Latest / Question Everything / Why did ICE Lock Up this Pro-Trump Reporter? (Part One)

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Why did ICE Lock Up this Pro-Trump Reporter? (Part One) · Question Everything

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: I want to play you something the president said the
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: other week because you might have missed it. This was
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: shortly after an ICE agent had fatally shot 37-year-old Renee
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Good at point-blank range in her car in Minneapolis. At first,
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: the Trump administration had said Good was a domestic terrorist
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: who was trying to run over the agent and kill him.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: But now at this press conference, the president had a
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: different tune. because he'd learned something about Rene Good's family.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to edit this clip for clarity, by
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: the way, so just bear with it.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: I felt horribly when I was told that the young
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: woman who had the tragedy, it's a tragedy, it's a
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: horrible thing. Everybody would say it. Ice would say the
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: same thing. But when I learned her parents and her
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: father in particular is like, I hope he.
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: Still is, but I don't know.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Was a tremendous Trump fan. He was all for Trump,
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: loved Trump. And, you know.
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: It's terrible.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: I was told that by a lot of people. They said, oh,
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: he loves you. He was a, I hope he still
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: feels that way. I don't know, it's a hard situation.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: But her father was a tremendous, and parents were tremendous
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: Trump fans. It's so sad. It just happens.
• 1:25
  Speaker 4: It's terrible.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: The only thing that might drive Donald Trump more than
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: payback is praise. All it takes for Renee Good to
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: go from a domestic terrorist to the victim of a
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: horrible tragedy in his eyes is learning that her dad
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: was a Trump supporter. It's sick, but real. Trump craves adoration.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: The story we have for you today, it's remarkable because
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: it's about someone the Trump administration targeted, a reporter who
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: also was a Trump fan. This reporter covered ICE and
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: police up close for many years, oftentimes quite favorably. He's
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: a conservative. He supported many of Trump's policies. This guy
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: was known for being tough on crime, tough on undocumented immigrants.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: But the administration still went after him. And I think
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: it might be that this reporter is so idiosyncratic that
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: they just didn't really know, maybe. Couldn't get a beat
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: on him. Maybe made assumptions about him that were wrong.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: And it cost him. I think if Donald Trump himself
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: heard the full story of what his government did to
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: this reporter, it might even give him pause. From Placement
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: Theory and KCRW, this is Question Everything. I'm Brian Reed.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: Stick around. So we've been reporting this story for months,
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: and this is going to be the first part in
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: a special two-part series this week and next. And our
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: story begins in June of last year at one of
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: the No Kings protests that broke out in response to
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: the Trump administration's harsh immigration tactics on Donald Trump's 79th birthday.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: Upwards of 6 million people demonstrated across the country, possibly
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: the biggest single-day protest in U.S.
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: History.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: And in a suburb of Atlanta, there was an encounter
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: between a reporter and police. Here's our producer, Sobe Kaysis,
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: with the story.
• 3:23
  Speaker 5: It was a muggy June afternoon. Protesters were gathered by
• 3:27
  Speaker 5: a strip mall parking lot near Doraville, Georgia, with a
• 3:30
  Speaker 5: Planet Fitness and a Kroger. Police were there too, three
• 3:34
  Speaker 5: different departments, many of the cops in full riot gear.
• 3:38
  Speaker 5: One journalist there that day was Emily Wu Pearson from
• 3:41
  Speaker 5: Atlanta's public radio station WABE.
• 3:44
  Speaker 6: There were police all around. No matter where you were,
• 3:49
  Speaker 6: there was an officer. And then... At some point, the
• 3:53
  Speaker 6: protest goes from the sidewalk into the crosswalk, and then
• 3:58
  Speaker 6: people start marching in the road.
• 4:05
  Speaker 5: The cops are claiming the protesters aren't supposed to go
• 4:08
  Speaker 5: in the street. That's the main point of tension. Protesters
• 4:12
  Speaker 5: hadn't submitted paperwork to the city, so they didn't have
• 4:14
  Speaker 5: permission to march in the road. As the number of
• 4:17
  Speaker 5: protesters grew, ultimately to hundreds of people, Police pushed them
• 4:22
  Speaker 5: out of the road, onto the sidewalk, through the narrow
• 4:25
  Speaker 5: grass landscaping, and into the strip mall parking lot. And
• 4:29
  Speaker 5: then police tried to push them out of the parking lot, too.
• 4:32
  Speaker 5: They're just trying to disperse them, get them to leave.
• 4:36
  Speaker 5: There were many journalists besides Emily there that day. A
• 4:39
  Speaker 5: TV team from a local Fox affiliate, a reporter from Telemundo,
• 4:43
  Speaker 5: at least two journalists from the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, and Mario Guevara.
• 4:49
  Speaker 5: a journalist with his own news channel, MG News. At
• 5:02
  Speaker 5: the protest, Emily recognizes Mario. He's a fixture of Spanish-language
• 5:07
  Speaker 5: reporting in Atlanta. He's clearly identifiable as a journalist. He's
• 5:11
  Speaker 5: wearing a vest that says PRESS in big white letters.
• 5:14
  Speaker 5: His media credentials hang on a lanyard around his neck.
• 5:19
  Speaker 6: He has a very iconic red shirt that says MG
• 5:21
  Speaker 6: News on it.
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: I see him.
• 5:23
  Speaker 6: Then he's on the sidewalk in front of the parking
• 5:26
  Speaker 6: lot of the Planet Venice. And he's live streaming. He
• 5:30
  Speaker 6: has his helmet on.
• 5:33
  Speaker 5: Mario's been a journalist for over two decades, won an
• 5:36
  Speaker 5: Emmy for his reporting while at Mundo Hispanico, Georgia's largest
• 5:39
  Speaker 5: Spanish-language newspaper. MG News, or Mario Guevara Noticias, is his
• 5:45
  Speaker 5: independent outlet where he livestreams coverage that frequently has to
• 5:48
  Speaker 5: do with law enforcement and immigration. His slogan is, Lo
• 5:52
  Speaker 5: vio primero aquí. You saw it here first.
• 5:57
  Speaker 6: So Mario is super well-known in Atlanta because he's super
• 6:03
  Speaker 6: gutsy in his reporting. He would get right up in
• 6:07
  Speaker 6: the action in ways that are very honestly scary and
• 6:12
  Speaker 6: intimidating to, I mean, he would just be in the
• 6:14
  Speaker 6: crux of the action all the time.
• 6:17
  Speaker 5: And Mario is up in the action at this protest.
• 6:20
  Speaker 5: He's got two phones, live streaming to TikTok and Facebook.
• 6:24
  Speaker 5: Here he's talking to camera.
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: This is here in the city of Chambliss.
• 6:45
  Speaker 5: He's saying, this is what's going on here, my people.
• 6:48
  Speaker 5: At this moment, groups of protesters are demonstrating against the
• 6:51
  Speaker 5: actions of Donald Trump's administration. Then the protest starts to
• 6:57
  Speaker 5: get confrontational. A protester walks defiantly towards the line of
• 7:02
  Speaker 5: police who are barricading the street with riot shields. Officers
• 7:05
  Speaker 5: storm up to him, push him to the ground. Other
• 7:08
  Speaker 5: protesters rush into the street. Mario's streaming all of this
• 7:11
  Speaker 5: live to his hundreds of thousands of followers. Then, the
• 7:18
  Speaker 5: police deploy flashbangs and tear gas. Mario and Emily are
• 7:28
  Speaker 5: both tear gassed.
• 7:30
  Speaker 6: People were screaming and running, and the officers were trying
• 7:33
  Speaker 6: to direct everybody off the roadways, and every single, like, media, advocates, activists, like,
• 7:40
  Speaker 6: Regular guys, everybody's like, do you need first aid? Are
• 7:43
  Speaker 6: you okay? Like, I was checking in with the other
• 7:45
  Speaker 6: journalist I saw. I just, like, you know, made eye
• 7:47
  Speaker 6: contact with everybody that I saw. I was like, okay,
• 7:49
  Speaker 6: I saw Mario, you know, I saw Arvin, I saw Riley,
• 7:54
  Speaker 6: you know, Sophia. I'm just doing my mental checklist. I
• 7:57
  Speaker 6: go back to my car.
• 7:58
  Speaker 5: In Mario's videos and police body cam footage, you see
• 8:02
  Speaker 5: cops trying to disperse the protesters and the journalists, though
• 8:06
  Speaker 5: it's not clear where they want reporters like Mario to go.
• 8:10
  Speaker 5: A cop shouts at him.
• 8:11
  Speaker 4: Hey, last warning, sir.
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: You're in the doorway. Last warning. Stay on the road.
• 8:18
  Speaker 5: Mario gets back on the sidewalk, but it's chaotic. He's
• 8:21
  Speaker 5: trying to report, obey orders, fight through more tear gas.
• 8:25
  Speaker 5: At one point on the body cam footage, a group
• 8:27
  Speaker 5: of three officers are looking at Mario. His red shirt
• 8:31
  Speaker 5: stands out down the street. One of them says... He's.
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: The only guy in the red shirt. He's so sick
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: in the road, he's going. He's been warned multiple times.
• 8:40
  Speaker 5: The other officer is confirming the guy who's with the press. Yep,
• 8:46
  Speaker 5: his colleague says. Mario drifts from the sidewalk onto a
• 8:50
  Speaker 5: grassy strip next to the parking lot. The cop tells
• 8:54
  Speaker 5: him to get back on the sidewalk. Trying to stay
• 8:57
  Speaker 5: clear of this oncoming officer, Mario steps back. From the grass,
• 9:02
  Speaker 5: to the sidewalk, and then back further, onto the street. Immediately,
• 9:06
  Speaker 5: the group of cops who'd been scoping him from down
• 9:08
  Speaker 5: the block They pounce.
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: Officer, I'm a member of the media, officer.
• 9:16
  Speaker 5: Officer, I'm a member of the media, Mario says. They
• 9:23
  Speaker 5: arrest Mario, zip-tie his hands. You can hear people calling
• 9:27
  Speaker 5: out Mario's name as officers walk him towards their cruisers.
• 9:37
  Speaker 5: There are a bunch of other journalists on the scene.
• 9:40
  Speaker 5: One of them told me he went in the street too,
• 9:42
  Speaker 5: but none of them were arrested, except Mario, who's live
• 9:46
  Speaker 5: streaming in Spanish. There's a news crew from Fox 5
• 9:49
  Speaker 5: Local across the street, a reporter doing a stand-up in
• 9:52
  Speaker 5: front of a camera. Behind her, Mario is being arrested.
• 9:57
  Speaker 5: The camera operator zooms in. They're surprised. to see a
• 10:00
  Speaker 5: reporter being arrested. Did I see press written on their chest?
• 10:07
  Speaker 7: Yes, yes, it did appear that he did have press
• 10:10
  Speaker 7: written on his chest there.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: That does appear to be the case.
• 10:14
  Speaker 5: The police take off Mario's press vest and helmet and
• 10:17
  Speaker 5: put him in an SUV. Mario says, I was just reporting, officer.
• 10:27
  Speaker 5: Just reporting. The cops drag him down to county jail
• 10:32
  Speaker 5: and charge Mario with unlawful assembly, obstruction of an officer,
• 10:36
  Speaker 5: and being a pedestrian on the roadway. Over the past
• 10:44
  Speaker 5: several months, I've been speaking to Mario Guevara. in a
• 10:47
  Speaker 5: mix of English and Spanish with an interpreter, about all
• 10:50
  Speaker 5: that's happened to him since getting arrested that day. This
• 10:54
  Speaker 5: was seven months before the former CNN anchor Don Lemon
• 10:58
  Speaker 5: and independent journalist Georgia Fort were arrested for covering an
• 11:01
  Speaker 5: anti-ice protest inside a Minnesota church a few weeks ago.
• 11:06
  Speaker 5: The government's attacks on Mario foreshadowed those recent journalist arrests.
• 11:11
  Speaker 5: Though unlike Don Lemon and Georgia Fort, Once Mario was
• 11:15
  Speaker 5: locked up that day, he was never let out. After
• 11:20
  Speaker 5: the protest, ICE detained Mario on outrageous grounds, incarcerated him
• 11:26
  Speaker 5: for more than 100 days, and finally kicked him out
• 11:30
  Speaker 5: of the country. All of this despite the fact that
• 11:34
  Speaker 5: Mario has actually long been a booster of Donald Trump.
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: I think he's a very intelligent man. I think he
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: is extremely clever for business. I also think that he's
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: very charismatic. A lot of people don't like him, but
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: I think he's very charismatic. Now, my personal ideology, and
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: everyone knew that, I am a Republican.
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: Why?
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: Because I am pro-life. Anyone can have whatever relationship they
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: want with whomever they want. That's their lives. But if
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: it's time for marriage, I think marriage is between a
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: man and a woman. People think other things. That's fine.
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: They have the right. But things like that make me
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: a Republican.
• 12:32
  Speaker 5: Talking to Mario all these months, I've been trying to
• 12:34
  Speaker 5: figure out who is this gutsy Salvadoran immigrant reporter who
• 12:39
  Speaker 5: dug Trump And how did he end up getting targeted
• 12:42
  Speaker 5: by the Trump administration, even though he backed their policies,
• 12:46
  Speaker 5: backed Trump himself? What I found is that once Mario
• 12:51
  Speaker 5: was arrested, the government mounted a concerted campaign to get
• 12:55
  Speaker 5: him out of America, blatantly ignoring his constitutional protections, lying
• 13:00
  Speaker 5: about his immigration history, and crucially, by enlisting the help
• 13:04
  Speaker 5: of local police who Mario supported and knew personally. who
• 13:09
  Speaker 5: turned on him. Even in today's America, Mario's loyalty was
• 13:15
  Speaker 5: not enough to save him. Sitting in jail after the
• 13:26
  Speaker 5: protests that day in June, Mario thought about the protections
• 13:30
  Speaker 5: he was afforded as a reporter. Covering a protest, that's
• 13:33
  Speaker 5: basic First Amendment stuff. Even though journalists sometimes do get
• 13:38
  Speaker 5: caught up in protest arrests on the same kind of
• 13:40
  Speaker 5: charges cops give demonstrators, they're usually let out quickly, and
• 13:44
  Speaker 5: the charges are dropped.
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: I've lived most of my life in El Salvador. El
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: Salvador has always been a country without justice, where crime ruled,
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: where government corruption was rampant. And then I went to
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: the United States and I saw something different. The laws
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: were different. So I adapted to this safer, better country.
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: I trusted American justice 100%. And I believe in the
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: freedom of the press. I said, don't worry, it's a
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: matter of time. I will be let out. I was
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: confident that the American justice were going to realize their mistake.
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: I had done nothing wrong.
• 14:34
  Speaker 5: Mario's attorney stopped by the jail and reassured him, don't worry,
• 14:38
  Speaker 5: these are ridiculous. Come Monday, you'll be let out.
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: He was reporting.
• 14:44
  Speaker 8: He was live streaming the protests.
• 14:47
  Speaker 5: This is Mario's lawyer, Giovanni Diaz.
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: He had his press badge on.
• 14:51
  Speaker 8: He had the big press vest on.
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: He had the helmet on.
• 14:55
  Speaker 8: He had his credentials. He didn't attack anybody. He wasn't
• 14:58
  Speaker 8: going after anybody.
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: He wasn't doing anything wrong. He was just reporting.
• 15:03
  Speaker 8: The fact that they had an issue with the fact
• 15:04
  Speaker 8: that he stepped on the street. You know, if you
• 15:06
  Speaker 8: watch that video, I mean, a lot of viewers will
• 15:09
  Speaker 8: be confused by the fact that it seemed like they
• 15:12
  Speaker 8: were following him. It was the same three officers. They
• 15:17
  Speaker 8: can clearly see he's a member of the press and
• 15:19
  Speaker 8: they didn't care.
• 15:20
  Speaker 5: It was surprising because Mario's whole brand is reporting on
• 15:25
  Speaker 5: law enforcement and immigration enforcement with a law and order POV.
• 15:29
  Speaker 5: He's a cop guy and he's well known for it.
• 15:32
  Speaker 5: Mario has about 1.4 million followers on his online channels,
• 15:37
  Speaker 5: which is comparable to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, the biggest newspaper
• 15:41
  Speaker 5: in the city. Mario told me he knows the police
• 15:44
  Speaker 5: chief in charge of the officers who arrested him from
• 15:47
  Speaker 5: Doraville PD.
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure the chief was there in that moment
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: of the protest. They released me in the moment, but
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: he was not there. And they arrested me for stupid charges,
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: you know.
• 16:00
  Speaker 5: Dumb luck, Mario thought. He knew so many cops from
• 16:03
  Speaker 5: covering them over the years. He'd barbecued with officers at
• 16:06
  Speaker 5: his house, gone to birthday parties for cop friends' kids,
• 16:10
  Speaker 5: and vice versa. One officer he knew attended Mario's daughter's quinceañera.
• 16:15
  Speaker 5: But unfortunately, none of them were at the protest that day.
• 16:19
  Speaker 5: Also unfortunate for Mario, that this whole ordeal happened to
• 16:23
  Speaker 5: go down in DeKalb County, instead of the county where
• 16:26
  Speaker 5: he lives, Gwinnett. The Gwinnett County Sheriff's Office was probably
• 16:34
  Speaker 5: the local department he had the strongest relationship with. Gwinnett
• 16:38
  Speaker 5: County has one of the largest Latino populations in the
• 16:41
  Speaker 5: Atlanta area. And the Gwinnett Sheriff actually gave Mario an
• 16:45
  Speaker 5: award in 2024 for his work.
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: I would be their spokesperson telling the community about coming
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: events or some messages like, trust us, we're here to
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: protect you. I conveyed that message to the Latin community
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: for many years, and that made me have a very
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: good relationship with the sheriff.
• 17:08
  Speaker 5: On Mario's Facebook page, there's a picture of Mario with
• 17:12
  Speaker 5: a huge smile, standing with the Gwinnett sheriff himself, Kibo Taylor,
• 17:17
  Speaker 5: as well as another officer who Mario has his arm around,
• 17:20
  Speaker 5: holding a plaque the department gave him in recognition of
• 17:23
  Speaker 5: his work. That's how in good standing Mario was with
• 17:26
  Speaker 5: the various cops nearby. So it wasn't unreasonable to think
• 17:31
  Speaker 5: this would all be set straight soon. And sure enough,
• 17:34
  Speaker 5: when Monday comes, the DeKalb County judge looks over the
• 17:38
  Speaker 5: charges from the protest and grants Mario Bond.
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: I went back to my cell and I told my cellmates, hey,
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: they're letting me go. And I was just waiting for
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: that process, and two hours later, there was a sheriff's
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: officer who said, Mario Guevara, you will not be freed.
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: I asked, why? And he said, ICE placed a hold
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: on you. Why? We don't know why, but when we
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: informed ICE of your arrest, ICE asked to hold you.
• 18:21
  Speaker 5: How were you feeling when you learned that? Were you worried?
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: My reaction was to tell my lawyers immediately and tell
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: my family. I told my family over the phone to
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: tell the Southern Council that I was being processed. My
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: wife told them, Mario has a work permit valid until 2029.
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: He's clean. Why is ICE taking him? And they said,
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: that's strange because this should not happen. And my counsel
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: checked with ICE. Maybe there was some bad information, but
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: actually it was true. I was worried because my family
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: were in anguish. I could hear them cry, my wife.
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: And I was worried for them.
• 19:15
  Speaker 5: After a quick break, Mario fights to get out of detention.
• 19:19
  Speaker 5: and learns someone's been looking for dirt on him. When
• 19:33
  Speaker 5: Mario was arrested while reporting, he'd been doing everything he
• 19:36
  Speaker 5: thought he was supposed to do as an immigrant to
• 19:39
  Speaker 5: this country. He'd obtained a work permit. He was a
• 19:42
  Speaker 5: business owner, a public figure who'd been contributing to his
• 19:45
  Speaker 5: community for more than 20 years. He had no criminal record,
• 19:49
  Speaker 5: He'd raised a family. here, has a wife and three
• 19:51
  Speaker 5: grown kids, two of whom are U.S. citizens. He and
• 19:55
  Speaker 5: his wife are in the middle of applying for their
• 19:56
  Speaker 5: green cards. 22 years ago, Mario was reporting for a
• 20:07
  Speaker 5: conservative newspaper in El Salvador. and got attacked by left-wing
• 20:11
  Speaker 5: protesters at a demonstration. He had to seek refuge in
• 20:15
  Speaker 5: the Ministry of Justice. Mario says people were threatening to
• 20:19
  Speaker 5: kill him because of his coverage. So he fled his
• 20:22
  Speaker 5: home country for Atlanta with his wife and young daughter.
• 20:26
  Speaker 5: He overstayed his visa. He and his wife built a
• 20:30
  Speaker 5: life in Georgia, had two more kids, two sons. They're
• 20:34
  Speaker 5: the ones who are citizens. His daughter is DACA. In 2007, Mario,
• 20:39
  Speaker 5: along with his wife and daughter, applied for asylum. Atlanta
• 20:46
  Speaker 5: has the highest asylum denial rate in the country. And eventually,
• 20:51
  Speaker 5: after years pending in court, a judge denied Mario's case.
• 20:56
  Speaker 5: In 2012, Mario's attorneys appealed. And the result was a
• 21:00
  Speaker 5: wonky legal limbo. His case was what's called administratively closed,
• 21:06
  Speaker 5: which means... It wasn't an active case. And ICE agreed
• 21:11
  Speaker 5: not to deport him. But his asylum application also wasn't resolved.
• 21:18
  Speaker 5: It's just pending. In the meantime, Mario was able to
• 21:22
  Speaker 5: get a work permit from the Department of Homeland Security,
• 21:25
  Speaker 5: eventually apply for a green card, and continue on with
• 21:29
  Speaker 5: his life as a reporter. Mario knew that DHS and
• 21:33
  Speaker 5: ICE had gotten much more aggressive in Trump's second term.
• 21:37
  Speaker 5: But the rules of the road were still shifting five
• 21:40
  Speaker 5: months in. He couldn't imagine what ICE would have on
• 21:43
  Speaker 5: him to justify detaining him.
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: I consider myself someone who's knowledgeable about immigration news related
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: to the police. I have years of experience investigating immigration.
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: That is why I never understood that they accused me
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: of so many things. When I knew what I was doing,
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: I'm no rookie.
• 22:09
  Speaker 5: Mario's been covering ICE almost the entire time he's lived
• 22:13
  Speaker 5: in the U.S. Since the Obama administration, a lot of
• 22:16
  Speaker 5: what he's known for is going to the scene of
• 22:18
  Speaker 5: ICE operations and live streaming them. Here's just one of many,
• 22:23
  Speaker 5: many examples. From last year, he's on the side of
• 22:26
  Speaker 5: a highway filming four Latino men pulled over by federal agents.
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: Let's see.
• 22:31
  Speaker 8: Can you see the federal officers, my people?
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: Mario says, you can see the federal officers. My people,
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: this is here in the area of Jimmy Carter Boulevard.
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: They've stopped and surrounded this work truck. They have this
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: group of workers.
• 22:44
  Speaker 8: If someone recognizes these guys, tell them that the immigration
• 22:46
  Speaker 8: is taking them away.
• 23:08
  Speaker 5: According to a reporter at the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, when they
• 23:12
  Speaker 5: had trouble finding an official tally of local ICE arrests,
• 23:16
  Speaker 5: they turned to Mario. MG News was the most comprehensive
• 23:20
  Speaker 5: resource for this. His raid coverage was super popular.
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: When I reported a raid somewhere, I realized that the
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: Latinos would not go there that day because they were
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: afraid of ISIS surveillance. So these were alerts to my community.
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: But I didn't do it because I wanted to alert them.
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: I wanted to inform them.
• 23:51
  Speaker 5: Because in fact, Mario is pretty hawkish on immigration enforcement.
• 23:56
  Speaker 5: One of the main reasons he's been into Trump was
• 23:59
  Speaker 5: because of Trump's immigration agenda.
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: Trump announced that they were going to hunt down and
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: prosecute and deport dangerous criminals that were a threat to society.
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: And that's a good thing. I was one of the
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: ones celebrating because I thought that the criminals would be
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: taken off the streets and my neighborhood would be safer.
• 24:22
  Speaker 5: I mean, he famously called immigrants criminals and rapists. Were
• 24:26
  Speaker 5: you offended by that?
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: Well, I think it was wrong. Because most of us
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: are not. I said, well, this is just politics. He's
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: trying to attract votes.
• 24:39
  Speaker 5: Mario thinks Democrats gave too many benefits to new immigrants
• 24:42
  Speaker 5: who have come in too easily. And he's not shy
• 24:45
  Speaker 5: about letting this perspective shape his coverage. I saw a
• 24:49
  Speaker 5: video of this one ice arrest Mario covered a few
• 24:52
  Speaker 5: years ago that I think captures his position well. A
• 24:58
  Speaker 5: man called up Mario, an immigrant.
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: He was in a car repair shop, 7 or 8 p.m.
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: I don't remember, but he was whispering, Mr. Mario, ICE
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: has me surrounded. I can see them through the security cameras.
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: I asked, where are you? And he gave me his location.
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: I went there.
• 25:21
  Speaker 5: Mario shows up at the scene. He's got his two
• 25:23
  Speaker 5: phones on him. With one, he's still on the line
• 25:26
  Speaker 5: with this man. With the other, he starts live-streaming.
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: I started recording. The ICE agent said, look, keep your distance.
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: You can record, but keep your distance. I said, I
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: have this guy on the phone.
• 25:40
  Speaker 5: The man on the phone is willing to come out
• 25:42
  Speaker 5: peacefully and turn himself over to ICE, but is terrified
• 25:46
  Speaker 5: that if he opens the door, the ICE agents will
• 25:49
  Speaker 5: hurt him. He tells Mario that, and Mario turns to
• 25:52
  Speaker 5: the agents and says, He.
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: Wants to turn himself in on the ICE agents. People said, OK,
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: what does he want? And he said, he doesn't want
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: to be beaten. He's going to get out voluntarily. Oh, OK, fine.
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: And they would give me the instructions and I would
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: convey them.
• 26:15
  Speaker 5: This is the footage of that moment. Mario negotiating between
• 26:19
  Speaker 5: the man in the auto shop and the ICE agents outside.
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: He says to calm down, he says to calm down.
• 26:25
  Speaker 5: It's pretty striking. Mario really vouches for ICE with this
• 26:28
  Speaker 5: frightened man. Mario translates for him. He tells him the
• 26:32
  Speaker 5: ICE agent is saying to calm down, come out with
• 26:35
  Speaker 5: your hands up. I'm here outside, Mario tells him on
• 26:38
  Speaker 5: the phone, and they say they won't hurt you.
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: Hey, I'm coming. With your hands up, they say, with
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: your hands up, please. I'm outside, they say they won't
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: hurt you, don't worry. Raise your hands, they say. He
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: was handcuffed. It was a peaceful arrest. Basically, I was
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: the mediator between the detained person and ICE.
• 27:04
  Speaker 5: Mario says the man was deported, and that one of
• 27:08
  Speaker 5: the man's relatives contacted Mario after to thank him for
• 27:12
  Speaker 5: helping get the man through the situation unharmed. Mario feels
• 27:16
  Speaker 5: like he helped everybody involved, the man and ICE. So
• 27:21
  Speaker 5: you showed up to report on the situation, but you
• 27:25
  Speaker 5: found yourself a part of it. Did it feel like
• 27:29
  Speaker 5: you were crossing a line or taking sides?
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: No, no, because I never intervened in the arrest. I
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: didn't tell the officers what to do. I was just
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: a mediator between the parties. That is the level of
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: trust that people place in me. I don't like to
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: disappoint people. I always wanted to be in the middle,
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: help some on one hand and the others on the
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: other hand. I have no issue with that. I would
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: always joke that if my university teachers saw me, they
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: would say that I was breaking each and every rule
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: in journalism because you cannot get involved. You should only
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: do reporting. Don't do anything extra. I did everything wrong
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: in that sense. But I don't think I'm a bad
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: journalist because of that. On the contrary, I think it
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: makes me more human. People started saying that I was
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: enjoying watching Latinos being arrested, that I was more pro-cop
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: than pro-Latino. Some people even said that I was two-faced
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: and was actually working with ICE, informing about Latinos in
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: the community.
• 28:37
  Speaker 5: In Spanish, sapo, or toad, is slang for snitch. There
• 28:42
  Speaker 5: are toad emojis in the comments of Mario's videos. How,
• 28:46
  Speaker 5: they wonder, does Mario know where ICE is going to
• 28:49
  Speaker 5: be in advance? Is he tipping them off?
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: It's a lie. I was never an informer. I never
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: worked for the government. So I didn't care. It sounds ironic,
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: but even if people are bad-mouthing me, that helps me.
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: So if you're going to do that, and that is
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: going to increase my engagement, and I'm going to get
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: more views, say it. I don't care.
• 29:15
  Speaker 5: If Mario was an informer, it wasn't helping him now.
• 29:21
  Speaker 5: Four days after he was arrested, while reporting at a protest,
• 29:26
  Speaker 5: ICE has Mario transferred from the DeKalb County Jail into
• 29:29
  Speaker 5: their custody at the Folkston ICE Processing Center. It's six
• 29:34
  Speaker 5: hours away from his family, who are working frantically with
• 29:37
  Speaker 5: his lawyers to figure out what to do. What happened
• 29:42
  Speaker 5: to Mario is known as a detainer. ICE requests jails
• 29:46
  Speaker 5: and prisons to hold non-citizens who are locked up for
• 29:49
  Speaker 5: a crime for up to 48 extra hours after they're
• 29:53
  Speaker 5: supposed to be released to give ICE time to come
• 29:56
  Speaker 5: pick them up and transfer them into their custody. For
• 30:00
  Speaker 5: a long time, detainers were mostly used to hold non-citizens
• 30:03
  Speaker 5: with serious criminal records. But in Trump's second term, that's
• 30:07
  Speaker 5: all changed. Mario's lawyer, Giovanni Diaz, told me, now, almost
• 30:13
  Speaker 5: anyone who isn't a citizen or a legal permanent resident
• 30:16
  Speaker 5: who finds themselves in contact with local law enforcement gets
• 30:20
  Speaker 5: an ice hold. It's a policy of mass detention and
• 30:24
  Speaker 5: mass deportation. Different states and localities have different policies regarding
• 30:30
  Speaker 5: ICE detainers, especially in this new regime. Some abide by them.
• 30:34
  Speaker 5: Others don't. Mario had reported on this, actually, on how
• 30:39
  Speaker 5: local law enforcement in his area were or were not
• 30:42
  Speaker 5: cooperating with ICE. Especially when it came to the sheriff
• 30:45
  Speaker 5: of Gwinnett County, where he lives, Sheriff Keebo Taylor, the
• 30:49
  Speaker 5: guy he posed grinning with who gave him that plaque.
• 30:55
  Speaker 5: When Taylor ran for sheriff in 2021, one of his
• 30:58
  Speaker 5: big promises, if he won, was to pull the department
• 31:02
  Speaker 5: out of a federal program called 287G that meant the
• 31:05
  Speaker 5: department would directly assist ICE in a bunch of ways,
• 31:09
  Speaker 5: including by enforcing detainers. And Taylor did it on his
• 31:13
  Speaker 5: first day in office. It's out with the.
• 31:16
  Speaker 7: Old and in with the new. The new sheriff in
• 31:18
  Speaker 7: town pulling the county out of the 287G program on
• 31:21
  Speaker 7: his first day in office as the clock struck midnight.
• 31:24
  Speaker 7: It's a federal partnership with ICE that allows deputies to
• 31:27
  Speaker 7: screen foreign-born people coming into jail for their legal status.
• 31:31
  Speaker 5: The sheriff, who's Black, said he thought the program unfairly
• 31:34
  Speaker 5: targeted people of color.
• 31:36
  Speaker 4: I saw that program as a discriminatory program, just like
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: any other tool in law enforcement. They're putting in place
• 31:45
  Speaker 4: to do good, and then sometimes people abuse it.
• 31:49
  Speaker 5: And Mario agreed with Sheriff Taylor. This gets at the
• 31:53
  Speaker 5: nuance of Mario's views. He likes tough immigration enforcement against
• 31:58
  Speaker 5: dangerous criminals, but he doesn't want cops or ICE racially
• 32:03
  Speaker 5: profiling people.
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: We gave him a platform because that was what the
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: Latino community wanted to hear. He went to the Hispanic
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: community and said, okay, I'm going to deal with 287G.
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: I'm going to take immigrants out of jail and you
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: will have no deportations with me. That is what he
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: promised to the Latino community. I interviewed him a couple
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: of times. I would go to the events. Once he won,
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: he actually made good on his promise. He removed the
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: deportation program and all of the Latinos were happy. They
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: saw that he made a promise and made.
• 32:43
  Speaker 5: Good, But Mario wasn't arrested in Gwinnett County. He was
• 32:48
  Speaker 5: picked up in the next county over, DeKalb. This wasn't
• 32:52
  Speaker 5: Sheriff Taylor's jurisdiction. And Mario found himself caught up in
• 32:56
  Speaker 5: exactly the kind of policy he was worried would ensnare
• 33:00
  Speaker 5: Latino immigrants who were arrested for nonviolent offenses, like being
• 33:04
  Speaker 5: a pedestrian on the roadway, obstruction of an officer, unlawful assembly.
• 33:11
  Speaker 5: All of these charges against Mario were dropped, by the way,
• 33:15
  Speaker 5: within a couple weeks. But in the meantime, ICE had
• 33:19
  Speaker 5: asked DeKalb County to hold Mario regardless, and they obliged.
• 33:24
  Speaker 5: Mario's attorney rushed to file a new motion, this time
• 33:27
  Speaker 5: with an immigration judge, to get Mario out. A bond
• 33:31
  Speaker 5: hearing is set for a few weeks later. And in
• 33:34
  Speaker 5: the midst of all of this, something especially odd happens.
• 33:39
  Speaker 5: Mario's lawyer, Giovanni Diaz, gets notified that Mario is being
• 33:43
  Speaker 5: hit with three additional misdemeanor charges, three traffic violations.
• 33:49
  Speaker 8: They claim he ran a red light. And the interesting
• 33:54
  Speaker 8: thing about that police report was that it was sworn out,
• 33:58
  Speaker 8: the narrative was written by the officer after his arrest
• 34:01
  Speaker 8: for traffic violations, for incidents that happened over a month ago.
• 34:05
  Speaker 5: Basically, police are claiming they have evidence that Mario ran
• 34:09
  Speaker 5: a red light, was using his phone and driving recklessly
• 34:13
  Speaker 5: some four weeks earlier. Though he hadn't been pulled over
• 34:17
  Speaker 5: at the time, he hadn't gotten a ticket. And now
• 34:21
  Speaker 5: the cops are supposedly just getting around to filing these
• 34:24
  Speaker 5: traffic charges after he's in jail already. It's suspicious. And
• 34:30
  Speaker 5: notably to Mario's lawyers, these charges appear after ICE has
• 34:35
  Speaker 5: gotten involved and declared they want Mario held.
• 34:39
  Speaker 8: The fact that warrants were sworn out after he was
• 34:42
  Speaker 8: arrested and after he was already in ICE custody.
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: It's unusual.
• 34:47
  Speaker 5: Tell me why that's concerning.
• 34:49
  Speaker 8: Because now they're heaping charges at him, right? Why did
• 34:53
  Speaker 8: they swear this warrant out closer to when the incident happened?
• 34:56
  Speaker 8: Why did they wait over a month to get these warrants?
• 35:02
  Speaker 9: Those charges were highly unusual.
• 35:04
  Speaker 5: This is another one of Mario's attorneys, Scarlett Kim. She's
• 35:08
  Speaker 5: a senior staff attorney with the ACLU.
• 35:11
  Speaker 9: Traffic violations of the kind that he was charged with
• 35:16
  Speaker 9: are normally the shoot on the spot. They're not the
• 35:18
  Speaker 9: types of violations that law enforcement officers go combing through
• 35:24
  Speaker 9: records to unearth and then issue warrants for. And there
• 35:28
  Speaker 9: was a kind of investigative report that was issued and
• 35:31
  Speaker 9: it described how law enforcement officers were combing through his
• 35:36
  Speaker 9: live streaming videos.
• 35:38
  Speaker 5: And that's how they unearthed these violations. The cops had
• 35:41
  Speaker 5: gone through Mario's social media in order to get dirt
• 35:46
  Speaker 5: on him, pouring through videos where he's filming law enforcement
• 35:50
  Speaker 5: officers to find a few moments where they say he
• 35:54
  Speaker 5: was driving recklessly.
• 35:56
  Speaker 9: These videos where they claim that he committed these traffic violations,
• 36:00
  Speaker 9: which also adds to just how highly unusual and suspect
• 36:05
  Speaker 9: they were. It was clear that they were looking to
• 36:08
  Speaker 9: charge him with something.
• 36:11
  Speaker 5: What was even more surprising, the police department that had
• 36:15
  Speaker 5: gone and done this, dug up these unusual charges on Mario,
• 36:20
  Speaker 5: was the Gwinnett County Sheriff's Office, the very same sheriff's
• 36:24
  Speaker 5: office that had given Mario an award just a year before.
• 36:29
  Speaker 5: The sheriff, who on his first day in office had
• 36:32
  Speaker 5: proudly ended a partnership between his department and ICE. a
• 36:36
  Speaker 5: sheriff's office that wasn't even involved in this incident, which
• 36:40
  Speaker 5: happened in a whole other county.
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: When they told me the Sheriff Aquanet presented charges against you,
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: I said, why? That shocked me.
• 36:47
  Speaker 6: Why?
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: Why were they doing this?
• 37:04
  Speaker 5: When Mario next went before a judge, this time in
• 37:08
  Speaker 5: immigration court, the judge granted Mario Bond, said he should
• 37:13
  Speaker 5: be released, that Mario wasn't a danger, not a flight risk, and, quote,
• 37:18
  Speaker 5: at the time of his alleged crimes, he was acting
• 37:21
  Speaker 5: as a journalist, and that he should be, quote, protected
• 37:24
  Speaker 5: by freedom of speech as detailed in the Constitution. Reporting
• 37:28
  Speaker 5: on ICE raids in the community, the judge continued, is
• 37:32
  Speaker 5: a national concern and many other journalists across the nation
• 37:35
  Speaker 5: are also reporting on the issue. But when Mario tried
• 37:39
  Speaker 5: to pay his bond, ICE wouldn't let him go.
• 37:43
  Speaker 9: The government refused on a really astonishing and unusual basis.
• 37:50
  Speaker 5: Mario's attorney, Scarlett Kim, at the ACLU, says ICE filed
• 37:54
  Speaker 5: an emergency motion to keep Mario behind bars.
• 37:58
  Speaker 9: It argued that The government was not going to release
• 38:01
  Speaker 9: him because his live streaming of essentially his reporting of
• 38:07
  Speaker 9: law enforcement activity was inherently dangerous.
• 38:23
  Speaker 5: Next time, Mario's longstanding beliefs, they crack. Do you still
• 38:30
  Speaker 5: think that ICE has a noble mission?
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: It's quite the opposite. That ended up being a lie.
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: Trump's promise, ICE's promise of clearing the country of criminals
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: and deporting the bad hombres, that was a lie. They
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: are removing people that had no criminal record, including myself.
• 38:54
  Speaker 7: So.
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: I don't think that anymore. They lied to us. They
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: lied to people.
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: Coming up next week, we'll have the rest of Sophie Cazas'
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: story about Mario Guevara as the government amps up its
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: attacks on him and hones in on his journalism. Here's
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: what we've heard so far from law enforcement about Mario's case.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: The Gwinnett County Sheriff did not respond to many of
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: our questions, but they confirmed that arrest warrants related to
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: traffic violations were obtained for Mario, quote, based on conduct
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: that was publicly observed during a live-streamed social media broadcast.
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: The Doraville police didn't respond to our questions about why
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: their officers arrested a reporter. And when we asked the
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: DeKalb County Sheriff's Office for details about the ICE detainer
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: on Mario... A public information officer wrote that their office, quote,
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: adheres strictly to established legal procedures in the detention and
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: release of individuals in its custody. But they said we'd
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: have to ask ICE for more specific information on Mario's case.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: And ICE did not respond to our repeated requests. If
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: you have a second, KCRW has a survey going about
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: Question Everything so we can learn more about what you
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: like or hate, I guess, about the show. If you
• 40:12
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• 40:16
  Speaker 1: There's a link in the show notes. And take the
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: Question Everything survey. Also, as always, I'm at brihreed on Instagram, B-R-I-H-R-E-E-D,
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: and also brihreed. 45 on Signal. Feel free to send me
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: tips at either of those places. Also, our newsletter, questioneverything.substack.com.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: Today's show was reported and produced by Sophie Kazis, with
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: support from Jen Kinney, Robin Simeon, and me, Jen, Robin,
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: and I edited the story. Robin, Simeon, and I are
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: the executive producers of Question Everything. Our team also includes
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: managing editor Kevin Sullivan, producer Zach St. Louis, contributing editor
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: Neil Drumming, and associate producer Kevin Shepard. Additional editing by
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: Sean Cole. This episode was fact-checked by Marisa Robertson-Texter and
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: Annika Robbins. Mixing and sound design by Brendan Baker. Our
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: music is by Matt McGinley. Thanks to Camilo Friedman and
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: Jose Baez, our tape-sinkers, our interpreters, Fernando Hernandez Becerra, Macarena Funes,
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: and Sebastian Riveros, whose voice you hear as Mario in
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: the story. Anna Oaks provided translation help, and thanks also
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: to Stephanie A. Inslee and Oliver Inslee of Inslee Law.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: Our partners at KCRW include Arnie Seipel, Tejal Ajmera, Natalie Hill,
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: and Jennifer Farrow. See you next week.