Latest / Beyond The Horizon / Murder In Moscow: The Goncalves Family And Their Interview with 48 Hours

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Murder In Moscow: The Goncalves Family And Their Interview with 48 Hours · Beyond The Horizon

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  Speaker 1: Everyone and welcome back to the program. On Friday night
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  Speaker 1: there's going to be a special on the Moscow murders
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  Speaker 1: on CBS and Paramount and it's a 48 hours special.
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  Speaker 1: Well during that 48 hours special and in that special
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  Speaker 1: they talk with some of the family members of the victims.
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  Speaker 1: So today we have an article from CBS and talking
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  Speaker 1: about that special and giving us a little bit of
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  Speaker 1: a sneak peek into the comments made by the parents
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  Speaker 1: of Kaylee Gonsalves. So, let's dive into this article from
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  Speaker 1: CBS and let's see what they have for us. Headline,
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  Speaker 1: Father of Kaylee Gonsalves, one of four murdered University of
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  Speaker 1: Idaho students, say there is evidence his daughter fought back. And,
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  Speaker 1: you know, we haven't really delved too deep into the
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  Speaker 1: what ifs here because I don't know. It's easy to just,
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  Speaker 1: you know, speculate about what might have happened and anybody
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  Speaker 1: can say anything. But unless we have some facts to
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  Speaker 1: back that up, I don't delve too deep into those waters. Now,
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  Speaker 1: if Kaylee Gonzalez's father is telling us that, my guess
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  Speaker 1: is that he might know a little bit more than
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  Speaker 1: we do, considering he's had access to the autopsy results,
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  Speaker 1: he's had access to the case from a way different
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  Speaker 1: perspective than any of us. So, if Kaylee Gonzalez's father
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  Speaker 1: is saying that there's evidence that Kaylee fought back, I'm
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  Speaker 1: inclined to believe him. And I think that Steve Gonsalves
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  Speaker 1: and the family members of Kaylee Gonsalves have been nothing
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  Speaker 1: but straight shooting this whole entire time. And all they've
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  Speaker 1: demanded was accountability from everybody involved in the process. And
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  Speaker 1: I don't think anybody out there would be demanding any less.
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  Speaker 1: This article was authored by Ruth Chenetz. The November 13th,
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  Speaker 1: 2022 murders of Kaylee Gonsalves, Madison Mogan, Zanna Kernodle, and
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  Speaker 1: Ethan Chapin, students at the University of Idaho, left the
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  Speaker 1: nation stunned and the families of the victims searching for answers.
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  Speaker 1: Brian Kohlberger, charged in the case, faces four counts of
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  Speaker 1: first-degree murder and one count of burglary. A judge has
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  Speaker 1: entered a not guilty plea on his behalf. As attention
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  Speaker 1: turns to Kohlberger's trial, the murders remain unexplainable with questions lingering.
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  Speaker 1: I don't know why it happened. Jasmine Kernodle, sister of
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  Speaker 1: Zanna Kernodle, told 48 Hours correspondent Peter Van Sant in
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  Speaker 1: her first interview, I wish we knew. They were, all
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  Speaker 1: four of them were, just such great people and made
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  Speaker 1: such an impact on the lives around them. And it's
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  Speaker 1: crazy to think that there is no rhyme or reason
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  Speaker 1: when something like this happens. And I've speculated before, for
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  Speaker 1: all it's worth, that Brian Kohlberger only meant to kill
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  Speaker 1: Madison Mogan. And when he found Kaylee Gonsalves in the
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  Speaker 1: bed with Madison Mogan, it threw his whole entire plan
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  Speaker 1: into chaos. And once that occurred, it led to the
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  Speaker 1: chain of events that saw four people get murdered. But
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  Speaker 1: I truly believe that he intended on only killing Madison
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  Speaker 1: Mogan that night. For what reason? Your guess is as
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  Speaker 1: good as mine. Jasmine and her father, Jeffrey Kernodle, spoke
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  Speaker 1: with Van Zant in The Night of the Idaho Murders,
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  Speaker 1: airing Saturday, September 16th at 10 p.m. on CBS and
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  Speaker 1: streaming on Paramount +. Van Zant asked Jeffrey Kernodle about
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  Speaker 1: reports that his daughter, Zanna, fought back against the attacker.
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  Speaker 1: I believe so, Kernodle replied. It's upsetting to think about.
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  Speaker 1: I can't even begin to try and put myself in
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  Speaker 1: his place. Imagine if your daughter was brutally murdered like
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  Speaker 1: this and you were only getting a little bit of
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  Speaker 1: the details piecemealed here and there. And now you know
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  Speaker 1: that you have this trial that's been delayed. So you're
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  Speaker 1: going to have to stew on all of these thoughts
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  Speaker 1: that you have, all of these horrible visions that you're
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  Speaker 1: coming up with. And we all know how the mind
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  Speaker 1: can really run wild, especially if you're suffering from PTSD.
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  Speaker 1: And there's nobody out there that's going to tell me
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  Speaker 1: that losing your child like this, hell, losing your child
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  Speaker 1: at all, can't trigger some form of PTSD. Because it
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  Speaker 1: certainly does. And if not full-blown PTSD, certainly a whole
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  Speaker 1: lot of sleepless nights. We're not going to just sit
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  Speaker 1: back and cross our fingers and pray we're going to
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  Speaker 1: get justice, Steve Gonsalves said. That desire for justice led
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  Speaker 1: to the Gonsalves family to undertake their own investigation in
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  Speaker 1: addition to speaking with authorities, before a gag order was
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  Speaker 1: put in place. And we all know that the gag
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  Speaker 1: order was dropped in place because they're trying to avoid
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  Speaker 1: any nonsense later on down the road. But I've said
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  Speaker 1: from the beginning that I think calling the Gonsalves family
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  Speaker 1: witnesses here is nothing more than punitive. They don't want
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  Speaker 1: them to talk, so let's say we're going to make
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  Speaker 1: them witnesses. Now, maybe that's just my cynical nature taking over.
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  Speaker 1: But let's remember, there has been a lot of animosity
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  Speaker 1: on both sides here since the very beginning. The Gonsalves
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  Speaker 1: family has held the police department and the prosecutors accountable
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  Speaker 1: throughout the whole process. And when you look at it
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  Speaker 1: through that lens, it's not out of the realm of
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  Speaker 1: possibility that they're being considered quote-unquote witnesses as sort of
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  Speaker 1: a punitive punishment. Steve Gonsalves says, according to the coroner,
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  Speaker 1: the first victim was Mogan. Both Mogan and Gonsalves were
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  Speaker 1: sleeping in the same bed in a room on the
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  Speaker 1: third floor of the house. After killing Mogan, the assailant
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  Speaker 1: then went on to kill Kaylee, Steve Gonsalves said. There's
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  Speaker 1: evidence to show that she awakened and tried to get
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  Speaker 1: out of that situation, says Gonsalves. She was assaulted and stabbed. Now,
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  Speaker 1: I don't want to look too far into what he
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  Speaker 1: means by assaulted, but... Previously, we had just heard that
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  Speaker 1: they were murdered. Now, he could just mean assaulted as
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  Speaker 1: in attacked, and that's probably what he means. But look,
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  Speaker 1: we don't know all of the details yet. Remember, we
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  Speaker 1: only have what was in the affidavit. Besides that, there
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  Speaker 1: hasn't been very much coming from any official sources. And
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  Speaker 1: this information we do have came from the coroner in
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  Speaker 1: the very beginning stages of all of this. Christy Gonsalves
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  Speaker 1: explains her daughter had several fatal wounds and that the
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  Speaker 1: way the bedroom was set up made it difficult to escape.
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  Speaker 1: The bed was up against the wall. The headboard was
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  Speaker 1: touching the wall and the left side of the bed
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  Speaker 1: was touching the wall. And we believe that Maddie was
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  Speaker 1: on the outside and Kaylee was on the inside. She
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  Speaker 1: says the way the bed was set up, she was trapped.
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  Speaker 1: Christy Gonsalves believes the assailant was not expecting to find
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  Speaker 1: two best friends together in the same bed. I do
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  Speaker 1: think that his plan went awry. I do think that,
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  Speaker 1: you know, he intended to kill one and ended up
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  Speaker 1: killing four. And that's what I've thought from the very jump.
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  Speaker 1: Once we started getting some more details and we started,
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  Speaker 1: you know, looking at what went down, And we found
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  Speaker 1: out especially that Kaylee wasn't even living there anymore. It
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  Speaker 1: seemed to me that Brian Kohlberger messed up with his
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  Speaker 1: surveillance and, well, led to him breaking into this house
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  Speaker 1: when Kaylee was staying the night. And that led to
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  Speaker 1: his whole entire plan being foiled and him going to
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  Speaker 1: these extreme measures because he panicked. And unfortunately, on the
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  Speaker 1: way out, XANA was still awake. He runs into XANA,
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  Speaker 1: does what he does. Ethan wakes up. He kills Ethan.
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  Speaker 1: And then by that time, he has lost all that adrenaline,
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  Speaker 1: you know, all that strength from murdering four people with
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  Speaker 1: a knife. That can't be easy. So he's making his escape.
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  Speaker 1: And on his way out, he sees the surviving roommate.
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  Speaker 1: But at that point, he's completely gassed and he's just
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  Speaker 1: trying to get out of Dodge. That always seemed like
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  Speaker 1: the most likely scenario to me. Now, do I know
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  Speaker 1: that that's what went down? Absolutely not. And like usual,
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  Speaker 1: I won't sit here and tell you that I know
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  Speaker 1: stuff that I don't know. Until we find out from
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  Speaker 1: official sources, we just don't know. But of all the
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  Speaker 1: scenarios that could be likely, that one seems to be
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  Speaker 1: the most possible. Steve and Christy Gonsalves say investigators' information...
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  Speaker 1: also led them to believe that Brian Kohlberger may have
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  Speaker 1: made scouting trips to the students' house where the murders occurred.
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  Speaker 1: He had to know when people were coming, people going,
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  Speaker 1: says Steve Gonsalves, and we know that the data from
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  Speaker 1: the cell phone towers tell us that he was doing
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  Speaker 1: that months in advance. Now, of course, that information is
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  Speaker 1: certainly circumstantial, and it'll have to be backed up by
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  Speaker 1: other evidence that ties it all together. Christy Gonsalves wonders
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  Speaker 1: if Kohlberger... had ever gone inside the home saying, I
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  Speaker 1: think he had at least opened that door, went in,
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  Speaker 1: tested the waters, looked around. The Gonsalveses also think they
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  Speaker 1: might have found a possible connection through Instagram between Brian Kohlberger,
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  Speaker 1: their daughter, and Maddie Mogan. Not for nothing, but I
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  Speaker 1: told you folks that how long ago? Again, and it's
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  Speaker 1: not because I'm, you know, Inspector Gadget over here. It's
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  Speaker 1: just eliminating all the things that aren't likely. And the
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  Speaker 1: most likely thing that happened was Brian Kohlberger ran into
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  Speaker 1: Maddie Mogan while she was working at the Mad Greek.
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  Speaker 1: And from there, he got a fixation. That fixation turned
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  Speaker 1: into him following them on Instagram. And then from there,
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  Speaker 1: we see what happened. And when you look at all
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  Speaker 1: of the clues that we've seen, especially how quickly the
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  Speaker 1: owner of the Mad Greek came out and what saying that, no,
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  Speaker 1: this didn't happen. He's never been to my restaurant, yada, yada, yada.
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  Speaker 1: that automatically sent off all kinds of alarm bells with me.
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  Speaker 1: So as far as evidence that you can see on paper,
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  Speaker 1: I think that him following them on Instagram is very,
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  Speaker 1: very likely, considering all the previous evidence we had, and
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  Speaker 1: now hearing from Kaylee Gonsalves' parents about their own investigation,
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  Speaker 1: you don't have to be Einstein to figure out this equation.
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  Speaker 1: Turned by the NCUA. They believe they found Kohlberger's Instagram
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  Speaker 1: account and he had been following Kaylee and Maddie's Instagrams.
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  Speaker 1: From our investigation of the account, it appeared to be
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  Speaker 1: the real Brian Kohlberger account, says Christy Gonsalves. However, Brian
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  Speaker 1: Kohlberger's defense team has stated in court filings that there
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  Speaker 1: is no connection between Mr. Kohlberger and the victims. Investigative
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  Speaker 1: reporter Howard Bloom, who has written extensively about the case
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  Speaker 1: for Airmail, a digital newsletter, explains in an interview with
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  Speaker 1: 48 Hours, the prosecution would like everyone to believe that
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  Speaker 1: it's an open and shut case. But I think the
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  Speaker 1: facts they have make the case perhaps more open than
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  Speaker 1: open and shut. I wonder what he's looking at. Mr.
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  Speaker 1: Bloom over here, or is he just trying to sell
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  Speaker 1: more advertisers on the clicks he's going to get by
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  Speaker 1: trying to serve up a bunch of bull junk? Bloom
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  Speaker 1: also says if no connection between Koberger and the victims
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  Speaker 1: can be established, then there is no motive. And if
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  Speaker 1: there's no motive, then it becomes very hard to make
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  Speaker 1: the case that he is the killer. Um, besides the
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  Speaker 1: fact that his DNA is on the knife sheath next
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  Speaker 1: to a dead body. You know, all of these people
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  Speaker 1: with all of these grand comments crack me up. They
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  Speaker 1: act like we've never been through this before. Like this
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  Speaker 1: is our first rodeo and everybody's stupid and we all
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  Speaker 1: need Howard Bloom to hold our hand. And not for nothing.
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  Speaker 1: If it's established that he was at, if it's established
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  Speaker 1: he was following them on Instagram, there's your motive right there.
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  Speaker 1: And if he was, we're all going to know about
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  Speaker 1: it come trial time. Remember all of those warrants we've
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  Speaker 1: been going through? All of those court documents? Well, that's why.
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  Speaker 1: With the gag order in place, information is restricted, but
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  Speaker 1: the filings do provide some insight into the defense's case,
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  Speaker 1: says CBS News consultant Brianna Fox, a professor of criminology
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  Speaker 1: at the University of South Florida and a former FBI
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  Speaker 1: special agent. I don't think there's any slam dunk, Fox
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  Speaker 1: tells 48 Hours. It seems that the defense is alleging
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  Speaker 1: there was a rush to judgment, law enforcement made an
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  Speaker 1: arrest too fast, and they focused on their client too quickly. Again,
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  Speaker 1: I am more than willing to listen to all of that.
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  Speaker 1: Can somebody please explain to me how the DNA got
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  Speaker 1: on the knife sheath next to the dead body of
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  Speaker 1: Madison Mogan and Kaylee Gonsalves? Because until you can explain that,
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  Speaker 1: the rest of your nonsense... is exactly that. Nonsense. And
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: I feel like I'm getting deja vu here. Remember when
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: Alec Murdaugh was about to be tried? All of the
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  Speaker 1: contrarians out there telling us how innocent he was? How
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: the case wasn't strong? It's all circumstantial? Same thing with
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: Lori Vallow, right? Well, how'd that work out? And the
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  Speaker 1: evidence here for Brian Kohlberger and his guilt is way stronger,
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  Speaker 1: in my opinion, than what we saw down in South
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  Speaker 1: Carolina against Alex Murdaugh. We have actual DNA evidence here.
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  Speaker 1: DNA evidence, putting Brian Koberger at the scene of the
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  Speaker 1: crime with no alibi, and then all of that circumstantial
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  Speaker 1: evidence to provide the foundation that the rest of it's
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  Speaker 1: built upon. And then you add to that the fact
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  Speaker 1: that the defense is so focused on what's going on
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  Speaker 1: with the process and not focused on, you know, evidence.
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  Speaker 1: It tells me everything that I need to know. The
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: defense filings have tried to poke holes in some of
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: the information alleged in the affidavit released after Kohlberger's arrest,
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  Speaker 1: such as cell phone data that picked up Kohlberger's movements
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  Speaker 1: near the victim's house and security cameras that captured his
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: Hyundai Elantra near the murder scene. The defense has pointed
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: to concerns, says Fox, whether Brian Koberger's car was accurately
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: identified at the outset or if that identification was affected
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: after authorities learned the model of the car he drove.
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  Speaker 1: While the alleged cell phone data makes one suspicious of Koberger,
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: says Bloom, it's not putting someone at someone's doorstep. It's
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: putting someone in someone's neighborhood. No, but the knife sheath
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: with the DNA on it, that puts them not only
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: in the neighborhood, not only in front of the house,
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: but inside of the bedroom where two girls were killed
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  Speaker 1: and then another two people were killed a few minutes later.
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  Speaker 1: So you mean to tell me that you're going to
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  Speaker 1: sit in front of a jury and try and argue
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: this case? as it is, and try and get a
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  Speaker 1: hung jury from this, good luck doing that, and if
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: I was Brian Kohlberger, and that was the strategy, I'd
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: be getting myself geared up for the next life, because
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: that journey is not far away. There's a large difference
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  Speaker 1: of being in the neighborhood and being in someone's house.
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  Speaker 1: And if you can convince a jury of this, if
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: you can raise doubts about validity and the accuracy of
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: the cell phone data, I think you're halfway there to
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: getting the case against Kohlberger either a hung jury or
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: a not guilty verdict. Good luck getting a jury to
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: believe any of that. I don't know one single person
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: in their right mind. that would be like, oh, you
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: know what? This sounds like it's very logical. All the
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: other evidence, including, you know, the DNA, let's throw that out.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: And I have a funny feeling, going through all of
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: the warrants that we've went through, that they think that
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: Brian Koberger's cell phone connected to a Wi-Fi in the area,
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: perhaps a Wi-Fi in that house. So if that's the case,
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: talk about slam dunk. That is the kind of evidence
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: that prosecutors drool over. Christy Gonsalves says regardless of the
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: defense claims, she remains steadfast in her belief that Brian
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: Koberger is responsible for the murders, and that whenever the
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: trial begins, her family will be there. He's going to
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: feel all of us just staring at the back of
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  Speaker 1: his head, says Christy Gonsalves, and he knows what he
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  Speaker 1: did to our daughter. All right, folks. Well, a very,
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: very interesting article from CBS about Christy Gonsalves, Steve Gonsalves,
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: and a few other details about where things currently stand.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: All right, folks, that's going to do it for me.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: But if you'd like to contact me, you can do
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: that at bobbycapucci at protonmail.com. That's B-O-B-B-Y-C-A-P-U-C-C-I at protonmail.com. All
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: of the information that goes with this episode can be found...
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: In the description box. We all know a guy.