of like general
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  Speaker 1: for all patients, but for weight management also, I think
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  Speaker 1: it's important to sort of think about weight history in
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  Speaker 1: the sense of sometimes there can be inflection points in
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  Speaker 1: life that cause changes in weight because of diet and
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  Speaker 1: lifestyle changes for example, a more sedentary job, pregnancy, a
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: stressful life event, you know COVID nineteen for example, things
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  Speaker 1: like that which are really important to identify in terms of,
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  Speaker 1: you know, what might have changed and what was working before,
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  Speaker 1: because it's important to recognize factors that are either barriers
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  Speaker 1: to change or also you know, factors or things that
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  Speaker 1: have worked in the past that you might want to
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  Speaker 1: invite into a new, reframed plan. And I try to
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  Speaker 1: work on building from that and then figuring out, you know,
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  Speaker 1: what things in a I would say lifestyle are health
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  Speaker 1: oriented versus no, and then how to kind of build
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  Speaker 1: on that as well, because ultimately, health, optimization, longevity, all
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  Speaker 1: of that is a lifestyle. It's not a quick fix.
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  Speaker 1: And that's the biggest thing with weight management is to
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  Speaker 1: think that think about it from a long term perspective,
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  Speaker 1: in the sense that weight loss is not actually really
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  Speaker 1: the goal. It's weight loss and weight maintenance. It's maintaining
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  Speaker 1: the weight loss that you know, is the real key.
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  Speaker 1: And that's the part that's hard. If you, for example,
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  Speaker 1: just rely on some of these new weight loss medications
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  Speaker 1: and you don't make those positive behavior changes, it's very
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  Speaker 1: likely that you won't maintain the weight loss, right, And
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  Speaker 1: so that's what I really try to emphasize in my
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  Speaker 1: practice is building that positive feedback with the behavior change
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  Speaker 1: and then the results that you want, so that it's
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  Speaker 1: a feed forward cycle and then you're building that lifestyle
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  Speaker 1: that you want.
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  Speaker 3: I've heard a startling amount of statistics about the individuals
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  Speaker 3: that lose weight and then are incapable of maintaining that
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  Speaker 3: weight loss, as low as between like one in five
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  Speaker 3: percent of individuals who undergo something like that. Now, obviously
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  Speaker 3: statistics change over time, but it'll be really interesting to
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  Speaker 3: see what happens for the greater population with time, as
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  Speaker 3: so many people I have gone, you know this fruit
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  Speaker 3: with the weight loss medications. Yeah, and that's one of
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  Speaker 3: the biggest things that I emphasize in my practice because
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  Speaker 3: I do prescribe those medications and I think that they're
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  Speaker 3: amazing in terms of their efficacy and safety profile.
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  Speaker 1: But the key is that they have to be paired
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  Speaker 1: with the diet and lifestyle changes. Otherwise you lose critical
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  Speaker 1: skeletal muscle masks. You don't build the positive behavior changes
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  Speaker 1: to maintain the weight loss, and then ultimately you can
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  Speaker 1: end up in a worse place than you were when
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  Speaker 1: you started the medication in terms of overall health and
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  Speaker 1: body composition. So I agree. I mean, it's going to
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  Speaker 1: be interesting to see how the landscape changes once we
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  Speaker 1: have more data, and I think once people understand a
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  Speaker 1: little bit more about how to use the medications in
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  Speaker 1: a meaningful way so that they can be transitioned off
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  Speaker 1: of for some and for others. You know, they may
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  Speaker 1: be a long term thing with those positive behavior changes,
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  Speaker 1: just depending on the patient. But it's an exciting time
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  Speaker 1: for weight management, that's for sure. It is.
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  Speaker 3: So we've obviously gone down that path, but now I'm
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  Speaker 3: going to reel us in and talking about what's going
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  Speaker 3: on right now. So many into visuals I feel like
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  Speaker 3: experience both seasonal depression and burnout kind of simultaneously. I
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: spoke a little bit about this on the show recently,
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  Speaker 3: dealing with my personal experience with burnout, and I got
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  Speaker 3: so many people coming into my DMS and my inbox saying, hey,
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  Speaker 3: I feel the exact same way, which is why I
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  Speaker 3: wanted to get someone like yourself on the show who
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: is an expert in these areas. So first and foremost,
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  Speaker 3: when we talk about burnout. What are we really getting at?
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  Speaker 2: What is burnout?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah? So you know, I think ultimately it's kind of
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  Speaker 1: like a chronic stress response. Right, So over time, you
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  Speaker 1: can actually withstand a lot of stress and I would
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  Speaker 1: say high amounts of stimuli to a point where you
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  Speaker 1: will be overdoing it mentally and physically, and eventually you
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  Speaker 1: get to let's call it critical mass, right, and that's
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: burnout where you just I would say, don't have the
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  Speaker 1: mental bandwidth to continue at that level because ultimately, eventually,
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  Speaker 1: this is what happens even with chronic stress. You know,
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: you have corticol burnout, right, So cortisol levels are at
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: a high, high level, and then all of a sudden
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: you start to have the side effects from high corticol
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  Speaker 1: levels long term that are very different from a quick spike. Right.
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: I would liken it to like the adrenaline of running
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  Speaker 1: away from a bear versus if you're running with from
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  Speaker 1: the bear every day, eventually the bear is going to
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  Speaker 1: start to do different things to your body. And this
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: says that you can't run at MAC speed every single
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: day all day, eventually you will burn out. And so
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: that's what's happening. But I think the biggest thing with burnout,
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: specifically from work, is that there's a lot of imbalance
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: between mental and physical health right now, in the sense
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  Speaker 1: of a lot of times work is very it's cognitively demanding.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: People are not exercising enough, and there's not enough work
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: life balance, so there's not enough time to recharge. And
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: the reality is everyone has a finite amount of bandwidth
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: per day, and when you try to squeeze that more,
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: more and more into that, eventually your mind just can't
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: work at a super high level one hundred percent of
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: the time and you will burn out. And then you
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: get feedback, which is that you know, either you're unable
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: to engage at a high level, you feel apathetic or
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: depressed or things like that. And I think when it's
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: coupled with seasonal depression, it makes it even more complicated
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  Speaker 1: because that can I would say, already have a level
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: of change in motivation, change in energy level and routine
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: that could lead to burnout quicker.
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: How do you differentiate between Okay, I think I'm experiencing burnout.
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  Speaker 3: This just all really feels like a lot for me
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: right now, versus some of the symptoms that someone might
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: undergo if they're experiencing seasonal depression.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: I ask a lot about the difference of how people
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: feel on the weekends versus the work week, and that's
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: a better question for people who are working Monday through Friday.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: If you're working during the weekend, that is helpful, but
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  Speaker 1: that can actually help to get a better pulse on
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: the baseline level of kind of feeling in terms of emotional,
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: spiritual health, and mental health overall. And if people feel
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: a lot better on the weekends and then they tend
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: to feel a lot worse during the work week, there's
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: a high probability that that's burnout from work or lack
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: of work life balance versus obviously the alternative, which is
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: if there's something that's more in line with seasonal depression
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  Speaker 1: or seasonal effective disorder, then you're going to be having
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  Speaker 1: the same symptoms on the work week as you would
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: on the weekend. The other thing I would say, you know,
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  Speaker 1: that does change a little bit when caveat would be
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: maybe people sleep more on the weekends because they can.
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  Speaker 1: But besides that, I would say it can actually shed
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: a lot of light into what the kind of like
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: as I was saying, pulse or real undertone is of
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: what's going on. Additionally, you know, I always ask about
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: vacation time, so how do you feel on vacation versus
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: not And if there's a big discrepancy, that usually points
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: to burnout at work.
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  Speaker 3: So we've talked a little bit about how you might
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: be able to distinguish what burnout is. But when someone
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: is experiencing burnout, what would you say is the first
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: plan of attack? What is one of the first things
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  Speaker 3: that needs to change in order to treat this scenario.
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: So, you know, I would say a couple of things.
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  Speaker 1: That depends on how severe the burnout is or how
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  Speaker 1: far down the line you know you are with the burnout.
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  Speaker 1: In some cases, it I would say, I'll sometimes recommend
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: a career switch if it's really burnout and fatigue from
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: the work situation and it's not going to change. Because
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: one of the biggest things that I've been talking to
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: a lot of my patients about more recently is if
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: your work schedule is really stressful and you're working long hours,
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: is it likely to change? Yes or no? And if
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: it's not likely to change, then we have to meet
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: you where you are and figure out things that we
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: can fit into your lifestyle. So that you can, you know,
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: have some time for yourself within that schedule, because the
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: work schedule then is not going to change. If there's
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: flexibility or desire to change that, then I would say,
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: you know, maybe exploring other options in terms of work
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: can be helpful, but that's obviously I would say if
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: things are very severe in terms of mild burnout, or
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: let's say you're experiencing burnout for the first time and
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: you want to make some changes, then again the question
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: would be sort of like, how can we fit things
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: into your current work schedule if it's not going to
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: change or if there isn't any flexibility, or conversely, is
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: there way to rearrange things so that you can have
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: a workout in the morning or have a workout in
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: the afternoon, even to two times a week and then
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: you work out on the weekends and then all of
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: a sudden, you're working out four times a week and
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: there's work life balance, right, So there are ways to
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: build in little things, even like walking at lunchtime or
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: little things like that that might seem silly but will
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: really move the needle over the course of the week.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: So I do think it's important to have an idea
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: of what lifestyle really looks like, where there are areas
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: of opportunity for change, and then you know what things
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: are really bringing you joy and do we need to
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: add more of those in I.
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: Love that prompt of meeting yourself with where you're at
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  Speaker 3: and being honest about what is realistic for you in
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: the moment. I think that it can be extremely overwhelming
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: if maybe you are honest that a career change could
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: be what's best for you, but you're so burnt out
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: that the idea of handling that, navigating that putting any
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: sort of plan to action feels completely daunting.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: You know, yeah, yeah, exactly. And I think the biggest
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: thing is like, I want to set all of my
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: patients up for success, So I don't want to set
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: goals that are unachievable or unrealistic because that's not going
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: to feel good. And then secondly, I think that you know,
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of merit to small steps climbing a mountain, right,
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: and so you don't have to make all the changes
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: at once, but it's important to feel a sense of
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: self efficacy and to feel like you're in control, and
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: oftentimes feeling burned out is a sense of like things
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: just piling up and piling up and feeling like you're
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: just drowning in work or stress or anything like that.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: And so it's kind of like being able to take
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: the lid off of that a little bit is something
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: that can be really helpful.
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: Small steps to help you get up the mountain. I
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: love that as well. Now we are in the midst
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: of a seasonal change.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: You are in New York. I am in New York.
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: It is chillier out today than it has been so far.
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: And with that seasonal change also comes some changes.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: In all of us.
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: Can we talk a little bit about what happens to
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: us in general when it's getting darker earlier, it's also
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: darker later in the morning.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: What's going on?
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean there are natural shifts in our
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: circadian rhythm based on daylight, right, and you know, the
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: body definitely does start to shut down earlier when it
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: gets dark earlier, and it definitely changes, you know, what
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: you want to eat, what you want to do, your
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: activity level. It's harder for all of us to get
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: out of bed in the morning if it's dark out,
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: and it's also harder to want to motivate and go
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: to the gym if you leave work and it's dark,
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: so the winter just becomes a tricky time. I will say,
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: you know, I do think that trying to optimize as
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: much as possible with things that you can fit into
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: your daily routine. So I was smiling and chuckling to
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: myself a little bit because I know that this is
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: maybe not be the most popular recommendation in the winter,
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: but I recommend walking as much as possible, and I
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: recommend getting you know, proper winter boots, in a winter jacket,
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: and walking as much as you can outside because here's
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: the thing. Things come up all the time with work
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: or you know, personal stuff, and then it's very easy
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: to kind of forego going to the gym or going
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: to that workout class if you just add walking into
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: your daily routine in the winter, because living in New York,
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: that's something you really can do throughout the course of
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: the week before you know what you've done the equivalent
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: of exercise in terms of the miles or steps that
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: you've walked, right, And so I really try to emphasize
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: things like that in the winter, where you can do
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: functional exercises or just daily movement, which which helps a lot.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: And then lean into things that you want to do,
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: maybe it's a hot yoga class or hot workout class,
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: which you wouldn't want to do in the summer, and
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: trying to like lean into the seasonal changes so that
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: they balance you and they feel like a fun change,
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: and so that there's variety as opposed to feeling like oh,
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: winter's coming, which is, you know, a feeling we all
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: have sometimes.
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: Feeling we all have sometimes And it sounds so simple, right,
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: investing in a pair of boots, investing in a good
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: winter jacket. But if that sounds also like something that
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: intimidates you, like, oh, you want me to go walk
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: in the cold, then I would encourage you. If you
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: don't have a gym membership where you might get access
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: to something like that, ask yourself, how important is this
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: to me?
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: Right? Because when you have a why, I believe you
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: have a way.
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: And so if you can join a gym for something
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: like a low cost, I think there are some gyms
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: in the city that are as low as thirty to
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: fifty dollars a month, right, ask yourself, where am I
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: spending my money? And is this something that I can
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: prioritize and then invest in? Because when we invest in ourselves.
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: Not only are you then able to better show up
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: for yourself, but then you're also able to show up
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: for all of the other people you care about, whether
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: that be your coworkers, your family, your friends.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: It's exactly, exactly yeah, And I think that ultimately that's
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: the thing. You know, when you're feeling less burned out,
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: I was with a more elevated mood. Overall, you have
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: more to give at work, and you know, socially and
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: for yourself.
• 19:25
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• 21:02
  Speaker 2: Today, I want to.
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: Now switch gears a little bit to talk about that
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: seasonal effective disorder. Talk about what is often referred to
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: as seasonal depression.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: For those that may be experiencing this for the first time.
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: Can you talk a little bit about the classic symptoms
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: of seasonal depression.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So it's typically, as the name suggests, symptoms that
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: will appear seasonally, right, and so people will notice that
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: their mood will start to dip every winter or every
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: fall going into winter. Noticing that you're starting to experience
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: some symptoms of depression. And there's a wide range, but
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: just to highlight a few that sometimes I would say
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: it could be maybe more ambiguous symptoms, but if you're
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: starting to notice this kind of cyclical presentation of the symptoms,
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: it can be helpful to identify this, which is, you know,
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: lack of energy or fatigue, change in behavior, change in
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: motivation or energy level, which we you know ties into fatigue,
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: changes in appetite, so under eating or overeating, difficulty with focusing,
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: you know, things like that, which all seem again like
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: they could be kind of either just kind of situational things.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: Maybe it's a weekend, you know, and you're tired from
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: the work week. But if these symptoms kind of start
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: to persist, and then also if they really start to
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: impact your daily life, right, so when they start to
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: impact your level of functioning at work or even with
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: social stuff, you're giving up social events or things like that,
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: you start to notice that it's really impacting your daily life,
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: that's a flag where you know, I would say you
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: should see your doctor.
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, It's so interesting, right because for me,
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: when I first experienced depression, it was in the winter months,
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: and I recall thinking to myself, I am such a
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: high functioning person. I can handle this, like, I will
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: figure it out. This is not something that is here
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: to stay. I have this strategies, et cetera. And it
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: did get to that point where I realized that my
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: motivation was waning in such a way that I didn't
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: really recognize the person that was looking at me back
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: in the mirror. And so for those individuals that may
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: have the same mindset that I started with, what do
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: you say to that?
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so you know, I think that sometimes there can
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: be a resistance to wanting to take medication for multiple reasons, right,
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: or to seek help or treatment and maybe better send
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: like management overall. Let's say it's kindnive behavioral therapy. Let's
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: say it's medication. Let's say it's a supplement. Maybe it's
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: an app or meditation or complementary and alternative medicine. Maybe
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: it's acupuncture, you know, whatever works best for you. But
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: I think sometimes there can be a little bit of
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: resistance to that because it feels like either you're admitting
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: that something's wrong, which can be a scary thing, or
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: people don't want to feel like they're reliant on medication.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: I think those are probably like the two biggest things
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: that I have seen in practice. And I would say,
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: like a common myth that I like to dispel is that,
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: you know, using medication is something that's negative, it's not right.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: It's there for a reason, and many people experience these
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: symptoms and the medications can help, and they can help
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: get you through a period of time. They don't have
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: to be a forever thing. And I think reframing it
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: like that as a you know, you can think about
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: it as the same thing as cognitive behavioral therapy or
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: acupuncture or talking to a friend. It's a way to
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: help support you. It's another support system, right, And I
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: think that kind of opening up that door so that
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: it feels to normalize it, so that it feels comfortable,
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: and you know, ultimately thinking about the quality of life component,
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: and I think that's the biggest thing that I also
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: try to emphasize, which is that you know, the goal
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: is to feel like you're at your best or as
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: close to as possible with ups and downs that come
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: with life. If it's a consistent thing where the down
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: is really you know, I would say, persisting for a
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: while and it's impact in your daily life. Then I
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: think the risk benefit in terms of seeking treatment just
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: really weighs in the opposite direction.
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: Right, right, And so for those that may be interested,
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: and I do appreciate that you articulated so many different
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: pathways that someone can go down, so many different routes
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: you can take if you are experiencing these symptoms. But
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: for someone who does choose to go the medication route,
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: I would really love if you could articulate a little
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: bit about what happens when someone goes on a medication
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: that would be treating seasonal depression or depression in general.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Sure, so, you know, I guess one thing I
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: highlight is that the medications don't work immediately, right, So
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: typically to see the maximum effect, we'll be looking at,
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: you know, around four weeks for example. Usually I tell Basis,
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: they'll start, you know, I would say to feel something
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: in about two weeks and then follow up and you know,
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: depending around that that phrase, like two to four weeks,
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: so that we can see how things are going on
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: the medication, because you it takes some time to sort
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: of just to it and see how you're feeling and
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: things like that. So just to keep that in mind.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: It's not a quick fix, but you will, you know,
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: start to feel better once the medication kicks in and
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: once you adjust to it generally if it's the right
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: medication for you. And then the other thing is is that,
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: as I was mentioning, you know, they don't have to
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: be a forever thing, especially with seasonal effective disorder like
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: that is something that can be treated seasonally and it
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: can be really helpful so that you don't lose some
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: progress with the wellness routines or you know, health goals
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: that you've been working towards, so that you can feel
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: productive and maybe excited about the winter as opposed to
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: the opposite. And I think that when you can start
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: to work with that a little bit more and sort
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: of reframing the use of medications in a positive way
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: to help your overall trajectory with your health in the
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: long run, it can feel more inviting and less stigmatizing
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: or like you don't have let's say, as much efficacy
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: because you are taking control of your health by taking medication, right,
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: And that's an important thing to recognize it doesn't mean
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: that you're not, you know, strong enough to overcome the
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: depression on your own. You are, you're strong enough with
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: using your resources, and that's an important thing because you don't,
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: you know, stand alone in life. You have a support
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: system and you know, whether that's medication, friends, family, you
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: know yourself as well, like all of those things have
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: to be used at different times and then that's how
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: you ultimately fill your cup.
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: Definitely.
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: So when someone begins taking a medication like this, you
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: told us that two to four week timeline, what is
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: happening in that time period?
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: What is the medication doing for you?
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So basically what happens is when you take these medications,
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: they change your NERD transmitters. So they change the way
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: that ner transmitters are being released at the synaptic left
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: between between neurons right and so really they actually are
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: changing these I woke levels of neurotransmitters in your brain. So,
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: for example, nor benephrin serotonin, as we've heard the names
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: of these medications, selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors for example, that's
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: the biggest class of drugs that are typically used, so
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: like lexapro or Selexa for example, prozac. You know, they
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: all fall into that category, and so you know they
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: do actually change some of the chemistry in your body
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: in terms of physically changing some things in your brain
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: and how your brain is responding to your behavior in
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: the environment by changing the levels of these neurotransmitters. But
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: ultimately it's augmenting what's already there, and so I think
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: that's something that's important to recognize that it's not like
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: it's manufacturing new neurotransmitters and it's some foreign substance in
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: that respect, it's just changing as the name says, it's
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: a reuptake inhibitor, so it's helping enhance what's already there.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: And I think that can help to also make it
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: feel a little bit more relatable in terms of what
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: the medication is actually doing, so it doesn't feel like
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: it's something foreign.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: Right, right.
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: And I know many individuals that have, as you noted,
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: gone off and medication and then years or even maybe
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: just a handful of months later, decided, Okay, I'm going
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: to go back on whether it be the same one
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: or try something different. Can you talk a little bit
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: about why individuals may make decisions like that, and if
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: there is any sort of protocol or things that we
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: should be aware of if you are considering going off
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: and then maybe eventually you decide it's time to go
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: back on.
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say first things first, I would definitely
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: talk to your doctor before you just stop taking it,
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: because tapering on and off the medications are important to
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: avoid adverse effects. So if you just stop it, either
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: you could have rebound symptoms in terms of the worsening
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: anxiety or depression symptoms for example, but also side effects,
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: so you know, for example, headache, lightheadedness, tingling, you know
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: that kind of thing. So I would say, I'm just
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: using some kind of common examples of things that people
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: might experience. Or there's one medication in particular that I've
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: had patients experience what they call or referred to as zapps,
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: like a kind of like almost like a zapp feeling,
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: an electric type of not like a shock, but you
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: know what I mean, like a very mild kind of feeling,
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: and that can be avoided by tapering off the medication,
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: you know, appropriately or correctly, as opposed to just self
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: discontinuing it with Sometimes people will do and it can
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: be something as simple as just reducing the dose by
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: half for two weeks and then you know, tapering off
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: and you avoid all that altogether. The biggest thing though,
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: really is just to make sure that you don't get
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: worsening anxiety or depression symptoms from immediately stopping the medication.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: And also I think that sometimes I can hinder building
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: confidence that you can come off the medication, which is
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: an important thing to try to protect again, so I
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: definitely try to protect against that by doing things slowly
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: and in a stepwise fashion where maybe you taper off
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: the medication in two months as opposed to in two weeks,
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: but you're tapering off, so you know what I mean,
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: The long term plan is the focus as opposed to
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: just like getting off the medication really quickly. So I
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: think it's just good to be intentional for a lot
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: of reasons for safety, of course, but then also for
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: building confidence in terms of feeling like, you know how
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: you feel on the medication off the medication and has
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: some control over.
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: That, right, right, And so then for someone who may
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: go off and then a year down the line they
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: have an experience that they wonder, is it time to
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: revisit this?
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: How do you know? How do you know if it's
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: time to revisit it.
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: And earlier you mentioned like if you're realizing that you
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: know you're not the best version of yourself, then the
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: cost benefit analysis is something that you need to kind
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: of evaluate. Right, So how does someone know if maybe
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: it's time to revisit Yeah, yeah, so, you.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: Know, I would say a couple of things. I think ultimately,
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: as we were talking about before, if things are starting
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: to impact your daily life or quality of life, that's
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: a big flag to say, Okay, you know, now maybe
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: time to talk to my doctor about, you know, how
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: severe my symptoms are. I also think that if you
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: start to have any severe symptoms, that's definitely a big flag.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: More severe things like want to hurt yourself or anything
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: like that, obviously that's a big flag. But I usually
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: would say when it starts to interfere with daily functioning
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: or activities of daily living, so like you know, you're
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: canceling social plans, you're not able to do your work
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: as well, you know, things like that, that's a really
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: clear indication that if your symptoms may be more than.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: Mild, got it, got it?
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: And for someone I know we've been talking about medication
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: for the last handful of minutes. But for someone who
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: is interested in trying to intervene in this in a
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: different way, can we talk about some habit formation or
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: things that we can be addressing or incorporating regularly that
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: might be able to help us lift the mood.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, so I would say I love having daily
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: movement routines. I think being physically active is one of
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: the best ways to naturally boost your mood. So I
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: definitely recommend that if you can get up and walk
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: in the morning, it's ideal. You'll get outside, you'll get
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: some vitamin D, you'll get you know, I would say
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: some good natural changes in your circadian rhythm and stability
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: in that by getting outside in the morning. And then
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: also I would say making sure that you have some
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: time for yourself, right so time to wind down at
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: the end of the day or at the beginning of
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: the day, whatever works for you. But having a little
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: bit of time where you can sort of be intentional,
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: set goals, unwind, and allow the stress from the day
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: to kind of dissipate.
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: Those things will actually go a long way with boosting mood. Yeah,
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: I really appreciate that as well. You know, a girlfriend
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: came to me feeling really burnt out a week or
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: two ago, and I asked her what she was doing
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: for it in terms of when she was taking time
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: for herself, and she couldn't articulate the last time that
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: she dedicated time like it was just as.
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: Though her wheels were spinning in the mud.
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: And so I challenged her that once a week, and
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: I mean, let's hope that we can find more than
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: once a week for thirty minutes.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: But I said, let's start small.
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: I would love next week let me know when you
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: were planning for thirty minutes of you time and what
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: that's going to look like.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: And she came back to me yesterday and said, I.
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: Want to thank you so much, like this has been
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: so impactful for me and I genuinely look forward to
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: this time block now something that I didn't have before.
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: And again, going to that idea of this is something
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: that's small but doable instills the confidence in you that, Okay,
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: if I can make this small change, then what else
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: is within my power moving forward?
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: Exactly exactly? And I think that's the biggest thing is
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: that I've said it a bunch of times now, but
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: feeling it empowered with your health or having that self
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: up efficacy really makes a big difference, right, And I
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: think that's something that can start to build sort of
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: like anxiety, and also the symptoms of depression is if
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: you feel a little bit out of control, and so
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: specifically for anxiety, feeling like you're taking the control back
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: a little bit, and that can be mixed in with
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: seasonal effective disorder. Right. There can be anxiety symptoms and
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: depression symptoms that tend to both surface at the same time.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: Often I feel like I oftentimes see pagies that present
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: with both symptoms, right, one more than the other. But
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: I think it's really important to feel like you have
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: control over that in terms of your health, but also
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: your schedule and just a little bit of what's going on,
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: because it's very easy for things to feel out of
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: control when they're changing fast and you know, maybe you
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: don't have control over your work schedule or the demands
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: during the day and things like that.
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and again when things are beyond your control with
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: the seasons and it getting dark out earlier, it just
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: feel like a lot. We talked about the timeline of
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: how long it might take to see a change if
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: you are using medication, but for someone who is working
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: to incorporate some of these other strategies that we spoke about,
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: the movement, the carving out time for self, maybe even journaling,
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: which we'll talk about in a moment. How long would
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: you recommend they go down this route before they say, okay,
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: is something else necessary here?
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah? So I think, you know, lifestyle modifications are complementary,
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: and alternative therapies can be great. I would say I
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: would give them, and even you know, cognitive behavioral therapy,
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: I would give give it some time in the sense
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: of it usually is not an immediate fix. It takes
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: at least a few weeks. Also, so depending on the
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: severity of symptoms, if there is room to try this
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: first where it feels comfortable and it feels right, then
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: I would give it a month.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: Give it a month, okay.
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: So there's also so much research that we've seen that
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: gratitude and a gratitude practice of sorts can really impact
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: overall move.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: And sense of well being.
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: Where do you stand on someone integrating that regularly and
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: can it really have as much of an impact as
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: we hear it does.
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I definitely think that having your gratitude
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: practice is a great idea, you know, whe or without
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: a seasonal effective disorder. And I would say this, I
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: think that without a doubt, there's a lot of data
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: and research to show that mindset is powerful. And so
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: having a positive mindset, being grateful for everything in your
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: life and recognizing that perspective where sometimes it just takes
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: a minute to kind of zoom out a little bit
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: and then everything falls back into place and it can
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: help kind of reset our mental focus. And it can
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: be very easy to kind of end up with blinders
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: on when we're going about the day. Things are really stressful,
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: There's a lot going on, you know, inside of work,
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: outside of work, in the house, outside of the house,
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: and so just taking a moment to kind of just
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: let everything settle and come back to what's really important
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: and can be really grounding.
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: What can a gratitude practice look like?
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so there are a lot of ways to do it.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: It can be something that's just internal within yourself. You
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: can say it kind of mentally, you can say it verbally,
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: you could write it down, you can share it with
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: a friend or family member. There are a lot of
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: ways to do it.
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: You know, I've kind of taken all of those approaches
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: over the years at different times. Right, And although my
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: most regularly used strategy is just one line a day
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: of something that I was grateful for over the twenty
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: four hours at the end of my journal entry in
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: the morning, I do find that there's something really special
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: about sharing that practice with someone else because then you
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: get also an accountability buddy. It's really promising, it feels
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: really fulfilling, and it's something to look forward to.
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I agree. There's also something very i would say,
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: not fun, but impactful about sharing something with someone else.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: It's like an accountability thing. It's it kind of invites
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: a recognition that you're doing the thing, whatever it is,
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: but also it gives a little bit of power behind
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: that recognition of the gratitude.
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: Now, as we start to wind down here a little bit,
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: I do want to talk a little bit about a
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: strategy that worked for me in the past when combating burnout.
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: And that is what all designate breaking the matrix.
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: So maybe I'm sitting at my desk, I'm realizing that
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: I'm not being as productive as I would like to be.
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: Things aren't really clicking for me, and so instead of
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: sitting here and staring at the eighteenth Google doc of
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: the day, I'll get up and I'll do something different
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: along the lines of that suggestion of breaking the matrix.
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: What else do you recommend that someone does to combat
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: significant burnout?
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so you know, this is actually a method that's
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: used for ADHD. But the Pomodoro method I think is great.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: It's essentially time blogging, right. So I think it's important
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: to build in mental breaks throughout the day because, as
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: I was saying before, to circle back to the beginning
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: of the podcast, we all have a finite amount of bandwidth, right,
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: and so at a certain point you do need a
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: little bit of break from that stimulation. So I think
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: it can be helpful to do that in many different ways,
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: sometimes taking real breaks where you aren't looking at a screen,
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: you're listening to a podcast or a song or something
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: you like for five minutes. Maybe it's taking a break
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: and going for a walk, even if you're on a
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: call at that time. It's a change of pace, a
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: change of energy, change an environment. But I do think
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: it's really important to have those mental and physical breaks
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: during the day so that your mind can reset.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: So, if you wanted to follow the Pomodoro method to
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: a t what would that exercise look like?
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so basically you would set periods of time where
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: you're working and then you'd have a built in break
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: there and you would say, okay, so I'll just give
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: an example. But like maybe you'd say you're gonna work
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: for twenty minutes and then you're gonna take a five
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: minute break, and you would not work for those five
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: minutes for example. Doing things like that can really really
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: help to break up the day a little bit, and
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: if you kind of know that a break is coming,
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: it'll actually make you more efficient in that time that
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: you have.
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, by time blocking my schedule, whether or
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: not I incorporate that five minute break after the twenty
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: minute to do period, I do feel like I have
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: a sense of accountability with myself, Like, no, this is
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: the time block that I plan to write this email,
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: or this is the time block that I plan to
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: research what I want to speak about with this guest,
• 41:35
  Speaker 3: for instance. And for me, it really does, yeah, keep
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: me accountable and keep me for the most part productive.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly same same. I trying to do it
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: as much as I can. Now.
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: I feel like more individuals are recognizing that they are
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: experiencing burnout or seasonal depression because it's something that we're
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: talking about more.
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: Is that something that you agree with?
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean, I think it's important also to recognize,
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: as you said, that these things are being more widely
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: recognized as normal and a certain respect. But are we
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: normalizing it? And is that a good thing? Right? So?
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: Are we all supposed to be burned out? I don't
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: think so, but it's definitely at least coming now into
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: the limelight where it's something to talk about and recognize.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: Is is this normal? Is this adding to my life
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: and the trajectory of where I want to be in
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: five years from now or not? You know? And I
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: think sometimes it's important to recognize that in terms of
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: like is this the path that I want to be on?
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: Question mark?
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: What an interesting question to pose? Is burnout just something
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: that is normal?
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: Now?
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: Am I supposed to be experiencing burnout?
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: But there's that wonderful phrase of like, don't confuse working
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: long hours worth working hard? Right? And so you know,
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: sometimes I think that it can be seen as kind
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: of like a badge of honor, especially when you're you know,
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: maybe work initially in the workforce, or you're working a
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: job that's you perceived as very challenging that you know,
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: you're burned out because you're very stressed, and you're stressed
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: because the job is hard, and so, you know, I
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: think there are a lot of type A personalities that
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: want to work hard and achieve, and so you're going
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: to constantly be trying to overachieve or you know, make
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: sure that you're working to your highest, highest level, and
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: that can create burnout. So I think it's important to
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: have some roadblocks in place to make sure that you're
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: not overdoing it and you're paying attention to those little
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: flags that are your body's way of saying, hey, I
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: need a little time for myself.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: Roadblocks in place.
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: So this goes back to setting aside time for yourself,
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: making sure that you're moving your body, and also perhaps
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: talking about your experience with friends and family exactly exactly
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: here to reiterate perfect. All right, Well this has been
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: so so helpful.
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: I'm curious. Have you experienced burnout, doctor Sharp?
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, that's why I transition to where I am
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: now in private practice.
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I would say there are a lot
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: of different ways to experience burnout. But I think it's
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: recognizing again sort of you know how the work that
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: you're doing every day is adding to where you want
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: to be and what your trajectory is overall in terms
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: of that work life balance, and if you find that
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: it's not serving you figuring out a path that is.
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: That's such great advice, and I really appreciate both all
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: of the insight that you offered us today and so
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: many helpful tips that we can integrate moving forward to
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: both combat burnout and then perhaps treat seasonal depression if
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: that's something that someone is going through now.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: For those that aren't following along with you, just yet
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: give us the information.
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: How can we keep up with you on social to
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: get more exciting tips moving forward?
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So you can find me at doctor Elizabeth Sharp
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: that's the Instagram handle, or at Health meets Wellness. You
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: can also visit our website or you can call the
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: office at nine one seven eight three three five two
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: three four five.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: Two three four amazing.
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: I'm over at Emily Badi and at Hurdle Podcast Another
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: Hurdle Concord.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: Catch you guys next time,