Latest / PNW Haunts & Homicides / Exploring the Esoteric: Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot

Transcript

Exploring the Esoteric: Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot · PNW Haunts & Homicides

0:00
Cheers, bitch!
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Episdoe 2 freaking hundred.
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We've done this 200 times!
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More than 200 times.
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More than 200 times.
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Yeah, because that's just our official episodes.
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We have bonuses and bonuses and again, good on other shows and holy shit.
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It's kind of like kind of hitting me now.
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Yeah.
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While 100 symbolizes success, 200 represents endurance.
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I’ll say.
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[Music]
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Don't try it yet.
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I just want to smell it!
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I just want to smell it.
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I just want to sniff it a little.
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I just want to sniff it.
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Hi, Caitlyn.
0:49
Hi, Cassie.
0:50
Hi, creepy people.
0:51
Hello!
0:52
This is PNW Haunts and Homicides.
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Where we chat about true crime, the paranormal,
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and all things spooky, creepy, and weird in the Pacific Northwest.
1:02
The PNW.
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If you're nasty.
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And you are.
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And you are.
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So are we.
1:09
All right, folks, you heard it here first.
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Cassie is the boss and it's been decided.
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We also do it here, reading at the end of every episode for a little bit of deeper insight into our topic.
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And today happens to be our 200 episode.
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Yay!
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Last episode we showed off this lovely Christmas present I got from my auntie.
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And yeah, we thought it would be a fun way to celebrate our 200th episode, you know,
1:38
with our faces on a freaking wine bottle.
1:40
How cool is that?
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Living the dream.
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I'm telling ya.
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Yeah, so we're gonna try it right now to celebrate it.
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We got a cheer.
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I'm so sniffing, okay?
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It actually smells really good.
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Okay.
1:53
Cheers, bitch.
1:54
I was like, "Two freaking hundred."
1:57
Two freaking hundred.
1:58
We've done this.
1:59
Two hundred?
2:01
More than 200, 200.
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Yeah, because that's just our official episodes.
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We have bonuses and bonuses and, oh my god, good on other shows and holy shit.
2:13
It's kind of, like, kind of hitting me now.
2:15
Yeah.
2:16
I know I, we knew it was coming and I think we both talked about trying to play on something
2:23
and what should we do?
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Because we're like, "Oh, it's a milestone."
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And then it's just now like, "Woo."
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Yeah.
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And our anniversary is coming up in May too.
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So we don't want to be like two celebratory, but...
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Yeah.
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It deserves some celebration.
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Celebration.
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Okay, let's try the short name.
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I like it.
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I take back everything I've ever said about chardonnay.
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I still have the same thoughts.
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This, however, tastes like an orange wine.
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Yeah.
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This is a really good...
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Okay.
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Let's see what it is.
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Yeah.
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So we're not usually fans of chardonnay.
3:01
But I was like, obviously, I'm going to try it because it was a gift and...
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Yeah.
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I feel like my aunt knows wine and she's not going to give me anything bad.
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So I trusted her.
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She would never.
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She would never.
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She would never.
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So this is Josh.
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Josh Cellars.
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Josh Cellars is written in Teeny Weenie.
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Yeah.
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So Josh Cellars, which I've had, I think I've had a different kind of this wine before.
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I think we've probably had on the pod a couple of different Josh Cellars wines, actually.
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And I don't know where she got...
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I assume she got the label through Josh Cellars?
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Because the label is...
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Oh, I don't know.
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Oh, you're right.
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I think we talked about it because it's like a full...
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Yeah.
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Sticker.
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Yeah.
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It's all one piece.
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So yeah, so it's a customized bottle that she ordered through them.
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Yeah.
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That makes...
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I want to go and look and see...
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Man, I want to order some more.
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I know, right?
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This is so cool.
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Okay.
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200.
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Oh my gosh.
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Do you know what that means?
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We've officially had to drink at least 200 bottles of wine together as well.
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Wow.
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That is pretty true.
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All right.
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Well, should we get started?
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Yeah.
4:13
So I'm going to do kind of like what we did for episode 100, if you guys remember, we kind
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of talk numbers a little bit.
4:20
Ooh.
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So not the whole thing.
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I was going to have like a little bit of numbers talk.
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And then I do have an actual haunted story for you.
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Ew.
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So, you know, like angel numbers and stuff.
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People talk about those where if you see this number over and over, this is what it means.
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So I was kind of looking into that.
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So I was like, what is the number 200 mean?
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And I found a Pinterest quote I want to start off with that I think is very cute and fun.
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I'm excited about that.
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And this is like one of the, you know, Pinterest quotes where it's like the pretty quote in the
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picture and whatever.
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I linked it if anyone is curious.
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I want to see it.
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So number 200 heralds a harmonious symphony in your life urging you to embrace balance and
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trust the unfolding divine plan.
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Oh, okay.
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This numerical sequence serves as a reminder that your dreams are taking root.
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And by staying grounded, you can manifest a reality filled with abundance and spiritual
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alignment.
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I hope so.
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Yeah.
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So she's like, that's kind of like the energy in the vibe of the number 200.
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I love that.
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So in general, 200 symbolizes abundance, wealth and success encourages you to trust your intuition
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and keep taking steps towards your goals because the universe is ready to open doors of abundance.
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I'm playing the lay.
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And I felt like if the number 200 were a poster, it would be like the hang in their cat.
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Like hang in there.
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It's coming.
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Yeah.
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Keep doing what you're doing.
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Oh, my gosh.
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Okay.
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That just made me think of it.
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That kind of has a little bit of a tie in for anybody watching Severance.
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Not going to say anything more, but the poster thing that you just said.
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I'm like, oh, I also had a thought was that poster in the office too?
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Yeah.
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I think it was.
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That's so funny because in the 100 episode, I did that quote from the office.
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Michael Scott.
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Yeah.
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You miss 60% of the shot or the 100% of the shot you don't take.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I'm getting it.
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I'm crossing wires here.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I see.
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Yeah.
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I see.
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Yeah.
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There's a person of the time it works every time.
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Exactly.
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Yeah.
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But ours was the 100.
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You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
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Yeah.
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Which is like a hockey player's boat.
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Yeah.
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Wayne Gretzky.
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Yeah.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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When I wrote that, I didn't even really have a connection there, but it totally connects
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with our 100th episode too.
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I love it.
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Okay.
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So we're going to break this number down like we did last time too.
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All right.
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So in numerology, two represents balance, cooperation and partnership, the scales, like
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Yin and Yang and Chinese culture, two has an empathetic, compassionate and creative energy.
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Oh my God.
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Connected to the moon and the element of water.
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Oh, which is, that's interesting.
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I don't remember last time if we talked about 100 being like connected to.
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Yeah.
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I plan it.
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Or that's 100 episodes.
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Right.
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I mean, my God.
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We didn't talk about a lot of other things in that episode too.
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So.
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Yeah.
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This was on numerologistpro.com and they say people with a number two energy gravitate
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towards career, set involved entertainment or helping others, which I have this interesting
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because I feel like we're doing both.
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Yeah.
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A little bit.
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Yeah.
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Hopefully we're helping people.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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You probably more so me, but I don't know.
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Sometimes you just need to hear a spooky story to get you through the day.
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Yeah.
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I mean, we can help and it doesn't always have to be in the same way.
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That's true.
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Yeah.
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I know.
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I've heard people say that we make them laugh too.
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So hopefully that helps.
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Is it because our faces are fun?
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It says too that they might find fulfillment in acting circus roles or stand up comedy.
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Which I feel like I feel like yeah, we're really we're threatened the needle circus on
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all of them.
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So Pacific.
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So Pacific.
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And we are hilarious.
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We just talked about that.
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Yeah.
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Obviously.
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Working in teams and being a part of the community brings them joy.
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So that's like the energy of two.
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Yeah.
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I feel like it's so us.
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And we did our birth chart thing for our business and we were like the Gemini.
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That's true.
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Yeah.
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Which normally, I don't know, Gemini always gives me I give it a little bit of a side
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eye, but now maybe maybe I have a different perspective.
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Yeah.
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It's just, you know, duality two sides, which is very us.
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I, yeah.
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Two heads, one brain.
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Basically, yeah, two genres, one show and zero, which we've have talked about before in
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episode 100.
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So I'm not going to like deep dive into it, but just as a refresher, it symbolizes new
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beginnings and endless possibilities.
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Zero also amplifies the energies of the surrounding numbers.
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Oh.
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And then this is interesting.
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So as an amplification of the number 20, 20 is associated with popularity and pursuing
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passions without lacking material.
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Well, so I'm like amplify that shit.
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Amplify it.
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Well 100 symbolizes success.
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200 represents endurance.
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Also, yeah, because it's like you, you get to the 100 and you're like, yeah, I'm there.
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We did 100.
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But then you got to do 100 more.
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Yeah.
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And 100 more.
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And so the fact that we made it another 100 is just like endurance.
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That is true endurance.
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It really, yeah, this is a, it's an intense team sport.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And there is a tarot card associated with it.
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It's the high priestess, which is of course number two.
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So that makes sense.
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Oh, okay.
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Yeah.
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Number two in the major arcana.
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And we actually pulled that one pretty recently and the moon card.
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I feel like my last two episodes, we like pulled the moon and the high priestess cards.
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I think you're right.
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Yeah.
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So interesting.
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One was a little snapshot of the future there.
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Let's keep open soul.
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But that card, the high priestess, you know, we just talked about it.
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So you guys might remember, but it represents a lot of the same things like duality balance
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and intuition.
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And even if it doesn't really mean anything, I mean, we're at our 200 episodes.
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So like that means a shit ton.
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It does.
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Like universally, if it doesn't really mean anything, yeah, we are still too pretty cool.
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Weird witchy chicks who fucking had no clue what they were doing 200 episodes ago.
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And somehow are still here.
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I know.
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And now it feels like we literally have 200 lights in our, I'm sorry, excuse me in our pod studio.
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Studio.
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What?
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It's crazy.
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We just talked about this last night.
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We started off in a trailer.
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Yeah.
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We did.
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With no video and no lights.
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Yeah.
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We did.
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Yeah.
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At one point, we actually tried recording with one microphone too.
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We did.
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It did not go well.
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Yeah.
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I do think that we should probably say a little special thanks to some people too.
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Because we didn't, we didn't get her alone.
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I mean, mostly alone, but not completely.
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So special thanks to.
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And Caitlin's husband, Chris, helping with a lot of our technological things, the lives
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was the major help the camera set up like all of it.
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I've been thinking about that that it's like, oh man, it's time for us to probably think
12:26
about doing another live.
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And I'm like, oh dear God, it's so much work.
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I know, especially with all this new stuff, like we just, I know we can do it.
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We just need to figure it out.
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And it's going to be a minute.
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Yeah.
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It's, it's very intense.
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So obviously special thanks to Taylyn, who does our social media and the videos for YouTube.
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And it inserts a lot of really funny stuff that we were cracking up about this morning.
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I know one of these days, the only way this show is going to stop is because I died laughing
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at something that Taylyn did with like a clip or I don't even have words.
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Yeah.
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Chris was like, it takes a lot.
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To get like that much of a reaction out of him.
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Yeah, that was, yeah.
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So it was a laugh.
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It was like a, I was like, how do I describe that?
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It sounds weird to say he, he fully laughed out loud, but like he did.
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He did.
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And out loud.
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Out loud.
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Out loud.
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Out loud.
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Oh my gosh.
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I was looking up.
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That was episode 197 that there's a funny, funny in the video.
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So I know there's a funny little insert of sound in the audio version.
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If you're listening like on Spotify or whatever, but on the Patreon.
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And it sounds like we're going to make that go a little bit wider that funny little clip.
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So it's a combination of animal sounds and it's always sunny.
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And I don't know.
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I don't know if anyone noticed or if we've talked about this before because I still edit
14:06
the audio part.
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So it's always a little different.
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So if you've listened to the audio and you're curious and still want to watch the video,
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it's kind of like a different experience.
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It's the same story, obviously, but there's inserts, funny stuff.
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And she edits, she leaves things in the eye, take out and vice versa.
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Like they're just a little bit different.
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Yeah.
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I think as much as obviously we started as, you know, audio is the primary medium.
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There are certain things where it's like now that we have help and we're kind of expanding
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on platforms.
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There's so many things that we would have cut out for audio only that now it's like, oh,
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this is so cool.
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We can leave this in for YouTube or make a little clip for social media.
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Yeah.
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People can actually see because there's so many funny or just like, whoa, things that happen.
15:04
But it just doesn't hit the same as audio only.
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Right.
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Sometimes you have to see it and things won't translate in audio, especially for like showing
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something and then not describing it, which is exactly.
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Sometimes we have a problem about it.
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And that was an oil.
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All right.
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So I wanted to do a tarot poll for just our 200th episode in general.
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And we this morning went somewhere and ended up purchasing a new tarot deck.
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I know.
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I go there all the time and I always go and I browse and they've got crystals and all kinds
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of fun goodies.
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And I've seen a lot of things that I thought would be kind of cool for us to play with or
15:50
to have on our shelves.
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But this was like, we got to have it.
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We hate to have it.
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Got to have it.
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Haste to.
16:00
Because we don't have one.
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We don't.
16:02
Yeah.
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I mean, we do know.
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We do now.
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So let's show.
16:06
Okay.
16:07
We should say we did kind of a crazy thing that we've never done before.
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So like up to 100.
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Who knows what's going to happen next?
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No one knows.
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We decided to just stop in the middle of our recording and scrap what Cassie had researched
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because it was not nearly as interesting as the new Thoth Tarot, that tarot deck that
16:31
we got that we initially started like, Hey, how do you pronounce this?
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And then we started researching just things come up and we're like, man, this is interesting.
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Maybe we need to stop research the Thoth deck and like come to you with some info about
16:45
that.
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Do a tarot reading with it.
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And that's the episode and save Cassie's research for next time.
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Here we are and we did it and we did the damn thing weird in real time.
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Yes, it was very strange.
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Okay.
17:03
Are you ready for?
17:05
Are you ready for that?
17:06
I'm so ready.
17:07
I'm so interested.
17:08
All right.
17:09
Well, as advertised, this is hardly going to be a deep dive.
17:16
Right.
17:17
Yes.
17:18
Very surface level stuff.
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But it did spark.
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I feel like some inspiration for maybe future episodes or all the dives and yeah, absolutely,
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absolutely.
17:29
We will be back.
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And we can't say when we're not really ready to like commit.
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But Edward Alexander Crowley, also known as Aleister Crowley, was born to a wealthy and
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devout evangelical Christian family on October 12th, 1875 in Royal Lamington Spa.
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Spa.
17:56
Spa.
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Spa.
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It's a spa town in Warwickshire, England, which is something that I had to look up.
18:05
But it's quite literally what I thought it sounded like.
18:10
A spa town.
18:11
A spa town.
18:13
A spa is a location where mineral, rich spring water, sometimes sea water, is used to give
18:20
medicinal box.
18:22
Oh, okay.
18:25
Very fancy pans, energy here already.
18:30
He was sent to prestigious prep schools and no doubt lived a very charmed life at least
18:36
for a time from an outside perspective.
18:39
I come from a spa town.
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A spa town.
18:43
It's just so interesting.
18:45
It's very locked to you down.
18:47
You want to live in a spa?
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Honestly, yeah.
18:51
And I feel like we kind of briefly touched on that feels very fancy, but also I feel like
18:57
there are some low key ties to the occult.
19:01
Weird.
19:02
If anyone knows anything about Aleister Crowley.
19:07
Yeah, which it won't be hard to outdo us in terms of knowledge about Aleister Crowley
19:14
at this point.
19:15
But it is also very interesting that he came from like such a religious, like evangelical
19:21
Christian family.
19:22
I don't think I knew that part of it.
19:25
Very religious, but also the money upbringing is very, I mean, it makes sense.
19:32
He's pretty entitled.
19:34
He gives an entitled five.
19:36
Well, that.
19:37
Well, but his father's passing was said to have marked a decided turning point in his
19:42
young life.
19:44
Despite his immense privilege, he began exhibiting behavioral issues at school before being
19:50
removed.
19:51
And at the same time was said to have been plagued by an extremely unusual health issue.
19:59
albuminuria.
20:02
I think we're going to look that up.
20:06
I intended to, but I feel like I looked at it and I said, aluminum.
20:13
That's what I thought you were saying.
20:16
albuminuria. is often asymptomatic, but in some cases may cause a whitish foam to appear
20:25
in a sufferer's urine.
20:28
Ooh.
20:29
Like peat like bubbles in his pee.
20:33
Uh huh.
20:34
Like a, like a, your pee and a beer out.
20:37
Right.
20:38
Like you're foaming at the mouth as if one were rabid, but it, uh, at the mouth of your dick,
20:44
if you will.
20:46
Yum.
20:49
They may even develop swelling in some of their extremities amongst other even rarer side
20:54
effects.
20:55
But in other news, unrelated to what was coming out of the tip of his penis.
21:00
Yes, let's move on.
21:02
It has been said that he went against the Christian morality of his upbringing by smoking, Mr. Bid.
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And having sex with sex workers from whom he would contract gonorrhea.
21:17
Damn.
21:18
On top of his foamy peepee dick.
21:20
I know.
21:21
Which sounds like an STD in and of itself, but it is not.
21:27
I mean, that sucks that he had, like some condition.
21:31
Those are tough times.
21:32
Yeah.
21:33
But the one he contracted, I mean, that'll happen.
21:36
Yeah.
21:37
Yeah.
21:38
You know, listen, hey, if you, if you play the field long enough and aggressively enough, it'll
21:43
find you.
21:44
Right.
21:45
Which I, I don't think there's anything wrong with.
21:47
No, I think it's a natural part of, unfortunately, if you're not having protected sex, that's, you
21:53
know, sort of the, that's, uh, you pay to play.
21:58
And this was as it were back in the day, too.
22:00
Oh, man, in the day, not present times.
22:03
Correct.
22:04
Yeah.
22:05
Although same rules apply.
22:06
Yes.
22:07
Rapid before you tap it.
22:08
Yeah.
22:09
Yeah.
22:10
He did go on to receive his education from Trinity College at the University of Cambridge.
22:16
Oh.
22:17
Where's that at?
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England.
22:20
England.
22:21
Yeah.
22:22
Okay.
22:23
A fancy place.
22:24
Fancy.
22:25
It was during this time that he was said to have adopted the name Aleister.
22:29
Hmm.
22:30
So that's not his real name.
22:31
Right.
22:32
What does his real name have?
22:33
It feels like kind of a mashup of his real name.
22:38
It is Edward Alexander.
22:40
So Aleister kind of feels like if you just like mushed him a little bit.
22:45
But like cooler.
22:46
But like cooler.
22:47
I wonder how I just like wonder how he came up with that, you know?
22:51
Yeah.
22:52
You know, and I didn't come across so far anything that indicates like what's the genesis
23:00
of this, but there might be info out there.
23:03
We'll deep dive on it sometime in the future.
23:05
Guaranteed.
23:06
Guaranteed.
23:07
From there, he became not only a poet, novelist and mountaineer, but additionally an English
23:16
occultist and ceremonial magician.
23:20
Oh, does the ceremonial magician mean it's not like magic, right?
23:27
It's like magic as we think of it like spells and stuff.
23:30
It's not like I mean magician.
23:33
What am I magician?
23:34
Right.
23:35
Doesn't that mean like a flight of hand like unclear?
23:40
Unclear.
23:41
I'm not prepared to provide you more information about the nature of the ceremonial magic.
23:48
Because ceremonial makes me think of it as like a like you're doing like a spell or something.
23:55
Something very formal, not just like cutting a woman in half.
23:59
That's fair.
24:00
Okay.
24:01
Yeah.
24:02
I have to say that I would probably agree with that interpretation based on the facts and
24:08
but again, you know, for a future deep dive, he was also purportedly a very accomplished
24:15
chess player.
24:17
At one time, having considered having a go as a professional, which is we agree the most
24:25
privileged, rich, white man career choice that one could make.
24:32
Until.
24:33
Until then he continues to make increasingly privileged white man choices.
24:37
But you can because he has a privilege white man.
24:40
That is his privilege must be nice.
24:46
People biographers have pointed to a significant experience often described as mystical in nature
24:53
that led him to recognizing his bisexuality while in Stockholm in December of 1896.
25:01
Hey, get it.
25:03
Unlimited.
25:04
Unlimited.
25:05
Unlimited.
25:06
Unlimited.
25:07
Who has it?
25:08
You know, 1896 in Stockholm.
25:09
Am I right?
25:10
Those were the days.
25:13
Yeah.
25:14
All the little gay there.
25:17
Maybe.
25:18
I mean, in my mind, we're all a little gay all the time everywhere.
25:22
But she's like, as someone who's already a little queer, I just assumed that y'all are
25:27
on the same page.
25:28
If you're not, I don't get it.
25:30
I don't.
25:31
You don't get it.
25:33
Yeah.
25:35
I can understand that.
25:36
I feel like there's so much about any aspect of lived human experience that you're like,
25:41
I just assumed everyone was doing it the way I was doing it.
25:46
While he continued his education at Cambridge, he maintained a very active sex life, primarily
25:54
with female sex workers, eventually contracting syphilis.
25:59
Oh, shit.
26:00
He got gonorrhea before and now syphilis.
26:03
Yeah.
26:04
Dang.
26:05
Yeah.
26:06
Yeah.
26:07
Yeah.
26:08
Yeah.
26:09
Never mind you that he has a privileged, wealthy white man.
26:13
That's true.
26:14
Okay.
26:15
Yeah.
26:16
It makes sense.
26:17
Yeah.
26:18
Does that help?
26:19
Okay.
26:20
Okay.
26:21
Thank you.
26:22
Glad to be here to help.
26:23
Despite same sex relations being illegal at the time, he would partake and enter into a relationship
26:28
with Herbert Charles Pollitt.
26:32
Oh.
26:33
I have decided it is Pollitt because it seems like it could be French in origin.
26:39
But there's a lot of elves and a lot of teas and I, hmm, that's what I've decided.
26:47
It's called Herbert Charles.
26:49
Charles.
26:51
Though the pair with later split do in large part to Pollitt's disinterest in Western esotericism,
27:00
much to Crowley's regret.
27:01
Both his disinterest and then also the breakup.
27:04
Oh.
27:05
A lot of regret about more than one thing for Crowley's.
27:08
I don't know what are you going to do?
27:10
In 1904, he married Rose Edith Kelly and the pair Honeymoon in Egypt, where he wrote his
27:18
now infamous "The Book of the Law," which is not studied in law school to this day.
27:26
What is it?
27:27
What is it the law of?
27:28
The icing on the cake was that his new book would become the basis of a new religion.
27:35
He went on to establish known as "Thelema," for which he was of course self-appointed as prophet.
27:43
Of course.
27:44
Who else would be prophet?
27:47
Jesus.
27:48
Jesus.
27:49
Jesus.
27:50
It's interesting that you would just call it the book of the law.
27:56
Like why wouldn't you say the law of something?
27:59
Thelema.
28:00
Thelema.
28:01
Like Thelema, Thelema.
28:02
The book of the law is so generic.
28:05
I don't know.
28:06
Maybe that's what he was going for.
28:07
Maybe someone will pick this up not knowing what it is.
28:10
It's the book of the law.
28:11
What law?
28:12
I don't know.
28:13
Not interested in sharing that with you.
28:15
I wish we would just pick it up and read it and find out.
28:18
You just need to be specific in your titles.
28:21
I don't know.
28:22
Do you?
28:23
Also, it feels like it's worth noting.
28:27
Finally, you've contracted conceivably almost every sexually transmitted disease on God's
28:34
green earth.
28:35
And now, you are indeed ready to settle down with your, with your bride.
28:41
I'm ready to be committed to one person.
28:46
I think we will learn is actually, factually inaccurate.
28:50
Right.
28:51
But again, this is not a deep dive.
28:53
I can't imagine someone who see, okay, I don't want to diagnose because I'm not a doctor,
28:58
but it seems like he might have had like a sexual addiction.
29:01
All of the prostitute, it just seems like it.
29:04
I mean, it definitely seems like there's something spicy going on in that brain.
29:08
Yeah.
29:09
As we discussed, off my previously, as we were researching, I think there's a combination
29:15
of, I think we got sort of an error 404 situation going on in certain parts of the brain
29:23
here.
29:24
I don't know.
29:25
I can't imagine he was totally faithful, but I don't know.
29:29
I can't imagine either because as it happens, it doesn't, the historical texts don't seem
29:36
to support that.
29:38
It seems that tracks.
29:40
Yeah, I'm not going to get into it right now.
29:44
What I am going to tell you is that eventually, Thelemite groups were established abroad
29:50
as far as Australia and parts of North America.
29:54
I'm interested to know how he got people on board with him.
29:57
You know, I have a lot of follow up questions as well.
30:00
It's the law.
30:01
It's the law.
30:05
Doing no small part to his copious intake of hashish, Alistair's life became increasingly
30:12
bizarre and mystical.
30:15
Notably at this time, his inheritance was reportedly dwindling.
30:19
I mean, if he's, if his life is her expensive y'all, well, it's like, yeah, and his life
30:26
ambitions were like to be a chess player or like what it was the other thing.
30:31
I think that's the only true professional ambition that he's expressed at this point.
30:38
There doesn't seem to be a career making money here.
30:40
Yeah.
30:41
That's what I'm seeing.
30:42
Yeah.
30:43
A little bit, a little bit.
30:45
We're going to wrap up here.
30:47
He was a complicated human that has fascinated generations, even given what have been interpreted
30:54
and fairly so problematic and at times, appropriative behavior.
31:00
By the time World War II rolled around, he was said to have begun working to infiltrate
31:06
German forces in order to assist British intelligence.
31:11
So very interesting.
31:13
He's also like moon lighting as a spy.
31:16
I could give him the, it's he just doing this on his own.
31:19
Was he working for the military?
31:21
Like, who gave him the okay to go do this?
31:24
And clear.
31:25
Unclear.
31:26
Definitely a thread that I would like to pull at.
31:29
Yes, please.
31:30
That is it.
31:31
What?
31:32
Yeah.
31:33
Yeah.
31:34
Wow.
31:35
Before his death in December of 1947, not long after the end of World War II, which as we've
31:42
established is my Roman Empire, Crowley became an expliquibly linked with all things asotaric,
31:51
spiritual and otherwise.
31:54
Woo-woo.
31:55
Oh.
31:56
Very, very associated with like a cult thing, too.
31:59
Yes.
32:00
Yeah.
32:01
Yeah, a cult was a good word.
32:02
Could have used that.
32:03
Decided.
32:04
I would.
32:05
You said it previously.
32:06
Yeah.
32:07
But I just wanted to drive home kind of the the occultness of it because it's going to come
32:12
up and what I'm going to talk about here in a second.
32:15
That's fair.
32:17
So obviously he had a hand in creating the Thoth, Thoth.
32:23
Thoth.
32:24
Thoth.
32:25
Thoth.
32:26
I think we decide we we did listen to a lot of videos and a lot of pronunciations and we
32:33
found a video from a museum.
32:35
It was like an Egyptian museum.
32:37
Yes.
32:38
And it said, appeared to be the the informational voice over the museum stuff said, Thoth.
32:46
So.
32:47
That's what we're going to go with because we've heard those we've heard taught.
32:52
We've heard tote in all different types.
32:56
Basically any possible phonetic pronunciation based on any language that has ever existed,
33:05
there are so many iterations of this and it is from what I gather hotly debated.
33:12
Yeah.
33:13
Didn't it say like something about we actually don't know how the Egyptians pronounce things
33:18
that that is something that I came across where it does not appear that there is a consensus.
33:25
I'm really interested to look into that further.
33:28
Yeah.
33:29
And we spent a fairly exhaustive amount of time looking into that pronunciation alone,
33:39
which is why Aleister Crowley is receiving somewhat of a deep dive or a shallow dive I should
33:45
say today.
33:46
Yeah, definitely inspired the need to look into all this stuff further.
33:52
Yeah.
33:53
Because it's just fascinating.
33:54
Well, there's just so there's just so many questions.
33:57
And I guess we did we should probably start off by saying, Thoth is an Egyptian god.
34:02
Yes.
34:03
So that's like where the name comes from.
34:06
And this Thoth deck was essentially the book of the law in tarot card form.
34:13
So which is kind of crazy.
34:15
That is crazy.
34:16
I had no idea.
34:17
So we're about to do a reading with the book of the law.
34:21
The book of the law.
34:23
It uses the same basis as the writer wait Smith deck.
34:27
But yeah, which came first.
34:30
We'll talk about that next.
34:32
But this deck is more explicit in esoteric than the Rider–Waite–Smith deck.
34:38
See and to me that those two terms seem almost conflicting because esoteric implies that
34:46
it's a little bit more mystical and almost unknowable.
34:49
Whereas explicit is like, I think explicit in the art, the art.
34:53
Like, the art is explicit.
34:56
Yeah, I guess explicit does have a multiple meaning.
34:59
Yeah.
35:00
Okay.
35:01
Well, I'm glad that you say that though.
35:02
And it makes sense based on the handful of cards that we've reviewed.
35:07
Yeah.
35:08
So I think, I mean, I think so.
35:10
There's like boobies and shit in the, yeah.
35:14
So maybe they don't, maybe they do mean more straightforward because there's something
35:17
a little bit later.
35:18
We'll get to that.
35:19
We'll get to it in a second.
35:21
Okay.
35:22
But so I just wanted to go over.
35:24
So the writer wait Smith deck was first.
35:28
They created that 1909.
35:31
Okay.
35:33
And it was created by wait was the, I don't know his first name, I didn't write it down.
35:39
But wait.
35:40
Want me to look?
35:41
Yeah, very fine.
35:42
Okay.
35:43
Wait was the author of the interpretations basically.
35:47
Okay.
35:48
Pamela Coleman Smith did the artwork.
35:50
Yes.
35:51
Writer was just the publisher.
35:52
They literally had nothing to do with any of the art or the writings.
35:59
They literally were just the publisher.
36:01
So it's funny that their name is first.
36:03
That's so wild to me.
36:05
Yeah.
36:06
And I know there's a lot of kind of, I don't know, there's hot takes, I guess, for lack of
36:11
a better term about, you know, wow, some of the, you know, the credit is unequal.
36:17
Yeah.
36:18
And I knew, you know, that it was a split in terms of, it was a collaborative effort to
36:25
create the deck.
36:27
I may have known at some point and I've simply forgotten since, but the fact about the publisher
36:33
is right.
36:34
That's mind blowing.
36:35
And it was originally just the writer wait deck.
36:39
Like they didn't even include Pamela Coleman Smith.
36:41
That is the piece, which is like very upsetting.
36:44
And that is the piece that I know has created so much controversy around the writer wait.
36:51
And we're going to call it Rider–Waite–Smith as I think I would call it Waite–Smith–Rider
36:56
to be honest with you.
36:57
That's what I would call it.
36:59
Yeah.
37:00
That is wild.
37:01
Yeah.
37:02
So yeah, she came up with a, like, she did all of the artwork and then, you know, she added,
37:08
I think her little signature and all of the, the, they're all hidden on each card.
37:14
And so yeah, she had a huge hand in that.
37:17
But this deck was developed by members of the order of the Golden Dawn.
37:22
So they were all members of the order of the Golden Dawn.
37:24
I don't know about writer because that was the, yeah, that's the publisher.
37:28
Yeah, that's the part I'm not going to assume but that.
37:31
Wait and Smith were.
37:33
But also, probably was a part of the member of the Golden Dawn for a little while.
37:38
And he broke away to create his own religion.
37:42
I forget.
37:43
Thelema.
37:44
Thelema.
37:45
I always, I think of Thelemites is the word that I know.
37:48
So Thelema.
37:49
Yeah.
37:50
So he broke away, created his own religion where he was the prophet.
37:56
It's fine.
37:57
We all should do this, you know?
38:00
It's only the soft deck was created.
38:03
It started being created before Aleister Crowley passed away.
38:07
It was like 1938 to like early 40s.
38:10
Okay.
38:11
Where it was created, but it wasn't actually printed until he passed away.
38:15
Interesting.
38:16
So that is a long ass time.
38:18
Yeah.
38:19
I feel like he was kind of working on that.
38:21
My feeling was because he was like running out of money.
38:24
He needed things to sell and to do.
38:27
So I feel like he was kind of working on that but he ended up passing away.
38:32
I don't know.
38:34
Working on his German spy career.
38:37
Yeah.
38:38
Wow.
38:39
That's why it's kind of interesting that they still went forward and printed it after
38:46
his death and he was the one who created this religion and this tarot deck to go with his
38:52
religion.
38:53
And it just, yeah.
38:54
But if you think about it, I mean, his estate, whatever that consists of and then anybody
39:00
else that's involved with this creative project, there's still, this is intellectual property
39:06
that they still all stand to benefit in some dorm or fashion from.
39:11
So it's like on the face of it, you're like, why did you still publish a feedard?
39:15
But, but if all the work was done, yeah, because, yeah, the bill, y'all.
39:22
And the artist for this deck was a Frieda Harris.
39:26
Yes.
39:27
And I want to read a, just a small quote from the little interpretation book from Frieda.
39:32
Yeah.
39:33
Read a little, read a little Frieda.
39:35
Read a little from Frieda.
39:37
There's a little section in here in the interpretation book that came with the tarot
39:42
deck, the remarkable series of surrealistic tarot paintings prepared by Lady Frieda Harris
39:49
under the guidance of Aleister Crowley, a test both to Lady Harris's unique art talent
39:56
and her patience and ability to work with a demanding mentor.
40:00
Ah, yes.
40:02
I thought that was interesting.
40:04
They put that in the book, which was printed after his death.
40:07
So I have to imagine he did not approve of that being in there, but who knows?
40:11
I mean, but also who cares?
40:13
But I can't imagine working under him like how hard just to even get this artwork approved,
40:22
how hard that would have been.
40:24
Like how much mansplaining did she have to endure?
40:30
The mansplaining.
40:32
I can't.
40:33
But it is his, it is based off of his religion that he wrote.
40:38
So I mean, I'm sure he had a lot of.
40:40
He had created and then ripped off the tarot deck from somebody else and just like inserted
40:44
his own stuff in there.
40:46
It's fine.
40:47
Yeah.
40:48
With a lot of appropriated cultural ethnocentric ideals and principles and iconography and so many
40:59
things.
41:00
So many things.
41:03
The whole Egyptian thing, I kind of didn't quite, I don't think I knew or really associated.
41:09
So it made me think of the Oculus Anubis episode where we were like, why is Egypt like
41:15
bad?
41:16
What is this?
41:17
Well, and here's the thing, I think it goes back to at a certain point in history and
41:22
stop me if you're literally about to say this.
41:25
But I think there was a certain point in history where the Western world became obsessed with
41:35
all things Egypt because it's culturally so different from a lot of her customs.
41:41
Beautiful.
41:42
And yes.
41:43
And so so fascinating and such a rich and beautiful culture and the artistry.
41:52
This is why people literally bought things like mummy powder.
42:00
Holy shit, I wasn't prepared to do a dissertation on mummy powder, but it is exactly what it sounds
42:09
like.
42:10
Did they just like dust off a money and a mummy and just a jar?
42:14
It does.
42:15
It's not, it's not the dust off of a mummy.
42:19
It is literally mummy dust.
42:21
No.
42:22
Assuming that you had an even somewhat reputable seller.
42:27
Yes.
42:28
Something where you're consuming someone, whoa.
42:32
That's crazy.
42:33
Yes.
42:34
I didn't know about that.
42:35
Yes.
42:36
That's gross.
42:37
It's very gross for a lot of reasons.
42:39
Also, I think the least of which is cannibalism.
42:42
Oh, no.
42:43
Do people eat it?
42:46
Yeah.
42:48
Why?
42:49
Yes.
42:50
Again, like I said, not prepared to do a full dissertation on mummy powder.
42:57
We can revisit.
43:01
As I recall, a number of reasons that were cited for, I need to close with the purchase
43:07
and consumption of mummy powder.
43:09
This is a real thing.
43:10
Yeah.
43:11
What?
43:12
We can come back to that.
43:13
I was not prepared to learn that today.
43:15
I know.
43:16
And honestly, I didn't think that that was going to come up somehow, but of course, but of
43:21
course, it would.
43:22
I just kind of, I was prepared to blame all of the Egypt Occult Association on Aleister
43:29
Crowley because he went to Egypt on his honeymoon.
43:33
He used a very strong Egyptian imagery, influence in the tarot deck and everything he did.
43:42
And he was associated with the occult, too.
43:44
Right.
43:45
I feel like his--
43:46
He's created that.
43:47
It was like a melting pot of--
43:48
Right.
43:49
He's created that blanket.
43:50
Yeah.
43:51
Yeah.
43:52
So I think, I mean, I can't--
43:56
It's hard to say that any one person who's responsible for something that is so profound,
44:03
but I think it would be hard to divorce the linkage that he created and say, no, it's
44:11
because of this, I think.
44:14
And I think he's like the biggest-- if one of the biggest-- if not the biggest-- influence
44:19
in occult practices.
44:21
So certainly, yeah, very big name.
44:24
So the fact that he just stole all of this Egyptian, I say stole.
44:29
He stole it.
44:30
I mean, yeah.
44:31
It's hard to-- it's hard to put that a different way.
44:36
Yeah.
44:37
Find him on Red Pill Reddit.
44:39
So we're just like connecting other episodes.
44:42
And wow.
44:43
Yeah, I just didn't-- I really didn't even think about that connection there.
44:47
But that's when I come from.
44:50
And then-- so we're going to talk about some of the differences.
44:53
And there's not very many differences.
44:56
And--
44:57
Yeah, they are strikingly similar.
44:59
Yeah, the Rider–Waite–Smith the Waite–Smith–Rider Deck, and the Thoth tarot
45:04
deck.
45:05
But there are some differences.
45:08
I want to talk about first though, we were going through the deck.
45:10
And I found this card.
45:12
Mm.
45:13
And this is the backs of the cards, right?
45:15
That's the back of every other card.
45:18
Every other card.
45:19
And then all the other cards have a number and a name and all the normal things associated.
45:26
This one didn't.
45:27
It was just a symbol.
45:28
So I was like, what the fuck is that?
45:30
What is this?
45:31
And I tried to Google Image Search it on my computer.
45:35
And I took a photo on my phone.
45:37
And I sent it to my computer.
45:38
Did the Google Image Search on Chrome?
45:41
And it was like, whoops, something went wrong.
45:43
It would not search it.
45:44
So I was like, well, I'll send it to Caitlyn.
45:46
She did it on Safari, right?
45:48
Did it on Safari?
45:49
It was still a Google Image Search.
45:52
But it was on Safari.
45:54
And I'm--
45:55
But it worked.
45:56
I'm not saying the Apple is better.
45:57
I'm just saying one of us got a result.
46:00
And one of us was using the Apple.
46:02
Yeah.
46:03
It's just weird.
46:04
And I have Chrome and Google on my--
46:05
We're using an Apple device.
46:07
Yeah.
46:08
So I don't--
46:09
Listen, who am I to say why things work the way they do?
46:12
But you have to have Chrome and Safari because sometimes things won't work on one another.
46:17
So I didn't-- anyway.
46:18
So walked on Safari.
46:20
I don't know why it didn't work on Chrome.
46:22
That's just weird.
46:23
Because I've done it before, for sure, with a photo from my phone.
46:26
Absolutely.
46:27
So I don't know.
46:28
I thought maybe it was like the .heic tag at the end.
46:33
I don't know what that's called.
46:34
Yeah, but the file--
46:35
It wasn't a JPEG.
46:36
So I don't know.
46:37
But I feel like it's worked before.
46:39
Anyway, it wasn't giving me anything.
46:43
We're looking really weird.
46:45
I was like, something doesn't want us to know.
46:48
But it ended up working.
46:49
And we found out that it is a six-pointed star.
46:54
Like a different version of a star.
46:56
It doesn't really look like a normal star.
46:59
Yeah, it doesn't look like a star.
47:01
It almost seems like a star in an Indenity symbol hybrid.
47:07
Yeah.
47:08
It's like two inverted triangles together.
47:12
Almost like--
47:14
There's a lot of triangles potentially.
47:17
But yeah.
47:19
Anyway.
47:21
So a six-pointed star originated
47:24
with the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn.
47:27
Well, what?
47:28
So he stole something else.
47:31
You don't say.
47:33
So he took this and then put his five-pedal flower
47:38
in the center to represent a pentagram.
47:42
Interesting.
47:42
Yes.
47:44
And we didn't deep dive on why I just
47:48
wanted to go over what that little symbol was.
47:50
Maybe we'll deep dive on it at another point.
47:53
But I thought that was interesting.
47:55
I was like, what is this thing?
47:57
It was just--
47:58
It's very strange.
48:00
Yeah.
48:01
And to be honest, I think sometimes,
48:03
especially with something that's like a cult or esoteric
48:07
like this, the iconography, like the imagery of it
48:11
can be really illuminating.
48:14
Yeah.
48:16
Mm-hmm.
48:18
And I did say-- I did skip a little paragraph.
48:21
I did say earlier we would talk about this.
48:22
So some people think even though this deck is more esoteric,
48:27
they tend to think the thought tarot is more accessible
48:30
and more straightforward than traditional tarot.
48:34
So like sometimes traditional tarot
48:35
has kind of like got mixed messages.
48:38
You kind of have to interpret what it means.
48:40
Yeah.
48:41
This deck, some people think, is just more
48:43
straight to the point.
48:45
I don't know if that's true.
48:46
That's just some people's opinion.
48:48
I'm very curious to find out.
48:50
I'm excited to use it.
48:52
I am as well.
48:53
Yeah.
48:54
I think I was aware a little bit of sort of a controversy
48:59
between the two decks.
49:01
But we have learned so much.
49:04
I can't believe it's taken us to literally the day of episode
49:09
200 to be like, listen, I just want to know more.
49:14
And the stars aligned.
49:17
Yeah, they totally did.
49:18
Because we didn't know we were going to buy this tarot deck
49:21
today.
49:22
Like--
49:23
No.
49:23
We're kind of a fly by the seat of your pants type of pod.
49:28
At times, yeah.
49:30
I mean, with certain things.
49:32
And honestly, I have been to this establishment so many times.
49:38
And I've not seen that deck there before.
49:40
I might have seen other iterations of a thos tarot deck there.
49:47
But I've not seen this one.
49:49
And we were sort of himming and hawing too.
49:53
We bought the massively large in terms of card size.
49:58
Yes.
49:59
I'm a deck.
50:01
Because we thought the other one didn't come with an interpretation
50:05
deck.
50:07
But I think probably both of them did.
50:10
And we fucked up when we bought the massive one.
50:13
But here we are.
50:14
Here we are.
50:15
Here we are.
50:15
They're very flexible.
50:16
They're very flexible, easy to shuffle for me cars.
50:19
Because my hands are a little bit bigger.
50:21
A little bit.
50:21
Yeah.
50:22
We can watch Caitlyn try.
50:23
But I don't think we should.
50:25
I don't think we should.
50:26
OK, so let's go over the differences
50:28
between the two decks real quick.
50:30
Yeah.
50:31
So in the weight Smith Rider deck--
50:36
Look at you, I see.
50:37
Your wheels turning about this.
50:39
And I know-- I respect it.
50:42
I really respect Pamela Coleman-Smith.
50:44
I've listened to multiple episodes
50:47
on different witchy pods about her.
50:48
And I'm just obsessed.
50:50
So I just want to give her--
50:51
I want everyone to know her name.
50:54
I love that.
50:54
That's why I went and wrote out her entire name.
50:56
And then I was like, oh, fuck, what was weight's name?
50:58
What's your guy?
51:00
He's just a riding a spy.
51:02
Yeah, fucking guy.
51:05
But in the Waite-Smith-Rider deck, the major arcana,
51:10
we know, is all of the food, the magician, all of those cards,
51:14
those 20, 21, 20--
51:17
I think it's 21.
51:19
I think it's 20.
51:20
I don't remember.
51:21
20 cards.
51:22
Do you want me to look?
51:23
I think it's 20.
51:24
Let me look.
51:25
OK, let me look.
51:27
22.
51:28
Oh, it is 22.
51:31
22.
51:32
22.
51:33
Taytay.
51:36
OK, so that's what we normally know all of the 22 cards
51:41
as in this deck they're called Trump cards.
51:47
OK, and I've heard this before.
51:49
This is a term I'm familiar with.
51:51
I've heard it before.
51:53
I think I associated it with poker or something.
51:56
Right, like regular playing cards.
51:59
Yeah.
52:01
And I don't know if you heard me in my research earlier,
52:03
I was like, ew.
52:05
Yeah.
52:06
That's why.
52:06
It's a definite ew.
52:08
That's why.
52:08
Because I was writing you.
52:09
They're called Trump cards.
52:11
Yeah.
52:12
Gross.
52:12
That's an age well.
52:14
Here we are.
52:15
Yeah.
52:15
Wow.
52:16
I feel like Aleister Crowley would definitely
52:19
wear a Maga hat.
52:22
I don't know.
52:23
I feel like he's a little too dignified.
52:26
Do you think?
52:28
You know, it's a coin toss.
52:29
I don't know.
52:30
It's a coin tie.
52:31
It's a Maga vibes, but is it Maga?
52:33
Maga?
52:34
Maga?
52:35
No one cares.
52:36
I don't care.
52:37
As it turns out, no one cares.
52:38
Yeah.
52:39
No, I mean, I think as someone who decided in the early 1900s to live out loud as a bisexual
52:49
man.
52:50
I guess that's true.
52:51
I do have a little bit of a harder time believing that he would be a Trump bumper, but
52:56
I could be wrong.
52:57
But there's a lot of misogyny in his beliefs and practices in life.
53:03
And that's true.
53:04
That's true.
53:05
Listen, sometimes there's enough hate to go around, unfortunately.
53:11
Yeah.
53:12
So I don't know.
53:13
I guess we can't say.
53:14
No.
53:15
He's not alive.
53:16
Not conclusively.
53:17
Yeah.
53:18
The results are inconclusive.
53:19
Yes.
53:20
Even though I said definitely, I didn't mean it.
53:24
Definitely allegedly.
53:26
I don't know if in this deck they're referred to the minor arcana, the lesser arcana.
53:35
I'm really not sure.
53:37
But in this deck, they're just called the suits.
53:39
Okay.
53:40
And I was going to say suits.
53:42
Yeah.
53:43
But that goes back to a traditional playing deck of cards.
53:47
Yeah.
53:48
And I think they're referred to that too in the normal, uh, Waite-Smith-Rider deck
53:54
too.
53:55
They can be called the suits.
53:56
So, but that's what it is in this.
53:58
I don't know if there's another.
54:00
I was assuming there was like another name.
54:03
So the trump cards and the suits, I guess is what they're called.
54:08
We're going to go over some of the trump cards that are different.
54:10
So the first one is would be the magician and the traditional deck.
54:16
And in this, I, in this deck, it's called the magus, which means sorcerer.
54:23
And that can also be called the juggler too in this deck, I guess.
54:26
He looks like he's juggling to be fair.
54:31
He looks a little shady.
54:32
I'm a little skeptical of his motives to be honest.
54:36
Mr. Sorcerer.
54:37
Sorcerer..
54:38
And I think we've had this come up in the tarot interpretation book too.
54:44
So their number eight card is the adjustment card or justice.
54:48
Oh.
54:49
And in the original deck, it's the strength card.
54:52
And the strength, which is also one of my cards.
54:56
That's crazy.
54:57
Yeah.
54:58
Okay.
54:59
And not to make everything Leo centric, which is very Leo of a Leo, but that is kind of wild
55:06
though, because it's like those are two hotly debated cards.
55:10
And that's, yes.
55:12
That's one of their, their main.
55:15
And they do say that they flip flop, either 11 or eight would be strength and justice.
55:21
But in this deck, number 11 is the lust card taking the place of the strength card.
55:28
Their strength card is nine of ones, because all of the suits have words associated with
55:36
them too.
55:37
So nine of ones has strength on the bottom of it.
55:40
The lust card.
55:41
The lust card.
55:42
I know.
55:43
And I was like, that is very interesting because they also, they have a lover's card too.
55:47
So it's like, yeah, it's just interesting that they have both.
55:50
And then they got, they moved the strength card to nine of ones, which is not a trump card.
55:56
It's a suit.
55:57
Yeah.
55:58
Very interesting.
55:59
They also call their number 12.
56:02
It is either the hanged man or they will call it the dying God, which I thought was interesting.
56:07
I feel like in this deck, it does say the hanged man.
56:10
Okay.
56:11
But dying God just sounds like way more ominous, I think, because hanged man isn't like
56:17
a dying man.
56:18
It's like, it's all about a different perspective and like seeing things from a different perspective.
56:23
So there are so many of these cards that are different.
56:27
Holy shit.
56:29
Literally, every single one of the suits is different because it has a word associated
56:36
with it on the card, which is so cool.
56:39
Here's the hanged man.
56:41
And they do call it, yeah, they do call it the hanged man.
56:44
And it does have that, it has an Egyptian symbol.
56:47
Is that the, yeah, that's an ankh.
56:49
He's hanging from an ankh, basically.
56:51
I did also find the strength card number nine.
56:56
And I got confused because I was like, I thought it was swords.
56:59
Because they're kind of like, they look like arrows and I was like, what do swords, but
57:04
no, they're ones.
57:05
Wow.
57:06
Yeah.
57:07
Okay.
57:08
The number 14 card, which is normally temperance, is the art card.
57:13
The 16 is the tower card and then in this deck, it's sometimes known as the house of God,
57:19
which is interesting because it's like the tower card is like burning, crumbling things,
57:25
going to shit, basically.
57:26
So it's a very disastrous card.
57:29
I feel like by interpretation, I know that we pulled that out earlier as we were sort
57:36
of exploring the deck.
57:38
And ours does say the tower.
57:40
I thought house of God was interesting, though, because it just reminded me of like God will
57:45
smite you.
57:46
Feels, it feels very smitey.
57:49
Yeah, very smitey.
57:50
Very smitey.
57:51
A 20 is normally judgment, but in this deck is the aeon or angel.
57:58
I think an arse says the aeon.
58:00
Aeon?
58:01
Yeah, I'm not sure.
58:03
On the pronunciation, I don't, I'm not trying to convert.
58:07
So I would say aeon, I don't know, because my dog was Shae.
58:10
And her was S H A E. So I'm like, Shay, aion, aion.
58:16
That's exactly where my head goes to as well.
58:20
Okay.
58:21
Now, this is really interesting because there's a very clear, this is borrowing, I think, from
58:28
potentially multiple cultures, but it feels like this is certainly taking from Hinduism.
58:35
Yes, there was a lot of Indian, it's Indian, right?
58:38
There was a lot of Indian influence as well.
58:40
Typically, I mean, it's other Southeast Asian cultures, I believe as well, but it's primarily
58:46
Indian.
58:47
That's the ethno association.
58:51
Yeah, he did take them.
58:52
It was like mostly Egyptian, some Indian, and then a lot of other cultures as well.
58:57
So there's like a really mixed bag in here.
59:00
That's the aeon?
59:01
Aeon?
59:02
Aeon.
59:03
Yeah.
59:04
And I do know, and this is interesting because I don't see this on all of the cards, but
59:10
they do know and didn't necessarily include it in my section, but he wasn't one point trying
59:15
to learn Arabic.
59:16
And I'm not certain, but this is not an easy language to learn.
59:21
Not at all.
59:22
My ex has been trying to get me to learn it because he was learning it in the military and
59:28
it's a lot.
59:29
No idea.
59:30
It was hard.
59:33
This almost looks like it could be an Arabic character.
59:38
I'm not familiar enough with the language.
59:41
They have every card has a Hebrew symbol on it.
59:46
So it might be a Hebrew symbol?
59:51
Not all of these.
59:53
I read somewhere that a lot like every card has a Hebrew symbol associated with it.
59:58
And that's not uncommon.
1:00:01
And I'm also not fully versed in Hebrew, but the line between what's Arabic versus Hebrew
1:00:08
of course, I think based on what's happening in our world today, I won't overstep.
1:00:18
I think probably I don't need to explain that that's a very thin line.
1:00:23
Right.
1:00:24
I'm not sure.
1:00:26
I'm not sure.
1:00:27
How could you be?
1:00:29
Number 21 is normally the world card.
1:00:32
And this one, this is the one I do like.
1:00:35
And this they call it the universe.
1:00:36
Okay.
1:00:37
I like that.
1:00:38
I like that.
1:00:39
I'm going to find that boy.
1:00:42
Because I mean the universe.
1:00:44
The universe.
1:00:45
I just love.
1:00:46
It's a powerful place.
1:00:47
Yeah.
1:00:48
Because the world is like, it's just so small.
1:00:51
The universe is the whole universe, man.
1:00:55
It does seem like very us-centric.
1:00:59
Yeah.
1:01:00
So in this deck, the suits are mostly the same except for pentacles.
1:01:06
They call discs.
1:01:07
Yeah.
1:01:08
Oh my God, that was going to drive me insane.
1:01:11
Which I don't.
1:01:12
I guess because he has his own version of a pentacle of pentagram.
1:01:16
Yeah.
1:01:17
I don't know.
1:01:18
I don't know.
1:01:19
I think it's weird.
1:01:20
And you leave all of the other ones the same.
1:01:23
It's just strange to me to leave so much the same but change just like little things.
1:01:27
Yeah.
1:01:28
Yeah.
1:01:29
I want, okay, I almost wonder if maybe they didn't finish the deck before he had passed.
1:01:36
And he'd made all these little changes and then like didn't get to finish making the
1:01:40
changes that he wanted to make and they printed it.
1:01:42
Did he?
1:01:43
Maybe.
1:01:44
I mean, I have no one has any way of knowing really unless it's written somewhere and we
1:01:48
pull it out in research.
1:01:50
But if you have an Aleister Crowley notebook just like hanging out and you're adding and
1:01:56
your basements and then one last thing in the traditional deck, it's like the night,
1:02:04
page king, queen and king.
1:02:08
In this deck, it's night, queen, prince and princess.
1:02:13
That was very interesting.
1:02:15
I'm looking.
1:02:16
There's no king which is like, okay, bye.
1:02:18
Was the massage and stuff real like is it makes me question.
1:02:23
Does make you wonder a little bit.
1:02:25
I think I have to say I feel like in practice it was still there.
1:02:30
I feel like in practice it was still there.
1:02:32
Unfortunately.
1:02:33
It's weird because I was like wait because I originally thought when I saw prints and
1:02:39
prints that it was replacing the night and the page because the page is kind of like a
1:02:43
more feminine, younger figure.
1:02:45
Yeah.
1:02:46
Yeah.
1:02:47
But then I was like, no, there's no king.
1:02:50
There's a night, a queen, a prince and a princess.
1:02:54
I think it's weird.
1:02:55
I don't know.
1:02:56
I guess when we go through the interpretations, maybe it will make sense.
1:03:00
I was going to say I wouldn't label it as weird.
1:03:03
I would say it might be peculiar.
1:03:05
It's peculiar.
1:03:07
I just think there are societies and entire cultures that have operated as matriarchies.
1:03:17
Right.
1:03:18
I mean, I personally don't need a king.
1:03:20
I'm cool with it.
1:03:21
I just think from what I know, what I think I know, it just didn't quite make sense with
1:03:29
that.
1:03:30
It's interesting.
1:03:31
It's really interesting to see the contrast.
1:03:34
I agree.
1:03:35
Yeah.
1:03:36
In that respect, and I'm like not to be silly or argumentative, it's like that makes sense
1:03:42
that you would say that's weird.
1:03:43
Yeah.
1:03:44
Yeah.
1:03:45
But you have to argue with me.
1:03:47
Little bit.
1:03:48
Just for fun, Z's.
1:03:49
Well, should we go eat some pizza and then do some tarot?
1:03:53
Yeah.
1:03:54
We had a long day of research and recording.
1:03:57
I can't even believe you have to ask. I am so hungry. I was asking more for the audience.
1:04:04
I was narrating for the audience. Okay. Tarot? Tarot? Thoth! Thoth, Thoth, Thoth, Thoth, Thoth, Thoth, Thoth!
1:04:14
Pand? Pan? Ah, Pamm. Two m's.
1:04:23
Did you shuffle this earlier, right? I did. I feel like you needed to do another one or no.
1:04:32
I think I'm good. Okay. I... Here's the thing I can't. That's true.
1:04:39
Huh! Well? How did you drop them all? Um, interesting. But there happens to be... This is interesting
1:04:52
because there's one up. And I'm going to take a picture of it. Everyone's seeing it. Okay.
1:04:57
We're going to add this because I feel like that might be the card. Could be because there's one
1:05:03
just up. It's kind of cute actually. Like you said, it's been a 10-hour day. There's just one up.
1:05:10
Oh, isn't that cool? Yeah. Okay. So it's eight of cups. Indolence? I don't know. Indolence?
1:05:20
Indolence? What kind of word is "indolence"? Um, well, this book will not have it because that is
1:05:28
unique to the... I figured we could look it up in the little book and... Yeah. Maybe Google it if we need
1:05:37
to because I don't know if the interpretations are that long. Okay. Eight of cups.
1:05:44
"Suit of water, Saturn in Pisces, the Lotus's Drup, the cups are shallow and old, and are arranged in
1:05:52
three rows. The upper row is empty. But it is like, it is still the eight of cups. So we can read the
1:05:59
other book. It just has that extra little word on it. The power is now spent. The water is turned to
1:06:06
slide. The flowers' droop, the cups are broken. What does this mean? Is that in the reverse, maybe?
1:06:13
This book is confusing. Okay. So not exactly explicit? No. Not at all. I had no idea like what this
1:06:24
interpretation book was really going to say, but it didn't say a lot. Hmm. Great. That's what we were all
1:06:31
hoping for. Okay. Well, and it does equate to the eight of cups. It says it's a dark card where the
1:06:40
cups are broken and have small unstable bases. Wow. Okay. The top row of cups are empty. The middle
1:06:50
cups are filled with water from diseased notices. Wow. The center bottom cup is empty. Okay. What does
1:07:00
this mean? I'm so intrigued. So indolence, the definition equates to laziness, inactivity,
1:07:11
dislike of work, lethargic and sluggish are all words that describe it. I feel like we're so
1:07:19
opposite of that though. Yeah. That's very interesting. Huh. Do you think this wasn't our card?
1:07:28
I mean, it did just sort of jump out. Yeah. It was very weird how that happened. Like I want more. I
1:07:33
need more. Yeah. I think we are going to have to look for an interpretation book. Well, look at
1:07:39
the book. Yeah. That's fair. We'll look at we can look at the eight of cups and um because that's
1:07:45
all we have for now. Yeah. I kind of feel like this might sound crazy. What? I kind of feel like
1:07:54
we're using this person's deck and we're kind of like slamming him a little bit. I kind of slightly
1:08:01
feel trolled because this is like such the opposite of like we were just saying like how hard we worked
1:08:07
and we done all of these amazing things and then it's a little bit. I mean, maybe it speaks more to
1:08:15
somebody else's acumen. Maybe. Maybe that could be picking up on somebody else's. I don't know.
1:08:24
I guess maybe we needed to focus more energy on like us. Maybe we weren't thinking enough about us.
1:08:31
This is like his card. Maybe we should draw another one for our card. I feel like this might
1:08:35
I feel like this might be his card because it's um keywords are turning away, cutting losses,
1:08:43
decline, dejection and seriousness. You wish things had turned out differently but you can't
1:08:52
salvage a matter and you realize you must abandon it. That makes me think of his relationship.
1:09:00
I mean, I shouldn't show them. But probably a lot of things in this life.
1:09:05
It's time to let go and get out of the situation that has failed despite your best efforts.
1:09:12
Move ahead with determination. Find a new direction and learn from your experience.
1:09:21
This is Crowley. All over it. Okay. In a reading about money and investment hasn't paid off or
1:09:29
you've lost money through no fault of your own except perhaps not seeing things accurately.
1:09:36
Cut your losses and conserve your resources. Wow. Like a dwindling inheritance.
1:09:44
Yeah. If the reading is about your job, the aid of cups may recommend pouring your heart and soul
1:09:51
into in and depper. Which he did. We also do. Don't let distractions throw you off course.
1:10:00
Sometimes this card advises leaving a job that no longer interests you.
1:10:10
Oh, that I could. In a reading about love, this card can mean ending a relationship that's
1:10:16
lost its spark. Conversely, it may show you getting serious about a partnership giving it your all.
1:10:23
So he lost one partner but then he got married. Literally the next sentence, you're no longer
1:10:30
interested in casual fling. Oh, wow. Okay. We definitely talked about that.
1:10:36
When you most feel like holding on to something, it is usually the best time to let go.
1:10:41
That's our extra excerpt from David Cameron Gikandi, a happy pocket full of money.
1:10:50
That sounds good. I want that one. I mean, I'll take her. Okay. Let me grab these cards because
1:10:57
so I originally was feeling like we should draw to anyway but then I didn't want to make it longer
1:11:02
but now I feel like we have to. Yeah, you kind of have to.
1:11:05
Truths. Oh, interesting. Truth is the four of swords. Is that? Yes. Okay.
1:11:16
What does it tell us within our interpretation booklet? The four swords in this card are at the
1:11:25
corner of the St. Andrews Cross. Their points are sheathed in a rose of 49 petals. 49 petals.
1:11:34
This represents the establishment of dogma and convention in the realm of intellect.
1:11:40
Interesting. We're not just hat rocks. Just hat rocks. I don't know why there's like two separate
1:11:49
types of interpretations. But this one says the formality of the design of the swords, the cross,
1:11:56
and the rose denote intellect bound by rigid convention. Rigid. Interesting. The surrounding
1:12:04
crystals as in all these sword cards contain the hidden names of their guardian angels worked out
1:12:10
in numbers on squared paper. It was thought that the air was formed of crystals according to
1:12:18
Pythagoras. This is way too esoteric for me. Yeah, it does. It does seem incredibly esoteric.
1:12:27
Yeah, we're going to have to look. I'm just going to keep saying it like a broken record.
1:12:33
We're going to have to look for a better interpretation book. It didn't make me think though of like
1:12:38
we did. It's like us too. And then Chris and Taylyn who also like our big parts and helping with
1:12:43
the podcast. It's like four people. Yeah. The four feels. Yeah, that's true. Okay, interesting. You say
1:12:52
that. Keywords. Rest. Recuperation. Retreat. Solitude. Interspection and recovery. Forse. Symbolized
1:13:02
stability. This card represents withdrawing and resting in order to get your bearings after a
1:13:09
time of trouble. Some decks show a night lying down recuperating after an inner or outer battle.
1:13:18
So when do we get our best and relax and recuperate in April the four months? That's true. We are
1:13:27
doing a little not staycation but like it'll be four of us too. Oh yeah. Interesting. Weird.
1:13:36
Just saying we literally booked that. Yeah, we did. Often this card means you've been through a
1:13:42
period of difficulty and now you feel the need for introspection and solitude. You're examining
1:13:48
what you've experienced trying to understand what it all means so you can plan for your future.
1:13:54
This is the calm after the storm card. Sometimes it shows you're starting to recover after physical
1:14:02
illness or injury. Weird. Interreading about money the upright for or discussion and discrimination.
1:14:11
Maybe you need to separate yourself from a financial issue. This card can also suggest you feel
1:14:18
overwhelmed by financial burdens and need a rest. I mean that's kind of true. Don't we?
1:14:27
If the reading is about your job you probably feel burned out at work and need a vacation. Yeah.
1:14:33
Things people have said to my face. I feel also like as much as we I like love the podcast. Wouldn't change
1:14:40
a thing. We made it to 200. Very celebratory. But I am burnt out. I know. I think we literally kind of
1:14:51
got to a point where it's just like in every aspect of life we were like we kind of just need to give
1:14:57
ourselves a little bit of a respite. Like I said we booked it's booked. It's booked. I mean I'm hoping for
1:15:04
calming healing vibes. Yeah. But it's like just one day and yeah it's not really gonna
1:15:12
stop any podcast work from going so I feel like it's gonna be like relaxing but not really.
1:15:19
Yeah. Yeah. We're still gonna record and then we'll go and check it. Yeah. For our relaxing.
1:15:27
Like we'll still be working. Yeah. It's true. It's true. After a period of stress, confusion or
1:15:34
difficulty or maybe all three you may be sorting things out clearing your head and regaining your
1:15:41
strength. In a reading about love the upright for can mean carving out some time for yourself.
1:15:48
I feel like we definitely need to do that. Yeah. Challenges in a relationship may have left you
1:15:56
feeling drained or discouraged. Look within to discover your true needs and how you need to
1:16:02
restore balance or how you can restore balance. Wow. Okay. That was a brilliant flip.
1:16:07
In introduction to tarot, Susan Levitt writes, unfortunately the mind is too often filled with worry
1:16:18
doubt and fear or the mind absorbs information that has little to do with the souls in her workings.
1:16:24
To counteract this she recommends meditation yoga deep breathing chanting prayer long walks
1:16:32
and bats. Bats. Bats. Soaking. We're gonna do that. That's bad. This reminded me of the beginning where
1:16:46
I was saying 200 represented like endurance and then it also said trust and
1:16:54
hang in there basically. You've worked really hard. Hang in there. Things are coming but maybe also
1:17:02
take some time for yourself and don't totally burn out on it. Yeah. It's hard to know when you're
1:17:09
striking the right balance. I know especially because you want like we want this to work so bad. Yeah.
1:17:16
Well, I think we're done. I think that's that. You know what's interesting too? We got an eight and a
1:17:23
four and you know what eight divided by four is two. And all connects. Is that a pop quiz? Your
1:17:33
bench. I was actually saying it. I was like wait, am I right? Let's easy math. I'm okay. I'm pretty confident.
1:17:39
I feel like I'm pretty tired but I think that's two. I mean two. We talk about two. We talk about
1:17:49
200. I mean, it connects. You know, maybe. Maybe. Well, we're getting delusional. Let's get on here.
1:17:57
This is a great up 200 partner. We have learned so much today. And we actually actually we had so
1:18:05
much fun and we're fully delirious and exhausted and it's time for us to go but it's been a good one.
1:18:13
We should have more research pizza, cinnamon roll, cinnamon, what's it called cinnamon wheel?
1:18:21
It was a cinnamon wheel and Always Sunny. We should have those days all the time. Oh boy.
1:18:26
And why? Hello. And brunch. We had mimosas this morning. We did. We did. We really had a full day.
1:18:37
I had my three square meals with this gal. As long as we count the cinnamon bread, my third meal.
1:18:47
100%. I got 200%. Yeah. Yeah. Should we do the thing that we do? Yeah, we should probably do the thing.
1:18:55
200th time. Oh my God. Have a creepy ass day. We will see you next Tuesday. We're not going anywhere.
1:19:04
Seriously, we don't even know what to do with ourselves. So I can't even imagine the life without
1:19:10
doing this. So what would I do? Who could say? Thanks for listening for 200 episodes.
1:19:16
We're going to go before we start crying. She's got no tears. It's not true. I just rewetted my eyes.
1:19:24
Onion! Onion! I'm not Dennis! Oh, that's perfect.
1:19:34
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