Latest / The Living Waters Podcast / Ep. 297 - Does the Bible Oppress Women?

Transcript

Ep. 297 - Does the Bible Oppress Women? · The Living Waters Podcast

• 1:04
  Speaker 1: What the scripture says we are made in his image.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: We are co-laborers.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: That is a radical thing to say in this kind of a world, to say that we are made equally.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: That's where all of the ideas of equality and justice come to play, and I'll get back to that in just a second.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: I would also look at all of the examples in the scriptures where it does not push women down, but rather it elevates women in a time, in a culture, in a society where women were in fact oppressed.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: One of the best books I've read on this is Jesus Through the Eyes of Women by Rebecca McLaughlin, and one of her quotes in the book says Jesus doesn't marginalize women, but take women from the margins and draws them to himself.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: And so she goes on and gives all these examples.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: Hagar is a concubine woman slave, and God chooses her to whisper his name.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: In Matthew, jesus commends the faith of a Canaanite woman after confronting male scribes and Pharisees.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: In Mark, jesus heals a chronically bleeding woman and he calls her his daughter.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: In Luke, the good news of Jesus is first revealed to a low income teenage girl from a back country town who becomes a prophetic voice and mother of Jesus.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: He names multiple women as eyewitnesses to his ministry.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: He holds up a woman as a moral example against a self-righteous man.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: He commends a poor widow for giving more than the rich and John.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: The longest recorded private conversation between Jesus and another person is the Samaritan woman with a sexual history, to Martha.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: He says to her something very unique when he says I am the resurrection and life.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: And so, in summary, what Rebecca McLaughlin would say is that all four gospels present Jesus, or I should say all four gospels.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: Jesus has eyewitnesses to his crucifixion women and eyewitnesses to his resurrection.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: In other words, jesus lifts up and elevates women from the margins onto equal footing with men.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: You guys are very difficult people.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: Those that listen to the podcast know and understand that.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: Please don't be difficult and just follow along, because this is something very fun and interesting.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: Ray, I want you to read these words in succession and quickly Meet feet cheat eat treat.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: Mark do the same.
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: Quick Bed read shed head sled, okay, oscar.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: It's upside down oh.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: Mean bean lean clean.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: Augustine no.
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: Did you see, did you think, did you think?
• 4:13
  Speaker 4: That was not supposed to work.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: Did you really think we're?
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: stupid.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: Yes, well, that was your mistake, oh man, okay, but you know what?
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: You made that up yourself, didn't you?
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: You didn't read that anywhere.
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: That was self-made.
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: That's why it was lame Listen forget this.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: Okay, Oscar was cheating.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: He probably looked at the card.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: I did not Two different ways of pronouncing it.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: In British English it is generally said as St Augustine, stress on the second syllable, st Augustine.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: In American English, however, it is generally said as St Augustine St.
• 4:49
  Speaker 4: Augustine, ah St.
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: Augustine Ah, in English.
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: So is that guy Vendick the proper?
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: You know this, but now you know, now you know.
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: Excuse me, is that accent an Arab accent?
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: Ez.
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: Yes, I don't know, but yes, by the way, that was a recording of EZ.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: I saw the guy's name, his name is Julian McQueel or something I'm like.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: He needs to tell people how to pronounce his own name.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: The way you understand how to say someone's name is you ask yourself the question what did his mother call him?
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: She would not have been in, she would not have had an English accent.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: Well, my question would be.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: My question would be did his mother, did his mother live in the Byzantine time?
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: Did his mother live in the Byzantine time?
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: Was she familiar with Emperor August Constantine?
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: And did she eat chicken Florentine.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: To be clear, the answer is no, because the Byzantine Empire would have come after.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: Augustine.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: It doesn't matter, she could have been reincarnated.
• 5:49
  Speaker 4: I don't know, I don't want to embarrass you easy.
• 5:51
  Speaker 4: This is very easy and common stuff here.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: Is it really Mark it?
• 5:55
  Speaker 4: really is.
• 5:55
  Speaker 4: Prove it.
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: I mean, I'll say, how about if I send you stuff that I think would convince you?
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: Okay, my favorite moment, but you can send it.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: My favorite moment is when we had, uh, albert, dr Albert Moeller on the podcast and we're sitting there having a conversation and out of nowhere, for no reason whatsoever, not prompted by me, dr Moeller goes.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Uh yeah, augustine, and I look over at easy and Moeller's still talking.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: I look over at easy and easy, like this, which he doesn't want me to say, which confirmed to me that even geniuses can be wrong.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: That's all that it did.
• 6:30
  Speaker 4: You are the most humble Arab I've ever met, I agree.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: Thank you, but more humble than you even think.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: I humble, you know.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: What's been cool, though, is with the whole rhyme theme.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: My grandson has started rhyming, which I love.
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: We got another rapper in the family.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: Can that be genetic?
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: By the way, I have no idea.
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: A rod of correction will drive us.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: That's right If folly is bound up in the heart of a child.
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's been.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: It's been cool.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: You know, I was trying to think of like when the world of rhyme opened up to me, because I just had this inclination toward it, to your blessing and benefit.
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: When demons started manifesting in the world.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: Ray, can you please try to rap just a little bit?
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: No, you wouldn't even try.
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: No, I've done poetry, but I can't rap.
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: Little Rachel nice.
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, little Rachel, sweet and nice.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: Comes to daddy for advice, climbs and sits upon his knee All his faults.
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: She cannot say yeah, that was written about what 40, 50 years ago.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: 40 years ago I had a poem pop into my mind from when I was like eight.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: This morning Just popped into my mind Mommy is my mommy, daddy is my dad.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: When I'm good, I'm really good, but when I'm bad, I'm bad.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: But I, I'm really good.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: But when I'm bad, I'm bad.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: But I shouldn't be bad to mommy, cause I know what I will get a spank, a scold and a memory that I never will forget.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: But when I'm dead, when I'm bad to daddy, he's not really all that mean.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: He doesn't spank or scold me or make an awful scene.
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: He just says listen, son, I wish you weren't so bad, cause one day, when you're really good, we'll all be really glad.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: I think my mom had like gone off on me and so I wrote a poem about how nice my dad was.
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: Oh, you wrote that poem.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: That's what I said when I was eight.
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: I thought it just popped into your vacuum.
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: I thought that's what you're saying, the vacuum of my brain.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: You see, that was very nice.
• 8:20
  Speaker 4: Merci, my favorite part of that was what Ray the ending.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: The end.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: Ended quick, ended quick.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: All right, fran, it's time for a cool, classy comment.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: This is from Isaac and he put in the subject line an absolute lifesaver.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: I absolutely love this podcast up until a month ago.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: I'm glad he didn't.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: I'm glad he put a period there.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: I absolutely love the podcast up until a month.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: Up until a month ago, I was a false convert.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: I lived in sin pornography addiction, lying to my wife about it.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: But this podcast showed me the truth about my sin.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: Wow, I always knew it was wrong and I told myself I was still being sanctified, but I wasn't really putting any effort toward living righteously.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: This podcast has seriously helped me open my eyes and set me on a path to chasing after the Lord.
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: I've discovered Ray's videos about two years ago and I devoured them like crazy when I first proclaimed to be a Christian, along with Mike Winger and others, but I never had the heart change.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: I relate mostly to Oscar because of his love for books and I relate to easy sense of humor.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: Mark has a lot of wisdom that has helped me on my journey and Ray's passion inspires me.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: Thank you, guys for all that you do.
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: Praise me.
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: Very nice, that was almost a tear juker for easy.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: Always got to hold them back.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, isaac.
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: Praise God for your walk in victory.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: This is a sin that has so many men in bondage, and it delights our souls to hear when men have been awakened.
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: If only there was a book.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: I'll start again you ever run a red light.
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: Have I ever run a red light?
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've gotten a ticket for running a red light, you got a ticket.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: Well, because I thought I was going to make it and I didn't.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you did.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: I think I did this morning, but I wasn't paying attention Really.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: No, I think I got one of those ones in the mail too.
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: Oh the cameras.
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, wicked the reason I ask that is because I have run red lights and it's been a horror.
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: When I do it, it's like impetuosity grips me.
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: I think I can make this.
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: I can make it.
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: When you get through, you think, man, I could have killed someone.
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and I let my imagination run when I wrote an article recently in this Imagine you're running a red light because you just want to make it through.
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: You're in a hurry and you hit a car.
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: It's got a mother and two children in and you just see their bloody bodies being dragged out of the car or cut out of the car and then have a court case and see the husband and father in tears looking at you with hatred because you stole from them as precious children, all because of your impatience.
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: And so what I've done is and I did it deliberately, almost before the Lord is from now on, I am going to put my foot on the brake and not on the accelerator.
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: Wow, that's good, it's a premeditated determination brake, not accelerator, it doesn't matter how much I am, and because of the consequences.
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: And we need to do the same thing with sin.
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: The thing that brought that to mind was that guy saying he just let himself gave himself to sin.
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: There are the terrible consequences Give yourself to sin, you might find yourself in adultery, absolutely you know, destroying the lives of your kids and your wife and sinning against God.
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: And so you've got to make a predetermined, premeditated determination to put your foot on the brake when it comes to sin.
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: Premeditated determination to put your foot on the brake when it comes to sin, and it starts with the last starts with the heart.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's that predetermination.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: You're right, and I think that's what we saw with Shadrach, meshach and Abednego.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: They had predetermined ahead of time.
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: That's why they were able to say no, need what?
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: Huh?
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: We're all just fist pumping because the guys like that, but you?
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: See the impetuosity, with more predetermination to sin, from Judas, from Cain, right through scripture it was a predetermination to sin.
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: God forbid whatever move from impetuosity to determining to sin, right, but yeah, that's why, like I was saying, you know, I think, with guys like Shadrach Meshach Abednego, or Hananiah Meshach and Azariah, or like Joseph, you know, when they reacted in the heat of the moment, when it was bow, you know or burn, they said we have no need to answer you concerning this matter.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: With Joseph, he took off running.
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: I can't do this thing in sin against my God.
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: I was going to say, Joseph had his foot on the brake but it was the accelerator in the other direction.
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: He accelerated.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: I love that you know that.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: Just that, that commitment.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: And but, ray, be careful, cause if you put the brake on too hard and fast you're going to get hit from behind and be thrown into the middle of the intersection.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: And then kill everybody.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: Kill an entire city.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: Oh boy, yeah, but no, it's so true.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: And then also, you always talk about this, ray, be careful of pulling out quickly in an intersection before looking both ways, before looking both ways, because someone could be you always look to the left because some maniac or even an ambulance could be coming, and you just didn't hear the siren.
• 12:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but what if you're in New Zealand and you look to the left and you should have looked to the right?
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: A lot of Americans die in New Zealand because they look the wrong way when crossing the road.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: You know what I just discovered when I put this jacket on?
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: I bought this, remember, when we went on our trip, because I need something to wear.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: The zipper is on the other side.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: What's?
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: wrong with that?
• 13:09
  Speaker 4: Well, that's a women's.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're wearing a woman's jacket?
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: No, no, I learned that lesson with buttons when I was a kid.
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I used to do buttons and all the buttons are on the.
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: You got to do the right side with buttons.
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: You guys got it all wrong.
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: All right, and now?
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: I like this.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: That's nice.
• 13:25
  Speaker 4: Well, you understand that Roxy is a women's brand.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: No, when I was a kid it was an Esperit.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: I think it was Esperit shirt or whatever it was.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: I ended up finding out.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: I'm like why are the buns on the other side?
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: Because I think they did do that.
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: Those listening by podcast and you're not seeing.
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: We love the pink color, yeah.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: Hot pink All right friends.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: And hot pink all right friends.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: And now radically revolutionary resources podcast is brought to you by.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: My comfort is jesus.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: I'm glad my comfort is not ray.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: My comfort is jesus who is mike?
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: Humphrey, my theologian.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: Oh man, 356 friends devotions.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, actually, no, actually that's 700.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: And what?
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: What would that be?
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: 12 or something?
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: It's not necessary 700.
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: I can't even think it's not necessary.
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: 712.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's morning and evening.
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: I couldn't have written that book without your encouragement.
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: Easy, really.
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: Three quarters of the way through it.
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: I'd say I'm up to this and you'd say, keep going.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: You can do it Because I gave you the idea you hated me at some point.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: It's a huge amount of writing to do.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: You did a great job.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: Sorry, quick update.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: I just found a tag that says made by her for her.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: Oscar, don't talk about your pants like that.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: All right, friends.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, don't forget the Living Waters mug and the Evidence Study Bible.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: All that Living Waters, go ahead.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: Oscar, that was appropriate for your jacket.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: All right, friends.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: Today we are talking about does the Bible oppress women?
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: That's fitting.
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: Do you guys have permission to do you mean?
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: How often do I get what?
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: The jacket like yours Oppressing women?
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: I hardly ever.
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: It's on Really Sometimes yeah, some liberal female might say that, but it's not that often.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: I hear it from time to time, especially when you're witnessing to women and the subject of abortion comes up.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: That's usually right.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: Yes, when they'll go to that.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: Restricting freedom.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but seriously, though, think about that, you know.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: I mean, there was a time when you would hear the saying and we've talked about it before rare, legal and safe.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: That's out the window.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: Not that that like meant anything.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: You're murdering a baby.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: Whether you do it safely, legally or rarely, it's murder.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: But now it's like this overt sort of in your face kind of thing and there's no holding back and it's always being tied now to hey, it's a woman's right.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: You're suppressing women, mark.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: What's the deal with that?
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: That's become I don't know I prepared for.
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: Does the Bible compress kittens?
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: It's not gonna end.
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: It's not gonna end.
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I actually have no idea what you asked me, doofi.
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: He's asking about abortion.
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: Mark, Do you feel strongly about it?
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: I do feel very strongly about it because the Bible feels very strongly about it.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: I'm talking mainly, mark, about how it's become a thing of like you're oppressing women now because you're telling them they can't murder them.
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well, that's not the subject.
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: I think that, for example, pro-choice and and what's another word that has been kind of hijacked into the conversation it's not about a woman's rights, right?
• 16:52
  Speaker 4: What about the woman inside the mother, right?
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: It's silly use that word loosely to think that it is about a woman's right to kill someone.
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: You think about what our options are with the upcoming election.
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: Right, we do have an individual running for office who is quite bombastic, who is guilty of maybe different things, who's not the best role model.
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: I'm not voting for another savior, though, but I already have a savior that's filled, but what is the opposite that we are looking at?
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: We're looking at someone who is running on the platform of having the right to murder other human beings.
• 17:31
  Speaker 4: Those are your options.
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: It is a one ticket option here.
• 17:37
  Speaker 4: I want to be able to kill someone.
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: Vote for me.
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: That's what we're talking about.
• 17:42
  Speaker 4: It is absolutely ridiculous to consider that.
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so I would never vote for somebody who is for the killing of innocent babies in the womb, and it was confirmed.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: You guys know I can't remember if we touched on this on a podcast, but it was confirmed that at the DNC they actually had a mobile abortion unit.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: Oh, I remember you guys mentioned that, a mobile abortion unit on the grounds.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: You know, I mean it again and it has gone from rarely mentioned by certain politicians to in your face and it just shows how brazen and how hardened we've become as a culture.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, so does the Bible oppress women?
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: I think the best place to start is at the very, very, very, very beginning of the Bible, and that's in Genesis, right, I mean?
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: And it's clear, it tells us so.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: God created mankind in his own image.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: In the image of God, he created them, male and female.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: He created them.
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: I'm so pleased about that.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: Aren't you.
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: Because we'd only be one in the human race if God hadn't taken that initiative.
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: We'd be like the smurfs.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: Adam would still be standing there.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: So what do I do next?
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but Imago Dei.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: We've hailed that saying so much because the value of that saying is priceless.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: You better explain it for new.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so in the image of God.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: Man has been made in the image of God and at the very start here in Genesis we see that God could have easily said just man, right.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: But he created them, male and female.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: He created them, he made them in his image.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: Women have the exact same value as men, 100% equal from the very outset.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: In the Bible, which many claim oppresses women in the image of God, Amen, yeah, does God or does the Bible oppress women?
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: I think, first and foremost, we have to.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: If I'm having that conversation, when I have that conversation with somebody, the first thing I stop before clarifying and going to the doctrine of creating God's image, imago Dei.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: I think it's important to admit listen, people claiming the name of Christ through history has oppressed women.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: That has happened, that's happening today as a matter of fact.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: But the scriptures, instead of endorsing that, is actually the fuel, the weapon, the tool, the truth.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: We need to oppose that very thing.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: It starts with doctrine.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: We are what the scripture says, we are made in his image, we are co-laborers.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: That is a radical thing to say in this kind of a world, to say that we are made equally.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: That's where all of the ideas of equality and justice come to play, and I'll get back to that in just a second.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: I would also look at all of the examples in the scriptures where it does not push women down, but rather it elevates women in a time, in a culture, in a society where women were in fact oppressed.
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: One of the best books I've read on this is Jesus Through the Eyes of Women by Rebecca McLaughlin, and one of her quotes in the book says Jesus doesn't marginalize women, but take women from the margins and draws them to himself.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: Wow, I like that.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: But take women from the margins and draws them to himself.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: And so she goes on and gives all these examples.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: Hagar is a concubine, woman, slave, and God chooses her to whisper his name.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: In Matthew, jesus commends the faith of a Canaanite woman after confronting male scribes and Pharisees.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: In Mark, jesus heals a chronically bleeding woman and he calls her his daughter.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: In Luke, the good news of Jesus is first revealed to a low income teenage girl from a back country town who becomes a prophetic voice and mother of Jesus.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: He names multiple women as eyewitnesses to his ministry.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: He holds up a woman as a moral example against a self-righteous man.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: He commends a poor widow for giving more than the rich and John.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: The longest recorded private conversation between Jesus and another person is the Samaritan woman with a sexual history.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: To Martha.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: He says to her something very unique when he says I am the resurrection and the life.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: And so, in summary, what Rebecca McLaughlin would say is that all four gospels present Jesus, or I should say all four gospels.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: Jesus has eyewitnesses to his crucifixion, women and eyewitnesses to his resurrection Inion, women and eyewitnesses to his resurrection.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: In other words, jesus lifts up and elevates women from the margins onto equal footing with men.
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: Did you mention Mary?
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: I was writing something.
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: Mary and Martha when Jesus turned to him and said Mary, yeah, so good.
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I know Chronological bleeding woman was okay, because it was 12 years.
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: She had that, so it was it is chronological thank you chronologically bleeding.
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: Um yeah, talking of same footing, evolution makes no provision for women.
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: Look at the charts of those bent over hairy ape men slowly straightening up and there's no woman involved.
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: Where does she know?
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: those were all hairy women.
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: They were all hairy women.
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: They were all hairy women.
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: Oh, they were free and liberated.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: Pictures of Joseph Smith's wives.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: Remember the one that looked like Curly?
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: That was scary.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: That was the one that looked like Curly.
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: They said ask in evolutions.
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: Where do women evolve from?
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: Where do they come in the whole scheme?
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: What point of time, what millions of years, that suddenly the male find a woman under a leaf or something?
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: What happened so they could reproduce it?
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: They don't know.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: You know, oscar, I love the fact that you said that women have been oppressed in the past, and so what some will do is they'll go back and maybe they'll highlight some Christian groups or maybe even certain leaders that spoke in a belittling way about women or oppress them or whatever.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: But again, that's why you go back to the foundation.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: For example, if someone comes to us and says, hey, you know, look at all these hateful Christians, look at the crusades, look at you.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: Know what do we do?
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: We can go back and say, well, let's look at what Jesus taught.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: Right, this is not Christian.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: Forget what people do or did or said.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: Look at what the Bible taught on this subject.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: And so that's why, yeah, we go back to Genesis in the very beginning and say, look, here's what it says about how God first of all made man and woman.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: And then you look at the rest of the tenor of scripture and the things you just cited.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: And, on top of that, I think what people don't realize that they're doing is they're actually using a standard from the scriptures to talk about women being oppressed, because, as you guys mentioned, the idea of women created equally is a foreign concept to most of human history.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: And this isn't just a Christian opinion.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: I've talked before about Tom Holland non-Christian, a renowned historian who wrote the book Dominion.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: He said that Christianity fueled the first wave of feminism, essentially outside of Christianity.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: You've got.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: You've got Darwinian evolution survival of the fittest.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: The strong are more important than the weak All throughout history.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: You see this Glenn Scrivener in his book the Air we Breathe.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: He does a great job of-.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: The Air we Breathe is the name of the book the Air we Breathe.
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: The Air we Breathe, the evolution thing again.
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the evolution.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: He makes this point that I love talking about, which he says you know, if you went to Socrates and you were like, hey, socrates, everyone is created equally, socrates would have looked at you and gone.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: No, they're not.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: Men are bigger than women.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: The poor are not as valuable as the rich.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: The smart have more to contribute.
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: Is this really Socrates?
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: He did everything in questions, not statements.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: Doesn't the smart have more value than the poor or than the not smart.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: Over and over again, he would have looked at the world and say it's obvious, it's clear by just looking around that we are not created equally.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: In other words, the standard you're using is a Christian standard.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: It's Christianity that introduces to the world the idea that men, women, everybody, from every tribe, tongue and nation are created equally, and it's that standard that we use to judge right from wrong.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: Mark, what if someone says but the Bible says women are to submit to their husbands.
• 26:02
  Speaker 4: It does say that, notice.
• 26:04
  Speaker 4: After that though I mean, is it before or after that says that we are to submit to one another out of the fear of the Lord.
• 26:09
  Speaker 4: And what does it mean to submit?
• 26:12
  Speaker 4: Right, because we do submit to one another.
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: The husband is to unconditionally and sacrificially take care of his wife and love his wife.
• 26:20
  Speaker 4: Right, that that is a representation of Christ and the church.
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: That there's no strings attached.
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: That even if you don't make me a dish or clean a dish, I'm going to be there for you.
• 26:31
  Speaker 4: That's an unconditional, no strings attached.
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: I'm not doing this so that you will now serve me.
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: You know, the Bible does talk about Eve being a helpmate, and we look at that as being a submissive role.
• 26:44
  Speaker 4: Right, because that's tends to be our mindset.
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: But that is not the case here.
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: As we see in Psalm 33, verse 20, it says "'We wait and hope for the Lord.
• 26:52
  Speaker 4: He is our help and our shield.
• 26:54
  Speaker 4: And then this is the same Hebrew word as Eve is the help, or the help meet to the husband.
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: God created both men and women in his image, as we talked about in Genesis 1, 27.
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: But this is often misunderstood.
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: We help each other, right?
• 27:11
  Speaker 4: I'm a help me to my wife as well.
• 27:11
  Speaker 4: She's not an inferior person to me.
• 27:12
  Speaker 4: I had watched the movie because we talked about it.
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: She's not an inferior person to me.
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: I had watched the movie because we talked about it.
• 27:17
  Speaker 4: Last week, ray, not without my daughter, oh, do you watch that?
• 27:21
  Speaker 4: So I went back and I watched it through Amazon Prime.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: Did you grow in love for me, mark, a lovely Arab.
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: It made me pray for your wife Talking about an oppressive religion, with Islam and the rights or the lack of rights that women don't have right within Islam.
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: Christianity is the exact opposite.
• 27:41
  Speaker 4: We have Oscar here talking about all of the different roles that women have played inside of the Bible.
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: When, during the time when women were oppressed, that Christianity stood up and said no, this is wrong.
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: Oppressed, that Christianity stood up and said no, this is wrong.
• 27:59
  Speaker 4: You consider the fact that the first eyewitnesses to the resurrection of Jesus were who?
• 28:01
  Speaker 4: Women Were women right Now.
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: This also authenticates the fact that the Bible is supernatural in origin, because during that time, nobody would put inside writing that women were the first ones to the tomb.
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: Let's kind of cover that up and brush that underneath the rug.
• 28:16
  Speaker 4: We would say that a man was the first one to the tomb.
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: Why do that?
• 28:21
  Speaker 4: Well, because the Bible, by and large, is just a historical narrative telling us what has taken place in a lot of different parts and places.
• 28:28
  Speaker 4: So this demonstrates that the Bible is supernatural in origin, because only God can put something like that together, and it also demonstrates the fact that God has elevated women to a place where they belong, and we see that right from what we talked about earlier, imago Dei, creating the image of God.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know, it's interesting in that nobody points to inequality being found in certain biological functions in one sense, and that obviously we've.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: We've seen the world trying to twist it and switch pronouns and genders and all that insanity, but by and large, no one would say look, a woman is is, you know, superior to a man because she can bear a child and a man cannot carry a child.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: That is ridiculous, that's inequality, I mean.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: And so a lot of times, the things that are highlighted are things within the realm of the, of the, you know, of the physical, of the sort of leadership type structure, but it's never, it's never looked at from that physical standpoint.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: Look, men and women are not equal in the sense that they are different in that they're, they're built differently, right?
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: So if you're going to say, for example, strength, by and large, generally speaking, men and women are not equal in strength, you have your anomalies, of course, right, but no, men are stronger than women physically, by and large, generally and typically, you know, I will say though watching my wife give birth made me feel inferior.
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's wow, oh, big time, right.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I mean, you have, you have things like that.
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: But but, ray, that that doesn't deal with essence.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: It doesn't deal with with the very nature of man and woman.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: And I think, within Christianity, hopefully, as it's seen today, in the way that men defer to their women and the ways they treat them, hopefully with respect and honor, it demonstrates that we value them.
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: Amen.
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: When we're born again, we have to learn a whole new language, no Biblical language, because in the world we have preconceived understandings of words like submission.
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: A dog submits.
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: When you're wrestling with a guy, you get him on the back and choke him to death until he submits.
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: But in God's kingdom the word submit is a virtue, not a sin.
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: So good, humility, submission, yeah.
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: And so we submit one to another, always as Christians.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: That's so good?
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: I mean because we do.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: We read the scripture with man's economy in mind, and so when we think about a leader, we think about superior, greater, paid, the one in charge, the one running the show, the one that gets all the credit.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: When we think of a helper, we think about you know, um, an assistant, uh, a volunteer, we, we have this economy of scale where one is greater than the other, but that's man's way of looking at that economy of scale.
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: God's kingdom is the upside down kingdom.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: The first will be the last and the last will be first.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: Jesus gives the prime example as a leader.
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: He was the chief servant, right, and then you mentioned helper.
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: That's actually a really great example, because I've had a conversation with a young man who was married and he was having some struggles in his marriage and his concept of what helper meant was distorted and unbiblical In his mind.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: I mean almost verbatim.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: He says to me well, she's my helper and so if we ever see things the wrong way, she just needs to submit and I'm just going to choose what I want to choose.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: And I said to him you have to understand like one that word helper, and that might sound harsh towards women, or maybe it's just uncomfortable that you'd be a helpmate, but remember that God himself calls himself a helper in the old Testament.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: That's a role that God gives to himself and Abraham and Isaac and Moses and David they never would have thought about God as like all right.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: God, today, you're going to help me build my kingdom.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: You're going to help me take care of all this stuff I don't want to take care of so I can hang out with the boys.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: That's how you're going to help me, god.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: No, they saw God as his helper, as in God.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: Give me your wisdom, I need your counsel.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: Help me understand your ways.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: In that same way, when we see our wives as helpers, we should look at them as.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: I need your counsel, I need your wisdom to understand the ways of the Lord.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and also, along with you know God being referred to as helper in the old Testament, I mean even the new Testament.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: The Holy spirit is the comforter, or the helper, and that word can be helper as well, and so he's.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: He's the third person of the triune, Godhead, and so and there's that beauty in in being those that serve I mean that was Christ's whole heart.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: He didn't come to be served, but to serve, give his life a ransom for many.
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: So the point is it's not innately inferior to serve, it's actually lifted up and men are called to serve their wives in the most extreme sense imaginable.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: Men are called to lay down their lives for their wives, to love them, as Christ loved the church and gave himself for her.
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: I don't see the word help made as being derogatory word.
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: I see it.
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: If anything, it shows the husband's a doofus.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: Help this boy out.
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: Can't handle on his own.
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: Help him drive, help him do this.
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: That's so true.
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: Where would men be without women, right yeah, Ray.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: Still in the garden.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: Say that at a women's conference, Ray, yeah, yeah, Mark.
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: So what do you say then to someone that says, okay, well, we've dealt with the marriage thing.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: Women submit to their husbands.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: Well, what about in the realm of women pastors?
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: The Bible doesn't allow a woman to be a pastor.
• 34:14
  Speaker 4: Or to reach out, I'd say shut up.
• 34:15
  Speaker 4: No, it doesn't, because there's a leadership, there's a headship that God has designed right.
• 34:20
  Speaker 4: I mean, listen, god's ways are just right, they're just simply correct.
• 34:25
  Speaker 4: And what happens is you have all kinds of issues and problems when you attempt to usurp the authority of scripture.
• 34:30
  Speaker 4: But, yeah, god does not permit a woman to have authority in a biblical sense, inside of the leadership of a church, to be a pastor in that sense.
• 34:39
  Speaker 4: And that's not to say that a woman cannot teach.
• 34:41
  Speaker 4: A woman can't teach other women, right, and women do teach boys, perhaps inside of a home, you know they're her own children perhaps.
• 34:50
  Speaker 4: But yeah, you don't want a woman leading a congregation, because God does not want that to happen.
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know I love harmony when who is harmony?
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: You've never met her.
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: Come on, mark, that's very sweet.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: You forgot harmony.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: Harmony, I hope you're listening right now, but Easy loves you.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: I love harmony listening right now, but Easy loves you?
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I love harmony, my sister harmony.
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: Seriously, I love harmony but I cannot sing in harmony.
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: I can't do it.
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: If Sue goes in harmony when I'm in church I follow her.
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: But Ray, you're a brilliant whistler.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: I don't understand how you can't whistle.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: You got your whistle down.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: This is a really good whistler.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: Oh boy, there we go, I'm sorry listener.
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: We're trying to have a show.
• 35:33
  Speaker 4: Why would you whistle like that?
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: Don't do that, but you know, harmony between those that understand how things are meant to function according to God's design.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: To me that's beauty.
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: Right, you know, I mean we're joking around about music, but when you see an orchestra and everyone understands their role and everyone knows when they're to play their instrument, and good, it's beautiful have you ever heard orchestras deliberately playing off key?
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: it really is funny.
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: Have you seen a video?
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you can find online where there's everything is just wrong.
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: Everyone's.
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: Everyone's into it blowing their trumpets and that, but it's just all but we know it's wrong.
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because there's something in us that says that that doesn't harmonize.
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: It really looks like today's politics.
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: That's what it sounds like.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: It's so true, but real quick, I was going to say that.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: You know, it's just beautiful when you have that harmony and it's poetic almost when a man fulfills his role, a woman fulfills her role and and and every aspect of life.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: You know, and that's been the joy of my marriage to Rachel, she's a woman who understands that we are equals but at the same time, god has given us each a role and I've been so blessed to see how God has used her to minister to women.
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: You know her, her joyful mother's ministry, now online she's got between Facebook and Instagram.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: She's got about 90,000 people that are following and sometimes I'll read her little messages to women and I'll get convicted Is that why you bought that jacket?
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: You didn't know.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: This is why, for this reason, full circle, becoming all things to all women, oscar, come on.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: So you know she.
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: She is such a great example for you ladies.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: Listening, I mean this is just kind of a a side note here, but check out, check out Joyful Mothers.
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: I think you will be so minister to blessed and encouraged Oscar, you something was gonna say.
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: Oh, you guys reminded me.
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: Well, two things, I guess.
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: The first thing is I love that you point the way you pointed out the role of women and men in the church and in the home, and I would just simply add to that that those aren't just random arbitrary rules or laws that God just throws out there.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: Sometimes we walk around this life and we experience certain rules in certain situations and we're like what purpose does that serve?
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: God's commands?
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: Serve a purpose.
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: Purpose, does that serve God's commands serve a purpose.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: And the roles that he has for us, both in the home and in the church, is meant to be a foreshadowing or a type of which tells us about the relationship between Christ and his bride, the church.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: And so we are putting on display a type of role, we're a typology.
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: When we play those roles in the church and we play those roles in the home, they serve a very specific purpose.
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: And then you also reminded me when you brought about music instruments.
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: You guys will love this.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: In Glenn Scribner's book, again, the Air we Breathe.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: He does this great example where the air we breathe.
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: The air we breathe.
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: He does this great example where the air we breathe, the air we breathe Bite, like Roseanne.
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: He points out he's talking about how, again, some people, under the banner of Christ, have abused women, have done terrible things.
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: And he says you know, being a Christian is like learning to play a new instrument.
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: And while we're learning to play that instrument, we're going to play it wrong.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: And you might be able to play.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: You know, you might be trying to play Beethoven's fifth symphony and you're just absolutely butchering it.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: Nobody would say there's something wrong with that instrument.
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: I hate that instrument.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: There's something wrong with Beethoven's song.
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: I hate that song.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: You would say there's something wrong with the person trying to play it and, in that same way, those who claim the name of Christ and fall short of his glory.
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: It doesn't change the goodness and the glory of the scripture, the goodness and the glory of God.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: It just tells you something about the fallen nature of man.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: Right, amen, that's good, and that's why we take it back to that standard, right?
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: I mean, if someone is misplaying Beethoven or Bach or whatever, we say no, no, this is how it's supposed to sound, you know, and that, yeah, in fact, we had a young girl come and play Amazing Grace at our church with her violin, oh yes, and when she went to start with her violin, she had to put it in tune and in order to do so, it sounded really, really bad as she played Amazing Grace.
• 40:01
  Speaker 4: She went off on her own and she started to play it and she was asked the question why did you play it different than the way it actually is?
• 40:07
  Speaker 4: And she said, well, this is the way it actually should be played.
• 40:08
  Speaker 4: The question why did you play it different than the way it actually is?
• 40:10
  Speaker 4: And she said, well, this is the way it actually should be played.
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: She just had such an ear, knowing the direction and the angles that it should have taken, and, being at such a high caliber player, she was able to change it and make it sound so much beautiful than the actual original.
• 40:23
  Speaker 4: Wow, yeah, yeah, ray, what are you fumbling with?
• 40:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah, what is going on with you, ray?
• 40:27
  Speaker 4: Why do you have such a hard time?
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: with life.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: He made it 37 minutes in, though that's pretty good.
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: That's miraculous.
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: Okay, look, mark, fix that for me, yeah.
• 40:35
  Speaker 4: Watch how fast I say I don't know how to do this, but I'm sure I could do this really really fast.
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: Show him, Mark, I will show you to figure out you, oh boy, All right children as you play, let's get back to business here Do I hear some repentance?
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: No, Ah, is there any contrition?
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: Mark humbled on the living water Is there any contrition for those who can't see Ray once again destroying his iPad and Mark's trying to help him?
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we get all kinds of things sent to us.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: Please send Ray an iPad holder, all right, so let's get back to business here, ray.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: Galatians 3.28.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, there's neither Jew nor Greek slave, nor free male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: I mean, if this doesn't demonstrate that women are not oppressed, again, you have to remember, right, the context, the cultural context.
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: In that time, ray, this would have been unthinkable.
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: Yes, oh, no, not that again.
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: It's just like I am at the moment.
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: It's totally unthinkable.
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: All right, franz, you asked for it, so Proverbs 31, woman.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: Mark, can you comment on that?
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: The Proverbs 31 woman.
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: If anything is not weak in terms of women, if anything is not unequal, the Proverbs 31 woman.
• 42:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well, listen, it describes her as a businesswoman, a provider, a leader within her household, contradicting the notion here that the Bible restricts women to passive roles, that she is a woman who is able to think through and consider all the areas, all the different avenues that her household actually needs.
• 42:18
  Speaker 4: People would look at Proverbs 31, as this is the type of woman that I'm looking for.
• 42:22
  Speaker 4: No, it just it demonstrates kind of an overarching idea that a woman has the ability to do a lot more than what culture at that time would say that she actually is able to do a lot more than what culture at that time would say that she actually is able to do.
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you look at, you know, you look at the qualities of the Proverbs 31, a woman, I mean.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: She celebrated for her wisdom.
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: They highlight her business acumen.
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: Right, she's involved in industry and business, you know, she's hailed in her community.
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: She's a symbol of virtue.
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, these things are again a demonstration that women are not what men are claiming they are in this world today, in the word, I have something to say.
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: Oh here we go.
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a great thing to do to take Proverbs 31 and liken it to the church that woman of virtue clothed in purple.
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: It really is a type of the church with a submission to her husband and we're submitted to Christ.
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: It's a great study, yeah.
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: Amen and then Mark.
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: Something that I love that you do is that you go to the root of it, when oftentimes atheists and unbelievers are saying that you have a very funny looking face.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: By the way, this is recorded now for Living Waters TV.
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: You can see the panic on Mark's face.
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: But no, but right.
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: We go to the root of it.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: Like yeah, the Bible oppresses women.
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: You typically ask the question what's wrong with that?
• 43:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah, right, so that's the atheistic worldview.
• 43:42
  Speaker 4: What would be wrong within an atheistic worldview if women were oppressed?
• 43:46
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: We're just a matter in motion, and if we're just matter in motion, then nothing really matters, right?
• 43:53
  Speaker 4: So, from good to you, by way of the zoo, is the whole picture inside the head there?
• 43:57
  Speaker 4: What, according to your worldview, what is wrong with doing anything that our society says that is wrong?
• 44:04
  Speaker 4: You can say that it doesn't benefit a society, but all you're saying is it doesn't benefit a society.
• 44:08
  Speaker 4: You're not morally telling me, though, why something is wrong.
• 44:12
  Speaker 4: You have to borrow from the Christian worldview in order to say anything is wrong.
• 44:16
  Speaker 4: You're telling me what is, but not what ought to be.
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and again, within the whole paradigm of survival, of the fittest, and you know, those that are the strong, basically, that's the fairest, really, because they've got more meat on their bones to carry them through.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: Good cooks, yeah, but but by that whole paradigm.
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: In reality, it's like what's wrong with that?
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's what should be happening, and you could apply that, of course, racially as well.
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: Of course we know we're all of one blood, but but the race, the whole race realm, that's often elevated.
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: What's wrong with that?
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: Like what's wrong with one nation subjugating another nation if they're stronger?
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: That's how we, as you know, human beings at the top of the evolutionary chain got here.
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: And that's what Darwin actually took that to the nth degree.
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: He was a racist.
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he believed that, that there were races that were weaker, right.
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he was involved in the eugenics movement.
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: Right that there were races that were weaker, right, yeah, he was involved in the eugenics movement, right?
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: So, oscar, what do you say to the man who has gone sideways on this because he's misinterpreting scripture, with his wife, with his daughters, maybe some men even with their moms, right, like, who are you?
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: You're a woman.
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: You can't tell me.
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: What do you say to them from a biblical perspective?
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: I'd go back to what I said earlier, which is that the Lord has you have to remember that when you disrespect, when you dishonor another person, ultimately you're disrespecting, dishonoring the image of God in them, and so your fear of the Lord should humble you to treat the women in your life with gentleness and respect and to heed their wisdom and counsel for you, because they are given to you from God for your good and for his glory.
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: And so, ultimately, why?
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: Why is sin sin in any situation?
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: Because, first and foremost, it's sin against God.
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: And so, man brother, repent, and, in your repentance, turn to the women in your life and tell them how sorry you are and buy them flowers.
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: And buy them flowers if they like flowers, chocolates are in and out no, we wouldn't go that far much.
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: Now I hope you heard that men buy them flowers, not flour, so they can bake you a cake.
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: Please remember that Burn.
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: Is that my accent?
• 46:34
  Speaker 3: You're mocking my accent.
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: No, no.
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: No, of course not.
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: I would never do that, because I did the American accent.
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: I said flowers, flowers.
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: No, yeah, that's so good, yeah, no, yeah.
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, yeah oh no.
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: But you know you think about Peter also talking about how men are to dwell with their wives with understanding, and also that we're to give deference preference to the wife as a fellow heir of God's kingdom.
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, that kind of language in and of itself, again, was so foreign.
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: You know there's enough rope to hang yourself if you are a woman's liver and you open a Bible and look for portions of scripture to confirm what your worldview is about Christianity.
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: But if you read it in truth and with a humble heart, it all makes sense.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: It's also important to remember, before she's your wife and before she's your daughter, before she's your mother, she's God's daughter.
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: Amen, that is that.
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: And their father is looking over you and considering how you honor and respect the women in your life.
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: Amen.
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: There you have it, friends.
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: You heard it here on the Living Waters podcast.
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: Yes, be nice to women.
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: In conclusion.
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: Be nice.
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: All right, friends.
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: Thank you for joining us.
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: Don't forget my comfort memories, ray.
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: My comfort is Jesus.
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: You'll get morning and evening devotions from that.
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: The Living Waters mug yes, it's still around.
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: And don't forget the evidence study Bible All at livingwaterscom.
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: Remember, comment, send us your thoughts and accusations and all kinds of things toward Oscar, mark and Ray at podcastlivingwaterscom.
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: Thank you for joining us, friends.
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: We'll see you here next time on the Living Waters Podcast, where we have no idea what we're doing.