Latest / Drive with John Perlman / Over the Bosasa corruption network, Agrizzi condemned to pay the State over R1.7 billion

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Over the Bosasa corruption network, Agrizzi condemned to pay the State over R1.7 billion · Drive with John Perlman

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Well, let's turn to this matter now. The former chief
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: operating officer of the company Bussasa, Angelo Agrizi, has been
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: ordered to pay the state more than 1.66 billion rand.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: This after the Gauteng High Court in Pretoria found that
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: he had benefited from his company's corruption network, something that
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: was laid bare in huge detail. Firstly, at the Zondo
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Commission of Inquiry, Mr. Grizi himself providing many of the
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: details of what had gone on. Some people are saying, though, well,
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: two questions are being asked, I suppose. The one is,
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: shouldn't other people also have to pay some money? uh,
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: from the wrongdoing. Um, and secondly, of course, you know,
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: it's all very well to say you owe us 1.66
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: billion Rand, but what happens if you don't have it? Uh,
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Kaiser Kanyako is a spokesperson for the national prosecuting authority.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: They have welcomed this, uh, ruling by the court and
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: to explain why we joined now by Mr. Kanyako, uh,
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: welcome to the show. And thanks very much for giving
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: us your time. Um, The first question that I set out,
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: I mean, Mr. Agrizi very clearly involved in this criminality
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: and stealing from the public purse is now a matter
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: of judicial record. But there were surely other people. I mean,
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: is this something inherently unfair? I mean, shouldn't some of
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: the money come from some of the others?
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: Thank you very much, John, and to the listeners. Yes,
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: you must remember that we are dealing with this matter
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: separate from the others. When this matter was brought, they
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: were all joined together. And because of Mr. Chris's health,
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: we then separated the matter and he entered into the
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: plea settlement agreement alone. Therefore, the matter for the others
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: is still continuing and to be dealt with accordingly when
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: the time comes.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: Okay, so in terms then of, you know, judges can say, okay, well,
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: you owe us almost 1.7 billion rand. Is this to
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: a degree symbolic or are you expecting to get some
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: money at least? I'm sure nobody's expecting the full amount
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: to be paid because that money would never have gone
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: to Mr.
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: Grizi personally.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: It is not symbolic. It is the money that we
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: want to recover from him. But as you must read
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: from the order, therefore in a case where obviously we
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: can't get the money but there are properties because one
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: of the things that made the judges to agree with
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: us among others is the fact that he was not
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: honest about his properties. especially the ones overseas. Therefore, we'll
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: have to look into that process. But if it comes
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: to a point where we realize that we cannot get
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: the whole amount, we have to then go back to
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: the cost to vary that order so that we are
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: able to then get a lesser amount if that is
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: the case. But at the end, for now, this is
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: the money that we want. We've calculated it meticulously. As
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: you might see, it even goes to the cent of
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: the benefits that they have benefited on.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: And just to be very clear, in the context of
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: what you've just said, Mr. Kanyako, how has that amount
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: arrived at? Was that derived from the facts of the
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: case and the extent to which.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: Will you tell me? Let me not prefigure your explanation.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: How did we get to 1.66 billion?
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: Well, it came from the facts of the case. We
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: looked at all the money that they got from correctional services.
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: and then we then calculated the involvement and common purpose
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: of all of them into this process, and then we
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: came to that figure.
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: In terms, then, of what happens next, what does happen next?
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: As far as Mr. Greene is concerned, we have dealt
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: with the criminal side of things. He has pleaded and
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: he was sentenced, and therefore even though the sentence was
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: suspended only, And then this was the second phase of recovery,
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: which we are fed up with. And as far as
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: he's concerned, we are done with that part. Then we'll
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: then go back and look at the other people that
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: were involved in this matter with him, like Mr. Linda
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: and the others.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: And I did say finally, but finally, finally, I mean,
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: you referred to the properties and assets overseas that belonged
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: to Mr. Agrizi, about which you say he was not
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: honest in his dealings and engagements. If those were to
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: be recovered and if it's fixed property, they'd have to
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: be sold and monetized. To what extent are we at
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: the mercy of cooperation with the Italian authorities? It's not
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: an extradition, but I don't know if it's related or
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: at least akin to an extradition.
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, this is not an extradition, but it will
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: then be part of the arrangements that we have signed
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: with all the countries, specifically with Italy, only in terms
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: of mutual legal assistance. Therefore, that's where we will take it.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much, Kaiser Kanyako, spokesperson for the National Prosecuting Authority.
• 5:28
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• 5:52
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