Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / "Thermal Camera" to Crack Lynette Hooker Case? Feds Secretly Reconstruct Scene

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"Thermal Camera" to Crack Lynette Hooker Case? Feds Secretly Reconstruct Scene · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Tonight, will a thermal camera crack the Lynette Hooker overboard case? This,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: as we learn tonight, the feds are secretly reconstructing the scene.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: want to thank you for being with us.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: Brian has said from the very beginning that that Lynette
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: bounced off the dinghy around 7.30 p.m.
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: Investigators have uncovered that the soulmate's AIS data directly contradict
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: the narrative that Brian Hooker had with this nine-hour paddle.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: Investigators now believe that both Brian and Lynette did make
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: it back to the soulmate.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: So do you remember that story that he gave He,
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Brian Hooker, that he left the scene of his wife's disappearance,
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: obviously death, because his mother was critically ill, terminally ill. Well,
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: this is a video of him at his mom's place
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: living life. There he is enjoying a latte. Not a
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: care in the world. He's been spotted shopping, wandering around
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: in the night. What is he doing? Why is he
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: looking at trash? He's been spotted around the neighborhood, out shopping,
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: at the pharmacy, and basically, technical legal term, chillaxing. This
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: is from our friends at Fox News Digital. Whoa, wait
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: a minute. Josh Colesrood, veteran defense attorney. I thought he
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: swore he would stay on the island until the end
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: of time trying to find Lynette. Is that him having
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: a little cappy, a cappuccino, outside his mom's house? Can
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: I say that again? I think that is him. That's
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: not him in the Bahamas looking for Lynette Hooker. Take
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: a look, Colesrude. Look hard. Put on your glasses. That's him. Okay,
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: Josh Colesrude, what happened to his vehement vow that he
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: would never leave until he found her?
• 2:13
  Speaker 4: Well, let's remember that Brian Hooker is not charged with
• 2:17
  Speaker 4: a crime. In fact, He was in the Bahamas and
• 2:21
  Speaker 4: answered questions to the prosecutors for days, and they still
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: chose not to charge him with a crime. It's okay
• 2:31
  Speaker 4: to leave a jurisdiction when they are actively investigating you
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: for murder. Why would you help them out when you
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: know that they're trying to literally take your life away
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: and put you in prison for a crime that they
• 2:47
  Speaker 4: haven't been able to prove? that you did. So, you know,
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: as of right now, this moment, you know, he's entitled
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: to drink a cup of coffee and to walk around
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: town and go shopping because there are no criminal charges.
• 3:00
  Speaker 4: He has the presumption of innocence.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: Were you surprised he left?
• 3:06
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 3:07
  Speaker 5: Cause one day he's saying I'll never stop searching for
• 3:10
  Speaker 5: her and crying on camera and then leaves the very
• 3:13
  Speaker 5: next day, which to me, That just shows his character
• 3:17
  Speaker 5: on how much his word means and just who he
• 3:20
  Speaker 5: is as a person. You're going to go see your
• 3:23
  Speaker 5: mom who's been ill. She's been ill for a while
• 3:26
  Speaker 5: with chronic kidney failure. So I'm not saying like, don't
• 3:29
  Speaker 5: see your mom. But with what's going on right now,
• 3:33
  Speaker 5: why leave now? I don't think he wanted, a part
• 3:36
  Speaker 5: of me feels like he didn't want to face Steve
• 3:38
  Speaker 5: and I. I'm glad he left though because I did
• 3:41
  Speaker 5: not want to run into him. I did not. I
• 3:43
  Speaker 5: didn't want to say something or I regret or something.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: Is it true that your stepdad, Brian Hooker, knew you
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: were coming down and he left anyway? Just before you
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: got there?
• 3:56
  Speaker 5: I'm sure he did because I told reporters that I
• 3:59
  Speaker 5: was coming down there. So I'm sure he knew and
• 4:02
  Speaker 5: he bolted right before I got there. He talked to
• 4:06
  Speaker 5: us in a group chat with her, just us three.
• 4:09
  Speaker 5: and was like, I wish I could be there for
• 4:11
  Speaker 5: you guys, but I have to be here searching for her.
• 4:13
  Speaker 5: This lady can take care of you guys. His daughter, Rosie,
• 4:17
  Speaker 5: asked him if they were fighting when this all happened,
• 4:21
  Speaker 5: and he didn't respond. She doesn't want to believe he
• 4:25
  Speaker 5: did anything to her because that's her dad.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: So I get that.
• 4:29
  Speaker 5: But at the same time, with what we know, it's
• 4:32
  Speaker 5: just not adding up.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: Judge Colesrood, why is it no matter what I ask you,
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: You say something like, well, he's not charged with anything.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: That's not what I asked you. I asked you what
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: about his vow to never leave the island, that he
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: was going to find the truth and find his wife.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: That didn't take long. All I saw of him, elbows
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: and tail hole as he ran away down the airport strip.
• 5:00
  Speaker 5: Why?
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: Why didn't he go back? I mean, do I have
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: to show it again? I guess I do. Please show me.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: Our video from Fox News Digi. There he is. He's
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: got time to dig through a neighbor's trash. Hey, anything
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: you want in there? How about the truth? Here he
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: is enjoying a latte. He's not looking for her. Why, Colesrood?
• 5:22
  Speaker 4: So if he can't help them find her or provide
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: any assistance, then going home is a practical reason. And
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: if I was his attorney, I would have told him
• 5:32
  Speaker 4: to go home from day one. So I think that
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: it was a good strategic decision to do that.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: I literally had to bite my tongue to not interrupt you.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: Brian Fitzgibbons is joining us. He's the director of USPA
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: Nationwide Security. He leads a team of investigators literally around
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: the world to find and extract missing people, including people
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: that go missing in bodies of water. He is a
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: former Marine. He is a and rocky war vet, which
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: says it all to me. Fitzgibbons, how do family members
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: normally act when they're trying to find their lost loved one?
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: Are they like chillaxing in mom's carport?
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, this is incongruent with a grieving family member, Nancy.
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: And there's no playbook to this, you know, as that
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: common cliche phrase is, but this doesn't line up. with
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: what we normally see with missing persons cases in a
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: grieving family member that is spending every single waking hour
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: searching for the victim, searching for their loved one, contacting people,
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: receiving tips, going to locations, organizing search efforts. You know,
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: this is very, very much so incongruent with that.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: You know what, Fitzgibbons, you're so right. And it's bringing
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: to mind a mom who has spent more than two
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: decades fighting for justice for her daughter. It's Maggie Zingman.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: She is the mother of Brittany Phillips, and she drives
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: cross-country with a van with Brittany's face on the van
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: with a toll-free number on it. He's not been asked,
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: don't come help us. I'm sure Ellie would love to
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: talk to him more in depth. That's not true. Colesroo
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: just dug that out of nowhere. So why is he
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: not there? This is contrary to every family member I
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: have ever seen trying to find a lost loved one.
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'll add something that Brian Hooker's statements publicly
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: on the record, on video and to family and friends
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: about his search efforts have largely been refuted right down
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: to in the first days of Lynette Hooker's disappearance. He
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: claims to have organized searches. He claims to have been
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: given the phone numbers of captains to organize a boat search.
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: And it's been released recently that none of that actually happened.
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: So not only is he not driving around the Bahamas
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: looking for his wife, the efforts that he claims to
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: have made have been largely discredited.
• 8:12
  Speaker 5: I won't be able to stop looking.
• 8:15
  Speaker 6: You want to keep looking for Lynette.
• 8:19
  Speaker 5: I'm going to need somebody with more authority to tell
• 8:22
  Speaker 5: me to stop.
• 8:24
  Speaker 7: She wouldn't stop and I'm not going to stop.
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: I think that's all I can really do, Jesse.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: I understand.
• 8:33
  Speaker 6: Thank you, Brian.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: Thank you for your time. Thank you. O-M-S. Oh My Stars.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: We hear it from the horse's mouth. That's from CBS
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: and NBC. Vanessa Walsh joining us. She is the star
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: of Unmasked True Crime. She is the one that first
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: obtained a phone call from Brian Hooker to a friend
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: the day after Lynette vanished, giving a long, rambling statement
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: about what happened. Vanessa Walsh, aside from the husband, Hooker,
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: enjoying a latte in Mom's carport, far, far away from
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: the scene of where Lynette, we think, went missing, tonight
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: we are learning that infrared radar is being used, hopefully,
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: to crack the case, and that the feds are low-key,
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: on the down-low, reconstructing the crime scene. First of all,
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: do we know where Hooker is tonight? And second, what
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: can you tell me about the feds reconstructing the crime scene?
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: And this is not the Bahamas police. These are the feds.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: They don't play Vanessa.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: Yes. And what we do know about Brian is he is,
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: like you said, hanging out at his mom's house outside
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: of Sacramento and He's been photographed walking his dogs, running errands,
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: spending a lot of time hanging out in his mom's garage,
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: basically from outward appearances. anyway, living a very peaceful life. Meanwhile,
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: Lynette's family is very frustrated. We've reached the six-month mark now,
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: and they still don't have any answers. And they've also
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: said publicly recently that they have not heard anything from him.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: They haven't heard from him since those initial days since
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: Lynette went missing. He's changed his phone number, deleted his socials.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: They don't even have a way to get a hold
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: of him. So there's been no contact in almost six
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: months from Brian to the family.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: What can you tell me about the feds reconstructing the scene?
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: So what we know now, of course, they've seized the soulmate.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: They seized the dinghy. Both of those are being processed
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: for evidence. Some of the evidence has been sent to
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: the FBI lab at Quantico. They've been very tight-lipped on
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: what they found, of course, but we do know that
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: the family has said publicly that they have been told
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: by investigators that there was evidence that Lynette made it
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: back to the soulmate. We also know about the cameras.
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: He had a very sophisticated thermal camera system on board
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: as well that we learned can be operated by iCloud.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: So investigators are also looking at that to see if
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: they can reconstruct any of the movements of that night.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: Joining us now, Ross Gardner. crime scene analyst, 30 years
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: experience VP of Beville Gardner and Associates. That's Forensic Education
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: Consulting Group. And he is the author of Bloodstained Pattern
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: Analysis with an intro to crime scene reconstruction. Ross Gardner,
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: thank you so much for being with us tonight. Ross,
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: very difficult to reconstruct in the water. All right, you're
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: going to need divers and your evidence has literally been
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: washed away. But What about on the boat, the soulmate?
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: Because the mother has stated very clearly that she believes,
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: and she won't say much about it or why, that
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: Lynette did make it back to the soulmate that night.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: How do you reconstruct a scene like that? What do
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: you do?
• 11:59
  Speaker 8: Well, I think the first issue is that it's a
• 12:04
  Speaker 8: misnomer sometimes when people talk about reconstruction. Reconstruction is specific discipline.
• 12:11
  Speaker 8: It's based on physical artifacts, the context in which you
• 12:15
  Speaker 8: find them, digital data. You have to have data. And
• 12:18
  Speaker 8: what you're seeking to do is to find objective actions
• 12:23
  Speaker 8: that occur during an incident and then put temporal order
• 12:26
  Speaker 8: to it. So if you think about the dinghy, the
• 12:28
  Speaker 8: dinghy's been looked at, obviously, if they had found bloodstains
• 12:33
  Speaker 8: or something relating to that, we probably would have known that.
• 12:38
  Speaker 8: But nonetheless, the dinghy is probably not the scene. With
• 12:43
  Speaker 8: regard to the sailboat, you're going to run into some problems.
• 12:48
  Speaker 8: First and foremost, DNA, minor ambiguous bloodstains are going to
• 12:54
  Speaker 8: mean nothing because she lived there. So you're looking for
• 13:00
  Speaker 8: activities such as cleanup of significant bloodstains. If there are
• 13:06
  Speaker 8: older or if there are stains present that are related
• 13:10
  Speaker 8: to dynamic events, injuries, whatever. So you're really, you're up
• 13:16
  Speaker 8: against a brick wall. You don't have the medical, you
• 13:21
  Speaker 8: don't have the body, so you don't have any data
• 13:23
  Speaker 8: from the medical examiner as to the nature of injuries
• 13:26
  Speaker 8: and things of this nature. Bottom line, it really depends
• 13:31
  Speaker 8: on what they find in there. Is there evidence of
• 13:34
  Speaker 8: violence involved? things that were broken, whatever, large volumes of blood.
• 13:41
  Speaker 8: What we know is very limited as to what they found,
• 13:43
  Speaker 8: but obviously they will tear that sailboat apart.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: Joining us now, Ross Gardner, crime scene analyst. Got a
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: question for you. You said that as part of a
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: reconstruction of a crime scene, you look for evidence of cleanup.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: What do you mean by that?
• 14:05
  Speaker 8: Well, making an assumption that the violence created bloodstains, well,
• 14:13
  Speaker 8: then you could have volumes of blood that had saturated
• 14:18
  Speaker 8: carpet or were pooled on the floor. And or if it, again,
• 14:23
  Speaker 8: assuming some kind of violence impacts to her head, creating
• 14:30
  Speaker 8: a small spatter onto the surrounding surfaces, When he gets
• 14:36
  Speaker 8: all done, obviously cleaning up that mess becomes problematic for
• 14:42
  Speaker 8: him and he has to do that. And even when
• 14:44
  Speaker 8: you do clean up, that doesn't mean you can't find
• 14:49
  Speaker 8: evidence of it. Using various chemical procedures, leukomalcyte green, luminol, amidoblack, whatever,
• 14:59
  Speaker 8: there are ways to bring that cleanup to light. so
• 15:05
  Speaker 8: that you can visualize what was there. So I'm confident that.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: Hey, Ross, look at your screen. Look at your monitor.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: You are seeing right here the body cam video of
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: the Coast Guard seizing the soulmate. And right as given,
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: I want to follow up with you something that Ross
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: Gardner just described, a cleanup, a cleanup. For instance, when
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: someone tries to mop up blood or wipe away blood,
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: get rid of tissue or hair. Even the cleanup leaves
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: a trail, Brian.
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think also in this case, investigators are
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: going to see what materials were moved from the boat,
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: what was missing from that boat. The boat was extensively
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: documented even in the days leading up to Lynette's disappearance.
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: So they'll have a tremendous amount of video footage footage,
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: not only from the security cameras, but from their devices
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: as they were documenting that journey. So, you know, what
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: Ross has pointed out here is, you know, very to
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: the point of what these investigators.
• 16:17
  Speaker 6: Are going to be doing.
• 16:18
  Speaker 8: Dr.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: John Delatore joining us. He is a licensed psychologist, mediator,
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: specializing in forensic psychology. You can find him at Dr.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: John Delatore. Dr. Delatore, thank you for being with us tonight.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: We were earlier showing the video of Brian Hooker chillaxing
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: at his mom's house. Wouldn't you think that he would
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: be there on the scene if his boat were being analyzed,
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: or would it behoove him to just stay as far
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: away as possible?
• 16:54
  Speaker 9: I don't know that it behooves him to stay as
• 16:57
  Speaker 9: far away from possible, but I think we are kind
• 17:00
  Speaker 9: of in this position where he's already made this claim
• 17:03
  Speaker 9: that he was never going to leave until some higher authority.
• 17:07
  Speaker 9: And at that point, I'm not sure he's really talking
• 17:09
  Speaker 9: about police, but he's making this point that someone else
• 17:12
  Speaker 9: has to tell him to leave, which we all completely understood.
• 17:15
  Speaker 9: But in the context of the time, it seems more
• 17:19
  Speaker 9: PR based. And that's where we are right now.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: Dave Mack, Crime Stories investigative reporter. I want to follow
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: up on this heat seeking digital radar evidence claims that
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: it will crack the case. That earlier video from our
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: friends at Fox News Digital. What can you tell me
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: about that, Dave Mack?
• 17:41
  Speaker 7: Nancy, the heat-seeking thermal imaging that's being used to search
• 17:47
  Speaker 7: the soulmate in the hooker disappearance, it really is an
• 17:53
  Speaker 7: important piece of equipment because it's, first of all, very,
• 17:56
  Speaker 7: very expensive. And It was not being used, apparently. The
• 18:02
  Speaker 7: FLIR system not being used when looking for Lynette Hooker.
• 18:10
  Speaker 7: The Soulmate has this forward-looking infrared, okay, the FLIR thermal
• 18:15
  Speaker 7: imaging system. This is capable of detecting heat signatures in
• 18:19
  Speaker 7: the darkness. And yet, apparently, Ryan Hooker didn't use it.
• 18:27
  Speaker 7: and didn't plan on using it the night Lynette disappeared.
• 18:31
  Speaker 7: And at this point, Nancy, when the infrared is used
• 18:36
  Speaker 7: in the water, they can determine this. And the Coast
• 18:39
  Speaker 7: Guard so far has determined that that infrared system was
• 18:43
  Speaker 7: not used to search for Lynette Hooker. This is the
• 18:48
  Speaker 7: type of system, it's an automatic heat detection and tracking.
• 18:52
  Speaker 7: If she was out there and around the boat, he
• 18:55
  Speaker 7: would have found her.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: To Josh Colesrood, veteran defense attorney joining us out of Phoenix,
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: weigh in.
• 19:00
  Speaker 4: Well, I mean, fancy equipment always sounds nice when looking
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: in hindsight. But, you know, don't forget that, you know,
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: there was no law that said that Brian Hooker had
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: to use the thermal imaging 24-7. It's not uncommon for
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: sailors to unplug unnecessary gadgets while they're safely anchored. And also, remember,
• 19:24
  Speaker 4: law enforcement doesn't want him going through and sifting through
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: the crime scene. That's the last thing that law enforcement
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: would ever want was some type of contamination. So, you know,
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: we don't know the backstory of what law enforcement has
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: or had or did not do with Brian Hooker, whether
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: they asked him for help or not. But my instinct
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: says they would never want a suspect to help them
• 19:47
  Speaker 4: with a search.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: Okay. As predicted, Josh Colesroo coming up with all sorts
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: of creative arguments for Brian Hooker, who is not a suspect.
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: Dr.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: Delatore, help me out.
• 19:59
  Speaker 9: I mean, that's all nice, but those are all like
• 20:01
  Speaker 9: sort of legal technicalities. The reality is, is that we
• 20:05
  Speaker 9: are currently battling this case in the court of public opinion, right?
• 20:08
  Speaker 9: And so What we think of as, you know, sure,
• 20:12
  Speaker 9: you know, there's no law against it. And I'm sure,
• 20:14
  Speaker 9: you know, investigators don't want him.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: Ross Gardner, crime scene expert, particularly in crime scene reconstruction.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: How can we crack this case?
• 20:24
  Speaker 8: Initially, he's not a suspect. She's disappeared. And if he
• 20:28
  Speaker 8: has a floor technology and he got back to the
• 20:32
  Speaker 8: boat himself and he didn't employ it, I find that
• 20:38
  Speaker 8: as an investigator, I find that a little disconcerting. Honestly,
• 20:44
  Speaker 8: it will all depend upon. Obviously, the scene was altered.
• 20:49
  Speaker 8: If they'd have found something immediately, he would have been arrested.
• 20:53
  Speaker 8: So this all goes back to processing of that yacht,
• 20:57
  Speaker 8: that sailboat. And what do they find? And do they
• 21:01
  Speaker 8: find evidence of foul play? And if that is the case,
• 21:05
  Speaker 8: then this will be resolved.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: And to Vanessa Walsh, star of Unmasked True Crime.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: Well, I think anytime people are looking at the six-month
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: mark and there hasn't been any arrests or any public
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: movement that we've seen, people can get frustrated and think
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: that nothing is happening. However, I think that everything we've
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: seen publicly has pointed to quite the opposite because The
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: Coast Guard has said it's still an active and ongoing investigation.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: Of course, they've seized both the boats, which they still
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: have possession of. When they went out there in June,
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: they used the divers, the canines. We know that a
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: lot of evidence has been sent to the FBI lab.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: So just because we're not seeing a lot of outward
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: movement or an arrest doesn't mean there's not a lot
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: of significant movement happening behind the scenes. One of my
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: biggest questions would be, though, and maybe this would be
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: good for one of the attorneys or investigator is, Of course,
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: Brian hasn't been charged with anything yet, but I would
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: love to know how long the federal government can hang
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: on to the boat and the dinghy while an investigation
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: is ongoing.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: You know, Dave Mack, following up on what Vanessa Walsh
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: just said, Dave Mack, Crime Stories investigative reporter, we can't
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: see what's happening behind the walls at Quantico with all
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: the items seized from the soulmate.
• 22:23
  Speaker 7: We absolutely can't see anything, Nancy. And, you know, it's
• 22:26
  Speaker 7: fascinating to look at where this investigation has gone and
• 22:31
  Speaker 7: what was what they got. You know, we've got the
• 22:34
  Speaker 7: video of the Coast Guard going on the boat and
• 22:37
  Speaker 7: getting it and taking it. You know, Brian Hooker thought,
• 22:40
  Speaker 7: I'm getting this thing back.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm done.
• 22:43
  Speaker 7: And that didn't happen because now, Nancy, the it is
• 22:47
  Speaker 7: there is a belief, a theory that Lynette Hooker made
• 22:49
  Speaker 7: it back to the boat that night, the soulmate. that
• 22:53
  Speaker 7: she wasn't lost from the dinghy. She made it all
• 22:55
  Speaker 7: the way back to the boat.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: While many people believe that the Lynette Hooker overboard case
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: is put to bed, not true. Sources tonight insisting the
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: feds are on location reconstructing the scene of her alleged
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: overboard straight out to Joe Scott Morgan, Joseph Scott Morgan,
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville State University. And he is a
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: star of a hit series, Body Bags, with Joe Scott
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: Morgan on YouTube. But for our purposes, he is a
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: death investigator with over 10,000 death scenes under his belt.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: Reconstructing the scene of Lynette Hooker's Overboard.
• 23:42
  Speaker 6: How?
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: How?
• 23:46
  Speaker 6: You know, the problem is, Nancy, with crime scenes, you
• 23:50
  Speaker 6: can't go in and shake off the dust and reconstruct it, right?
• 23:53
  Speaker 6: So one of the big problems they're going to have
• 23:57
  Speaker 6: with this is having possession of this boat so long
• 24:00
  Speaker 6: after the fact and then going back and trying to,
• 24:03
  Speaker 6: quote unquote, reconstruct. And as you know and I know,
• 24:07
  Speaker 6: one of the most difficult things in order to prove
• 24:11
  Speaker 6: is something that involves a fall, right? Because there's so
• 24:15
  Speaker 6: many different dynamics that go into this. I'm going to
• 24:18
  Speaker 6: have a real hard time trying to understand exactly what
• 24:21
  Speaker 6: they're going to be attempting to reconstruct. Are they going
• 24:23
  Speaker 6: to do demonstrations out there? Do they have some kind
• 24:26
  Speaker 6: of approximation relative to height, weight? One of the problems
• 24:31
  Speaker 6: is also the fact that how are you going to
• 24:34
  Speaker 6: recreate those environmental conditions out there, the lighting conditions? Because look,
• 24:38
  Speaker 6: at the end of the day, what they're trying to
• 24:40
  Speaker 6: do is create something that can actually be presented in court.
• 24:44
  Speaker 6: And what level of accuracy are you going to have
• 24:47
  Speaker 6: when you're trying to accomplish this?
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: Joe Scott, it's going to be even more difficult to
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: reconstruct because it's in the water. This isn't like a
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: crash where you have skid marks. It's not like a
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: crime scene where you can find blood spatter and other
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: indicia of wrongdoing, of homicide. The challenges of reconstructing in
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: the water are, Could be overwhelming. But what about reconstructing
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: on the boat?
• 25:17
  Speaker 6: Well, again, if you're reconstructing, we have to understand what
• 25:21
  Speaker 6: does that mean? Are we talking about we're going to
• 25:23
  Speaker 6: do it under similar circumstances? We're going to reconstruct there.
• 25:27
  Speaker 6: We're not walking into an apartment. We're not walking into
• 25:31
  Speaker 6: some house or even some kind of outdoor setting here
• 25:34
  Speaker 6: like a park, right? We're talking about a vessel that
• 25:37
  Speaker 6: has moved about considerably, has passed through various hands at
• 25:42
  Speaker 6: the moment in time in which she went missing. How
• 25:45
  Speaker 6: do you go back and reconstruct those circumstances on that
• 25:49
  Speaker 6: vessel at that particular time? Because you have to try
• 25:52
  Speaker 6: to understand the idea of the vessel, particularly if it's
• 25:57
  Speaker 6: pitching in any way. what were the seas like at
• 26:00
  Speaker 6: that particular time because the environment that the vessel is
• 26:04
  Speaker 6: in is actually impacting the dynamics of what happened to
• 26:08
  Speaker 6: her potentially.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: The Lynette Hooker case and its investigation is not put
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: to rest. Reports the feds are down low reconstructing the
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: crime scene. And with us tonight, Joe Scott Morgan. It's
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: been six months since the Michigan mom vanished on a
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: sailing vacation with her husband in the Bahamas. But now
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: a reconstruction. So, Joe Scott, we were talking about the
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: issues of trying to reconstruct the scene in the water.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: I guess it would start with divers and people that
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: can look at that infrared light video, the infrared radar,
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: how would those two factors play into a reconstruction?
• 27:01
  Speaker 6: Okay, so the divers, particularly, if they're going to be
• 27:06
  Speaker 6: working this to part, and by the way, folks don't
• 27:09
  Speaker 6: realize this, within forensic science, there's actually people that do
• 27:13
  Speaker 6: crime scene investigations underwater, all right, and so they would
• 27:17
  Speaker 6: go to the underside of the boat, they'd go they
• 27:20
  Speaker 6: go on the rail, the gunnels, all of that particular
• 27:25
  Speaker 6: area to look for particular evidence. And then wherever she
• 27:29
  Speaker 6: is found, wherever the body would have been recovered from,
• 27:33
  Speaker 6: that would be significant as well, Nancy.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: Joe Scott, what about the camera?
• 27:38
  Speaker 6: Yeah, so we're talking about a FLIR camera, which is
• 27:41
  Speaker 6: actually on one of the masks. You can clearly see
• 27:44
  Speaker 6: it there. And this is an infrared camera. And so
• 27:47
  Speaker 6: how does infrared work? Well, If it's tracking somebody, the
• 27:52
  Speaker 6: body actually is a hotspot, right? So you get an idea.
• 27:56
  Speaker 6: It reveals all things. Those things that are in the dark, right,
• 27:59
  Speaker 6: shall come into the light, if you will. So in
• 28:03
  Speaker 6: an environment where you would not normally be able to
• 28:06
  Speaker 6: see things, say, like on CCTV, if you have a
• 28:10
  Speaker 6: FLIR platform like this that is infrared, it's going to
• 28:14
  Speaker 6: pick up on body heat signatures. So the trick is,
• 28:18
  Speaker 6: Did the camera pick up anything that they can go back, analyze,
• 28:21
  Speaker 6: and potentially reconstruct? And that might be one of the
• 28:25
  Speaker 6: things that we're thinking about relative to her body going
• 28:30
  Speaker 6: over in a particular location. It could give you a
• 28:33
  Speaker 6: geographic location. It could give you the dynamics. When is
• 28:37
  Speaker 6: she seen as opposed to last seen? And also, did
• 28:41
  Speaker 6: she go over the side? Did the camera pick up anything?
• 28:44
  Speaker 6: Or was there someone else involved in this? Was there
• 28:47
  Speaker 6: a scuffle that was involved because you would pick up
• 28:49
  Speaker 6: two separate infrared signatures at that point in time?
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: Joe Scott, according to Lynette's mother, Darlene Hamlet, Hamlet insists
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: that she believes Lynette Hooker made it back to the boat,
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: not the dinghy, the boat, the soulmate that night. She
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: also states that she is limited in what she can
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: say by the Coast Guard. But if that were true,
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: If she did make it back to the soulmate, what
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: would we be looking for? And could that be what
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: the feds are reconstructing tonight?
• 29:26
  Speaker 6: Yeah, this has been a big area of concern for
• 29:29
  Speaker 6: me because I'm wondering if there were any injuries on
• 29:32
  Speaker 6: her that would have produced any kind of trace evidence
• 29:35
  Speaker 6: such as blood that might be left behind. And you
• 29:38
  Speaker 6: could actually appreciate an area where you make initial point
• 29:42
  Speaker 6: of contact if you're bleeding, if you've left behind trace
• 29:45
  Speaker 6: that wasn't cleaned up or wasn't caught. As we well know,
• 29:49
  Speaker 6: you know, people that perpetrate crimes, they do it like that.
• 29:52
  Speaker 6: And maybe they'll go back and they'll clean. All right.
• 29:55
  Speaker 6: but they don't have the ability to take the time
• 29:57
  Speaker 6: that people in my field have. We can take a
• 30:00
  Speaker 6: vessel like this and dry dock it. We can take
• 30:03
  Speaker 6: our time. We can take hours, days, weeks to go
• 30:05
  Speaker 6: over this thing with a fine-tooth comb. Have they seen
• 30:08
  Speaker 6: something there that would give them an indication that if
• 30:12
  Speaker 6: she did, in fact, make re-entry into the boat, what
• 30:15
  Speaker 6: points of contact do they have along there that we
• 30:18
  Speaker 6: might have deposition of any kind of biological sample?
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: Again, according to family members... Lynette made it back to
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: the soulmate that night. It's likely too late for cadaver
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: dogs to do their magic, or is it? And how
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: would they take apart that boat to find evidence, Joe Scott?
• 30:41
  Speaker 6: It's layer by layer, Nancy. It's like peeling an onion.
• 30:45
  Speaker 6: I hate to be that simplistic, but you have to
• 30:47
  Speaker 6: be very careful on each letter, on each layer that
• 30:51
  Speaker 6: you're talking about, okay, to use the onion analogy. The
• 30:55
  Speaker 6: top points of contact, you have to be really careful
• 30:58
  Speaker 6: assessing them. And then you burrow down to the next level.
• 31:03
  Speaker 6: See if there's anything contact trace that has seeped through
• 31:07
  Speaker 6: at that particular area, so forth and so on. And
• 31:09
  Speaker 6: to your point about cadaver dogs, you're going to have
• 31:14
  Speaker 6: to have, with cadaver dogs, you're going to have to
• 31:17
  Speaker 6: have specific, there's two things that you look for, cadaverine
• 31:23
  Speaker 6: and putrescine. that are chemical byproducts that are put off
• 31:26
  Speaker 6: by things that originate from the human body in the
• 31:29
  Speaker 6: state of decomposition. If there is nothing there to pick
• 31:33
  Speaker 6: up on, the cadaver dogs are not going to help
• 31:36
  Speaker 6: you at this point in time.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: So, Scott, we're also learning tonight that items have been
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: taken reportedly from the soulmate and sent to Quantico. What
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: does that mean to you?
• 31:46
  Speaker 6: Well, that means that the Coasties have been involved in
• 31:49
  Speaker 6: this for a while. By the way, they've got a
• 31:51
  Speaker 6: fantastic investigative service just in and of themselves. And they can,
• 31:55
  Speaker 6: in fact, avail themselves of the resources that the FBI has.
• 32:00
  Speaker 6: And the FBI, it's vast. For folks that have always
• 32:06
  Speaker 6: wondered about Quantico, it is the cutting edge relative to
• 32:10
  Speaker 6: forensic analysis. So all of this stuff has been turned
• 32:13
  Speaker 6: over to them. I mean, let's just think about it, Nancy.
• 32:16
  Speaker 6: Compared to a state where you have a state crime lab,
• 32:19
  Speaker 6: They don't have near the resources that, say, the feds
• 32:22
  Speaker 6: have in Quantico to be able to analyze everything. We're
• 32:25
  Speaker 6: talking about trace, any kind of blood evidence, any kind
• 32:29
  Speaker 6: of fiber evidence that might be there, not to mention
• 32:32
  Speaker 6: all of the digital investigative services they have. I think
• 32:35
  Speaker 6: that that might be one of these issues if we
• 32:38
  Speaker 6: begin to think about the FLIR camera that's coming into
• 32:40
  Speaker 6: play here as well.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: Jessica Morgan, an important piece of the puzzle. If she
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: did go overboard, where? Could that be part of what
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: the feds are investigating tonight?
• 32:54
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I think that it probably is. Because if the
• 32:58
  Speaker 6: husband is actually alleging she did go overboard, Nancy, all right,
• 33:03
  Speaker 6: and she did, you know, wind up in this fatal circumstance,
• 33:08
  Speaker 6: the next question I would be asking him is, oh,
• 33:11
  Speaker 6: she went overboard. What's the most likely position she went
• 33:14
  Speaker 6: overboard at? Okay, tell me, all right?
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: So.
• 33:19
  Speaker 6: If he is saying that, well, potentially she went over
• 33:23
  Speaker 6: right here, all right, I'm going to go over that area,
• 33:26
  Speaker 6: particularly intensely. As a matter of fact, if there's railing there,
• 33:29
  Speaker 6: I might take the whole damn thing apart, bring that
• 33:32
  Speaker 6: back to the lab. Any points of contact around the
• 33:35
  Speaker 6: lower edges of the boat internally and externally, because if
• 33:39
  Speaker 6: somebody flips over, you begin to think about them doing
• 33:42
  Speaker 6: a head strike on the side of the boat. If
• 33:45
  Speaker 6: she was bleeding prior to that in any way, if
• 33:47
  Speaker 6: she had been traumatized in any way, is there a
• 33:50
  Speaker 6: point of contact that would have left behind something in
• 33:53
  Speaker 6: that particular area? I would want to ask any witness
• 33:57
  Speaker 6: that may have information about this and they're saying she
• 34:01
  Speaker 6: went overboard. I'd want to know, well, tell me exactly
• 34:04
  Speaker 6: how you think this happened. Where did it occur? And
• 34:08
  Speaker 6: maybe they can harvest some information from that point.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything regarding Lynette's disappearance,
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: dial toll-free 800-424-8802. We remember an American hero, Trooper Kenneth Velez,
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: Ohio State Patrol, killed in the line of duty after
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: 27 years on the force, leaving behind his wife, Rachel,
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: and children, Devin, Christian, and Andrea. American hero, Trooper Kenneth Velez.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: Thank you. to our guests, but especially to you for
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: being with us tonight. Nancy Gray signing off for tonight,
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: but I'll see you tomorrow night. And until then, good night, friend.