Latest / Beyond The Horizon / Mega Edition: 5 Key Pieces Of Evidence Against Kohberger According to Experts (8/28/26)

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Mega Edition: 5 Key Pieces Of Evidence Against Kohberger According to Experts (8/28/26) · Beyond The Horizon

0:00
Speaker 1: What's up everyone and welcome back to the program. Brian
0:05
Speaker 1: Koberger's lawyer is saying that no DNA was found in
0:10
Speaker 1: Brian Koberger's home or in Brian Koberger's car. So therefore,
0:15
Speaker 1: Brian Koberger can't be the guy who did this. And
0:19
Speaker 1: according to them, the fact that no DNA was present
0:23
Speaker 1: in the vehicle or in Koberger's home confirms it. So
0:27
Speaker 1: let's get to this article from Newsweek. And let's get
0:30
Speaker 1: caught up. Headline, Brian Koberger's lawyer says no victim DNA
0:36
Speaker 1: found in suspect's home or car. This article was authored
0:40
Speaker 1: by Kalita Rockman. Brian Koberger's attorney has said in a
0:45
Speaker 1: new court filing that no DNA belonging to the four
0:49
Speaker 1: University of Idaho students he is accused of murdering was
0:53
Speaker 1: found in his home or his vehicle. And with a
0:56
Speaker 1: crime so gruesome, you would think that there's transferred DNA, right?
1:00
Speaker 1: Brought with him from the scene of the crime into
1:02
Speaker 1: his vehicle and into his house. But that's not the case,
1:06
Speaker 1: according to Brian Kohlberger's lawyers. Or did Brian Kohlberger wear
1:11
Speaker 1: some kind of murder outfit, some kind of coverall suit
1:14
Speaker 1: or something like that, and then ditch it when he
1:17
Speaker 1: was taking this scenic route home? Remember when we were
1:20
Speaker 1: first talking about that, I said he took that long
1:22
Speaker 1: way because he was getting rid of evidence. Did that
1:25
Speaker 1: evidence include some sort of protective suit he was wearing
1:29
Speaker 1: to keep the DNA from transferring onto him? Very possible. Now,
1:34
Speaker 1: just my speculation, of course, but it's certainly possible. Remember,
1:38
Speaker 1: we're talking about somebody who was a criminology student, so
1:42
Speaker 1: I don't think it's too crazy to think that Brian
1:45
Speaker 1: Kohlberger would have had a plan coming into something like
1:47
Speaker 1: this as far as what he's going to be wearing,
1:50
Speaker 1: where he's going to discard the stuff he was wearing
1:53
Speaker 1: while the murders happened. and all of the rest of
1:56
Speaker 1: the stuff you would expect from somebody who's trying to
1:58
Speaker 1: get away with a murder. And if it wasn't for
2:01
Speaker 1: the DNA on that sheath, they really wouldn't have anything
2:04
Speaker 1: to go on here to connect them to Brian Kohlberger.
2:08
Speaker 1: So the fact that he messed up, allegedly, and left
2:11
Speaker 1: that sheath behind after allegedly murdering these college students is
2:16
Speaker 1: the one thing that binds him to the rest of
2:19
Speaker 1: this evidence. So if his legal team can find a
2:22
Speaker 1: way to get the DNA evidence tossed, then that's a
2:26
Speaker 1: gigantic blow to the prosecution's case because that DNA is
2:30
Speaker 1: the glue that's binding everything together. And while the other
2:33
Speaker 1: evidence they have is relatively strong, you can't thread that
2:37
Speaker 1: all together to make a case without that DNA to
2:40
Speaker 1: bind it. So if they can find a way to
2:42
Speaker 1: toss the DNA, if they can find a way to
2:44
Speaker 1: challenge it, then they'll have a pathway maybe to try
2:48
Speaker 1: and stir up some reasonable doubt with the jurors. Kohlberger
2:53
Speaker 1: is charged with four counts of first-degree murder and of
2:56
Speaker 1: burglary in connection with the stabbing deaths of Kaylee Gonsalves,
2:59
Speaker 1: Madison Mogan, Zanna Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin. Their bodies were
3:04
Speaker 1: found at a rental home across the street from the
3:07
Speaker 1: University of Idaho campus in Moscow, Idaho, on November 13, 2022.
3:14
Speaker 1: At the time of their deaths, Kohlberger was a graduate
3:16
Speaker 1: student studying criminology at nearby Washington State University in Pullman.
3:22
Speaker 1: He was arrested at his parents' home in Pennsylvania on
3:25
Speaker 1: December 30th. He stood silent at his arraignment last month,
3:29
Speaker 1: prompting the judge to enter not guilty pleas on his behalf.
3:35
Speaker 1: A trial has been scheduled to begin October 2nd, though
3:39
Speaker 1: legal experts say it could be delayed. Prosecutors have yet
3:43
Speaker 1: to reveal if they intend to seek the death penalty,
3:46
Speaker 1: and prosecutors have like 30 days now to declare whether
3:50
Speaker 1: they're going to go after the death penalty or not here.
3:53
Speaker 1: So time is certainly of the essence. Earlier in June,
3:57
Speaker 1: prosecutors filed a motion for a protective order seeking to
4:01
Speaker 1: protect from disclosure information related to the use of investigative
4:06
Speaker 1: genetic genealogy in the case. In the filing, they said
4:10
Speaker 1: investigators used it to hone in on Kohlberger as a
4:13
Speaker 1: suspect and that his DNA is a statistical match to
4:17
Speaker 1: DNA that was on a knife sheath found at the
4:20
Speaker 1: crime scene. Now, this is their biggest problem. How is
4:24
Speaker 1: the defense going to explain that DNA on that sheath? Now,
4:29
Speaker 1: they can challenge the DNA ruling, maybe, but if it
4:32
Speaker 1: comes back that it's Brian Kohlberger's DNA on that sheath,
4:37
Speaker 1: they're going to have a very hard time explaining to
4:39
Speaker 1: a jury how that knife sheath ended up halfway underneath
4:43
Speaker 1: a murdered girl in the house that contained three other
4:47
Speaker 1: murdered people. So his team is going to have to
4:50
Speaker 1: explain that. And if they can't challenge the validity of
4:53
Speaker 1: the testing, I don't know how they plan on doing that.
4:57
Speaker 1: And for me, that's always been the biggest hurdle for
4:59
Speaker 1: Brian Koberger's team. This DNA evidence, it puts him there.
5:03
Speaker 1: And not only does it put them there, it connects
5:05
Speaker 1: all the other dots. In a Friday filing objecting to
5:09
Speaker 1: the state's request, an attorney representing Kohlberger wrote that another
5:13
Speaker 1: area of the investigation involved a white sedan seen near
5:17
Speaker 1: the crime scene. A probable cause affidavit, unsealed in January,
5:22
Speaker 1: said that investigators traced a vehicle that was seen speeding
5:25
Speaker 1: away from the crime scene to a white Hyundai Elantra
5:29
Speaker 1: registered to Kohlberger. It remains unclear what the police first
5:33
Speaker 1: relied on in focusing their investigation on Mr. Kohlberger. Jay Weston-Lodgson,
5:39
Speaker 1: an attorney for the Kootenai County Public Defender's Office, wrote
5:42
Speaker 1: in a recent filing. So what they're asserting here is
5:45
Speaker 1: that they picked Brian Kohlberger out of a hat. That's
5:48
Speaker 1: what they're trying to say. Oh, there was no real investigation.
5:52
Speaker 1: Kohlberger just fit the parameters of their investigation, and then
5:56
Speaker 1: they fit him into a little box. But the DNA
5:59
Speaker 1: evidence at the crime scene tells a different story. And
6:03
Speaker 1: until we get an explanation about why his DNA was
6:06
Speaker 1: on that knife sheath and why that knife sheath was
6:09
Speaker 1: at the crime scene, then I'm going to have to
6:11
Speaker 1: continue to think that Brian Kohlberger is the right guy. Now, however,
6:16
Speaker 1: we still have to have a trial, right? Just because
6:19
Speaker 1: I'm leaning towards him being guilty doesn't mean that my
6:22
Speaker 1: opinion can't be changed. I follow the evidence. Wherever it
6:26
Speaker 1: leads me, that's where I go. But so far, all
6:29
Speaker 1: we've heard from Brian Kohlberger's legal team is a bunch
6:33
Speaker 1: of assertions and a bunch of misdirection, really. The fact
6:37
Speaker 1: is this, that sheath was found at the crime scene.
6:41
Speaker 1: The DNA on that sheath, according to the authorities, matched
6:45
Speaker 1: back to Brian Kohlberger. So until that's explained, it's going
6:49
Speaker 1: to be very difficult for the defense to to win
6:52
Speaker 1: any kind of public relations battle, and certainly going to
6:56
Speaker 1: be a monumental task inside of the courtroom. No matter
7:00
Speaker 1: what came first, the car or the genetic genealogy, the
7:04
Speaker 1: investigation has provided precious little. There is no connection between Mr.
7:08
Speaker 1: Kohlberger and the victims. There is no explanation for the
7:12
Speaker 1: total lack of DNA evidence from the victims in Mr.
7:15
Speaker 1: Kohlberger's apartment, office, home, or vehicle, unless he was wearing
7:20
Speaker 1: a kill suit that he got rid of What, that's
7:22
Speaker 1: not possible? That's out of the realm of possibility? Not
7:26
Speaker 1: in my opinion. You would think that somebody like Brian
7:28
Speaker 1: Koberger would be prepared if he's going into a house
7:32
Speaker 1: to kill somebody. And again, if it wasn't for that
7:35
Speaker 1: sheath being left there, this dude would still be teaching
7:39
Speaker 1: at Washington State University probably. Lodgson wrote that through the
7:43
Speaker 1: lack of disclosure and their motion to protect the genetic
7:46
Speaker 1: genealogy investigation, the state is hiding its entire case. That's
7:51
Speaker 1: pretty funny coming from Lodgson, considering how adamant Lodgson and
7:56
Speaker 1: the defense has been about the gag order. All of
7:59
Speaker 1: a sudden, everything's being tried in secret, huh? Well, isn't
8:03
Speaker 1: that what you wanted when you went and fought tooth
8:05
Speaker 1: and nail for the gag order? But now that you
8:07
Speaker 1: think that something is worthwhile and it's something that's going
8:10
Speaker 1: to be beneficial to your client. Oh, well, we don't
8:14
Speaker 1: want this under gag order. We don't want this done
8:17
Speaker 1: under secrecy. Here's an idea. How about no secrecy and
8:21
Speaker 1: just straight-up transparency for everybody involved? And thankfully, Judge Judge
8:27
Speaker 1: has made a step towards that goal by paring back
8:30
Speaker 1: the gag order. The filing also noted that lab analysts
8:34
Speaker 1: were aware of DNA from two other unidentified males in
8:39
Speaker 1: the house where the murders occurred, as well as DNA
8:42
Speaker 1: belonging to another unknown male on a glove found outside. Well...
8:47
Speaker 1: There's always people at that house. You would expect there
8:49
Speaker 1: to be a bunch of unknown DNA profiles. How many
8:53
Speaker 1: of those DNA profiles were on the knife sheath? Don't
8:56
Speaker 1: try and misdirect me. I don't care about DNA profiles
9:00
Speaker 1: elsewhere in the house. We're talking about the knife sheath.
9:03
Speaker 1: Nima Rahmani, a former federal prosecutor and president of West
9:08
Speaker 1: Coast trial lawyers, told Newsweek that if what the defense
9:11
Speaker 1: is saying is true, that poses a problem for the prosecution. Oh, yeah, well,
9:17
Speaker 1: I'm sure it would. But is it true? That's the
9:19
Speaker 1: real question. Remember, just because the defense attorney is asserting
9:24
Speaker 1: this doesn't make it true. That's their job to try
9:27
Speaker 1: and sow seeds of doubt. So what they're going to
9:30
Speaker 1: do is challenge everything the prosecution has to say. And
9:33
Speaker 1: they're going to try and set the narrative that their
9:36
Speaker 1: client is being railroaded. Rachmani said you would expect a
9:40
Speaker 1: lot more DNA than a single source at such a
9:43
Speaker 1: gruesome crime scene. The defense will argue that the testing
9:46
Speaker 1: is inaccurate or the DNA was transferred and that the
9:50
Speaker 1: DNA of three other men was present at the house.
9:53
Speaker 1: And then the prosecution is going to contend that there's
9:57
Speaker 1: going to be DNA profiles from plenty of people at
9:59
Speaker 1: the house. It was a party house. We all know that.
10:03
Speaker 1: But what's Brian Kohlberger's DNA doing on that sheath? And
10:07
Speaker 1: just to be clear, nowhere in that court filing by
10:10
Speaker 1: the defense do they assert that anyone else's DNA is
10:14
Speaker 1: on that sheath. So all this other talk It's misdirection,
10:19
Speaker 1: in my opinion, and trying to build the narrative that
10:22
Speaker 1: Kohlberger is being railroaded and there's an unknown assailant out
10:25
Speaker 1: there somewhere. Well, okay, but we're going to need to
10:28
Speaker 1: see the evidence of that, right? You can't just assert
10:32
Speaker 1: something and think everybody's going to believe it. Big claims
10:36
Speaker 1: need big evidence. And if you don't have that evidence, well,
10:39
Speaker 1: why should anyone believe you? One would also expect the
10:44
Speaker 1: DNA of the victims to be found in Koberger's apartment, home, office,
10:48
Speaker 1: or vehicle. That would be the smoking gun evidence the
10:51
Speaker 1: prosecution wants to convict Koberger and put him to death. Well,
10:55
Speaker 1: I would caution that we don't know all of the
10:57
Speaker 1: evidence that the prosecution has yet. And some of it
11:01
Speaker 1: might be under seal still. There's a lot going on
11:03
Speaker 1: behind the scenes. Now that this gag order has been
11:06
Speaker 1: pared back a little bit, We should get a little
11:08
Speaker 1: bit more clarification from people in the know, but my
11:12
Speaker 1: guess is there's a lot going on behind the scenes
11:15
Speaker 1: here as far as inside of the courtroom that we
11:18
Speaker 1: just don't know about. Remember, they went to a grand
11:20
Speaker 1: jury and nobody even knew that they were going to
11:24
Speaker 1: the grand jury in the first place. So what else
11:26
Speaker 1: is going on behind the scenes and what else is
11:28
Speaker 1: being kept as a sealed record? The lack of DNA
11:32
Speaker 1: evidence at these locations could point to sophistication on the
11:36
Speaker 1: suspect's part, Rahmani said. It will also force the state
11:39
Speaker 1: to rely heavily on other types of evidence, including video
11:44
Speaker 1: and cell phone, he added. Michael McAuliffe, a federal prosecutor
11:48
Speaker 1: and elected state attorney, told Newsweek that Kohlberger's defense team
11:52
Speaker 1: is pushing for disclosure of the original reasons why Kohlberger
11:56
Speaker 1: became the focus of the investigation and the methodology of
12:00
Speaker 1: the DNA sampling and use of databases to narrow the
12:04
Speaker 1: testing for Kohlberger. He added, The issue of a protective
12:08
Speaker 1: order is being used to poke and prod on the
12:11
Speaker 1: potentially most devastating evidence against the defendant. His alleged DNA
12:16
Speaker 1: on a distinctive item in the victim's home and the
12:19
Speaker 1: scene of the murders. It's paramount that the defendant dissemble
12:23
Speaker 1: the DNA evidence in the case. The litigation over the
12:26
Speaker 1: discovery process is just one vehicle to do so. Exactly
12:30
Speaker 1: what I told you. That's what they're doing. The whole
12:33
Speaker 1: idea is to try and throw some water on this
12:36
Speaker 1: DNA evidence. And they're going to assert all sorts of
12:39
Speaker 1: things in these court filings that doesn't make them true.
12:42
Speaker 1: And one thing I've learned covering cases like this is
12:45
Speaker 1: that these defense attorneys, they love to make bombastic claims
12:49
Speaker 1: that are never backed up. Remember all the nonsense we
12:51
Speaker 1: heard from Hart Putlian over there in the Murdaugh trial?
12:55
Speaker 1: Remember what we heard from Jim Archibald in the Lori
12:58
Speaker 1: Vallow trial? Remember what we heard from Bobby Sternum in
13:02
Speaker 1: the Glenn Maxwell trial? So it's always the same nonsense, right?
13:07
Speaker 1: And then it's the same story. The media picks it up.
13:10
Speaker 1: And then there's a whole news cycle about how the
13:12
Speaker 1: evidence isn't that strong. And so-and-so is going to walk.
13:16
Speaker 1: Until it becomes time for trial. And the evidence gets
13:19
Speaker 1: dropped on them like a ton of bricks. On Friday,
13:23
Speaker 1: 2nd District Judge... John Judge denied a request from around
13:27
Speaker 1: two dozen news organizations to lift a gag order in
13:30
Speaker 1: the case, but did significantly narrow it. The revised gag order,
13:35
Speaker 1: formerly called a non-dissemination order, prohibits any attorneys representing parties, victims,
13:42
Speaker 1: or witnesses in the case for making statements that could
13:46
Speaker 1: have a substantial likelihood of materially prejudicing or otherwise influencing
13:52
Speaker 1: the outcome of the case. The attorneys are allowed to
13:55
Speaker 1: comment about information contained in the public record, procedural issues, scheduling,
14:00
Speaker 1: and make statements that a lawyer would reasonably believe is
14:04
Speaker 1: required to protect their client from the substantial undue prejudicial
14:09
Speaker 1: effect of recent publicity not initiated by the lawyer or
14:13
Speaker 1: the lawyer's client. They are also barred from sharing opinions
14:17
Speaker 1: about the guilt or innocence of a defendant outside of
14:21
Speaker 1: the courtroom or the identity or nature of evidence expected
14:24
Speaker 1: to be presented at trial or information that they know
14:29
Speaker 1: wouldn't be admitted in court. They also cannot speak about
14:33
Speaker 1: the character or credibility of a witness, expected testimony, or
14:38
Speaker 1: the likelihood of a plea deal. Newsweek has contacted Brian
14:42
Speaker 1: Koberger's defense team for comment via email. So look, there's
14:46
Speaker 1: a lot going on and a lot of back and
14:48
Speaker 1: forth is certainly happening when it comes to those court filings.
14:52
Speaker 1: And that's why we've been on top of them the
14:54
Speaker 1: way we have been. Because without those court filings, we
14:57
Speaker 1: don't have a blueprint as to what's going on here. Now,
15:00
Speaker 1: with this request that they're making and some of the
15:03
Speaker 1: assertions that they're making, I would expect the prosecution to
15:07
Speaker 1: come out swinging as early as next week. And I
15:10
Speaker 1: would expect some filings starting Monday or Tuesday. answering some
15:15
Speaker 1: of these assertions by the defense. So things are certainly
15:19
Speaker 1: heating up, folks, and we're going to be here every
15:21
Speaker 1: step of the way until the trial's completion. Think ahead.
15:26
Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the program. Today,
15:31
Speaker 1: we have an article that's discussing the five key pieces
15:35
Speaker 1: of evidence against Brian Koberger. Now, ever since he's been arrested,
15:40
Speaker 1: We have been getting a little bit here, a little
15:43
Speaker 1: bit there about who he was, who his friends were,
15:46
Speaker 1: what he was up to, and some of his behavior
15:49
Speaker 1: in the aftermath of these murders. Well, what is the
15:52
Speaker 1: evidence that has led the investigators to believe that Brian
15:56
Speaker 1: Koberger is the man responsible for these murders? Well, let's
16:01
Speaker 1: get to this episode from Fox News and let's see
16:05
Speaker 1: what Paul Morrow has for us. Headline, Idaho Murders. five
16:10
Speaker 1: key pieces of evidence against Brian Koberger. This article was
16:15
Speaker 1: authored by Paul Morrow. He is still only the accused
16:21
Speaker 1: and must be considered innocent until proven guilty. But the
16:24
Speaker 1: case against Brian Koberger for the Idaho homicides appears strong.
16:30
Speaker 1: There remains much we don't know, and there is much
16:33
Speaker 1: more investigation and evidence to come. But with the recent
16:37
Speaker 1: release of the arrest warrant affidavit, Here's how the prosecution's
16:41
Speaker 1: evidence is stacking up. The knife sheath DNA. Currently, this
16:48
Speaker 1: is the only evidence that is direct and not circumstantial.
16:52
Speaker 1: And that is true. Everything we have seen so far
16:56
Speaker 1: is circumstantial. And if we didn't have all of the evidence,
17:00
Speaker 1: the circumstantial evidence that we do have, I would be
17:03
Speaker 1: less inclined to believe that Koberger might be the guy here.
17:07
Speaker 1: But everything that we have, the circumstantial evidence, that all
17:10
Speaker 1: leads to something bigger. And all of that circumstantial evidence,
17:15
Speaker 1: that is all built upon. And before you know it,
17:17
Speaker 1: you have an ironclad case. At least that's the hope
17:21
Speaker 1: of the prosecution. In the absence of the knife itself,
17:25
Speaker 1: having a sheath that matches to the same knife that
17:28
Speaker 1: caused the wounds, a fact which will need to be demonstrated.
17:31
Speaker 1: found literally besides the body of one of the victims
17:35
Speaker 1: is going to be tough to refute. And I am
17:38
Speaker 1: 100% on board with that. How are you going to
17:42
Speaker 1: explain this knife sheath in the bed with Kaylee and
17:46
Speaker 1: Madison and with your DNA on it? That's going to
17:50
Speaker 1: be a tough sell in the best of times. That
17:53
Speaker 1: would be a tough sell if you had OJ Simpson's
17:56
Speaker 1: dream team defending you. So I don't know how he's
18:00
Speaker 1: going to get around that one or how his defense
18:02
Speaker 1: team plans on challenging the veracity of that evidence. Yes,
18:08
Speaker 1: as some have proposed, Koberger could contend that someone stole
18:13
Speaker 1: or found his knife. Aside from being far-fetched, this is
18:17
Speaker 1: unlikely to persuade because this hypothetical person's handling of the
18:21
Speaker 1: K-Bar through gripping, sweating, and perhaps even shedding his own
18:25
Speaker 1: blood before Koberger and during the attacks would have likely
18:29
Speaker 1: have obfuscated any DNA of Kohlbergers. It is significant that
18:34
Speaker 1: the affidavit pointedly states that only a single source of
18:37
Speaker 1: male DNA suspect profile was found on the sheath. So
18:42
Speaker 1: they have their work cut out for them, meaning the
18:44
Speaker 1: defense attorneys. I don't know how they're going to explain this.
18:47
Speaker 1: There was no one else's DNA on it. And even
18:50
Speaker 1: if you say, oh, it was stolen. Well, how do
18:52
Speaker 1: you prove that? How do you prove that your knife
18:55
Speaker 1: was stolen? and used in these murders. Now, if it
19:00
Speaker 1: was just the knife in the sheath, I could see
19:02
Speaker 1: you trying to make a logical defense around that. But
19:05
Speaker 1: with everything else that basically puts this dude at the
19:09
Speaker 1: scene of the crime, forget it. And we haven't even
19:11
Speaker 1: talked about yet the fact that he could have been
19:14
Speaker 1: caught on a router at the King Road home or
19:18
Speaker 1: one of the neighbor's homes. What if his Wi-Fi connected
19:20
Speaker 1: to it? There's going to be a trace of that.
19:23
Speaker 1: There's going to be a bit of evidence of that.
19:26
Speaker 1: So if that's the case, that's just going to be
19:28
Speaker 1: stronger evidence for the prosecution moving forward. And if the
19:34
Speaker 1: DNA on the knife was extracted from a splatter of
19:37
Speaker 1: Koberger's own blood, then even that weak defense goes out
19:41
Speaker 1: the window. At this point, the DNA is the linchpin.
19:45
Speaker 1: It is no accident that the probable cause affidavit, which
19:48
Speaker 1: is written chronologically, concludes with a DNA match to Koberger's father.
19:53
Speaker 1: It was at that point that the investigators knew it
19:56
Speaker 1: was time to take the case down. So once they
20:00
Speaker 1: had that match and they were relatively sure of the
20:03
Speaker 1: person they were looking for, well, they moved in. The
20:07
Speaker 1: car videos. No license plate was obtained from the videos. Nonetheless,
20:12
Speaker 1: Koberger's car not only matches the car make and model
20:16
Speaker 1: filmed near the scene, but it also coincides with the
20:19
Speaker 1: movement of his mobile phone before and after the murders.
20:23
Speaker 1: For instance, there is this sequence that occurs as the
20:26
Speaker 1: car is tracked leaving the scene and after the Koberger
20:29
Speaker 1: phone has apparently been turned off. 4.48am, phone goes live
20:34
Speaker 1: again on State Highway 95 south of Moscow. 4.50 to 5.26 a.m.,
20:40
Speaker 1: phone travels south on Route 95 to Genesee, Idaho, then west,
20:45
Speaker 1: then north back towards Pullman. 5.25 a.m., car on video
20:50
Speaker 1: at Washington State University, 1300 Johnson Road, Pullman, in the
20:54
Speaker 1: vicinity of the suspect's home. 5.27 a.m., car on video
20:59
Speaker 1: at WSU along Stadium Way, vicinity of suspect's home. 5.30 a.m.,
21:05
Speaker 1: phone pings at the Koberger home. Could Koberger contend that
21:10
Speaker 1: it wasn't his car? Certainly. But why then would it
21:14
Speaker 1: exactly match the movements of his cell phone? And this
21:17
Speaker 1: is what I've said. All of this other little stuff
21:20
Speaker 1: that might not seem important or might seem mundane on
21:23
Speaker 1: its own, it all adds up to the bigger picture here.
21:26
Speaker 1: And that bigger picture is pointing directly at Koberger. And
21:32
Speaker 1: now that the task force has the car, It may
21:34
Speaker 1: well yield further forensic evidence no matter how hard he
21:37
Speaker 1: tried to clean it. Oh, that's a fact. If there's
21:40
Speaker 1: forensic evidence to be found in that car, no matter
21:43
Speaker 1: how much he cleaned it, they're going to find it.
21:46
Speaker 1: They have all kinds of ways of finding old blood
21:49
Speaker 1: and even just a trace amount. Digital phone forensics. Like
21:55
Speaker 1: the car, the pings Koberger's phone sent to nearby cell
21:58
Speaker 1: phone towers are more circumstantial than direct. But taken with
22:02
Speaker 1: the movement of his car, this will be tough to refute. Further,
22:06
Speaker 1: what possible reason could Koberger give for his phone being
22:10
Speaker 1: in close proximity to the victim's house 12 times in
22:13
Speaker 1: the months leading up to the murders, 11 of those
22:16
Speaker 1: late at night? So again, the totality of what we
22:21
Speaker 1: see here is very damning for Brian Koberger. How are
22:25
Speaker 1: you going to explain this? Look, I'm not a lawyer, right?
22:28
Speaker 1: So I certainly don't have the training, but in my opinion,
22:31
Speaker 1: dude better call Saul. Could he contend someone else had
22:37
Speaker 1: his phone? That would require him to identify this person. Unlikely.
22:41
Speaker 1: Could he contend that he lost his phone or that
22:44
Speaker 1: it was stolen? Sure. But why didn't he report that
22:47
Speaker 1: and cancel it? And if so, how to explain that
22:50
Speaker 1: the phone's activity continued to fit the pattern of his
22:53
Speaker 1: own use, calling family, for instance. So you see, all
22:57
Speaker 1: of these little reasons that Koberger could use for this
23:03
Speaker 1: not being him and him not being involved, none of
23:06
Speaker 1: them are sound and none of them are going to
23:09
Speaker 1: convince a jury. Aside from the fact that he would
23:13
Speaker 1: have to explain why in the middle of the night
23:16
Speaker 1: he was regularly in an area 10 miles from his home,
23:19
Speaker 1: There is this. According to a recent interview of Steve Gonsalves,
23:23
Speaker 1: the father of victim Kaylee Gonsalves, Kohlberger, at times, was
23:28
Speaker 1: so close to the victim's house, his phone was picked
23:31
Speaker 1: up by their Wi-Fi. It's a wrap, folks. If that's
23:34
Speaker 1: the case, creepy-ass Kohlberger is as good as cooked. The eyewitness.
23:44
Speaker 1: Much has been made of Dylan Mortensen's delay in calling
23:46
Speaker 1: the police. What has been somewhat overlooked, however, is that
23:50
Speaker 1: her description of his height, physique, and bushy eyebrows were
23:53
Speaker 1: all confirmatory as Koberger became a suspect. Now, I think
23:58
Speaker 1: that of all of their evidence, her looking at Koberger
24:02
Speaker 1: here in a mask is probably the weakest evidence they have.
24:06
Speaker 1: Because how are you going to tell who's who underneath
24:09
Speaker 1: that mask? Sure, he could fit the description, the same build,
24:13
Speaker 1: the bushy eyebrows, but you can't confirm 100% anyway. that
24:17
Speaker 1: that was Brian Koberger. If you doubt that, consider this.
24:23
Speaker 1: On November 29th, roughly two weeks after the murders, two
24:26
Speaker 1: separate Washington State University campus police officers discovered Koberger's car
24:32
Speaker 1: as a match to the Hyundai Elantra the task force
24:35
Speaker 1: was seeking. They, or the task force, member would next
24:39
Speaker 1: have looked at the license photo of the car's owner.
24:42
Speaker 1: Now ask yourself, would Koberger be in custody if Dylan
24:46
Speaker 1: had described him as 5'3 and heavily overweight? And even
24:50
Speaker 1: if so, would the case be anywhere near as strong?
24:54
Speaker 1: That's a good point, honestly. Definitely a good point. And
24:57
Speaker 1: maybe I should reevaluate about this being the weakest part
25:01
Speaker 1: of the evidence. It would just seem to me that
25:03
Speaker 1: in front of a jury, if you can't actually, you know,
25:06
Speaker 1: point to somebody in the courtroom and say, definitively, that's
25:10
Speaker 1: the person, then it's not going to have as much weight.
25:12
Speaker 1: But I guess that maybe with all of the other factors,
25:16
Speaker 1: it could come into play here. Dillon's description of the
25:20
Speaker 1: suspect's path when leaving the house also matches a latent
25:23
Speaker 1: footprint discovered at the scene. Important evidence if it's matched
25:27
Speaker 1: to Koberger. I mean, a lot of people wear Vans though.
25:31
Speaker 1: Like a whole ass college campus. I'm guessing a lot
25:34
Speaker 1: of those kids are wearing Vans. Just about every pair
25:37
Speaker 1: of shoes I own are Vans. You know, I like Vans.
25:41
Speaker 1: I've been wearing them since I've been a kid. And
25:43
Speaker 1: I just enjoy the way they feel on my feet.
25:45
Speaker 1: They're comfortable. And I like the shoes. But they're very popular.
25:49
Speaker 1: So I don't know how they're going to match that
25:51
Speaker 1: directly to Coburger, considering my guess, and this is just
25:55
Speaker 1: a guess here, that some of these kids had Vans themselves.
25:58
Speaker 1: So it might be a little difficult to tie that
26:01
Speaker 1: to Koberger unless, of course, when they searched his apartment
26:05
Speaker 1: or raided wherever he was at, he had the shoes
26:07
Speaker 1: on him. Koberger's internet postings. Without a clear motive, which
26:13
Speaker 1: may never be learned, the prosecution can introduce Koberger's previous
26:17
Speaker 1: Reddit postings in which he attempted to query criminals on
26:21
Speaker 1: what it felt like to commit crimes, what steps they
26:24
Speaker 1: took to avoid capture, how they prepared, and so on.
26:28
Speaker 1: including the questions, why did you choose that victim or
26:31
Speaker 1: target over others? And how did you approach your victim
26:35
Speaker 1: or target? Now, he's going to say that this was
26:38
Speaker 1: just a project he was working on in school. And
26:42
Speaker 1: under normal circumstances, people would shrug their shoulders and say, yeah,
26:46
Speaker 1: criminologists seems to fit the bill. But again, when you
26:50
Speaker 1: look at the totality of everything we know, all this
26:53
Speaker 1: shit looks more sinister. For their ending summations to a jury,
26:58
Speaker 1: prosecutors labor to construct a compelling narrative, a story that
27:02
Speaker 1: explains what the accused did and why he did it.
27:06
Speaker 1: Adding Koberger's intense interest. in criminality and the creepy questions
27:11
Speaker 1: he had previously asked in his Reddit survey, suggests a
27:14
Speaker 1: possible motive in the possible absence of one come trial time.
27:19
Speaker 1: And again, look, you don't need motive to get the conviction.
27:22
Speaker 1: It helps. It certainly does. But you do not need motive.
27:26
Speaker 1: All you need to do is prove that the crime
27:28
Speaker 1: was committed. As noted, there is much more investigation and
27:33
Speaker 1: likely more evidence to come. For instance, the steps Koberger
27:37
Speaker 1: took post-murder, like wearing surgical gloves and hiding his garbage.
27:41
Speaker 1: There will also be a great deal of criminal procedure.
27:45
Speaker 1: And there is also the defense's case, glimpses of which
27:49
Speaker 1: may be gained during the discovery process. But at this writing,
27:53
Speaker 1: the task force appears to have done its job. Now
27:56
Speaker 1: it's over to the prosecution. So that's definitely where it's
27:59
Speaker 1: at now, right? The investigators, their job is to find
28:03
Speaker 1: the suspect, compile all the evidence, and then pass that
28:06
Speaker 1: to the prosecutors. Now it's in their court. It's up
28:09
Speaker 1: to Bill Thompson and the other prosecutors on the team
28:12
Speaker 1: to slam this bad boy home and get a conviction.
28:17
Speaker 1: All right, folks, that's going to do it for this one.
28:19
Speaker 1: If you'd like to contact me, you can do that
28:21
Speaker 1: at bobbycapucci at protonmail.com. That's B-O-B-B-Y-C-A-P-U CCI at ProtonMail.com. You
28:30
Speaker 1: can also find me on Twitter at B-O-B-B-Y underscore C-A-P-U-C-C-I.
28:38
Speaker 1: The link that I discussed can be found in the
28:40
Speaker 1: description box. What's up everyone and welcome back to the program.
28:47
Speaker 1: So Brian Kohlberger's legal team is taking the position that
28:51
Speaker 1: the DNA evidence found on the knife sheath and elsewhere
28:55
Speaker 1: was planted by the police. So if I'm following along correctly,
28:59
Speaker 1: this guy's grand strategy is the OJ strategy. Somebody planted this.
29:04
Speaker 1: Mark Furman was here and he was hanging out with
29:07
Speaker 1: the evidence and decided to plant a glove. What does
29:10
Speaker 1: that even mean? Do they really think that that's going
29:12
Speaker 1: to work out for them? Because from my perspective, what
29:15
Speaker 1: we're seeing here is a whole replay of Lori Vallow
29:19
Speaker 1: and her defense. When all's said and done, it's going
29:22
Speaker 1: to come down to the truth. It's going to come
29:24
Speaker 1: down to the evidence that has been collected. And all
29:28
Speaker 1: of these wild assertions about evidence being planted and all
29:32
Speaker 1: of the rest of the nonsense that you see people
29:35
Speaker 1: like Koberger get up to when the evidence is piled
29:38
Speaker 1: a mile high against them? How many times do you
29:42
Speaker 1: see it pan out? How many times do you see
29:45
Speaker 1: one of these claims by a lawyer turn out to
29:47
Speaker 1: be the truth? Now, don't get me wrong. There's dirty
29:50
Speaker 1: cops out there and anything is possible. Until we see
29:54
Speaker 1: all the evidence, I won't just say out of hand,
29:56
Speaker 1: oh no, it didn't happen, but the likelihood of there
30:00
Speaker 1: being planted DNA evidence, in my opinion anyway, is slim
30:04
Speaker 1: to none. I mean, wouldn't they have to be in
30:06
Speaker 1: possession of Brian Kohlberger's DNA in the first place to
30:10
Speaker 1: plant it? And where would they get that DNA from?
30:13
Speaker 1: How would they even know who Brian Kohlberger is? So
30:16
Speaker 1: he's just some fall guy for who? Today's article is
30:20
Speaker 1: from Law and Crime and the headline, planted evidence, Brian
30:25
Speaker 1: Kohlberger's potential defense revealed amid DNA battle. This article was
30:30
Speaker 1: authored by Eileen Holiday and Annette Levy. Genetic genealogy and DNA,
30:38
Speaker 1: which were used to identify Brian Kohlberger, are at the
30:41
Speaker 1: center of the University of Idaho for student murders case.
30:45
Speaker 1: Court documents revealed a potential defense Kohlberger's team may use
30:49
Speaker 1: at trial to persuade the jury that The accused Idaho
30:52
Speaker 1: force student killer is not the right guy. So it's
30:56
Speaker 1: a bold strategy, but it's not a strategy that's going
30:59
Speaker 1: to work, in my opinion. You can't just walk into
31:02
Speaker 1: a courtroom and talk about someone planted DNA evidence. You're
31:07
Speaker 1: going to have to provide some evidence of that, right? Okay,
31:10
Speaker 1: so what makes you think that DNA evidence was planted?
31:13
Speaker 1: Not only are you asserting that someone planted evidence, but
31:17
Speaker 1: whoever that someone is committed a crime. So who is
31:20
Speaker 1: this person that you're saying committed this crime? Did the
31:24
Speaker 1: DNA evidence just magically get planted? No, somebody had to
31:28
Speaker 1: put it there, right? So who are you saying put
31:31
Speaker 1: it there? And of course, just like Elaine Maxwell and
31:34
Speaker 1: her open-ended complaints about the guards, they won't say... who
31:38
Speaker 1: planted the DNA evidence, only that it was planted. They'll
31:42
Speaker 1: just infer that to try and change the narrative. Technicalities
31:46
Speaker 1: and loopholes. The defense claims DNA on the knife sheath
31:49
Speaker 1: was planted. I mean, stop and think about what they're
31:52
Speaker 1: saying here. Think about how much would have to go
31:55
Speaker 1: into something like that. How many people would have to
31:58
Speaker 1: be involved in something like that. And then you tell
32:01
Speaker 1: me that it sounds like a likely thing to have happened.
32:04
Speaker 1: And unless the defense is sitting on some kind of
32:07
Speaker 1: huge evidence that we don't know about, I don't know
32:09
Speaker 1: how they could think anybody's going to think any differently.
32:13
Speaker 1: Prosecutors asked the court to issue a protective order on
32:17
Speaker 1: the genetic genealogy information developed by the FBI using a
32:21
Speaker 1: DNA profile obtained from the snap of the knife sheath
32:24
Speaker 1: found on Maddie Mogan's bed. So again, where did they
32:28
Speaker 1: get the DNA to plant on the knife sheath in
32:31
Speaker 1: the first place? That's the first question you have to
32:34
Speaker 1: answer for me. And if you don't have a logical
32:37
Speaker 1: answer for that, and I'm a juror, well, that hole
32:40
Speaker 1: that we talked about that you're standing in, that you
32:43
Speaker 1: just keep digging deeper for yourself, it's getting deeper. Kohlberger
32:47
Speaker 1: faces the possibility of the death penalty if convicted of
32:50
Speaker 1: the murders of Mogan, Kaylee Gonsalves, Zanna Kernodle, and Ethan
32:54
Speaker 1: Chapin last November. before students were found dead in their
32:59
Speaker 1: off-campus house in Moscow, Idaho. The defense suggests the DNA
33:03
Speaker 1: was planted. The defense wants to understand how the FBI
33:08
Speaker 1: used DNA to create family trees that led them to
33:11
Speaker 1: Kohlberger and his father. Kohlberger's defense attorneys wrote in their
33:16
Speaker 1: objection that they want to see how many other potential
33:19
Speaker 1: suspects were overlooked. Oh yeah, stronger, much stronger suspects. Just
33:24
Speaker 1: like Rex Uriman, is not the strongest suspect in the
33:28
Speaker 1: Long Island serial killings, right? And of course the lawyers
33:31
Speaker 1: are going to say stuff like that. Oh, stronger potential
33:34
Speaker 1: suspects were ignored. They're trying to defend their client. They're
33:38
Speaker 1: trying to create as much reasonable doubt as they possibly can.
33:42
Speaker 1: And if they can come up with some sort of boogeyman,
33:45
Speaker 1: somebody else that might be responsible, well, all the better. Look,
33:49
Speaker 1: we had Alec Murdaugh do the same thing, right? The
33:53
Speaker 1: unknown shooter theory, the two people who allegedly killed his
33:56
Speaker 1: wife and his son, but really it was him. Then
33:59
Speaker 1: Lori Vallow, same thing. The unknown assailant theory. Oh yeah,
34:03
Speaker 1: somebody snatched the kids and nobody knows anything about it.
34:07
Speaker 1: How'd that work out? You see, when you make these
34:09
Speaker 1: sort of assertions and you make these sort of accusations
34:14
Speaker 1: and you don't have the evidence to back it up,
34:16
Speaker 1: you're already burning your credibility with the jury and with
34:20
Speaker 1: the public at large. They even suggested that Kohlberger's DNA
34:24
Speaker 1: may have been planted. The state's argument, asks this court
34:28
Speaker 1: and Mr. Kohlberger, to assume is that the DNA on
34:33
Speaker 1: the sheath was placed there by Mr. Kohlberger and not
34:36
Speaker 1: someone else during an investigation that spans hundreds of members
34:40
Speaker 1: of law enforcement and apparently at least one lab the
34:44
Speaker 1: state refuses to name. So you mean like any other
34:47
Speaker 1: gigantic investigation, hundreds of investigators are involved? because that happens
34:52
Speaker 1: in every one of these gigantic investigations. And unless you
34:55
Speaker 1: have some evidence that evidence was planted, I think this
34:59
Speaker 1: is a very, very bad strategy for Brian Kohlberger's team.
35:02
Speaker 1: But as I've said a million times, when you're a
35:05
Speaker 1: drowning man and the ship has sunk, you're going to
35:08
Speaker 1: look for any sort of debris to grab onto so
35:10
Speaker 1: you don't drown. It has to be pretty planned out.
35:15
Speaker 1: The Law and Crime Network's Annette Levy spoke with DNA
35:18
Speaker 1: expert Kristen Slapper about the defense's strategy. What's important to
35:23
Speaker 1: remember is that, first of all, DNA on its own
35:26
Speaker 1: doesn't mean anything until you have a standard to compare,
35:30
Speaker 1: Slapper explained. The claim is DNA is planted. I think
35:34
Speaker 1: it's important to remember that Brian Kohlberger was not known.
35:37
Speaker 1: Nobody knew who did this, and I think that it's
35:40
Speaker 1: important because in order for something to be planted, it
35:43
Speaker 1: has to be pretty planned out. And here's a question
35:46
Speaker 1: for the defense. Why is Kohlberger the fall guy? What
35:49
Speaker 1: made him be the person that they collected DNA from
35:53
Speaker 1: to plant at this scene of the crime? Can somebody
35:56
Speaker 1: answer that question for me? Did they just pick him
35:58
Speaker 1: out of a hat? They were going through the yearbook
36:00
Speaker 1: at Washington State University and looking for criminology students to
36:04
Speaker 1: pin this on? How absurd does that sound? And does
36:08
Speaker 1: anybody out there buy that? I mean, I guess some
36:10
Speaker 1: people might, but big accusations require big evidence. And I
36:15
Speaker 1: don't see any big evidence here that points towards this
36:18
Speaker 1: DNA being planted. To plant someone's DNA, you have to
36:23
Speaker 1: have their DNA first of all. You have to have
36:26
Speaker 1: an item that their DNA is on and know that
36:29
Speaker 1: only their DNA would be found on it. So how
36:32
Speaker 1: did they do that? Did they just randomly choose Brian
36:35
Speaker 1: Kohlberger and say this is going to be the fall guy?
36:38
Speaker 1: We can't figure out the case, so let's just pin
36:40
Speaker 1: it on Brian Kohlberger? It sounds so dumb. When you
36:43
Speaker 1: actually think about it and you go through all of
36:46
Speaker 1: the steps, why would anyone plan evidence here? It makes
36:49
Speaker 1: zero sense whatsoever. Kohlberger's lawyers also hinted in the latest hearing,
36:56
Speaker 1: That they'll question the qualifications of some of the investigators involved. Oh,
37:01
Speaker 1: big strategy here. See, loopholes and technicalities, right? Not questioning
37:05
Speaker 1: the evidence. Not questioning, you know, what happened. Oh, it's
37:09
Speaker 1: the investigators. They don't know what they're doing. They're not qualified.
37:13
Speaker 1: We move for a mistrial. The same old plays from
37:16
Speaker 1: the same old playbook. Moscow is a small college town
37:20
Speaker 1: with a population of about 25,000 residents and a small
37:24
Speaker 1: police department. And that's true, they do have a small
37:27
Speaker 1: police department that had never dealt with anything like this before.
37:31
Speaker 1: But the FBI was there. I think the FBI might
37:34
Speaker 1: have dealt with a murderer or two in their time, huh?
37:36
Speaker 1: So I'd love for them to try and explain to
37:38
Speaker 1: a jury how the FBI isn't qualified to handle this evidence.
37:43
Speaker 1: Very shocking. Kohlberger's lawyer claims accused killer has no link
37:47
Speaker 1: to the Idaho 4 murders. Of course that's what they claim.
37:51
Speaker 1: What are they going to say? Yeah, our client did it.
37:53
Speaker 1: He walked in there in the middle of the night,
37:55
Speaker 1: stabbed everybody to death. I mean, his lawyers are out
37:58
Speaker 1: here pulling the Johnny Cochran talking about DNA was planted.
38:02
Speaker 1: You really think they're not going to claim that Kohlberger's
38:04
Speaker 1: innocent as well? Kohlberger's defense attorneys... claim the accused killer
38:10
Speaker 1: has no connection to the four University of Idaho students
38:14
Speaker 1: who were stabbed to death in their off-campus home in November.
38:18
Speaker 1: I can't wait till we get to discovery. I can't
38:20
Speaker 1: wait to see all of the evidence that's been compiled
38:23
Speaker 1: by the prosecution. And all of this no connection stuff
38:26
Speaker 1: is laughable. You really mean to tell me that you
38:29
Speaker 1: don't think Brian Koberger was following at least one of
38:32
Speaker 1: these girls on social media? or that Brian Kohlberger didn't
38:36
Speaker 1: pop into the Mad Greek, or over to the University
38:39
Speaker 1: of Idaho Campus Student Union. All of that stuff was
38:43
Speaker 1: a lie, huh? Kohlberger's attorneys are focusing on the total
38:46
Speaker 1: lack of DNA evidence found in the suspect's apartment, home, office,
38:51
Speaker 1: and vehicle. Well, that could be explained by the fact
38:54
Speaker 1: that Kohlberger had all of this planned out, wore clothes
38:57
Speaker 1: that he got rid of, and had the whole entire
39:00
Speaker 1: car lined in plastic. You know, you want to talk
39:03
Speaker 1: about planting evidence, this, that, the other thing. We can
39:06
Speaker 1: make assertions the other way as well. That's how this works, right?
39:10
Speaker 1: Kohlberger remains in the Latah County Jail being held without bail.
39:14
Speaker 1: He'll be back in court on August 2nd for a hearing.
39:18
Speaker 1: All right, so some big claims by Brian Kohlberger's defense team.
39:22
Speaker 1: We'll have to see what comes of it and if
39:25
Speaker 1: any of this stuff bears out. But we're going to
39:27
Speaker 1: continue following along like we have been. and we'll see
39:30
Speaker 1: where everything ends up. All right, folks, that's going to
39:33
Speaker 1: do it for this one. All of the information that
39:36
Speaker 1: goes with the episode can be found in the description box.