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The Hidden Voice Holding Entrepreneurs Back: A Conversation with James Black · Better Together

• Shawn Sundsvold: Hey everyone and welcome back to Better Together, the podcast where we share the stories, the lessons, and the practical advice from founders and leaders to help you grow your business. I'm your host, Sean Sunsvold, and I'm joined as always by my partner in business and in life, Kelly Sunsvold. Today's guest is James Black. Now, before we get into today's interview and topic, let me tell you a little bit about him because James is the kind of person who he doesn't really seem to have an off-switch. he's the founder of GomeetUs.co. ⁓ The company behind the first legally available cannabis gummy in Columbia, South America. He's also the founder of James Black Consulting, where he helps business owners build systems and processes that allow them to stop being the bottleneck in their own business. On top of that, James has spent years consulting with sales teams and helping organizations improve decision making to help them create more effective sales processes. And lately he's turned his focus towards helping founders and entrepreneurs overcome one of the biggest obstacles to growth, imposter syndrome. Now if that all wasn't enough to make you tired, he's also the father of eight kids. Just want to let that sit there for a moment. Eight kids, that'll keep a life busy. So today we're talking about what imposter syndrome really is, how it shows up in our business and our lives, and most importantly, what we can do to finally stop letting it hold us back. So James, welcome to the show. Glad to have you here. James Black: Hey, thank you guys. I'm so happy to be here. Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah, I'm I'm really looking forward to this interview, like our initial conversation, there was a lot of, you know, fun and and everything like that. So let's just start with this. So for anyone who's listening and they've maybe heard the term ⁓ syndrome, but maybe not quite sure what it is. Why don't you tell us what it means and and define it for us? James Black: Yeah, the imposter syndrome is simply that voice inside that we listen to that eventually well, it starts off when we're young to protect us and it's there to help, you know, keep us safe from things. But what happens is eventually we give into that and it it kind of takes over and we don't realize that it hijacks our system, but it's that voice that keeps us small. It keeps you from doing things, taking risks. you know, but all of a sudden it goes into more than that. It starts telling you you're not good enough, you're not worthy enough. if they find out that you don't have the skills, you know, ⁓ entrepreneurs definitely, most all of us have it. And, you know, you go into just thinking, but I just don't know why why am I doing this? And and it's all of those things that keep you from making money, keep you from that life that you deserve. Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. Kelly: That's ⁓ that's a really good explanation. I mean, it's things I think all of us as entrepreneurs go through. And I remember that I had it when I was like in my leadership job ⁓ it was like it just amplified I went on my own as an entrepreneur that imposter syndrome really can take hold of your of your brain power. It's crazy. going back to cannabis culture, you've been around cannabis cultivation. the mid nineties. what originally drew you to that world does it typically show up in entrepreneurs, and business owners, that syndrome? James Black: You know, normally what I've seen in everybody that I talk to is it's so subtly that you don't even know that it's there. You know, it's it's been happening for so long to most of us that we think it's it's just our our subconscious or or sometimes the the right voice inside that keeps you in check. And it's because so many times in the past it it's that voice that keeps you from doing something that would hurt you. You know, and especially when we're young, if you've gone through anything growing up that was traumatic or and those types of things, that's what keeps us safe. But it starts to come out in the entrepreneur as soon as you start to step out on your own, you take that first step out. It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You don't know that world out there. What are doing? Stop, stop, stop. You can't go out there, it's not safe. So it's probably the same voice that kept us in the cave, you know, as cave. Caveman as we were evolving, but at now it keeps us in a proverbial cave and Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. Yeah, I think it it just it and it sneaks up too, right? It's not something where it's like you take that first step and it's like, Okay, I think I got this and the more that territory gets unfamiliar, right, that voice starts getting louder and louder and louder. James Black: Well, I say it the more that your confidence is building, the more that voice wants to scream. You know, like like what Kelly was saying in in that leadership position, that's where it's the loudest. Right when you're about to make the biggest moves, it's like, what are you doing? And so it keeps most people from doing that thing. But that's it. That uncomfortable thing, that that painful thing. On the other side of that is everything that you're looking for. You know? Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. Yeah, I I think, you know, and and you've had a long background doing a lot of different things and I'm sure, you know, whether it's, you know, in this you know, you started as in car sales, right? You've done consulting, you've done a startup, you've been an entrepreneur. You know, when did you start noticing that imposter syndrome in your own journey? James Black: ⁓ my God, when I was a kid. I we I came from ⁓ you know, a pretty rough background and I don't need to go into it. But part of that imposter syndrome gets you to identify with all of those bad negative things that happened to you. You know, so it tells you throughout your life, no, look, look at what you came from. Look at all this stuff, look at all this bad stuff that happened to you. You know, and so mine started very young. I didn't know that it was there. You know, I didn't know mine was there until ⁓ probably about four years ago, when my son Calvin one day we were arguing, and I used to talk to him like that imposter voice talks to me. And at this point, mine is brutal. I was, I don't know, ⁓ just so much like me that it was like I was talking to a younger version of me. But I was being just brutal to him. And so in that moment. Kelly: Mm-hmm. James Black: ⁓ I said something pretty nasty. I don't even remember what I said, but he said, Do you talk to yourself the way you talk to me? Kelly: ⁓ ⁓ James Black: And guys, I I couldn't say anything. And I said, well, finally, I was like, you know, no, I'm way worse to myself. And he looked me dead in the eyes and he goes, your life must effing suck. And he slammed the door in my face. And I wanted to, of course, go through the door and like Homer Simpson him, you know. And but it it stopped me like I've never been stopped in my life. And then for the next three weeks, I couldn't sleep. Kelly: Yeah. Wow. Wow. I mean, kids have a way. I mean, you know, like you start seeing yourself and things and you want better for them. And then when they say something just ⁓ ⁓ also ⁓ in an inappropriate way, but also like ⁓ wisdom beyond their years. It's just like, ⁓ my gosh. so So what are some signs of imposter syndrome? back. James Black: Yeah. This the signs were pretty evident. But you know what? I was blind to them. It was the way my family was and how they were hurting for my attention and how I would just push and push and push. At some point, mine wasn't, you're not good enough. It only got to the point where it was good not good enough when I needed to ask somebody for money. When I was building anything, if I'm If I was in that mode, I get in this flow and I'm just like, ⁓ and I'm loving life and I feel so great. But then what happens is you've got to turn those things that you create into revenue. And so then it was all of a sudden, well, I if I just build it a little bit more, ⁓ it's not done, it's not perfect yet. And ⁓ it's gotta be perfect before I send it. And all of these different things were very evident. I mean, it was just all over my life, but I just walked in, it was like I was. Shawn Sundsvold: Mm. James Black: What do you mean? I don't see anything. You know, that day that Calvin said that though, it was like somebody finally opened. Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. Yeah. Just you know, Kelly said it best, I think the the mirror that kids hold up sometimes to us as parents, right? It helps us see not only like what we've done to ourselves, And and in to change those things. Yeah. James Black: Yeah. Well hurt people hurt people. You know, and you don't ⁓ as a as a trauma ridden adult that's never dealt with your emotion, never dealt with those traumas, never gone through any kind of therapy or anything, that's what you're gonna do. And I had no idea that's what I was doing. I thought that because they they didn't have the life that I had, the physical abuse, the different certain things, I thought that their life was so much better than mine. But I was making their life the same just in a different way. Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. Yeah. So like I wanna dive into that a little bit because, you know, as we're as we're being parents and we're doing work and we're doing these things, that that voice that's constantly in our head, right? That and it's something you've mentioned before, that like imposter voice, right? What i and you've kind of talked about, you know, what it s sounds like a little bit, but in for you specifically, like what were some things that that voice just says to you constantly that you've had to like work through? James Black: Mine was that I would never well first that I would always be found out. That I wasn't who I said I was that all of my experience because I didn't go to school or because I didn't, you know, get a college education or I didn't do the same path as somebody else was wasn't wasn't credible, wasn't, you know, something that was worth anything. That was the biggest one for me. But then also that that I just wasn't worthy of the love of other people. And that came from moving around so much. You know, I was always the new kid when I was young. My I I think I went to like twenty-four or twenty-six different schools in twelve years. And so I was literally sometimes two and three times a year the new kid. Shawn Sundsvold: Wow. James Black: So I never got to settle into friends, I never got to settle into character, I never got to settle into myself. And so that just followed me and was just rancid in my life. Shawn Sundsvold: Mm. Kelly: Yeah, for sure. And kind of a follow up question to that, like what's the cost of listening to that voice for too long? James Black: ⁓ you guys. Had the Unbearable. Kelly: Yeah. James Black: That was a good question. Kelly: sorry. ⁓ didn't mean to ⁓ yeah, it's real. I mean, you you ⁓ to that internal voice. Yeah. And it just it just becomes such a powerful ⁓ You have to almost have a battle in your head. And that's hard. James Black: No, no no no. That's one hundred percent real. It's unbearable. Well, the the real cost is that I cost my family the life that they deserve. This whole time. But you can change it at any time. And that's the whole thing. The moment you make the decision, everything changes. But you have to choose it. And not not just say that you're gonna fucking do it. Excuse my language, but you have to really choose it. And when you do, starts to change. Shawn Sundsvold: Mm. Kelly: Yeah. Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. Kelly: Yeah. Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. Kelly: We have a saying that we've used in our family several several times and it's it's it we mostly use it around like relationships. but leadership and owning a business, a lot of it is relationships as well. So I think it applies here. But we we say it's not over till it's over, and when it's over, you're dead. Like you have an entire life up until the day you die to, know, block out that change that mindset on that imposter syndrome. James Black: That's right. Kelly: Fix that communication problem with your coworker, your your spouse, your child, like you have the power inside you to shift that mindset. But sometimes it takes external help, sometimes it takes medication, sometimes it takes conversations. You know, it's not easy. But it's not over till it's over. ⁓ James Black: The number one thing it takes though is is the choice. You have to choose it. But when you choose it, all of those other things start to become easier. You know? And and one of the things that I that I do is I send out a death warrant for the imposter syndrome now to everybody. I don't remember which book it ⁓ yeah, yeah. It was Robert Augustus Masters. He he talks when he talks about shadow work. ⁓ Kelly: Yeah. Shawn Sundsvold: Mm. James Black: That was a great series that he does. And he's a great doctor. But ⁓ he says to name it, name that critic. He calls it the inner critic, and I just took it further to the imposter. when you name it, what happens is you taking and now giving yourself a line of separation from it. And so I named mine Jimmy. When I was a kid, my grandfather always called me Jimmy. He's the only person that I ever did. And it was such a term of endearment, which is weird, because I I loved it that he would call me that. But that was the part of me that then kept me under that criticism, kept because he was the one that always was his expectations of me were very, very high as well. And you know, and I just felt like I could never live up to anything. And so that voice became that to me. So when I but the day I put that name down on the piece of paper. I felt this relief like I had never felt. And finally I could see that there was two parts of me. you know, that that whole story of the two wolves inside which one is gonna win and the one you feel the most. Well, that's true. You know, we have both parts inside of us. And you have and the imposter is not there as an enemy. That's what we all, you know, we don't realize. It's the part of us that was there to protect us. Kelly: Mm. Shawn Sundsvold: Hm. Mm-hmm. James Black: So it has this huge compassion for us. But that compassion just got misguided into what it's become. And so all of that though is where? It's in us. So how do we deal with it? And everybody goes to all of these outside sources, but it's not there, it's here. Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. Kelly: Mm. Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. Yeah, I think and that leads r really, really nicely to my next question of like, you know, we all and I think for most of us who have fought the imposter syndrome or are still working a g you know, to to fight it, right? The g we always think the goal is like, you know, just stand in front of a mirror and be more confident, right? Like what you know, that's how it c we just have to be a more confident person, right? That's just that's sort of the how it comes out. But you seem to go towards a different approach to this and and how to work through imposter syndrome. Tell us about that. James Black: Well, confidence is the end result of it. But you have to build evidence to silence the imposter. There's nothing you can say to it that's gonna shut it up. You have to build the evidence and you have to do it on a daily basis. You know, it was it it's all of those silly little things that people tell you and all the advice that they gave you about well, you gotta, you know, work out and exercise every day, and you gotta read a book every day, and you gotta Meditate. And I used to think what kind of hippie crap is all this, you know? And as long as I work harder than everybody else, I'm gonna make more money than them, is what I always thought. ⁓ but it it's it's those things, and that's why I I created the five daily non-negotiables. I didn't create them, you know. I'm in I'm in ⁓ the mentorship elite program with Dan Martell right now, and so he has five daily non-negotiables that he runs and but and these are similar to his. Kelly: Yeah. James Black: Just with a couple of differences. But you know, for me, what got me through this last five years, and I realized it was the first one is writing down your goals. You got to write down your goals and you review them three times a day. And three goals, that's all you need. But they have to be specific, they have to have a date. When do you want this specific thing by what day? Then you review those three times a day. The second one is you got to exercise for 45 minutes a day. You gotta sweat for 45 minutes a day. I don't care if you just go for a walk. I don't with your dog, I don't care what you do. You can lift weight. I hate lifting weights. I hate going to the gym. My thing is a kettlebell. I'm good with a kettlebell, and then I can walk every couple of days when I don't want to do the kettlebell. And so that's what I found for me. The next one is meditating just 10 minutes a day. If you just stop and meditate and go inward for 10 minutes a day, you know by the end of a year you've gone through 3,500 minutes of meditation. And that's a lot of self-healing that you've done just at 10 minutes a day. And then read 10 pages of nonfiction every day. And if you do that, you read 18 books a year. You know, and that's 18 books of of just things that are there to build you. And then the last one, and this to me is the most important thing, it's the one good decision. You have to write down and record one good decision you make every day and rate it in difficulty one through 10. Because what happens is is it's basic neuroscience. You guys, I I just took Joe Dispens's studies and all these other guys that are neuroscientists, and I'm like geeking out on it for a long time now. Yeah. And so the the one good decision app, you push it one time a day to make one good decision. Well, after 90 days of doing that, you've compounded 90 good decisions and you created new neural pathways in your brain that now your brain defaults to. Shawn Sundsvold: Love Joe Dispenza. James Black: And you're automatically looking for good and harder decisions to make in your life. And the only outcome that's possible from that is good. There's nothing negative that can ever happen if you do it. You know, and so that that was it. That I those five things, and so I made the app, the one good decision app now that goes along with it. And I'm on a mission to give this to a thousand people. Kelly: Yeah. Wow. That's really cool. So often like and even in this, like in your your your five, your five pieces, like honestly, ⁓ if you're listening to this, stop, write all these things down. you often about quality decision quality. ⁓ So making decisions every day and ⁓ for 90 days. What's the relationship between imposter syndrome and decision making? James Black: Well, just like I said, the the more good decisions you make and the more difficulty those decisions have, the more you're showing yourself, which is showing the imposter, like, hey, I've got this. I've got this. You're there to protect me. But look, I have a record now to show you of good decisions. I'm doing this, I'm fine. I don't need you there to protect me anymore. And then all of a sudden, Like I said, once you name it and you can separate it, now I can hear it. I can hear almost a different, it's like a different tone in my head, even though I don't hear a tone, it's not like I hear audible voices, but it's I can tell when Jimmy's there. I know that it's Jimmy now. I used to get really upset. I'm like, shut the F up, you know, go back to your cage. And because I really am that passionately angry imposter syndrome, but Kelly: Yeah. James Black: I've now learned to show it this loving kindness and say, listen, I don't need you anymore. And not that I don't need you like that. Thank you for being there. But I don't need your input. I've got this. I'm doing good. Look at all these decisions for how long I've been making this birth. You know, and that that's the direct correlation. Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. Yeah, I think, that's just such wisdom there and I you know, definitely take it for anybody who's listening, take it with you 'cause it's man, syndrome is real, right? So ⁓ now that is it is it something that, you know, we just one day get to kinda check off our list and say, It's gone or is it something that we have to sort of learn to actively manage and to s like kind of make it smaller every day? James Black: Yeah, you know, I actually I I I put it out there, you know, that I want to kill imposter some. And that's a mission that's one of those missions that's impossible. You can't kill it's like you'd have to kill yourself. And so it's how do we silence this? And it's always an ongoing war. And you know what I've seen though in like I said, I'm in Dan Martell's elite coaching and he's really a real person, which I really love that about him. And he shared with us a a thing where he was getting ready to release something and he even put it in check for a couple of months because he was like, ⁓ you know, I don't know, you know, I don't want to lose this part or whatever. And and I I realized I'm like, look, man, he's just open and honest about it. But and now at his level, he he knows how to deal with it and he his systems in place are are improved. So he's got that, but it shows up anyway. It doesn't matter what level you're at. And I think the higher level that you go, the more it can show up and the louder it can get, but we're better at to the point of silencing that voice. Kelly: Mm-hmm. So you mentioned the app. So kind of walk us through the app and how it helps people build confidence in action. James Black: Yeah, it's really everything I do, I I follow the mentality of KISS. KIS says keep it simple, stupid. ⁓ if I don't follow that, this is my own rule. For me, it's not for anybody else. So it's not calling anybody else stupid, but I know myself. So ⁓ it's just that you know, I wanted a tool. For me, I don't like journaling. I don't know what it is, but it's like leg day for me at the gym. You know, I'm like, I'm just not gonna go and do it. So I know that about myself. So I wanted to create something where because that recording that one good decision a day is so critical. And I was like, you know what? If I had an app in my pocket, I could do it. But I want to make it the most simple thing. I don't want it to give any advice. I don't want it to be a program. I don't want it anything. Literally, you go there, I made one good decision, you push the button, it gives you six categories of your life, whether it's work or relationships or integrity or whatever it is, those six, you push it. And then it gives you one through ten. How hard was it? You push that and you're done. And that's it. Then you have an insights tab. And so the free version gives you one good decision a day. If you get the pro version, it just unlocks you can push it as many times as you want. But I'm giving, like I said, the pro version to a thousand people because I want them to just have it. Because that's how much I know that this works. Because then with the insights, though, it just shows you your your tracking, you know how how many good decisions have you made in the last seven days, in the last thirty days. Kelly: Yeah. James Black: Are you trending up or are you trending down? Well, then it has an export part in the settings. Because everybody is using their AIs now. And so their AI knows them better than their therapist. So export this thing and put it into your AI and watch what it tells you about your decision quality, what you can do, how you can focus, what you can do to help that focus. Because these things know, because it's, I mean, it's learning from everything. So By taking that, I'm giving people their own therapy analysis that they can they could do with whatever they want, but it's the key to unlocking their own personal things. Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. Yeah, I think that's amazing. And what was sort of the the mentality behind good decision, right? 'Cause it's like you know, i you could easily make this be like, well, you know, your goal is five good decisions a day, or your goal is three good decisions a day. ⁓ was the thought process behind starting with one versus a higher number? James Black: The days that I was at Rock. Those are the days where One good decision feels important. this isn't for the people that have got their shit together and their lives are going great and they're you know they're rock stars. I mean I've I've talked to people that during this process that are like, I don't have an issue with that. I'm like, dude, go get down on your knees and thank God right now that you don't deal with this. You know, because I don't I I don't talk to anybody anymore that I'm they're like, dude, I totally deal with that. I totally deal with that, I totally deal with that. One out of three hundred people is like Kelly: Yeah. James Black: I don't even know what you're talking about. I'm like, wow, there are people out there. But you know, it's just Yeah, I I I don't even know where to go with it. It's just it's so big in my heart right now to to just get this out there because everybody is dealing with it, you know. Kelly: Yeah, I love I love that heart that you have and the sensitivity to that and just helping people who, you know, whether they're at rock bottom or whether they're just a little bit above rock bottom or they're just feeling just down, you know, like that one decision can be, ⁓ know, a mindset shift. so what kind of transp Transformation. Like your goal is to have a thousand people. You're giving this to a thousand people. So what kind of transformation have you seen already from people who have fully committed to that process? James Black: It it's crazy you guys. So in Colombia, ⁓ I was down there for two months. after that first conversation that we had. So I was down there, I built my team down there, and I I've been doing my own thing. You know, I've been working out every morning, I get up at 4 30, I read, I meditate, and I've just been doing it. I don't ask anybody, I haven't pushed it on anybody at that point. And so I got this whole team, we got this gorgeous house, it's got this infinity pool and and ⁓ jacuzzi, and so I'm out there doing my stuff, you know, every day and All of a sudden one day we have this guy, his name is Gordo, and that means you know, fatty in Spanish. And that's what they call him because he is a little chubby guy. But he's like the coolest dude. And I and you know, the night before he's like, What time do you work out? I was like, you know, probably about five thirty. And I didn't think anything of it, you know. And then all of a sudden I looked up one morning and he's there. I was like, Kamas, like, what's up? He's like, No, I'm gonna exercise with you. I was like, Right on, bro. And then after like another week, of the guys, there's three guys in the house and then three women, plus me. So there were seven of us total. By the second week, everybody was outside in the mud. Everybody was working out. Everybody was meditating. I went and got the books. I got Think and Grow Rich for Everybody. ⁓ got Breaking the Habit of Being Yourself by Joe Dispenza for everybody. And they're all reading and they're all talking about it. And I'm just like, what the hell? Shawn Sundsvold: Wow. James Black: And then all of a sudden, one of their wives came up and she was going through this thing. She had, I just posted this video. She was one night, she was on the phone, and I got up at like midnight and I came out, she's like on a meeting, you know, like and I was like, I thought she had a customer in Australia. Came out an hour and a half later, it's like 1 30 in the morning. I'm like, what are you doing? She's like, ⁓ it's my boss. And I, you guys, I about lost my everything in that moment. I was like, what have you talked to your boss? I'm like, that's abuse. And I was like, I was gonna lose it. So for the next week, I was just telling her, What are you doing? She's like, Well, you know, I want to be a coach, but I just don't feel ready and this and that. And I'm like, that's it. I've had it. I've had it with this shit. And so that was the moment. And so I told her, I was like, quit your job. she quit her job because I knew her husband had enough money. He's got he works with me. I know what he I know. It's all good. You're fine. And plus, they're so smart and they're so frugal. They're both accountants. You know they have it. And so I was like, it's not that. You're okay. So she quits her job. The next day, you guys, they get a call. ⁓ his old boss calls and is like, we need you back. And he's like, nope. But my wife has started something and she's gonna do it. And she got way more pay. Everything happened. But then she called and she's looking at me. She's like, James, thank you. Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. James Black: She's like, I've never for 20 years, I've never had the ability to overcome this and to do it. And you're the one that gave that to me. And I'm like, I didn't do it. I was just the one that said it. You did it. And so in that moment, I was like, that's it. You know, all of this that I do is that I'm I'm dedicating my life to this. Shawn Sundsvold: Wow. Man, what a cool story. You know, and and seeing and you know, I I love hearing about transformations like that. When people just like one day they're here, the next day they just make that decision and go forward and and they see their life can go. Right? Like that that light bulb moment is so amazing when you're work when you're coaching somebody or trying to help somebody and it's like they just see it. ⁓ And and it like it's it's exciting for both parties. James Black: ⁓ yeah. I think it's more so exciting for me, but Shawn Sundsvold: For sure, for sure. Well, as we start wrapping up here, you know, for somebody who's listening today and maybe imposter syndrome is running their life, right? It's it's they've s fought with it for years. the first thing they should do tomorrow if they want to change? James Black: No, the first thing they should do is not wait till tomorrow. The first thing they should do is do it right now, in this very second. Stop and think, how long has it been running my life? And as soon as you stop that, and as soon as you say, you know what, I'm done. I don't care what it is that I've got to do, I'm gonna get through this. You make that decision, and that is the moment of freedom. That is the moment it changes. But if you do it half-assed, if you do it half-heartedly, like you make a A New Year's resolution, get out of here. Those are not the people I want to talk to. But there's so many people that are ready. And then you see the five daily non-negotiables. That's the system. When people say, What's the system, James? I'm like, that's it. And they're like, it's too simple. I'm like, you guys, simple doesn't mean easy. I'm like, yes, it's simple. Do it for 90 days. Consistency is not perfection. Practice makes progress. It doesn't perfect anything. But you're gonna have days you travel, you're gonna have days you're sick, you're gonna have days you got IBS, whatever it is. Do as many of those five daily non-negotiables as you can every single day. And in 90 days, you cannot be the same person. It's physically impossible. Shawn Sundsvold: Yeah. Yeah, it just it just that it it's habit building, right? You know, like if you wanna change your life you've gotta start changing the underlying habits that have created the life where you're at right now. Right? You've gotta change it going forward if you wanna be a different person. James Black: I'd say create the evidence. We're creating evidence for ourselves to shut that imposter syndrome up, because that's the only way you can do it. You gotta serve it evidence like it's a courtroom. Lawyers are good at talking. You think your imposter syndrome is not a lawyer, it's the best one you ever heard. So the only way you can silence it is you gotta serve it daily evidence. Kelly: Yeah, yeah. Well, thank you so much, James, for sharing this insight. Like I know for me personally, like I am not one of the people that have all their shit together and imposter syndrome is very much evident. but it's something I'm learning to push and I definitely ⁓ will checking out your app. So ⁓ on let's have how do people get in contact with you? How do people get to be one of those thousand people on the app? James Black: Yep, it's super simple. I set it up. Just go to James Black Consulting.com. Just click either get the app or click ⁓ go to the newsletter. As soon as you put your email address into the newsletter, it'll send you a welcome email. It's got the five daily non-negotiables, the five laws, and the death the death warrant. You have to sign the death warrant. Print it off, put the name on it and sign it. And as soon as you do, watch the relief you feel. But once you do that, then the app Kelly: Mm. Yeah. James Black: I'll send you a a second email as soon as you sign up for the newsletter. The second email will come out because I check it every day and I send anybody that signs up for that newsletter, the app for free for 90 days, and it starts your 90 day challenge. Kelly: That's awesome. That's awesome. Well, thank you so much, James. And we're we're definitely I know we hit it off you know, in our conversations the and I would love to meet your wife too. So ⁓ thank so much for your time ⁓ and look to ⁓ more conversations with you. James Black: Very soon. You guys too, thank you so much.