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How White-collar Crime Works · Stuff You Should Know

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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.
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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to you Stuff you Should
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Speaker 1: Know from House Stuff Works dot Com. Hey, and welcome
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Speaker 1: to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant,
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Speaker 1: uh stiffing on his laqui uh mineral water and um
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Speaker 1: of microphones in an ice cold can of refreshing Laquais
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Speaker 1: mineral water together, you have something called Stuff you Should Know.
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Speaker 1: It's a podcast. It's a podcast. I'm looking to see
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Speaker 1: who makes this actually. Oh no, I thought I was
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Speaker 1: gonna say, like Coca Cola and small let No, it's
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Speaker 1: a Sundance beverage company. Oh yeah, they're huge for Minnesota.
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Speaker 1: I think that's perfect. That is a perfect sponsor for stuff.
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Speaker 1: You know, a little guy that's producing a great product. Agreed.
1:03
Speaker 1: Uh So, Chuck, I've got an intro today. Stop criticizing me. Um. So.
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Speaker 1: Very recently, a trio of Brits economists, British economists, they're
1:21
Speaker 1: like walking saltines. Very exciting. Um. But anyway, these guys
1:25
Speaker 1: did something pretty cool. They studied bank robberies, and their
1:29
Speaker 1: study was published in a journal called Significance. It's actually
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Speaker 1: kind of a cool journal. It takes statistics and applies
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Speaker 1: it to real world stuff, so it's an interesting statistics journal.
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Speaker 1: If there is such a thing, um, And if there is,
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Speaker 1: this is it. And what these guys found was that
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Speaker 1: bank robbery is actually a really terrible way to make
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Speaker 1: a living. Yes, I would agree with that morally, economically
1:52
Speaker 1: it's a terrible way to make a living too, the right. Yes,
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Speaker 1: they looked at they looked at a lot of variables,
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Speaker 1: like the number of people involved, and they found that
2:01
Speaker 1: the bigger the gang, the more um, the bigger the
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Speaker 1: hall I guess. But it also meant that's one extra
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Speaker 1: mouth to divide up amongst unless you're like one of
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Speaker 1: those bankrupers that just kills everybody afterward. Yeah, you don't
2:14
Speaker 1: want to get in bed with one of those guys
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Speaker 1: like Ben Affleck, or like in Heat, when there are
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Speaker 1: a lot of killing afterward. In Heat and in the
2:20
Speaker 1: town ben Affleck's a recent heist movie, a lot of
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Speaker 1: killing going on. I was gonna let that one walk by,
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Speaker 1: but you brought it up twice. I enjoyed it. Um.
2:28
Speaker 1: Oh really uh and okay, So anyway, Um, there's a
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Speaker 1: lot of variables involved. But what they found is, no
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Speaker 1: matter what, in the u K, you can make off
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Speaker 1: with about thirty one graham. That's not bad, per yes,
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Speaker 1: and on average that's what that's what the take was.
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Speaker 1: So in the UK it's not so bad. Um. But
2:47
Speaker 1: at the same time, thirty one grand, what are you
2:49
Speaker 1: gonna do with that? Yeah? I mean, if you want
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Speaker 1: to live the high life, you gotta rob like four
2:53
Speaker 1: or five banks a year easy, right or right? Okay
2:56
Speaker 1: or um. If you're in the US, you have to
2:59
Speaker 1: rob it more than that. So the UK suffers about
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Speaker 1: a hundred and six bank robbers a year. In the
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Speaker 1: US there's twelve thousand, and of those twelve thousand, the
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Speaker 1: average take is like four grand. They only have how
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Speaker 1: many a year. That's they have really stiff, stiff gun laws,
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Speaker 1: and I think that probably determs bank robbery because you
3:21
Speaker 1: kind of have a gun or a note in your
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Speaker 1: pocket and that says something. Well, these guys figured out
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Speaker 1: that the presence of a firearm increased your take um.
3:30
Speaker 1: But anyway, so forty bucks that's not much at all now,
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Speaker 1: and about a third of bank robberies I guess in
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Speaker 1: both countries yield nothing zero zero. So it's a lot
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Speaker 1: of hard work, a lot of risk, for very little gain.
3:45
Speaker 1: The real money is in white collar crime. Oh yes,
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Speaker 1: you want to make some cash quick, maybe one good heist.
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Speaker 1: It's gonna set you up for the rest of your
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Speaker 1: life and even if you're caught. Even if you're caught,
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Speaker 1: the chances are you will have a mild, if any
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Speaker 1: penalty leviaging against you. White collars the way to go. Yeah,
4:06
Speaker 1: we're talking guys who um tell people that they are
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Speaker 1: financial investors and get friends and family and uh parents
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Speaker 1: of the little league that they coach to give them
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Speaker 1: nine hundred grand. Um. There's other guys who just have
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Speaker 1: little penny stock companies that pump up their um stock
4:27
Speaker 1: prospects called stock touting, and um dump all of their shares. UM.
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Speaker 1: That's investor fraud. They make hundreds of thousands, if not
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Speaker 1: millions of dollars. It's where the real money is, and
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Speaker 1: historically speaking, it has really low risk even if you're called.
4:44
Speaker 1: All right, so we're endorsing white collar crime. We're not
4:47
Speaker 1: endorsing it. I was being facetious. I thought you met
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Speaker 1: up with white collar crime in no. No. As a
4:55
Speaker 1: matter of fact, it's going down. The times are definitely changing.
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Speaker 1: There's a big struggle going on right now is to
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Speaker 1: figuring out the just the right amount of punishment with
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Speaker 1: white collar crime, because there's a lot of factors involved.
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Speaker 1: It's a lot different from blue collar crime e g.
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Speaker 1: Stealing a car, robbing a bank. There's a lot of
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Speaker 1: differences that differentiated. Let's separate the two, um And one
5:18
Speaker 1: of those now is the the sentencing forum is probably stiffer,
5:23
Speaker 1: which is a total reversal from how it used to
5:25
Speaker 1: be before. And they've also closed a lot of the
5:28
Speaker 1: club beds down that got so much press. Yes, well
5:31
Speaker 1: they've they've changed them. They're still there, they just are changed. Well,
5:35
Speaker 1: a lot of more shut down like period. Yeah, just
5:38
Speaker 1: to ship them to real federal penitentiary penitentiaries. Penitentiaries. Uh.
5:46
Speaker 1: That reminded me of a word that will definitely be
5:48
Speaker 1: hearing at some point in this podcast. It's oh yeah,
5:53
Speaker 1: because that's definitely white collar. Part of the problem with
5:56
Speaker 1: white collar crime, Josh, as you know from reading this
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Speaker 1: is that uh um, it's hard to come up with
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Speaker 1: an exact definition of what constitutes it. So that's why
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Speaker 1: they have a hard time getting great statistics on punishment
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Speaker 1: and finds levied and how many of they're catching. But
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Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with non violent crime that typically involves
6:18
Speaker 1: and you have to sit things like typically because it's
6:20
Speaker 1: kind of all over the map. Typically involves um deceit
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Speaker 1: and fraud given by a perpetrator because of their occupation. Yeah,
6:29
Speaker 1: And for that reason, a lot of times it's called
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Speaker 1: occupational um crime. Yeah. Uh. And if you look at
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Speaker 1: it through that view, which is a very broad view
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Speaker 1: of white collar crime, it's not just the exacts and
6:40
Speaker 1: the three thousand dollar suits who are perpetrating this. It's
6:44
Speaker 1: the guy who's stealing pencils from work, Yeah, or violent
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Speaker 1: especially somebody asked him if you did it, and he
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Speaker 1: says no, And it's because you are You're You're granted
6:54
Speaker 1: this opportunity through your occupation. I would call that petty theft.
6:58
Speaker 1: It's but I'm saying, like a very very broad definition
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Speaker 1: of white collar crime that that definitely counts. But for
7:04
Speaker 1: the most part, when you think of white collar you
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Speaker 1: think about the CEO as you think about investor fraud, embezzlement,
7:11
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff exactly. Uh, feds have been after
7:13
Speaker 1: in the United States, uh, in earnest since nineteen seventy four,
7:17
Speaker 1: as far as a a dedicated division the FBI. Yeah,
7:21
Speaker 1: and that's because the NIX and I read and then uh,
7:24
Speaker 1: despite that, about three hundred billion dollars a year. And
7:27
Speaker 1: that's a pretty rough estimates, the two estimate. So let's
7:33
Speaker 1: talk about a few ways you can commit white color crime. Yeah,
7:36
Speaker 1: because the definition you gave us like beautiful, it's pretty good. Um,
7:40
Speaker 1: and there are some that just like I said, investment
7:42
Speaker 1: fraud or embezzlement or just prototypical white collar crime. Insider
7:47
Speaker 1: trading is one that's a big one which falls under
7:49
Speaker 1: securities fraud, right Uh yeah, I mean it's a type
7:53
Speaker 1: of securities fraud. So basically insider trading. We've I swear
7:57
Speaker 1: we've done something on this. I don't think so it
8:01
Speaker 1: must have been in our Fenian Freddie presentation then and
8:03
Speaker 1: then we studied a lot of this stuff. Yeah, and
8:06
Speaker 1: I thought we'd done a podcast and I guess not.
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Speaker 1: But insider trading is essentially like, um, let's say that
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Speaker 1: you and I find out that Discovery had an awesome quarter,
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Speaker 1: and so we go and buy a bunch of Discovery
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Speaker 1: stock for nothing, and then it just shoots through the
8:21
Speaker 1: roof after the stock price comes out. That's inside of trading. Sure,
8:25
Speaker 1: that's using private knowledge about a publicly traded company for
8:29
Speaker 1: your own game. That's a no no we to other people.
8:33
Speaker 1: That would count as well. And then Stewart, yeah, that
8:37
Speaker 1: they took part and then they would be UH insider
8:40
Speaker 1: traders as well, exactly. And it works the opposite way
8:43
Speaker 1: as well, Like if you find out that there's a
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Speaker 1: lot of terrible information, terrible information is going to make
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Speaker 1: your stock drop that you sell before that information becomes public,
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Speaker 1: you're in trouble, big trouble. Securities fraud, which UM insider
8:56
Speaker 1: trading is kind of like that UM, but it is
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Speaker 1: also manipulated and cooking the book keeper that term of
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Speaker 1: your own company too. Maybe undervalue UM a stock before
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Speaker 1: it goes public or I mean, there's all different variations,
9:10
Speaker 1: but it basically involves manipulating numbers in a dishonest way, right,
9:14
Speaker 1: that pumping up scheme where it's stocked outing. There's that's
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Speaker 1: all securities fraud. UM and then there's anti trust violations
9:23
Speaker 1: for another good one that this has been kind of
9:25
Speaker 1: big lately. So, um, Google is supposedly hogging the YouTube metadata,
9:31
Speaker 1: which is preventing Microsoft from making a decent app for it.
9:34
Speaker 1: Yeah and um and Google's like, well, it's proprietary or whatever.
9:38
Speaker 1: And I was like, no, you gotta kind of have
9:40
Speaker 1: to share that. That's they're alleging an antitrust violation. Companies
9:44
Speaker 1: kind of police one another with that. And then also
9:47
Speaker 1: price fixing is a big one, which is like the
9:49
Speaker 1: opposite of companies policing one another. It's collusion between companies
9:52
Speaker 1: and like Apple and book publishers, um fixing the prices
9:56
Speaker 1: of e books allegedly has been going on. Yeah, yeah, man,
10:01
Speaker 1: it's going on all over the place. That it's it's
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Speaker 1: a dirty, dirty, dirty world bribery one of the oldest
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Speaker 1: tricks in the book. Um. Obviously that's involves some sort
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Speaker 1: of a payoff or a kickback in exchange for uh
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Speaker 1: whatever information. Um, I get the bid, my company gets
10:20
Speaker 1: your bid with this government job, and I get a
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Speaker 1: little kickback or I give you a little kickback rather um,
10:27
Speaker 1: any kind of maybe favorable decision that can influence your company. Yeah,
10:31
Speaker 1: a little little grease in the palm going on. Here's
10:34
Speaker 1: three high quality frozen steaks. Please consider it, and you
10:39
Speaker 1: say consider granted. And within each of these steaks is
10:44
Speaker 1: a one million dollar bill. It's not even an it
10:47
Speaker 1: doesn't even exist. What frozen steaks with money in a
10:51
Speaker 1: million dollar bill? Okay, we know about frozen deutsch marks.
10:54
Speaker 1: Somebody sent us a dollar. By the way, I want
10:56
Speaker 1: the dollar. We'll we'll give you fifty cents, right, I
10:59
Speaker 1: guess it's thirty three in the third we gotta give
11:00
Speaker 1: Jerry or cut. Don't go there, we'll talk about it later.
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Speaker 1: Embezzlement Office Space. Everyone's seen the movie Office Space, that
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Speaker 1: little program they had to like shave a sin or
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Speaker 1: something off of a transaction. That's embezzlement. They were given
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Speaker 1: the opportunity through trust, with books, with accounting, they basically
11:23
Speaker 1: add access to the money and skim them off the top.
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Speaker 1: Which we have done a podcast on schemes um So
11:36
Speaker 1: basically all of the those are all the stars. There's
11:40
Speaker 1: also other ones like m espionage, industrial espionage, corporate SPI,
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Speaker 1: white collar. Remember the lady who tried to sell Pepsi's
11:50
Speaker 1: secret to coke? Yeah, that was pretty hackney. No Coke's
11:53
Speaker 1: secret to PEPSI because she was like, wait right here
11:56
Speaker 1: she was, and they went and called the cops. She
11:58
Speaker 1: didn't do a real good job, but she was surprised. UM.
12:01
Speaker 1: Environmental law violations like dumping toxic waste. Yeah, covering that
12:06
Speaker 1: up like Aaron Brockovich style. UM. One of the things
12:10
Speaker 1: they point out in here, which is when it comes
12:12
Speaker 1: to things like your little office space scheme that you
12:15
Speaker 1: just touted. UM. A lot of times, it's difficult to
12:20
Speaker 1: imagine victims. Like in office space, they think no one's
12:24
Speaker 1: gonna miss a penny. Is a huge company, So you
12:28
Speaker 1: commit these crimes without realizing that someone has hurt somewhere
12:32
Speaker 1: down the line. If you dump your stock, your company
12:35
Speaker 1: stock that you know is about the tank. And I'm
12:37
Speaker 1: not saying it's understandable, but if you've like worked your
12:41
Speaker 1: whole career investing in this company with your four own
12:44
Speaker 1: k you know it's about to tank, You're like, man,
12:47
Speaker 1: I need to sell this or else I'm done for.
12:50
Speaker 1: My family's done for. You don't think about the people
12:52
Speaker 1: buying the stock, they're the victims. No, It's absolutely true,
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Speaker 1: And I mean, like you are being pawned. You're pawning
13:00
Speaker 1: your problem off on somebody else. But I think you
13:03
Speaker 1: paint a really really excellent scenario, Like you can in
13:08
Speaker 1: some cases feel bad for the white collar criminal um,
13:12
Speaker 1: especially if it's just some average Joe who's worried about
13:15
Speaker 1: is for a one case um or in the case
13:18
Speaker 1: of Enron, you don't feel bad for the upper dudes.
13:21
Speaker 1: You feel bad for everyone in that company that got defrauded, right,
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Speaker 1: But they were strictly victims. They didn't they didn't turn
13:27
Speaker 1: around and like try to dump the stocks. But that
13:29
Speaker 1: that's a very visible case of like screwing over your
13:33
Speaker 1: own employees. But you make a good point, like even
13:35
Speaker 1: if the even if the criminal is sympathetic, there still
13:38
Speaker 1: is a victim, even if it's just some amorphous trader
13:42
Speaker 1: they'll never meet, even if the victim is some like
13:44
Speaker 1: hedge fund manager. It's really tough. There's like a really
13:48
Speaker 1: weird spectrum here. There's like I don't know if it's
13:51
Speaker 1: a Bell curve or like the UV spectrum, who knows.
13:56
Speaker 1: But there's sympathies like placed in different spot sympathies and
14:01
Speaker 1: anti antipathies placed along this this depending on who did
14:05
Speaker 1: what and what they gained from it and what their
14:08
Speaker 1: motives were agreed, because you gotta also have credit card
14:11
Speaker 1: fraud and computer and mail fraud and counterfeiting and things
14:17
Speaker 1: like that, like you know the Nigerian email scams. That's
14:20
Speaker 1: white collar. But and they're in the same boat as
14:22
Speaker 1: like ken Ley and Jeff Skillings exactly same scummy crooks.
14:28
Speaker 1: Or let's say you commit a little credit card fraud
14:30
Speaker 1: and you or bankruptcy fraud and you're dislike, does it
14:33
Speaker 1: be easy way to get out of my debts? Or
14:35
Speaker 1: I just say someone stole my credit card. It's very
14:38
Speaker 1: easy there to not envision a a victim because it's
14:42
Speaker 1: it's Chase Manhattan Bank, and like they're gonna notice. But
14:45
Speaker 1: what happens is they raise the rates on you and me,
14:49
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, everyone across the board is
14:51
Speaker 1: paying more money for stuff. Yes, that is that is true.
14:58
Speaker 1: That is very true, and that is I think everybody
15:01
Speaker 1: should probably. I think a good companion piece that occurred
15:04
Speaker 1: to me is to go listen to our wide corporations
15:06
Speaker 1: have the same rights as you. One of the fundamental
15:10
Speaker 1: flaws of UM corporate policy is that you serve your
15:13
Speaker 1: shareholders first. Like you need to adhere to the law,
15:17
Speaker 1: but really, ultimately, like anything you can do to serve
15:21
Speaker 1: your shareholders is your mandate as a as a corporate governor.
15:26
Speaker 1: Um that includes keeping the profit margin as high as possible,
15:31
Speaker 1: which you're not gonna go to your your shareholders and
15:33
Speaker 1: be like, hey, we're making enough money. We took kind
15:36
Speaker 1: of a hit, but we're still making a ton of profit,
15:39
Speaker 1: so we'll just take a little hit this year. No,
15:42
Speaker 1: it's where we took a hit, so we're gonna fire people.
15:46
Speaker 1: However you reconcile that, I mean, that's your own personal beliefs,
15:50
Speaker 1: like what what you feel about that? But that is
15:52
Speaker 1: reality as far as business goes, Right, there's fraud, there's
15:56
Speaker 1: adjustments to the fraud, absorbing the fraud, and it's the
16:00
Speaker 1: corporation trying to get as lean as possible. Yeah, they're
16:03
Speaker 1: not going to take the hit for that. They're not
16:05
Speaker 1: gonna say, oh, well, a bunch of people defaulted on
16:08
Speaker 1: their credit cards this year. I guess we'll just have
16:10
Speaker 1: a bad year. And I know in reality that's how
16:13
Speaker 1: it works, but it's I just find it disingenuous to
16:15
Speaker 1: be like, well, everybody suffers, you know, like people lose
16:18
Speaker 1: their jobs because of thought. It's like there's a there's
16:21
Speaker 1: a point b in there that that has to be
16:24
Speaker 1: held accountable to some degree. Well, which is your own
16:27
Speaker 1: freaking ethical code of conduct? And like, how about not
16:31
Speaker 1: doing that because it's the wrong thing to do. No,
16:32
Speaker 1: but I'm saying, like there's an institution that's absorbing the
16:35
Speaker 1: hit and then turn around firing this poor guy. Yeah, exactly.
16:39
Speaker 1: It's just it's tough because I came across a word
16:42
Speaker 1: when they were describing white collar crime giving a definition
16:46
Speaker 1: of it, and they said, victims colon diffuse. You don't
16:50
Speaker 1: meet the person that the victim passes along the hit
16:55
Speaker 1: to other people. It's a big it's nebulous. And even
16:59
Speaker 1: if they're raised rates by like a quarter of a
17:02
Speaker 1: percentage point, or you're paying an extra two dollars as
17:04
Speaker 1: a consumer a year, it's like it's still not right. Yeah,
17:09
Speaker 1: you know, it's not right all over the place. So
17:12
Speaker 1: where did this come from? Uh, Josh, it came It
17:16
Speaker 1: sounds like it came from a cold wool delivery boy.
17:22
Speaker 1: I want to know more about this. Was this dude
17:23
Speaker 1: just cold or did he really steal a lot of wool?
17:25
Speaker 1: So you're talking about the carriers. The Carrier's case of
17:28
Speaker 1: fourteen seventy three, it's the first um white collar trial, yes,
17:33
Speaker 1: um and and it resulted in the first white collar
17:37
Speaker 1: law in fifteenth century England. And this wool transporter was
17:41
Speaker 1: given a bunch of wool and said, hey, take this
17:43
Speaker 1: wool to this person, and it was his job. So
17:47
Speaker 1: he decided to instead just keep the wool for himself
17:50
Speaker 1: for his own use. So he looked into this more. Yeah,
17:52
Speaker 1: I thought he might have been like cold on his
17:54
Speaker 1: journey and said, you know, I'm gonna keep some of
17:56
Speaker 1: this wool. Now, he kept some of the wool. He
17:58
Speaker 1: I think he kept all of it, but somebody gave
18:00
Speaker 1: it to him. He's like, thanks, chump, and he was.
18:04
Speaker 1: But the key is, and this is something that has
18:06
Speaker 1: has woven into the history of white collar crime. What
18:10
Speaker 1: he did was not illegal at the time. The law
18:13
Speaker 1: that was enacted as a result of the Carrier's case
18:17
Speaker 1: was they were saying, Okay, this isn't this isn't illegal,
18:20
Speaker 1: but it's obviously there's a huge problem with this, so
18:23
Speaker 1: we're going to create a law right that outlaws this
18:26
Speaker 1: act so people can't do it anymore. Good point, and
18:29
Speaker 1: basically that's what happened. Well, that's kind of what happens
18:31
Speaker 1: with every law. I guess, someone commits it first and
18:33
Speaker 1: then someone says, hey, maybe we shouldn't do that. Yeah, yeah,
18:36
Speaker 1: I guess. But in this case, especially like uh, the
18:40
Speaker 1: Industrial Revolution in the West, obviously you started getting these
18:43
Speaker 1: larger corporations and all of a sudden, things like monopolies
18:47
Speaker 1: and price fixing and employee uh safety and all these
18:51
Speaker 1: things come into effect for the first time. So that's
18:55
Speaker 1: sort of when it was really born, and when they
18:57
Speaker 1: started saying, hey, we need to look at something called
19:00
Speaker 1: to trust. Yeah. Again, like monopolies were not illegal, but
19:04
Speaker 1: when a company bought up all of its competitors and said, oh,
19:07
Speaker 1: suddenly the price for your groceries like through the roof,
19:11
Speaker 1: where else you gonna go, it wasn't illegal. But the
19:15
Speaker 1: the people of the world started screaming and governments finally responded,
19:19
Speaker 1: And it was really the US that first had the
19:21
Speaker 1: real first solid response in the Sherman Anti Trust Act
19:25
Speaker 1: in like the eighteen seventies maybe I think nine, named
19:29
Speaker 1: for John Senator John Sherman, Ohio Republican dude Chairman of
19:34
Speaker 1: the Senate's Finance Senate to Finance Committee, which I didn't
19:37
Speaker 1: know they even had way back then. I forgot didn't either,
19:40
Speaker 1: but I mean it seems like a basic committee there.
19:43
Speaker 1: So this is interesting. And that it was voted on.
19:46
Speaker 1: It won by vote of in the Senate one in
19:49
Speaker 1: the House by two forty two to zero, so there
19:52
Speaker 1: was one dude that didn't vote for it. And then
19:56
Speaker 1: I think twenty five years later when they came up
19:58
Speaker 1: with the Clayton Anti Trust Actor, really put some punch
20:01
Speaker 1: into the Sherman Act. It was two seventy seven to
20:03
Speaker 1: seventy four and forty six to sixteen. So in that
20:06
Speaker 1: twenty four years it sounds like maybe things got slightly
20:10
Speaker 1: corrupt here and there. Well it wasn't that it was that. Well,
20:14
Speaker 1: maybe it was, but there was also some real problems
20:17
Speaker 1: with the Sherman Act. It was really vague. It basically
20:19
Speaker 1: said like now from here fourth all um anti competitive
20:24
Speaker 1: corporate measures are illegal, and then it left it to
20:27
Speaker 1: the courts to decide what was what, and the courts
20:30
Speaker 1: weren't really in the mood to enforce it, so it
20:32
Speaker 1: went largely unenforced. Although American Tobacco Company and Standard Oil
20:38
Speaker 1: like two of the biggest companies in the country were
20:40
Speaker 1: dissolved under the Sherman Act, Standard Oil big time. Imagine that.
20:44
Speaker 1: Like imagine going to a company now and saying like, hey, Apple,
20:49
Speaker 1: you're just too big, so we're gonna dissolve you into
20:51
Speaker 1: thirty one companies. We have all these federal regulators here
20:55
Speaker 1: and they're gonna come in and look at everything, and
20:56
Speaker 1: that dissolve you into different companies. Sorry, that's what they did. Okay,
21:01
Speaker 1: even still it didn't have enough tea, so they came
21:03
Speaker 1: up with the Clayton Anty Trust Act, and then that
21:06
Speaker 1: one really spelled things out, like, um, you couldn't do
21:09
Speaker 1: price discrimination anymore, which if you were black in America
21:13
Speaker 1: during the Gym Crow era, price discrimination was mind boggling.
21:18
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you walk into a store if you're allowed
21:21
Speaker 1: in there to begin with, and they'll just make up
21:23
Speaker 1: whatever price they want. It's it was really I'm reading this,
21:26
Speaker 1: um consumers in an America book, and it's at this
21:29
Speaker 1: point now is really just this blemish on American history.
21:34
Speaker 1: I mean, like slavery wasn't bad enough to like have
21:38
Speaker 1: slavery light through the Jim Crow era. It's just disgusting. Um, Okay,
21:43
Speaker 1: so there was no price discrimination allegedly, corporate mergers were outlawed. Yeah, um.
21:52
Speaker 1: And then interlocking boards where you have like competitive companies
21:55
Speaker 1: but the same people on the board of each Right,
21:58
Speaker 1: you can't have that. And then also elusive contracts where
22:01
Speaker 1: it's like hey, home Depot, you can sell our um
22:06
Speaker 1: weed whackers, but you can't tell anybody else's those contracts
22:09
Speaker 1: are out right. They do stuff like that now though, right,
22:15
Speaker 1: maybe not exclusively, but they carry lives. They do not
22:17
Speaker 1: limited number of brands, corporate mergers, interlocking boards, exclusive contracts,
22:22
Speaker 1: all that stuff one a way, it all got chipped away.
22:26
Speaker 1: It's just I mean this, this, this act is like
22:29
Speaker 1: not in forts anymore. Basically, Well, that's one things that
22:32
Speaker 1: bugs me about like grocery or actually the big box
22:35
Speaker 1: hardware stores. Grocery shopping. You you only have access to
22:40
Speaker 1: what they who they have partnered with, right, whether it's
22:43
Speaker 1: your potato chip that you want or your weed whacker
22:45
Speaker 1: that you want. It's true, and most of the big
22:47
Speaker 1: box stores also have exclusive contracts the other way. It's like, yeah,
22:52
Speaker 1: we'll sell your weed whacker, but you can't sell it
22:55
Speaker 1: no one else can. So it's like a real gamble,
22:59
Speaker 1: I understand, like sign on to one of these giant corporations. Well,
23:03
Speaker 1: that's one in the Walmart effect. That was one of
23:05
Speaker 1: the things I think they used to. It's like a
23:08
Speaker 1: tent company or an awning company, and like this mom
23:11
Speaker 1: and pop awning company all of a sudden gets a
23:13
Speaker 1: Walmart contract and they're like, sweet, they answered all our prayers.
23:16
Speaker 1: They ordered like thirty thousand and these they ordered thirty thousand,
23:19
Speaker 1: They opened up like three new buildings. Hi are all
23:22
Speaker 1: these employees. And then the next year they come back
23:24
Speaker 1: and say, we want thirty thousand more, but we're gonna
23:26
Speaker 1: pay you about less. And you've already bought the buildings
23:30
Speaker 1: and even you know, invested in the in the materials
23:33
Speaker 1: and the people, and all of a sudden you're screwed.
23:36
Speaker 1: You know one thing that I've long thought and I'm
23:38
Speaker 1: gonna totally take flak for this, but I still think
23:41
Speaker 1: it's worth saying, like you here, like, well, that's just business.
23:46
Speaker 1: I feel that any any institution where like morally reprehensible
23:51
Speaker 1: acts can just be you know, off handedly dismissed as
23:55
Speaker 1: a matter of course of that institution is inherently fought.
24:01
Speaker 1: There's an inherent problem with it. Yeah, that's not okay,
24:05
Speaker 1: Like we don't just go, well, that's just murder, you know,
24:09
Speaker 1: or well that's just stealing, you know, Welcome to earth. Human. No,
24:14
Speaker 1: we have moral and legal guidelines that we follow, and
24:19
Speaker 1: business and corporations have so so long stood outside of
24:22
Speaker 1: these things that it's just it always bugs me when
24:25
Speaker 1: it's just like, what are you gonna do? Yeah, I
24:29
Speaker 1: don't like that. So sorry, I'm off my soap I
24:31
Speaker 1: agree completely. Well, I'm off of my Tide brand soapbox.
24:34
Speaker 1: Well said, um. So, things are kicking along here in
24:39
Speaker 1: the industrial West. Corporations are getting larger, and all of
24:45
Speaker 1: a sudden, these crimes start happening, and something called a
24:48
Speaker 1: muckraker in the nineteenth than early twentieth century comes about.
24:53
Speaker 1: And I didn't realize a muckraker was exclusively a journalist. Yeah,
24:56
Speaker 1: it's for an investigative journalist. I thought it would was
25:00
Speaker 1: anyone raking muck um. But it's specifically a journalist who
25:05
Speaker 1: basically early on said you know what, there's bad stuff
25:08
Speaker 1: going on see and I'm gonna expose your Oh really,
25:13
Speaker 1: and he wrote the Jungle Change. Of course, I mean
25:16
Speaker 1: the FDA basically came about because of that investigation that
25:19
Speaker 1: he conducted. Well, muckrakers raked a lot of muck and
25:21
Speaker 1: caused a lot of problems in these companies. And um,
25:25
Speaker 1: one of the things that came about because of the
25:27
Speaker 1: muckraking were, you know, things like the Clayton Act that's
25:32
Speaker 1: exactly right, exposing all this stuff exactly and things like that,
25:35
Speaker 1: the A Federal Regulations consumer protections. The muckrakers basically stirred
25:40
Speaker 1: up public sentiment like hey, don't be idiots, like this
25:42
Speaker 1: stuff's going on, and a lot of people said, well,
25:45
Speaker 1: it's not illegal. And then unfortunately there were guys like
25:49
Speaker 1: um E. A. Ross who was a criminologist and a sociologist,
25:53
Speaker 1: and he started really kind of looking into this and said,
25:56
Speaker 1: hey man, these people might not be criminal, but let's
26:00
Speaker 1: all them criminal OIDs. Like that was the coining the
26:03
Speaker 1: coin for people who, especially in business, carried out these
26:07
Speaker 1: terrible acts that weren't illegal. He argued that even though
26:11
Speaker 1: it's not illegal, they're causing ill and these people are
26:13
Speaker 1: still responsible for him. So make a law that outlaws
26:16
Speaker 1: at dummies. And he inspired a guy named E. H. Sutherland. Okay,
26:20
Speaker 1: he came before Sutherland. Yeah, he was at the Ross
26:23
Speaker 1: was working at the time of the muckrakers, and then
26:25
Speaker 1: Sutherland came about twenty years later. Yeah. Southerland coined the
26:28
Speaker 1: term actually white collar crime in nineteen thirty nine, and
26:31
Speaker 1: he was a criminologist and sociologist, and he pretty much
26:37
Speaker 1: he had a broader definition that basically it was the
26:40
Speaker 1: high society and not the lower class at all committing
26:44
Speaker 1: these crimes, which nowadays he can't really say that because
26:49
Speaker 1: anyone can get a stock tip commit in. You know,
26:52
Speaker 1: it happens all the time across all spectrums of the
26:55
Speaker 1: class system. But Sutherland's point was, and he wrote a
26:57
Speaker 1: book called white Collar Crime, UM. His point was that
27:01
Speaker 1: there was a huge bias in the United States, UM
27:04
Speaker 1: where the where law enforcement in the courts leaned heavily
27:08
Speaker 1: on the working class crimes and just basically ignored the
27:13
Speaker 1: crimes of the upper class and said this is not okay, Like, um,
27:18
Speaker 1: if a guy is gonna steal a thousand dollars from
27:21
Speaker 1: a cash register with no gun or anything like that,
27:24
Speaker 1: Like there are other factors, but let's just say a
27:27
Speaker 1: guy steals a thousand dollars from a cash register and
27:29
Speaker 1: he's poor, and a guy steals a thousand dollars from
27:31
Speaker 1: an investor and he's rich. That's they should be treated equally,
27:35
Speaker 1: and they're not. And that's what Sutherland's point was. And
27:38
Speaker 1: he was sup first dude to really bring this to light,
27:39
Speaker 1: wasn't he. Yeah, well, Ross kind of started to, but
27:43
Speaker 1: Sutherland was very well received. It was well received in
27:46
Speaker 1: certain corners, but there were also certain flaws pointed out
27:49
Speaker 1: by people over the years. Um One of the things
27:54
Speaker 1: mentioned the articles said that he failed to distinguish illegal
27:56
Speaker 1: crime from deviant mere deviant behavior, like apparently his his
28:02
Speaker 1: whole premise was like you're into donkeys, you're a white
28:05
Speaker 1: collar criminal exactly. And the other thing I mentioned too
28:08
Speaker 1: was that he pretty much said it was anyone like
28:11
Speaker 1: any upper class nonviolent crime, right, And that's definitely evolved,
28:14
Speaker 1: and I think fairly. I think you can be working class,
28:18
Speaker 1: you can be business class if you like. That's a big,
28:22
Speaker 1: big part of white collar crimes definition is your opportunity
28:25
Speaker 1: arises because of the trust that's granted to you through
28:28
Speaker 1: your occupation. Yeah, even if you're a lower level employee,
28:32
Speaker 1: you still may have access. Like the lady who wanted
28:35
Speaker 1: to sell the Coke secret. She wasn't like a CEO. No,
28:37
Speaker 1: she was an admin I believe, Yeah, exactly. Um, so
28:41
Speaker 1: there's a there's one thing that that like you said,
28:43
Speaker 1: they like to shoot a hole in Sutherland's theory that
28:49
Speaker 1: or they say his definition is too broad because he
28:51
Speaker 1: did include behavior that's not illegal. But it's a very
28:54
Speaker 1: legitimate point to say, you kind of have to because
28:58
Speaker 1: if not, then we wouldn't have had the Sherman an
29:00
Speaker 1: Anti Trust Act, we wouldn't have had the Clayton next,
29:02
Speaker 1: we wouldn't have had um, you know, the FDA, all
29:04
Speaker 1: of these things that uh that the carrier's case, he
29:08
Speaker 1: would have gotten off scott free, and what he did
29:11
Speaker 1: was not illegal. So it has to evolve over time. Agreed, Okay,
29:17
Speaker 1: and it has agreed. So let's talk about, um, I
29:21
Speaker 1: guess the impacts of today's modern white color CRME. I
29:26
Speaker 1: was like man that was suspensible all of a sudden. Um. Yeah.
29:30
Speaker 1: We've talked about a few of these about it seemingly
29:33
Speaker 1: not having a victim. But what happens is, um, you
29:36
Speaker 1: rip off a huge corporation, the race of prices. There's
29:39
Speaker 1: another ripple effect. You talked about cutting jobs to meet
29:43
Speaker 1: you know, the needs of the investors if it's a
29:44
Speaker 1: publicly traded company. Um, when there's stock fraud committed insider
29:48
Speaker 1: scandals like Enron are going to ripple out throughout the
29:52
Speaker 1: stock market cause, like you know, basically cause people to
29:57
Speaker 1: be unsure and have no faith in the stock market
29:59
Speaker 1: all the sudden. Yeah that's dangerous. Yeah, I think about
30:02
Speaker 1: all the people who just lost everything. Oh my god,
30:08
Speaker 1: I get Yeah, I get just as angry, if not
30:10
Speaker 1: more angry at something like that than you know, something
30:13
Speaker 1: like heinous crime. Yeah, that's an equal Yeah, they're both scumbags. Okay. Um,
30:21
Speaker 1: so you said, like in seventy four the FBI first
30:26
Speaker 1: started they that's when they've created this white color Kime division.
30:30
Speaker 1: So apparently like yes, and it was a response like
30:35
Speaker 1: this University of Michigan survey that they conducted between nineteen
30:39
Speaker 1: fifty eight, I think in nineteen seventy three, they found that, um,
30:43
Speaker 1: people who said that they trust the federal government went
30:46
Speaker 1: from seventy three to thirty seven percent between nineteen fifty
30:52
Speaker 1: eight and nineteen seventy three. Yeah, flo flopped. I could
30:56
Speaker 1: see that over that time period. The sixties. Yeah, one
30:58
Speaker 1: of the big ones was just like fraud and corruption
31:01
Speaker 1: at high levels, and so the FBI created this white
31:04
Speaker 1: collar crime thing. One of the other things that differentiates
31:07
Speaker 1: white collar crime from regular working class crime is the
31:12
Speaker 1: police's ability to police it. Right, you walk into a
31:17
Speaker 1: room and there's some guy weighing out cocaine, he's a criminal.
31:22
Speaker 1: You walk into a room and there's some guy on
31:24
Speaker 1: a computer doing a pump and dump scheme. Who knows
31:29
Speaker 1: that average cop isn't equipped to detect this kind of crime.
31:33
Speaker 1: And as a matter of fact, even very very well
31:35
Speaker 1: trained cops aren't typically equipped to detect this kind of crime.
31:39
Speaker 1: One of the hallmarks of white collar crime is that
31:41
Speaker 1: it's very difficult to prove. It's very difficult to uncover,
31:44
Speaker 1: and it's also difficult to prosecute. Yeah, and there's no uh,
31:49
Speaker 1: smoking gun, there's no paper trail, or there may be
31:51
Speaker 1: a paper trail, but it's probably electronified. Sure, so it's
31:58
Speaker 1: a little harder to follow. You gotta really, you know,
32:00
Speaker 1: you gotta have people that know what they're doing. And
32:03
Speaker 1: that's why the FBI created that division, And I guess
32:06
Speaker 1: they're doing a good job, but it's kind of hard. Well,
32:09
Speaker 1: the Justice Department has been going after white collar crime
32:12
Speaker 1: lately under Obama pretty hard here there. Um, and then
32:16
Speaker 1: the Sarbanes Oxley Act definitely step things up, and some
32:21
Speaker 1: say too much. Yeah, I mean I've had to comply
32:24
Speaker 1: with this at various uh when I worked in the
32:26
Speaker 1: film as Is production, companies had to like to jump
32:29
Speaker 1: through way more hoops of paperwork because the Sarbanes Oxley
32:34
Speaker 1: do you want to talk to you want to tell them? Well,
32:35
Speaker 1: it's it was in two thousand two, and it was
32:38
Speaker 1: to improve corporate governance, which is basically accountability between corporation
32:43
Speaker 1: and the stakeholders. What it amounted to was a lot
32:47
Speaker 1: more paperwork, essentially more proving of numbers and showing numbers
32:52
Speaker 1: and jumping through hoops. It was a direct reaction from
32:57
Speaker 1: of the fallout of Enron, from the fallout of en
33:00
Speaker 1: On and Tycho and like all the other companies around
33:03
Speaker 1: that time. Um. But one of the other things that
33:05
Speaker 1: did chuckers was, um A quadrupled sentences in a lot
33:09
Speaker 1: of cases for white collar crime. So now you have
33:12
Speaker 1: guys like Bernie made Off getting a hundred and fifty years.
33:15
Speaker 1: There's a guy named Sholem Weiss who was involved in
33:19
Speaker 1: like the breakup of some insurance company. He got eight
33:22
Speaker 1: hundred and forty five years. He gets out in twenty
33:26
Speaker 1: seven fifty four. I don't think he's gonna see that.
33:29
Speaker 1: I don't either, But I mean a guy named rich
33:30
Speaker 1: Harkness got a hundred years for thirty nine million dollar
33:33
Speaker 1: ponzi scheme like these and all of this is like
33:37
Speaker 1: post Sarbanes Oxley, except Sholm Wisse, which is really saying something.
33:42
Speaker 1: But but I mean, like, so now now sentences are
33:46
Speaker 1: like quadruple. It's like, well, wait a minute, maybe maybe
33:49
Speaker 1: this is a little too much like just retribution on
33:52
Speaker 1: the rich. It is, and that's kind of I think
33:56
Speaker 1: why a lot of people are having a hard time
33:59
Speaker 1: feeling bad. Are ridiculously wealthy people who were hucksters and frauds,
34:05
Speaker 1: or people who built people out of their retirement accounts.
34:08
Speaker 1: It's tough to feel sorry for him. But legally speaking,
34:11
Speaker 1: it's like, well, wait a minute, um, you were worried
34:13
Speaker 1: about the guy who stole a thousand dollars out of
34:15
Speaker 1: it till being treated differently from the guy who stole
34:18
Speaker 1: a thousand dollars from an investor. Now it's flip floped.
34:21
Speaker 1: How is that any better. One of the arguments for
34:24
Speaker 1: these kind of things is that these people are traditionally
34:29
Speaker 1: and historically have been treated differently because they look like
34:33
Speaker 1: the judges that are sentencing them, and so judges historically
34:37
Speaker 1: like really have taken it easy on them. Um, let's
34:40
Speaker 1: go ahead and just call them white dudes, Okay, but
34:42
Speaker 1: they also have been Um, you can make the case
34:46
Speaker 1: that they are usually first time offenders, they're usually family people. Um,
34:52
Speaker 1: that's that's something that the judges put out there, like, well,
34:54
Speaker 1: this is a family man, he's not much of a
34:56
Speaker 1: flight risk, he's probably never going to do this again
35:00
Speaker 1: of the society. Yes, he didn't use a weapon, which
35:02
Speaker 1: is a huge, huge differentiation, and so sentences have typically
35:06
Speaker 1: typically been light. But um, you can you can also
35:10
Speaker 1: kind of say, well, you know where where it feels
35:12
Speaker 1: like we haven't quite felt it out, Like we've traditionally
35:14
Speaker 1: ignored white collar crime. Now we're really sticking it to him. Well,
35:19
Speaker 1: it's that whole argument with prison. Is it like punishment
35:22
Speaker 1: for a crime done or is it rehabilitating a person
35:25
Speaker 1: who has a problem with crime? Well, within eight hundred
35:29
Speaker 1: and forty five years sentence, it's making an example out
35:32
Speaker 1: of that person, because since you can't police it, another
35:36
Speaker 1: way to prevent it is to send a message through
35:39
Speaker 1: the courts, like you do this man, you're going to
35:42
Speaker 1: prison for a long time. Yeah. I don't know if
35:45
Speaker 1: that's such a deterrent though for some of these people.
35:47
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, I think about it. Twenty
35:50
Speaker 1: years in a in a federal penn You say Club
35:52
Speaker 1: fed is not around any longer, um, And I mean this,
35:56
Speaker 1: this is like twenty actual years. Um. Some guy named
36:00
Speaker 1: Thomas Peters recently got fifty years and he will spend
36:04
Speaker 1: forty years in jail. And he's fifty two, and he
36:07
Speaker 1: will probably die in prison. Now that's a big deal
36:10
Speaker 1: with somebody who's like, well, maybe I shouldn't do this
36:13
Speaker 1: insider track, Maybe I should let this fifty grands just
36:16
Speaker 1: walk by because it's not really worth it. Well something
36:18
Speaker 1: like that. I'm talking about the ones who are getting
36:21
Speaker 1: rich by the tens of millions of dollars. What I
36:24
Speaker 1: want to see is that these people don't get out
36:26
Speaker 1: of prison and still have all those millions of dollars
36:31
Speaker 1: like hidden in different foreign accounts and offshore islands and ah. Like.
36:38
Speaker 1: The financial part is what really bugs me. I meant to,
36:40
Speaker 1: I didn't get a chance. I meant to look up
36:42
Speaker 1: and see if any of the en Ron victims and
36:44
Speaker 1: employees where ever repaid or if they were just s
36:48
Speaker 1: O L. I'm under the distinct impression they were s
36:51
Speaker 1: ol because the company was in such bad shape that
36:54
Speaker 1: even dissolving it. And I think I think they some
36:59
Speaker 1: people did get money, but I don't think it was
37:02
Speaker 1: anything approaching what they lost. Well, whoever commits these crimes
37:05
Speaker 1: gets out of jail and they have two pennies to
37:07
Speaker 1: rub together, then those two pennies more than they should have.
37:11
Speaker 1: I think, Well, that's the thing. Like, so, the government
37:13
Speaker 1: started prosecuting under the Rico Act, which is the same
37:16
Speaker 1: thing they bust up mafia organizations with UM and they've
37:20
Speaker 1: been fighting white collar crime with that. And one of
37:22
Speaker 1: the things about the Rico Act as it allows states
37:26
Speaker 1: and individuals who are harmed to sue for up to
37:29
Speaker 1: three times the damages. Yeah, but even then all they
37:32
Speaker 1: have to do is say, yeah, I don't have that money.
37:34
Speaker 1: You kid me. Well, it's true, can't pay it. No,
37:36
Speaker 1: it's true. But like UM in the made Off case,
37:39
Speaker 1: the guy who's who was assigned to basically get money
37:42
Speaker 1: back for investors has gotten I don't remember how much
37:46
Speaker 1: made off fleece, but let's say it was eight billion.
37:48
Speaker 1: The guys managed to like get like six billion back. Yeah,
37:52
Speaker 1: he's done a really good job of getting the money back.
37:54
Speaker 1: And that's just a that's that's an example. It's not
37:57
Speaker 1: a figure, but it's it's something pretty significant. You're still
38:01
Speaker 1: gonna get email. I'm looking forward to the ones. But
38:04
Speaker 1: it's like, hey man, we don't listen to you for
38:07
Speaker 1: free to hear your opinion about class. All right, let's
38:11
Speaker 1: move on to other countries. Um, things are different all
38:14
Speaker 1: over the world. Um. Obviously, when it comes to big
38:17
Speaker 1: business and business dealings. Uh. Western Europe has followed right
38:23
Speaker 1: behind the US, UH most wholeheartedly with laws to prevent corruption.
38:27
Speaker 1: Eastern Europe's coming on board a little slower. Um. But
38:31
Speaker 1: then you go into other countries like in Western Africa,
38:34
Speaker 1: and it may be customary to Greece palms to get
38:38
Speaker 1: a deal going, or in India where apparently, if you're
38:41
Speaker 1: a truck driver, you're gonna have to bribe people to
38:44
Speaker 1: keep your rig on the road. And that's just how
38:46
Speaker 1: it is there, right, And not only is it customary.
38:48
Speaker 1: It's frequently legal, yeah, Russia. Yeah, bribes all over the place.
38:53
Speaker 1: If you want to land contract, you might have to
38:55
Speaker 1: bribe somebody. So if you're a multinational corporation, it's tough
38:59
Speaker 1: to do this headquarter in America. Yeah, you have like
39:02
Speaker 1: a real problem facing you. Especially, like I said, the
39:05
Speaker 1: UM Justice Department under Obama has been prosecuting white color
39:09
Speaker 1: crimes and going big time after UM people under the
39:13
Speaker 1: Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, which says if you're an American company,
39:17
Speaker 1: you can't engage in bribes, even if it's legal in
39:19
Speaker 1: that country. Yeah. But what's the point, like why hamstring
39:24
Speaker 1: American business abroad? Exactly? UM? And to help this out, actually,
39:32
Speaker 1: there has been a unified committee called the UM company
39:36
Speaker 1: I'm sorry committee called Transparency International, and they are out
39:40
Speaker 1: to get rid of corruption and to unify business business
39:44
Speaker 1: ethics all over the world. Right, And that's the that's
39:47
Speaker 1: the reason that you hamstring American business because it's basically saying, hey, uh,
39:51
Speaker 1: we can take the hit in the hopes of pressing
39:53
Speaker 1: the rest of the world into the same clean up
39:55
Speaker 1: their act. Competitive laws we have here in the States
40:00
Speaker 1: that work very well. It's so good luck to them. Yeah,
40:05
Speaker 1: that's it, man, I got nothing else. No, we should
40:08
Speaker 1: we should play this one out with um the talking
40:11
Speaker 1: heads big business agreed. Okay, Um, so Chuck, let's see. Uh.
40:17
Speaker 1: If people want to learn more about white collar crime,
40:20
Speaker 1: I would strongly advise them to go read this article
40:23
Speaker 1: by Jay McGrath of John And there's a Simpsons reference
40:26
Speaker 1: in it. It's a way to go, Jane. Um. You
40:28
Speaker 1: can type in white collar crime in the search part
40:31
Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com, which friend oh brings up listener. Ma'am,
40:38
Speaker 1: that's right, Josh, I'm gonna call this, uh hot off.
40:41
Speaker 1: The press is good cause I'm okay, Chuck and Josh
40:46
Speaker 1: and Jerry. I want to say thank you for all
40:48
Speaker 1: the hours of listening. My brother Chase and I've been
40:51
Speaker 1: listeners nearly as long because you have been making them.
40:54
Speaker 1: There was even one New Year's Day where all we
40:56
Speaker 1: would do was listen to your hangover podcast on UP.
41:01
Speaker 1: I don't think. I don't know if that's good for hangover. Uh.
41:04
Speaker 1: It's funny and informative, and I always feel like calling
41:07
Speaker 1: my brother after listening to the latest episode. I'm writing
41:10
Speaker 1: you because it's recently his birthday. He's the best brother
41:13
Speaker 1: in the world and downright awesome human being. It would
41:16
Speaker 1: mean a lot to me if you could tell the
41:18
Speaker 1: stuff you should know listeners about his latest project. When
41:21
Speaker 1: his friend Jim survived cancer, he told Chase that he
41:24
Speaker 1: gained strength in the music he loved. Over two years,
41:28
Speaker 1: two hundred, twenty six hundred tracks, two hundred tracks, that's
41:34
Speaker 1: a weird way to put it. What would that be?
41:37
Speaker 1: Two would that be? Wait? How many two hundred? Dred
41:46
Speaker 1: would it? Or dred? No? Plus two hundred, twenty hundred
41:54
Speaker 1: nearly two hundred artists persons insane, No, she's not. Over
42:01
Speaker 1: two years, two hundred tracks. Nearly two hundred artists from
42:04
Speaker 1: other countries all over the world have allowed them to
42:07
Speaker 1: share that message. They are releasing their second compilation disc
42:11
Speaker 1: Electronic Saviors colon Industrial Music to Cure cancer. So it's
42:17
Speaker 1: these artists compilations are putting together apparently two tracks. Uh.
42:23
Speaker 1: They're a registered US charity and all proceeds go to
42:27
Speaker 1: cancer research. And if you want, if you're into electronic
42:30
Speaker 1: music and if you want to support cancer research, you
42:34
Speaker 1: can go to www. Dot Electronic Saviors dot com. And
42:40
Speaker 1: that is something Chase has got going and his sister
42:42
Speaker 1: Laura Dudley. UH is a big fan of her bro
42:46
Speaker 1: He sounds like a swell guy. I'm all for it. Cancer.
42:52
Speaker 1: We had to promote a good cause, chuckers. We try
42:55
Speaker 1: to do that. Um. Yeah, we always want to hear
42:59
Speaker 1: about good causes. So you can get in touch with us.
43:03
Speaker 1: Let us know about yours. We'll try our best to
43:05
Speaker 1: let everybody else know about it, especially if people can
43:07
Speaker 1: support it. Agreed. Um, let's see also enjoy Little Talking Heads,
43:12
Speaker 1: Big Business from the live album Stop Making Sense released
43:15
Speaker 1: to nine eight four. We're sure it's up on iTunes,
43:17
Speaker 1: Amazon and elsewhere. Um. You can get in touch with
43:21
Speaker 1: us at s Y s K podcast on Twitter. Uh,
43:24
Speaker 1: you can go to Facebook dot com slash stuff you
43:26
Speaker 1: should Know, and you can send us a regular old
43:30
Speaker 1: email by wrapping it up, spanking it on the bottom,
43:33
Speaker 1: and sending it off to Stuff podcast at Discovery dot com.
43:57
Speaker 1: For more on this and thousands of other topics, does
43:59
Speaker 1: it how stuff works dot com. H brought to you
44:08
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44:12
Speaker 1: you