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Nourishment: Maybe a Little Harder Than We Think · Imagine The Good

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Imagine the Good Podcast.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Have you ever watched something or heard an idea that makes you want to tell everyone?
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because it ignites hope and inspiration for their beauty and goodness, and you want to expand it in the world?
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's the catalyst of this podcast.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: Having conversations with inspiring people, elevating goodness, and reimagining what we can do together.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Robin Marr, and I'm here with my husband and co-host, Jason Dorman.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: Join us as we explore ideas, stories, and conversations that invite us to live with greater purpose, compassion, courage, and connection.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: Today, we're joined by someone who is living that invitation.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll explore what their story might mean for the way we live, work, and relate to one another.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: Let's get started.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, I'm Robin Larr.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Jason Dorwyn.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Imagine the Good, True Nourishment.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Today, we want to build on what we've talked about in terms of discernment, what deserves our time, energy, and attention, devotion and discipline, what we care about and how we can organize our lives around what matters.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: And with true nourishment, what is it that we engage in that truly feeds all of that?
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's a good question because I, as we've talked about before, I don't think nourishment is part of the language.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think we compartmentalize it into diet, nutrition, exercise, fitness, what all, you know, all these different terms.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't know that nutrition or nourishment, excuse me, is a concept that people either understand or perhaps don't even or or aren't interested in understanding because if we're gonna if we're gonna define what true nourishment is, I think it runs counter to what many of us want it to be.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, and I'm not gonna elaborate on that now, but I think we'll get to it.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it's gonna be, I don't know, an interesting conversation and in some ways a hard sell.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: So it is for me.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: It was for me, but um, yeah, anyway, I'm open to it.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: I relate to it because uh evokes um a very visceral sense of um what has helped me grow in stuck places in my life and what I return to again and again as as a way to fill my cup, to have more to give.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: So um I get what you're saying that perhaps in some of the categories of health and well-being, that there are tick boxes that that don't have the classes that you have to go to that don't have the feeling uh of that word.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um I come back to um, you know how much I like having fun with with acronyms and metaphors.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so uh the tea of life, um, sipping the tea of life with tea standing for time, energy, and attention, how we allocate our time, how we use it, uh, what gives us energy and and how we use our energy, and and what we choose to focus our attention on.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, being deliberate and intentional about those different elements from my point of view has a lot to do with um feeling like we can um have the resources to bring to the things that we most care about and feel like we're living well.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: I get how that's a big broad space, and yet it feels so foundational to um having, again, the resources to to live well and appreciate life.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: But what do you mean by resources?
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: Time is a resource, how we how we uh engage our time.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: Energy is essential in order to engage with what we do.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then how we choose to focus our attention um influences what we can take in.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: But I think so those are I I think one of the reasons I think when I think of resources, one of them would be access.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: And and not everybody has access, not just to the information, but access to perhaps what contributes to true nourishment, whether that's diet, whether that's a place to improve fitness.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't know.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe that's where I get skeptical.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, even our lives, uh, Robin, as young athletes, I'm not so sure much of it was about nourishment.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: I just think there's a lot in the health and well-being world or sector that isn't truly linked to nourishment.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's about it's about something else.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: And invariably, sometimes it's about selling something else.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: And for the entire population, there's more people that are suffering from too little.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_03: I understand that.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: Too little movement than too much.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: We can overdo food, we can be obsessive about food, we can overdo exercise.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I I agree with that.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: And what you're getting at is there's what we do and then how we do it.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, what underpins the the exploration of true nourishment is the relationship that we have to our bodies, to each other, and to life.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: And with that, um working with with core principles of does my engagement and way of doing this or or being with this uh support my vitality, support my relationships, and support how I want to show up to what matters.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: So the underlying principles are there.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: It it's not just um, am I gonna feel better for for this in the moment?
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: Does it truly support uh the long view of where I want to go with my life and what's fortifying it?
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: So And I don't disagree with any of that.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I think the more I understand or or get my head around what nourishment is, and it wasn't a word, and it still isn't a word in my uh in my toolkit.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think about what nourishes me.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think about things that make me feel better.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe that's the same thing.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh in the long run, right?
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like not short-term, long run.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes short term.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes short term.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: But I think, you know, back to the notion of long term, what I believe distinguishes nourishment is if there's delayed gratification in the conversation or the equation, if I engage in this consistently for an extended period of time, there's going to be benefit.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so whether that's changing your eating habits, your exercise habits, your relationships with yourself, with others, it's not a one-off, it's not a fix, it's not a quick fix.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's kind of how I distinguish it.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: Nourishment invariably requires the long view, as you point out.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas, sort of my interpretation of what, well, I there'd be no interpretation of nourishment because I didn't, I didn't care about it, really, and because it wasn't part of my discussion.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: What I cared about was becoming fitter and stronger, and what contributed to my body's ability to perform at a high level.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: So that was diet, it was sleep, and it was training.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, and I don't just think it's about elite athletes.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think that trickles down into the greater population of people who are having these conversations, not necessarily about nourishment, but about wanting to be healthier, wanting to extend my life, wanting to, you know, sort of fill in the blank.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: What's the latest podcast telling me about how much fat I should be eating, what kind of fat I should be eating, uh, how much protein, um, what's the class I should sign up for?
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I just think we've compartmentalized it so much and made it about box ticking that I think we're missing the big picture, which is which is the bigger conversation about what's what truly nourishes us.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: I don't slow down enough to ask myself that question.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: And and I guess the irony in that is that the slowing down is is what nourishes me.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, you know, as I've said before, I'm a recovering type A.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so in the existence of a type A, you know, slowing down is not part of, excuse me, the, it's just not part of the world.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: It is about the next, it is about chase, it is about uh moving forward obsessively.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I think too many people fall into the trap of of the doing part of what nourishes us.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: And and they forget about the part that you very importantly want to raise awareness to, which is the being part.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: Is that fair?
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: It it's fair.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it to me, it's not an either-or proposition.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: There's lots of doing that supports our being.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: If we don't take care and attend to things that matter, that require action, uh, stress can pile up and we can feel depleted by that.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's so it's can we engage with what we're doing in a way that allows us to feel fulfilled in that doing, uh, well spent in the doing rather than deplete it.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: And and so it's the doing and the being.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it points back to, for me, um, this circles back to our understanding of our nervous systems and how we attend to the world.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, when we're in a place of sufficient safety, then uh and are inhabiting our bodies connect it to life, then that way of attending has a a relational quality of being that supports our whole self, engaging in in what we're doing.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: And it also um it's physiologically supporting our well-being.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: If we're in task mode under a state of threat and overwhelmed, then that left-dominant way of attending to the world, left brain-dominant way of attending to the world, has a more uh it perpetuates itself because the more stress we feel, the more we don't want to inhabit our body, and the more we flip into uh ticking off the boxes and getting more, trying to get more done as a way of coping.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: So it's being able to have the awareness of what state we're in, and stepping back from automatic pilot sufficiently to um reflect on what is the rhythm of my day and week in a way that I can engage in those things that help my nervous system come back into balance and that help me feel good about my life and and the world, especially at a time, you know, the times always have their stuff to deal with, but there's a lot happening in the world and in people's lives at at this time.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so this is a fundamental principle of turning towards the good and the beautiful and things that support a sense of possibility of what can be together and what is that is life-affirming.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: And and so making a point of bringing those into our attention uh and into our purview in a way that um we know that the magnet of what's wrong with the world and our lives gets a stronger pull by way of the negativity bias and our nervous systems wanting to pay attention to things that could hurt us or others.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so on purpose, bringing our attention back to the things that really fill us up.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it's it's working with the deeper principles of what really sustains my energy, my vitality, um, what allows my mind to be clear and sharp.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: And am I giving my attention to the things that I most want to give it to?
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: And how do I minimize those things that distress and don't help me contribute to the world in a positive way?
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and and every time I listen to you, I can just feel my my it's very comforting, right?
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: And and it's and it's awesome to think about, to imagine.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't know, unless you're living as a monk, I don't know, um I don't know how much of it is uh possible or attainable.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: I you know, I I your your comment about task mode, I would say the majority of the people listening to this podcast spend a good chunk of their day in task mode.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's just the nature of of our world right now.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: And probably has been for, yeah, and has been for ages.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so I guess my question is, it sounds awesome, and and can I buy one of those?
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: But when I get it home and unpack it, it just becomes, oh, I've got yeah, but I've got to do this, and I've got to do this, and this has to get done, and oh, I'm I'm supposed to make this call.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I just think our tasks take over.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so I guess my question is for you is how do we catch ourselves in that hyper-vigilant, high-paced uh mode of getting stuff done and remind ourselves to come back to okay, just I need to slow down, take a breath, and get a sense of where I am and where I want to go.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: And that, because that's always that's always my question around this is it's awesome what you're describing, right?
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: And and and the idea of arriving at a place that involves nourishment.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: Beautiful.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: But I think in any time that we that we we know where we want to go, we need to understand where we are first.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I think part of understanding where we are first is acknowledging that a lot of a lot of what occupies our days, although it does tick the fitness, diet, sleep boxes, and is and is following the latest uh bit of information that we've heard on a popular podcast, and that's all great to an extent, but but again, does it is it over here under under the supposed notion of health and well-being, or is it under the idea of health and uh sorry, um uh nourishment?
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, I won't say it's my pushback, but it's my dilemma in this.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know how I don't know how you how you So let me ask you a question.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: The workshops we do are called healthy high performance.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: So where do you think nourishment fits with healthy high performance?
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: I get that.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the that's the piece.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: I look, I understand our workshops, and I realized that healthy It sounds like you don't right now.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, we got uh got a hungry bear here behind us.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's lunchtime.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I understand that it's always the healthy word that raises eyebrows, right?
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like, where does health land in the high performance conversation?
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: And and I get that now.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: I truly do.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like I do, because when I was involved in in high performance as an athlete and as a coach, health was not part of the conversation, right?
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so, and I recognize now that that the byproduct of that was an early retirement, right?
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: It undermined, why are you laughing at me like that?
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta stop laughing.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: It undermined not just my ability to perform, but the length of my career as an elite athlete.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I I own that.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so I I get that you know, meditation is now part of my life.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: Journaling, huge part of my life.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: So there's you got to give me credit for some of this stuff, but I am giving you credit.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: So like I'm trying, but but I still fall into the like I freaking love getting stuff done.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: I love the tasks, and it still gives me a sense of accomplishment and a bit of a rush and a dopamine hit and all those sorts of things.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: So, what's your point here?
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, my point is is that I get sometimes I return to that chase, right?
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: That I know burned my ass as a younger man and made me not a very happy camper.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: But it is so ingrained in who I am sometimes that the box ticking pushes nourishment out of the room.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I go, oh yeah, I'll get to that, or I'll get to that, or that's next.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Let me get this done first.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas I need something to catch me when I am head down getting stuff done to say, Jace, bud, hello.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's sharpen the saw, it's whatever metaphor you want to give it.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like enough.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Take a break and let's let's take care of you for a moment here.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's where I get stuck.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll guarantee that there are people listening to this, please I hope, who who understand what I'm saying because I understand there's time constraints.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: There's there's just stuff that needs to get done.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'll shut up there.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: The the real parameters of our lives are something to creatively engage in.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: But none of us do it perfectly.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: Can can we step back and reflect for a moment about the elements that do truly nourish us and get creative about uh um engaging in that way so that uh we can uh support we can have the the the time, energy, and attention uh that we want to bring to what matters to us.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so uh true nourishment can look like different things to different people.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: And people, you know, having conversations with people who have been so angry about injustice in the world, burning up in the flames of that, and uh uh knowing that their survival depends on finding a way.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I think one of the core elements that is a really important part of this conversation is how we deal with difficult emotions.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because if we don't have some skillfulness and capacity to deal with difficult emotions, we push away, we avoid, or we burn up in anger.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: And again, no emotion is is wrong.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's just if we have chronic anger or unprocessed grief that stays stuck, um then it's very difficult to have the energy and attention to show up and engage in ways.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: And uh we all that's part of all of our lives.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's just can we um be aware, sufficiently aware of What our state is, and then build the capacity to work when we're chronically stressed or have had overwhelming life experiences that have us um really struggling to show up at our best.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so can we be?
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: So my question is, how can we be?
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: So what are the what are the tools, what are the strategies that you can offer myself and some of our listeners that that and I don't like the word hack because um I don't know, I just don't as much as I believe hack has a has a place in health and well-being and getting our days to function at a higher level, for some reason, I don't know, I think the nuance of of nourishment doesn't involve hacks.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's there's a uh softness isn't the right word, but there's a there's a deeper understanding to to nourishment.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: That, wow, I got you to nod in agreement.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm okay, I'm on a roll.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's a deeper understanding to be had that doesn't involve, you know, sort of a quick fix.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, try this hack.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: I need a strategy, I need a tool, but I also want to want to remain under the umbrella of nourishment, if that makes sense.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I want something that's going to remind me to come back to nourishment and not be so hell-bent on fitness, on making sure I'm meeting the- I mean, those are all important things, but sometimes I lose sight of nourishment in my pursuit of greater fitness, uh, better mindfulness, even.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, hell, yeah, even that.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you think they would hold hands, but I think sometimes mindfulness for me can be a box to tech.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I've I've done my meditation for the day.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I'm done.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: And and so what you're speaking to is the elements that again, how we attend to things.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um circling back to Ian Gilgrass work in the hemispheric differences between the left and right brain and how they attend to the world.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so the right brain has the map of our bodies and our relationships.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: And when we attend uh to the world and to ourselves and each other in that way, it's an embodied connected state that values relationships and has a map of the whole.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: The left evolved to manipulate the world, and so it's very good at analyzing and task mode.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: And we need that.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's really important, and that's why it's not either or.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: But if if you are in chronic left way of orienting, you can be cut off from your felt sense of what you care about and how you're connecting to others.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so for me, that's where intention is a powerful place.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, one of the most powerful tools, and I think I've uh touched on it somewhere in in the past, right, is practicing an intention pause where as we move through our day and engage in what's next, pausing to ask, how do I want to show up to this?
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: Why does this matter to me?
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: And how do I want to uh engage?
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: So remembering who we want to be can be an important way of having an intention to nourish.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, okay, good one.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so with that, uh taking stock of those things that tr truly nourish us and and even reflecting and writing on that so that we have um because sometimes we forget.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's like um, and that's where both the immediate and brief can be nourishing.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but again, it there's a rhythm and dance to to how we infuse that.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: I can think of hearing a song, and it's like, oh, that's such an awesome song.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel filled up listening to it, and it goes deep.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just it's a lovely moment.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so, um, and then having a list of songs that energize me and make me want to move or uh help me process uh a sad feeling, if that's the case, uh different elements for different purposes.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um but when we know what that is and and take time to um fill them in, it it can be um, it doesn't have to be a big thing, it can be little things.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, the metaphor is the tea of life.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: And as I say, I'm like a baby with a sippy cup with my tea.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: I I tend to have it wherever I go.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: I like being hydrated, I like having uh a warm drink in cooler weather and and being refreshed.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it can be little things or bigger things.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um speaking to our daughter earlier in the week, Matea, um, she was sharing a story about a friend who had uh we knew that she'd had a really uh some tough things in the past year.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then she just had a real breakthrough in her work that was going to offer so much support, and that just filled me up hearing about that.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so uh the principle, and and again, I may have mentioned this before, uh, Medida is uh the joy we experience for others' well-being, and it's rooted in compassion.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: That is a real source of sustenance for me.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: Your joy is my joy.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: Your joy is my joy.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: So uh the dogs, when they're living life and enjoying it, just the element of connection with them.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the the exuberance.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: When they're fed and not hungry, they're exuber the exuberance in their eyes.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: So um there's different elements in our lives that register in a way that give us energy, that raise our vitality.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: And some of that is just appreciating life and appreciating the goodness that nourishes and sustains us, as well as working with principles of in the long view of things, what gives me energy, what um allows me to engage my time in ways that the things that matter most get protected uh through my days and week.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: So planning is part of that.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: And there are different ways to work with that.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: But we have to know what truly nourishes us uh to be able to do that.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and uh, but I I think you know, what comes up for me is is how poorly we've done at this.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: And who's we?
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: We, society, perhaps, okay?
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: And but I I mean, you know, as we've talked about before, and it comes up in our work.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: What's that book, The Anxious?
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: What?
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: What's it what is it again?
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: Jonathan Haites, The Anxious Generation.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: The anxious generation.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, in the about um the impact of technology and especially for digital natives growing up.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: With with digital, digital natives being kids who have grown up, and that's all they've got.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: With with with smartphones, cell phones, with technology in a way that our generation didn't.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: So so that book is a response to a generation that didn't look to nourishment, that that looked to something that uh where there was no delayed gratification, it was the complete opposite.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: It was immediate gratification.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not, and I don't want to just crap on the kids here.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, adults do it too.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: I get myself, I I get caught, I get pulled into my phone, and and I catch myself going, holy smokes, Jay's like, chill.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I can understand how it could happen to a young mind to just go and get sucked into a phone.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so this book has had a tremendous impact on schools and their policies around tech.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: And like, I don't think there's a school open in North America who doesn't have a policy around phone use now as a direct response to that book and to and to the acknowledgement that we need to find a better plan here, because the immediate gratification that many people look to the phone for is running amok.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's taken us off track.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's taken us away from the notion of true nourishment.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you want to throw something in there?
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: Well, just to as a point of clarification, what Jonathan Hayt did was rather than uh parents making a decision for one individual child to not have them using uh a cell phone and then feeling isolated from uh social connection online from their peer group, uh implementing policies and working on a systemic level so that communities decide together how they want to utilize technology and how they want their children to utilize technology.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: And and so, yes, um we know the awesomeness of technology for all the good it can do, and and then the ongoing conversation for uh the aspect of our attention, what is truly nourishing and aligned with what we want to take in.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: And and so coming back to my training in energy medicine that was rooted in ancient Chinese medicine, if you look at the elements as a metaphor for different qualities of life, the earth element uh relates to how we take in nourishment and not just from our food, but from from life.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's a it's about taking in, but being able to uh assimilate and transform what is truly nourishing my body and being.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: And with the impulsivity and the addictive quality that technology invites on purpose, being able to put boundaries around that so that we use the tech, it doesn't use us.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that's where I'm going with this is that you know, you look at those digital natives who are now late teens, twenties, maybe early 30s, and you look at the explosion of online gambling, porn addiction, uh social media, online bullying, you know, there's just so many different areas where tech addiction has had a poor ending or a poor expression, if you will, right?
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's where I believe the idea of nourishment, I don't know why I keep coming to this part of the death, but if if if nourishment lives over here, and then all of the other components are scattered around it.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: And if we're going to talk about tech addiction, I mean, there's a there's an element of that, there's a component of that that gives us, that makes us feel good, makes us feel better quickly.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: But the long game of that is is not.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't make it, it doesn't serve us in terms of nourishment and making us feel good in the long run.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: And that comes back to the idea of nourishment involves delayed gratification.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: It it can it can.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: Invariably does.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so when you look at some of the areas where uh where we tend to go in those moments of wanting escape, it's not always under the guise of nourishment.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's often things that are quick in terms of what they're gonna give me now, because I want to feel different now.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I watched this comedian online the other day.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: He was freaking hilarious talking about when he was younger, you rode a bus and you watch the condensation trip down the glass, right?
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like that was you, he calls himself, I was a mindful guru because I could sit in a bus and watch water drive.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: Today, no, you get on a bus and everybody's got a computer screen in front of their face that's teeny tiny.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody's noticing the condensation anymore.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: So, anyway, it was a he he went into some other ones which were which aren't appropriate for here, but they were very funny and true.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: So what leads me back to is I think the nourishment piece, the part that we don't talk about enough is the mental health and the emotional well-being that ha that is missing when we when we only focus on fitness and diet and sleep and the components of what we think nourishment are.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: Is that those are huge for mental health than that?
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: I get that.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: I get that, but we don't talk about it enough.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like we're not naming it enough, I don't think.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: We're not naming what the mental and emotional piece.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's better.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think we I think there's certainly more of a mental health awareness, absolutely.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: But at the end of the day, I think that's a part that we don't like.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: When you're talking to your friends, or hey, uh, you know, I'm I'm going to this new class, or oh, I'm trying this new diet.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody says, oh, I'm, you know, I'm seeing this this great counselor that's it's just not.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: Am I uh am I missing this, or is that a piece of it?
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm missing what you're trying to say in this.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: What I'm trying to say is that we love the shiny parts of of what we consider nourishment, the parts that prop us up, uh exercise, diet, fitness classes, talking about our sleep app, or getting in 10,000 steps.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think the part that I want to make sure we taught we touch on is that as much as the quick fix works, uh and that notion of escape can make us feel better in moments of stress and or overwhelm or just exhaustion.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it's an easy exit.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: I get all that, and and I do it, but I want to be able to remind myself, to catch myself even, and pull myself back to to live more in the nourishment world.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: And and I and I don't think I'm alone.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's other listeners out there who feel the same way that I so I sometimes reach for the sugary drink when I should be reaching for the kale.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: And not to give kale a bad name.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, you know what I mean.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: Long, long view, kale's gonna serve you better than the sugary drink every time.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not to say a sugary drink once in a while.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's what you do every day, not once in a while.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: I get that.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: But I want to have a strategy, a tool, a reminder that keeps me living here in the nourishment more than in the survival escape world.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: So that's my that that's the one piece I want to leave with.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so bringing bringing it back to intentions, is this in tune with my uh long-term values and who I want to be and what is it serving?
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: Does it stress or strengthen in in the long view?
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: So the difference between something that's easy, comfortable, and pleasant, there could be some nourishment in that.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: But sometimes the hard thing, making space to process grief is not easy, but it will uh feed and support you.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh doing a workout will bring your vitality up, but it might not be the easy thing to do in the moment.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's the distinction between what is truly nourishing versus avoidance and mood repair, um, not just for food, but with what we take in.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes looking at content that is difficult can help us make sense of things that are important.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: A conversation earlier in the week on a difficult topic, uh, again with our uh with Matea, our daughter, I really appreciated our dialogue.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: None of neither one of us had any solid footing in making sense of a social issue, but we both came to it with curiosity and openness, trying to understand different points of view.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: And and that space, along with digging to understand different perspectives and doing it with somebody who was open and curious felt was very fulfilling.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_00: And again, it's it's not always the easy choice.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's inviting the questions of does this support my vitality?
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: Does it support the relationships I want to have?
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it just does it support the world I want to live in with me showing up to how I want to be.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: And do I also have a clearer knowing of what truly fills me up, what makes me grateful to be alive, and empowers and enables me to turn to the things that I care about.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: And and that can be different dimensions of ourselves.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's the direction that we want to go in in life.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, do I um imagining that?
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: And do I have a clear sense of the future and the possibilities that I want to create?
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: And is my action in line with that?
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's taking in beauty and knowing how to breathe properly, knowing how to let go of things.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: What gives me joy?
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: Where do I like to take in beauty, whether it's through sound vision or the goodness of people?
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: Is there time in my life for stillness and pause?
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: And circling back to the things that relate to health, a lot of that relates to energy, with sleep being foundational.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: So when we have uh sufficient sleep and other health habits that relate to us, that we have we bring the energy that we want to the things we care about.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, there's an interrelationship with those elements.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: So with time, it's putting the things that matter most into our calendar with the energy.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: Do I have a rhythm and lifestyle that gives me the energy uh that I want and attention?
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: What am I feeding my mind?
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: And is my mind focused on the things that I want it to be focused on?
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_00: Or am I pulled all over the place through uh the things that are rated our purview?
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the calendar piece is important.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think everybody would well, maybe not everyone, but I think a lot of people would agree that the calendar putting things in your calendar, although well intended, if everybody stuck to their calendar, I don't think we'd be, we'd this conversation wouldn't be as challenging.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because when you put fitness class or yoga class or um meditation, or you you put all the pieces that feed nourishment, when you feed that into your calendar, it's all well intended.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't think we follow the recipe, if if you will.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's hard to follow the recipe.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: But when we do, and and I'll and I'm the first to admit, when I when I do all those things, my day is better.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not that I don't believe you.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's just that because I've experienced it.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't use the word nourishment, but I know what that feels like.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_01: But there are, but I just think in in the world, in the rush, it's it's hard to go there.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not just me.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: I I, you know, I've talked about mom before.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: So this would have been what, 60s, 70s, where she had four children, mom and dad, both work full-time.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember when we had Matea and how crazy it was.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember asking her, Mom, how did you manage?
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: Both working full-time, four children, on and on.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: And she said there was about 10 years there where I didn't know who I was.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, holy smokes, like I would have never known that.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, she was super mom as far as I was concerned.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: And but I didn't realize that there was an awareness of struggle.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so, for listeners, what are the what are the ways that we can know ourselves in those 10 years and make sure we're setting ourselves up to know ourselves so that we don't look back and go, oh man, that was a rough decade.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: I was just hanging on.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_01: So, how do we not just hang on, but how do we sort of thrive during that time?
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the part that I want to make sure every, you know, that we can leave with listeners in terms of in terms of strategies and and and things to make sure that that nourishment, not just the box sticking, although many of them are important, that that at the end of the day we're focused on nourishment, not just what the scale says.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Or what our step tracker says or what our sleep app says, but we're looking at the big picture.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: And and that for me comes back to our state as we're doing.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's it's the how.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's not just the doing, it's the how, but it it's also the doing.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: Part of my inspiration again comes from my mom in being a consummate caregiver, but not having uh included herself in her circle of care.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so back to two metaphors that feel very uh significant in uh dialogue about nourishment.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: Together we fly.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: Social connection is a fundamental way that we are nourished, and research uh shows that it supports our health and well-being, being warm-caring relationships.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's something we'll dive deeper into at another time.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_00: So that element, and then uh taking care of the goose that lays the gold, the gold of what matters most to us, if we nurture our own goose and take care of ourselves, then we get to feed the gold in our lives.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so what what are we being fed by and what are we feeding in our lives?
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: And perhaps doing an audit of what what in the last week, how have we engaged our time, energy, and attention, not just what did we do, but what was the quality of our being?
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: So when I go for a run in the woods, uh a big part of the measure of the quality of that is how I feel when I'm finished.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_00: If I feel grateful and open-hearted and expanded, I know I've been present and uh I feel filled up.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's can we uh organize our life knowing that we all have constraints of uh work and responsibilities to attend to, but can we prime ourselves in how we show up to that with intention that nourishes and sustains us as we do those things?
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: But there's a physiological component to that, and when part of our attention is attending to the instrument of us in a way that supports our well-being and also attends to others, aligned with how we do want to show up for other people, that is a big part of the conversation to me.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I I would like to leave people with some questions as we finish up.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_00: Is there anything else that you want to say as we speak to this?
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like I say, when every time I listen to you, my heart rate comes down and I calm calm myself.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_01: But uh again, it's the application.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's having the pri you know, and you come back to the word state all the time, and I frickin' hate that word because I feel like I always drop the ball in that zone.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a good doer.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: Got that part piece of cake, but it's the being part still, you know, even though I'm a hell of a lot better than I was.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_01: Holy ball.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_01: But um that's the work.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's my work, is the state.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: Who am I while I am doing?
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a constant reminder.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_01: And when I am aware of who I am, I'm better.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_01: Not just as a person, but I'm better at the doing.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's the paradox of what I was taught as a young athlete was that if you're a prick, you're gonna do better.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, and that was a freaking lie, right?
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_01: That was a big lie.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_01: But I've carried that, that the intensity, the I can do it on, I can do it by myself, get out of my way, that has that has moved through my life.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and I'm you know, I was done with it decades ago, and I'm much better than I was, but it still haunts.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_01: And coming, just having that reminder to to to focus on that piece, who am I being, right?
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_01: And when I can do that, I find I live more in the nourishment.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_00: And what you're speaking.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_01: Even through this conversation, I feel like I've had a few penny drop moments of okay, I knit this is clearly something I need to revisit or stay present to anyway.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: And the critical factor of compassion and self-compassion, when we notice a gap between how we're being and how we aspire to be.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_00: And may I suggest that the more you practice turning towards yourself, the way you turn towards Oakley and Bella and other people, because you're a kind person.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: And again, for all of us, it's easier to be kinder to others sometimes than than ourselves.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm better.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um but especially in a space where it's not about words, which is when we greet our our our creatures, it's about heart and how we show up.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: And you're reminded of that every time you're absolutely and it softens you and brings you into the moment.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_00: There are mirrors that's your practice.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's my practice.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_01: That I will I'll report back.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so in addition to taking an audit of where our time, energy, and attention has been in the last week, asking what am I consuming that I'm not actually able to digest?
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_00: What genuinely leaves me more alive, connected, and able to contribute, and what deserves more of my finite time, attention, and energy in the week ahead.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_00: Sit with those, uh, play with them and see what what happens.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's some serious homework.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_00: And it can be some play and some fun.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_01: But it doesn't involve a class, that's the problem, right?
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna tell anyone, hey, guess what?
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_01: I sat home and thought about my presence and state and but I mean, not to mock it, it's important, right?
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_01: But it's not as sort of flashy and it's not something you put up on social media.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's the that's the challenge here, is that we value the shiny and diet, exercise, trackers, that's shiny.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_01: But important.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_01: And in and important.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not saying they're not, but this is equally, if not more, important because it is foundational.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_01: And and we don't necessarily go around talking about it.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's the work, right?
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_01: So okay.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thanks everybody.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for listening.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for being here with us.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_01: We'll look forward to seeing you again here next week after I've done my my homework of being more present.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks everyone.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_00: See you next time.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_01: Take care.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_01: Bye-bye.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_01: Before we go, we'd like to leave you with the guiding questions at the heart of Imagine the Good.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_01: What's good in the world?
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_01: How can I build on that?
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_01: And what might become possible if I did?
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_01: Take a little time to sit with those questions.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_01: And if this conversation brought someone to mind, consider sharing it with them.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for spending this time with us.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_01: If you'd like to help others discover Imagine the Good, please follow or subscribe to the show and leave us a rating and review wherever you listen.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_01: Until next time, keep finding the good in your world.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_01: Look for moments to elevate and celebrate life in your circles, and imagine what we can become together.