Latest / Our Community, Our Mission / Ep #239 – Hope & Housing: Thoughts from the Kansas Housing Conference

Transcript

Ep #239 – Hope & Housing: Thoughts from the Kansas Housing Conference · Our Community, Our Mission

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Heavenly Father.
• 0:00
  Speaker 1: We thank you, lord, for this day and God, just your blessings.
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: God, thank you for this time and this podcast.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: And Lord, just as always, for all of our listeners.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: God, I pray, your blessing over this conversation and just encouragement to the ears that hear it.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: Father, in your holy name, we pray, amen.
• 0:19
  Speaker 3: Hello everybody.
• 0:19
  Speaker 3: You're listening to Our Community, our mission, a podcast of the Topeka Rescue Mission.
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: I'm Barry Feaker.
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: This is Wednesday, september 11th 2024.
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: Good morning, marian Craypole.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: Good morning.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: How are?
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: you, I'm good.
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: I'm good, I'm going to go ahead and introduce the guy that's going to be with us today.
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: John Roberts, who is Deputy Director of Community Needs and Services here at Topeka Rescue Mission.
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: I wanted to bring you in on this because one of the first things we're going to talk about you were in the first grade when it happened.
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: So everybody, when we hear September 11th, we know what that means.
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: Yes, and so do we know how many years ago September, the September 11th was.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Well, a lot.
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, a whole bunch 23 years ago and honestly that is pretty shocking right Because it doesn't seem that long ago.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: No, no, Right talking.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Right Because it doesn't seem that long ago I mean it's so fresh in memory still.
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: We were just talking.
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: Looking at the day it is, we know exactly where we were, what we were doing.
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: John, you were in the first grade in New Jersey, just what 40 miles or so away from that, and so your memory is going to be vastly different than Miriam and I in regards to that.
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: But so your memory is going to be vastly different than Miriam and I in regards to that.
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: But we do want to pause and recognize that this was a tragic event in America, the whole world, and there's been some other very tragic things that have occurred in the last 23 years as well, and a lot of challenges globally, everything.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: But it's also known as Patriots Day, and so just remembering those who have sacrificed, those who are sacrificing today to keep us safe, to keep us free and, you know, something that strikes me, too, that it would be good for us all to remember is how the country came together during that time, right, oh, how far we've come from being unified in terms of how we, how we, treat each other Right.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: And so I just remember how everybody was just very coalesced right, saying how can this happen on our, our land, right?
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: Um, and so it was.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: It was uh, it was something.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: It really was it?
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: it uh, we didn't know if we were the end of the.
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: It was something it really was.
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: We didn't know if we were the end of the world.
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: Was here, right, it was.
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: For some.
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: We didn't know where we would be able to come out of this.
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: A lot of things economically changed after that in the United States and globally.
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: We've seen a lot of things happen in 23 years.
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: But you're right, we are really at that place in time where we are not unified as a nation.
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: And we need to really be in prayer for safety for our country and our communities and so forth.
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: So that is what September 11th is.
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: This is also podcast number 239.
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: We got Josh Turley back with us today who prayed, who kind of helped start off this thing, and that's why we have really cool mics at work.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: And, uh, you know I do another podcast, Josh, and I'll tell you I appreciate the equipment we have here.
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we're not always having to, uh, switch out stuff, Equipment wise.
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: So thanks for keeping this going.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: You know, to be fair to that, that other podcast.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: You know the fact that you cheat on us, but that other podcast.
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: Another town, not even in Topeka.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: We've had a few years to figure it out.
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: We have.
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: We have, that's true.
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we've learned a few things over the years.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: Yes, we absolutely have.
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: Thank you for the quality and the consistency here.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: Josh, absolutely Keep it going.
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: So, moving on to something that's maybe a little less discouraging, depressing and also in remembers, but it's also National Hot Cross Buns Day.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what?
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: Well, and you know, I'm kind of surprised because I think of hot cross buns being around Easter.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: That's an Easter bread thing, is it?
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what is it?
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: It's bread.
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: Hot Cross Buns Day.
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: I don't know that.
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: I recall that term.
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: Now I'm used to and they have little cross, Little things that you know at the grocery store that you go over and you can get them for, like, still 99 cents.
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: They're little honey buns, you know, and you get a thousand of them put in your microwave and they're really great.
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: Is this the same thing?
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: No, no.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: No, this is better.
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: Well.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: And that's why they're kind of it.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, keep going, they're good for you.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: And they always have just a little bit of frosting on it in an X on the top.
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: I don't know where they come from, that's where, okay, the cross put the X thingy, that little X thing.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: So I don't really know, and I could read this, but I'd have to put it way out here in front of me oh, but see, it's really good with a cup of coffee or a glass of warm milk.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: Well, warm milk, oh, and definitely, definitely butter on them.
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: Okay, all right.
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: Well, so make yourself a hot crust bun today.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: I'll take your nursery rhyme too.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: I think there's a nursery rhyme too.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: Oh, I think you're right.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: I don't know, I'm pretty sure I always think of like a nursery rhyme.
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: So, john, I didn't see you going.
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: Wow, I can't wait to get one of those.
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you're not there.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe in celebration of the holiday.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: Okay, all right.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: All right, he'll wait till Easter, always an excuse to eat some bread.
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: So we can all agree on this last one and again research and development department that works very diligently week to week to bring us these important things about the special things of today.
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: Obviously Patriots Day, national Hot Cross Buns Day I missed it on that one, guys, but this one everybody agrees to no news is good news day.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: Absolutely Amen.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: No news is good news day.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, marked every year on September 11th, because if you're not hearing something really bad, it's good news and these days if you listen to the news, you're going to hear something bad.
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: That's true.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: It's not like there's a day when it isn't happening that way.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: And if you don't find it you'll go looking for it, Right?
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: So okay, Well, that kind of sets the stage for some really good news, and that is that, John Miriam, you both went to a pretty important and informative and helpful seminar meeting, conference about housing.
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: We did.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: But you know what, Barry?
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Before that, I'm going to talk about something else.
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: What are you going to talk about, Miriam?
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: That we have a big event coming up If that does not get your attention.
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: Miriam Crable just stopped me right in the middle of my next trend Everybody.
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: This is not the first time, nor the last time, and maybe not the first time today, but anyway, miriam, I am so sorry.
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: There is a big event and it's about housing in a way, but it's, it's.
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: It's even bigger than housing.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: Well because?
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: Well, because the title or the theme for the event is the Journey Home right.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: So this is really about a night of praise for us to come together to worship the Lord, to have folks really learn about TRM and all that.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: We do be able to support us in different ways.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: People.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: There's no charge for tickets or anything like that.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: It's on, let me.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: Let me give the basics, though.
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: It's on September the 22nd at 6 PM at Fellowship Bible Church.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: You were reading my mind, weren't you?
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: I was See we've been doing this a bit and we have three bands, worship bands from different churches coming to help us the Topeka Bible Church Praise and Worship Band, the Topeka Bible Church Praise and Worship Band, fellowship Bible Church Praise and Worship Band, and then the Praise and Worship Band from River of Life Family Worship Center.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: But wait, there's more.
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: There's more.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: How can there be more?
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, we have SJ Hazim, who will be there doing poetry.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: He just does such an amazing job.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: He makes it so real and so personal, and Danielle Norwood is going to be emceeing the event Everybody's favorite neighbor.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: I know she's wonderful.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: And then we also have John the Iron man Cantrell who's going to be there with us?
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: My buddy.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: He's such a great guy and has been so supportive of TRM in so many different ways he's agreed to fight me.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: Barry, he has, yeah, okay.
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: He's undefeated right.
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: So we've got this agreement.
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: We're good friends, okay.
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: So I said I got to agree with you and try this on sometime.
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: And I said, but I've got to win.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: So he said at the very last fight when he's gone, he'll do that Like when he's really old, he'll take the dive for me.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: Okay, I'm a little bit concerned.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: How's your?
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: Is your insurance up to date?
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: Well, I'm planning on not fighting him until I don't really need insurance anymore.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: Okay, okay, so you're okay.
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: Well, we're still going to pray for you, barry.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: I said I'll fight you but you can't hit me in the face.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: No, you don't want to ruin the pretty face.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: No, everybody loves.
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: Iron man John Cantrell.
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: What a cool dude.
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: He's a really great guy.
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: He's got a cool lineup there.
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: We have a wonderful, wonderful night planned, but again, I really want to emphasize that the main focus is really just to praise the Lord.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: He is so good to all of us, everyone here at TRM.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: He always makes sure that things that we need are provided for, and this is a way that people get to help God work in that way, because we are really looking at situations where food and our ability to pass food out or hand food out on Tuesdays and Thursdays when we do our community distribution, it's tight, it's really tight.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: So people can bring shelf-stable foods.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: You know whether that be pasta and pasta sauce and canned meats, you know whether it be chicken or tuna.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: Peanut butter and jelly is a huge staple for us.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: There's just so many things that are shelf-stable that we need Canned vegetables, all those things that are sort of just normal for us to think about, even things like SpaghettiOs or ravioli in pop-top cans, because some of the people that come to us don't have equipment like a can opener.
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: Well, some don't have a place to warm it up, so it's good that they can eat right out of the can too, right.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: Absolutely so.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: All of those things.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: If people can bring those along, that would be wonderful.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: We're also looking for baby items, whether it's formula or diapers, all of those things that the littlest ones need, and we do serve an incredible number of families that have little kiddos, so we are really looking forward to this.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: It's on again on September, the 22nd.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: That's just around the corner like 11 days from now that makes me a little nervous, but we're doing great.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: But there's all kinds of opportunities and ways to help.
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: Well, if you went last year, you know it was amazing.
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: This year has been even better.
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: So there are a lot of people there.
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: Last year, come, come early, get a seat.
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: Fellowship's got a lot do, but come and you'll be blessed to just be a part of something that's really positive in our community.
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: In regards to that is good news, absolutely yeah.
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: So it's the journey home, and we are going to talk about housing for a little bit.
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: Today, john, you and Miriam went to this conference.
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm, john, you're fairly new at Topeka Rescue Mission, considering some, but you came here as an intern with Washburn and you stayed on and worked in the men's services.
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: You then have been moved into this much larger responsibility of community needs and services, and so that's distribution center.
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: That's one of those things.
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: So, miriam, when you decided to go to this housing conference, why did you take John?
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: How's this networking together?
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: What's a guy that's helping out with the food, community needs and services?
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: How does that work with housing?
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: Well, actually right now, because you know things that TRM never stay constant, right, I know it's.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: It's a shock, but John and I are actually now going to be overseeing housing because of some big grants that have come in and really looking at how we need to do this.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: Really well, john and I got assigned to make sure that we were up to speed on everything we needed to be up to speed on.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: This conference helped that.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: It may not have gotten us fully there yet.
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: So when you say overhousing obviously Topeka Risk Commission shelters people overnight You're not talking about that kind of housing.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: No, I'm talking about long-term or what some people will call permanent housing, where we help people get back into the mainstream of where they live, so whether that's an apartment or a house or a group home, depending on what their needs are.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: Trm has a whole team of folks that helps them do that and through grants we're able to help them with rent, with case management, which, Barry, frankly, I think if John and I heard anything, it's the critical nature of continuing on with case management after people are housed Absolutely.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: Because they just need our support in different kinds of ways.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: So it's just exciting that we get to do all this.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we love it and to me it's one of the coolest things we do at TRM.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, why Is?
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: get people back?
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: Well, because it means that people have a different level of hope for how they see their future.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: When you can see yourself back in what some of us think of as traditional housing versus couch hopping or living down by the river, you know that people are looking at things in a different way and valuing themselves in the way that, at least in a closer way, like what God values.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: All of us right, If Imago Dei, if we truly are made in his image.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: All of these people are made in his image too, and I am just always excited when they have been able to find a little bit of that again.
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I think a lot of times we think of people who are experiencing homelessness is the solution is get them in shelter, and we don't take it down to the next level sometimes or up the next level, and that is shelter is a stop gap to help people to be able to get house.
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: And so you have to have systems and programs and available housing and accessible housing.
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: We talked last week with Pedro Concepcion, you know, it's not low income housing, it's not affordable housing, it's accessible housing or attainable, attainable, attainable that's the best word.
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, john, working in the shelters before, as you know, just lots and lots of people coming in.
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: Shelter's not the end of the road, is it?
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: No, it's a place to go to get somewhere.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: Right yeah and definitely, you know, in the shelter I mean what we call it is emergency shelter.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: So what we're trying to do is find somebody who tonight needs somewhere to go where that's safe, that's stable, and provide that.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: But obviously that's not a place to stay permanently you know, and so, um, our housing team does a great job, our case managers, before of helping people um realize what things do we need to work on, what things need to get in order, so that um then move back into their own independent living situation where they have a place that is really their own and that is comfortable, that is safe and, like you were talking about, miriam, that sense of dignity.
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: And sometimes, when we say back into, it's been a long, long time, you know, maybe years since somebody's had a home to be in.
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: So for those that want to help them to understand some why so somebody maybe has been temporarily homeless, or episodic it's brand new, it hasn't been very long or somebody who's been what we call chronically homeless.
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: They've been out there for extended periods of time without a place to go.
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: What are some of the barriers between streets or couch surfing or even emergency shelter to get people housed?
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: Go ahead, John.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, sometimes you hear these stereotypes or just these statements, right, well, why don't they just come in, get a job and get a house right?
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: But oftentimes it's not that straight easy or straightforward or easy.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: There's complications that could prevent someone from going right into back into housing, such as Could be loss of needing to have a job.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: Well, to have a job, you need ID.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: You need a driver's license or birth certificate, and those don't just pop out of the air, do they Right?
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: And they take time.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: Even if, when you order one, it might take four to six weeks to get that in, Well, now you can go look for a job.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: When you order one, it might take four to six weeks to get that in.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: Well, now you can go look for a job, you know.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: So you might be waiting four to six weeks to have your ID so that you can go look for a job.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: And once you get a job, one of the barriers to housing is outstanding debt due to a circumstance in the past could be years old, but if there's money owed to a utility company electric, water well, they're not going to turn on new utilities for you until that debt's paid off.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: And so there are some times that people need to work and build up money to pay off that debt.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: Before then they can realistically look to go back into housing, because we don't want to put someone into a place that's not going to have lights or water.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: Right, that's not going to set them up for success.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: So that can be another thing.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: That just takes time to be able to have time at our emergency shelter to get that debt paid down so that when they're ready to move out they have amenities.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: Another barrier is there has to actually be housing to place people in Right.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: And for them.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: So I mean, barry, I think we could just stack up the barriers that there are and it's why people become disillusioned and hopeless and feeling like it's never going to happen for me, and then that may bring about different kinds of things.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: It may bring about self-medicating or issues with addiction.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: There may be mental health issues involved, but I think one thing that John and I both heard from Dr Greg Colburn was we tend to want to have a single cause for why people are homeless and that's just not the reality.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: So how do we help people understand how complicated and complex this is what some of those barriers are?
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: But honestly, just general community understanding, in my mind, of what homelessness is and those experiencing homelessness, what they're facing is a barrier.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: The community's lack of knowledge or lack of understanding might be the biggest barrier, because then it becomes an emotional issue and people, when there could be solutions, people don't want that in their backyard.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: People don't want to spend money on this.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: People want, like John said, they think people just need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, and they're talking about people that may not even have boots right.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: I heard that at the conference People want people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, but there's no boots right.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: So our expectations of what people can do and what they're facing are very unrealistic.
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: So how does a better understanding of what someone who is homeless, what they're experiencing because it's not one size fits all, it's not the same with everybody how is it going to help the community to better understand their situation, to get them housed?
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: Well, I think with understanding, or a better concept of the challenges, we can think through solutions more effectively, because we're not just trying to placate or overcome the misperceptions.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: Now, if everybody could have a clearer understanding, it changes how conversations can happen and it can bring different partners to the table, because when you understand, then you can see yourself having a role in solutions, right.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: So that, to me, is why having a better understanding, the general community, having a better understanding of what folks are facing and what this all is but I think that's my basic reason on why I think it's so important- I think that's right.
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: I think that you know, like, who cares.
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: Well, we should all care if we want something to change.
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: And why do we want a thing to change?
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: Well, it's better to understand the why in order to know what the best change is.
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: And, in a community, coming around to seeing those people as us will help us to be able to be better us's together.
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: You know, there's an argument out here.
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: It's really not much of an argument, but there is.
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: Well, we have a lot of abandoned homes in Topeka, kansas, that are sitting there.
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: Why don't you just give them one?
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: So what's wrong with that picture?
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: So she said there are housing shortages.
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: There's a lot of abandoned homes here in Topeka, the vacant homes.
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: So I know Miriam talk to me like I know nothing.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: Well, barry, if they're abandoned, they're probably not in good shape.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: So let me come at it from a different direction.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: I think that's actually not a bad idea If we were to be able to find the resources to come in and restore all these abandoned homes to a safe and decent environment.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: That actually could potentially help the situation, not just for people experiencing homelessness, but people who are having a difficult time staying in housing.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: Anytime you increase the inventory whether it's for low income, medium income, et cetera it goes back to that.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: We need attainable housing for people at all income levels, right, and so maybe, maybe that's not a bad idea If we could come up with the resources to say okay, somehow we're going to take all of these homes that are in disrepair and abandon and we're going to make them something better.
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: So I just heard you say, in regards to the attainable housing, it's not just for people who are homeless that there's a need there.
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: There's a need for attainable housing, let's, if you want to call it, affordable housing for people who are working full-time jobs, maybe even professional jobs, these days because of the cost of housing.
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: Uh, this other place where I do a podcast, they were talking about firefighters having a hard time finding housing in Lawrence, kansas, think about.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: It's affordable, think about that.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: So we don't usually think of those as poverty wages, right Right.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: But when the housing market has become so so far out of reach and property taxes are going up so much kind of.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: Thing you have people who earn decent wages that cannot afford to be in housing.
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: So now we can relate all of us, I think a little bit more into the value of housing.
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: Unless you're very, very wealthy and you don't think about these things, which most of us aren't, we begin to realize.
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: The rent's gone up, the property taxes has gone up, my house payment's gone up, interest rates have gone up, everything has gone up, and so how much can we really then begin to relate to people that have no place to go and the value and importance of that?
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: So I think it kind of went a long way around what you had said, but I think it's important that we understand some of the why.
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: It's not just for them, it is for us to be able to examine.
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: So you went to this housing conference, a statewide housing conference, it's an annual conference, and there was something you said I want to come back to in regards to the importance of case management.
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: But there was an individual there by the name of Greg Colburn which has a book called Homelessness is a Housing Problem, terrible title.
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: I told him that personally myself and I told him, but yet I'm a convert.
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: When I had the chance to visit with him, I knew you would be.
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I read the book, it's great when I had the chance to visit with him.
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I read the book.
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: It's great, mr Colburn, he's a researcher, analyst, who has really looked at the communities that have accessible housing, attainable housing, compared to those that don't, and it really has nothing to do with poverty.
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: It has everything to do with housing stock and safe, attainable housing.
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: And he looks at some of those areas of the country where, like Detroit is one of the things I remember out of his book that has one of the higher poverty rates in the United States, but they do not have the highest homeless rates.
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: And so we look at those things through those kind of researches and we say, okay, maybe we've looked at this the wrong way, maybe we need to look at it in a way that's more scientific.
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: That will help us to have better decisions.
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: So I know that's one of the things that I learned from Greg, a very humble man.
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: He knows it's not just a housing issue.
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: It's not about this terminology that's still used today, which I think people misinterpret housing first.
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: It's housing first, with a lot of other things first as well.
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: I remember having a conversation with the regional director of HUD a number of years ago and he says well, what do you believe?
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: Is it housing?
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: Is it mental health?
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: Is it addiction?
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: Is it compound trauma?
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: Is it mental health?
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: Is it addiction?
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: Is it compound trauma?
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: Is it low wages?
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: Is it job training?
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: Which is it?
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: And I said, yes, it's the whole package.
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: And so, john, in your experience, before working with the folks coming in, you try to address the whole package here at Topeka Rescue Mission, to be able to understand what those barriers are, to try to fill in those gaps, to help people then to get across the finish line into housing.
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: So you guys went to this housing program.
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: It wasn't just Greg Colburn who spoke about homelessness as a housing problem.
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: What else was the conference about?
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there were all sorts of different smaller workshops.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: Some of them are models of affordable housing or attainable housing that other cities are utilizing.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: Some of them is challenges that renters or home buyers face.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: And so, understanding some of that and it was really valuable, I'll say, going along with what you were kind of just saying, barry, that everybody's situation is different.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: Right, it's all of the above, and so nobody has the same story that, oh, if they're kind of, come into the shelter, this is why they're there, and so that case management piece is so crucial to see what specific things for the individual in front of us, what are they going to need supports with or who can they be connected with, and that will look different for everybody.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: And so just being able to sit in and hear and sometimes it's from property managers or property owners or some of the different lawmakers with housing rights and things like that, hearing some of the challenges that people going into rental situations may face, learning about the rights that they have, some of the accommodations or requirements that apartment complexes must provide their tenants, that was really valuable for me to learn more about so that, as we're helping people navigate these situations, and especially once they're housed, and we're continuing that case management piece that if barriers start coming up, just so that we have a better understanding of what their rights are, what kind of situations, but also what resources are there to help accommodate and smooth that transition.
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: I can see how all that would be very, very helpful to understand the challenges and what some of the current things are in regards to protocol rights, in regards to housing.
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: We can go to these conferences and we can hear all of the challenges.
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: Would you come out with it, maybe, with some hope?
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: What can we do other than say, oh, here's the problem.
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: What can we do to fix the problem?
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: Well, Barry, that's a good question Because I will answer your question.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: I sound like I'm on one of the political debates, but first let me say this I'll tell you what?
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: There was?
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: A lot of feelings of people being totally overwhelmed with the need.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: Case managers, providers.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, and even in some cases, developers who run into roadblocks right within the city as they're trying to to develop housing that's appropriate, all those kinds of things.
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: So there was a lot of that.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: But, to answer your question, I think the thing that was encouraging for me is there is incredible opportunity for each one of us to be able to make a difference.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: By by being knowledgeable, by also talking with our government officials, whether it's at the fed level, the state level, the County level, the city level, we can help bring about change in how hard it is to get permits or all these different kinds of things.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: We can have a voice that can make a difference and all of us together can have a powerful voice.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: Right Me as a one, one person show, maybe not so much, but if the three of us together can have a powerful voice, right Me as a one person show maybe not so much, but if the three of us, if you and I and John, went to talk to a city council person or two or three city council people or county commissioners or whatever, and said here's the situation, here's how it's impacting us economically and here's what you can do to help this be better, just don't be a barrier Providers are in that space Lots of different kind of providers here, General citizen is not in that space, so I'm housed why?
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: should I care.
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: Why is it important to me, as a general citizen, to be a part of really caring that people have affordable housing?
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: I'm housed, so why?
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: Well, here's one thing I heard why business should care Because homes are where business folks go when the business is closed.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: Say that again Homes are where business goes after business is closed.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: That is a great statement, Right, and I don't remember who said it Might've been Greg Colburn, Dr Colburn but it's like we all have some reason to care, right.
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: It may be that because we follow Christ.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: It may be that because we follow Christ, that we are compelled to take care of those who have less right the widows, the poor, people living in poverty, people in prison, etc.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: We are called to do that.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: Economically, you want to have a solid economy across the whole level of the community, right?
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: So that's why I care.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: If I really want a riverfront development, then I need to care about people that might find that that is the only place they have to live.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: So there could be all different motivations for why people care, but I don't think any of us can't care.
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: I think that we all, if we've got any income at all, we've got a job or we've got some type of payment that's coming in to go to business to be able to buy the stuff that we want to buy, and oftentimes we think of the grocery store as just a place with food, but there's actually people that keep food on the shelves that need to have a place to go, right?
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: I think that some people have been shocked that there are people that work in some of our retail establishments that live on the streets, right, yeah, isn't that?
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: crazy, absolutely I'd be sacking your groceries tonight.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: That have no place to go because they can't afford it, even in our small communities.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: That are around Northeast Kansas, in our small communities where the price of housing, the vacancy rate, as they call it, the availability of housing has diminished, to where people are working in a retail establishment I won't name them, but I know it's fact that they're living in their car in the parking lot of the place that they work.
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: So it is important for all of us to some degree that we have a place for businesses to go at night, the people that work in businesses to be able to come back tomorrow.
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's huge.
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: So I mean, that's one of many.
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: And so what else did you learn?
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: In addition, we want to make sure we touch on the importance of case management, but what else really came out of that housing conference that you think is going to be beneficial to TRM and the community of Topeka?
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you know, one of the things that was also neat is just seeing what other people in other cities are doing, and so one of the presentations that I sat through was about an ultra affordable housing development supportive housing that has opened up in Springfield, Missouri, and so they were talking about how they went through that process, some of the challenges that they've faced, but also the success they've seen and the model that they have used that is now being copied by other cities around the country.
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: What do you recall about that model?
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: That was unique.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it is a.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: They were able to house 30 people, so they have a.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: In their situation it was kind of a gated community.
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: Like a little village of some kind.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: Correct, and so it's subsidized housing so that they're able to keep the rent what they call ultra affordable and people coming out of experiencing homelessness.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: So it's subsidized housing so that they're able to keep the rent what they call ultra affordable and people coming out of experiencing homelessness can get plugged into this community.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: It is a safe, secure community that has supports coming to that community and it was.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: It has really just been a success both to get people into housing and then um their success rate of people being able to stay um in that program and those in that facility and have independent living um at an affordable rate um has has just still.
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: Something I think I heard you say is it's also supportive.
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: They're just not there on their own, but there is the services that maybe they need.
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: Just because you get housing doesn't mean that your mental illness is cured, your addiction goes away, your compound trauma for whatever you've been through, whatever the case might be, it doesn't mean that those all disappear.
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: So being able to glean some of those ideas and insights could be done here too just or just the thing you know to get to, to be able to pick the brain of people who have, you know, done some of the um, the legwork and they and the other thing I think it just really demonstrated was that you need people at all levels working together on this you can't just have social service providers caring about this, or just property developers or property managers or city officials.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: You need city planners, you need everybody across all of these spheres working together, and I was encouraged seeing that happen, seeing people from all of those different backgrounds and professions from all across the state coming together and seeing how many smart people are working about this and thinking about this and just hopefully building up some of those connections so that we can all get on the same page and work together, because no one sector of the community can tackle this problem no silos, logos or egos have to come together on this.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: You know, someone else I heard was a gentleman by the name of Damon Young from the Kansas Leadership Center that was talking about civic leadership and he made a comment.
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: He said that right now we're kind of living in an industrial contempt complex where it's not just about being right, it's about being righteous, it's not just about wrong but evil it with us as consumers of one-sided, siloed fear and hate right.
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: So it's no longer that you and I just don't agree.
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: Well, now you're wrong and you're being hateful and you're.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: I have this righteous anger because I'm right and you're not.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: So it's a situation where we've come so far that it can't even be now that iron sharpens iron right Because we can't even get that close together, and that if we don't really engage in some civic leadership that is positive and that brings about taking high conflict to good conflict, taking it to that place where we can have conflict but it's healthy and we can make progress from it because we can find common ground, None of these kinds of situations can really come to a positive resolution as quickly.
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: So, in order for this to be successful, we've got to do some change in here and how we're currently working together, and until we do that, this probably won't work Right.
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: And gosh, that's probably one of the biggest challenges we face right now.
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: And I'll tell you he had this part where he was talking about look, if somebody is really passionate about something on the opposite side of what you believe, don't tell them why they're wrong.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: Ask them why they care, because then you'll probably get down to the root of where they're coming from, right, so is it fear?
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: What is it kind of thing?
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: If you just ask them, so tell me why you care about this.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: You're not making a judgment when you ask them that.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: You're just asking why do you care?
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: One of the encouraging things I think that we're seeing here and we did this a couple of podcasts ago was talking about the campaigned in chronic homelessness, topeka, shawnee County, and, uh, we had Brett Martin here and I was in.
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: You guys interviewed us, or LaManda did, and it was.
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: It was one of those things that I think that what we've experienced and, miriam, you've been involved with this on the front end as well People are actually saying we want to do something together, and I think that that's a really, really good start.
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: In our community, yes, we have many barriers, but we do have people that want to see those barriers go down For many, many different reasons, which has been talked about here businesses go home, you know those kind of things but also for what everybody wants to try to figure out what does it mean to have social determinants of health, which is safety?
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: What is it that we need to do to be a safe and healthy community, which I think that everybody goes?
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I want that, and so we have to examine what risk we have of not being that, to be able to try to do something about that that we're at risk with.
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: So one last thing the value importance of this thing called case management, which, breaking it down, is positive, healthy relationships, of helping people navigate through life.
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: Talk about that importance of folks that are coming into the shelter, people who are on the streets, people once they get housed.
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: Why that's important.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it just.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, first and foremost, it just helps people know that they're not alone.
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: So it's not just well, get into emergency shelter and figure it out, you know.
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: Or well, now you're in a house, you know happy trails, you know, see you later.
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: It's letting having someone walk by you through these things and just another person to bounce ideas off of or to troubleshoot problems or challenges that arise is so important.
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: And so it's just a person to help encourage, to help connect.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: Sometimes there are resources out there but people just don't know where to look.
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: They don't know how to, where to find, but people just don't know where to look.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: They don't know what, how to, where to find them, or they don't know they may have trouble.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: I need to fill out an application or do this online and there might be some technology literacy that might be a challenge there.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: And so just having someone to navigate that process, connect them with resources, point them in the right direction, troubleshoot ideas, and then just to be a human in relationship, right, and to be able just to have as simple as how was your day today?
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: Tell me about it, how are things going at work?
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: How are you liking your new apartment, being able to talk through those things so that people don't feel like they're isolated.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: And then maybe you know, maybe there could be an urge then, if they're feeling isolated, to return to what they know Right, even if it's not the healthiest option.
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: So just someone to stay, help, keep on track, to support, to connect.
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: All of those things are why it's so crucial.
• 41:35
  Speaker 3: Maybe we're going to have to get to that place more and more, not that we're not there to some degree, that it's not just the professionals that do the supportive help.
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: It is people who care about people getting in their lives to help them.
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: I think that the three of us um, anybody who's listening um would um, if we examined it, we didn't get where we are on our own.
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: I don't think there is a self-made man or woman, if we look back, of all the journey and the people that were involved in our lives.
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: John, you came through this institution called Washburn University and came into the place called the Rescue Mission.
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: Miriam, you and I have been through so many different institutions that they ought to name one after us, but probably.
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: But you know all the people in our lives that have been there for us so that when we realize that that is God's system, you know what we do for others is more important to him than anything.
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: It really is to recognize what he's doing for us.
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: You talked about that in Night of Praise you know, recognizing the God of the universe who has done so much for us and and, and then how he has said I want you to go and do likewise, and so that is our opportunity.
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: That is the key.
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: This polarization of a nation over politics or whatever issues there are is not the heart of God.
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: It is not how it's going to fix problems.
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: And so, when we talk about homelessness in this community, to take it further and see the successes that are already occurring in a much greater way as we all do this together.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: So, miriam, john, thanks for taking time out to go to the housing conference.
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: I think you guys brought back a lot of great ideas.
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: We didn't unpack even a part of them today, but it's going to really help here at Topeka Rescue Mission.
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: It's going to help in our community Other people from the community went there as well to be a safer, healthier community where we're all able to see our businesses go home and then go back to business future.
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: One more time, miriam, night of praise.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: September, the 22nd, 6 pm, fellowship Bible Church.
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: Right around the corner it's the September 11th, so just a few days from now.
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: So hope that you can attend on that and information will be coming more out on Facebook about that if you want to see on that.
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: So thank you for being a part of this discussion on housing and so much more.
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: Today, no news is good news except the news you hear right here on our community, our mission.
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: So thank you for being a part of this and God bless you.