Latest / The Rave Social Podcast / 62 Building Wealth & Confidence in the Beauty Industry with Nicole Nixon

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62 Building Wealth & Confidence in the Beauty Industry with Nicole Nixon · The Rave Social Podcast

• 0:12
  SPEAKER_03: Hello and welcome back to the Rave Social Podcast.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_03: I'm your host, Jaden, and today we have Nicole on our podcast.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_03: Nicole is a former hairstylist, and she spent more than 25 years inside the professional hair industry.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_03: After stumbling into beauty school on a whim, she built a career behind the chair before moving into education, developing programs for major professional brands like sexy hair, DivaCurl, and Colorproof.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_03: What she loved most wasn't just teaching technique.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_03: It was watching hairstylists build confidence, raise their rates, and step into bigger careers.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_03: Since going freelance in 2017 and launching her creative agency in 2020, Nicole has helped hundreds of hairstylists, salon owners, educators, and founders build brands that get them booked out, sold out, and paid well, all with a mission to close the wage gap in personal care and help more women build careers defined by money, choice, and freedom.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_03: So basically, we're obsessed with Nicole.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to the podcast.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: I like her.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_03: Me too.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_03: And honestly, that is what you do.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like I've always been so inspired by your mission because you're such like you are a girl's girl.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_03: Like you're the core of a girl's girl, a true one, one that empowers women to go after their dreams, make a shit ton of money, have freedom in their lives.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_03: So we're obsessed with you.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thanks.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: The feeling is beautiful.
• 1:42
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um, okay, today we're gonna talk with Nicole about all things beauty, but really like building these careers in the beauty industry, what that's like, Nicole's own journey with that, how you can make better content and build a stronger brand.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_03: So we're really gonna dive in.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_03: Are you guys ready?
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_03: You better be ready.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_03: First, I want to talk about your journey in beauty school.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_03: So, what made you go into that?
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_03: When did you start to realize you wanted to shift and pivot?
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_03: What got you started?
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I like so many young people out of high school, I had absolutely no idea what I was gonna do.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was going to junior college with my best friend at the time.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: And one day she just decided she was gonna leave and she was gonna go go to beauty school.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, the fuck you are leaving me here by myself.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, okay, I guess I'm going to beauty school.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: And like literally, that was it.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: I had never thought about it before.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: I had never once had an inkling that I'm like, ooh, maybe I could do hair.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I just did it and it was fine.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I was an okay hairstylist.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't feel like that burning passion that a lot of hairstylists have to like do hair.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I also wasn't the kind of hairstylist that could be like uber creative.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: I was really good at replicating things and I could take something and like do what you wanted, but like being creative and like uh that like scared me.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, so I was fine at doing hair.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then uh I had my daughter when I was 25, and so that like kind of immediately shifted my whole world, and I had to figure out like how I was gonna take care of us because I also like became a single mom at the same time.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I decided to reach out to like local beauty companies really for any kind of job.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: I applied to sexy hair for our receptionist position, and the corporate office was like 15 minutes from my house.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so the director of education called me and was like, Why are you applying for a receptionist job when you have the experience?
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, honestly, I just need a job and I need benefits, and I have a child to take care of now, and so life is different.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: And she was like, Well, we have this other opportunity that might be more suited for your tier skills, and so I ended up taking a job as the manager of their advanced academy and that kind of stuff.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: I know it was like really perfect timing.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: And uh it was it really set me on like the path for the rest of my career because again, like I had no idea these jobs existed.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: When I went to beauty school, I had no idea that this like other world existed and product, and so I worked for sexy hair for eight years and I pretty much did anything and everything you could do in education there, and then I knew that I wasn't going to be able to climb the quote unquote ladder there because I had a great boss and she was doing a good job, and so like she wasn't going anywhere.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I left sexy hair and I went to Colorproof to take my first like director's role, and that was really fucking hard.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: I was commuting like 150 miles round trip three days a week.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, it was a lot.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: But I knew like in LA too, right?
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: I was driving from the San Fernando Valley to Orange County three days a week.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, commitment.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so but I also knew that I was not going to get to the next level financially or like in my like title if I didn't make a big shift.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so I worked there for a while.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: I was director of education for pulperiot for about a year.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I and then like COVID happened, and I got fired from Pulpa Riot because we just weren't a good fit.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: But then I was consulting for a while and then like COVID happened.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then I was like, well, shit, I'm already unemployed.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: So like what's the risk?
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna start this business.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I always felt really passionately about helping hairstylists because this industry is just like really undervalued.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: For being like a multi-billion dollar industry, the actual people inside of it are really undervalued.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I know we're gonna get into like, you know, women in industries and like how they're affected, but I really wanted to try to find another way to help women and women in hair in hair um build careers, build businesses that weren't fallback careers because that's like the stigma is like, oh, you could do hair, you know, it'll be like a fallback career.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: And that's how I thought of it too when I went to beauty school.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's like so it's so hard to be a hairstylist.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: There's no way this could be a fallback career.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's really, really hard.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah, so I've been running my agency for six years now, and I've worked with hundreds of hairstylists helping them build brands, and I am just like, you know, women.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: I just really want to help women.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I just, I just love, I just love it.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, she's for the girls.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_03: I told you.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_03: She's literally for the girls.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um, no, it's so true.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_03: My best friend is, she's a salon owner.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_03: I see what she goes through, I see how hard she works, and I'm just like, oh my God, like that, it's it is so much, and it's so, it is so undervalued, and it's so confusing because like why?
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_03: Like it doesn't, it it's such like it's cultural.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's so interesting why it's so undervalued.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's like such a bigger, it's not just the hair industry, but it's like, you know, systematically we undervalue women in profession.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so um, you know, in the United States, 80 87, 88% of hairstylists are women, and we make up about 20% of like um agency represented celebrity stylists.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: We make up about 15 to 20 percent of like big artistic teams on like big companies like Redcan or L'Oreal, and um, and we make like 96 cents to the dollar for male hairstylists.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I could go on and on about all of the reasons why I think that happens, um, but it really is such a it's such a testament to like how hard women have to work.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of women get into this industry because they don't have any other options or they are trying to do their best for their families and they don't know how to raise their prices.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: They don't know how to build a business because the last thing that they teach us in business in um beauty school, the last thing that they teach us in beauty school is how to actually be an entrepreneur.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like you barely learn enough to actually pass your boards and like get licensed, and then they're like, bye bye.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: And you're like, how do I get a client?
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how do I?
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it's just there's such a gap in learning when it comes to like what this career can really be, because you can make it like I am, I am also, I think, a testament to like you can make it anything you want it to be, because I truly had no idea that this path existed when I signed up for cosmetology school.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_03: I it's so true.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_03: I think sometimes, like sometimes I've told Brad, like, if I just run my, if I ran my business more like a man, here are the decisions that I would make.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_03: Here's what I would do.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I never want to actually do it because it doesn't feel right to me.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_03: But it's so interesting.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_03: I just I when I think of it, how would I run this if I was a man?
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_03: It's like I would 4X my prices.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_03: I would not give a shit if XYZ happened.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_03: I would just honestly, they're all kind of negative, and I don't want to be a man hater.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_03: But like the way men run businesses is so different from how women run businesses.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't think we should run our businesses more like a man, but at the same time, how do you how do you get valued as if you were a man when you are a woman?
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_03: I don't, yeah.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_03: How do what's your advice?
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I number one, I think it's how we are, it's how we're raised.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, from children, you know, women or girls are asked.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I'm gonna start over.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think it starts from when we're young.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, little girls are taught to be quiet and proper and you know, not make a fuss.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: And boys are, you know, encouraged to get dirty and have adventures and be brave.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so like we are like that is downloaded into our brains so young that as we get older, there's no wonder that, you know, men ask for raises, they ask for promotions, they are they're brave in that way.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, that's great.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like I don't want to, I'm not taking that away from men, but I also think that there's there's this other side that women don't know how to do that because we're just encouraged to be the opposite.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: And unless you really seek that out, unless you are pushing through that barrier that you've been taught your whole life, you know, you will kind of stay in that place where you are not seeking the opportunities, you're not taking the risks, you're not being brave like that.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, women are brave, but I think there's this other element in like corporate America where like it's just less likely that a woman is going to push through that boundary because a lot of women just have never been told they're allowed to.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_03: And like you're so often speaking to a man.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_03: Like I remember an experience I had when I was quite young, but working a full-time legitimate job, and I overheard a conversation in the office about offering someone a job, and the person they were offering a job was a woman.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and they said something along the lines of, well, we don't have to pay her as much because she doesn't have a family or kids.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, It's like a beautiful thing.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_03: I think I was like, yeah, I was pretty young too, and I was like, ah, like I could not believe what I had heard.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_03: But from overhearing that from people in power, which would be the people that would give me a raise or whatever, I was like immediately knew like I'm not as valuable as the man sitting next to me because for some reason, because he has a wife and kids, that makes him even though like I was like, this doesn't make any sense.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, and I think this is another, you know, something that I when I speak out against like women in the industry not getting these opportunities on these big teams or you know, being able to travel as much as men do, and it's like, well, women have kids, women have families.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, hi, they had to make them with somebody.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: Why is this woman expected to stay home with her kids and not have a career?
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like, but nobody is going to put that on.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: I won't say nobody, but most of the time you're not putting that same expectation on a man because, like, that's woman's work.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you're supposed to stay home and take care of the kids.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just like, Yeah, like as somebody who had a career while raising a child and did it mostly by myself, you know, I can tell you that like it's possible.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it is absolutely possible.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: And there are a lot of women out there doing it, but we are constantly up against these barriers of like, yeah, but aren't you aren't you worried about being away from your kid?
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, it's it absolutely sucked, but I also You should also worry about the man being away from his kid.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we don't really talk about that as much.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that makes no sense.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_03: Uh yeah, that actually brings me to a question that I had for you, which is you do talk a lot about closing that gap we were just mentioning.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm curious what that looks like.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_03: What does that look like for hairstylists that you personally work with?
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_03: Because I know you work on like the branding side of things, but how does the work you do feed into charging more, closing that wage gap?
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it, you know, branding on its own is obviously not going to spike your income, you know, a beautiful logo or like the right color palette, the right fonts.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's not alone going to make you more money.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: But for me, branding is like making a stand that like your business is worth something, like you're investing in this thing that is so is deserving of that kind of care and attention.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think when you're building a brand, it's like it is like raising a child almost because you're giving it your, you're telling the world that like I care about this thing, this thing is of value, and you know, I have something that I can offer you, I can help you with something, I have a solution to your problem.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so when I work with hairstylists on building a brand, it really is number one, it's breaking through that idea that like, oh, I just need the logo and I'm good, like I'm set.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: But it's so much more than that.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: And recently I've been really focusing on breaking through like that next phase because investing in branding on its own is not gonna do anything for you if you're not able to turn it around and then like show it to people.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: So if you can't market your business because you're scared of showing up or you feel vulnerable, or you feel like I'm just not good at this, like that's you've all you've wasted a bunch of money on branding because like it's not gonna do anything for you.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, it's it's like digging in and figuring out like what really is special about every hairstylist, because at the end of the day, like people are cutting hair, they're coloring hair, they're doing extensions, like it's all kind of the same thing.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: But everybody has their own experiences, their own perspective.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: And when you're able to kind of like draw that out of somebody, and then you're able to give them like, okay, so here's how you can talk about that.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: And then you see them like adapting that, and then it's like, oh, well, like there's like this new confidence, and they really feel like they do deserve to have these things.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think number one, I think women, there are a lot of women that feel like I like I don't just maybe I don't deserve that, maybe I shouldn't ask for that.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: I should be grateful for what I have.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: But like yes, you should be grateful for what you have, but like being grateful will keep you where you are.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so for me, it's really encouraging women to believe that they are deserving of those things, to believe that their voice should be heard and that their opinions matter.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I think that is something that a lot of people struggle with with social media, and I'm sure you hear this all the time is like, nobody cares.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody cares about what I have to say.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: But the truth is, the most successful people that I've worked with are the ones that have been so themselves, and they don't care about that like idea of who cares.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're gonna say it and they're gonna find their people.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: And and staying on that course is like what builds really successful brands.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's really a lot of mental work.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's like the branding itself is kind of like secondary, but it's like that belief that what I do is of value and what I say matters, and that I deserve to take up space, not only in just like this industry, but like as a woman in the world.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's it feels really empowering when it like clicks for people.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, it there are have been people that like it didn't click, and it's like, okay, how do we, what can we do next to kind of like push you through?
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, sometimes it's just sometimes I can't, I can't get them there.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: And and then that's frustrating for me, but like there are also like a lot of times where I'm like, oh wow, that really worked, and here we are.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's really exciting.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_03: That's so normal in business that like sometimes there's ones that don't click, like that's totally normal because it's such like a it's an energetic exchange always, and sometimes it's just not right or whatever.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_03: But um, I loved what you were saying about the confidence of having good branding, because that is so true.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_03: Like when your branding feels legit, then you feel legit, then you show up different.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's so true.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_03: Like, if you're using a Canva graphic, which no shame, everybody starts somewhere, but like if you're using a cranva graphic logo and like some like a color palette you found on Pinterest or whatever, like there's something about that that doesn't feel legit on a subconscious level to most people.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_03: And when you've invested, like I remember when I invested in my branding, I was like, damn, that's a lot of money.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_03: And then I invested in my website and I was like, wow, that's a lot of money.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_03: And then I invested in a sales page and I was like, holy shit.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_03: But every step in that process made me feel more like I already knew I was good at what I was doing, but it didn't feel like my visual identity aligned with how good I was.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_03: So like I think that's the same thing for hairstylists.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: I I 100% agree with you.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: And something that like what my very first boss at sexy hair used to tell me is that like perception is reality.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: So it doesn't matter how what you think of yourself, it only matters what the client thinks.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that was what we always used to think about when we were creating education or like marketing a new product.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: It was like, okay, it doesn't really matter what we think of this.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: We can think it's the greatest thing ever, but if it doesn't connect with the hairstylist, if it doesn't connect with the consumer, then like it doesn't, it it doesn't matter.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so you have to really think about how you can position yourself to be perceived by people and how you can be of value to people.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: And those things do matter.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: I know there's like a lot of conversation about like, does it matter how you show up on Instagram?
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: Does it does your feed matter?
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: Does your and like for me, like even from 2020 when I started this business to now, and I think that the branding in the hair industry has changed because it was very focused on Canva templates and graphics and you know, things like and like the aesthetic.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: And that is still really important, but I've almost kind of like taken a step back and trying to encourage people to look at things from like big picture perspective is like not everything has to be perfect, but it all has to feel like it lives in the same house.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like it all has to be in the same family.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you can do that really intentionally without spending a ton of time on Canva, without, you know, killing yourself for hours a day trying to make everything perfect.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: But what really helps you is having that foundation of like creative direction, visual identity, strategy, like understanding the choices to make so that when you go to make them, it's like, oh, I already I've already done this part, so everything feels a little bit easier.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so true.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_03: And one thing else you said earlier about like feeling like who cares or why would I post this?
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_03: It all goes back to like this is with any service provider online, but the way you show up online is why people are gonna work with you.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_03: Like it goes, especially for like photographers, especially for hairstylists, like your editing style is probably not different from the next photographer.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_03: Your hair, like your blonding technique is probably not different from all the other girls, even at your salon, right?
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_03: Like, it's not that different, but what makes the experience different is you for the most part.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_03: Like they're talking to you, they're having an experience with you.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_03: And so when you're afraid to show up online and do a talking head video, but everyone's so afraid of that.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_03: It's like it doesn't matter.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_03: People, it's like you're having a conversation with the person in your chair and you're just helping them build the confidence to book you because they know that you're you're not going to annoy them for eight hours while you're doing extensions.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the thing about like being that interaction, you are with people for so long, especially like people like you know, that have to do like color corrections or big extension transformations.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like some people are there for like six, seven hours.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so like I've never been to a hairstylist that I wouldn't like have a drink with.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like the kind of person that I could spend some time with.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, the one I had I've had like one really bad hairstylist experience, and it was because I went to somebody that I didn't know at all.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: Because I've always had educators and you know, I've always been around hairstylists, so I'm like, I always know people, but I wanted to like experience a salon where like nobody knew me, and it was like the worst experience ever because the communication was so bad, like the hair was fine, but it felt so impersonal, and I was like, this is exactly like what not to do.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and because communication and like trust and that connection you Have with your hairstylist is like it's really unlike anything else.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: And it's when I say, like, our industry is so different, and people will be like, okay, whatever.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like every industry says that.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, no, no, like you don't really understand like how different the hair industry is because people tell their whole lives to their hairstylists.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like their hairstylists are with you through marriage and kids and divorces and deaths.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like they see you through your whole life.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: And there's very few people that are like legally able to like touch you and you know put their hands on you in that kind of way.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, obviously the good way, but yeah.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: No, we know what you mean.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: But like that, that kind of connection with somebody is like very rare.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_03: You don't really get that from somebody unless you know nobody's just like touching your head, like ever in your life.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, I know it's very personal.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_03: That's like your crown chakra.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_03: Like, let's be real.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_03: There's like energy in that area.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um, that's it's so true.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_03: Those relationships are so deep.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_03: And when you are afraid to talk on the internet, which I'm sorry, you have to get over it.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_03: You the option is get over it.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's honestly at this point, like you can't really ignore it anymore.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_03: No, you have to get over it.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_03: You're gonna get better clients too.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_03: That's the part of it I think that people skip over their self-fish in a way of thinking about like, I don't want to put myself out there, I don't want to put myself out there.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but what if all of your clients were incredible because they actually love you?
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's what can happen when you're willing to share about yourself.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I was actually talking, I did a I taught a class a couple weeks ago at a salon here, and I was talking about sharing more social proof because a lot of a lot of hairstylists don't do that.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_03: Like they're not sharing their, they'll share like a hair picture, but it's like, well, what did they say about it?
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_03: Like, did they like it?
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_03: What was their take, you know?
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I was talking to them about when you're following up with a client on how their hair was, they just spent six hours with you telling them their life story.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_03: Bring up something in that conversation.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_03: Say, are you excited about your trip?
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_03: How are you feeling about blah, blah, blah?
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_03: By the way, how's your hair?
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_03: Like, it's so easy because they're they are telling you.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_03: You don't even have you don't have to do any of the work.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_03: Like, just pull something from your conversation.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um, did like check in on them.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they were all like, Oh, and then they were like, That's that that sounds hard.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, it's just literally literally could be automated.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, come on.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: But it's true, like excuse stuff that's hard.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes you do.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_03: We're Capricorns, so we really get that.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_03: But sometimes people don't get that.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_03: Uh but sometimes you have to do what you don't want to do.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_03: But no, it's just so the basis of this is just you know your clients so well.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and by sharing about yourself, you can get even more aligned clients so that you like your job even more.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: And specifically, I mean, actually, specifically to that point, is social media is so powerful because you can literally change the way people see you with how people post your content, the kind of content you post.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if for example, if like you wanted to specialize in blonding and you didn't want to do haircutting anymore, you don't want to do whatever, if you're just like constantly showing people blonding and how you do them and the before and afters and the reactions and all the things, like that's what you're gonna get.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: You're going to get what you put out.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: So social media is like so much more than just like showing up and like showing off.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't think it's that anymore at all.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's it's just a way to have a conversation with more people because nobody wants to pass out business cards anymore.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I always am like, you guys want to go back to the times where like we had to stop people in the grocery store to like hand out business cards?
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: Cause that sucked.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't want to do that.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this tool is like obviously not the only tool in your toolbox, but like it's the most effective, the most efficient, and you can really create any kind of perception.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: You really can be in control of a lot of how people perceive you by what you show them.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you have to absolutely make it real about that.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_03: Like, do you guys really want to be post?
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_03: Because I think the narrative is always like, oh, it used to be so much easier.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_03: It used to be so much easier.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_03: But it's like, were you doing yeah, it was just different.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, were you there?
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_03: Were you doing it?
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_03: You know?
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and it was just different.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_03: And things were valued differently then than now.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I guess sure, we could go back in time when you could charge a hundred dollars for a highlight, but do you even want that?
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_03: Like, uh, that doesn't sound good either.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: No, and the services are so different.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's not just a partial and a full highlight anymore.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's like complete corrective color.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's, you know, it's baby lights and teasy lights and you know, foilage and balayage, and it's like, you know, root melts and root smudges.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it's everything is custom color now.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just here's a partial foil where I'm gonna put 25 foils in and they're just gonna show up the way they show up.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's not that the expectations are so much higher, which means that everything else has to be elevated.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: And like whether we like it or not, like that's the that's the reality of the industry, is that people, and I say this a lot to clients, is like, you're not competing with like first of all, I know we're not in competition, but like you still are competing with everybody, every other hairstylist, and not just in your zip code, but like globally, because because of social media, they're seeing hairstylists from all over the world, and they expect that kind of experience from their local hairstylist, whether that's reality or not.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, but like you're not just competing with your local salons, you are competing on a global scale, and that can be really intimidating, but it's also another reason why social media is such a powerful tool.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I agree so much.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_03: I know we talked about how working at sexy hair, like they talked about like perception is the reality essentially, but I'm curious about your process working with those other brands.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe it was sexy hair, maybe it was another one.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_03: But how did those like education experiences help you become better at what you do now, like creating really strong brands?
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it was really helpful for me to see what it's like inside of a big corporation and the level of attention to detail that every department had to have for something to get out the door.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: Because you might think that like getting a can of hairspray out the door and on a shelf is like an it's just a can of hairspray, but it takes months and sometimes years, I mean, of trying formulas and fragrances and packaging, and then it's like education and marketing and building and building techniques around it.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: It was like every step of the way and every every touch point being consistent.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think that was for me the biggest aha moment that I try to impart on people is like there was never a gap in the in the chain.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like the links were always connected.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so from the first interaction to the purchase or to the salon, you know, or the or the class or whatever it is that they were participating with, every single thing was on brand.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: It was on message, it had a way to participate somewhere else.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they were constantly trying to keep you connected, and we always used to think like, how can we keep people in love with us?
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: How can we make them fall in love with us?
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then how can we keep them in love?
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it really was that level of detail, and not just at sexy hair, but um another brand that was really good at this was DivaCurl, because they have such a specific um segment of the industry, and the problems and the needs of the curly hair community were so specific that it was really even more important to pay attention to all the little details because women don't fuck around with their curly hair.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like they know exactly what they need, they know what they want, and if they don't get it, like they're probably not coming back to try something else.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: So it was really important for us, and especially people trying to learn how to cut curly hair, like that's an even bigger responsibility because it's it's not it's just not the same.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: And there are so many techniques to make sure that you're treating the hair with respect and you know, cutting it properly.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so it was those kinds of things that I think I brought into, I don't think I know I have, I brought into my business now, which is just that um kind of like continuing to remind people that your social media presence matters, but it doesn't matter on its own.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like if everything else is up, like your social media presence isn't gonna save.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it has to be what's the interaction on Instagram?
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: Plus, where do they go from there?
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: And does it look on brand?
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: Does it feel on brand?
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: Does it sound like you?
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then where do they go from there?
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: And like, what's the experience from start to finish?
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because all of those things in between matter.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like I always use the example of like when I go onto TikTok shop or something, and I will like click a link and it'll take me somewhere and it'll be like this janky ass website, and I'm like, oh no, I'm not, I'm not spending much.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no, no, I don't want that.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I want to know experience, didn't wasn't connected.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: So um, I think that for sure, and I just think the just the care for hairstylists and really seeing like they're really incredible people.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that there's like shitty people in every community, but the hairstylist community is just they're so incredible.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: When I when I used to run education teams, some of these people, it's like the first time they'd ever left their city, they've ever been on a plane to come to trainings, and they were just so excited and so passionate about it, and they just really believe in what they and in taking care of their clients.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, it's like, okay, now we have to take care of you too.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like we have to give, we have to give to ourselves so that we can give to others.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I think they don't do it.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: No, they don't do it, they don't eat lunch, they don't eat breakfast.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully that has changed a little bit um over the years, but but you're right.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, like here we're there's a lot of times where it's like I'm living on iced coffee and I haven't peed in 12 hours.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's yeah, you know, it's not ideal.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: But um, I think that now those those stereotypes are hopefully being, you know, kind of thrown in the thrown in the trash and they're taking better care of themselves.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it's also a testament to women because so many women are in this industry and we are just like naturally kind of caretakers.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I I mean I hate to use that stereotype, but I just think that women are, I think it's expected of us to just like take care of people.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_03: So I think for a lot of women it's natural too.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's kind of like it is kind of more natural, I think.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that's why it becomes a stereotype, which yeah, I I think to a degree, some women are more.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think I'm like it there's a balance to be had there, but yeah, I think too what this goes for any industry, but especially hairstylists, like if you're in the beauty industry, you're trying to make women feel better, like by doing their hair, by doing their facial, by doing whatever it is.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_03: And the best way you can do that is by being the example.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_03: So if you're not taking care of yourself, then you're in a way you're hurting everyone else because you should really take care of yourself to be the example of what the standard is.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um and yeah, that you just have to take care of yourself and not do too much.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um okay, I'm curious about your program called Onlygram.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_03: We talked about this a little bit, but I want to tell the audience about it.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um, what is who what is it?
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_03: Who's it for?
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_03: How do you help hairstylists show up better on the gram?
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so um, like I mentioned earlier, I I've been talking a lot um in my content about the the gap between like investing in branding and being able to turn it around and make it into marketing.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that I encounter a lot with hairstylists is like, I just don't know how to do all the things.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how to use Canva.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm up at 2 a.m.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: like Googling how to create a graphic, or like I don't know how to use Cap Cut.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: So like making these reels is really hard for me.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I was just like, what if we just like took all of those things away?
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: What if we just like scaled everything back and you just had Instagram?
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because you can do 99.9% of the things that you need to create content inside the Instagram app.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it's where the majority of us already are in the hair industry.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: It really is kind of like home base, even though TikTok is like close second.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: But I really wanted to just like take the pressure off of people of like having to learn all the different apps, having to keep up with all of these different things.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and if you're good at that, that's great.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: If you're comfortable creating content, then like that's fantastic.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: This probably isn't for you, it's very foundational.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um I did really like kind of strip it back to like bare bones.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, okay, here's how to make a carousel inside Instagram.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: Here's the kinds of, here's how to create the similar like color palette or use the same fonts.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like you can do all of those things inside Instagram.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to spend all this extra time learning all these other things that like you just don't need right now.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, get good at this.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: Get to a point where you can just make the content.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because until you can make the content, then you're never gonna feel comfortable making the content because everybody feels a little weird.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's a weird thing to do, like put yourself on the internet, it's not natural.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um a lot of us, even though I used to stand on big stages and present in front of hundreds of people, like this is way harder, I think, than doing that.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but eventually you just have to like suck it up and do it.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I always try to remind people that like your followers are a captive audience and they are there.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: They're there, nobody's holding a gun to their head.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: They have followed these people, they want to be there, they've chosen to stick around.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: And if they decide to leave, like then they left.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: Big fucking deal.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but OnlyGram is really my um my gift to hairstyle is I don't know how to do shit.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how to do any of this, but I want to, like, I want to learn how to do it.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: I want to be able to take that first step because I want to build my business.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like a lot of hairstylists have really big goals and dreams, but they're just like, I just don't know how to get there.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, I have um like I have a full branding course and I have other products, but like they all kind of expect you to come in at like a certain level.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so this was just like my opportunity to be like, okay, like we're just gonna start foundation.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna start from step one, which is like, here's how to here's how to center the type on a carousel.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, here's how to create a story slide in Instagram.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like it just was that important to me to like go back to basics.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I I've gotten really great feedback on it.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: And even for people that are kind of like Instagram savvy, they're like, oh, like I never really thought about like I could just do all of this here.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, it's like the biggest eye-opening thing because we so often just see like the super highly edited reels that are beautiful, but I promise you that took them forever, or they're outsourcing the editing on it because nobody just does that.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_03: And we see these carousels that are beautiful and scrapbooking, it's just so funny because I had like I recorded a podcast earlier today, and we were talking about this about how like it can be so unnatural for some people, and that's okay, just do the Instagram version.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_03: Like, just because that's what you see doesn't mean that dumbing it down.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_03: I want to say that like that's not the actual word, it's not like dumb, but like simplifying it, taking a few steps back, yeah, works just as good.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_03: Works just as good.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_03: Like, yeah, you don't always have to believe the content that you see on your for you page, right?
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: And like you weren't gonna, I was like, you weren't gonna doing care in the beginning either.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like you didn't go day one into like these advanced techniques, you had to figure it out, you had to practice, you had to try, and then you failed and you screwed things up, and then you had to try again.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like that's just like how things work when you're learning.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: But I think the problem with like right now and to be like the old lady, like elder millennial, and be like the problem with kids these days is that like is that you're always willing to be bad at something for long enough to become good at it.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that's just like life.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: Life, it means like you have to, in order to learn something, you have to be bad at it first.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I know you're never gonna learn anything if you can't like get through that part first, and so I just like this creating Onlygram was like, okay, we're just gonna be bad at something for a while.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna get, we're gonna figure it out.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna make the most basic ass content that you can make.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: But hey, guess what?
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: As long as you have some good photographic, if you have good video clips of your clients, if you're capturing the right things, which is another thing we talk about, it's like, how can you capture the right kind of content?
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: How can you set yourself up in the salon so that you're not like putting the tripods up every day?
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like get yourself some equipment that you can just leave and you know that the angles are gonna be good, you know the lights are gonna be good.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then it's like put some type over top, just use the same font all the time.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like, don't switch up the font every time you do it.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: That is alone a step in the right direction.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's like there's two parts to it.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_03: One is like you're gonna suck at stuff that you've never done before.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_03: Like, welcome to the club.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome, welcome.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_03: This is how life goes.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_03: And the other part is like setting yourself up for success.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_03: Like, don't expect yourself to go from not posting to posting every single day.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_03: Don't expect yourself to go from posting, like, you know, before and afters only to posting these highly edited reels.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you're not gonna, those are jumps that aren't worth the time and stress to do.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_03: Like, baby steps are good.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_03: Just do like you need to just learn one thing at a time.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_03: And like, yeah, I think it can feel silly.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_03: Like you're you feel like that content's not gonna be good, but it is.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_03: That is good content.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: And you know what?
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's good content because it's it's content, like you're doing it, you're making the choice to just like put it out there.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: And some, I mean, that's I just I just had a call right before talking to you with a client, and she was like, I just I can't get through the caption, like it's just so hard for me.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, just put a word, like just put two words.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I honestly like just hit post.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: I love you, but you're like, she's good, she's a good hairstylist, she makes good content, good on camera.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, your caption can't be the thing holding you back, babe.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: It just can't we're worrying too much about stuff that's everybody's overthinking it, and I under and I get it, like I recognize that it's really hard not to overthink when all you're consuming is hairstylist content.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: So it's another thing.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, can we can we mute some people?
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: Can we like mute some accounts follow?
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: I could probably count on one hand the number of like brand designers or like strategists that I follow because I don't need to do that to myself.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't need to see what people are doing.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: I wish you success.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: And once in a while, maybe I will see what they're up to.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: But like on the day-to-day, I just want to focus on what I'm doing because it's not helpful.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_03: And it's not helpful, it's just not and you end up like wanting to do every trend they do and wanting to copy them like to a degree, even though you may not be like literally copying, but like that's what happens when you follow too many people in your own niche.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and the creative energy that can come from social media is incredible when you expand your niche of who you're following.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I think people niche down who they were following because there was a period of time where they were like, follow and engage with count accounts that like are similar to yours, but that's actually not how the algorithm works at all.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't matter who you follow, they don't care.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: It matters who have all the secrets for the algorithm.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_03: I do have this secret, but like this is a seat, this is a secret.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_03: They don't care, like it's your feed there that Instagram is curating, not the people who follow you's feed.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_03: They are they're doing their own feed curation.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's it, has nothing to do with that.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um, following people that you want to comment on because you want to show up as a comment on their content is a different thing, but like that's a different thing when it comes to the algorithm.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_03: But um, you should follow accounts that are not in your niche and that don't stress you out and that don't make you feel like you're failing.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_03: And there are so many coaches, and there are so many social media managers, and there are so many.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_03: So you really have to have.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, is Mercury in retrograde?
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry guys, I know that episode ended a little abruptly.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_02: We had some technical difficulties with our recording software, but I really wanted to put this episode out still because I feel like it's so valuable.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_02: So, anyways, my apologies and thanks for listening, and I'll see you in a few weeks.