Latest / Chris Thrall's Bought the T-Shirt Podcast / International Drug Smuggler To Spiritual Master | Dicky East

Transcript

International Drug Smuggler To Spiritual Master | Dicky East · Chris Thrall's Bought the T-Shirt Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hello friends, I'm your host, christ Throw. I'm a former
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Ruleries commando.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: I've adventured for better and sometimes worse, across eighty countries
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: on all seven continents.
• 0:14
  Speaker 3: Welcome to the Port the t Shirt Podcast.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: Dickie, how are you sir?
• 0:27
  Speaker 4: Hell yeah, I'm good.
• 0:29
  Speaker 5: How are you doing?
• 0:29
  Speaker 6: Chris?
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: I'm phenomenal, mate, And that's because I'm talking to you.
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: Because let me.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Just have a look here at your website show people
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: at Home. Dickie East Friends at Home has written a
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: memoir called The Rocky Road, and it's all about, like
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: I say, how a turbulent childhood can leave you lead
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: you to a life of international travel, getting banged up,
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: being in Hong Kong, South America, all the things that
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: I've done, but ultimately leading to understand things like keem trails,
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: understand medical scams, why we shouldn't take can we say procedures,
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: and ultimately living a spiritual life. And Dickie's written a
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: book there it is The Rocky Road, which I cannot
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: wait to have a to have a read of. And mate,
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: there you go. Where are you in the world, Dickie,
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: I am in Rittensworth, Watford?
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: Is it in Watford?
• 1:38
  Speaker 4: Where are you?
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: Where are you mate?
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: I'm in Plymouth. I'm in the South.
• 1:44
  Speaker 4: Just yet.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: I was actually born born in Bromley, Southeast London.
• 1:50
  Speaker 7: But oh right, okay, yes, that's just north of London
• 1:52
  Speaker 7: really and.
• 1:55
  Speaker 4: It really is turning into a south It's a small
• 1:57
  Speaker 4: it's a small village really called Croxy Grin, but it's
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: like it's turned into a suburb of London. So it's
• 2:03
  Speaker 4: in the end twenty five.
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: So yeah, absolutely.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: Why did I think for some reason you're Australian or
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: is that just.
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: A lot A lot of people answer me they go,
• 2:14
  Speaker 4: oll where are you from? English people as well? I
• 2:18
  Speaker 4: go where I'm English? So I'm not quite sure.
• 2:22
  Speaker 7: Maybe it's just sort of like a neutral accent.
• 2:24
  Speaker 4: I'm not sure.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: So, you know, fascinating chat. It's always fascinated to chat
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: the people that have been in Hong Kong, because.
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: I I was.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: When I was in the Marines, I watched the John
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: Claude Van Dam film. He did a couple based in
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: Hong Kong. I don't know if it was Double Van
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: Dam or Double Impact or the the.
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: Blood blood Sport one. I think blood Sport as well.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: Anyway, what I'm getting at is there's an iconic scene
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: where his mentor his kind of step father type figure says,
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: you're a going a Hong Kong. And when my ma
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: and the Marines came up to me and said, Chris,
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: we're all going to Hong Kong for Christmas. We're getting
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: military indulgence flights for thirty quid? Do you want in?
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: I was like, do I want in? Put my name
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: down for that one?
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: Please?
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: Anyway, all the lads cried off to go and watch
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: you know videos with the missus and go down the
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: pub for their leave.
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: I'm like, no, I'll go Hong Kong on my own.
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: I don't care.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: I spent, Like I said, it was thirty quid and
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: I think I drank about sixty quids worth of British
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: Airways booze on the flight.
• 3:33
  Speaker 4: Well were they charging you, Chris?
• 3:35
  Speaker 7: Were they charging you for booths at the time of
• 3:37
  Speaker 7: the night.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: No, they weren't charging you. But the thing was I'd
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: only paid thirty quid for my ticket, so they clearly
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: didn't make any money off my passing. Sorry, I should
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: explain back. What the military do is they book They
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: have their own aircraft flying out to the military bases
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: around the world, which obviously are fewer and fewer now,
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: but you know, like Cypress Canada, all this kind of thing.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: And and back then, obviously Hong Kong was a British
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: British territory and what happened is on the ones where
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: they didn't have military aircraft, they just get a British
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: Airway spaces on their flight and they'd flog and the
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: spaces they couldn't fill, they'd flog to you just cheap
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: at chips. And like I say, back back then, I
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: was just like Stewart esque.
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: That's kind of another two beers and a whiskey please.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: It was just.
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: But sorry.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: The point I was just getting to is I saw
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: that John Claul van Domver, I just knew I had
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: to go to Hong Kong, and I just I didn't
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: want to live my.
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: Life.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: But Dickie, just take it from the beginning. You said
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: you lived in a street and you was like the
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: two roughest families and the police were knocking on the
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: door all the time.
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: Tell us about that.
• 4:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it in a set. And if you like,
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: the East lived around one side and the Smith's around
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: the other, and I would, but they were the Smiths
• 5:11
  Speaker 4: were fighters, you know, they were big men. You know,
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: they were at my brother's age, my brother being ten
• 5:16
  Speaker 4: years older. So I'm twenty and these guys are thirty.
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: But you yeah, it was a constant. It was a constant.
• 5:24
  Speaker 4: What it does, it goes. It goes back slightly further
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: than that to when my twin brother and I went
• 5:31
  Speaker 4: to senior school, and our brothers and sisters had all.
• 5:34
  Speaker 7: Gone through the same school, senior school.
• 5:36
  Speaker 4: And when we got there, what you had is supposedly
• 5:39
  Speaker 4: these very intelligent teachers that were worldly wise, if you like.
• 5:44
  Speaker 4: And as soon as we got there, all they did
• 5:46
  Speaker 4: was go, ah, the East boys.
• 5:49
  Speaker 7: And you go, what does that mean?
• 5:51
  Speaker 4: You know? And so he went about our business, you know,
• 5:54
  Speaker 4: going to class and constantly you go, oh, I hope
• 5:57
  Speaker 4: you're not as bad as the ones that come before you.
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: When they reiterate that and reiterate that, you know, Bernais
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: would tell you this, you know, propaganda. They're just and honestly,
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: and then your brain waise changed, and all of a
• 6:09
  Speaker 4: sudden you give them what they want. So by the
• 6:11
  Speaker 4: time we were like thirteen, we played havoc at school.
• 6:16
  Speaker 7: You know, it's just havoc. Then and we'd sort of
• 6:20
  Speaker 7: wanted to control our you look back, don't you go?
• 6:22
  Speaker 4: And I wanted to control my environment. So you was
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: in control, and clearly when I look back at it,
• 6:28
  Speaker 4: totally in control of the teachers completely didn't They didn't
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: know what to do with it. They wanted academic children
• 6:34
  Speaker 4: to teach. And these two were like going skitzo.
• 6:37
  Speaker 5: You know, and it was yeah, and then of course,
• 6:41
  Speaker 5: and then that just went on and on and on
• 6:43
  Speaker 5: and then became to scaley wags and thieves and nicking
• 6:46
  Speaker 5: stuff and fight in and then with that comes all
• 6:51
  Speaker 5: the police attention.
• 6:53
  Speaker 4: But I would say that in the village though, it
• 6:55
  Speaker 4: was a particular time when there seemed to be a
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: lot of boys around maybe well just a lot of
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: There was a lot of young people of that particular era.
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: Everyone's nicking everything, breaking into sheds and drinking, would pick
• 7:09
  Speaker 4: a cider, you know, and just just causing habit, you know,
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: So it wasn't sort of just us as a family,
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: you know that everyone's nicking stuff. But of course the
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: thing would always get pointed over here, Oh yeah, it
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: must be it must be these guys. So you know,
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: a as a as an education going up to when
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: I smuggled drugs, there's my apprenticeship. So my apprenticeship was there,
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: you know, it was all ready to go. It didn't
• 7:36
  Speaker 4: take me any encouragement to go, right, Okay, let's start
• 7:39
  Speaker 4: smuggling drugs or every world. It's just a no brain
• 7:43
  Speaker 4: really a far more interesting project than breaking into sheds
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: and nicking a few bits and pieces. So yeah, so yeah,
• 7:54
  Speaker 4: the whole street thing was funny. You must have seen that,
• 7:57
  Speaker 4: maybe Christ when you was growing up, there was always
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: a rough family.
• 8:00
  Speaker 7: Maybe you were from I don't know, and you.
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: Know, criking. No one wanted to deal with you. You know,
• 8:07
  Speaker 4: this eating, I don't know any quant with that. You know,
• 8:11
  Speaker 4: it came along, you know, just talking about out of trouble,
• 8:15
  Speaker 4: don't you.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we had we had a couple of literally feral
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: families growing up, and it was just funny things. We
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: turn up in the summer to go swimming at our
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: school because it we had a little swimming pool there.
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: And I remember one time there were no teachers and
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: this family they're just like, all it's just go and
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: pull the cover off ourselves. And I was, I was,
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: how brave are they? I would never do that. I
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: will get in trouble, and they just did not give
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: a you know what. And then later on one of
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: them got one of them got done for drunk drunk diving.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: Don't don't worry about the dog. One of them got
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: done for drunk driving and lost his license. And as
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: they were coming out of the pub one night, the
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: brothers that were like these, you know, handy lads, you
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: could say. The copper that arrested him, drove by, wound
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: his window down and went, oh, that's good to see
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: you walk in tonight.
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: They reached in the car, dragged him out of the window,
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: locked him in the boot of his own cop car,
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: drove him up into the nature, and tortured him all night.
• 9:32
  Speaker 4: Shouldn't well, it.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: Wasn't funny for me, Dicky, because i'd come back. I
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: just got back from Hong Kong, so I was still
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: in psychosis and mentally unwell from my crystal meth addiction,
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: and whilst working for the fourteen k there in Wanchai
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: as their nightclub dorman. On I'll ask you about this,
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: but in my book I call it Club Nemo, but
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: anyone who's been there knows it was Neptune's one and
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: two and one night I was in almost that situation
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: where I was really I was in fear for my life, mate,
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: you know. And so when I my dad retelling this
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: story because I was in psychosis, I thought my dad
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: was taking a piss out me. I think he was.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: He was trying to humiliate me. And I just you know,
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: I wasn't violent or nothing. I just picked up my
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: tray of dinner, just threw it all over the kitchen floor. Sorry,
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: I digress. So what what were things like at home?
• 10:32
  Speaker 4: You go when you wanted to talk about child when
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: you and I will explain something you about my childhood.
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: But the whole gig with my life is I never
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: carry my past with me, Chris, don't. I don't carry
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: it in a in a negative way.
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: Good.
• 10:49
  Speaker 4: You know. I could point at things and go, look,
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: you know this, this happened here, This happened here in
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: my past. But I never carry it with me. I'm
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: forward thinking, I get on you know if well, you'll
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: see when you read the book, you know there's a
• 11:04
  Speaker 4: lot of fooling overgoing.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: The only reason I asked Dickie is that a lot
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: of people don't make the connection between a turbulent childhood
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: and struggling on drugs and mental health domestic violet later
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: in life. And I'm saying that's one climbing everest in April.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: Come on, folks, let's start linking the two. This not
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: rocket science. We're losing a lot of veterans in the
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: community and no one is saying, I'm on a sec
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: We all had quite rough childhoods, didn't we, you know,
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: Or we had a father that was absent or didn't
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: love us enough or what. So that's the only reason
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: I asked, obviously, I asked that so people can understand
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: it and then heal it and move, you know.
• 11:48
  Speaker 4: And that's attractedy in Chris, that you decommissioned out of
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: the military, that there isn't a I was going to
• 11:58
  Speaker 4: say d programming, but not deprogramming.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: What would you call it when you rehabilitation to normalitation.
• 12:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah, where you'd see somebody who's qualified to talk to
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: you before you go back out into silly stream and
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: unravel that so the person can get on.
• 12:16
  Speaker 7: With this really weird thing because you know, I've.
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: Been institutionalized, so I understand the institutionalization. And you get
• 12:25
  Speaker 4: thrown into this thing called life, this world that you
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: thinks free and you realize when you get into it
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: it isn't really as all the rules and regulations, et cetera.
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: And in actual fact, it's quite claustrophobic because you realize
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: you've been craving for something where you've got all this
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: freedom and you can't see it. You've got too many rules. Yeah,
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: so that I find that tragic really that they don't
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: that they don't do that for ex Military.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: You've got to remember a lot of these professionals though,
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, three years in UNI isn't long enough to
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: make all these connections to key you know that I
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: can imagine.
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: I'm not talking.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: I'm obviously not not tarring every single professional. There's some
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: incredible professionals out there. But for the most part, if
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: you're if you're just dealing with PTSD, there's something you
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: experience as an adult, randomly out of the blue, or
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: or perhaps linked to something that happened to you in service.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: That's a tiny part of the jigsaw. Come on, you
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: know it's research has proven that you're far more likely
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: to leave the forces with PTSD if you had a
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: damaged childhood. And there's something called moral injury in battle
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: that's where you see something, you do something, you witness
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: something that then becomes hard to deal with when you
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: come back home. And statistically, the people that experience this
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: the most are those that have had damaged you know,
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: that have had the damaged childhood. So they guessing I'm
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: guessing because they're my is kind of you know, we're
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: all a bit sort of adhd aren't we. Our mind
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: is always always working, always kind of questioning and perhaps
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: blaming ourselves and this this kind of thing.
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: But interesting, and it's like you're compartmentalized and then you
• 14:14
  Speaker 4: come out and there's or not come out. Then you
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: have the trauma in the in the military, and it's
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: the trigger and it's the trigger and the compartmentalization opens
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: up and there's you know, Pandora's box really and fresens.
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: Your brain absolutely.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: But yeah, sorry, no, just back back to you.
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: So I'll ask you.
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: It's so child and if I if I look at
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: my child's being the runt of the litter, and like
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: I said, don't like this sound like I'm I'm crying
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: over something because I'm not. My twin brother is fifteen
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: minutes older, which was a very important seem to be
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: a very important thing while we were growing up. But
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: my father left when I think we were maybe about
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: four years old, so he left the woman with seven
• 14:59
  Speaker 4: children being gone. The problem is that as we were
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: growing up, there's obviously a lot of teasing going on
• 15:07
  Speaker 4: in a house seven, a lot of pecking order, bullying,
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: et cetera, just normal behavior.
• 15:13
  Speaker 7: But one of the things my mother did, which.
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: Was really a tragic mistake, was to say that my
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: dad had always said that my mother picked up the
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: wrong baby, and I wasn't his child. All that did
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: was fuel a situation until I was maybe about fourteen
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: or fifteen, where if anything happened in the house, you know,
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: with my brothers and sisters, it was pointed out that
• 15:37
  Speaker 4: I wasn't even a member of the family, and you go.
• 15:40
  Speaker 7: And then, of course when I look back on it.
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: I just think, you sick. You a bunch of sick people.
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: That's really sick doing that. What did you think you
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: were doing? So I get that and songs made up
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: about me and all manner of stuff, you know, and
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: which it's that's really odd behavior. Why would you behave
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: like that? But my mum fueled it. Unbeknown to her,
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: she fieled it by, yeah, by saying that I was
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: I wasn't even a member of the family.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, it's pretty Some of the behavior of parents
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: back then was they was pretty deluded, weren't they.
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, really, And then my mum got she basically
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: just dropped a guy who did become our He became
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: our stepdad, but she sort of married the gardener in
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: the end, the gardener came around Fred, and then she
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: married the gardener, and then it became our stepdad. And
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: but the powerhouse, if you like, in my with my
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: brother and sisters was my were my sisters, and of course,
• 16:38
  Speaker 4: and they would drive all sorts of vindictiveness towards this
• 16:44
  Speaker 4: guy called Fred, you know. And two even that was
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: just what I didn't understand that at all either, how
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: to to demoralize.
• 16:54
  Speaker 7: This guy, just demoralized him.
• 16:56
  Speaker 4: And I just it's a really odd even that's odd,
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: do you know I look back at it.
• 17:01
  Speaker 7: But yeah, so that's my childhood.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: Really.
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: I was teased endlessly, endlessly. It just went on endlessly.
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: And I think when I became aware of it, because
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: I became aware of it, I changed how I dealt
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: with it. Because did you.
• 17:17
  Speaker 7: Come from a big family, Chris, did you come from
• 17:19
  Speaker 7: a big family?
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: Two sisters, one brother, right, lots of step parents, lots.
• 17:27
  Speaker 7: Of step parents?
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: Right? Okay, So in our house, arguments were won by
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: volume and not content. Always by volume, and if the
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: volume didn't work, you got smacking, and you got smacking,
• 17:42
  Speaker 4: smacking the.
• 17:43
  Speaker 7: Teeth to prove the point that my argument is right and.
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: Your argument is wrong. So and after a lifetime with
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: the experience of that way you're growing up, you realize
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: that if you can argue with content and be articulate
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: and informed and then I just used to wipe the floor,
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: then it's all over all of everything.
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: Stocks the.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: Question for you, mate, So you're clearly on the spiritual
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: path or you certainly peeled off the layers because we're
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: born spiritual, aren't we? In society just like clags us
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: down with all this nonsense and you've got to peel
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: it off. Was an important part of you being able
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: to move forward and move away from let's just call it,
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: you know, a bit of a riotous lifestyle. Did you
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: have to forgive your did you have to understand your parents?
• 18:35
  Speaker 7: And then oh yeah, yeah, yeah my parents?
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I don't carry
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: anything negativity, have negative thoughts about my parents. I can
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: look at it and analyze it as what it is,
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: but I don't. I don't.
• 18:50
  Speaker 7: I'm not judgmental with it.
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: I don't. There's no judgmental at all. Yeah, I don't.
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 18:56
  Speaker 6: And my narm has passed away now and well, both
• 19:00
  Speaker 6: of them I passed away and talk about spiritual path
• 19:03
  Speaker 6: with So have you ever read the Tibetan Book of
• 19:05
  Speaker 6: Living and Dying?
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: No?
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: Heard about it quite a lot.
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: Now I would read it. It is a life changing
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: book when it comes to somebody dying. I can't even
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: describe how comfort is all powerful it is to get
• 19:24
  Speaker 4: you to understand what goes on in the dying process.
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: It's an extrawning book. So when my parents both die.
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: When my dad died, I was the only person with it,
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: and I did a whole Buddhist thing.
• 19:34
  Speaker 7: For him, which comes out it's a better and big
• 19:36
  Speaker 7: good of living and dying.
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: So to allow his soul to elevate out of his
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: system and go, I did a whole meditation thing for
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: an hour. I sat with him in a ward with
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: curtains around in the most I don't know what you
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: would call it, it's not a nice environment to pass
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: away in.
• 19:58
  Speaker 7: And then with my mum, I did the same process.
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: I was the only person when she passed away, and
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: I did the same process with her. And so I
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: took that as an honorable position to be in. I
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: was really honored. It didn't didn't make me cry, and
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: I was really honored in a sense. I felt like
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: they'd ask me to be there to help them go.
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: So I've explained that to a couple of I used
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: to work for men Cap and the girls. The men
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: Cap would go, are you all right? And I go,
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: whoa hold on? Hold on, I'm fine, I'm fine.
• 20:30
  Speaker 7: You know, there's no no. I'm quite comfortable with death.
• 20:34
  Speaker 7: If you're not, that's for you to deal with.
• 20:36
  Speaker 4: But I'm not. I'm not uncomfortable with death. Chris. You
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: know you where You've got me? Going somewhere better than
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: this Way's it's the only way I can look at it. Listen,
• 20:49
  Speaker 4: if if, if you believe in reincarnation, and you reincarnate
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: and learn lessons. The last time that I reincarnated, I
• 20:58
  Speaker 4: don't know where it was, but I didn't a very
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: good job and they sent me here. Do you look
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: at That's how I look at it. I think, God,
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: really am I sweat? Sweat? What do you reckon?
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: I was going to say fuck yeah, but I people,
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: I promise people, I'm going to try and stop swearing
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: because I.
• 21:18
  Speaker 7: Throw the odd one in there, because I really fucked
• 21:20
  Speaker 7: up last time.
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I found up and they sent me here. So
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: if you're going to suck up again and send it
• 21:25
  Speaker 4: back there as well, So yeah, here I go. I'm
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: not coming back here.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: By the way, what makes you wonder what Sadik Khan
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: did in a previous life, doesn't it? He must have
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: been doing stuff with donkeys, you know what I mean?
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: And like this is his pennance, naughty boy, leave the
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: donkeys alone, sud come on.
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: In a perpetual cycle, mate, I think he owns donkeys,
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: doesn't it?
• 21:51
  Speaker 7: Right now he's got a donkey's hen trip.
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: Oh there you go, there you go?
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: So yeah, friends at home, I'll try and remember to
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: put a link for the Tibetan Book of Living and
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: Dying below the podcast. You can grab yourself a copy
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: alongside Dicky's wonderful book which I've been showing here. Lovely cover, mate,
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: I love the simplicity of it.
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah, hear something how I got back together? Or you
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: want to talk about the Well's The cover is quite
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: interesting because just to jump in there, because I was
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: informed that if you wanted to do a cover for
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: a book, which you will understand now because because because
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: you published yourself.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: Published well, I was traditionally published by two publishers, sorry,
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: three publishers, one in Hong Kong, two in London. And
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: then to be completely frank Dickie, I thought I had
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: such a bad time of it. I genuinely think publishing
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: is legalized criminality. That I founded a company called Earth.
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: Books, right, so.
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: You, I thought you, But it's.
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: Not surf Books, is me?
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: But I had two three other companies before one still
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: publishes my memoir in Hong Kong. Very nice chap called
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: Pete Spurrier, who owns Blacksmith Books. He gave me my
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: first publishing deal and we were we were the best
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: seller over there, which is always a nice, nice thing
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: thing to achieve when you've been chronically mentally unwell. And no,
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: I looked at it, I thought, you know what, I
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: don't want the headache of dealing with like what were
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: like legalized criminal I mean I was getting sorry friends
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: at home. But since Dicky asked and mays were explained,
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: I was getting commissioned checks for like twenty five quid
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: for a year, and I thought, hang on a set,
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: are you telling me? Like I personally, I couldn't sell
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: twelve books in a year, and through my own company,
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: where I can have a two quid markup, I'd make
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: that twenty four quid like in a day. So I
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: sacked them all off mate, started my own company, Surf Books,
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: never looked back. Would recommend any author does the same,
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: because it's nice in that seeing your book on the
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: bestseller list and all that sort of stuff, But it's
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: even nicer having complete autonomy and control over your over
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: your artistic, artistic work.
• 24:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 24:27
  Speaker 7: I didn't realize writing was artistic. It's quite naive.
• 24:30
  Speaker 4: I know, you know you get to the same and
• 24:32
  Speaker 4: that's quite naive, But it is artistic. I didn't realize.
• 24:36
  Speaker 4: And of course, now dealing with the book world, if
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: you like publishing world, the snobbery, if you're not, it's
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: it's one of those things as well. If you're not
• 24:45
  Speaker 4: in the gain, you're not in the gain.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: Well start, I started writing my book in with paints
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: and brushes, you know, because I took the art, the
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: art side really seriously. And then one of my marine
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: buddies said, Chris, you don right like that. You got
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: used crayons.
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: So it's it says to tell you about that cover.
• 25:05
  Speaker 4: Then just the quick one on when I researched it, it said, oh,
• 25:09
  Speaker 4: you've got to go to the professional designers and all
• 25:13
  Speaker 4: of this sort of codspond it's it's all, it's all bullshit,
• 25:17
  Speaker 4: all of this bullshit.
• 25:18
  Speaker 7: So I went to see my friend's dor.
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: I called my friend's door, but she is a friend,
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: and I said to her, can you paint me this picture?
• 25:26
  Speaker 4: So I have this this piece of art in my
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: treatment room and I said, so can you paint me
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: this picture? And I described that book cover and that's
• 25:36
  Speaker 4: what she came back with, and I said, yeah, that's it.
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: And then my son did the graphics on the did
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: all graphics on it. That's then there's the book cover.
• 25:44
  Speaker 4: And I just go and if you look at it,
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: it's like the book itself. I think it's simplistic. It's
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: what it is, that's all. It's just simplistic. The book's
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: really simplistic as well, you know. And I just go
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: you're all full of shit. And and also I will
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: say this, Chris, when I by all accounts you, if
• 26:02
  Speaker 4: you want an agent, you send a manuscript to one
• 26:05
  Speaker 4: hundred agents and maybe maybe one will get back to
• 26:10
  Speaker 4: you in three or four months if they think you're worthy.
• 26:13
  Speaker 4: So I send it off to three. I think there
• 26:16
  Speaker 4: was one that I did want to represent me, but
• 26:19
  Speaker 4: I sent it off to three and then said to them,
• 26:23
  Speaker 4: you've got four weeks.
• 26:24
  Speaker 7: If you don't come back to.
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: Me, I don't want you to represent them I'm talking
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: to but you say, it's your creativity. And then what
• 26:31
  Speaker 4: they want to do is take it from you. And
• 26:34
  Speaker 4: as someone said to me the other day, if they
• 26:37
  Speaker 4: take it, they go to the publishers.
• 26:38
  Speaker 7: The publishers will take all of the.
• 26:40
  Speaker 4: Creativity out of your book, because they've got to that
• 26:44
  Speaker 4: editor has to justify their position, so they will take
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: your finished manuscript that is quite acceptable, just needs a
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: couple of little edits for punctuation. But won't they take
• 26:54
  Speaker 4: the personality? And that's why the bookshelters so full of mundane.
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: The most mundane book. Can't find a book that's worth reading.
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: You know, they're so mundane. And I go all right,
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: that's that's why. And now did you did you know
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: this that a lot of the top authors now are
• 27:11
  Speaker 4: self publishing their own books they don't want to deal
• 27:14
  Speaker 4: with the publishers.
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: Absolutely?
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, once once you you know you're established a bit
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: is it's clear clearly way forward. The only sort of
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: slight downside is I used to get an awful lot dicky.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: People asked me, Chris, would you read my book? And
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: I didn't have the art to tell him it was
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: I'm trying not to swear it was after you know,
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: it was shite. And and here's the thing. What's the
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: thing here? Is it like anyone can write a book
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: and get published, so your four year old can do
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: some stuff with crayons and that, and or is it
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: supposed to be that there's an acknowledged kind of benchmark
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: for the art level and skills you're supposed to achieve
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: to put a book out. And I'm not judging on that.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: I see how much writing a book means to people.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: I also see different stuff, like some people they write
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: their book, it goes off the publisher and they don't
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: care what the publisher. They're just so like enraptured with
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: getting it publishing, and I'm like, I'm never like that.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: I'm on the editor's back and no, you can put
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: that joke back in mate, My my marine buddies will
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: find that hilarious. I don't care about anyone else and
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: know that word there doesn't don't change it to that.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: It's never meant to mean that. It's it's a unique
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: word that I made up or something. Anyway, it's a
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: funny old thing. But Dickie a lovely book cover. Like
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: I say, friends at Home, there's a link below. It
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: really does make you want to read that. And I
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: wish I'd probably gone for more that kind of style
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: on my Eating Smoke memoir, because Eating Smoke was a
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: story of a lot young man who really didn't find
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: himself in Hong Kong, or found a bit of himself
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: in Hong Kong. And I did work for the Hong
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: Kong Triads. I was the dorman in Neptune's and that's
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: just a fact. But because the book was published on
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: the back of that, it gave all the kind of
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: want to be gangsters and thugs out there. Oh, this
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: guy thinks he's a triad, you know, And like I'd
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: never said that of course, I'm not going to say
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: something I never was.
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: It was ridiculous.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: The value in it is I wrote it from perspective
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: of somebody in psychosis. So you're reading a book completely
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: explains madness and how it sets in from the perspective
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: of someone that's mad.
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: There you go, folks.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: There's a link below if you want to grab a
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: copy of any of my I've got three guys.
• 29:52
  Speaker 4: I started reading it. It came the other day I
• 29:55
  Speaker 4: read brilliant, so I'm intrigued.
• 29:58
  Speaker 7: Of course, you're talking Monkok and Larva Dara and.
• 30:03
  Speaker 4: Chunking Matches, which is of course anyone that's anyone that's
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: been to Hong Kong and not stayed in the Orient Hotel,
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: nursed chunkin mentions. What Chunkin mentions is where in the world, right, Chris,
• 30:18
  Speaker 4: great food in the.
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: Great drugs in there?
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: Mate?
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: Is that what you meant to say?
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: So, yeah, sorry, Chris. I won't go back to something
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: that I wrote on the back of this book, which
• 30:31
  Speaker 4: obviously I employed an editor so I had total control
• 30:34
  Speaker 4: over what was being edited out or not. But on
• 30:37
  Speaker 4: the back she did say to me, we might want
• 30:39
  Speaker 4: to take this section off. We want to big the
• 30:41
  Speaker 4: book up and not be negative. Because on the back
• 30:44
  Speaker 4: of the book, if you if you've read the second paragraph,
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: it says, if you're a literally snort, put it back
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: on the shelf. I don't want you to read it.
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: I don't want you, as a literary snort, to pick
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: over and so there should be a full stop there
• 30:59
  Speaker 4: and think that's in the right tense start or put
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: you back. Then, if you can't read a book and
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: enjoy it, don't bother reading. Don't even know why you're reading.
• 31:08
  Speaker 4: To you, Chris, sit back and enjoy the book. Books
• 31:11
  Speaker 4: about enjoyment. It's a wonderful, wonderful thing. Yeah, sit back
• 31:16
  Speaker 4: and enjoy it. So I wrote that, and she said
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: to me, or maybe we should take it off. I
• 31:20
  Speaker 4: think she thought I had a selling technique and I
• 31:23
  Speaker 4: didn't have a cent. It wasn't about I meant what
• 31:25
  Speaker 4: I mean it. I don't want you to read it.
• 31:28
  Speaker 4: Put it back on the shelf and go over there
• 31:30
  Speaker 4: to Charles Dickens.
• 31:31
  Speaker 7: See if you can get on with that. You know,
• 31:32
  Speaker 7: it's load of old toffee.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: So Dickie, I'm really keen to hear your story. Do
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: you remember your first fist fight?
• 31:43
  Speaker 4: Probably not actually because I used to myself and my
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: twin brother thought from the day we were born, I
• 31:51
  Speaker 4: mean proper, you know, we poke.
• 31:53
  Speaker 7: Each other's eyes out and smash the teeth.
• 31:56
  Speaker 4: And that went on till we was into seeing his
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: or when we got halfway through a senior school, that
• 32:02
  Speaker 4: sort of stopped and we respected each other and sort
• 32:04
  Speaker 4: of loved each other really and realized that we were
• 32:07
  Speaker 4: a unit. Then he became the twins really so. But
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: at this fight, I do remember. I do remember being
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: at school and maybe I was about fourteen maybe, and
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: there was the big guy in the year, the big
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: guy being the bully, and he had a big mate
• 32:24
  Speaker 4: and they used to go around bullying. And I said
• 32:27
  Speaker 4: to my mate, I'm going to punch his I'm going
• 32:29
  Speaker 4: to punch his teeth and you know, and this bully
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: came walking along in the playground and my mate went, yeah,
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: Rich Reckons, he's going to smack you. No, no, you know,
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: I was just talking about him, really was I Did
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: I really want to fight him? Not really?
• 32:46
  Speaker 7: He was a right one. I was small and he
• 32:48
  Speaker 7: was six foot really, you know.
• 32:50
  Speaker 4: And anyway, he.
• 32:51
  Speaker 7: Goes, oh, yeah, you know, grahabs me. You know, one
• 32:54
  Speaker 7: of those sort of wrestling type things.
• 32:56
  Speaker 4: And a teacher came along, the sports teacher, to take
• 33:00
  Speaker 4: that up in the field. And I thought, and I
• 33:04
  Speaker 4: don't know who you can relate to this Christ, but
• 33:06
  Speaker 4: I felt him when he was on me, and he
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: had old of my he had old of my shirt.
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: And the teacher said, take up the field. And I
• 33:13
  Speaker 4: thought he ain't very strong, is he? He had old
• 33:16
  Speaker 4: of me, and I thought he was a weakling. I
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: got him up the field and came the kick in,
• 33:20
  Speaker 4: then came then came back into the school because the
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: big you know, with the big all the kids, you know,
• 33:26
  Speaker 4: you all want to get into the fire. So this
• 33:28
  Speaker 4: great big crowd round us while we had the punch up,
• 33:32
  Speaker 4: and then all the teachers came up and got dissipated.
• 33:35
  Speaker 4: In my wisdom, then I would have got my mate
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: and said he I'll come up to this class. I
• 33:39
  Speaker 4: went up to the class where these two were in
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: a class at lunch time on their own, and I said, right, okay,
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: then you too, I'm going to take you both on together.
• 33:48
  Speaker 4: Do you too fancy that?
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: Then?
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: As in money, two of them, I offered them both out.
• 33:54
  Speaker 4: No rich, no, no, And I thought, oh yeah, that's
• 33:57
  Speaker 4: an ego and put and now he was indition. Now
• 34:00
  Speaker 4: he wasn't the alpha kid at school. He was nothing
• 34:04
  Speaker 4: natural effect, it is very weak. And what he did
• 34:06
  Speaker 4: was intimidate everyone with his heart. He was pathetic.
• 34:09
  Speaker 7: So that was yet I was suppose, but potentially that
• 34:12
  Speaker 7: could have been the first sort of real fight.
• 34:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah, go beating the bully brother.
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: Is your brother still with us?
• 34:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 34:19
  Speaker 7: My roller is yeah, yeah, yeah, but he's much figger
• 34:22
  Speaker 7: than me.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: Next time you see him right, casually want wonder pass
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: and backhand him in the balls and just say, let
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: your guard down. That's what my son does to me,
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: right when you're not expecting it. He goes, let your
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: guard down, Dad. So let's get on. And what I'm
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: keen to get onto. I mean the whole criminality thing
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: that seems to have changed these days, doesn't it.
• 34:51
  Speaker 7: It doesn't mean it's not a nice environment.
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: Well, it was a rite of passage back when we
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: were growing up that you went out and robbed not
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: not everybody, and I absolutely in admiration for people that
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: didn't go down that path, but definitely it seemed to
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: be a thing that you went out and robbed people,
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: and your crimes got got more and more, can we say,
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: until the point where you'd be facing some serious prison
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: time if a court convinced also Chris, I would say.
• 35:21
  Speaker 4: You get to particular point where you see where your
• 35:24
  Speaker 4: moral line is if you like it morals or ethic
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: to just think, oh.
• 35:29
  Speaker 7: No, I can't. I could never burgle the house.
• 35:31
  Speaker 4: I did all this other stuff and it felt like
• 35:33
  Speaker 4: an infringement on someone's frive the scene, And that was
• 35:36
  Speaker 4: my line. Do you know what I mean?
• 35:38
  Speaker 7: You sort of elevating yourself with bigger crime, bigger.
• 35:41
  Speaker 4: Crime, and came to burgling. I thought, oh, I don't
• 35:43
  Speaker 4: like that, And there's the proof that I'm not a
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: psychopath because I had empathy for the people that live
• 35:51
  Speaker 4: in the.
• 35:52
  Speaker 7: House, to see what I mean.
• 35:54
  Speaker 4: So yeah, go on there going that write a passage anywhere,
• 35:57
  Speaker 4: you know, fighting in the pub and licking everything.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: So how did you How did your life progress?
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: Then?
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: Did you get a job in the in England? And
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: then think how are you going to go traveling?
• 36:07
  Speaker 4: Well? Well, because my brother day when you read the book,
• 36:11
  Speaker 4: you'll se so Dave was ten years older big brother.
• 36:14
  Speaker 4: What all the reputation and the families based on was
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: this biker that used to go around Robin jog dealers
• 36:20
  Speaker 4: and beating.
• 36:21
  Speaker 7: People up, et cetera. And he was a big bodybuilder
• 36:23
  Speaker 7: and it was all it was.
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: All based around him. So really we had this adoration
• 36:29
  Speaker 4: which which should never be there. Really you should never
• 36:32
  Speaker 4: you should never put anyone on a pedestal. It's not
• 36:34
  Speaker 4: it's not healthy to anyone. And so when we got.
• 36:37
  Speaker 7: To sixteen, but I did, I went and got a
• 36:40
  Speaker 7: job as a paint sprayer.
• 36:41
  Speaker 4: I loved it. And when I look back at that
• 36:44
  Speaker 4: situation where I was a paint sprayer at sixteen, went
• 36:48
  Speaker 4: to the garage and the guy had me, I know,
• 36:51
  Speaker 4: spot welding, and people don't know what spotwelding is. It's
• 36:53
  Speaker 4: a very simple procedure. But he had me spot welding
• 36:57
  Speaker 4: on the first day I went to work. And then
• 37:00
  Speaker 4: in an know, six months only spraying, I was spraying class.
• 37:04
  Speaker 7: You know, I could see now on reflection that.
• 37:08
  Speaker 4: I was obviously quite adapted learning and he allowed me
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: to run. And then you go to the pub for
• 37:16
  Speaker 4: most of the day and leave me in the bun
• 37:17
  Speaker 4: shop and I'll do everything. And so I did do
• 37:21
  Speaker 4: that for sort of two and a half three years,
• 37:24
  Speaker 4: and then after that, for some reason, I sort of
• 37:29
  Speaker 4: got I don't know, I think my mates were all unemployed,
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: and I fancied that, you know, yeah, I suppose if
• 37:35
  Speaker 4: I look back at it, it's quite a blank airy
• 37:37
  Speaker 4: really to why I did. I think it was because
• 37:39
  Speaker 4: they were unemployed and doing nothing all day and chirping
• 37:42
  Speaker 4: all about out grade it was, but it wasn't really.
• 37:45
  Speaker 4: It was boring and all we did was get up
• 37:47
  Speaker 4: to mischief. And then I think about a year, a
• 37:51
  Speaker 4: year or so of that, and with my brother traveling
• 37:55
  Speaker 4: to India for ten years, it began to and from
• 37:58
  Speaker 4: India for ten years. Sometimes he'd spent two years there,
• 38:01
  Speaker 4: sometimes a year, someone six months that, you know, I thought, wow,
• 38:06
  Speaker 4: you know what a travel you know, and I was
• 38:08
  Speaker 4: it didn't affect many people around, didn't affect my brothers
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: and sisters. But I was like, wow, yeah, I fancy that.
• 38:15
  Speaker 4: And then if you like, but he used to smuggle
• 38:19
  Speaker 4: drugs back, used to smoke smuggle smack back into the country.
• 38:23
  Speaker 4: And then I was talking to him, being a bit
• 38:25
  Speaker 4: of the scally way and looking at money, and I
• 38:28
  Speaker 4: spoke to him about the the profit he was making
• 38:32
  Speaker 4: on a secret. I just thought, wow, if you actually
• 38:35
  Speaker 4: head screwed on it. I could be a millionaire by
• 38:37
  Speaker 4: the time that's twenty one. That ain't rocket science. And
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: then and that was it, you know, off, I went
• 38:43
  Speaker 4: to India on this wild crusade to start smuggling drugs,
• 38:48
  Speaker 4: which was but you know, and you could you could
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: look at this again, Chris. And then and of course,
• 38:56
  Speaker 4: and then I got caught. I got caught, not not
• 38:59
  Speaker 4: on this one, but sometimes down line, got caught. If
• 39:02
  Speaker 4: I hadn't got caught, I would have almost certainly turned
• 39:05
  Speaker 4: into a junkie. So I do see that avenue. That avenue.
• 39:08
  Speaker 7: Listen.
• 39:08
  Speaker 4: Anyone that messes around with therapy, listen, you mess about
• 39:11
  Speaker 4: with that, it is almost inevitable that you will start
• 39:15
  Speaker 4: sampling your product. Inevitable you start wandering down there, and
• 39:19
  Speaker 4: then you think, oh, that's quite nice, and all of
• 39:21
  Speaker 4: a sudden, quite nice comes a habit and it's not nice.
• 39:25
  Speaker 4: It's a very It is a not nice drug, isn't Chris.
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: The only way I can describe a not nice drug.
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: I know you with crystal meth, But the smack thing,
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: I don't know, do you know it? I think it
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: runs off with his soul, Chris. I think it's a
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: devil drug that runs off with his soul.
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I in Hong Kong. It's so readily available, and
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: it's absolutely pure, none of this at all, right, and
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: it's China white, so it's a verry. It's almost like
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: what it's almost like what you'd expect to get from
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: a pharmacist if the pharmacist did smack right. But over
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: there the only time, friends, we're not promoting substance use
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: here at all. We're just explaining our stories, all of
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: which led to some severe consequences. But let's just talk
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: about towl campowder instead. The taw campowder over there, it
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: made you feel dirty and grungy. And the only time
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: it was actually bloody, how really nice, was on a
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: comedown after the club from the night before. That was
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: just I don't want to try and sell it to anyone,
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: but you can see what I'm trying to say. Where
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: it got you're up like this and that would just
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: come down like a lily. But where it got me, Dicky,
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: was paint prescription painkillers. Twenty years later, there's me and
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: chronic pain from a broken back, and the doctor came
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: in and she did the right thing. She saw me
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: I'd been in bed for six months.
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: I couldn't move.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: I was pee in a bucket and she was like,
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: you're a grown man. Why hasn't your doctor prescribed you
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: proper paint. I said, because he's a dick. Dick's not swearing,
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: is it no? And she immediately prescribed me some oxy codone,
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: and within five minutes I was up dancing the bloody
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: tango down the hallway.
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: It was amazing.
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: And then I started washing it down with you know,
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: rum whiskey, super strength lag and anything just to kind
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: of it just become that addictive pattern of waking up
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: in the morning, first of all, having to take it
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: to do the withdrawal since you know, so you didn't
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: go into withdrawal, which you already started to, and then
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: just getting like a real buzz on for the day.
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: And I'm not bigging it up because it's absolutely stupid.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: And eventually I was so controlled by the devil. There's
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: never a better example. If we're going to talk metaphorical
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: here of the devil controlling you, then through that stuff,
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: it is evil personified. It actually dictates what you have
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: to do. The other stuff you can go. I'm just
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: going to go to sleep for three days. I'm going
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: to feel absolute pants for a while, but then I'm
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: going to get up and go about my day.
• 42:30
  Speaker 4: No, not with it.
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: I had long term withdrawal for two years after. That's
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: how much damage it had done to my brain. I
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: didn't have a lot of brain to damage, Dickie, do
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying. But the beauty of it
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: was is that's how I came across John Saint Julian,
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: who's a brilliant YouTuber. I hope he's well, he's been
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: quite ill lately, and I come across because I was
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: looking at water fasting. I come across his video and
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: I realized that what fasting in itself is pretty much
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: your first bottle stop shop for any illness is do
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: what the mammals do when they get ill. Stop eating, drink,
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: just drink a bit of you know, just flush your
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: body through with water. And that really helped. On top
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: of having a sauna in the morning, or going for
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: a swim and having a sauna, it really it stopped
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: my brain from absolutely trying to destroy me. My brain
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: was just ringing like tinatous, like you never believe, you know.
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: But the point I just wanted to make here is
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: there's everyone out there thinking that street level. I don't
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: usually use the term smack because it's usually used derogatory
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: to describe people that are having drug problems. But people
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: think that, you know, smacks the bad one. No, it's
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: the stuff that they prescribe legally that will knock you
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: on your ass. It's so much stronger than what you're
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: going to buy on the street. It's pure and it
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: will get you right.
• 44:03
  Speaker 4: And also and also Chris, I would say this, you know,
• 44:05
  Speaker 4: most of them are the synthetic opiates, and they're not natural.
• 44:09
  Speaker 4: And that's one of the big bounds with what they're
• 44:14
  Speaker 4: giving you. They're giving you a synthetic opiate. Your your
• 44:17
  Speaker 4: system can't even can't keep coke with this foreign because
• 44:21
  Speaker 4: it's so foreign. Now you could say smacks foreign, but
• 44:24
  Speaker 4: it isn't particularly sort of dried out. It's a dried
• 44:27
  Speaker 4: out sort of way powder if you like. You know,
• 44:30
  Speaker 4: but these synthetics. I saw it with my mum, you know,
• 44:34
  Speaker 4: they gave her a synthetic opia. Seem to seeing cats
• 44:38
  Speaker 4: flying through the air, all manner of stuff. You know,
• 44:41
  Speaker 4: I just thought, what the what the Jesus do.
• 44:43
  Speaker 7: You think you're doing.
• 44:44
  Speaker 4: You know, you're insane, completely insane. That took you two
• 44:49
  Speaker 4: years today, Chris to get off of that.
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'd be a liar mate if I wasn't
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: to say it's got. It's been quite problematic. I'm not
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: mincing my way. Quite problematic in my life.
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: It meant that I could look back on at least
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: thirty five years of my life and think, do you
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: know what? I've been off my head almost every day
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: with you know an Now, alcohol being equally as bad,
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: but there's something the thing with alcohol unless you're absolutely dependent,
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: and you could risk killing yourself by stopping drinking. You know,
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: we used to have to warn people not to do
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: this when I was a substance misuse specialist. If people,
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: you know, if you're on say, thirteen cans a super
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: strong lager a day, you don't just want to stop
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: that behavior. You know, don't go cold turkey, just you
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: got to cut that down first, right, that can really
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: end badly. But but essentially you can cold turkey a
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: lot of alcohol and just have that horrible hangover. It
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: probably gonna last three days and boom, there you go.
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: You can do that with that other stuff it becomes
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: an absolute campaign project to get off. I was getting So.
• 46:03
  Speaker 4: What what's what's going on there? You know what I mean,
• 46:06
  Speaker 4: don't you know? So you can have a bit you
• 46:10
  Speaker 4: want me, you want me type of type of there's
• 46:12
  Speaker 4: a conversation coming out of the drug.
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, really simple. It's that when you have a traumatized
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: childhood and you you know, you've been through stuff as
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: a baby and a toddler which no other adult has
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: to go through, you're in flight or fight or freeze
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: mode from the beginning of your life, right, something that
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: most people. This is why I said when do you
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: have your first fist fight? Because most people don't go
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: through that until they have their first scrap or they're
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: in a road accident at like thirty five or something
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: and they literally piss their pants like a baby because there,
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: you know, I say, welcome the real life. Like some
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: of us went through that trauma as babies. Now do
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: you sort of get it a bit? And as a
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: rest result, when when I'm in any sort of you know,
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: when I face kind of everyday stress, all of that
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: trauma is because you can't deal with it as a
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: baby or a toddler. It buries it in your body.
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: Your brain hasn't developed enough for it. For your amygdala.
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: Who's your librarian to go, oh, bab file there, let's
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: just store that away there, that's gone here and that's history.
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: Forget about it. Oh little you know, let's stop. Your
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: brain can't do that, so that trauma it goes.
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: Oh, I got these files. Can't deal with it.
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: I'm only a toddler. Put it in a body. And
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: that's why you this is why people with ADHD and
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: everything just grow up different, different, you know. And as
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: an adult, as soon as you face a threat could
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: be you know, somebody in the workplace, a road rage, boom.
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: All of that trauma is like it comes surging back
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: out the body and the first thing your mind thinks
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: say is well, let's self medicate it. You know, why
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: would I feel this under And it doesn't have to
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: be a massivety situated.
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: I could just be sat.
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: Here board on an afternoon, you know, and just want
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: to change my state. I want that blissful state that
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: it's like being back in the womb and I can
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: nip down the you know, the test goes down the road,
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: getting ten cans of larger for like six quid or
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: seven quid or whatever it's been over the years, and oh,
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: I've got some of that stuff in the bathroom cabinet.
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: Let's sail away.
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: What's that song?
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: You know, sail away on memory bliss for the afternoon
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: and then you wake up, you wake up the next
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: day and you think, do you know what I can
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: get away of doing that all day to day as well,
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: because you only start getting a withdrawal after about three
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: three days, and then you hit that third day and
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: you're like, ah, fourth day tomorrow, that's withdrawal.
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: That's when it's.
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: Done enough changes to my brain that when I try
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: and come off it, I'm going to suffer because my
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: brain will be lacking that chemical. And then you do
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: that fourth day and that set. Then you're like fifth day,
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: six day, a year and a half later, two years later,
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: still you're still stuck on that hamster wheel. Really well, yeah,
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: I've lived a life. I've lived my life. I'm going
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: to rock up at the grave well worn out.
• 49:29
  Speaker 4: Because using that example there, when I did try smack
• 49:35
  Speaker 4: a couple of times, Okay, the first time I used it,
• 49:39
  Speaker 4: what it did? It took away. We're born with lots
• 49:44
  Speaker 4: of worries lots of calculations going on and what about this,
• 49:47
  Speaker 4: what about that? And what it did? It took away
• 49:51
  Speaker 4: all of that, all of that worry, what I would
• 49:54
  Speaker 4: call worry, all of that contradiction in your head. And
• 49:57
  Speaker 4: I thought, oh, and you know, I would touch it again.
• 50:00
  Speaker 4: I wouldn't touch it because it wasn't real. And I
• 50:04
  Speaker 4: understood it even when I was younger. It wasn't real.
• 50:06
  Speaker 4: And I live with myself that has concerns and worries.
• 50:12
  Speaker 4: We all do it. It's a normal there when you
• 50:15
  Speaker 4: see these gurus and they go all and you meditate,
• 50:19
  Speaker 4: and this is as bullshit. They've got as many worries
• 50:22
  Speaker 4: as you don't worry about that, or maybe not as many,
• 50:25
  Speaker 4: and they're able to cope with them much better. It
• 50:27
  Speaker 4: doesn't mean they don't.
• 50:28
  Speaker 7: Have the question in mind, because if you don't have a.
• 50:31
  Speaker 4: Question in mind, potentially then I would go to the
• 50:34
  Speaker 4: bars and say you don't have a soul, because what's questioning,
• 50:38
  Speaker 4: The thing that's questioning is you, not all the other stuff.
• 50:41
  Speaker 4: It's the thing that questions and asks the questions. There
• 50:44
  Speaker 4: you are. You're not the space suit and you're not
• 50:46
  Speaker 4: the weird, funky thing that's talking chattering.
• 50:49
  Speaker 7: You're the thing that's observing it.
• 50:51
  Speaker 4: And I could see that even when I was young,
• 50:53
  Speaker 4: and I wouldn't touch it because I just thought that's
• 50:55
  Speaker 4: not real. I can't. Yeah, and you do a good
• 50:58
  Speaker 4: description there.
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: Yes, Dicky, just bear with me here, brother. I just
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: want to give a say a couple of things. Friends
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: at home, what a cracking podcast. I hope you like
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: the banter back and forth and the sharing of stories,
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: which is what we do on this show. If I
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: could ask you please to like and subscribe. Also, can
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: I say a massive thank you to everyone that supports
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: us on by becoming a YouTube member or Patreon or
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: locals or on buy me a coffee for as little
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: as one ninety nine a month.
• 51:34
  Speaker 3: We couldn't do this without you.
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: And the other thing I want to give a shout
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: out for is many of you know I will be
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: summer in Mount Everest in May, starting the expedition in April.
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: I'm completely self funded. I'm doing this to shine a
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: light for all them veterans out there who was still
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: struggling like I did. Massively upon and as you're hearing
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: about and I want to be shouting from the rooftops,
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: we need to start making the link between childhood trauma
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: and PTSD and understanding that PTSD doesn't just have to
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: be something from the battlefield. Everybody can experience trauma, and
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: to understand complex trauma, we need to be talking about
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: the childhood stuff. So if you can spare a five
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: of folks to help me and my mission, that would
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: be absolutely wonderful. There's a link below so.
• 52:29
  Speaker 4: You know, if you're talking about the childhood trauma, there
• 52:33
  Speaker 4: is a there is another sort of thing in the
• 52:35
  Speaker 4: mix here. If you through a traumatic child as you like,
• 52:40
  Speaker 4: which this seems to be quite common. When we would go,
• 52:43
  Speaker 4: you know that there was always some uncle pedophile that's
• 52:46
  Speaker 4: kicking around, or a pedophile teacher seems to be just
• 52:50
  Speaker 4: normal and the other teachers have got up with it, etc.
• 52:54
  Speaker 4: And go, he's a bit strange, you know, like Jimmy Savil,
• 52:58
  Speaker 4: you know, a bit strange.
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: But no, then jingle jungle from a young man. Dear
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: jim please could you use slip for me to come
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: and do bounce bounce, bounce on your lap ah.
• 53:19
  Speaker 4: But my mum's brother she allowed him in our house
• 53:25
  Speaker 4: from from when we were all born, and that's my
• 53:30
  Speaker 4: brother said. It was very lucky for me and him,
• 53:34
  Speaker 4: the twin that he didn't like boys, or we would
• 53:37
  Speaker 4: have got buggered to death for our old our childhood,
• 53:40
  Speaker 4: you know. And this guy was running around our house
• 53:44
  Speaker 4: throughout up until he was about fourteen, and when we
• 53:47
  Speaker 4: got to fourteen, especially being the youngest, when Paul and
• 53:50
  Speaker 4: I became fourteen, I think he thought that was the
• 53:53
  Speaker 4: right time to not come back to the house because
• 53:56
  Speaker 4: also we were quite violent and potentially he was going
• 53:59
  Speaker 4: to get it.
• 54:00
  Speaker 7: We were becoming aware of what danger this weird.
• 54:04
  Speaker 4: Guy, because you know, you know there's something strange going on,
• 54:06
  Speaker 4: but you're not sexually developed, and you're not quite sure
• 54:10
  Speaker 4: what it is that you don't really want to be
• 54:13
  Speaker 4: left in a room with him, that's for sure, but
• 54:15
  Speaker 4: you're not quite sure, are you. Yeah, this guy is dangerous,
• 54:20
  Speaker 4: But like I said, you know, you didn't like boys,
• 54:22
  Speaker 4: so we in that respect, we were lucky.
• 54:24
  Speaker 7: Or I'll be a different person. I'm not sure I
• 54:27
  Speaker 7: could deal with that.
• 54:27
  Speaker 4: Because the other thing is when I talked to some people, friends, etc.
• 54:32
  Speaker 4: And they go, oh, rich, you wouldn't you wouldn't understand,
• 54:36
  Speaker 4: You wouldn't understand my childhood, you know, And it turns
• 54:39
  Speaker 4: out in their childhood. Their mum wouldn't give him chocolate
• 54:43
  Speaker 4: or something, and you just go and I go, for
• 54:45
  Speaker 4: God's sake, you know, I wouldn't understand, you know, I
• 54:49
  Speaker 4: just go get.
• 54:51
  Speaker 7: A grip, you know, being not given a sweet.
• 54:55
  Speaker 4: It's not trauma, do you know what I mean? And
• 54:57
  Speaker 4: they are, they can be really really mild inconveniences, but
• 55:02
  Speaker 4: they blame all of their adult flaws on some minuscule then.
• 55:09
  Speaker 4: But then when I see people that have real traumas,
• 55:13
  Speaker 4: they don't reflect on them. They will carry on. They
• 55:15
  Speaker 4: don't blame that. Even though it's a major issue.
• 55:19
  Speaker 7: They don't blame it. They don't talk about it.
• 55:21
  Speaker 4: It's very doesn't it.
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: You hear it?
• 55:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and you go, yeah, you wear it on a
• 55:26
  Speaker 4: sleeve because mummy didn't give you cordiflates to breakfast? What
• 55:30
  Speaker 4: about this guy? You know it's just an Yeah, that's
• 55:34
  Speaker 4: a little bit of an irritant for me. I must
• 55:35
  Speaker 4: haven't it.
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: Trauma is a funny thing though, because you know, I
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: got a friend, Oliolerton, who was also former ryal Marine
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: served in a Special Boat Service, and he's done a
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: lot of stuff on TV and absolutely super super guy
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: and the route, and I think both of us have
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: made it quite public.
• 55:57
  Speaker 3: We drunk a lot over the years.
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: He actually got him heard him saying on a podcast
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: that he got he was a private security contractor. I
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: believe it was Iraq, but don't quote me on that.
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: And one night he went he got so ring.
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: Bolted that he went out.
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: He was in his car with his AK forty seven
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: and he got lost and he didn't know where he
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: was in, you know, in quote unquote hostile territory. But
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: when Onie came on the show, the unless I've misunderstood this,
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: the epicenter of his trauma was being attacked by a
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: chimpanzee at a fair ground as a young youngster. And
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: by youngster I couldn't really put a particular age, but
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: maybe between the age of eight and twelve. I'm sort
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: of guessing, And well, here's the thing that's his trauma,
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: and he has every right to it, and I can't
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: judge it because I don't know how much do you
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: know what I mean? If it's enough to make you
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: nearly drink yourself to death as an adult, that's clearly
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: hit that that's his trauma, right, Whereas I'm sort of
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: like when I got attacked by a dog, a feral
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: dog on farmland where me and my mates were playing
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: one day. I would have been seven or eight years old,
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: I know, yes, seven or eight years old, and we
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: were playing with this farm dog. We all thought it
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: was great fun, throwing this stick and all this sort
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: of stuff. And then my mates decided that they had
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: to go home for their tea. And me, because I
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: always try to extend everything if I'm having fun, because
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: I'm not, you know, I'm missing out on something here,
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: I'll continue playing with his farm dog, thinking I've got
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: myself a new friend, you know. And as these lads disappeared,
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: this dog attacked me and it jumped up and I
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: just remember it had my head in its jaws and
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: I could feel its teeth bearing down on my scalp
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: and it had me on the floor. Well, of course
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: i've gone into severe shock, and haven't I can't fight
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: off a bloody wild dog. And it released its grip
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: and I stood there staring at it and it staring
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: at me.
• 58:09
  Speaker 3: And then it rang.
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: It just ran and I just turned. When I got home, Dickie,
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: I didn't even tell my my parents. And if you're
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: wondering why it's well, that was nothing compared to some
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: of the stuff I you know, I'd gone through. It
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: didn't it didn't even like rankor one on that Oh
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: I should tell me parents about that scale. It was
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: to me, that was just that's what happens to you
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: as a kid. Horrible things happened to you, and you know,
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: and there you go. But like you say that, none
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: of this is sour grapes. Don't care. You know, I
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: love both my parents. They they they've been through stuff
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: that I just it makes me cry thinking about it.
• 58:52
  Speaker 4: You know, your fights still alive.
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: So, uh, my dad is. My mum got asbestos poisoning
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: about fifteen years ago.
• 59:01
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: She got it working as a nurse in Charing Cross
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: Hospital as a youngster, where all the pipes and stuff
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: was lagged with asbestos from all the kind of shoddy
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: rebuilding after the war, after the bombing, And when she
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: become ill, she did an internet search and she found
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: out that one of the nurses she'd worked with back
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: then had had a one hundred thousand pounds payout for
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: being poisoned by the hospital through the asbestos. So that's
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: what my mum's diagnosis was, so that was that. But
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: she was Chipper till the end. She was going on
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: radio shows and telling her story. The day, the day
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: after she died, I was listening to I think it
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: was Radio Cornwall and the show host broke down on
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: air and they had he had to leave the studio
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: and his co host had to take over because he said,
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: I've just got to break the news to everyone that
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: Barbara died yesterday. So amazing. My my little tip for
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: people out there is love your parents, just, you know,
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: as much as you can. I know, it's I know
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: some of them it's too difficult, and I totally, I
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: totally get that.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: But if you.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: Can try and love your parents and spend time with them,
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: and try and forgive them for their indiscretions. Because after
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: my mum died, I drove out to the house and
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: there was a lovely rainbow right where I was driving,
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: you know, right where I was driving, and and all
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: these cards had turned up. There was about fifty cards
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: on on on the dining table, and I started to
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: look through them, and I'm reading about a woman that
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: I never knew because I'd always had this difficult animosity
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: between us, and I'd always been sort of independent, and
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: we'd always rub each other up the wrong way. Although
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: a child should never be able to other parent up
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: the wrong way. It's the parent's job to But you know, hey,
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: how we're all human. And the first card is to
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: the lovely woman in the sewing shop who used to
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: take my trousers up for free. Talking about sewing, now.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 3: Folks, you were all.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: The dirty minds you know, you know, used to take
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: the hem up on my trousers for free when I
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: didn't have any money. I will miss you to the
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: woman you know, Dear Barbara, you were that lovely woman
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: in the sewing shop on a corner, and you always
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: waved at me when I walked past, and it meant
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: so much to me. And card after card, dickie of
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: this woman that I'd never known because I'd allowed so yeah, okay,
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: I was young, young myself, but yeah, there you go.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: True story, folks.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 4: Interesting, Interesting though, isn't it what you're using as examples
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 4: with the world that we live in the sort of
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 4: non social world that we live in, living through these screens,
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 4: et cetera, without social interaction. When you talk of the
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 4: letters that you're opening and the social interaction of someone
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 4: just waving in the morning, the human interaction and it
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 4: gets a response like out there the woman thought she
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 4: or the man thought she'd had to write a letter
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 4: and post it into your box. And people don't understand
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 4: really what's going on at the moment, this breakdown in
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 4: social cohesion. That's a perfect example, just absolutely perfect. Just
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 4: somebody waving. Can people understand this concept of what is
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 4: going on? And you know, and it could lead on
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 4: to going back to Maggie Thatcher and crushing unions, which
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 4: is social. There's social details that there's not. There's separation
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 4: to break down these things and it all comes down
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 4: all those big pictures of breaking down pubs and not.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 4: Let try not to go into pubs and socialize it.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 4: They're so important, as is the cashier in the supermarket.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 4: I will go in a supermarket and buy a bottle
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 4: of bottle of oil and get behind the two trolleys
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 4: and then they're all going come here the self serve
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 4: the self that I'm not going that's fine, and they'll
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 4: get to the woman and she says, what you're doing?
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 7: I said, I like to interreact with you. How are
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 7: you doing today?
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 4: The wave and then Chris it's just it's a really
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 4: good examples.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 3: Just a bottle of oil.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: Why don't you just shove it in your pocket?
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 4: Those times have gone. But you know what I mean,
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 4: you know, you're just like going, come on this. It's
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 4: so important. We're losing social cohesion. We need to come
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 4: together as a community, as a world community, not you know,
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 4: and I look at that. I've had a look at you, Chris,
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 4: to see what you're doing. You know, you're trying to
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 4: make a cohesive a cohesive family, or a cohesive ness,
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 4: if you like. People have to talk to each other.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 4: We inter react on such a level quantum and then
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 4: quantum physics comes into it. How we interreact now, we
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 4: swap what's the word I'm looking for, Not protons, it's
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 4: the other one is electrons. There you go, engine and
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 4: we swap them between each other, which is one of
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 4: the reasons, which is potentially one of the reasons we've
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 4: become ill, because we swap these electrons with each other.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 4: And yeah, and that's really yeah, just to pick up
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 4: on what you're saying with the wave really, so yeah,
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 4: I do like that a lot, you know, as a
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 4: simplistic thing.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 7: You know, look.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 4: Chris, I live somewhere where all the London lot are
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 4: forming now. So you've got lots of solicitors, lots of
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 4: police officers that are inspectors, et cetera. And they all
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 4: come because I'm on I'm on the end of the
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 4: line the underground. They've all.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 7: But you go walk the dog in the woods.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 4: Well look there's fucking no one us in the woods,
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 4: you know, And along comes to the wax coat fucking
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 4: well and boot with its legal comes.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 7: The other way and goes like this, and I have.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 4: To go good morning. I think, oh, oh, you're not
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 4: going to stab me. No, you've fallen out from London.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 4: They might stab you in London. But when we walk
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 4: in the woods, here we go good morning and we socialize.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 4: It's a beguilia things. I just go, come on votes.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 4: You've lost all your your normal social behavior because you've
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 4: been living in an environment, because any city doesn't have
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 4: that cohesiveness. You're all suspicious of each other. You must
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 4: have moved to this village because you wanted a sense
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 4: of community, but then you cut it out and you
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 4: don't want to sail Oh to the other guy with
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 4: the dog, explain no one to increase it's mad. Yeah.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: I always sort of explain it to people on the show,
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: as you got this lad culture now of get as
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: many tattoos as you can all over your body, so
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: so that the girls, all, you know, fancy you and
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: then have some funny piercings in your ears and skin
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: your head or have air tranceplat or what you know.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: Everyone's so desperate to be loved and so much so
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: that skinny jeans actually became a thing. Let's not even
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: go there, right, And it's like, chaps, you can't even
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: say hello to somebody in the street and you want
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: to be the big man. Do you not understand the
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: disparity here? A girl is looking for a bloke that
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: is a good geezer, that holds his head high, that
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: looks other people in the eyes, said morning, Okay, do
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: you want to handle that? You know whatever? It might
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: be firm and shake.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 3: How do you do? Yes?
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: You know it's it's not difficult, but it's slowly been
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: socialized out of people to the point now where And
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: this is not a criticism of young people. This is
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: a criticist of us letting the merchant Cabal traumatize us
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: all through their Hollywood, through their beauty magazine culture through
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: their phony medical nonsense. But it's got and the overbearing
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: health and safety risk adversion culture and sissy teachers who
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: are too afraid to do the right thing because they
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: might lose their job, and all of this can'd of
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: stun and I shouldn't say cissy. You know, the pressures
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: on people need to pay their mortgage and you can't,
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: and you do all that time at UNI and you
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: borrow all that money, you can't get an your first
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: job and say, sod off, I'm not like not taking
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: the kids to the beach because one of them might drown.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 3: That's not how it That's not how this is.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: You can't do that, you got well, yes, head master, yes,
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: well of course we shouldn't take the kids to the beach.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: You know, let's let's let's get them all in face masks,
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: and let's get that lovely Richard Branson in to give
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: them all the procedure for the flu, for there are detos.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: You know, this is what it's resulted in.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 4: Now?
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: Is this this kind of like there's a wave of
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: young men men that in the old days.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 3: We'd call them walies. Do you know what I mean?
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 3: They've got nothing.
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: They can't they can't say hello. They go out with
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: their parents and they sit there like inn emo with
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: their head looking down, and the parents don't even think
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: to sort of say, hey, this is my son, this
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: is you know, this is Craig. Craig shake hands like
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: a bloody told you to.
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 3: You're Oh.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: They just accept that, Oh, you know he's a bit special.
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: And and yes, and like I say, not a criticism
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: of people. Just let's have a look at where we are.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: Folks for crying out loud, you know, can you not
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: see this for yourself?
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 4: The celebration of male and female needs to be reinstated.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 4: It needs to be reinsted. I'm involved in health a
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 4: lot now and all the the thing that happened in
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 4: twenty twenty, what that did for all of us. Health
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 4: practitioners are not complementary practitioners, not alternative practitioners. We're health practitioners.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 4: And I have to get that out of people's vocabulary.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 4: It's another alternative. I'm not doing anything alternative. I'm a
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 4: health practitioner. What it's done has allowed me to be
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 4: involved with big groups of people that are health practitioners
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 4: now and in that world that I live in now,
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 4: which I think that that time for, by the way,
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 4: because what it's done is pushing into an environment where
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 4: the men in this environment that I work in are
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 4: men and the women are feminine, and women they appreciate
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 4: the men being men, and they will ask them to
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 4: pick a box up for them without feeling like they've
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 4: given away their own masculinity. They appreciate they want to
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 4: be protected by their men, and we protect them, and
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 4: you just go, come on, you know, and it's lovely
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 4: to secrets because all of the women are very feminine
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 4: and they're not trying to they're not trying to take
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 4: the worst aspects of a male and somehow stitch it into.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 7: Themselves and walk around like this.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 4: You know, you go, whoa if the power lines with you, girls,
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 4: you've only got a flat of your eyelids and go, oh,
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 4: could you please? A man just wilt. He's lost. He's
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 4: wilted today. Do whatever you want.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 7: But this thing's been lost, hasn't it, Chris, It's been
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 7: lost completely?
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, Dickie. I'm keen.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: As much as I love this making sense of the
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: world and meeting people that are aware of what's going on,
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: I'm also acutely aware. This is probably the only chance
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: I'm going to get to delve into your background, although
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: you're always welcome back on the show. We got as
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: far as India, didn't we your brothers go into India.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: That was a place that was on the hippie trail
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: where a lot of people headed for and they hung
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: out at go on the beach and smoked stuff. And
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: so how did that progress? Then you're looking at your
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: brother going over there. Is he smuggling a little bit
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: of this back and forth?
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 7: He's been he's been smuggling for ten years?
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, how get What was his method? And how
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: did he get it?
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 3: Swallow it swallow.
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 4: Condoms condoms swallow And he had a as he told me,
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 4: had it. He had his tracks worked out really well
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 4: where he knew that if he came back to England,
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 4: which he did on one occasion, and they stopped him,
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 4: and then then days they take somewhere and make the
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 4: other crap.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 7: And then they'd have a look for your crap to
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 7: see there's any drugs in here.
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 4: And he said, I could work it out. I could
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 4: have a dump nothing.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 7: In it and they'd let me go.
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 4: And it did, and they made him over dunt once
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 4: and he was ready to go after that. He knew
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 4: he could never get caught. Yeah, so that was his scam.
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 4: And then of course I went there and did that.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 4: I went there and did that, and you're seeing the
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 4: story now, the story unravels. You know, you just go,
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 4: really rich, are you really that stripitch? You know, even
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 4: when I was writing it, I act a lot when
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 4: I wrote it. The stupidity of the character that I'm
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 4: writing about is just unbelievable.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 7: You know, the risk, the risk.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 4: I got to the airport and I was supposed to
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 4: have swallowed these things in Bombay, and.
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 7: I couldn't swallow them.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 4: They were too uncomfortable. So he said, just chuck them
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 4: in your bag and go through customs. So I walked
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 4: through and I was going, no, no, no, need just
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 4: go no, you you're fine, trust me, And often went
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 4: through customs with a bag full of drugs, got on
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 4: the plane and.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 7: Let them on the plane. What are you doing? You know,
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 7: you just sort of look at it and go.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 4: But you know, the thing is the book, the book's
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 4: written in a very truthful honest I've not I've not
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 4: bigged it up or as one of my friends said, oh,
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 4: it's a story of a gangster. And there isn't any
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 4: element of a gangster in this story, Chris, at all.
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 4: There's no element. I'm not. I wasn't trying to be
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 4: a gangster, not prime pretending to be one. I was
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 4: just doing life. That was all gangsters do. Other things,
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 4: they have other mentalities. I was just smuggling drugs and
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 4: doing life, really, And of course that scam worked, you know,
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 4: and I got back here and you know it's worth
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 4: a lot of money, and off you go. Yeah quite yeah.
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 2: When you look back at it, is there a fear
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: when you've got that stuff in your stomach that it
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 2: could burst.
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 4: No, I didn't have any nothing. I didn't think anything.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 4: I just thought, yeah, that's fine, and then got out
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 4: the other end, and and some of the some of
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 4: the because it was in six six condoms.
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 7: And then when I got to the other end and
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 7: I and then I had to get them out, some
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 7: of them.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 4: One of the outer layers had been gone, you know,
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 4: was all wrappit otty. You know, you just go and
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 4: of course you look back at it, Chris, you know
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 4: you just think Jesus Christ, you know what you're thinking there?
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 4: But I was thinking because I was being programmed. Really,
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 4: you know, he'd gone and I knew that afterwards with
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 4: getting people to do stuff after that, that he just
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 4: wanted to let's just get that there. He didn't care
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 4: about really, he didn't give the monkeys. Monkeys asked get
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 4: on that plane and get them drugs back to England.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 4: And when I look back at I think, all, David,
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 4: you were brutal. I was a twenty nineteen, twenty year
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 4: old and you're thirty, and I'm your little brother, and
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 4: you go, yeah, just get on there like I'm just
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 4: any meal, you know, just any donkey, and off you go.
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 4: But I would say this though, Chris, I would say
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 4: this for as much as what he did. And you'll
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 4: see in the story that this doesn't happen once. He
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 4: does quite a few things here that are that no
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 4: brothers should ever do to a brother. They're just outrageous.
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 4: But he became a bullist monkey in the end. I
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 4: forgave him, and you just to go and see him.
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 4: Do you know Sammy Ln Sammy Lying Buddhist tempoint in.
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 2: Scotland, Okay, and then never heard of it.
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 4: Okay, samuy L beautiful monastery and the whole thing shaped
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 4: here that completely ordained is a monk, etc. You know,
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 4: got a great mind, never pickled by the not never
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 4: pickled to a point, you know. But he still had
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 4: his web for all after being a junkie for ten years,
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 4: to consume that Buddhist philosophy and regurgitate it. I don't
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 4: think he understood it, stood it particularly well, but he
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 4: was able to read the literature, do the right thing,
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 4: if you like, within the Buddhist world, and regurgitate what
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 4: was written. And it is quite cool.
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 7: I read some of the Buddhists stuff he was studying.
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 6: You know.
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 4: I couldn't make Edna tell me honest to prison, it's
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 4: far too what's the word's complex? I couldn't, But.
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 7: He could regurgitate it.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 4: And I used to think, well, you're still this really
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 4: intelligent big brother, you know. And I used to find
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 4: that fascinating. And then he told me something one day
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 4: that shocked me. That the monk was on a hit
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 4: list by the Chinese government. Okay, they wanted to assassinate him.
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 4: So he put it out into the monastery in Scotland
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 4: that he wanted a bodyguard. So my brother and his
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 4: wisdom put his hand up and said, nope, that's my role.
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 7: I'm a bodyguard and I'll protect you.
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 4: And of course the monk rejected him, and he said,
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 4: you know, and he couldn't work out why. The reason
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 4: was because I look at stuff like Winnie the Pooh
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 4: as a simple bear. Buddhism is about non desire, and
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 4: you desired something and you missed the point, Dave. You
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 4: regurgitate all of that and a simple thing comes along
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 4: for desire and you jumped at it straight away. You
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 4: don't learn anything.
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 7: Get the roads off, you learn a thing. I thought
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 7: it was really amazing.
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 4: And there's me wandering around reading Winnie the Pooh and
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 4: getting all the wisdom of the world. Thought, well, either
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 4: read this, Dave. This is Winnie the Pooh and he
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 4: saves the hundred acre woods. It will teach you everything
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 4: about Buddhism. And if it does, it's not Buddhism. Really.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 4: You never read the Dale of Pooh. That was them
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 4: through the eyes of poop Bear. It's a go.
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 7: It's one of those books.
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 4: Chris where Hoff, who wrote the book describing Dooism through
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 4: the Eyes of poo Bear and the books off Pooh,
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 4: and he sits at his desk with Pooh Bear discussing
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 4: Taoism because Pooh is Dow. He is the Dow, and
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 4: he discusses the whole book with Poo and describes all
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 4: the archetypes through all the characters of the one hundred
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 4: eight Woop. It's a like in a sense, it's a
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 4: life changing book because of the simplicity.
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 7: And I've always since I read.
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 4: That when I was very young, well when I was
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 4: very young, you know, I don't know, maybe I was
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 4: in my mid twenties or late twenties. It changed my
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 4: perspective of life to look at things without trying to
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 4: let things just happen in front of you, without the desire. Yeah,
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 4: I thought, it's a beautiful way to change your You know,
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 4: we read things and we take the snippets with Chris,
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 4: these these books and we go all, yeah, if it's
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 4: right into my little puzzle of life. And that's how
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 4: I you know, if someone says, oh, what's your philosophy
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 4: of life? Or are you religious? And I go, not
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 4: particularly religious, but I take all of these little things
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 4: and I'm still you do the s you take all
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 4: of these little things, go oh no. I resonate with
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 4: that just at the right time, just at the right time,
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 4: and it feels in, it feels in the black spaces,
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 4: doesn't it.
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 2: Absolutely Yeah, I call it downloads. You know, some days
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: you have such massive downloads, you feel like you've taken
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: possess it, possession of such knowledge that would take you
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 2: two or three years to accumulate. And it's a beautiful.
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: Sometimes it's just you're there, You're.
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 3: In the zone. You know, you're in that.
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: Nirvana which is taking no mind, you know, absolute presence,
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 2: and it's it's it's a great, it's great. And the
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 2: wonderful thing is it's there for everybody. Is second you
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 2: want it, you just got to shut your eyes.
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 4: I will say is because I'll jump in before we
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 4: ask me another question. I'm really interested to know what
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 4: you're training, raging. I'm back training, by the way, I
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 4: do a lot of training now, and I haven't because
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 4: I've had children and all these things of family life.
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 7: I've got in my way, and I am starting to train.
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 7: But I'm really.
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 4: Intrigued by what you do to train to climb a mountain, really,
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 4: because I couldn't because my circulation. They'd to cut all
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 4: my fingers because I can't go in the cold. I
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 4: can't sit in the winter and watch game football out
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 4: and go white. But I'm really intrigued. You're trying to
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 4: get the oxygen levels up in your blood system.
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: Or yeah, I'm going to be doing all of that.
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 2: I've got this thing here. Actually I got sponsored by
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 2: this company, but I never actually ended up doing any
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 2: work for them.
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 3: It was their a fit.
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 2: They sent me this for three This is like three
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 2: hundred quidsworth And what it is. You've got little dials
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 2: on each side, one for inhale and one for exhale.
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 2: And when you you can adjust it to make it
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 2: harder to inhale or harder to exhale. So you're putting
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 2: your your lungs under a you know, more precious. So
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 2: I'm going to start using this a lot more. I'm
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 2: going to get one of those oxygen meters that measures
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 2: how much oxygen is in your blood. Oh, you can
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 2: clip it on your finger, and this this sort of stuff.
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 2: I'm not you know, I'm just going to do what
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 2: I can do. I'm not an obsessive person.
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 3: When when it when it?
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 2: You know, when we rowed the Atlantic, we went out
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 2: in the boat a couple of times went Yeah, this
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 2: is easy in it, right, Let's go down a pub,
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean. I'm not a great believer
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 2: in I always say get your safety sorted.
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 3: That's it.
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 2: That's the most in what you need. You need an
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 2: exit plan for any eventuality. When you've done that. Your
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 2: fitness Rony Atlantic, You're going to be rowing for fifty
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 2: we rowed for fifty days, isn't what's the point doing
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 2: any training for that? You're going to get fit doing it,
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 2: aren't you?
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, there you go.
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 2: That's an interesting It is mental. It's it's of course
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 2: the biggest thing. It's the fundraising. This is why so
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: few people do these endeavors is you've got to raise
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: the money for it, and it's a lot.
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 3: So that's that.
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 4: So do you then, do you consider yourself to have
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 4: that particular gene pool, that particular structure and which probably
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 4: comes with the mindset, but that physical structure where you
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 4: have an endurance naturally far greater than most of us.
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 7: So best does that make sense to you?
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 4: Describing them?
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if you take like an Adonis like figure like
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 2: Johnny Weissmuller, you know, Olympic swimmer who became Tarzan, a
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 2: big ripple mustly germanically handsome geezer, if that's not a
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 2: double negative, and well, I'm the complete opposite of that.
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 2: I'm very gifted in my physique. I've still got pretty
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 2: much the same physique I had as when I was
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 2: like twenty, and I'm quite you know, I'm slim, quite,
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 2: you know, mustly, I'm lucky in that department.
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 3: But here's the thing.
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 2: In the Marines, of fact, the running was so hard,
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 2: the speed marching was so hard. With my little legs,
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 2: I'm struggling to keep up all the time. Absolutely, i'd
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 2: feel like death from the beginning. I was always good
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 2: in the gym at climbing, so I could do thirty
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 2: pull ups. When I was younger, I was a pet
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 2: superhero in the Marines by nature of the fact I
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 2: could get up the ropes. I was always the second
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 2: fastest in my troop up the ropes and this kind
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 2: of stuff. And even to this day, you know, I
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 2: could thirty pull ups push ups. Is I'd feel a
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 2: bit of a whimp if I couldn't do sort of
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 2: do that. But swimming, everything goes against me. I've got
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 2: very little body fat, I got quite high muscle density.
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 2: I got small, not ridiculously small hands, but I don't
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 2: have the big hands that Olympic swimmers have, all the
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 2: big feet and shorter legs, so I'm not getting the stride,
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 2: short short, shorter arms, so I'm not you know, I
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: can't drag loads of water behind me, probably smaller lungkpat
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 2: and fairly I've got fairly big head, believe it or not,
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 2: not abnormally, but in the Marines I was one of
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 2: the the larger size for headwear. And of course in swimming,
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 2: the last thing you want is a heavy head because
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 2: every time you breathe, it's it's knocking your feet down,
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 2: you know, So no I am. I don't want people
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 2: to think I'm gifted in any way. Anyone who knows
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 2: my story knows I've worked at it over the years.
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 2: Endurance is quite easy because as you get older, it's
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 2: it's mental not physical. So you know, if you wanted
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 2: me to go and run one hundred miles tom, I
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 2: wouldn't think twice about doing that. That's yeah, we can
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 2: stop and walk a bit. We don't have to be
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 2: mental about it or anything. But so that's kind of
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 2: me obviously for Everest, because I've got to be a
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 2: responsible person. I'm going to get myself as fit as
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 2: I can, which I which I do because I I
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 2: I run one day, I swim the next, and I
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 2: jim gym the next. I don't tend to go on
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 2: the bike because I just think the roads are too
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 2: too dangerous. But I have got a really decent bike
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 2: that I do triathlon on usually come round about last,
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 2: and I'm perfect perfectly happy with that. Doesn't bother me
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 2: at all. I find that a badge of honor. You know,
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 2: you could come fifth from the bottom or something, and yeah,
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 2: that that's Does that answer your question?
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, But yeah, it's not. It's not a question
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 4: of whether there's a uniqueness about you. It's just that
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 4: some people do have a stamina, they do have a
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 4: When I see you, I just don't know. He's got senner.
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 4: He's got a nice face to start with. Not that
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 4: the word special comes into it, but you do, like
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 4: you just said to me, My.
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 2: Missus says I'm special. In fact, she actually says you're
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 2: special like that. I don't know why she says it
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 2: like that, but she must love me a lot.
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 4: But the fact that you can go, you can go,
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 4: you can run one hundred miles tomorrow if you like,
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 4: you know, suggest because I couldn't. I'd have to. I'd
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 4: have to focus myself here.
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 2: I bet you weld if I if someone put a
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 2: gun to your head, I'm going to promise you. You know,
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 2: you might not do it in any kind of Olympic time,
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 2: but but human beings are amazing. Running is the thing
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 2: I practiced the most, and that's because of the abundance
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 2: of women in my life. I'm always chasing them, you know. Yeah, no,
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 2: they're always running away from me. Now that reminds me
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 2: of a Take Jack take that joke. It was Gary
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 2: Barlow and they said, tell us about you know, your
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 2: heady days of rock and roll or pop and roll,
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 2: and he said he said, yeah, it was the women
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 2: trying to smash the hotel door down as they were
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 2: trying to escape.
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that tickled me as well.
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 2: So I want to come back because you know, traveling
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 2: has been my life. I've absolutely loved it, and to
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 2: be honest, I did kind of get off my head
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 2: in pretty much everywhere I went, which I do not
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 2: recommend to people.
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 3: I have been.
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 2: I've been on four or five expeditions now where people
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 2: have died, some through drug misadventure, some through adventure misadventure.
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 2: And I say to everyone there's one thing you shouldn't
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 2: do abroad, and that substances just you just should you know.
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 2: The other thing is don't go on the beach at night.
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 2: That if you stick by them two rules, you won't
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 2: go far wrong. Needless to say, I usually break all
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 2: my own rules. But you know, you've got to be
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 2: prepared to take the consequences ofn't you. And I don't
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 2: think a lot of people probably are for the trouble
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 2: they end up getting themselves in. He plays it like
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 2: Barley with twenty two kila kilograms of heroin in their luggage.
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 2: But no, I wanted to ask you about that because
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 2: so you were going back and forth to India. When
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 2: was it you got arrested?
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 7: Just the one trip to India? The one trip and then.
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 4: That funded that funded another project, if you like, for
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 4: my brother to send back a couple of kilos in
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 4: the post and that's where it all went shaped.
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 2: All and we all got caught.
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 4: Well, it's quite embarrassing and in a sense of somebody
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 4: that is very what would we say, I understand how
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 4: the process works Chris, you know, if you get nicked,
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 4: you just go go away and go and give me
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 4: my solicitor.
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 7: You don't even bother talking to them. No comment.
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 4: But the situation which you go through in the book was,
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 4: of course he sends to two kilos, it's coming to
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 4: me as well.
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 7: I had coming to my address, and then.
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 4: It arrived and I stashed it out of the way,
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 4: and then I went to see him, and there was
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 4: nowhere to be seen. And it turned out what he'd
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 4: been doing, in his wisdom, he'd been bragging to everyone
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 4: that he'd got this couple of kilos and smack coming
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 4: to which obviously filled down to the cops, and they
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 4: come and arrested him because they thought you had a
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 4: couple of kilos.
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 7: Now you've been nicked a few times, right, Chris?
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 4: Or am I am?
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 2: I know I've been nicked twice in my life, once
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 2: by military police, once by civilian police.
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 4: Oh okay, So when you get knit, there's a process
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 4: so chucking in the cells. So what I aim was
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 4: and he got nicked, okay, And then they came and
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 4: found me, and Nick's met okay, but I had the
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 4: drugs but somewhere else, so they knit me. I was,
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 4: they're gonna do anything to me at all? You know,
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 4: I was innocent, and.
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 7: I just thought to himself, this is fine. I've been
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 7: in and out of.
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 4: A police station throughout my whole teens that these people didn't.
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 4: It was a game, and all of us who started
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 4: to play this game with cops all of the time.
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 4: And I thought, well, this is okay. But what doesn't
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 4: happen is the door opens in my cell and my
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 4: brother comes in, and I go then, and of course
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 4: then I sort of what's the word I'm looking for?
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 7: My brain closes down and I think, what siskind doing in?
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 4: What's this kind doing in here? I couldn't work it hell.
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 4: And then he comes and he goes, fine, okay, look,
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 4: I've got it all under control. But you've got my
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 4: you've got the drug.
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 7: So I wanted to get him back to them, and
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 7: I said, what are you talking about? He said, don't
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 7: worry about it.
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 4: I've got it all under control. Now.
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 7: I was in the position of a twenty year old
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 7: and idle.
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 4: Worshiping somebody that knew how to deal with the drug
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 4: squad had been nicked a thousand times, fucked them off
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 4: in all about this system.
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 7: And I've made a mistake because what he did, he
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 7: got me to give them the drugs, which got me
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 7: fucking put away and I got four and a.
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 4: Half years and I and on reflection, I realized that
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 4: the person that had the control of the knowledge was me,
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 4: not him. But they just got him and he will
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 4: he will it.
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 3: I couldn't.
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 4: I couldn't. Yeah, shot men. So I just gave them,
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 4: gave them my life, really, and that's how I got
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 4: And like I say, you know, a non reflection, it
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 4: did me a favor. It did me a favor, you know.
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 7: And if you look back over your life, and I
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 7: wonder if you do the same, Chris, you look back
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 7: at all of these different things, all of the times
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 7: you tripped over all of those moments to get you here,
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 7: one of those moments got me here.
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 4: I don't. I don't. I don't look at any of
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 4: them in a negative way at all. And an actual fact,
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 4: when I wrote the book, I laughed about them because
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 4: I thought they were really funny and the bloke that
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 4: student was really stupid. But it got me to where
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 4: I am, and where I am it's where I want
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 4: to be things and that's yeah, so yeah, but it
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 4: did crush me for a while. Corporating with the cops
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 4: crushed me. He took away my power. My power was
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 4: I never dealt with the cops. You don't deal with
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 4: them if you were, if you were that way in
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 4: client they got the you know, got you had to
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 4: prove it, and he took it, took that away, and
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 4: then it did it to me while I was banged up.
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 4: So I went. So I went Penville, Brixton, Wandsworth, those
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 4: three and then it took me out to high point.
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 4: But going through that London Victorian system. You know, the
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 4: prison officers there is institutionalized. This as any prisoner completely institutionalized,
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 4: said that they got the key and then they've got
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 4: the power.
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 2: But they they get a bit dev and done't they
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 2: some of them prison officers.
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, I had a situation where what we used
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 4: to do that my co defendant, we in Pentville. We
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 4: weedled a job where we washed hands after dinner and
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 4: after team and then they let us out all day,
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 4: so we had our door open all day and then
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 4: they wanted to start strip searching us and we got
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 4: together with all the other cons in Pentville on demand
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 4: and so we're not adding this and convicts rights, Chris,
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 4: convicts rights. You can't.
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 7: We're not or we weren't convicted, you know, we were
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 7: remand prisoners. We work convicts, and you can't stript sichts
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 7: and who you are.
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 4: So anyway, they came around to strip searchers one day
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 4: and we've got a whole thing going on, like a
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 4: union with all the other criminals, and these lots we're
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 4: all criminals by the you know, proper gone through this
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 4: process forever in a day. And we said, right, we're
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 4: not adding strip searches. So they came down to strip
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 4: searches and they threw me in. My co defendant now
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 4: took me in to the cell, said right east, you know,
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 4: script search, and I said, I'm not having it. And
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 4: then the young there was a young screw there I
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 4: didn't know me, and he wanted to get involved, you know.
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 4: And the senior screw he.
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 7: Knew me, and he said, come on, let's just take
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 7: it tof.
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 4: Off, bootback on, take your bottoms off, put back with
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 4: you might.
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 7: I said, no, I'm I'm a personal god, I'm.
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 4: Not a convicted prison You're not allowed to, you know,
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 4: like had some sort of moral right, you know, to
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 4: take a prison opposite to bugger off. I've got some
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 4: weird rites. Anyway, I came out and I gave him
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 4: my co defendant, John of Jerry. I went anyway, He
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 4: went in did the same thing. The next thing, you know,
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 4: all hell's broken loose. That senior officers come down. Take
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 4: this bad and a buck. I've got all, you know,
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 4: and I've we went. They took us to the block
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 4: because we refused the strip search. We'ld have got to
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 4: the into the block. And I said, it's a terrifying place.
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 4: The walls four foot thick, the door opens and you've
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 4: got to walk through a tunnel into the cell. You know,
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 4: it's just so. And hen comes to a short Scottish guy.
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 4: He's got a Scottish attitude and he's short, could you imagine,
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 4: and ginger hair. And I couldn't let the three you know,
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 4: you couldn't combine that into one human, did you. Anyway,
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 4: he comes in with these two guys who had to
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 4: walk sideways through the door, and they stood behind him
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 4: and he said, right, he says, so you're not going
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 4: to take a strip search? And I said what he said? Right?
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 4: I think we'll have a strip and I said, yeah, sure,
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 4: you know that strip and he goes, what you're doing?
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 4: I said, we want to meet a strip, right, He said,
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 4: we want to do out there?
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 7: You know, what do you think you're doing?
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 4: I said, ohoh, craank in just a minute, I said,
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 4: I might have anything on that I could endure myself,
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 4: you know, and you'd be responsible. You wouldn't want to
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 4: do that, would you. And I talked to in this
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 4: really lovely calm voice because of four these guys are
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 4: really going to give me a kick in here, and he.
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 7: Got completely kerfuddled and he didn't know what to do
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 7: with it.
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 4: And as a second wind, my brother had actually locked
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 4: himself away do not on rule forty three in prison
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 4: rule forty three, that's a ruling under the governor. You've
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 4: got a voluntary rule forty three where you asked to
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 4: be put in a prison cell under a rule forty three,
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 4: which means you're protected, or the governors can put you
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 4: under their own discretion, which is generally all the sex
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 4: offenders come under a governor's rule forty three, and they
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 4: just locked them away away from the other prisoners because
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 4: they'll get killed. But my brother had locked himself away
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 4: on a rule forty three under his discretion. So this
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 4: screw said to me. Then after I strip search put
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 4: my he goes, so, so your brother's put himself on
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 4: a rule forty three.
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 7: And I said, yeah, he said, you're going.
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 4: To kill him, and goes, have you been able to
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 4: see the size of this fellow?
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 1: That?
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 4: What am I going to? I don't understand what you're saying.
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 4: And because I spoke to him in this articulate way,
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 4: going back to being articulate with my brothers and sisters,
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 4: if you like, softly spoken articulate, he just turned around
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 4: and left the cell with.
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 7: His with his numpties and went back in there.
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 4: And I think my code offend, who was far far
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 4: more intelligent, I think he actually called him see he
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 4: went and flipped him off out the door without him
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 4: even realizing exactly what just happened. So they didn't get
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 4: any joy out of either of us, because what they
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 4: came for was to give us a beating. So there
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 4: was my brother again. He put he put me in
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 4: the line not not getting nicknam. He put me in
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 4: line for getting a good kicking. And I just thought, wow,
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 4: is this ever going to stop? Is it ever going
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 4: to stop, you know, yeah.
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it will stop when you do what I told you.
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 2: Walk past him one day, all nonchalot.
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 7: No, he's dead, by the way, that one. This one's
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 7: he's tending ars.
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 4: Again. We're back in the bollocks. Oh my, there, it's
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 4: all right, the iPads running out of running out of juice.
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 2: Well, just to close, then can we talk about Hong Kong?
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 2: And then I just want to talk about about enlightenment obviously,
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 2: because I think that's the golden in these conversations.
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, just a weird one.
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 7: And what I can do is just do this because
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 7: I thought it would last.
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 4: For a lot longer than an hour.
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 2: Sorry, that's all right, mate, Just there you go, all right,
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 2: go a.
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 4: Bit wonky now, I'm a bit wonky, you go.
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So Hong Kong most of it? No, I mean,
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 2: did you have a big traveling like resume. Was it
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 2: something you did for a period of your life? How
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 2: did you end up in Hong Kong. I'm just fascinated, right.
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 4: So, Hong Kong. When I got banged up and got
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 4: convicted for the drug snuggling, five of my mates locally
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 4: decided they were moving to Hong Kong. So I wrote
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 4: to them, or wrote to one of them while I
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 4: was banged up. And then when I got out, they
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 4: painted all my mate had painted this picture. They were
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 4: all teaching in Monkok and all this in the language.
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 4: Or we're doing wonderful rich and we're out of England
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 4: and we're doing all this wonderful things. And I thought, right.
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 7: Okay, And so I got out and shot off to
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 7: Hong Kong.
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 4: I thought, I've got to get out of here. You know,
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 4: the whole traveling thing is, you can't get rid of
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 4: it once you started doing that. This is sort of
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 4: a wonder, isn't the quist And I forgo to Hong Kong.
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 4: And it became apparent quite quickly that they did teach
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 4: these specially these two. These two of them were in
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 4: Hong Kong, two of them were in Taiwan, and one
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 4: of them was in Thailand now, and that's how they lived.
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 4: And it became quite apparent that they were all smuggling
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 4: drugs and gold. Ever. But I went from the fire
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 4: to the frying pan, or the frying pan to the fires,
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 4: and it didn't take me long to get going all
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 4: over again. And I thinking on reflection, I suppose I
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 4: could look at it as I needed to prove a
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 4: particular point to myself where I disappointed. I was a
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 4: disappointment to myself by handing those drugs over to the police.
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 4: I was really disappointed. And so I carried on. And yeah,
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 4: I carried on, did loads of other crime in Asia
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 4: and fraud and credit cards and travelers checks, etc. And
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 4: smuggling drugs here there and down Australia. And I, yeah,
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 4: I suppose if looking at it, I suppose almost a
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 4: death wish as well. You know, what did I think
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 4: I was doing? And I was said in I kept
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 4: crashing into this brick wall, but it fall down and
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 4: we'll get out of the rubble and carry on. And
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 4: then right at the end, I got a warning from
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 4: a very spiritual memory lady called Francis, who I met
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 4: in Australia. And she said she knew nothing about me.
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 4: By the way, it's a very odd you know, I
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 4: meet some extraordinary people, don't you. And she said, before
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 4: you go back to Asia, I have something to say
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 4: to you. You need to say to your friends. You've
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 4: got five friends in Asia and I said, yeah, I
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 4: have got five friends. She said, you need to say
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 4: to them, and this applies to you. You all to
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 4: stop doing what you're doing and go home. It's not
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 4: going to end well for you. You know, what was that?
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 4: What was that? And she was completely right as well,
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 4: completely three of them ended up in junkies. Another one
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 4: got run over. I mean, you know, basically they give
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 4: him his last rights, but he did, but his brain
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 4: spit pickled now and only one in that group, I'd say,
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 4: only one in that group survived that complete if you like,
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 4: and when it became very very successful in Japan. It's
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 4: a very successful guy, very well rounded.
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 7: But he he didn't he didn't.
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 4: Listen to what I had to say, because I think
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 4: they all thought I was bonkers. But what he did,
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 4: he he went and did what he wanted to do,
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 4: which was to be successful.
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 7: And he is successful and a really nice guy.
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 4: And but for the rest of us, we all, we
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 4: all became croppers of of her for telling a future
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 4: that wasn't looking good for us if we didn't pack
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 4: it in there.
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 2: How come you just was that the moment you decided
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 2: to pack it in then, No, what I.
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 7: Did, I went back to Asia.
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 4: So I jump on the plane back to back to
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 4: Southeast Asia, and and I'm sure Chriss, this is the
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 4: same for you. You well, you're actually a victim of it. Actually,
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 4: if I think about it, lots of gries will go
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 4: out to Asia, spanner spat out back to the UK
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 4: or wherever, whichever European or Western country, but completely crackers
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 4: and gone. So of course I've turned up now on
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 4: crackers and I've gone. I've seen the Southsayer and she's
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 4: told me to tell you all this, you know. So
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 4: I went around to Taiwan to Tyler, said the guys
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 4: in Hongkong and said, listen, it's not going to end well,
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 4: the fucking sky's falling. You better go home, and off
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 4: I went, and they all just sort of went to
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 4: see the key. So I came back here and thought
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 4: I'd learned something, and then went to South America, picked
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 4: up some coke and brought that back and that was that,
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 4: and that was that. This this is the turn board.
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 7: So I went via Portugal, so.
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 4: On the way back of this coke which I in
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 4: my backside, and got to Portugal and then I thought, right, okay,
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 4: the best way back into Indians because on a convicted
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 4: drug smug by now was to get a bus. I thought,
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 4: from this burn all the way back, no one's going
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 4: to look at me at Dover, you know, because I
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 4: learned a lot anarchus, you know, and of course then
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 4: the chances of this. So I get on the bus,
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 4: I've got this coke suck up on the backside, and
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 4: off we go. And then because I've become ill like malaria,
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 4: I've got these like manaria symptoms. And I got on
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 4: the bus and a couple of hours in and I
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 4: started getting the symptoms, and I knew I was going
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 4: to be vomiting and stuff. You know. Now, this wasn't
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 4: going to be good. The last thing I remember was
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 4: saying to somebody bought a foot all, see, give me
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 4: some water, you know. And that was the last thing
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 4: I remember. Then I woke up in a hospital in
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 4: intensive care with a consultant. We're all rigged up with
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 4: a her and fucking drip feeds, and with a consultant
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 4: giving me a nipple cripple, you know, telling me to
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 4: wake up. And when I came out of this, I
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 4: thought it was nicked. Actually I thought it was in
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 4: a lot of trouble. And this is sort of giving
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 4: the way the.
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 7: End of the story.
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 4: Really, do I give away the end of my story?
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 2: Is?
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 7: Do I give away the end of the story?
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 4: Chris?
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 2: I think people are going to read your book anyway
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 2: because it's fascinating. I think they'll be angry with angry
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 2: with us. Now if we don't, well, that's where the
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 2: story ends. Okay, that's where the story ends.
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 4: In the book. I mean, I'm inclined not to finish off,
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 4: and I think maybe if I came back on the
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 4: show some months in the future, that's mine. I'd like
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 4: to carry on for here, because if you read this book, Chris,
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 4: you'll see when you get to the end, the ending is.
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 7: I love the end of the book, but I.
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 4: Will ruin it anyone that wants to read it if
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 4: I carry on with my conversation.
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know that's much to say, But to.
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 4: Say, Chris, that I have been on for the last
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 4: thirty years, quite an extraordinary journey. After this experience by
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 4: going off with a Mayan Indians, doing ceremonies in the
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 4: pyramids and stuff in the Stone Engine, all of this,
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 4: and then being outcoming a health practitioner, etc. So have
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 4: I did lower my lesson there? I learned a lesson
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 4: an extraordinary lesson really, and I realized now that my
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 4: inquisitive mind is there for a particular reason. My misbehavior
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 4: at school is a lack of understanding, not of myself
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 4: but of my peers around me. Nothing. There was nothing
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 4: wrong with me at school. The misbehaving is because you're
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 4: not very good at your job. You're an adult, Get
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 4: on with your job. Coherst the best out of me.
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 4: You couldn't. You couldn't do it. But now I'm an
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 4: adult and I am involved in some of the most
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 4: extraordinary things Chris, you know, from working with the mentally handicapped,
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 4: et cetera, to fixing people a fixed people all the time,
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 4: which I'll talk to you about probably, I don't know
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 4: whether it's talk to about it now or maybe after
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 4: this about doing something with you to do with veterans
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 4: and stuff which I'll which I would like to have
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 4: a quick chat you about whether I could mention it
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 4: now and.
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 2: Be like a, well, let's just explore a bit here
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 2: and if if you know, don't let me hold your
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 2: hostage to say something, to say stuff you don't want
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 2: to say. But obviously I'm curious because I had an
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 2: epiphany which for friends at home or people that watch
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 2: the show will know is your epiphanist gland?
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 3: Is your pineal gland?
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 4: Oh? Interesting, right? I okay, So I.
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 2: Actually had an epiphany at the lowest I think it's
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 2: possible to go with addiction before you're dead. And it
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 2: was that point where I was able to reconcile myself
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 2: with the notion of loving myself I think, which I
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 2: don't think. I never hated myself or nothing, but I
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 2: had to start treating that little boy inside me who
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 2: went through a lot of shit. I had to start
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 2: loving him instead of battering him, you know, instead of
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 2: like shoving needles in his arm and all this. And
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 2: that was a real Just the moment I got on
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 2: that kick, the heavens open up and this light, this
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 2: metaphorical comfort blanket just descended grabbed me and said, A,
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 2: everything's always going to be all right for the rest
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 2: of your life. Now you've stopped trying to control the situation.
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 3: And B.
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 2: I could be so happy with my life. It was
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 2: my life. And if I wanted to sit homeless in
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 2: a box on the street drinking whiskey, I'd be perfectly
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 2: content with that. Or if I want to be on
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 2: a Paradise Beach, you know, at the peak of fitness,
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 2: about to climb out Everest.
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 3: I could be happy that too.
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 2: It's my life and I make mynd And those two
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 2: things came out of a dicky And as anybody knows,
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 2: they've they've been with me ever since. I totally get
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 2: what you say. When we leave the past behind you,
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 2: absolutely you learn from it, You be grateful for it,
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 2: for what you've learned, and the emancipation comes in being
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 2: able to let it go because it no longer exists.
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 2: With this beautiful moment called the now, in which everything
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 2: takes away, there is never a future, is there. You know,
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 2: you never you know your holiday is not in the
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 2: future because when you experience your holidays now, you you
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 2: you know. So we spend so much time building up
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 2: for the future, but the future doesn't exist, only now.
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 2: So this is why I like to sort of explore
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 2: with my guests. Did you have you know, you've clearly
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 2: had sort of epiphanal moments? Was there.
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 4: That's the one? Yeah, it's that way, It's that one.
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 4: It's that one right there. It is absolutely that one.
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 4: There is that that is the moment, absolutely, the absolute moment.
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 4: No at no other time with all the traumas of
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 4: all manner of stuff, you know, from being chucked in
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 4: the block here. And I went to prison in Singapore,
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 4: and some things happened there that quite extreme. But no
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 4: no cloud round the head, no cloud around her head.
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 4: I was just getting the kick up the ass of it.
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 4: And then that, oh and that changed. That changed everything.
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 4: It changed everything. And to give you a funny antidote
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 4: to the to the to the little thing, he said,
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 4: there a girl that lives across the road read my
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 4: book and sat. About a month later, she stopped and
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 4: she round down the window and I said, oh, how
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 4: are you doing? I said, how did you get on
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 4: with the book? Then she said, I cannot believe that
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 4: you're such a well rounded person. After that and I said, well,
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 4: it's a story about someone that lived a long time ago.
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 4: That's what it's about. Said, and to reiterate what you said,
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 4: I said, and also there's another thing in my life.
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 4: I said, I don't live there, and I don't live there.
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 4: I live here, so these things don't apply to me.
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 4: I always live here. And she went all right, all right, okay,
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 4: and then off she drove, you know, and there's the
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 4: explanations I like yourself, you know, I don't.
• 1:50:23
  Speaker 7: I don't live there, and I don't live there.
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 4: It's only the only thing that's real is this that's
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 4: not real, that's in your mind, and that that thing
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 4: there that's in your mind, it's not you know, it's
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 4: you know, you could go back to the controversial subject
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 4: of I think I'm a woman, and you go, no,
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 4: that's the same. I give you the same explanation that
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 4: doesn't exist. That doesn't exist because it's in my mind
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 4: and you're thinking you're a woman. It's in your mind
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 4: as well. It's a thought, and thoughts aren't real. It's
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 4: a biological construct. Biological construct is everything. But you live
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 4: inside here and you think it's real. And that's a
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 4: big thing with people, isn't it. You know, you're you're
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 4: you're missed conceiving everything around you because you because most
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 4: people will will live here when they say there's some
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 4: future event, you don't.
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 7: It doesn't exist.
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 4: By the time you've got By the time you've got there,
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 4: you know to use a thing because I've got cat food.
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 4: By the time you got there, you know it didn't
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 4: have cat food. And you was concerned because you were
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 4: going to give the cat chicken and funny enough, it's
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 4: been so the future is different the cat beef. You know,
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 4: it's a silly thing, isn't so there you go, yeah.
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 2: And is there any It's a very funny thing. In enlightenment,
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 2: some people say you shouldn't even talk about it. If
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 2: you talk about it, that means that you're not enlightened.
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 2: And I just I think like they've been watching too
• 1:51:48
  Speaker 2: many Bruce Lee movies or something.
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 4: You know, Cardan's come through.
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah exactly, I say, well, that's a nonsense. It's a
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 2: physical state of biochemistry and your boy that you develop
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 2: by living a certain way and what Yeah, of course
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 2: it's not going to be for everyone. Hence in scripture
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 2: it says don't sew pearls in front of seals. It's
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 2: just means that you can't give wisdom to people that
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 2: are not ready for it. But there is a lot
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 2: of people out there that are ready. And I say
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 2: it's really simple, I mean really simple. Once you understand
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 2: the past doesn't exist in orders of the futures.
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 3: You've got the now.
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 2: Once you understand the concept of gratitude, if you're grateful
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 2: for this life, then then by very definition. You turn
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 2: every negative into a positive because everything's supposed to happen,
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 2: So getting angry at things that are supposed to happen
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 2: is just futile. And then on a physical note, because
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 2: I want my body in harmony with the energy, the
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 2: energy field, I personally exercise regularly. I nowadays lay off
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 2: all the you know, all the substances, including the alcohol.
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 2: I eat an alkaline diet so that my body's literally
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 2: like buzzing, buzzing with electroly like and I should say
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 2: pH neutral diet. There'll be someone in the comments going, yeah,
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 2: you can't be alkaline your diet. Yeah, yeah, I've done
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 2: this for twenty years. Believe me, I know what I'm
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 2: talking about.
• 1:53:20
  Speaker 3: And that's it.
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 2: In simple things like this morning, I got such satisfaction
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 2: making the bed that just told tells me that you
• 1:53:27
  Speaker 2: know I'm in control.
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 7: Yes, yes, And I'll give you.
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 4: I'll give you. I'll give you a funny example. The
• 1:53:33
  Speaker 4: other day, I do something. I do a particular physiotechnique.
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 4: It's very soft and anyway, this lady comes to see
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 4: and I do know anyway, when I'm working on it,
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 4: she said to me afterwards. Because I thought as are now.
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 4: She said, what do you think when you're treating someone?
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 4: I thought it's a good question. Good question A lot
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 4: of the time, which I explained to her, while I'm
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 4: treating you and doing these moves, I say to myself,
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 4: I love this, and she goes well, and I said,
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 4: sometimes I just sewed out, because I can just sewn
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 4: out and I'm really clear minded. But a lot of
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 4: the time when I'm doing something, I just go, oh,
• 1:54:14
  Speaker 4: I love this. And of course the byproduct of this
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 4: me enjoying myself, the person gets up and they've got
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 4: my pain. So why wouldn't you love that? Chris.
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 7: So there's that same I am in control. I'm in control.
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 4: Because I know what I like here and I love
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 4: doing this thing. Yeah yeah, So that on that same
• 1:54:37
  Speaker 4: thing where you have to have control of you who
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 4: you are. I understand you have to be able to
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 4: work out who you are. It's a big thick as well.
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 4: And because from what you're saying, some of us with
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 4: people that are watching this, haven't had major, a major
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 4: enlightening moment, if you like, Chris, where someone's got a
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 4: baseball bat and just smacked it across the back of
• 1:54:59
  Speaker 4: your head. Those you you don't need those, So a
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 4: lot of you don't need them. You can find that
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 4: enlightenment in a much easier way. It's just that we're
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 4: much more complex and much more difficult with ourselves. So
• 1:55:14
  Speaker 4: somebody somewhere had to go look fucking waky waking.
• 1:55:19
  Speaker 7: But a lot of you don't have to do that.
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 7: You know you can see it.
• 1:55:22
  Speaker 4: Grasp nice teachers, and you'll you'll see it when it
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 4: comes along. It will just just.
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 7: Go along like it. And they're why didn't nice see that? Well,
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 7: because you couldn't see it at the time.
• 1:55:33
  Speaker 4: Now you've educated yourself and are there is It's been
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 4: there all the time, and it hasn't. We both know that, Chris,
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 4: it's been there all the time. It's just that we've
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 4: been walking around with this. They're not even blinkers, Chris,
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 4: blindfold on, you know, smashing our way through life like
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 4: we know it right, we knew it and we didn't
• 1:55:53
  Speaker 4: tick just getting on, just getting on, wait, wait, waiting
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 4: for the hammer to come down.
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 2: Lutely, Dickie, this has been a great chat. Brother really
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 2: really enjoyed it. Friends at home, there's Dickie's book The
• 1:56:09
  Speaker 2: Rocky Road. I'll put there'll be an Amazon link in
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 2: a description.
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 7: Chris, can I just.
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 4: Stop you there? Can I just stop you there? There's
• 1:56:17
  Speaker 4: something else that I think potentially you would like to read.
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 4: It's only a fifty page book by Joanna Budwick, and
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 4: it's about flat soil. Okay, whether you agree with anything
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 4: to do with flax or she writes this, The only
• 1:56:33
  Speaker 4: reason I'm recommend it is because it's quite a life
• 1:56:36
  Speaker 4: changing insight into how your cells work with protons and neurons,
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 4: and what happens inside the cell to the outside of
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 4: fast tissue to the cell, and how you enhance your
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 4: cells to accept the sun. The sun rays your system
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 4: if it is in a heightened position where it is oxygenating,
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 4: which again you're talking alkaline which you're oxiate. Oxygenated allows
• 1:57:06
  Speaker 4: you as a human to take the energy from the sun,
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 4: but if you're deplete, you can't accept that energy. It
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 4: is a beautiful book to read. And again the fifty
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 4: six pages.
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 2: Is this Dr Joanna Budwig.
• 1:57:20
  Speaker 4: Yes, And to give you a background, Chris, I had
• 1:57:23
  Speaker 4: a look at Wikipedia and they give her a good kicking.
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 7: So I thought, all she's over the target here.
• 1:57:28
  Speaker 3: Let's absolutely over the target.
• 1:57:31
  Speaker 2: And just answer me this. I've got flat seeds downstairs.
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 2: I'll be honest. I've shied away from them because I
• 1:57:41
  Speaker 2: heard that they contain photo estrogen.
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 7: Yes, yeah, there's it. I've heard a lot of nonsense
• 1:57:46
  Speaker 7: about it too.
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and is that a misnomer then?
• 1:57:50
  Speaker 4: Or yeah, I'll see because if you get the book
• 1:57:52
  Speaker 4: and read the book, you will change your mind to completely.
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 4: I've see it away from flat soil because all I've
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 4: ever been told I haven't been told that. But it's
• 1:58:02
  Speaker 4: for these But for what did you say?
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 2: What did you say it's for I believe it's called
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 2: photo estrogen. So it's like a false estrogen that if
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 2: you are yeah, if bloaks take it, then then it
• 1:58:16
  Speaker 2: makes you mam boobs worse.
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 4: All right, So I've always been on the presson that
• 1:58:20
  Speaker 4: we can't actually digest it. She turns out completely on
• 1:58:24
  Speaker 4: its head completely it is.
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 7: Yeah, it's a breathtaking. It's a breathtaking.
• 1:58:30
  Speaker 4: It's very eye opening to health, to your health and
• 1:58:34
  Speaker 4: how we interreact with our environment as well as the food.
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 4: The some because the son is the giver of life,
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 4: and she stitches it together in such a way that
• 1:58:45
  Speaker 4: you go, it's another one of those moments in time
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 4: and you go, of course, of course, of course it
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 4: is what's the sun doing there? Gives us a life
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 4: because everything life, But if you haven't got the antenna
• 1:58:56
  Speaker 4: for it, you can't take that life giving energy just.
• 1:59:01
  Speaker 7: To give out at Anyway, it's a beautiful book.
• 1:59:04
  Speaker 2: Friends, Will put will put a link below. I'm just
• 1:59:07
  Speaker 2: making a note of this and sorry.
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 4: Chris, what were you saying anyway, I did. I am
• 1:59:13
  Speaker 4: enjoying the conversation. I'd like to do this again at
• 1:59:17
  Speaker 4: some time in the future. If you read the book
• 1:59:18
  Speaker 4: and you probably want to ask a couple of questions
• 1:59:21
  Speaker 4: and also to finish.
• 1:59:22
  Speaker 2: Your book, then absolutely, Yeah, let's let's have a hook
• 1:59:26
  Speaker 2: back up and let's talk a bit more.
• 1:59:28
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 1:59:28
  Speaker 2: The whole spiritual thing is I hate even to use
• 1:59:32
  Speaker 2: that word because people got such preconditioned notions of what
• 1:59:35
  Speaker 2: they think it means. And it's yeah, it's self understanding,
• 1:59:41
  Speaker 2: it's self understanding, but it's also the key to life.
• 1:59:44
  Speaker 2: And I was chatting with someone on the podcast one
• 1:59:47
  Speaker 2: day and they said, oh, well, Chris, you know, spirituality
• 1:59:50
  Speaker 2: means different things different I was like, no, it doesn't,
• 1:59:53
  Speaker 2: It literally doesn't. That's like saying, you know, a BMW
• 1:59:58
  Speaker 2: can be an AUDI to someone if they want it to,
• 2:00:02
  Speaker 2: it's not how it works. Spirituality is understanding your body's
• 2:00:06
  Speaker 2: bio chemical workings, and that if you get it right,
• 2:00:13
  Speaker 2: you become in tune with the universe rather than this separate,
• 2:00:16
  Speaker 2: you know, angry, aggressive, self determined entity that doesn't understand
• 2:00:21
  Speaker 2: why stuff doesn't work for them. And this is why
• 2:00:25
  Speaker 2: I say, jog around the block you get air in
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 2: your lungs.
• 2:00:28
  Speaker 3: It's what we did in the nature.
• 2:00:30
  Speaker 2: Eat a diet of what you'd collect when you wandered
• 2:00:33
  Speaker 2: through the forest, not when you develop shotguns and iron
• 2:00:37
  Speaker 2: traps and you know, all this stuff that's very recent
• 2:00:40
  Speaker 2: in our history. And and another one on that, folks,
• 2:00:45
  Speaker 2: you know, I'll just give the Supergreens a shout out.
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 2: There's a link below for the Supergreens.
• 2:00:50
  Speaker 3: Folks.
• 2:00:50
  Speaker 2: I may make a little bit of money off you
• 2:00:52
  Speaker 2: if you if you decide to purchase them. But that's
• 2:00:55
  Speaker 2: been the biggest thing in my life is I never
• 2:00:57
  Speaker 2: get ill. So when people get ill and they blame
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 2: it on like Dave down the shop, I kind of
• 2:01:03
  Speaker 2: chuckle a little bit and feel a bit sorry for
• 2:01:05
  Speaker 2: them that that's they genuinely believe that. Then all that
• 2:01:09
  Speaker 2: shit that they ate in the two bottles of wine
• 2:01:11
  Speaker 2: every night, and the brandy at Christmas, and the Christmas
• 2:01:14
  Speaker 2: cake and the Christmas pudding, and the turkey, and the
• 2:01:17
  Speaker 2: and the mass incessant need for carbohydrate which is just
• 2:01:22
  Speaker 2: sugar in the blood. And when they get ill from that,
• 2:01:26
  Speaker 2: it's not their fault. It's someone else's fault, you know.
• 2:01:29
  Speaker 2: And this is this is spiritual enlightenment. This is understanding
• 2:01:34
  Speaker 2: these simple concepts that if you ever go in a church,
• 2:01:38
  Speaker 2: they're going to hide from you because you know, that's
• 2:01:40
  Speaker 2: programming from the dark side, not the people in the church.
• 2:01:44
  Speaker 2: I mean the concept of organized religion and very simple
• 2:01:48
  Speaker 2: things to understand, Dicky, aren't they Yeah, go back to yeah,
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 2: there you go.
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 7: I always refer back to winning the poom.
• 2:01:55
  Speaker 4: And when people say to me, you know, this is
• 2:01:58
  Speaker 4: sort of a controversial probably a controversial subject for people.
• 2:02:02
  Speaker 4: But when you have Jewish people saying that Israel was
• 2:02:08
  Speaker 4: gifted to them three years ago because it's written in
• 2:02:12
  Speaker 4: this particular book, and I say to them, well, it's funny,
• 2:02:15
  Speaker 4: but Winnie the poo offered me and said that England
• 2:02:19
  Speaker 4: was mine, and are we use. Winnie the Perl is
• 2:02:21
  Speaker 4: an example. They're both fictitious, you know they're both. But
• 2:02:25
  Speaker 4: I give more credit to Winnie the Poo than I
• 2:02:27
  Speaker 4: do to your God then very much. So I think
• 2:02:29
  Speaker 4: I'll claim this country from a self Christ because I'm
• 2:02:32
  Speaker 4: sure you'd agree, and you're a Winnie the Pooh fan
• 2:02:35
  Speaker 4: as well, so it's ours.
• 2:02:37
  Speaker 3: There you go.
• 2:02:38
  Speaker 4: Honestly, I always refer back to Winnie the Poo's my God.
• 2:02:44
  Speaker 2: Here here, Dickie, listen, You're always welcome. Come back on
• 2:02:47
  Speaker 2: the show, brother Friends at Home. All the links of
• 2:02:51
  Speaker 2: the books we've talked about will be below the podcast
• 2:02:53
  Speaker 2: and the super greens. If you can like and subscribe
• 2:02:57
  Speaker 2: before we say goodbye, please like can subscribe because so
• 2:03:02
  Speaker 2: many people, Hey Chris, I haven't seen your show on
• 2:03:05
  Speaker 2: YouTube for years. I thought I thought you'd stopped. I'm like, no,
• 2:03:09
  Speaker 2: you're just not subscribed. That's why you didn't get to
• 2:03:11
  Speaker 2: hear of So if you can subscribe, folks, is what
• 2:03:14
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to say, that'd be awesome and massive. Thanks
• 2:03:18
  Speaker 2: to everyone. Like I said, who's who's chipped in five quid?
• 2:03:22
  Speaker 2: My upcoming every summit to shine a light for struggling veterans,
• 2:03:27
  Speaker 2: Dicky much love, brother stay stay on the line just
• 2:03:30
  Speaker 2: so I can thank you properly, but for the purposes
• 2:03:34
  Speaker 2: of the tape. Thank you very much. Massive love to
• 2:03:37
  Speaker 2: everybody at home. We'll see you soon. Cheers, cheers.
• 2:03:40
  Speaker 4: That's good friends.
• 2:03:44
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the Bought the t Shirt Podcast.
• 2:03:47
  Speaker 1: Please like, subscribe, and share, and don't forget to follow
• 2:03:51
  Speaker 1: me on social media. Use the name Chris Throll, Instagram,
• 2:03:58
  Speaker 1: Chris dot Throll.
• 2:04:00
  Speaker 3: Thank you.