Latest / Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast / MBA Wire Taps 454: Wharton’s TBD, Entrepreneur, 337 GRE. Consulting to Finance

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MBA Wire Taps 454: Wharton’s TBD, Entrepreneur, 337 GRE. Consulting to Finance · Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Foreign welcome to the Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast. I'm Graham Richmond and this is your Wiretaps for Monday, November 3, 2025. M Emory University's full time MBA powers growth in your career, your leadership and your future. Built on a foundation of cross functional problem solving, leadership development and career readiness, this top 20 MBA program delivers a high return on investment with top five career outcomes. Step into a global network that's connected by design and supportive by nature. Explore the Emory MBA at Emory Biz. ClearAdmit. That's Emory Biz slash ClearAdmit. I'm joined by Alex Brown from Cornwall, England. Alex, how are things?
• 0:58
  Speaker B: Oh, good, Graham, Very good.
• 1:00
  Speaker A: So, yeah, give me, give me the rundown because last week was another pretty busy week, right? I mean, how are things going on Livewire and anything else you're picking up on?
• 1:07
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, Sloan released its interview invites which as we predicted, they're typically towards the back end of the top schools to release those interview invites. So they did that on Monday, it looks like based off of Livewire activity, we're recording this a little bit earlier in the week's Wednesday. So I'm expecting Johnson to release some interview invites to have released interview invites towards the back end of the week. And then this upcoming week we have Oxford and Insead actually have application deadlines and Washington Olin is scheduled to release its round one decision. So a few of the schools are actually starting to release decisions. I know we've seen some early action decisions coming out, but some of the schools are starting to release round one decisions.
• 1:58
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. This is, you know, it's kind of a little bit of a low where people are doing their interviews. But then, you know, we're getting, before we know it, we're going to be, as you say, in decision season. And I know we have those decision weeks in December where all the top schools kind of come. Yeah, a couple of housekeeping notes. But we're going to dive right into the main segments, you know, today because we want to cover this Wharton team based discussion. But before we do that, we do have an event this Wednesday, November 5th at noon Eastern. It's for candidates applying to deferred enrollment MBAs. I think most of our listeners know that if you're still in college, you can apply to business school as a senior, lock in a spot, go off and work for anywhere from two to in some cases five years and then, you know, head off to business school and have that, you know, spot in the MBA program set, which is a really terrific offering. So we're going to sit down actually this week on Wednesday and next week, same time, Wednesday, November 12th, we're going to sit down. We have a group of schools joining us and I, I'm like wildly underprepared but I, I have the list of schools. I can't tell you which ones are this week and which ones are next, but I think it's Tepper, Wharton and Darden this week and then Berkeley, Chicago, Booth, Columbia and Yale next week. So these are all really fantastic MBA programs. If you are currently an undergrad or know anyone who's an undergrad, alert them to this opportunity to connect with top programs. Deferred enrollment is really cool. It's something I always say I wish I'd known about or well, not known about. I wish it had existed when I applied to business school because it's a really great way to lock in your spot and then go into your early career with a little more flexibility.
• 3:32
  Speaker B: Very good.
• 3:33
  Speaker A: So to sign up for those ventures go to clearadmit.com events. Otherwise, Alex, as I mentioned, we're going to focus today. We're still do a couple of candidate reviews as usual, part of the wiretaps portion. But we're going to talk about Wharton's team based discussion. You know, how it works, what's new this year and what you can do to kind of prepare and, and you know, just do your best. And I will say before you tune out, if you're someone who didn't apply to Wharton, the tips that we're going to give here are quite relevant, not only potentially for other interview situations or sort of teamwork things, but even when you go off to business school. Because what Wharton's trying to do with the team based discussion is replicate the kind of learning group or learning team that you see often in business school. So it's definitely, I think worthwhile staying tuned here. We get into it. But Alex, they released their invites last week or now, I guess almost two weeks ago and we just got our hands on the prompt. So we'll kind of go through everything. Do you want to, I don't know if you want to talk us through. You know, we have this sort of quick refresher on what the team based discussion is. Do you want to talk a little bit about that?
• 4:36
  Speaker B: Sure. And, and I'll keep this bit, bit brief because obviously everyone that's been invited should understand the parameters. But basically Wharton several years ago decided to change how they were doing interviews. That's fair enough. It's not something that I would buy into Myself, but that's completely irrelevant. So basically the team based discussion is five or six folks that are invited into this sort of team dynamic and so forth. And you're given a prompt and I'm sure Graham will tell us what this year's prompt is and to develop an idea to respond to the prompt. And then the team has to sort of come up with a coherent idea that's based off of the five ideas that are brought to the table. And in that way it mimics a team based experience at Wharton. That's sort of the idea. And the students are effectively evaluated on how they perform in that environment. And then following that will be a short one to one interview of which two themes generally come up in the one to one interview. The sort of the why mba, why now, why Wharton as a theme as well as potentially feedback on their experience in that team based discussion.
• 6:20
  Speaker A: Yeah, that's a good summary. And just as a reminder, Wharton interviews about 40% of, you know, people who apply and then only about a third, you know, are admitted after that. So just to give, you know, give you those numbers, I think, you know, this is, you're right. You and I are we, you know, this, this has been around a long time now. But you and I are on the record as not being huge fans of it because we think it may create sort of incentives for, I don't know, it just. I, I'll never forget the candidate who wrote to us and said, oh, I had my team based discussion. And he's like, everyone was so nice to each other, you know, because everyone's trying to, to sort of, you know, not be a pariah or something. Right. So everyone's like, you know, he said it was like we took the caps off our pen and everyone was like patting themselves on the back for such a great job at getting started with our, you know, our work or something. So in any event. But yeah, so the team based discuss discussion. I will actually, I'll read out this year's prompt because I think it is useful and I'll just give a quick review of that. So it says Wharton sends this to everyone who's invited. It's not publicly kind of, you know, put on their website, but this is what everyone who got an interview invitation got. It says leadership development at Wharton integrates scholarship, relationships and experience that connect knowledge with action. The McNulty Leadership Program serves as the hub for this work, offering an expansive portfolio of experiential learning opportunities and including MBA leadership ventures. Ventures facilitate self discovery, leadership and character development. Participants are able to step out of their comfort zone, exceed personal limitations and experience leadership firsthand. One key offering within the Venture Portfolio is the Leadership Intensive. Each Leadership Intensive is a consolidated, immersive, group based experience lasting one to two days. So here's the prompt. They say, wharton invites your team to propose a new Leadership Intensive to address increasing student interest. The LI proposed should be designed for Wharton MBA students and operate within a pilot budget of $25,000. All costs, including partner fees, facilitator payments, site or equipment rentals, and materials must stay within this total amount. Transportation logistics will be arranged by Wharton or outside the scope of your team's planning and budget. And it then says the program should be structured around a central theme that articulates and reinforces fundamental leadership principles. These principles will inform the program's design and delivery with the goal of producing specific, demonstrable learning outcomes. Consider how progress toward these learning outcomes will be assessed to determine whether participants have internalized and applied the intended skills and insights. So that's. That's the assignment. I mean, that's a mouthful. Alex and I always read this and I'm like, wow, you know, it's a lot. You're going to have to get up to speed on what the, you know, what are these Leadership intensives? What are the ones that currently exist and you know, start brainstorming. But it is a lot of work. And I was joking with you the other day, I wonder if Wharton uses these at all. Like, they always ask students to do something like this for TBDs, and I wonder if they ever note them, if they get a good idea to sort of, you know, take into the real curriculum at Wharton. But anyway, that's maybe beside the point, but it's an interesting assignment.
• 9:23
  Speaker B: Yeah, you would hope they would, right?
• 9:25
  Speaker A: Yeah. And I will say I think we've talked about this too, but I think some of this is about getting candidates jazzed up about all the stuff that Wharton has on offer. Right. I mean, so there's a little bit of marketing happening here.
• 9:38
  Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. No doubt in my mind. But, but let's talk about. All right, so. So how should folks respond to this? And we've been back and forth on slack and, you know, giving each other some guidance as we prepare for this, this podcast. Yeah, I think that's very good. My, my number one sort of bit of guidance would be there is no excuse not to show up well prepared.
• 10:06
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 10:07
  Speaker B: Now I know sometimes goes back and forth on, on the notion of over preparation and scripting and so on and so forth. When getting ready for interviews. But if you think about it, these folks or Wharton is trying to simulate a team based discussion, a team based environment. So you're not going to show up to your learning team at Wharton when your learning team's talking about a case study or whatever it might be without the requisite preparation, or at least you shouldn't. So you will be evaluated by to some extent in terms of how well prepared you are.
• 10:49
  Speaker A: Right, Yeah, I agree. I had that person on my learning team who would come having not done the work and that was not fun. Yeah, no, I agree.
• 10:56
  Speaker B: So, so, so you've got to come up with a really good concept, I think, and I think this was quite tricky in the past to come up with a good concept or leadership, whatever it's called.
• 11:13
  Speaker A: Leadership intensive.
• 11:14
  Speaker B: Yeah, intensive. Yeah, yeah. But, but it's not that tricky anymore, right? Use Chat GPT however you decide to use it. It's a great brainstorming tool. Right. There's obviously a lot of controversy on how we should use Gen AI, you know, in education, how we should use it in admissions, etc. Etc. But I don't think anyone doubts its veracity or whatever the right word is in how good it can be as a brainstorming tool. So my first thought would be take that prompt that Graham read out and, and put it into ChatGPT with some instruction, maybe go off to Wharton's website too to find some past examples, etc. Etc. And ask Chat GPT to come up with three good concepts that in detail follow the parameters or whatever you call it, the constraints that this prompt provides, I don't think there's any excuse. All five or all six folks in that team based discussion should come with really well developed ideas.
• 12:33
  Speaker A: I agree. Yeah, and I think so. So when we talk about preparation for the tbd, as you say, like read and understand the prompt. Work with ChatGPT to come up with ideas. You know, I, I think obviously work on your pitch too and I think that's what you're getting at. You know, I think you need. So the way that this works from a structure standpoint is everyone arrives, right? We said there's, it's all virtual, so you're in a zoom or whatever it is with five or six students. And the way the thing starts is each person has to go around and share their idea and then the team has to work together to come up with a single idea, usually from by selecting one of the five or six or morphing, you know, some traits of different ones. Into a single idea for a leadership intensive. So you gotta have your elevator pitch ready. It's usually you just get about a minute. And that means you have to have a really clear structure and keep it, you know, concise, relevant, and very much aligned to the prompt. Right. So, but you're right. I mean, you do not want to show up under prepared. It would look bad and suggest that you might not be a good learning teammate. And you want to make a compelling pitch now. Yeah, I think, you know, so you got to do the research. And I would also argue before in terms of preparation, and we'll get into what to do based on how the discussion goes. But in terms of preparation, one other thing I wanted to add is that I think it's useful to think about your role on a team. Like, what's the role that you normally take on when you work in teams? Are you a facilitator? Are you an idea generator? Are you someone who's really good at synthesizing different thoughts from others and just, you know, kind of lean in to that strength when you're, you know, in the discussion if you can. And I also would recommend getting together with others whether. I mean, I think there are ways to do this on the Internet with, you know, different admissions consultants and things. But definitely practicing would be smart. Getting together with other Wharton folks who've got invites or, you know, or just even with friends or family if they're willing to humor you. But it is important to sort of do that kind of prep.
• 14:33
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, absolutely. And I would put into that, be a really good listener.
• 14:37
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 14:39
  Speaker B: And the idea shouldn't be. Your idea has to win.
• 14:44
  Speaker A: Right.
• 14:46
  Speaker B: Five or six of you are presenting really well developed ideas. So you've got to step back from the sort of ownership idea of your own idea and really understand the qualities of each of the five or six ideas. And as Graham said, maybe the final idea is either one of the five or six or a synthesis of several of the five or six. So taking good aspects of some of the other ideas and marrying them to the potentially the winning ideas. So, yeah, so, you know, lots of folks get really concerned or stressed that their idea needs to be selected. That is not the case by far, I think the facilitator role, the listener role, the note taker role, you know, the organizer, etc. The person that really helps draw other folks into the conversation. When you go sort of brainstorming and debating these different ideas, those roles are super, super important.
• 15:47
  Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, I could not agree more. I mean, I think you know, I have, I got a list of tips here that are from, you know, we've, we've done, we've done kind of podcasts about this each year since Wharton's done this, I think pretty much. And, you know, I have this little list of tips here in terms of like performing well. And so it starts with some basic things like, you know, be on time, turn your camera on, smile like, you know, set a collegial tone with your peers and as I said, nail that one minute intro. But then once the discussion happens, as you point out, show active listening, talk, you know, refer to other people by name, build on their ideas, keep an eye on the prompt checklist. Like, does the team, is the team covering all the points? Like, right in that prompt I read it said, you know, here's how you're going to measure success in this leadership intensive. Like, keep an eye on those things. Maybe help manage time. Like, you know, you can, you can just keep an eye on the clock or have someone on the, in the group be sort of the clock person, you know, and make sure you're balancing, speaking and facilitating and as you said, kind of encouraging those quieter participants if possible. There was a good example is like, if someone's dominating the discussion, you know, just try to redirect. So, you know, just, you could say, oh, those are great points. Why don't we hear from so and so and see what they think, you know, and then I would just say avoid. This is something we tell people with their resumes and interviews in general, like, avoid jargon. Don't get bogged down in like tiny details. This is all about teamwork dynamics. And so that's, you know, yeah, just something to keep in mind. And then finally, authenticity matters. I know schools kind of have been beating candidates over the head with that for, for, for a couple years now, but, you know, speak naturally. Don't. This isn't like a performance, you know, and that goes back to what I was saying about the great job taking the cap off our pens, everybody, you know, like, don't, don't overdo it in any event. So, yeah. And then at the end, obviously help the group to consolidate key takeaways and ensure that your team has addressed each element of the prompt. So, yeah, those are the key sort of tips while you're in it.
• 17:49
  Speaker B: I don't know, Timeline is really important. Right. So make sure that you keep track of time so that, that so that you do ultimately end up with an outcome.
• 17:59
  Speaker A: Yeah. And, you know, and to your point earlier, you know, you Were saying how don't worry if your topic is the one that's chosen. I think, yeah, there's some candidates who go into this saying, oh, Wharton admits about a third, you know, there might only be five of us. So it's possible that just like one of us is going to get in and it'll be the person whose ideas chosen. And that's not true. This is really not so much about the idea as it is the journey that takes you there and how you interact along that journey. So yeah, I just, yeah, they're really, the team is watching the admissions team which by the way sometimes it's one facilitator but often there are two and they're usually second year students. Right. And they're watching you and your teammates and how you kind of approach an open ended problem. So I just, yeah, it's really important to focus, don't get bogged down in the idea or the topic. You got to work together together to shape a clear plan. Right. So in any event, yeah, I, I feel like, I don't know. I, I think I once it was it, Yeah, I think it was Jake Kohler over at Wharton said, you know, sometimes an entire team gets in, you know, because they've just, they've all like worked incredibly well together and, and you know, everyone's really stood out. So it's not like it's oh, we're taking two from each, you know, one or two students from each, you know, tbd. That's not how it works at all. And remember the interview is not the only thing either. Right. You have your whole file. So in any event, I think so. Alex, I wanted to. You, you were talking to me before this about how, before we talk about the one on one interview at the end, I wanted to hear you, you were saying, do you have, you know that you were going to come with some ideas for potential leadership intensives. So I was curious like. And you said you're going to use ChatGPT.
• 19:33
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 19:34
  Speaker A: So did you come up with anything interesting?
• 19:36
  Speaker B: I mean, yeah, I use chat but, but again other folks can do this so I don't want to necessarily lead. But the one idea that I thought was really interesting is partnering with a cybersecurity firm to develop a simulation exercise which obviously that sort of crisis management, etc. Etc. And it went through lots of the parameters and so on and so forth that you would need to develop. I like it to align it with the prompt and obviously cybersecurity is a huge topic. So it's very Topical as well as, I think, being a really, really interesting concept. Yeah, yeah.
• 20:23
  Speaker A: So, you know, now just for our listeners to know, I mean, Blair Mannix and Jake Kohler at Wharton, who are, you know, run the admissions show there. They listen to the show. So don't use the ideas that we suggest here because they're not going to. They may not fly. But what I did, Alex, so just to give you an idea of how one could. Could use ChatGPT is I thought, oh, it would be really cool if the leadership intensive or idea that, you know, that I bring into this team somehow was related to my background and my experiences. And so. So I actually asked it. I said, I want you to come up with a couple ideas for a potential leadership intensive. I gave it the prompt and then I said, I have a background in music and in art. And I wondered, is there anything that could sort of tease that out and you would not believe? So I came up with two ideas, and they're really cool. One is you bring in some professional jazz or improv musicians who specialize in corporate workshops, and the participants have to rotate roles from being like a soloist, accompanist, observer, and not playing music. But it's like a way to kind of experience these different leadership dynamics. So it had all these ideas. I won't get into it, but it was really interesting. And then the other one was the team had to come together and select a kind of set of images or objects and curate a kind of small exhibit of art. Right. But again, with this idea of working together to tell a story, collaborate, each member bringing a different point of view. So I don't know, these are just kind of totally random ideas. But I, you know, I was kind of trying to focus it around things that would tease out little elements of my background that maybe I would want the admissions observer to remember. So that was my idea.
• 22:02
  Speaker B: I think that's very clever, Graham.
• 22:04
  Speaker A: Maybe I'd get into Wharton anyway, so.
• 22:08
  Speaker B: But I like the second second idea. I just think that's a little bit more accessible.
• 22:12
  Speaker A: Yeah, I think you're right. So the last thing we should talk about with respect to TBD is the one on one interview. And I will tell you, in the first year, or maybe even two, Wharton did not do this. They just did the tbd and then you went home. And they got a lot of complaints from people saying that was interesting. But I don't feel like the committee, you know, I've applied. I poured my heart and soul into an application. I didn't really get to sit down with anyone and talk about my background or, you know, any kind of one on one interaction. So they then added this one on one interview. So the way that it works is the team based discussion finishes, the two facilitators go into a breakout and you're invited in one by one, you know, to have a 10 minute discussion. And as you said, that's often about what did you think of the team based discussion, how did it go, et cetera. And then quickly into some of those classic, you know, MBA interview questions. But it's only 10 minutes. But do you have any thoughts or advice on this, Alex?
• 23:07
  Speaker B: No, I think this should be pretty straightforward. Obviously the why Wharton, why MBA and all that stuff comes from the application. You just get a chance to articulate it in the interview setting, much like you would in a regular interview. So any advice answering those questions are very similar to advice that we provide for those standard questions in, in the main interview. And I think, you know, not always are you asked about your experience with the tbd, but if you are, yeah, just don't throw anyone under the bus. But it does give you a chance to provide feedback on, on what, how you experience that tbd. Hopefully it's a positive experience and you can express that, don't express frustration and so forth. So, so, so yeah, I do think the one on one should be reasonably straightforward and especially for folks that are applying, you know, to other schools, you know, because you've, you've got that sort of one on one interview experience or you're prepping for it. It's the TBD itself that's just very unusual.
• 24:13
  Speaker A: Yeah. And I think the questions that people get, if they do get questions about the TBD are sort of like, how do you think the team did, how did you contribute and what might you change if you could do it again? And as you say, just stay reflective, positive, self aware, you know, acknowledge other strengths, don't critique teammates.
• 24:31
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 24:31
  Speaker A: Look, the, the admissions observer knows if someone was a real jerk or dominating, like, you don't need to necessarily underline that. So. Or there are subtle ways to do so that are not negative. Right. So yeah, in any event, but that is, so that is a part of the process. It lasts about 10 minutes, as we said. And yeah. So anything else about Wharton's tbd and I hope this is helpful. I know a lot of people are going to be interviewing this week and next, so hopefully this really hits the spot in terms of your, your needs, if you're prepping for that. But anything else on this Alex, I don't think so.
• 25:01
  Speaker B: Again, just come really well prepared and then follow our guidance in terms of how to sort of behave or whatever the right term is. Join the TBD itself so that you can optimize the experience for you and your fellow participants. Right. So you're all in this together, even though that's a bit of a weird environment because you are effectively competing for slots. But imagine in that tbd, you're all in this together to come up with the one best idea.
• 25:30
  Speaker A: Yeah, and you make a great point. Like, I think you need to go into this process thinking, my job is for us all to get into Wharton by having a great team. Team. Teamwork and discussion. Right. So don't think of it as, oh, four of these people are out and I want to be the one that's in. You know, that. That would not be a good way. Anyway, great advice. We do have an admissions tip on the website. We have the interview archive, which also has a lot of people writing about their experience. And we've done other podcasts in the past that are even a bit longer where we've just talked about tbd. And, you know, you can go back into the archives. They're all there. Obviously, we've talked about what the prompts are each year and they vary, but the gist of it's the same. And I think we tackled the key issues this week to get people ready. So obviously, if you want to write to Alex and I with a TBD question or anything else, you can always reach us@infoearadmit.com use the subject line wiretaps. Otherwise, Alex, should we talk about our candidates for this week?
• 26:28
  Speaker B: Yeah, and I'll just add, I mean, the value in looking at the. Listening to the other podcasts. As folks will have noted during this discussion, we barely touched on the specific prompt in terms of how to, you know, manage the experience. But we talked in much more general terms. You know, use AI to do the brainstorming, behave appropriately through the experience, prepare well, do the one, you know, your one minute delivery, etc. Etc. That though that guidance will resonate no matter which of our podcasts that you do look at, it'll reaffirm. Maybe there's some additional nuance we talked about in one versus another, but the actual prompts themselves, we don't spend a lot of time because we don't think that that's the value in terms of the guidance that we can provide.
• 27:28
  Speaker A: Right. And the only thing I would say, and this is why I made a point with the examples I shared is, you know, if you're going to use ChatGPT, make sure that you put your own sort of stamp on it, you know, so that's why I was like, oh, I have background in this. Or I could have said in higher ed or ed tech too, but I just wanted to have it think about some ideas that would then allow me to kind of further refine and just bring something different to the table. So keep that in mind. But otherwise, Alex, I think we should talk about this week's candidates. So, yeah, you've picked. You picked them out. So let's get into this is wiretaps candidate number one. All right, so our first candidate this week is applying just to three schools, or at least that's all they have on the list at the moment. And those schools are Cambridge, Harvard and Oxford. They want to start school in the fall of 26. They have been working as a real estate founder and CEO. This person's a real entrepreneur, as you'll hear shortly. They want to stay in the entrepreneurial domain after business school. They have a 337 on the GRE, which is a really impressive score. 3.3 undergraduate GPA. They have 11 years of work experience. So this is definitely an older candidate. In their 30s, I believe. They said they might be 34 or something. They're working in Spain, but they are a British national and they're really looking to land ideally on the east coast in the us, Although fallback might be London. And they did note that they are an entrepreneur and CEO with 250 million-plus in transactions and a record of building ventures, merging strategy, technology and purpose. The big thing that they are is they founded a luxury real estate agency across Marbella, Mallorca and Ibiza, and they're really passionate about entrepreneurship that drives measurable impact from youth employability to education. In Costa Rica, I mean, they've done a bunch of different things. And they mentioned that they were not super happy in undergrad. They were kind of restless. They wanted to work, they wanted to get out there into the world. And so their grades, that 3.3 reflects that. They say, you know, obviously, obviously they went on to found their own business, manage teams, and they've had a really successful career. And so now they're thinking about the value of an mba, you know, in terms of, like, helping them get that formalized structure and knowledge and. And also a global network as they're trying to expand and grow. So that's the main background. They have some experience, volunteer work, you know, teaching English and math and a rehab center. They, you know, they definitely are passionate about that. And Alex, they talked about, you know, really wanting to learn from their classmates. They want to be challenged. So a lot of the kind of right reasons I would say for getting an mba, but I want to hear your take because you know, this is a much older candidate and right now they have this very narrow list of schools and they say they want to land in the U.S. but only one of the three schools is in the U.S. and it's Harvard. So. Yeah. What's your take on this?
• 30:31
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean I think they need to consider their school selection just to that point. If they want to be on the east coast of the US then favoring schools that are in, on the east coast in the US does make sense not to dismiss the UK based programs. And I maybe talk about that a little bit more in a minute. But yeah, this is an older candidate and one good thing for this older candidate is that super GRE score. So showing that the here and now their academic aptitude is super, super strong, they have what would appear to be really good entrepreneurial experience to bring to the table. I think when they're targeting top schools, the stereotypical older candidate would, would, would really need to justify the why now in terms of, you know, making that very clear to the adcom, but also their fit for the, the programs because typically older candidates, you know, maybe they won't get so involved in the extracurricular activities, maybe they've got other things to do, etc. Etc. So, so the fit becomes really, really important and they recognize that that's I really like this candidate because they've obviously got a high degree of self awareness in as much as they articulated their concerns when they posted to apply wire. And my feedback was just reinforcing those same concerns and like how did they convince ADCOM of this sort of wine outfit and so on and so forth. So I just thought that was really interesting. I think that they need to be looking a little bit more broadly at M7 and so forth, you know, not, not just Harvard obviously on, on the east coast. So, so, so there are other schools. But I'm going to ask you, Graham, as an older candidate with terrific entrepreneurial experience and obviously with a, with a strong GRE score. So yeah, their undergrad might not have been ideal, but I think they can overcome that with the GRE score. What about these Sloan programs or programs that are more designed for more seasoned candidates?
• 32:54
  Speaker A: All right, so you're talking about like the one year kind of masters in management that I believe. MIT, LBs and Stanford all offer different flavors of. I think Stanford says a new name now, maybe MSX or I can't remember what msx, but yeah, yeah, I mean that's a certain. Yeah, that could be a really good fit and you know, for someone in this kind of age bracket and faster.
• 33:16
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. My point is also, I mean, networking, I think is a big piece of what they want to get out of the MBA experience, get into that ecosystem. And I think the Sloan program provides access.
• 33:28
  Speaker A: Yeah, that's a really good idea for this candidate. I mean, I, you know, I agree with you that. So on the one hand, what happens with older candidates is the admissions committee looks at the file and says, oh, can we teach this old dog new tricks? You know, and so they get worried about low test scores. Well, this person ticks that box because they have a great test score.
• 33:44
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 33:45
  Speaker A: But there's still that concern of like, what about hiring, you know, and, and this person says they want to continue to do their own entrepreneurial thing, which probably is an advantage. Right. Because if, if they were coming into the process saying I want to work as a consultant at McKinsey, you know, you're going to say, is McKinsey really going to hire, you know, a 35 year old or whatever it's going to be into these sort of entry level MBA posts. And I, I think that's a little more challenging.
• 34:08
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 34:09
  Speaker A: So, yeah, I would say either they need to pivot to that type of master's you're suggesting, or if they're going to look at MBA programs, I would try to look at MBA programs in the US since that's where they want to be.
• 34:19
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 34:20
  Speaker A: As you suggested. But also maybe programs that have a bit more of a reputation of taking older candidates. So I think, for example, you'll see that on average over the years, folks like mit, Sloan and Wharton, Chicago Booth, some of these other schools have taken more of these older candidates than the likes of hbs. I'm not saying they shouldn't apply to hbs, but we just don't see as many older candidates going to HBS historically. So for one reason or another now I think with Cambridge and Oxford, or if they throw in an LBs into that mix or some of the other great, you know, UK schools, they should be competitive and it's probably less of an issue. There are, you know, on average older candidates in MBA programs in Europe, so it's a lot. But, but again, that would increase the odds of them staying in the uk. Afterwards.
• 35:04
  Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.
• 35:06
  Speaker A: So. But it's a really, I mean they. That you're right. It's so refreshing to read a post from someone who really seems to know why they want this degree. It's not about the money. It's not about getting that leg up and getting that first big job. And they've done impressive stuff.
• 35:21
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 35:22
  Speaker A: So they kind of want the degree. You could argue for all the right reasons in terms of the education and meeting other people, being challenged by peers. So I think, you know, that's. Yeah. So that would be my advice to this person is look at these other programs, maybe expand the scope on the regular full time MBAs that they're considering too. But yeah, I like the profile. It's pretty interesting.
• 35:42
  Speaker B: Yeah, really interesting.
• 35:43
  Speaker A: All right, so I want to thank them for sharing. Let's move on though and talk about wiretaps candidate number two and I will.
• 35:50
  Speaker B: Say our final candidate because it is a different type of show today.
• 35:56
  Speaker A: Yeah. Because we did the Wharton tbd. So this is our second and final. So this is. Yeah. Wiretaps candidate number two. This candidate from Apply Wire that you picked, Alex has six schools on the target list. Those schools are Carnegie Mellon, Columbia, Cornell, Duke, NYU and UT Austin. They are looking to start in the fall of 26. They have been working and managing management consulting prior to business school. They actually are, they claim it's a global management consulting firm with 10,000 people worldwide. They will have three years of experience by the time they start. They are based in Atlanta, GRE score was a 333 and their GPA is a 3.8. And that's as an engineer out of Georgia Tech, one of the very best engineering programs in the US they are saying for post post MBA that they're interested in banking or maybe vc eventually private equity. And so they list a number of banks. Bank of America, Barclays, Citibank, Deutsche Bank, Goldman, etc. The list goes on. It's sort of all the usual suspects. And they indicate that they have chosen to develop their expertise in terms of their career to date in end to end supply chain optimization with very extensive engagements in the space, mainly working, working for food and beverage clients. They claim they've generated more than 10 million in cost savings through hands on implementation and operations at client companies. They think They've identified probably 100 million savings opportunities through assessment work. So less hands on but just telling companies, hey, maybe cut here or there, they've had a number of interesting experiences at work. I mean in a relatively short career to date. Right. So they, you know, only will have three years by matriculation. And they say though that their goal is to transition from consulting to investment banking. So they've come to the realization that operations and finance are the two pillars of a company's success, that they've understood.
• 37:50
  Speaker B: Operations as you know. I disagree with that statement.
• 37:53
  Speaker A: Yes, we'll get into that. But anyway, so they're basically saying they've had this exposure on the one side, operations consulting in the food and beverage sector, and now they want to learn finance and go do banking and make that pivot with an mba. Extracurriculars they say are somewhat limited. They're a member of a local non profit organization, but they only engage in volunteer events every now and then. Nothing long term or stable. So. Yeah. What do you make of this candidate, Alex?
• 38:22
  Speaker B: Yeah, I think despite the lack of extracurriculars, I would apply to Wharton for this candidate. I think they're undershooting a little bit. They're obviously applied to some strong finance programs, the likes of Columbia and Johnson and so on and so forth. But I'd throw my hat in at Wharton. They're super strong academically, 3.8 engineering, Georgia Tech, 333 GRE. It looks like their experience to date has been strong. So as long as that's backed up by strong recommendations, they're slightly weaker area is the FCS and their lack of meaningful understanding of business more generally. Because, because marketing, I would say is the third of the three pillars, but not the third, the first of the three pillars. Right. You've got supply chain, you've got finance, super important. But if you don't know the customer, your business is not going to work. I just throw that out as an important third pillar. But I really do like this candidate overall, even though they're slightly weaker on the extracurriculars. So I think with their school selection they're going to get some positive responses hopefully as long as they do a decent job with the, with the application strategy in round two. But yeah, I would take a punt on Wharton. Graham.
• 39:42
  Speaker A: Yeah, so I, I'm going to step back and suggest that I don't like this person's goals. So. So you, you don't like their, the way that they viewed the, you know, a company just being sort of all operations and finance. But I, I actually, I'm confused by the goals more generally. Like I, as I told you before we came on air, I was sort of like, wow, this is kind of exciting reading about supply chain and this expertise that they build in food And Bev. And so I expected them to say, my goal is to go and work for a major Food and Bev in a leadership development program or, you know, as a product manager or something. Yeah. Something that would tie their experiences to date in that domain. Or worst case. And maybe not worst case, but in another, if they really are dead set on finance, they could say, this investment bank is like a complete rock star firm when it comes to supply chain and particularly Food and Bev. And I want to go work there to do deals in that space so that I can understand the finance side and the long term. I'm going to be CEO of a Food and Bev company or something like that. Right. So something that brings together these themes, and I'm not seeing it. You know, I'm seeing, oh, I did this, and now I want to do that to sort of get the rest of the. You know, and I'm going to use the MBA to get there. And the reason I think this is important is because they don't have great extracurriculars, so they're going to need to ride their extremely strong academic numbers and counting stats, along with a very interesting and, you know, kind of solid career that ties nicely with a set of goals. So I. I'm just. Yeah, I feel. And they will need to work on the extracurriculars. Like, if they have some hobbies or things that can round out their profile, that would be really helpful. But I just. I'm worried about the goals. I'm just kind of like, wow, this. It's leaving me a little flat, given the. For it to be much more.
• 41:28
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I guess my point with their goals is more they're thinking of their experiences as building blocks to then get to where they ultimately want to be. So they've done the supply chain stuff, they're doing the finance, or they want to do the finance stuff. And this should then, when combined, allow them to do whatever Y is. But I do completely get your point. I'm also suggesting we're running quite long on this podcast, so we should wrap it up.
• 41:59
  Speaker A: But.
• 41:59
  Speaker B: But, yeah, I completely get your point, but I still say have a punta war.
• 42:03
  Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, yeah, that's fine by me. I mean, with these numbers, like, why not? And. And they could. I mean, Wharton's an amazing operations school too, so there's, you know. Yeah, so all good there. Anyway, I don't mean to be down on this cat. I just want to kind of give them my take as, you know, looking at it from the admissions standpoint, so in any event, they're going to get things together in round two and apply to some of these schools. And I agree, Wharton could be one of them. Alex, thanks so much for. I know it was like double duty this week where we had to talk about the Wharton team based discussion and do some candidate reviews. Appreciate you picking these out. Next week will be a little bit more of a regular show and I look forward to it and I'll see you then, I guess.
• 42:37
  Speaker B: Very good. Stay safe everyone. Take care.
• 42:54
  Speaker A: RA.