Transcript

Bating · Kinkyboys Podcast

0:02
Buck: Hey, so this was quite interesting because after the interview, I
0:08
actually got invited to come along to, on the Beta bro, uh, events.
0:13
And I have to say it was different from anything I felt before.
0:16
It was really nice to be in a space that positive, that, uh,
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affirming it was very chill, very artistic friendly, like low music.
0:26
Um, there was even a big.
0:28
Cuddle pile.
0:29
Very different from the normal venues I get in the fetish world.
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Um, yeah, and it actually put up a lot of feelings in me and my friend who
0:40
went about masculinity, about being in a positive nurturing environment.
0:45
It was really cool.
0:47
Now before we begin, I of course have to thank our daddy's favorite level patrons.
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So that's Rugger time to tinker.
0:56
Frank Anelle Adam, NYC, Southern Suiter Ner Banjo, Stewie,
1:04
Brian Sea and Harry Hypnotist.
1:07
Just know you are daddy's favorites, and with that acknowledged onto our interview.
1:21
Hello and welcome again to the Kinky Boys Podcast.
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And today we have a guest with us.
1:27
We have Nick Wolf, and he is coming to talk to us about
1:31
Bating and his baiting parties.
1:33
Welcome, Nick.
1:35
Nick: Hi, how's it going, buck?
1:37
Buck: Very good, thanks.
1:38
Very good.
1:39
Very glad to be out of January.
1:40
How, and how about yourself?
1:42
Why don't you start off with telling the audience who you are.
1:46
Nick: Hi, my name is Nick Wolf and I run the Bating bro parties and community.
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We are an edging and communal masturbation group based in East London,
1:58
and we've been doing it since 2003.
2:03
Buck: Wow, so relatively recent.
2:07
Nick: Yes, we are a post pandemic sort of experience and we have
2:14
been technically a community for a much longer period of time.
2:18
It's just that.
2:20
We have decided to physically become an entity over a lot of desires
2:25
to, to find connection and touch.
2:28
But yeah, the backstory actually goes quite a long way.
2:30
Maybe up to seven to eight years ago, I would say a lot
2:34
of people, yeah, so there's a,
2:38
there's a bit of a online scene I think that maybe people don't
2:42
discuss much about with baiting.
2:45
And I would say a lot of it came during the invention of the webcam in a way.
2:49
So a lot of millennia bros who are out there, or maybe not millennia bros.
2:53
To be fair, like the webcam's been around for quite a few generations now.
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And I remember being very drawn to the idea of like somewhat cheating
3:04
on my boyfriend using a webcam
3:06
Buck: Okay.
3:07
Nick: back in the day.
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And didn't realize that sort of video and camming.
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A sense of exhibitionism was a form of kink or a certain form of, I would say,
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a way of connection as well between someone who's not physically with you.
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And some really great bonds can be formed through the online bait space.
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And it won't go into crazy detail about what that scene looks like and so forth.
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But what we have built from 2003 is actually built upon a lot of years of.
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The culture that supports the brotherhood and the sharing and the encouragement
3:48
that you get in the bait, online Bating space, which is super, super refreshing
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compared to a lot of queer spaces or gay spaces, male only spaces in the
3:57
mainstream sort of physical culture.
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And that's what really drawn me into becoming, identifying myself as a
4:04
baiter or a can baiter at one point.
4:07
Buck: Okay.
4:07
That's interesting.
4:08
So a lot of people think of masturbation, like baiting as a very solo activity.
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It's what you do when you can't get a part or don't have a
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partner to hand, as it were.
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And it's but you talk about it in the sense of a much more communal activity.
4:23
So is it just you get together and you masturbate together?
4:28
Nick: I am gonna put a couple layers to this.
4:30
You know when people ask me like, oh.
4:33
What do you guys do together?
4:34
This party?
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So Bating bro, the story is this Bating bro is a homage to the
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jerk off party formats that has been around since the eighties.
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So if were aware of the New York Jacks and if you other parties that came as
4:49
part of the response of the HIV epidemic, it was seen as a safer way to play.
4:59
However, I think the rules and the openness of, homosexual life and
5:04
different things that kind of allowed us to reach a certain saturation point
5:07
around sex that I feel the resurgence of Jerk Off Club or the intimacy of
5:15
a Jerk Off Club, or the experience of two guys having, hands-only fun.
5:20
Is actually quite tantric.
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And I think a lot of people don't realize that the limitations of
5:26
actually using, specifically around the Jerk Off Club rules, which we pay
5:29
a lot of homage to and still do, is that there's no lips below the hips
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and everything else is allowed, right?
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So technically what we are doing is masturbating together, but we're also
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interacting and using the entire body.
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And when I say this, we're talking about we're incorporating things such as.
5:49
Musk, nipple play, foot play various types of gooning.
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We won't get into gooning yet.
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That's quite advanced.
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Aspects of verbal encouragement.
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Aspects of ball plays, stretching.
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So because it's quite hands based, it's basically anything you can imagine to do
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with your hands, but then also everything you can imagine doing with interlocking
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body parts in a way that isn't con conventional inside of somebody way.
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And I would say it's a mixture of like sexual yoga, in terms of the
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creativity is endless because if you're really into feet, you could be.
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Sucking someone's toes and having your toes being sucked,
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or your pits being, caressed.
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So I would say it's not traditionally associated to those things, but our
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party extends that playbook into other types of physical body fetishes as well.
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Buck: Okay.
6:43
I can see how that'd interact and it does sound quite essential.
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As you describe it, and obviously like in wider gay culture, we tend to have
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a very big focus on penetrative sex.
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Mostly to, I feel, to our detriment, especially because when you actually look
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at the statistical numbers, the amount of times people, like gay men especially
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have penetrative sex is actually.
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Relatively small compared to what most people think.
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Most people are sides, much more than like people would expect, but
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because of like the way media and porn works, there's this heavy emphasis on
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penetration and to get see something that focuses on almost explicitly,
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almost like as you said, banning it.
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No lips below the hips, so you can only use your hands.
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Only explore bodies.
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Actually opens up a lot more avenues.
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Nick: We're, we've been told off many times that this was never gonna work.
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So when I started this party, we had a lot of hate.
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And then when I say we, as in the Bating community gets it right, we
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all get it because the joy of just not having the pressure to perform
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is of one things that we appreciate.
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But then also we found out over time, we were bringing people
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from so many different types of.
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Challenges about their sexual identity, and it really was the most interesting
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melting point and cross-cultural meetup for a community in a way.
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Because if you were going to a traditional place where there were tops
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and there were bottoms, and there's doms and there's subs, in a way, they
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form their own identities and people don't really interact because there's
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a particular positioning that has been coded and given as a social cue.
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But when you remove all of that, it's almost sense of like democratizing
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of how we interact with each other.
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So yes, outside of this particular party, you may be a dom or you might be
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a bottom and you're able let up whatever.
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But within you're inside Bating Pro at this experience, we are all just sharing
8:51
dick or sharing penis together and.
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It could either be sharing from a physical touch perspective or just
8:58
watching you enjoying it and just being quite acknowledging your presence.
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And I feel like that's a lot to do with acceptance and body acceptance,
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that sometimes we're expected to do much more, and maybe we don't need
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to, to feel good about ourselves.
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Buck: Yeah, that, people put a lot of pressure on themselves over this.
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It's so many people have basically grown a bit of a complex around the
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fact that they feel they need to perform more than just like hand stuff.
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Like anything.
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Again, going back to penetration, sucking, there's this act where this
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element where you need to perform.
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They can become quite intense, especially with a lot of people in
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public spaces that gets magnified.
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So to have an event, which would be more, I guess you would say, chill,
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I can really see the appeal of that.
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Nick: I, there's a few, there's a few scenes or the different
9:51
types of archetypes that we find out end up in our space.
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One of the biggest archetypes are people who are looking for sober spaces.
10:00
Buck: Right.
10:02
Nick: Huge.
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Like when we say Bating spaces, people actually mean they wanna meet people
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who are not completely fucked on
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Buck: Oh yeah.
10:11
Yeah.
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Nick: And there is no equivalent of a sexy space that isn't potentially.
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Full of people who are trying to be as extreme as possible, right?
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And we all know that there's problems with people who are into more harder,
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darker, more extreme types of kinks.
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And so we're on the other side of the fence we're light and chill and loose
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and easy, and because of that, a lot of people have come from either a very kind
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of intense, hardcore space and being like.
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Nick, I've just, I just want some romance in my life.
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Like mate, like I just want a bit of like gentle touching, I just
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want something quite different.
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And so you've got people who've come from, I've done everything under the sun and
11:00
they're like, we're gonna try Bating bro for a second, just to see what it's like.
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And sometimes they report back and saying, wow, I re, I forget how
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amazing it is to snog for hours.
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Buck: Yeah.
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Nick: And just look into someone eyes and just have that like deep intimacy.
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So that's one group sober, like sober leaning or something
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that's something less hardcore.
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But two, also people who are like from a very like a DHD
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super, like neuro divergent.
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Because there is just so much, like it's a lot easier to just focus on one thing.
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If you just like stroking dick.
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Or just wanna sniff pits or just eat someone's toes.
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You can just do that without guilt.
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There is no pressure to do anything beyond that one thing you really wanna do.
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So for those who are specifically into one particular fetish, like specifically
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body fetish, they, it's like a dream.
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Like for foot lovers, it's a dream because we actually have a
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no shoe area called the tug rug.
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Where everybody is as shoeless and everyone's foot is on each other.
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And rarely do you see sex spaces are clean enough or designed in
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a way that will allow you to walk around, from a health and safety
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perspective without your shoes, right?
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Or even be able to lie down, in this massive sort of area
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that we have designed for.
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So we draw like this.
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The second type is we draw people who really like, into like really focused
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types of king, a DHD, neurodivergence people who feel like maybe there's too
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much things to look at or to do, but we can like attention to something.
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And then the third time, the third one I feel we don't talk enough about, and
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it's quite controversial with a lot of, a lot of the media exposing a lot of
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protection of si sexual abuse victims.
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We get a lot of people who.
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Have experienced sexual abuse
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and it's shocking because the amount of people who have come out to me or to
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have spoken to me about it about their experiences and how they really feel
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unsafe in spaces that are incredibly aggressive and that it's really amazing
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to have boundaries because maybe they're just feeling very tender.
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They're feeling very unsure about how to.
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Navigate these spaces, either as like someone who's newly single or someone
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who's like very new to coming out.
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So we have these extreme polarities of people who are coming from this.
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I've done everything under the sun.
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I just wanna snog to, I really want to take my time to feel respected and safe
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in the same space, and we somehow coincide and co and live together very peacefully.
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Buck: Yeah, from what you said, it's a very slower paced, more
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relaxed environment that sounds very nurturing and obviously with
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the sort of rules around the space.
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I can see why that would be a much safer environment for people who have had
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very bad sexual experiences in the past.
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And that could be a very healing place.
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And yeah, I also find it very interesting 'cause I'm a DH ADHD and.
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A lot of people don't talk about how a DHD mindset like affects sex.
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Like the fact that you are distracted so easily does impact sex.
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Like a lot of people with A DHD have erectile issues because they can't
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keep the concentration long enough.
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Like a scene, like the mood can switch because your brain just turns on a dime.
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So having a space that is like very set up and welcoming to
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A DHD people, I find amazing.
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Nick: Thank you.
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I feel like I've seen people who have thrived.
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With the fact that they were so focused with one thing and they were
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so happy that they weren't able to be distracted by anybody, just to
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do the one thing, the whole thing.
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I'm so happy I stroked 35 dicks, and no expectation to do anything beyond that.
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And people were super just chill and they were so happy.
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They're like, you've made me, in my flow and sex has a flow to it.
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Like we, we forget that when we share.
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Space with the people.
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Sometimes you just have to be a little bit self-centered and
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say, this is what I want to do.
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I'm not here to please, I'm not here to please you.
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I'm not to please the neighbor.
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I just want to get off doing just the one thing.
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And so maybe your experience with with being like a DHD might inform maybe
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how other sex parties are like as well.
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Buck: Yeah, it's, that is interesting.
15:31
So I wanna go to one of these now.
15:34
Nick: You have to.
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I don't, are you into any particular body fetishes or,
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Buck: Musk is a big one for me, so
15:42
Nick: okay.
15:42
This is your place.
15:43
This is absolutely your place.
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Because we've pushed.
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Like we've also done a lot of written work, within the Bating
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sex sort of series, and we call it Bating sex as a playful word
15:56
of the word, better sex as well.
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And because better sex fundamentally is actually quite simple.
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If you want better sex, you have to know the basics.
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The basics is touch and listening and receiving and giving.
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And it doesn't necessarily mean you have to put that much.
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And I can imagine people were like, I'm just trying to get the pins
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and the stripes of every single kink that's possible in the grinder
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tag or within the recon tag, and.
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And then after they're done with all those things, the question is have
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you found connection and depth in those interactions that you've done?
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Are you doing it just to tick the box or are you actually
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doing it out of true pleasure?
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And so the way we tell people when they come to our space is because the sta
16:45
like the bar is so low in terms of,
16:49
we call it a jack off event, like a bait event.
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But it actually is like an intimacy and exploration event.
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But we don't say that, because it's implied.
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Because it's implied.
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If you generally want to do everything el, if you wanna just, suck and fuck and
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do all the things like go anywhere you want, you can do that to your neighbor.
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You can do it on the park, you can do the sauna.
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But if you wanna come to a place where.
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You may find and learn something completely unexpected and new.
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Come to Bating, bro.
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That's what I tell people.
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And we also, besides the written stuff, because we love just like educating
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and writing stuff and making it playful and fun, like everything should be fun.
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We value friendship above everything else.
17:36
And the same thing with all King communities, right?
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Like I think that's the thread that we have When we met at recon,
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I'm sure we were all trying, our tribe, we're trying to find.
17:44
People who understand are quirks and are different frequencies.
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And I think baiting because it's not been considered a kink.
17:54
And sometimes it isn't.
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Depending on what and how you do.
17:59
The way we operate is like a kink community, right?
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We operate in the same Hey, this is this person, this is that person.
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Hey, you should hang out together.
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Maybe we should have go out for drinks.
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See you next month.
18:10
It has like community is at its core, but also friendship is, its like the
18:17
ultimate goal is if you're feeling lonely, if you don't know who to talk
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to, and if you're too bored, surfing and going through Grinder, being
18:26
heartbroken or feeling very disappointed in it, just come out for a jerk off.
18:30
Just come out for a bait, man.
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It's just a bait.
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Buck: Yeah.
18:34
Nick: You're just stroking your dick.
18:35
You're not gonna get married to someone.
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And it's not even as much expectations as you're just gonna
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get fucked, or you have to do these.
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It's such a softer entry point for someone to, if they want to, absolutely.
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Go for a date afterwards, meet them afterwards, meet whoever you want
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afterwards, because we've almost lost a sense of anticipation in
18:58
a lot of the things that we do in the modern life that we're in.
19:01
Porn is accessible 24 7.
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Sex is easily on tap on all the apps.
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We're missing kind of feeling our way through without too many labels as well.
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That's why.
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Buck: Yeah, the, that it ties into a thread of a thought I've been having a
19:16
lot lately, and it actually ties into of all things bridgeton, because people
19:23
have been, the word that keeps coming up when discussing Bridgeton is yearning.
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Like the whole thing about bridgeton is people can't just get straight to the
19:32
sex or can't get straight to the romance.
19:34
It has to build, and they're in this incredibly constrictive society with
19:38
social norms, which means like it's all ative glances and touches of the
19:43
hand, and that builds anticipation and a pressure and eroticism, and I can
19:49
see this happening again with Bating rose, where it's because you can't do.
19:54
And think beyond using your hands and your dick, that forces you to like
19:59
really get involved and like linger on the things most people pass over.
20:03
Like you said, snogging, these are things which are considered for play a lot of
20:07
the time and hit making them the central event means they just build and build.
20:12
And I can see that, how that works.
20:15
Nick: It is also so it's so beautiful that you're interpreting it as a way, a sense
20:20
of yearning for connection, intimacy.
20:23
And I think what's really completely completely underrated is the
20:29
fact sometimes you do need like.
20:34
Closeness but not sex, and when I say closeness, sometimes it's like
20:39
with someone you know, someone you don't know at all, but the
20:44
comfortable sense that you're safe.
20:47
And so there was someone who wrote like a really long piece around the experience
20:52
on the tug rug, which is something.
20:53
That I think is quite a magical experience to, to see and also to participate is
20:59
essentially it's this one big, like on the floor mattress that's been connected by
21:04
like maybe 15 single beds and it's covered in a rug, and everyone's somehow connected
21:12
and woven together, like tapestry and we're all just leaning on each other.
21:17
We're all just holding each other.
21:19
We're all just baiting.
21:20
We're snogging.
21:21
We're connecting.
21:22
We're sharing space with people.
21:23
And at a particular time of the event, at five o'clock, basically
21:28
towards the end, we have a come train, which is, it's something I borrowed
21:33
from the online culture when we're baiting together on Zoom calls is
21:37
like everyone basically gets to come one at a time, and gets to be shown.
21:41
And we have people who are essentially.
21:45
It's like fireworks.
21:46
People just, exploding one at a time in this rug, and you can really feel
21:51
the energetic connection of the room because there is just so much positivity
21:55
and encouragement and so much cheering.
21:57
Sometimes when you go to a sex party, your dick is too much too deep into someone's
22:01
mouth or someone's hole or something like that you never see the right.
22:06
But with vPro, you get to really see every freaking squirt.
22:12
Every single explosion is out there and shared because when you
22:17
explode, it's all over everybody.
22:20
And so it's almost like champagne, fireworks moment at five o'clock.
22:23
And it's quite a bonding ritual when I feel a lot of times humans really
22:28
yearn for a sense of ritual, a sense of, in a way, a sense of some sort of
22:36
limitation, but also a sense of there is progression of how you become.
22:39
More intimate or more engaged or more bonded with somebody because you're
22:44
trusting okay, we're just gonna go there.
22:46
Let's go together.
22:48
And so I think there's this theater.
22:51
As well.
22:51
I always, I feel like sex is theater.
22:53
When you're in a space, collectively, we're forming the performance, we
22:56
are the performance together, we are one piece and we're moving together.
23:00
So that's me as an artist because that's my background,
23:03
graphic design and art and music.
23:05
So I make sure that all those elements come together at the party.
23:09
Buck: That's pretty cool and I can really see it like you talked about,
23:14
like people have this almost hunger for touch and I find that a very.
23:21
Human thing in the sense that we are communal animals.
23:25
Like we are very communal.
23:27
And if you look at any other Simeon they are very much about mutual
23:31
grooming, mutual hug, mutual touch.
23:33
That's how you build social cohesion.
23:36
But we have a layer on our society that kind of forbids that, especially with
23:41
men now, like I've always felt very lucky as a gay man in the sense that.
23:47
I have had friendships where I can be very tactile, I can hug, kiss, I can just be
23:54
close with other people without worrying.
23:57
And I see how touch starved a lot of the straight men I know are, and this
24:03
feels like a big extension of that, where it creates a space where you can
24:06
just have that sort of animalistic, instinctual, physical bonding exercise.
24:15
Nick: absolutely.
24:16
I a lot of, we encourage.
24:18
We encourage like quite extreme spectrums that are usually not in the same
24:22
space as well in terms of sexuality.
24:24
We have straight guys who join.
24:27
There are trans men who join
24:32
you.
24:32
Rarely would you meet those would never usually be in the same space, if not
24:37
impossible be in the same sex space.
24:39
One is not mad enough.
24:41
A mother is too straight,
24:42
Buck: Yeah.
24:44
Nick: What's beautiful about the baiting community, and this is something that
24:47
always goes back to the online world, is there are DL guys, there are people
24:52
who online and just masturbating.
24:54
When the wife's outta the house or their girlfriend's away, or blah, blah, blah.
24:59
But there's also guys who actually are comfortable with their sexuality,
25:03
who doesn't, don't really need to be defined by what they are.
25:07
And just be like, I kind of wanna jerk off.
25:10
Maybe we, they have a particular teenage memory at school when they were jerking
25:13
off with their buddies that was actually really carefree and fun and beautiful.
25:18
But they're like, I don't want the, I don't wanna be in a gay club.
25:21
I just want to be like with my in a way with my bros not saying that, that's.
25:26
Yeah, we're pushing for dl, for the DL culture to exist.
25:30
We're saying that, but we can all exist together, right?
25:33
We can all exist together.
25:34
Your positive memories with your bros can also be with your queer bros who
25:37
also are looking for intimacy, and we're all just sharing the space.
25:41
And so I think there is a lot of beautiful overlaps around people
25:46
who are not expected to share their sexuality in an open way.
25:51
Especially with trans men, I feel.
25:54
There was one trans man who joined us last month and he had a great time.
25:59
He says, I loved, like he says, I'll tell you a funny story.
26:04
He says he transitioned and he says, at first I was a lesbian, but as I told
26:09
more testosterone, I became a gay man.
26:12
I became more bi, and it says there's something about testosterone that
26:16
really longs for male to male validation and affirmation, like some sort of.
26:21
Animist animalistic ritual, primal sort of recognition.
26:26
And I found that really beautiful.
26:28
I said, you're very much welcome in this community because we are so glad
26:34
to have all types of affirmations here.
26:37
And he came and he didn't come.
26:40
Maybe he did, I'm not sure, but he made quite a few guys come and it was like
26:46
no expectations for him to have a penis.
26:48
This is a big deal.
26:50
And also no predatorial sides of things, feeling like he was mocked
26:54
or taunted to be a certain way.
26:57
So yeah, I feel like there's a container that, that maybe collectively in,
27:00
in other king spaces that can start looking into that level of ability,
27:04
like openness that we can share.
27:07
Just Bating bro is just one of those spaces that things
27:09
just happen at the moment.
27:11
Buck: Yeah, that sounds beautiful.
27:13
Like I know for trans guys, like especially with a space that addresses
27:18
itself as a male space, there's always the question of, will I be accepted here?
27:22
So to hear like trans men are just accepted is brilliant.
27:24
And it's like that lack of, like you said, predatory.
27:29
I know trans men have a big problem, like chasers fetishizing them.
27:33
But it sounds like here, like they are just met as.
27:37
People, meeting people
27:41
in a very, again, that very human connected way.
27:45
Nick: We're humanizing this very cold sex culture that we're.
27:52
And I tell people, leading up to the event, we have a telegram group
27:55
chat where we encourage people to show faces and that's a big deal.
27:59
I said, I do actually don't wanna see your dick because I will see
28:03
it for five hours at the party.
28:05
So you don't need to expose it like in the group chat.
28:09
And for me, smiles and faces, and I know there's a few demisexual,
28:13
those people were really turned on by being, intellectually stimulated.
28:16
Like we love Bating row because I love.
28:19
To know somebody.
28:20
I love to be able to have a conversation with someone beforehand.
28:23
I'd like to know what they're about and what their interests are, and so
28:27
it helps those types who also feel a sense of trust where you can humanize,
28:33
see someone's face and actually know sometimes a little bit of a life
28:37
story, before you enter the space.
28:39
And so we try to put that in the beginning bit of the experience.
28:43
It feels different from other sex parties.
28:45
Like we, we don't encourage everybody to expose, like when I say expose, it's
28:49
also like a scene terminology to expose us to be, expose your penis, right?
28:55
We rather you expose your face, which is probably the most vulnerable thing you
28:58
can do than exposing your private parts.
29:01
Because sometimes when I speak to people about like sex culture,
29:05
they were, they're like, what am I gonna do if I can't suck Dick?
29:07
I'm like you can kiss somebody, yeah.
29:11
Or but that's so intimate.
29:12
Someone says that, that's so intimate.
29:14
I'm like, yes.
29:14
You're obviously happy to be gang banged by 50 guys.
29:18
By looking to someone's eyes and kissing somebody is, and maybe really
29:21
scary for these, for some people.
29:23
And it's very telling to the nature of our society at the moment
29:28
where, going on X and having an OnlyFans account is incredibly.
29:33
Like not vulnerable, but to maybe open up and show your story and
29:39
like share space without actually having sex is super scary for people.
29:43
Buck: Yeah, I intimate intimacy.
29:45
Intimacy can mean so many different things to different people, and what is very
29:50
easy for some people to do is a lot of.
29:53
Quite difficult for other people.
29:56
I know talking to people in recovery, like you talk, talked about sober people.
30:00
I know people in recovery, a lot of the times they use drugs to
30:04
artificially simulate intimacy or that sense of connection with people.
30:09
So to have a, and again, like some people find fisting incredibly intimate.
30:16
I know I have other people find it just very.
30:20
Physical only, and so many people can have so many different interpretations of the
30:26
same act, and I find that fascinating.
30:30
Nick: A fisting and Bating's are cousins.
30:32
I always say when I meet a fister, we're cousins, right?
30:36
Because we love Han,
30:40
we love Hans, and sometimes we, we actually do both inside someone's hole.
30:43
Like you could masturbate and fist someone at the same time, which I
30:47
said that's where the two worlds.
30:49
Buck: Yeah.
30:52
Nick: I said that's where, that's exactly where.
30:53
And we have, on top of baiting as a, this sort of modal motor play,
30:58
right motor play in connection.
31:00
A lot of people in the community are very open to various types of kinks.
31:05
So they'll end up just like going together to a piss party or a fisting event,
31:11
and we'll have this sort of construct of a big bro, little bro sort of.
31:16
Mentorship dynamic that is part of bait culture, not so much
31:21
the do sun thing, which is more traditional in general playing.
31:26
A lot of it's because it's about brotherhood.
31:28
It's all about being bros being equal or being someone who can learn from.
31:32
And because we have mostly people in their thirties and forties
31:36
up to their fifties, so it's not like a, it's not a young crowd.
31:39
Like we, we have mostly people that are.
31:44
In a way looking to go deeper and that's what makes it special is not
31:53
saying that young people won't enjoy it.
31:55
I think I always tell people you'll value it a lot more if you tried everything,
32:00
because if you are still super new, like I always say, there's certain
32:05
types of people who will come back and those who will just do it for novelty.
32:08
The ones who will do it for novelty are like, I'm single, I'm
32:11
young, I'm interested in this.
32:13
I'm just trying to find my boyfriend, and I'm just gonna
32:15
disappear after I find something.
32:17
Or I'm gonna take the tick list of all the kinks and then I'm
32:20
just gonna move on to something.
32:22
And you, I'm sure same with other kink communities where there's a lot of
32:25
people passing through and not really just in the practice, of connection.
32:30
But the ones who really do stick around are those who are.
32:35
Either in an open relationship, realizing that at the end we're all friends.
32:41
We're all companions at the end of the day, you want to call me boyfriend,
32:45
husband, all the different labels in the world, sub dom, we're all baseline.
32:50
We need to be great companions and we need to have multi-level
32:55
conversations, multi-dimensional.
32:57
Enriching conversations and it's not something that is transactional.
33:02
If you really want to sustain a community, you need to be able to go
33:06
to the dark side, the light side, the shame side, the guilt side, the giving
33:11
up these low sense of self-worth to feeling confident about yourself.
33:16
Again, you have to go through the whole cycle, for you to really come
33:20
back or for you to realize that this community has an ability to hold you.
33:26
In those types of energies too.
33:29
And so I, I find it, it's the long game.
33:33
I always tell people, if you wanna get into any community, you need to show up.
33:40
And the days you don't feel great show up anyway because.
33:44
You will find out.
33:44
Like some people were like, Nick, I really didn't feel like coming out
33:48
today, but I just wanted to be around people and it just turned out that I
33:51
feel great afterwards because I met some really cool people and I said, if
33:56
you just made a friend today, that's already worth your time coming out.
33:59
You don't even need to get off.
34:00
So we're very big on edging, as a term.
34:04
I don't talk enough about edging yet because edging is a philosophy and I'm
34:09
sure this from every kink, basically.
34:12
The longer you can hold your kind of typical orgasm because you can
34:15
have, orgasm or ejaculation, that separation needs to be very clear.
34:19
An orgasm can be a physical, energetic sort of experience that doesn't have
34:24
anything to do with ejaculation.
34:27
And if you're able to learn the mechanics of your body, your sexual
34:33
intelligence is, starts to adapt to understanding these different sort
34:37
of like sensations and nuances.
34:39
The end goal isn't really to ejaculate.
34:41
Yes, it's great to come, right?
34:43
It's great to, to explode where, but it's also great to hold the energy and
34:49
feel like that's not the only thing that's driving my existence, right?
34:53
Or that's not driving my ability to learn and connect with somebody.
34:57
And so when you take edging as a.
35:03
Philosophy, navigating the space and life as a whole, which is
35:08
something we bring to the event.
35:09
And we then remove all the constructs of heteronormative penetration out.
35:14
You're left with like sometimes no tools and the new tools
35:20
Buck: Yeah, you have to adapt.
35:22
Nick: you have to adapt and it's philosophical because it's also political.
35:26
Like with everything sex, like sex is political, right?
35:29
Who we have sex with, how you do it, how frequent you do it,
35:32
the shame involved and so forth.
35:34
And I think that there is a lot of like empowerment that can happen
35:40
when you realize that your body
35:46
has all the answers.
35:47
Like your body has all the answers.
35:49
Like you don't need to be in the service of other people's
35:52
bodies to be able to find.
35:54
Your depth and your authenticity.
35:56
And I think that's something that baiting has taught me
35:59
is I'm the fucking bait fuel.
36:00
Sorry, I don't like swearing, but I am.
36:03
But I am like, when I think cam baiting was so liberating as someone
36:08
who is, in a western world where everything is fetishized if you're
36:13
looking different, but also if you don't meet a particular standard of
36:17
body type or skin color or shape.
36:21
And I found that cam baiting is a entry point.
36:24
'cause you are actually the porn, right?
36:28
You're actually filming and broadcasting yourself outside.
36:32
You basically start seeing yourself as the thing that drives your sexual energy.
36:37
And also with people interacting with you.
36:40
And I feel like that's something I would tell people, like if
36:42
you're very new to baiting or understanding how that culture works.
36:46
Put a good camera and some good lighting and just feel sexy about stroking your
36:51
dick in front of a camera and a mirror.
36:54
And you'd be surprised how sexy it is to watch someone having a
36:58
good time with their own body.
37:00
Buck: Yeah.
37:00
So how did you find, how did you come across and find can baiting?
37:08
Nick: camping is a secret activity.
37:14
Originally because I was in a monogamous relationship,
37:20
still in the same relationship.
37:22
It's amazing how we've evolved and I felt, I really didn't feel very confident
37:28
with myself at that point because we got together at a very young age.
37:33
I was in my early twenties and I was very insecure about
37:40
the gay scene.
37:41
And this is also the reason why, I created my own scene, is because I didn't feel
37:45
the representation or acceptance in a way around the culture, the people around me.
37:52
And it was my escapism for a long time.
37:55
I think I might have started camming maybe in the very beginning of
37:59
my 18 year relationship, right?
38:02
So 18 years ago, I was just going on random chat roulettes, as you do.
38:10
And I've made some pretty cool friends have to say like, when you go there
38:14
enough times, when you go there enough times with the filter on,
38:18
Buck: Yeah.
38:19
Nick: It's like the online pub, if you go there at a particular time every morning.
38:22
So it's usually after wake up.
38:24
I know it's not good habit.
38:25
I do not encourage everybody to go straight into, it's like
38:29
going straight to, first pint of booze in a way, like dopamine.
38:33
But this was before social media, I would straight onto the cam before going to
38:37
work, right straight onto the cam and just in a way switching different scenes
38:44
and different people who were coming on just like chat roulette sort of dynamic.
38:48
And what was really amazing was because I was, just showing just my neck down
38:52
and not revealing my face, it was really fun to role play different things than
38:56
what people expected me to be and how I was just, creating new scenes with
39:00
different partners that were arriving.
39:03
So that built a huge amount of confidence in terms of, oh,
39:07
you mean people are into this?
39:08
And people were like, love that mode.
39:10
Or I can be this.
39:12
And I think Cam was great until I started to doubt whether or not this was all in my
39:18
head and whether I was able to embody it.
39:21
Buck: Yeah.
39:23
Nick: That was a transition when I started to ask, what if I. Transition in
39:28
a different way into the physical world, will I still be able to feel as empowered?
39:36
And that took a while.
39:37
That took almost 10 years, if not 15.
39:39
Yeah, almost 10 years after that.
39:41
10 took, 15 years after that.
39:44
Was I able to, over time, very gradually.
39:48
That's why they say.
39:49
This whole baiting camming sort of experience for me was
39:52
very much a late boom boomer.
39:55
It was nothing that came suddenly.
39:57
It was something that I had to have friends.
40:00
I had to build an online friend community with people who I have connected
40:05
with and say, Hey, let's hang out.
40:06
Let's make let's meet up, let's do this together.
40:08
Let's bait together.
40:09
And it took like a long time and I think.
40:14
If you ask everybody about their be the Bating journey that they're in, I'm
40:18
sure you'll hear a very similar story.
40:20
We're the minority groups within a lot of scenes in itself, and so we needed
40:26
a lot of encouragement from each other.
40:29
That's the story.
40:31
Buck: that's pretty cool.
40:32
So you said this started after the pandemic, like the actual bait parties.
40:36
Was that sort of driven by what happened in the pandemic?
40:40
'cause we had a lot of physical isolation, a lot of social distancing.
40:44
Was this sort of a reaction to that?
40:48
Nick: So I went through a lot.
40:52
During the pandemic I also lost my mother as well, so I think.
40:57
A lot of big changes happens when there's grief when there is time for reflection.
41:06
And, 2020 was just the perfect year for all of us to sit down and
41:11
ask what exactly were we doing?
41:15
What is the meaning?
41:16
Life in many sense, because you've lost all the ability to physically
41:20
do things that you used to.
41:22
I thought it was a golden time for reinvention, so that was a time.
41:27
I also asked for an open, I don't like the word asking, negotiated
41:32
for an open relationship and losing someone you love, you start to
41:38
go, I don't really wanna regret
41:40
Buck: Yeah.
41:41
Nick: things that they wanted to do or they couldn't do.
41:45
And so zoom bait culture.
41:50
Was such a big positive force in my life and the day that I realized you can
41:56
go on to Reddit and find the different channels to actually log into it.
42:01
Group, masturbation meetings.
42:03
I started hosting these rooms on Zoom and it became quite a
42:09
big following from me, just.
42:11
Coaching and talking and being verbal and encouraging people, and you'd get
42:15
messages saying, you're doing God's work.
42:17
I'm not joking, like I'm coaching people.
42:19
Like you're doing God's work.
42:20
You're, this amazing, love your room.
42:24
All these things.
42:25
And I was like, professionally, this is what I do.
42:27
I facilitate a lot of conversations and workshops.
42:30
I'm a designer as well, so I do it naturally.
42:33
And so when it started bringing my superpower of just connecting
42:36
people together in a digital space.
42:39
I said, how fun would it be to do it in person and also to challenge myself,
42:45
I'm also scared, like I'm so scared.
42:47
I'm so vulnerable to go out, physically meet people then, and am I going
42:52
to be able to get my dick card?
42:54
Am I gonna be like super intimidated by people who are like, bigger than
42:57
me or whatever, all these like anxiety came through with me and I remember
43:02
walking into my first Jack off club in London, which is a separate one.
43:07
And I loved it.
43:08
It was so beautiful.
43:10
I was like, this is such a beautiful dimension to the same thing.
43:13
But also realizing that half of the values and systems that I felt
43:21
made the online bait culture really beautiful was also not in the Jack
43:25
Off Club structure that I was in.
43:27
I really miss that, messaging.
43:31
Pen pal, like structure that you have people online, and as someone who grew
43:36
up writing letters to friends and having this beautiful, intimate way of sharing
43:40
stories, I felt like I, if I couldn't just bring the best of both worlds,
43:45
that would make Bating bro, which by the way, was a, it was a name I just
43:49
picked up because the, there's a person who said, Hey, do you wanna run like
43:54
an event like this month or next month?
43:55
And I was going, I guess I'd rather do it sooner than later
43:58
because I'll just basically not do it if I don't do it quickly.
44:02
And at that point we had the Bromance Club as an online thing.
44:06
As an online name, but I was thinking, oh, I don't know if I like that.
44:09
Maybe just, let's just go with Beder, bro.
44:11
Which is like the first thing that was on the tin.
44:13
And Beder bro just became its own life force.
44:18
It just, it didn't know where it was at first, and it really started off
44:22
very it was clear that it wanted to bring the best of both worlds, but it
44:28
also didn't understand what the best looked like in the physical space.
44:33
And so I was also doing a lot of research and a lot of going to parties, all
44:38
the, kink events, recon events, just understanding what is the best in the
44:42
physical kink spaces that I can bring in.
44:45
And also about the other kink cultures that really nurture and look after
44:49
each other, which is beautiful.
44:51
Like how do they form bonds?
44:52
How do they create kink families and nuclear families between
44:56
different types of roles?
44:58
And so I did a lot of research.
44:59
I spoke to a lot of people who traveled to San Francisco to meet a lot of CAM
45:02
people that I've baed with for years, connected with older daddies, younger
45:08
guys, did all these connecting the dots.
45:11
And when we came together and with all these influences of people coming to
45:16
our parties from all these different places we realized that, you know
45:20
what, we did something very unique that a lot of US clubs used to do.
45:24
We did it.
45:26
On a very chill Sunday for five hours, which is something
45:30
that the US format does not do.
45:32
They do it for two hours during lunch break or maybe two hours on a weekend.
45:36
But that's New York for
45:37
Buck: Yeah.
45:38
Nick: But Sunday is such a beautiful and precious thing for uk, for
45:42
Londoners and for people in the uk.
45:44
It has, I think it's, that's the beauty of it.
45:47
If it wasn't for the uk.
45:49
I feel like Beja bro wouldn't have had their the flavor that it has today,
45:54
because Sunday, between one to five, instead of watching foot the footy or
45:58
being you go to the pub for a Sunday rose, you'll have, two meats and a
46:02
veg with, in a physical bait, right?
46:06
And so this particular cultural sort of nuance helped Bating bro become this.
46:13
On rush chill.
46:14
Sunday connection time starts at noon, ends at 9:00 PM experience.
46:21
Let's have dinner together.
46:22
Let's have a drink, let's have a drink again.
46:24
Let's keep on connecting.
46:26
And so when people buy a ticket, they don't buy the ticket for
46:29
a two quick hour through hour.
46:30
Wa they buy a ticket for the whole experience of the day,
46:34
of the whole day together.
46:37
And even with the team that helps us, the crew that helps us.
46:41
They spend like few hours, hanging out, having a meal together before
46:45
the party starts, or that's having, lot, lots of banters together.
46:49
And so a lot of the scheduling of how the whole day works is like
46:53
one big, in a way, one big kind of holistic experience, I would say.
47:00
From putting things up together, taking things down, getting to
47:03
know people, getting the newbies in place exchanging numbers.
47:07
Sharing your feedback on the group Telegram chat, saying who you connected
47:10
with, who are the lost connections?
47:13
It, it feels like very special lived experience, together.
47:20
Buck: Wow, that's beautiful.
47:22
So I see we're coming up to the 15 minute mark, which means we've got
47:26
about 10 minutes left of recording.
47:28
Is there anything you would particularly like to talk about that we've not
47:31
covered, or anything you'd like to plug?
47:36
Nick: I'd like to plug that we are moving into a brand new venue
47:42
after two crazy evictions last
47:46
Buck: Oh wow.
47:47
Nick: So we were.
47:49
We were evicted twice, not from the people who rented the space out for us, but from
47:53
the neighbors across the road or in the same building that felt very uncomfortable
47:59
with homosexual activity in the building.
48:04
Yeah.
48:05
When I say uncomfortable, like we were not noisy.
48:08
We would not disrupt anything.
48:09
We're very respectful and we were because of fear of what?
48:17
Potentially they may have feared us being a heavy druggie sort of community
48:22
because sex is always somehow connected with each other and it's never anything
48:27
that is associated with Soberness.
48:31
So a lot of that came
48:36
I think it was during the summer and after our first venue.
48:43
We had to find the second one, which was rushed, but we did it because we
48:48
wanted to keep a sense of movement.
48:50
And then I actually had to give up altogether after the second
48:53
time because it was really hard.
48:55
It was really heartbreaking after the November party where we finally spent
49:00
four months tweaking how everything was gonna come together, and then we were
49:06
told not to come back the next month.
49:07
However, the people who.
49:10
Where in a previous venue were so gracious and connected us with another space that
49:15
have not even launched the building yet.
49:19
So this building is still a construction site,
49:22
Buck: Oh, interesting.
49:24
Nick: and so the party is in a warehouse in Dalston.
49:31
It will remain underground for as long as it can be at the moment,
49:36
and we're very excited because.
49:39
It's been designed and looked after with another kinkster who really
49:45
wanted this to be dedicated to sex,
49:49
Buck: Oh, that's cool.
49:51
Nick: and it is designed in a way that prioritizes different
49:58
play spaces and lighting and cool furniture that is just for play.
50:05
And we've been really blessed and lucky to be their soft launch for this event.
50:10
Unofficial staff launch though someone said we're a stiff
50:13
launch because I don't think,
50:15
Buck: Yeah.
50:15
Nick: not gonna stop for very long.
50:18
And so that's one big plug.
50:20
And secondly, we are also launching our website.
50:23
I know I haven't, our website's been out of date for a while and the,
50:31
it's taken us a while to realize.
50:33
That we should probably gather all these amazing resources and things and
50:37
inspirations that we've been doing for over the years, and also start making
50:41
some cute merch for people to to feel like they're part of the tribe as well.
50:45
So we have pins, t-shirts, socks, all the cute things that we've
50:49
been working for the past month.
50:51
And I hope that this is something from a global perspective that people
50:54
can also feel like they're part of.
50:56
That the Bating bureau, that Bating bureau community is.
51:00
Really open for everybody who's looking for that particular level of
51:03
chill, friendship, low expectations, about how to be a man, quote.
51:09
That's, all that bullshit needs to go.
51:12
And we are also delighted to say that we have made.
51:18
Some amazing progress with our five issues of ine, and I feel if anyone really is
51:23
interested in digging deeper into the culture, the art, the essays, the social
51:28
political understanding of what this means, and if they want to contribute
51:33
from an artistic or intellectual, academic, or playful perspective, please
51:39
do check out the Bader Sex zine series.
51:42
We also have podcasts.
51:43
We have.
51:44
Five E zines, five physical zines.
51:47
We really encourage you to buy the physical zines because in the world
51:51
of everything being so digital, having a tactile thing that you can
51:54
open and flip over actually sometimes warms the soul out sometimes too,
51:58
Buck: Oh, definitely.
51:59
Nick: And so we'd like to say.
52:01
Finally finished the five part series and the last one being the ecstatic
52:06
edition, which we talk about gooning as a practice and that's a whole other
52:09
episode in itself, what Gooning means.
52:12
But in short, for those who are interested in what Gooning is, please check out
52:15
number five because we talk about what it means but we also want to like show
52:21
appreciated appreciation and love.
52:23
For the wider king community, thank you for recon for inviting us back as well
52:27
for last year and also for this year.
52:30
Hopefully we'll able to take over one of the rooms and have another Bating
52:34
house special in one of the sports day.
52:38
And so currently we're very excited.
52:40
I feel like it's going to be a really inspiring year to connect and build
52:45
upon what we've had from the previous.
52:48
Buck: Oh, that sounds awesome.
52:49
I love hearing about all of this, like people doing their own websites
52:54
is very close to my own heart.
52:55
I'm a great believer like we should be not just relying on
52:58
big social media companies.
53:00
The fact that you do a physical zine is amazing, as you say, like being able to
53:05
have something to hold is very special.
53:08
And good for the soul.
53:09
I feel like this has been amazing.
53:11
So thank you so much for this.
53:13
Like I came into this not knowing what to expect.
53:16
It was very much outside my wheelhouse, and you've explained
53:20
it in such a beautiful way, and I really get it now and it's beautiful.
53:26
Nick: Thank you so much.
53:27
I think sometimes we need to go to the essence of things, like what's
53:30
the, what is the gist of this?
53:32
Why is it important for people to come together this way and.
53:37
Maybe the kink isn't particularly that clear, but the intention and the yearning,
53:42
like you said earlier, is very relatable.
53:48
The yearn for intimacy, the yearn for friendship, the yearn
53:51
for physical touch, and the.
53:53
Thank you so much for, holding space and allowing me to share these stories.
53:57
I didn't know what to share, to be fair.
53:58
I was like, we'll get, we'll go with this.
54:00
And I also would love to send you the five copies of the zine if you're interested.
54:06
Buck: Thank you.
54:07
Nick: yeah, definitely.
54:08
And you're very much invited to come to the Sunday, the next Sunday third birthday
54:12
party if you're interested in coming, doing the socials or the after party, or
54:16
if you wanna just come through and just see what the space is about please do.
54:20
We'd love to have you.
54:21
Buck: Oh, brilliant.
54:21
Thank you very much.
54:22
I'm, yeah, very interested in that.
54:24
Thank you.
54:26
Thank you.
54:26
So yes, that's our interview and as always listeners play safe.