Latest / CINEMACTIVIST / S03E19 - Meet Tony Grey
Transcript
- John C. Lyons: Hi, everybody, and welcome to Cinema Activist. I'm your host, John Lyons, and I have a special, super awesome, cool guest today. Tony Grey musician, composer, educator. Am I forgetting anything, Tony? A father. How's it going, man? Good. Thanks. Tony Grey: Good, how are you? Thanks for having me on here. John C. Lyons: Yeah, man. Thanks so much. Little fun fact. The music for this podcast is made by Tony Grey Tony Grey: Awesome. Hope you like it. John C. Lyons: And all of the music in every tethered production is made by Tony Grey Tony Grey: Yeah. Got some great hairs doing it. John C. Lyons: Me too. Me too. We're in a race. We're in a race. Who can go all white first, Tony? Who do you think? Tony Grey: Mm. No, you're looking pretty on point, man. John C. Lyons: so Tony, it's awesome to talk to you. You've been really traveling quite a bit and having a lot of really cool gigs. so thanks for fitting this into your busy schedule. Tony Grey: Course, my pleasure. John C. Lyons: Yeah, man. So let's let's take a little trip down memory lane. You are from the United Kingdom, correct? Tony Grey: Yes, I'm from Newcastle, England, which is the northeast, pretty much on the border of Scotland. It's where all the Harry Potter castles are. John C. Lyons: Really? So you saw castles like every day growing up as a child? Tony Grey: Yeah, the actual the Hogwarts Castle is kind of my round my neighborhood area, not far from, you know, where my mom lives. John C. Lyons: No shit. When's the last time you got back home? Tony Grey: Well, I was home last week, but I was in London. so I didn't get a chance to go up north. but a good friend of mine came down to see me, so that was cool. So I was a bit of bit of home away from home. John C. Lyons: Yeah, that's nice. You got to catch up with with some of some of home in a way, then Tony Grey: Yeah. John C. Lyons: that's cool. when did you start getting interested in music and was the bass your first instrument? Like where where did you start? What got you hooked? Tony Grey: Well, my mom and want wanted me to do piano lessons when I was very young. So me and my sister, probably like about four or five years old, and went to study piano and I had to do it every Saturday and practice all week. And I really did not like being told that I had to do that. And especially like as I was getting older towards the teenage years, I just wanted to play out to my friends and it was always like a Saturday morning. So it was always kind of like a dreaded It became a dreaded thing, you know. And my teacher John C. Lyons: Uh-huh. Tony Grey: was a little bit out there. He wasn't like the nicest. Well, he was nice, but he was kind of very strict. He was a very serious guy. So if I'd made mistakes or I wasn't prepared that you would like kinda let me know. So that was where I started. And my mom kind of as far as I remember, I need to ask her maybe, but when she said I John C. Lyons: That is so young. That is so young. Tony Grey: Yeah, very young. But when I was like thirteen, she said, When you become a thirteen year old teenager, you can make the choice whether you want to continue doing it or not. So it's John C. Lyons: Mm-hmm. Tony Grey: thirteenth birthday, the first Saturday, no way I'm doing it. So John C. Lyons: Wow. Tony Grey: I stopped. And my sister carried on for a bit. She plays violin and viola and all that stuff. so she carried on playing music. I just quit completely. And then I got into guitar. around fifteen but again, you know, just dabbled, didn't take it seriously. But I was really interested in music and I was a DJ. I did a lot of drum and bass music and loved spinning the decks in my room and had like loads of white label records and I would just spin like electronic and John C. Lyons: man. Tony Grey: music. So all the k kids from school would pile around. And John C. Lyons: So where d wait, where did you play where did you DJ at? Like was it parties? Was it like did you have like DJ gigs or? Tony Grey: Yeah, parties, couple of DJ gigs, couple of nightclubs when I was really young, like John C. Lyons: Damn. Tony Grey: just like slipping into that scene and I was really, really into it, man. I would go to raves, like all night raves and stuff, and yeah, very like f sixteen maybe years old. Just totally in that world. It's not a good scene for a young guy, so it was a long story short, I got a bit paranoid. Because I was losing a lot of weight. I was kind of dabbling in things I shouldn't be dabbling with and it was kind of not a good lifestyle. I remember one friend s referred to to me as the skinny guy. And I got I got really offended by that. Not like to the point where we I confronted him, but just inside I was like really hurt by the not that he was saying you're a skinny guy, but just the way he said it, you know what I mean? Like John C. Lyons: Mm. He had a label. He had a label and it wasn't necessarily the label. Yeah. Tony Grey: Yeah, it's like going out to that skinny guy over there kind of thing. And I overheard it and it really hurt my feelings. So I decided to sell my turntables and I bought a weight bench. John C. Lyons: Okay. Wow. Tony Grey: Yeah, so my f my friend's dad called me up and said, Hey, I heard you wanted to sell your turntables, my son, I'll buy them for my son, how much? So we negotiated a price and he came and bought them and I bought a weight bench, you know, and some weights John C. Lyons: Yeah. Tony Grey: and I just stayed at home and got obsessed with weightlifting and got a job at John C. Lyons: How old were you then when you sold your turn tables and went to weights? Okay. Tony Grey: Like probably seventeen, probably seventeen. Yeah, before eighteen. And so I got rid of my turntables, got the weight bench, trained for like months, got a job at a Chinese restaurant washing dishes and they fed me the Chinese food. So I was like I was into it, man. So I was just eating the food. He said, Who take out somebody take out the trash? I'd take it out 'cause it was heavy. Then when John C. Lyons: Yeah. Tony Grey: I went outside I would do pull ups on the thing. I was obstac John C. Lyons: I cannot see this. I can't picture this version of you. Wow. Tony Grey: I was obsessed and then I would run on the beach, run for miles, and then I joined the army, you know, I was like, okay, that's what I'm gonna do. So I joined the army, did my b basic training, signed a declaration to the queen and all of that. and then to celebrate, I jumped on the train to see a friend, and the friend picked me up at the train station and crashed the car and I broke my back John C. Lyons: Wow. Tony Grey: and I got medically discharged from the army like immediately. And then my stepdad when I got home he brought me a bass home and said, Hey, learn how to play this, it'll stop you from feeling sorry for yourself. So he John C. Lyons: Uh-huh. Tony Grey: gave me the bass. I didn't ask for it. And and I was actually irritated at the time because I was like, I don't need you to tell me what's gonna make me feel better and I had this bass, you know, and then John C. Lyons: Yeah. Tony Grey: I I I just obsessively 'cause I get obsessed with things. so I I just start practicing like hours a day, twelve hours a day, and I just got s yeah, for a long time. John C. Lyons: You were like bedridden, basically, right? I remember you telling me about this. Yeah. How how long were you like down in recovery, basically? Tony Grey: about a year at least. Like I had big body jacket on, like a American footballer. So once I had that on, once I was like out of the hospital and like learned how to function properly, you know, I was kind of just sitting around at home with his jacket on. And so I would just pr play and practice the bass. And then my dad suggested that I send him a tape of my playing to my uncle 'cause I had like a little four track mixer from my DJing days so John C. Lyons: Hmm. Tony Grey: I could record myself practice. And he sent it to my uncle who was John McLaughlin, who's like a super famous jazz musician. And he s suggested I go to Berkeley. So I came to America a few months later and that was it. That was John C. Lyons: Wow. Tony Grey: it. Never looked back. John C. Lyons: Wow. That's incredible. So you yeah, you had kind of like been forced into music at a very young age. you rebelled against that, kind of got back in with the DJing and the partying scene. then the bass finds you. that's very interesting. How did you like cause back in those days there wasn't YouTube and stuff like that? Like, how did you Did you have books to learn or did you go were you able to incorporate stuff that you learned from like music school and like from your teacher and stuff? Tony Grey: No, I didn't. I had I was very limited. There was like I went to a music store and just grabbed any book that had bass written on it, basically. I John C. Lyons: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Tony Grey: had like no guidance. my friend's dad was a bass player. So I I went to his house and took a couple of lessons off him and he would just give me stuff to work on and I I just was working through this book that I picked up. And John C. Lyons: Mm-hmm. Tony Grey: that was it man. Just l just learned the hard way, really, actually. I remember getting so confused and frustrated about trying to understand harmony and theory and all that. And I remember just I was always at my friend's house. They would be watching football games and I would go around because it was a usual hang, you know. So I would go around, but I would bring my notepad and paper and I'd just be writing out scales and I remember them getting really irritated and like kind of making fun of me for doing that. But I was just so focused on trying to wrap my head around it. John C. Lyons: Yeah. Tony Grey: Then the opportunity of Berkeley came, and I just went, you know. But John C. Lyons: Yeah, Berkeley is not a not a easy school to get into. did you have to go there and like audition? Like what's what's that process? Tony Grey: Yeah. Had to send him a tape. Well, here's the thing, man. You know, it's very interesting how things panned out because I bought a book. It was a Charlie Parker. I don't know if you know Charlie he's a Bebop player, like John C. Lyons: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Tony Grey: legendary saxophone player. There was a book it was just all of Charlie Parker's solos. But it was written in Bass Clef. And I didn't know who Charlie Parker was, what these songs were or anything. But John C. Lyons: Yeah. Tony Grey: I knew that there was a famous song called Donna Lee. So I learned the the melody and I learned this so his solo and it took me like months to learn it and I got it up to the tempo on the thing but I didn't know what it was, right? So I I got it up to tempo and that's what I recorded to send to my uncle. And he must have thought, wow, he's improvising his jazz stuff. It's incredible. But he must have thought like genius, right? And there's been yeah, I've been playing for six months and all this. He's like, wow, you need to go to Berkeley and really nurture this gift or whatever, you know? And then so that was the tape that I sent to Berkeley. And they put me in like a really high ensemble rating and gave me a good John C. Lyons: Mm-hmm. Tony Grey: scholarship. And they must have thought, because my uncle's well known, so they must have thought, Wow, this kid's like incredible, like so they put me in the high. John C. Lyons: Yeah. Tony Grey: Yeah, but it w but you know, it was like it I was just playing somebody else's solo. I just learned how to play it technically. John C. Lyons: Yeah. Tony Grey: It was an improvised solo, you know, but I wasn't improvising. So I was playing it almost like a technique, but I didn't know what improvising was. So I was John C. Lyons: Mm-hmm. Tony Grey: just like, Yeah, I'm the shit, man. And then so they they put me in this ensemble, this like high level ensemble with all of the like great students at Berkeley. And I remember they were like, Okay, let's play a blues and get acquainted and I I played the first note of the blues and that was all I could play. I was so embarrassed. I didn't know what to play. I was like they were like, Why what's wrong? Why ain't you playing? I was I don't know how to play. So they were John C. Lyons: Holy shit. Tony Grey: the the guitar player said, Hey, you want me to play the bass? The guitar player got my bass and played the blues and I just sat there like no idea what's going on, guys. So they put me John C. Lyons: Wow. man. Tony Grey: in the lowest level ensemble and then I was just absolutely determined at that point to write my own curriculum the way I could understand it and just try to catch up somehow. John C. Lyons: Uh-huh. Tony Grey: Which was actually very unhealthy and I would get a lot of anxiety and social anxiety and panic attacks and it was awful, man. My first two years at Berkeley were like horrible, dude. John C. Lyons: Were you did you did you feel like kind of an outcast and stuff basically? Tony Grey: like a total outcast, had never left the country really before. John C. Lyons: Yeah. Tony Grey: My uncle's John McLaughlin, he's like this legendary guitar player, play with Miles Davis. He and all the students who knew about it were like, Man, you suppose they wanted to play with me because of the association. John C. Lyons: Yeah. Tony Grey: And then I remember playing with one Japanese guy and he wanted to play like odd time signatures and I couldn't play. I didn't understand it, so I was getting lost. And yeah, I heard him say, Aren't you supposed to be John McLaughlin's nephew? I heard him say John C. Lyons: shit. Tony Grey: this stuff, man. So I was I just got really insecure and nervous. And then but fortunately John C. Lyons: It's a very competitive environment, right? Like it's it's a bunch Tony Grey: Awful man. John C. Lyons: Yeah. Tony Grey: I don't know what it's like now, I'm sure it's a different now. But back in the day it was pretty awful. but here's the thing: I met the Scottish guy, you know, you can always rely on Scottish guys, man. Like he he liked me, we got along because we're from the same neighborhood, like we have the same humor, you know, like John C. Lyons: Yeah. Tony Grey: we like go out and have a beer and all that and play he played drums. So he John C. Lyons: What'd he play? Okay. Tony Grey: he's a very charismatic guy, Alan Brown. So There was an audition going around the school like very early on, like it was my second semester or sec I think it was my second semester. And this guy was doing auditions around the country looking for a a boy band that could play music, instruments. Not just a boy band, but guys who could play. So they would go to all these music schools and obviously Berkeley. So they had this big audition set up. My friend said, Hey man, just come and audition with me, man. I Didn't want to drop out of school for obvious reasons. He was only gonna be supposed to be going there for a year to add on John C. Lyons: Mm. Tony Grey: to his degree or whatever he already had in Scotland. So he was just doing a yeah. I was supposed to be there for the four four years. So anyway, I went along with him for this audition. He's flipping his drumsticks around, he's doing magic tricks to the guy, he's like telling jokes, he's like cracking on with me 'cause I'm his pal. I was like a good buffer for him to really shine and be a character. He John C. Lyons: Yeah. Tony Grey: got the gig immediately, man. John C. Lyons: Wow. Tony Grey: And then he called me up and said, Hey, do you wanna do the gig? And the guys called me up and said, We want you to come to New York and audition with another guy. We're trying to decide whether we want you or this other guy. So John C. Lyons: Mm-hmm. Tony Grey: I w I went to New York, auditioned, got the gig man, and moved to Asia, moved to Southeast Asia for three years. Had like three top ten hits. like John C. Lyons: See you Berkeley. Tony Grey: s see later, joined got a record deal. The guy who signed us was John C. Lyons: What was the band what's the band's name? Can you share it? Bliss. yeah, I remember you telling me about this. Yeah. Tony Grey: Yes, Bliss. Bliss. So we have Mt I'll send you a link, man. We have like MTV videos and all s all kinds of stuff. Well, we went to Thailand first. John C. Lyons: Okay, so you go to Japan. That's a okay. All right. Tony Grey: Well, Singapore actually, Singapore, then we went to Thailand, we went to India, Indonesia, Philippines. We went we went all over man. And John C. Lyons: Stars. Tony Grey: touring like T V shows, basketball games, all c like big stars in that region, you know? And John C. Lyons: What kind of mu like what was the style of music? Like who wrote it? Like were you weren't were you covering stuff or like? Tony Grey: There were there was a couple of covers, but it was all it was original stuff from the keyboard player. Let's div the lead vocal he was a guitar player and the lead vocalist was sometimes did keys and he was like the charis he was the guy who they were trying to build a band around, you know. John C. Lyons: Okay, yeah. Tony Grey: So we moved to Philadelphia for a few months to train, to rehearse, to film with the camera. Like we had our spots where we were practicing doing the videos and man, it was huge. that's where I learned how to play bass because I John C. Lyons: Uh-huh. Tony Grey: because it was just when we first went there they were like, Okay, we need to get everything together, but because our my student visa has expired, I had me and the drummer from Scotland had to leave the country. So they sent us to Singapore for like three months while John C. Lyons: Wow. Tony Grey: they prepared everything in the back's back end. So they got us a gig in a hotel, actually for like sixteen weeks, just playing cover music. So there were like, hey, here's a list of songs to learn, here's a tape, you know. John C. Lyons: Yeah. Tony Grey: So I just remember sitting in the room just like memorizing these like chumbawumba and like whatever, you know what I mean? Like Pink Floyd, like shit that I never heard before, you know what I mean? So I learned all of this music by memory and then this did this sixteen week hotel gig before our album was released. And then every now and again would go to do radio interviews or magazine interviews or whatever, just preparing for the album launch. Then the John C. Lyons: Yeah. Tony Grey: album launched and we were just everywhere. We couldn't we couldn't check in the hotels under our names. We're getting f John C. Lyons: Real deal. Tony Grey: Bro, I've got a documentary on this man. It was like craziness man. But the guy who signed us was the guy who owned Chrysalis Records. His name was Terry Ellis and he was the guy who discovered Blondie, Jethro Tull Billy Idol, Huey Lewis and the news. So he was like a big player John C. Lyons: Yeah. Tony Grey: in the business. And yeah man. So the next three years I did that and then my uncle and my dad were like, You dropped out of school to do that? You kidding me? John C. Lyons: no respect. Tony Grey: So I ha I left. When the band broke up thing, I I went back to fortunately I was accepted back into Berkeley and John C. Lyons: Mm. Tony Grey: that's when I met Hiromi and I really kinda knew how to play bass at that point. I knew what to work on. Yeah. She lived in the apartment John C. Lyons: Hiromi went to Berkeley? Okay. Okay. Tony Grey: right below me. John C. Lyons: So in your round two, Berkeley round two, y then you had some serious experience. You'd been on the road. Tony Grey: That's when I really knew what I Yeah. And 'cause half the gig is I I learned that half of the battle is being comfortable in being being comfortable when you're super uncomfortable, like having the camera in your face, or like being on a massive stage, or like doing interviews or or like just conducting yourself as a human being, you know what I mean? Like it's the it's not easy, man. John C. Lyons: How do you Yeah, like how do you get there? Is it just like like a re a repetition thing? You just gotta get your time and your reps in and eventually you feel more comfortable in your own skin in that kind of exposed way, or is it something that you have to like a mental state you gotta get yourself in or what? Tony Grey: I guess it's different for everybody. You know, my personality is shy. So what they did with me is, well, first of all, we went to the Philly for the three months where my visa became a tourist visa. So that was where the three months in Philly was. And literally the manager they had a manager, this these guys or us, I guess we had a manager from Jersey and he would drive in from Philly and film us and like film our rehearsals and watch them back and give us pointers. But then I think the main reason why they wanted us to do this hotel gig was so we could get exposure playing on stage every single night. John C. Lyons: Uh-huh. Tony Grey: the the manager would all film every gig and then we'd go back to the rooms and watch it and you would be like, Tony, I need you to be more active, I need you to do this, you need to work on your back and vocals. They had us outside of our comfort zone, so I had to actually put my bass down and sing lead stuff, which John C. Lyons: huh. wow. Tony Grey: I'm which I was so horri like horrified. So we all had to do that. We all had to kind of take the lead. John C. Lyons: Trial by fire. Tony Grey: Yeah, and just kind of every night sing a like a a different song or or they would give us a song to learn and next week you're singing that for a week. And yeah, it was kind of John C. Lyons: Then you'd you'd go over the tape like like you would in like sports or whatever, right? Like a sports team. Tony Grey: Just go over it. We get some notes like this is what you gotta work on. We had endorsements with clothes companies. So we'd we would go out shopping and getting our look together and John C. Lyons: did you have to play like a character, like be a certain kind of personality or something? Tony Grey: Yeah, well We just we just leaned into 'cause we all had different characters. So we w the I guess we all had our p I was like kinda posh spice, if you like. I always had the Armani stuff on and all that. Which Yeah. John C. Lyons: nice. Good call. Good call. Tony Grey: And Alan was like the meathead kinda like he always like had his tank tops on with his muscles sticking out and dyed bleached John C. Lyons: Mm-hmm. Tony Grey: blonde hair and all that. So we all kinda had like the the we had a guitar player who was into like pink Floyd and he had like hair covering his face and all that and he John C. Lyons: Okay. Tony Grey: had a double neck guitar and so I guess we had we all had our our vibes and they just John C. Lyons: Yeah, yeah. Tony Grey: kinda kinda I wasn't privy to like they would just tell us what to wear, you know? They would be like they would put a cut like a our today's clothes out and that were what we would wear, you know. so John C. Lyons: Yeah, man. It's a real deal. Holy shit. Okay, yeah. Sorry, I jumped I j I jumped on your meeting Hiromi. so talk a little bit about Hiromi because when you showed me you playing with Hiromi, it like blew my mind. And, you know, you talked about like touring with her and stuff like that. And then I was lucky enough to get to see her and meet some people in the in the band at the Blue Note in New York. But like yeah, so when you when you met her, did you start playing together like immediately or you know kind of how did that situation develop touring and being a part of that band? Tony Grey: Well we Yeah, well we i it it started out I was in another project at the time when I met her, but you know, she was this very quiet, introverted, I would say, like Japanese genius piano player, like Virtuoso, like playing with a Czech philharmonic when she was like six or whatever. Like proper prodigy, you know? Well you've heard her play. I mean she's she's John C. Lyons: Sam Yeah. Tony Grey: been like that since she was like this big, you know. Like I took piano lessons at four I was Struggling with like Humpty Dumpty Man. He was writing crazy stuff, you know? She'd be like, she John C. Lyons: Yeah. Yeah, she's like a generational talent for sure. Tony Grey: Yeah, and and she was picked up by Yamaha at a very young age and nurtured and John C. Lyons: Okay. Tony Grey: yeah, so anyway, so I met her, we were in a project band together at Berkeley and I ended up playing her recital. You know, she she had like recitals for college and because I knew her, we were friends, I would play some of these recitals with her. But when she first got the record deal, didn't play with her on the road at the beginning, it was somebody else. John C. Lyons: Uh-huh. Tony Grey: But then they decided to go down a different path, like a more hip hop path. And it's a ma it's interesting because that guy who was playing with them with Mitch Cohn he ended up he's now the musical director of Chris Brown and Usher, he's doing that big tour. he's doing all of the music, everything. John C. Lyons: Yeah, okay. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Tony Grey: And he does Cardi B and all all this. So he was like, That's my path. So he went that way, John C. Lyons: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Tony Grey: And the did she ask me to kind of jump in, it was like he'd left a John C. Lyons: Is this after school? Did you finish Berkeley at that point or were you still in school? Tony Grey: I think we were we were still maybe in the last semester or maybe it was just after the last semester and we were just still around the the area, you know. Like John C. Lyons: Okay. Tony Grey: after Berkeley, maybe we stayed around the Boston area for about a year after graduation and then moved John C. Lyons: Mm-hmm. Tony Grey: to New York. because it's hard to like, you know, some of your friends are still in school and it's comfortable and you know your John C. Lyons: Sure. Tony Grey: way around and you're on tour and it's like good to come back to and you still got the facilities there and you know, so there's a lot to be gain from just being in the environment of Berkeley without actually studying there. John C. Lyons: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. A lot of networking opportunities and gig opportunities and stuff, I'm sure. Like projects like they were Tony Grey: So many man. John C. Lyons: saying. Tony Grey: So many opportunities. So anyway, yeah, so we I was I got kinda called like almost last minute, like, hey, I'm doing a tour like in a couple of weeks. Can you help me out or whatever? That's how it started. So I was like, sure. so she said, Come to my apartment and we'll rehearse, you know. John C. Lyons: Mm-hmm. Tony Grey: So I went to her apartment. The drummer was away somewhere, so it was just me and her. and it was a Japanese T V crew, man. Filming our rehearsal for the first time and it was on some documentary in Japan, I was like John C. Lyons: Really? Is this available somewhere too? Man, you gotta give me a list of like all this stuff. Tony Grey: It will be available 'cause it was on t it was on a T V show, but I personally I I don't recall seeing John C. Lyons: Okay. Ever seen it? Tony Grey: it, but I'm sure it's kinda out there in the ether somewhere. John C. Lyons: Mm-hmm. Tony Grey: so where we were rehearsing, we did the stuff. I guess I passed John C. Lyons: Mm-hmm. Tony Grey: and because I played with it before in school, it was just kind of mo a little bit more serious now. so we did some gigs and then I just ended up staying in the band. Then we recorded a record and I ended up in the band for like eight years. John C. Lyons: So when okay, so you were in the band for eight years. When d can you kinda guess what year you know, you started like playing with her in her band and then then I can find the timeline. Tony Grey: Pro probably around the yeah, probably around the two thousand three, four period. John C. Lyons: Okay. Yeah, yeah. Tony Grey: Around somewhere around there, maybe f two thousand four. I have a Tokyo jazz t shirt f like I've got these dates, I don't even know. Like her last album John C. Lyons: It's all good. The early aughts. It was the early aughts until like probably around like twenty ten or something like that then. Tony Grey: Yeah, something like that. And we did we did four records. I did four of her records and two D V Ds. So John C. Lyons: Wow. Wow. And how often were you playing out? Tony Grey: All the time, like twenty days a month. Easy, easily. John C. Lyons: Yeah. Yeah, she seems pretty hard hardcore, like like pretty pro prolific. Tony Grey: Yeah, would like go to Europe for like three weeks and then you come home for like four days and then go to like the west coast for like four days and then come back for a week and then go to Japan for a month and then come things like that all the time. Would be John C. Lyons: How's how's that lifestyle? Like did you enjoy it? Did it s did it wear on you? Like was it awesome? Tony Grey: It wears on you for sure because you're never home. I d my baby at the time, Jack, he was like super young. he's eighteen now, but like at the time he was like young, like a baby. Up in you know, it was like his whole childhood really. so we'd be away for Christmas, for his birthday. In Japan, they don't really they celebrate Christmas, but they don't celebrate it. It's more of a like a Like there's a c let's go see the concert, you know. You we would never do a concert here on Christmas Day, you know. so but in Japan it's like a big deal, so we'd go over there and always do a concert on Christmas Day somewhere and then there'd be a tour around it and so it was kind of important times you'd miss, you know. John C. Lyons: Yeah. So you're all in on the lifestyle, like there's no way not to be here. Tony Grey: Yeah, but you know, just before that I was in that pop band. So I was like I was always away. John C. Lyons: Yeah, you knew the Yeah. Tony Grey: it just became like my life, you know, like it just became that way. Luckily, because I know gigs are hard to come by, so John C. Lyons: Mm-hmm. Tony Grey: looking back, you know, I was like, man, I kind of lucked out. I could have easily not had a gig and had to come back to England. And then John C. Lyons: Yeah. Yeah, seriously. Like the fact that you got in two touring bands, like, you know, in in and right after school is awesome. Tony Grey: Just by chance too. It wasn't because like I was sought after. It was just because my Scottish guy thrived with being comfortable looking at me while he's being an idiot. And and so he John C. Lyons: What's he doing now? What's your Scottish guy doing now? Are you still in touch? Tony Grey: Yeah, we're in touch. He's a he's in Scotland. He's he's still he's he's a teacher now. He's teaching in the in in the school and then he does his gigs here and there, you know. John C. Lyons: Okay, cool, cool. All right, so yeah, you're you're playing out with Hiromi. when do you start working on your own material? Is it while you're on the road you're kinda getting into it? Like when do you start working on solo stuff? Tony Grey: Yeah. Well I I re I remember my teacher in England, my mate's dad, he was like whatever you do, you write your own music because like at the end of the day that's all you've got, you know, you've got your you know so I didn't consider myself a composer. I was very apprehensive to write. But I remember actually I wrote a piece of music and my roommate heard it and he went, what are you working on? and I played it and he went, Wow, you're a composer. I didn't know. And I was really f you know, obviously maybe you can get the thread that when I hear someone say shit, it it would the words impact me, man, deeply, you know. So if someone John C. Lyons: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Tony Grey: said, that asshole over there, or that skinny kid over there, John C. Lyons: Yeah. Tony Grey: you know, I feel offended. But then again, like when the guy was like, you're a composer, I felt like a sense of pride, like, Really? You think I'm a composer? And I just took a lot John C. Lyons: Uh-huh. It drives you. Tony Grey: of it dro it it drove me, yeah. So I started to kind of be a little bit more brave and tried to write more and more and more, you know. And then I just John C. Lyons: So when was this? What what time in the Tony timeline is is this when you're starting Tony Grey: Let me look. John C. Lyons: to write more stuff? Is that when you're in school too? Berkeley second round? Or f Tony Grey: I don't know man. Like yeah, when I I did my first I did my first record, second round called Moving. And I yeah, I remember that I was thinking I was getting ready to graduate. I didn't really know what was coming next. And I just I was like I need a business card and I and I my goal, you know, because actually I ru I was really into manifestation at the time. So I would write all a a list of names of musicians who I admired who I would want to play with at some point. John C. Lyons: wow. Tony Grey: So I wrote I remember writing them on the on the wall, not on the wall but on a piece of paper on and stuck it on the wall. So when I was practicing I was looking at these names or whatever. And so I rem Yeah. John C. Lyons: Hmm. Do you remember those names or d do you want to say any of them? Tony Grey: Yeah, definitely. Mike Stern, John Mc John McLaughlin, my uncle, Herbie Hancock. Because John's John's not the kind of guy who'll give you a gig because of nepotism, you know, because it's his re but he doesn't want a shitty bass player on his music. John C. Lyons: Mm-hmm. Tony Grey: So, you know, when he offered Asked me if I wanted to record his on his record, it was like, wow, I really felt I'd earned it, John C. Lyons: Yeah, yeah. Tony Grey: so yeah, John McLaughlin, Herbie Hancock, Wayne Shorter, Mike Stern I said, Dennis Chambers, a great drummer, Sting, John C. Lyons: your uncle eventually invited you to play. Did you play have you played with anyone else on that list yet? Tony Grey: Everybody, everybody but Sting, like literally everybody but Sting, like Herbie John C. Lyons: Really? Tony Grey: Hancock, yeah, everyb Brantford Marcellus, like everybody I wrote on our list I've played with. d s Sting John C. Lyons: That's incredible, Tony. Tony Grey: is the only one that I haven't played with and I've tried but John C. Lyons: Well Sting is still out there. Come on, Sting. Tony Grey: Well I've tried, but he's a bass player, so I I'm expect you know, it's kind of unusual, but man, I have really tried to connect with him and I've have so many mutual friends who work closely with him. I've spoken with him, I've had exchanged letters with him. Like it's it's all it's like always there, but we'll see. I mean, you know, you never know, right? He's a Geordie, he's from w my hometown. So John C. Lyons: Okay. Tony Grey: I it was just always kind of a dream, you know. But John C. Lyons: Man, that's incredible that like almost everyone on your list save one. That's huge. Tony Grey: Yeah, but you know, it's it because well the the the I think the powerful thing about that is just because their names are like i i like at the forefront, like even if John C. Lyons: Uh-huh. Tony Grey: it's just becomes subliminal after a while, once the opportunity kind of presents itself, I feel like you're just ready to act on it and you're very aware that it's there. Whereas John C. Lyons: Mm-hmm. Tony Grey: if you're oblivious and too much in your own world, then you know, these things pass you by so easily. John C. Lyons: Yeah, and maybe you're not mentally prepared for it and you can get like you can freeze up and stuff like that. But early on you had like these goals. Tony Grey: Yeah. So if I'd see these people, I would be like, Hey, I'd love to play. I'd like go and like pester them, you know? So John C. Lyons: Mm-hmm. Tony Grey: I remember my first record was a business card for me. So when I went John C. Lyons: Yeah, yeah. Tony Grey: to New York, I went to see Mike Stern play in a in a small jazz club called the Fifty Five Bar. And I was like literally from here to my computer just watching him like that. And I just went up there when I was like, Hey, do you mind if I give you my record? I love you playing so much. Like, sure, man. I give my record. I said, How can I play with you? How can I be in touch? He gave me his phone number. He said, Call me up and called him up. And he said, Come to my house, man, let's practice. And I would go to his home and practice with him all the time. And he ended up on my record and then I would when I was on the road road with Hiromi, we'd be on the same festival and just like amazing, man. John C. Lyons: It is amazing. Yeah, and you're right. If you're you know, if you're playing on someone else's album, that's cool, but you had the foresight to think of, you know, like having to get your own stuff down, your own album, that's that that feels more like solid, right? Tony Grey: Getting my hero, getting my heroes to invite them to play on my records. So like John C. Lyons: Yeah. Tony Grey: literally a lot of my heroes have played on my records, thankfully. And John C. Lyons: Yeah. Tony Grey: and that's kind of my it's printed, you know, it's done. There. John C. Lyons: Yeah. Tony Grey: The aliens will find them. John C. Lyons: That's right. Okay, so you start working on your own material. by the time you're wrapping up your eight years that's which is quite a run. Eight years with Hiromi, that's that's quite a lot. I'm sure you build up some major bass playing muscles of of your own Tony Grey: Damaged a few more or less. I yeah, I I built up a few and then destroyed a few. John C. Lyons: Yeah. Yeah. So at that point in time, what's the next chapter? What do you what do you pivot towards? What do you decide to manifest if you're still manifesting then? like what are your goals at that point? What do you want to do? Tony Grey: Well yeah, it was it was a very tricky period because I'd actually moved to Erie to be closer to Jack's grandparents, like you know, my my wife had parents lived in Erie and she wanted to live close to though them while I was John C. Lyons: Mm-hmm. Tony Grey: away on the road all the time. So I kind of reluctantly, but I had to cause my son was here, so I had to move to this area but I was still playing with Hiromi. So I was very nervous about what was next. I didn't I didn't have the opportunity to drive to my friend's house and jam with them, you know, 'cause like I'm just in Erie all of a sudden. So I'm like John C. Lyons: Yeah, you're like in the middle must have felt like you're in the middle of nowhere. Tony Grey: Yeah, absolutely. And my accent s really stands out here. So I would be like getting weird looks and so yeah, I didn't know what I was gonna do next, but I still had the luxury of being on the road with Hiromi. But then when that gig ended, about a John C. Lyons: Mm-hmm. Tony Grey: two years later, I didn't know what I was gonna do. So I did manifest and I I was like I wanted to start a school. I wanted to start my own online school. So I started preparing and planning for that. hopefully would use my reputation. because I was always getting students kind of come to my hotel rooms for lessons and stuff when I was away in Spain or all over, you know. John C. Lyons: okay. Yeah. Tony Grey: so to have a couple of students at the in the lobby waiting for me to give them a lesson before my gig or whatever. So that became like a theme and then I would start doing Skype lessons I told you like at Berkeley. I wanted to create my own curriculum because so John C. Lyons: Mm-hmm. Tony Grey: the school was kind of like I was just in school. I wasn't paying attention to the lessons or the or my homework was last minute and I was really just focused on like trying to learn and absorb music theory in my own way. And John C. Lyons: Yeah. Which so yeah, I assume like Berkeley is like the most traditional of traditional sense of music theory and stuff like that. So that's interesting that back then you were like, Yeah, I need to like find my own way through this, which I'm sure is something that a lot of people could benefit from, right? Like there's not just Tony Grey: Well, John C. Lyons: one way to to learn. Tony Grey: No, there's a million ways to learn. but for me I needed to like I needed to learn absorb it in the and it's 'cause you know, there's a lot of like taken for granted that you know what certain scales are at Berkeley. So th a lot of the times the teacher would be talking about theoretical stuff and it would just be over my head and I would be getting anxious or stressed about it. So really for me it was just like I would go home and like write out the scales and all keys and learn them and learn them all over the instrument and try to place them and memorize in my mind and learn the instrument inside and out and you know, like transcribing a lot of different artists or whatever. So actually when I started to build my school, I was already into building the lists and manifesting stuff. So I would just write a list of what are the things you want to learn and then kinda start mind mapping things. Okay, I need to know that, I need to know that, I need to know that. And then I I would just kind of develop my own curriculum and So I blew I did the blueprint first and then just started chipping away at writing documents and then the less the video lessons came later. John C. Lyons: Mm-hmm. Tony Grey: So there was no LED lights and like nice man, it was halogen lamps like that the workers have in the road. That's what I was filming with, man. Yeah. Melting the paint behind my face. John C. Lyons: Yeah, things are expensive. I mean did Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. With the cla clamp on with the metal yeah, yeah. Yeah, I used like work lights. Yeah, yeah. I used those when like on our first films for sure. Yeah, that same kind of clip on work light. That's Tony Grey: What? John C. Lyons: that's great. Good reference there. Very nostalgic Tony Grey: Yeah. John C. Lyons: for for that, Tony. That's hilarious. Did you charge when you were doing Skype lessons and stuff? Or did you were you not charging at that okay. And what people Tony Grey: Yeah. I was charging. John C. Lyons: would pay pal you or something? Like how did how did you wow. Tony Grey: There was no PayPal. It was there was I can't even remember how they paid. Probably, yeah. John C. Lyons: They'd mail you a check or something and you'd hope you'd get paid in a month. Wow. Tony Grey: Something like that, man. Yeah. John C. Lyons: Okay. So you're kind of like soft launching your own school. I mean, was it called the Tony Grey Base Academy like back then? Was that always the the name? Or was it just kind of like you're taking lessons with Tony kind of a thing? Did you brand yourself Tony Grey: Yeah, it was always yeah, John C. Lyons: then? Tony Grey: it was al it was always the Tony Grey Bass Academy. John C. Lyons: Wow, okay. All right. So you're starting to pivot to that. When did you get to the point of like, okay, I'm gonna get really serious about this and record a ton of videos? Because you've recorded so many, like hundreds and hundreds of videos at this point. Tony Grey: Yeah, hundreds. Yeah, I got serious pretty quick, you know. I like once I'd had the blueprint, I went out over to England and actually I met a a guy who was teaching meditation and I went to one of his seminars and he was trying to get a brainstorming group together. so we had a guy who was working on LinkedIn, a guy who was working on natural juicing, you know, he was a expert at vegetables and stuff. John C. Lyons: Okay. Tony Grey: And there was a couple others, I don't necessarily remember everybody, but there was about four or five of us maybe. And we rented a cottage in England for like a week. And we were just in our own headspace writing out our lists and trying to create a online business we would press do presentations for each other every night and then be like, Hey, what about this? You should talk about the benefits of beet root man, you know? John C. Lyons: Yeah. Tony Grey: Like beetroot pineapple's good for influ you should talk about daff a musician like would be like doing stuff like that. John C. Lyons: So you're like all cross pollinating each other's projects and giving each other feedback and stu how long was this kind what would you call it? It was like a retreat, like a business retreat or something? Tony Grey: Yeah, it's like a business retreat or you know, it was weird. John C. Lyons: Yeah. Tony Grey: that's why I started getting mindful about my b my my teaching philosophy, you know, like trying to be nurturing as opposed to like this is a scale and this is how you rip on it. It'd be more like, you know, this is new a new th a new device and this isn't you're gonna nurture it and love it and, you know, take care of it and create with it and so it became more like philosophical in in my teaching approach, trying to like help students with anxiety, you know, because John C. Lyons: Uh-huh. Tony Grey: you know, a lot you wouldn't believe how many students I've met who are like, I don't have the talent, I'm not good like you or yeah, I'm I'm good, but you know, I'll never do it seriously and like very self limiting, you know. John C. Lyons: Mm-hmm. Tony Grey: I'm like you sound like me, but I still somehow did it, right? So John C. Lyons: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Like in their own head. You c you were trying to make it like approachable for people. Tony Grey: Yeah, exactly. Make it like take away the myth, you know, because I think a lot of music education is kind of have a has a veil of complexity around it that doesn't need to be there. You know, it's just John C. Lyons: Uh-huh. Tony Grey: a bunch of notes, really. And once you understand John C. Lyons: Yeah. Like you're born with it or you're not, kind of a thing. And people feel Tony Grey: Well John C. Lyons: like they're not. Tony Grey: Yeah, exactly. You know, it's like because as soon as you have to put a bit of effort into it and because music's something we really resonate with and we're all passionate about whether we're musicians or not, it's very easy to feel judged by it, you know, when John C. Lyons: Mm-hmm. Tony Grey: we're playing. Like I just started learning chromatic harmonica. I don't even get a a nice s sound out of the lowest note. I'm like, man. So I'm like a beginner, total beginner, but I'm like Now you gotta nurture it and like the the the so today was the first time I really got a a pure sound out of the low note and I'm like it is about like just learning and taking your time but so many people they get to that stage that they would quit like suck at this this I can't do it you know John C. Lyons: Hm. Yeah. Tony Grey: especially if somebody comes in and goes man you suck don't lose your day job you you would because it because it's something that you really have a passion for that it's very easy to be like kind of deterred from for John C. Lyons: Yeah, for sure. Tony Grey: going through that painful period of growth, you know. So John C. Lyons: Yeah. Tony Grey: that was kind of what I wanted to do was to help people pursue it and give them like chunk information where they could create and be like, yeah, it sounds pretty cool, man. And it's actually not John C. Lyons: Yeah. Tony Grey: that hard. And then you just get a little bit more in depth as you go until you just rip in over whatever you want to rip over, you know. John C. Lyons: Yeah. this is kind of an odd question, but I don't know if we've ever talked about this movie. Have you seen the movie Whiplash? Tony Grey: No, I've not. John C. Lyons: Okay. I'm curious, Tony Grey: Should I? John C. Lyons: like yeah, you should. Whiplash is yeah, just just look it up. It's this drummer and he goes to like I mean it might be Berkeley or something. He goes to like some high end school and it it shows like how cutthroat and like very intimidating and Tony Grey: Super intimidating. John C. Lyons: Yeah, so I I okay. So you're you're finding out that like, you know, there's an there's a niche, there's a niche with music education and a an approach style that yeah can be more nurturing and more friendly and more accessible for people, which I think is really super cool. that you went that route. Hey friends, that was part one of my interview with Tony Grey Tune in next week for part two. Thanks for listening. We'll be back soon.