Latest / Don Talk - Conversations with Mike Turner / Code Switching & Identity: Who Are You When You Stop Performing?

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Code Switching & Identity: Who Are You When You Stop Performing? · Don Talk - Conversations with Mike Turner

• Mr. Anderson: up, Hey, this right here, see, this is my wife Trishon. know, she's everybody. Good, how are you? Nice to meet you. What's up? ⁓ The queen of cold switch, I don't even know if she's kind of doing that. RC: How you doing? Don Talk: Hey Trey, RC: Likewise, likewise, likewise. Don Talk: Okay, ⁓ now that you're here, we talked about co-switching from a black male perspective, right? In your world as a black woman, like how have you had to navigate or not dealing with co-switching to be, I guess to continue to climb the ladder and be successful in what society in this world deems success? RC: Come on. Mr. Anderson: Okay. Yeah, honestly, I feel like mine kind of goes the opposite because I grew up in all white communities, ⁓ you know, from home, every school I was in, I was the only little speckled of pepper, you know, in classes and in things. ⁓ And so that is what I learned. Like that was my normal repertoire is to speak proper, you know, and RC: Hmm. Mr. Anderson: at the cost of being called an Oreo and all the things by black children at my school. ⁓ So I kind of had a good education, but it was like rough socially, I think. And so now it's interesting, cause like when I met him and he's from LA and I met him down in LA and then started talking with his friends and family and they'd be like, where'd she come from? I feel like I had to reverse code switch and learn how to, I wouldn't say learn how to talk black because I will thank my grandparents for putting us in church and that was my black community and we were there Sunday through Sunday. So I did feel like I did have that space of my blackness and to show that and to learn culturally different things, phrases, words and things like that. So I would say mine is kind of in reverse. into his neighborhood around his friends I have to switch and I gotta switch that's what I'm saying like you talk white Don Talk: So ⁓ that's a good point, that's a good point in question. ⁓ So listen. RC: Whoa, okay, there you go. Here we go. Mr. Anderson: I mean, that is not the politically correct way to say it. I know that, but that's what I got as a kid, you know? So in my work environment, it doesn't really affect me as such. feel like I still, I talk regular. I talk the way I talk now. ⁓ And that's just how they see me. And maybe it's, you know, more non-threatening, I guess you can say. But when I do get around my Black coworkers, then I feel like we kind of, you know, let loose. and be who we are naturally. ⁓ Or do you feel that you have because how you are is how you are. I feel like I gotta talk black. Right. No, no, she feels, she feels right. She has to cold switch around, you know, black people. Yeah, I don't cold switch around white people. I feel like I cold switch around black people. Yeah, that's the difference, right? Don Talk: Yeah. And because of how you were, the environment in which you were raised. Mr. Anderson: Yeah. Because it's going. RC: Man, she said a phrase. No, I'm just saying, real quick, you said a phrase that hit me like a bag of bricks over the head. And the phrase was, no, no, no, it was important. And I mean, was sincerity and truth. You said non-threatening, and it hit me. Mr. Anderson: essay. Mm-hmm. Yeah. RC: And it was like who gets to determine it? And I've been in this body for about four years. And I'm sitting here like who gets to determine what's threatening and or not. And so I know, I know brother Don talking, you the one who asked the questions, but I want to ask the question if I can, you can tell me we're going to throw this out. Who gets to determine non-threatening? Don Talk: laughter Mr. Anderson: Yeah. Mmm. RC: And I'm always willing to bet you that the person who gets to determine non-threatening is also the same person who gets to determine professional, is also the person who gets to determine marginalization, is also the person. You understand what I'm saying? So I'm just gonna leave it out there now. Now you can do whatever you want to with that, brother. I just wanted to throw it out there. Mr. Anderson: ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Hey, so just a real quick quote, right? My personality is who I am. My attitude is who you are. I love that. Don Talk: No, that's a good point. Go ahead, go ahead. Mmm. RC: I got a shirt that says something like that too. It's like, know what? I match energy. So you decide how we gonna act. Mr. Anderson: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Awesome. Well, thanks for letting me have a moment. Don Talk: Oh, I love that shirt. I need that shirt. So that's... Anytime we're gonna have you on another episode, we was gonna sit you down and we gonna dive into what type of man you married to. Mr. Anderson: Okay. RC: There you go. Mr. Anderson: Right, that's all. But that's all if you want honest talk. I already got in trouble a few times with what said. You know? Wait a minute. Don't be putting me on blast, okay? No, it may even take your soul. Our episode, if your partner cheated on you, would you want to know? ⁓ Look at my face. RC: and You already on blast. Don Talk: Oh, you got mad at that Trashon? Hey Trashon, cause you know, you know I was sitting here like, so you saying if Trashon has 17 different partners, you wouldn't care? She's like, I wouldn't want to know. Mr. Anderson: Yeah, he's no no in my in my mind I have a faithful wife because we can think any way we want to of our partners I decide to believe that my wife is faithful. I've decided to believe that she loves only me and she not going out doing Whatever, that's what I decide because if I if I was a person that I used to be Don Talk: You could decide that all you want, but Trashon know it, Trashon know it. Mr. Anderson: Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, RC: Yeah, I was in the game. I'm on the bench now though and I like watching it from the sideline. I ain't gonna lie to you. I said I was in the game for about a good 16 years. I'm on the bench now. I like watching it from the sidelines. As a spectator. I mean go to the driving range and I don't even hit the course no more. I'm lying, partially. I'm lying, I'm partially lying. Don Talk: Hey, there we go. Hey. Mr. Anderson: I'm good. Man, but yeah, and I mean, that's in back to that quote, you know, I was doing an intake and one of the people that, you know, I was speaking to, they said that and I said, Whoa, my personality is who I am. attitude is who you are. That said a lot. That's that that kind of spoke to me. And I think that had a lot to do with coast switching because depending on who you're talking to. Right? we, when are we brave? Are we brave enough to be ourselves in at a time where we know we probably need to code switch? RC: So Mike, are you gonna get anything about context on this? Because this brother just asked a whole question and set up a whole framework on context. Don Talk: No, let's go down there because that's, I mean, we was eventually gonna get there, but like, we there now. So let's talk about it. We're good. RC: My bad, my bad, I'm acting like I'm chilling. Don Talk: No, we're good. That's why I told you from the get go, there's a, there's an outline, but we rarely ever follow that outline because we be, we still on topic. So let's go. Let's go with it. RC: No, because I think context matters, because... ⁓ If I spoke the way that I used to at work and and and and just so y'all know Brother Don talk over here has seen the transition because there was me in the first four years in my position and then there's me now What you get now is pretty much what you get right now. I don't care if you're a president ⁓ or a VP or a dean or you get this right now Why because I finally got to a point that I realized however you see me that's your problem. My credentials have not changed. My experiences have not changed. But the context piece... Now go ahead. Mr. Anderson: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Don Talk: ⁓ So can I pause right there in that speech, that pace? Don't forget the context part of it, but are you saying that when we first met, you had the mentality that you had to co-switch to prove yourself in that environment? RC: Well, I don't know if it was to prove myself. I think I code switch to keep my opposition to a minimum. You understand what I'm saying? I didn't want to have to fight past things that weren't on my way to the prize because I never really believed in having to fit in with anybody because when you are the original, why do I need to fit in with you? Right. When you're the original, why do I need to fit myself in your box? Your box is not meant to me. The box is synonymous with a cage. A cage is synonymous with a prison. A prison is synonymous with bondage. So why do I need to sit in your bondage? I just wanted to be able to get to whatever there was with the least amount of resistance. But now what I have learned in this little short life of mine, is that resistance is going to come anyway. And it's just going to come from different places. But going back to the context portion for me, I can't go home speaking like I did five years ago on my job. I wouldn't be authentic at home. Just like I couldn't go on my job. and speak like I do at home growing up because it's not that I wouldn't be accepted, even though I probably wouldn't be because they probably wonder why we paying this guy this amount to sound like this, but. The biggest fear for me in that space would be how many times I would have to repeat myself. Right? Because if somebody's like, hey, the party starts in five minutes, where are you? And if I'm like, you know, I'll be over there to the ruffle. They're gonna be like, the hell? Look at y'all, even y'all and we all black. That's what I'm saying. Mr. Anderson: I like a ruffin. RC: See, that's what I'm saying. But you know what saying? If I say certain things like that, somebody from Northern Louisiana would know exactly what I said and they wouldn't even change a facial expression because that's how we spoke in certain areas of Northern Louisiana. If you really city Shreveport, you wouldn't, this is not how you speak. But if you in Sibley, right? And somebody asked me, hey man, where's the spade game? I'm like, we're going to be up there on the hill, you know what saying? And they're going to be like, ⁓ OK, cool. know exactly where he's going to be. Or ⁓ you see, and that's my point, it depends on the context. But if I was to speak in a way that I've been accustomed to speak in other places, mean, man, it took me being in Philly for about five years for me to realize that a John was everything. Don Talk: be asking for directions. RC: You could have a whole conversation with somebody using the word John as a noun, a verb, an adverb, a dangling participle, everything else. You wanna hear it? Check this out. Say, bro, check this out, Mr. Anderson: Yes. RC: So you remember that John that was at the barbershop that was over there with the John with the highlights in her hair, man, that drove the silver John, man? Yeah, man, I saw both of them Johns over there, man, over there by the Philly cheesesteak John, man. It got to the John on the corner, man. The John started letting that John off on them Johns, man. But you could do this whole conversation using the word John. And somebody in Philly like, yeah, I saw that John too. You know, where somebody from the Carolinas or Louisiana be like, what the hell is a John? Right? Don Talk: Yeah. But I understood that whole conversation. Mr. Anderson: I pretended that I understood. RC: Yeah, and you did. Don Talk: No, I understood. RC: Yeah, but guess what? The more places you've been and the more people you've been around, mean, come on, man. Y'all been in spaces where, think about this, there's some people where you all are from that have never had your experiences and never had the opportunity to get outside of those spaces to be able to pick up those context clues that you all have been able to pick up. You all have traveled and well-versed, right? I got some people, man, that when I was in New Orleans before Katrina, Mr. Anderson: Okay. RC: They never been outside of their project. Mr. Anderson: Yeah. Yeah. RC: Think about this bro, when Katrina happened, don't take my word for this, I wanna be very, very clear. When they start saying, just put people on buses and get them on planes and get out of here, people like buses and planes, I never been passed downtown. Now you finna ship me off to Houston? Houston might as well be the other side of the world. Mr. Anderson: Right. RC: Right? And you go to a Houston, you tell somebody, hey man, I want a poor boy dress your herby. They don't know what to do with that. And they only five hours away. You see? Think about that. Right? So it depends on the context of what it is. And we talking about cold switching to cause cultures. We are such a dynamic group of people, even though the slave ship dropped off in different places, where we don't even recognize ourselves linguistically because we haven't even been in the company of each other geographically. And now you're going to add race to that? And you're going to add religion to that? And you're going to add culture to that? If I tell you, hey man, I want some string hobbles with some Coté Sainte-Balle on that, what you going to Exactly. Look at your face. Exactly. Don Talk: Yeah. Mr. Anderson: I don't know what the thing is like, huh? RC: Exactly, but but but if I was to go to Sri Lanka if I was to go to Colombo Sri Lanka And I said I want some string hoppers with some cut the Sun ball and send the Sun ball on there They're gonna bring out the arm the pepper curry. They're gonna bring out the coconut curry They're gonna bring out this whole like pancake type deal They've made in strings and fries, so it looks like some kind of hash brown now if I say I want egg hopper with that they're put the egg in there fry that a little bit throw them over there Mr. Anderson: So if you look, if you were to tell us that instead of telling us the first thing, would that be considered cold switching for you? Like if you would explain that to us first, instead of using the slang term, I'm assuming that's slang, right? Right? RC: No. Don Talk: Yeah, he's cold switching to tell us to first to understand. RC: That ain't slang. That's just what they call it in Sri Lanka. That's just language. Exactly, right and it's just the way that they would speak You know I'm saying if I were to tell you hey man, check this out man. I'm gonna make a South sandwich You know would you want one? Somebody in the black community gonna be like what the hell is the South sandwich? Somebody's gonna be like, ⁓ he ain't talking about number three the hog head cheese, but you want it on the bread and that But if we all go to work and say that people gonna be like I think he just cussed me out Don Talk: there. Mr. Anderson: So let me ask you a question. Is cold switching a positive or negative? Like is it either or? I'm trying to understand, is it a thing? Is it a good, like what is it? Sir, yes. RC: Can ask you a question? Can I ask you a question? Is it better to know 10 languages or one? Mr. Anderson: 10. Understood. like to keep it up, man. I'm up in here. One thing people from the South, man, like I said, y'all got some sayings. y'all just, I think one thing it was a friend of mine, we were in Ohio. And one day he said, man, I'm hiring the Jaguar payment. He said something like, man, I'm. Don Talk: Hahaha RC: Hey bro, we got that back. Let me tell you something bro. Mike will tell you bro. I got more sayings than come than got slayings. heard me? Okay, let me tuck my country back in. Mr. Anderson: Hey, wait, wait, wait! Don Talk: Ha ha ha! Hey, I'm definitely piecing that piece back in there. Mr. Anderson: Hey, so have any, all right, here's one. I was talking about this last night. This is like friendships and cold switching, right? Has any one of you brothers had to cold switch around friends? People that you felt that you can just be you in front of, right? But for some reason, maybe at a certain place or at a certain time, you felt like you had to cold switch around the people. like your actual friends. Like me cold-swishing around you, Mike. You think I ever cold-switch around you? Don Talk: I think we all do whether we realize it not. It may not be cold switching. It may be not releasing what's really going on in your mind. And if that's a form of cold switching, I'll take it. Because here's a prime example. I don't believe that the mind has an idle thought. So as you guys are sitting here, seemingly looking like you're listening to me, you're listening to me, comprehending what I'm saying, or your mind is off thinking about something else. Are you going to be honest with me about what you're really thinking at the time? So I always ask people, well, I know you are, R.C. I always ask people, especially like a significant other I'm trying to get to know. Mr. Anderson: That's her whoop. Don Talk: I always ask them, what are you thinking? Just it could be the random, most random time. What are you thinking right now? Because I want to, I want to piece together a puzzle that the face that I just saw you, the facial expression I just saw you in, I want to correlate that to a thought. So I always ask, like randomly, I see you looking a certain way. What are you thinking right now? RC: Mm. Don Talk: And if they tell me nothing, I don't believe you. Because I don't believe the mind has an idle thought. So is that a form of code switching or is that a form of just hiding your true identity, which I think both are one and the same. RC: you. Mr. Anderson: But the fact that you don't believe somebody or the fact that they're telling you the truth. Don Talk: So you saying that, so that, so. Mr. Anderson: because you believe there's no idol thought, doesn't make somebody else kind of. Don Talk: You can, so here's where, so here's where. Mr. Anderson: So I think that's something that's kind of within. Don Talk: No, here's, okay, could, okay, this is a good segue, good debate, right? Because as I dove deeper into this individual, as I kept asking, well, they were like, well, what I'm thinking about doesn't matter, but you're thinking about something. You could be sitting there thinking about the sky is blue. Mr. Anderson: Okay. Don Talk: but looks kind of reddish or whatever but you're too ashamed to say what you're thinking about because it's meaningless but you're thinking about something Mr. Anderson: Where'd you get this idea? Don Talk: So they say that you're only using 10 % of your brain, right? Is that a factual statement through scientific research? It's out there. So if you're only using 10 % of your brain, then at what point in time can you maximize the whole uses of it? But also, I'm a person that knows who I am and knows that Mr. Anderson: is out there. Don Talk: I also believe that I cannot be the only person that feels or believes this way. So I'm not saying I'm right or wrong, but if... RC: I'm gonna be quiet until y'all tell me I can talk. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, because again, I'm monitoring airtime. I don't know, Brother Deron probably got something to say, so I want him to get everything. Don Talk: I know you got something to say, but it's like, I'll see you. Mr. Anderson: ⁓ no, ⁓ I'm listening ⁓ and I'm taking his thoughts, ⁓ like the I don't mind, know, then I think about, well, am I thinking about the fact that do I have an I don't mind? You know what I mean? Don Talk: No, it's like the idle mind is the devil's playground. It's like all these things that we've been taught to, you know, and I guess not even taught, whether it's religion that's been pushed on us, idle mind is the devil's playground. Is it really? Like, you know, but so if your mind is idle, that means you're not thinking about anything, which can you literally be in a space where you're not thinking about nothing. RC: Mm-hmm. Okay, so having said that, I got a few thoughts. And explanation and code switching are not the same. So I have been in spaces with people I consider to be close friends who are not from the same cultures and backgrounds that I am. That... they will ask, what do you mean by that? And I have to explain it because they don't have the vocabulary about which to understand it unless I explain it to them. So to me, an explanation is not code switching. The initial question you asked was, I ever find myself code switching around close friends? Absolutely not. Because I don't care if you from where I'm from or not, close friends, when you consider yourself close, you know the spirit and the heart of the individual. So you may desire an explanation as to what they meant, but the energy never lies when you allow people to be in your close space like this. So don't have to code switch for that. ⁓ And you said something ⁓ just a while ago, you were like, I know who I am. You knew who you were when you said what you said, but you didn't know who you are now compared to then. Because anytime somebody impacts you with a brand new thought or a brand new idea that has created a wrinkle in your brain that did not exist before they did it. And therefore, even though you are slightly changed, you are a brand new person. Right. And to me, if you want to go to a spiritual space with this, to me, more so than being baptized, that is what it meant by being born again, because every time you have a new iteration of yourself, you are a brand new individual. Right. To me, that's what being born again means to me, because you're not the same as you were five minutes ago. Right? Now what does it say? And all about getting what? Get what? And understanding. And so that is why this podcast that you all are doing is a blessing. Don Talk: understanding. ⁓ RC: because it steeped on understanding even if somebody didn't necessarily agree. I don't have to agree with you. You don't have to agree with me. But are we going to emerge from this space better or worse? And it's so many different stimuli that have us emerge worse. mean, think about it. In the last, what, three weeks to a month, right? When we talk about professionalism, you didn't five years ago, 10 years ago, you had no office that was more professional. than the Office of the President of the United States. No, I don't care if you're Republican or Democrat or Independent. I'm talking about as far as a standard is concerned. That the presidential election, as long as it lasts a year or two years leading up to that, is the best job interview that one can have. Because any question that somebody's going to ask you to figure out your fit can be asked in that year to two years. Mr. Anderson: Mm-hmm. Right. RC: of a job interview. It used to be, in my estimation, that it used to be the most professional position that one could ever ask for. And without tipping my hand at all, I'm almost willing to guarantee that there is a lot of people that would argue with you. that the position has not necessarily exhibited what professionalism was that we thought it was two, three, four, five years ago, yet that position still stands. So have we cold switched as a global community is the question. Mr. Anderson: Mm-hmm. RC: We don't want to talk about that. All right, cool. I'll sip on this sip. Don Talk: No, So the first thing that comes to my mind with that is, yeah. The first thing that comes to my mind is the qualifications for that seat. Mr. Anderson: Like you say, new mind, brother. It's a wrinkle right now. You know what I mean? Oh yeah. Don Talk: At one point in time, was a, the society has felt that there was certain qualifications that you had to meet in order to take that seat. That, that's what has changed. There's no qualifications now. There's a popularity, it's a popularity contest. I don't know exactly what changed it. RC: Okay, what changed it? What changed it? What changed it? know you ain't finna take that cop out. Mr. Anderson: Yeah Don Talk: What? Give me a hint. I'm not going to... ⁓ RC: I'm gonna say it. I'm gonna say it with my chest. Everything changed when a brother took that seat for the first time. Don Talk: what? ⁓ okay, yeah, 100%. 100%. RC: And I want to be very clear to your viewing public. I don't care about race, creed, color because I'm a humanist. Right? I'm a humanist. I love you if you black, brown, red, yellow, white, green, beige. You know, I don't really care. I don't really care about your religion. I don't care if you're a Christian. I don't care if you Jewish, I don't care if you Muslim, don't care if you Zoroastrianism, I don't care if you follow the Enuma Elish, I don't care if you follow the Mehtunatuh or the Yixing or the Bhagavad Gita, I don't care. Because I wouldn't know what your religion is in the way that you treat people. Because your actions in the way that you treat people is going to tell me what your religion is. So having said all of that, Don Talk: That's to me, that's what it boils down to. RC: because I know somebody's waiting in the wings to discredit what I'm getting rid of to say. And so I got to preface all of that by saying, and Mike, you've been around me long enough. I show love to everybody. I don't care if you're three feet tall or 10 feet tall. However, we have to call what it is what it is. When the pinnacle has been reached by those who are not seen as the mainstream, the rules change. That has been the history of our country. It used to be that you needed a bachelor's degree. When those who are on the margins got a bachelor's degree, now you needed a master's. When those who are on the margins got a master's degree, now you needed a doctorate. Right? In order for you to be in a political space, had to have the best ideas. But then when people on the margins started having the best ideas, now you needed a pack. Mr. Anderson: So I'm hearing a lot of the qualifications keeps growing. RC: I know not growing brother in my opinion in my opinion. I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just saying in my opinion I Don't say I don't say growing no, I heard it growing All I'm saying is I'm not disagreeing with you, but I think language matters for me. It's not growing It's not growing is changing and any time those who are on the margins catch up to the rules the rules change Mr. Anderson: I'm talking about it's hard and how you're saying it. Like, you know, you can go from pastors and, huh? Absolutely, yeah. Don Talk: changing. RC: because the presidential rules used to say you had to speak eloquently. You had to be able to determine everybody's viewpoints. And if you don't accept them, at least understand them to refute them. And you had to be a person who was seen as a gentleman. And I use that word specifically for the simple fact that we've not had a woman president in this country's history that I know about. So you had to be a gentleman. which means that you had to show up in the space with the elegance of a gentleman while having the power of a warrior to occupy their space. Regardless if you had military service or not. But once that was achieved, now you now have the change that says you have to be brash, unabashed, offensive. and all of those things in order for you to command respect when it used to be that those things were not respectable. Don Talk: times have changed. RC: No, I don't think times have changed. I believe that people actually showing up as to what they were supposed to show up as when all of the curtains have been ripped off the windows. Don Talk: So Mr. Anderson: No, hey, hey, hey. RC: Come on, man, let's get in this thing, Mike. Don Talk: They're finally, no, no, no, like they're finally allowed to beat, so they finally got to a place where cold switching isn't necessary. They're just being their true authentic self and that's what's acceptable now. Mr. Anderson: Right, I was gonna say the exact same thing. I was say the same thing. RC: But war used to be one of those things that had rules. War had rules for everybody except for when we were the targets of the war. We are the same group of people, and I hope I don't get in trouble for this, but guess what, it's the truth, and we're look at it. We're the same group of people who sustained church bombings. Think about this, people rode transportation into our churches and killed people who looked like us. And the same folks who rode transportation into places and killed people who looked like us said, forget when somebody else from another country rode transportation into two buildings. So we really get down to what's the worth of a person. We function like everybody's equal as people, but I don't know about y'all and I could be wrong. I don't think the constitution has ever amended the other two-fifths of a human being when it comes down to those who are melanated. I don't think the Constitution has ever been changed for us not to be 3 5th human. Don Talk: It never has. I had never interpreted it as it changing. RC: Right? And so when it comes to that, we fight that we fight the way we speak. And it was rare. Fox that was like, if you want to know where melanin, the people were bad English, get it from me. Get it from non-melanin, the people who speak bad English. Don Talk: English language. Yeah. So here's the question. Is... RC: It's color switching, right? Don Talk: Does code switching ultimately affect who you believe? What is your sense of identity? RC: I'm pausing letting y'all go, because I feel like I've been talking a lot. Go ahead. Don Talk: Do we co? No, it's like, dude, you drop in knowledge, so you're a guest for a reason, because you got a lot of knowledge. RC: Okay, okay, so now that you said that then let me go and say what I'm gonna say to you Mr. Anderson: Oh hey, if I have something to say, I'ma say it. If I don't, I'm not. RC: I gotcha. ⁓ no, no, no, no. I know you will. We've been knowing each other for a little bit now, but I know if you got something that you're going to say, you're going to say it. So I know that I just like to make sure I'm not not hogging space. you know what I thought about this morning and I wasn't even thinking about you all this morning when I thought about this, it was the scene in roots. Don Talk: Yeah. Mr. Anderson: Okay. RC: where a lot of people concentrate on Kunta Kinte being beat while he's hanging up by his hands and the guy's trying to get him to say his name is Toby, we get caught up on that scene as though that was the point. And maybe it was the point, but for me it's a different point in this scene. After he says his name is Toby, I stopped paying attention to his character. And it came up this morning. You know whose character I started paying attention to? Lou Gottz Jr.'s character is Fittler. Because when they cut that rope and he falls, Fittler goes to do what? He goes to tend to him. And he says something that was the most powerful thing in the whole 12-hour movie set for me. He said... Don't pay that man no nevermind. You know who you be. Coonta is who you always be. To me that is the ultimate rendition of code switching to get past your pain. Because Coon2 was always Coon2. The biggest portion of code switching was to say what somebody wanted to hear to keep you from being dehumanized in front of everybody. while you know still who you are. Because if he didn't know still who he was, he never would have got his foot chopped off years later for running. And I think a lot of people missed that. That brother was always free in his mind, regardless of what he said out his mouth. and Chris Rock years later said in his comedies kit when he said the most racist person in the world is a black man who will sit there and be like, yeah, hey boss, oh yeah, we got you. And then as soon as that person leaves, I ain't worried about no cracker, you know what saying, he's saying this stuff on his bro because this is what you do in order to get by to minimize your pain. Don Talk: Yeah. RC: while understanding that I'm not like everybody else, neither do I wish to be. Don Talk: I would like to follow. RC: We just brothers vibing in here, man. Y'all told me I could talk my talk. Don Talk: Yeah, I know. You can talk. That's some good stuff right there, because I'm just sitting here taking notes. So here's... ⁓ You got something to run? ahead. Mr. Anderson: No, I'm just listening, know, I'm learning. Don Talk: you ever felt emotionally drained from constantly being something that you're not to prove to be something that you are? Does that make sense? RC: Okay, it makes sense, but I wanna be sure that I make sure that we are in the same space. What I was stating was not I'm acting in a way to enhance anything. A lot of times I'm acting in a way to maintain my mental sanity. Don Talk: you RC: in a way to decrease the pain that I would get otherwise. So it's not that I'm trying to aspire to anything because guess what? I step into a room whether I want to or not thinking that I belong anyway regardless of who believes I belong or not. I'm just trying to minima... Hmm? No, you're good. Well... Mr. Anderson: Right, right, right. Don Talk: But you grew in that space. You grew in that space. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. But you grew in that space. I feel like what we talked about earlier, or what was brought up earlier, you're 100 % right. Once you get into the space where you know you own it and you are supposed to be there, there's no reason to code switch anymore. RC: Mm-hmm. Well, yes and no. guess part of what you said is true because I resonate with that part. But there's also a part that once you've been relegated to spaces for so long that it has to be something to click that says, I don't need your approval anymore. I am who I am and what I am, whether you like it or not. Okay, quick little story, man. I wanna take y'all somewhere, right? So here I am as a faculty director for a national association symposium. And the question was asked in some way, so what music do you listen to? And I said, it depends. Don Talk: Take us there. RC: And I was being truthful. I was not expecting this reaction, but I was being super truthful. You know how you get too truthful sometimes, but it's still the truth. I said, it depends. My babies were a little bit younger. I think I had a five-year-old and a nine-year-old baby. And I said, when I'm dropping my babies off at school, it is Disney. It is Frozen. It is all of these. It's Coco. Mr. Anderson: ⁓ yeah. RC: because this is they want to hear but as soon as that door closes after that last baby is out the car dope is being sold in that ride Pimp C and Bum B and T I and every day slang in packets in this car there are real murders happening Don Talk: You same car. RC: in the same car between the time I drop my babies off and the time I pull up in this parking garage at my job. Why? Because my reality where I'm from and the nostalgia that I get from the music that I listen to is not the reality of my babies. My babies wouldn't know what end of a gun the bullets come out of. Mr. Anderson: you RC: while their daddy has been on the business end of a gun more times than I can actually speak without somebody firing. Right? My babies grew up in schools where somebody says, you get to go to the time out table They daddy grew up in the time was like, hey bro, I'm doing all they yelling and loud capping. So the teachers know we here, we're going to go handle this right here. We're going to get it in and we might be cool after the fact, but don't get loud. Cause getting loud means that you don't really want to do this. You just trying to get somebody to come save you. You know, Mr. Anderson: Right, right, right. you Don Talk: Yeah, heard you. I heard you. RC: It's a different mentality. And what does that mean? I'm not saying my kids are soft. I'm giving my kids the same thing y'all giving y'all kids. And it is a ticket not to have to go through the hardships. Now the trick part of it is how do we allow our kids not to go through the hardships while still allowing them to maintain the clause they need to deal with the world when we're not around. Mr. Anderson: I always tell dads, that's what work with. That's what Dad's Green Book is. It's a book that I wrote to help increase father engagement, right? So a lot of times, know, you dads, know, a lot of us we believe, especially we have some of us have that old school kind of mentality, which is still relevant, right? You know, we want our sons to be protectives and you we want them to make sure they know about safety. But now we want our daughters to know the same thing. You know what I mean? So one thing that they worry about is are they tough enough? They're going to make it. You know what I mean? Because now, you know, you know, we got this, you know, suburban life. them, right? You know, or we got, you know, even those out there who don't live in suburbia, right? I would let them know. If they got your DNA, when it needs to come out, it'll come out. RC: I identify to use the appropriate language as a cisgender male. Now having said that, I believe that love is love. I believe that who you choose to be with is who you choose to be with. I believe that your preference on sexual orientation is yours. I believe that it's more than a lifestyle. I believe it is who you are. I want to be very clear on this before I make this next point. And the reason why I'm doing this is because you said something when you were like our daughters, I'm paraphrasing, our daughters deserve to know the same things as our son because of like, you know, kind of where we are in the world. Right. My biggest struggle is this and this falls under code switching for me. My daughter is going to have to fend for herself in this new iteration of the world, and I encourage that. But how do I get my daughter to understand that in order for you to display yourself as being strong, that does not necessarily equate for you having to equate yourself to being masculine? Because there's strength in femininity. As a matter of fact, femininity is just as strong on the continuum as masculinity is, and both are needed. And I say the same thing for my son because guess what? My son, even though he's mixed, the mother Sri Lankan, I'm black, when you look at him, he's just like one of them quote unquote black dudes that got different hair. I need him to be as masculine as he knows how to be. while understanding that there's going to be portions of himself that still need to be feminine because everybody has femininity and or masculinity in them. But how do you do that without losing who you are? And for any brother that said, there ain't no femininity in me. Okay, cool. That's fine. Have a kid and let your baby fall on the sidewalk and see what you do. Look at you. Look at y'all. You know, the first thing y'all gonna do is y'all gonna break out running. Don Talk: Yeah, yeah, I know, yeah. Hmm? RC: to that child, pick that child up, check that child, I'll see what's broken, see what's skinned. You know what they call that? That is nurturing. And nurturing is what? It's synonymous with the feminine side and approach to things. Don Talk: Why is that? RC: because we human and we got both. We got an X and a Y chromosome. Don Talk: No, but like, but why does nurturing have to be considered feminist, feminine? RC: No, because think about it. Even in our existence, you go back far enough, that's just what it was. Right? You had, I don't care if it's a Zulu culture, I don't care if it's a caveman culture, when that saber too tight, could jump out them rocks. You'd be less than a man if you tell your old lady, you better go fight that thing. No, you gonna go and jump out there. When you gonna do that, why? Because it's the protective nature of things, unless all of these dudes done died. And the lioness is then gotta go and defend in order to make sure that what that you sustain yourself. Just like you may have a whole lot of brothers going out there in that particular iteration picking berries and this then the third bit of mature picking be very people about their fight something right? Don Talk: Mm-hmm. RC: And that is not to say that a man or a woman can't do something. No, that is not what it is. But that is just to me the nature of what it was before technology and all of these things that came about. And I'm willing to say this. A lot of what we experience today, and don't check me on this, go read and check this out. A lot of what we get today is this. The patriarchal culture came in to subjugate the feminine to the point that the feminine had to rebel and then try to claim strength in what looks masculine, which causes the is fit that we have, which is confusion in a lot of ways. So if a woman wanna be a warrior and do UFC by all means, baby, go do your thing. I'm not hating that at all. If a man wanna go out here and put on whatever he wanna put on, I'm not hating that at all. Do you? Because even the natives had what they called the two spirits. Look this up. Look at any Native American tribe in the North Americas. If somebody, they had the masculine masculine, the masculine feminine, the feminine masculine, and the feminine feminine. It was four quadrants. Right? So whoever you were, that was who you were and nobody was trying to outcast you for being who you were in that particular spaces. It is only when you introduce the patriarchal society that subjugates and sees feminine as weakness that we then start to get into what we see today in these categorizations and showing who deserves to belong and who does not. Don Talk: That brought it full circle to me because it's like it brings into everything. we... Is the code switching based on conolization Is the code switching based on cultural differences? Is the code switching based on what people deem as success ⁓ and professionalism? So here's the thing, like is... Is there a difference? Do we lose cultural, are we suppressed culturally by continuing to cold switch in an environment where we feel we need cold switch to be successful? Mr. Anderson: Ask that question again for me. Don Talk: If we are on a constant, I'm gonna rephrase it. If we're cold switching to be in a safe environment to succeed and be successful in that environment, is that cultural suppression? Mr. Anderson: Is that directed towards me or anybody? What are your thoughts on that, Mike? RC: I'm giving space. There you go, that's what I'm talking about. Come on, Mike. Don Talk: Yeah, 100%. Yeah, I 100 % think it's cultural suppression because as a black person from Inglewood, California, I have to suppress my upbringing in order to succeed in whatever, in the majority of environments that I'm trying to have an earnest living in. So I have to suppress. Mr. Anderson: to. Don Talk: who I was or who I was brought up as because who I was or who was brought up as, society doesn't deem that as acceptable. Mr. Anderson: So you're suppressing yourself in that example, right? You're suppressing yourself. That means you're holding yourself down. Don Talk: asked a question. RC: Go ahead brother Daron, I got thoughts but I'm being quiet and too... Mr. Anderson: ⁓ no, no, I mean, because, you know, because that that I mean, that was a good question one because we all do it right. You know, that's the question you can ask yourself. Are we suppressing ourselves? And to an extent, yes, but on the other end, I think there's a level of respect that we should have for our fellow man. Right. You know, there's certain things that will probably. Is it what we say or is it how we say it? Don Talk: Mm-hmm. Mr. Anderson: Like for real, right? I think there's a certain respect level that I would have, you know, I wouldn't consider it cold switching. What I consider cold switching is not necessarily what I'm saying, it's probably how I'm saying it. Don Talk: Yeah. RC: which Mr. Anderson: go on man. Alright, see? RC: Maybe no one is my turn. No, bro, I'm being dead serious. Let me know. Mr. Anderson: Well, what, what, what? I mean, I would say you bring a lot of insight to this. Here you go, RC: to my, y'all killing the game. I'm learning from y'all. really mean. No, I'm being dead up. I'm learning from y'all. I guess my take though is a little different. Right? I'm not saying better, I'm not saying worse, I'm not saying right, I'm not saying wrong, just a little different. In my experience, this is where through all of my pain and turmoil, because Mike will tell you bro, he's seen me go through the wringer. Right? Mr. Anderson: Okay. RC: in ways that would have broke a lot of people. So here's my approach to it. I don't see it as suppression. I see it that not everybody deserves to have the full me enter into a space. Don Talk: Wait, say that one more time. Repeat that. RC: Not everybody deserves the full me to come into a space. You have not earned the right to have the authentic me to come into a space. So, you know who deserves the right to have the full me coming to a space for me to give you whatever I have in order for you to be better if in fact you choose to? Y'all. My children, members of my true community, my homeboys of my day ones, my lady. Mr. Anderson: Right, right. RC: Me and my kids have a shirt, bruh, and I'm looking at the picture, and I might even bring it off the wall if y'all want me to and I can show you so you can see me and my babies in this picture. You know what the shirt says? The shirt says, I'm looking at it right here because it's on the wall. Dear ancestors, I understand the assignment. Mr. Anderson: What's that? RC: Not everybody deserves, in my opinion, I'm gonna say this in my opinion, through my experiences, not everybody deserves to have the full you. Right? Mr. Anderson: That's it. RC: Okay, so check this out. Let's make it real talk. It's real talk. So, Brother DaRon Brother DaRon, what's the best liquor you ever had in your life? I'm going through with this, promise you. I promise you I'm going through with this. What's the best liquor you ever had in your life? Mr. Anderson: Uh-oh. Don Talk: It was the best liquor. Mr. Anderson: Here's another example from me. Don Talk: Listen, listen, I'm gonna sit here. I'm gonna sit here and I'm... RC: No, but no it Mr. Anderson: I can't do the best liquor because I, you know, there's no, I can just, I'll just say Buller bourbon. I'll say that. RC: Okay, cool. Burber. That's cool. It ain't gotta be way up. ⁓ Trust me when I do this. I would never say ask anything that is gonna be detrimental. All right, so Bullet Burber for you. Mike, what about you? Don Talk: I'm gonna stick with my people and just no lie, Uncle Nearest RC: Okay, uncle nearest, gotcha. So for me, I like uncle nearest, but also the smoothest thing I've ever had is a Glenlivet 25 year, right? Then it's like, what up? Right, it's really, really smooth. So if you have an individual that the only thing they've experienced in their life is ENJ, And they say, hey man, but you got the drink. You can bring out your bullet, you can bring out your nears, I'm not gonna bring out my Glenlivet 25. No, you're not gonna do that. You're not gonna do that. Why? Because it's insulting to you to break out your high-priced stuff that you're gonna give them, and it's insulting for them because they don't even know what they're drinking in the first place. Don Talk: I know. RC: Sometimes you got to meet a person where they are and if where they are is not deserving of the full you Why would you bring your fool you out in the first place? They don't even know what they're experiencing And that is how I approach places now. And I don't care what kind of clothes you got on. I don't care if you got on Ferragamo shoes. I don't care if you got on Pro Kids. I don't care if you got on some Armani suit. I don't even know if they still wear them no more. I ain't heard of Armani no more. You meet people where they are because if you meet them above where they are, even if you are trying to give them everything that you believe they need, they will despise you anyway because they're not ready. I wish I had a praying church in here, man. mean, bro, what you listening to man is not me trying to drop no knowledge and no Jews. What you listening to man is, is pain of figuring this out the wrong ways. Don Talk: You said... RC: You understand what saying? For your viewing public, I'm gonna say this, I'm gonna shut up, promise until y'all tell me I can talk again, I promise. The best equation that I've ever seen in my life, right? And nobody gave me this, is that experiences plus pain plus time. equals wisdom. and I've gotten so much wisdom in my life that I've gotten tired. that I wish I never had taken the wrong pill because I was way more happy when I was ignorant. Mr. Anderson: So. RC: I was way more happy when I thought that just getting the good grades and getting the money and telling people what they wanted to hear and trying to fascinate people for me to get the bag, I was way happier then. Don Talk: I'm like. RC: rather than doing my 10 year self oppression study to understand where Neely Fuller got it mostly right. Neely Fuller had nine areas of oppression. I came up with a 10th because he was missing one. What are the nine areas of oppression? My hands ashy as hell. It's all good though. Neely had nine, education, economics, entertainment, law, labor, politics, sex, war, and religion. I accidentally came up with the tenth because without your health you can't be involved in any of the other ones. Mr. Anderson: That's a whole nother one right there. RC: Yeah. You go ahead. You go ahead and try to be on dialysis and blood pressure pills and, and diabetes medication when all of your power goes out. You've got probably about a good 48 to 96 hours to live unless the power comes back on for you to refrigerate what you need. So if you don't have health, you can't even touch the other nine. Don Talk: That's a whole other topic. RC: And if you can't touch the other nine, who gives a damn about cold switching? Cause you ain't even here to speak. Don Talk: Now, profound. There's a reason why you're here on this episode. For the knowledge that you're gonna bring, yeah. For the knowledge you brought to this, the knowledge you're gonna be able to share with everyone else, I truly appreciate your time in this. So I want us to leave right, wrong, or indifferent. I want us to have a comment to end it off. RC: I'll be quiet. And my thank you, brothers. Don Talk: cold switching, right? I see it as two different things. either, I took some notes, I'm sorry, we either cold switching to impress or elevate our character in the environment to where we deem we need to be successful in. Or we're so comfortable in our space and who we are that As Da'Ron said earlier, you're cold switching around me to get on my level. That's the two things that I got out of this conversation. Right, wrong, or indifferent. DaRon, what you got? Mr. Anderson: Yeah, definitely. Like I said, I was taking notes with my pink pencil. My pink pencil. All right, pink pencil. I got to tie this color is nice. Don Talk: with your pink pen. RC: I love it bro. And just so you know brother, just so you know, I need to know how to get that cap and that shirt. Once you told me what your green book version was, I needed that in my life, bro. Mr. Anderson: no doubt, no doubt, man. Daddysgreenbook.com. Right up there. But yeah, I got you. got you. ⁓ Cold switching. I'm a believer in living how you want to live, man. That's that. I mean, I hear it. I hear everybody out and listen to it. ⁓ everybody has every right to do what ⁓ feel that they need to do in their lives. RC: I need that, I need that. Mr. Anderson: Right? I'm the middle child, man. So whatever. You know what saying? Honestly, I want everybody to be happy, but I know everybody can be happy. So cold switching. For me... yeah, clinical final engagement specialist right there, man, right there. ⁓ For me, if I need to do it, if the time calls for it, I'm glad I got that superpower. You know what I'm saying? So, you know, I'll use it if I need to. But when I'm not using it... That's like a tool in my pocket that I can use if I need to. Just like being where I'm from, just like my education, just like being the clinician, just like everybody I work with. We're all tools that help each other to make this place a better place, right? Definitely to make it a better place. Thanks, Whitney Houston. Is that Whitney Houston? I can't forget, you know what I mean. Don Talk: Yeah. Mr. Anderson: But yeah. RC: I got you. Don Talk: All right, RC, what you got? RC: Whatever you have, it's enough. Don Talk: Mm. RC: Everybody who is in this space with us, everybody that will view this has already come equipped with everything they need for their journey. Whether you choose to do the work to unlock it or not is up to you. But the universe makes no mistakes. the universe was created by the Creator. bodies were created by the Creator. And the fact that you're viewing this means you're still alive, which means that you were perfectly made. Don Talk: Hmm. RC: So why do you code switch when the code is foolproof? Don Talk: I Mr. Anderson: Hmm, right. Don Talk: Mmm. RC: systems survive and they produce the outcomes that systems are designed to provide. So I will end by saying this. Which system will you follow? Is it the system of the creator that allows you to be fully who you are? Or is it the system of a man-made version of it? that relegates you to what the system actually needs to sustain itself. You choose. Don Talk: Listen, that was a powerful word by both of you all. I do not want to, I'm not trying to over speak you guys but I feel this deep in my heart. Most men do not know their enough. So we get caught up in this environment that we have to be something that we're not to be accepted. RC: Mmm. Don Talk: So I want to say this to all the men out there. I'm speaking to myself when I say this. You are enough. Live in that space, live in that peace, because you are blessed to be six feet above ground and not underground, and you are enough, and you are needed. That's it. All hearts and minds are clear. RC: Yes, sir. Don Talk: Peace y'all, y'all. Great episode. Until next time, Don Talk, we out.