Latest / Dots and Dreams / Episode 9: Why Love Will Be Your Most Important Relationship to Lean on During Career Highs and Lows

Transcript

Episode 9: Why Love Will Be Your Most Important Relationship to Lean on During Career Highs and Lows · Dots and Dreams

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: My husband and I are really good at thinking about time together.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: We might not always get the opportunity to prioritize it,
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: but we think about it more than we'd like to admit,
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: especially considering that we have two small kids,
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: so most of the times we're exhausted.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Somehow it just feels like the act of thinking about it is an accomplishment in itself.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: What I didn't expect when I got laid off from my job was how much I think
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: about time alone with Max.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't expect to what extent my relationship would need the love and attention
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: that my own ego would require or simply survive the career pivot I embarked on.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: Career pivots can feel very lonely and isolating,
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: and we often forget that our partners are not only living with us,
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: but they are the people who see us at our best and at our worst.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: So why was it so hard for me to lean into Max's support rather
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: than feeling like I was alone paddling in the boat?
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Dots and Dreams,
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: a podcast about the real vulnerable and my sometimes in the moment stories
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: of life transitions.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Jenny Sidorova, and I've been an immigrant, marketer, mother, a serial reinventor.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: And today,
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: I want to talk about why leaning on love during a career pivot will prove to be
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: a lifeline.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's October 2025 and Lena and I just got back from a week in San Francisco to visit my family.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: She was just about to turn five at the time,
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: so this is literally almost a year ago when I'm recording this episode.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: Max and I decided to wait until the end of the year to make any decisions
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: about my next job and our potential move because we had started talking
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: about I got back from San Francisco, though, and I told him,
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: This was essentially me giving us the green light to move.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: He said okay,
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: but what neither he nor I expected was the oyster shell I would turn into for
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: the next week.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'd obsessively think about this pivot in my job search,
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: no longer looking for remote,
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: no longer staying where we live,
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: but looking for something in office and being open to moving remotely.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: I would behave in the typical way I behaved in every other big career pivot
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: in my life during the week that followed.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: Basically absorbed and on my own.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it wasn't until Max told me, hey Jenny, we're in this together.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: I get that it's a lot, but we still have to enjoy life while we figure this out.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: You can't just be in your own little oyster shell over there.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: We still have to enjoy our time.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: We still have to spend time as a family while we make this happen.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: You are not on your own.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: He reminded me that we're in the boat together and that I needed to come up for air.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: And this is just one week after I got back and said, I'm going to start looking.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: I get where he was coming from.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: I was basically a little bit of a crazy person.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: The process that I would always go into in the past whenever I needed to make
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: a career pivot was complete absorption.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: I would work.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: I would walk around thinking 100% of the time about this change that I needed
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: to make and I would obsess over it.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of times I probably had a specific stank face.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't notice that until getting married and maximizing.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: What's going on?
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: Why do you look like something just died or smells or what is this?
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: What is this face?
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's my stink face.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm freaking out over something.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I didn't realize that was a thing.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: My theory is pretty simple.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: Which is that your partner ends up being the punching bag.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: Every rejection email I got,
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: every swing toward a deeply negative thought, whoever is closest absorbs it.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: And in my case, that is Max.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: I just sort of lost the ability to show up in my relationship at all.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: Every bit of my bandwidth was kind of just going to, how am I going to get through this?
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: When am I going to find a job?
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my God, panic, panic, panic.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's hard for me not to make it about myself because that's how it's always been in the past.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: Just like that reminder in October when Max kind of yanks me out and put me back
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: to reality, reminding me like, hey, you don't live alone anymore.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: I can't make my whole household miserable while I figure it out.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: But this is probably a common thing for women like me who get married
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: at 30-something and, well, yeah, I lived alone before that.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: I built my career.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: This is a very different experience to have to navigate something so personal
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: while sharing a life with my partner and my children.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: We strong women who can stand on our own two feet are also not really great
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: at leaning on people or asking for help.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: Every other time I had to do this in life, I was alone.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, I had a few years with roommates,
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: so maybe they saw my stank face,
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: but we just all did our own thing and nobody said anything.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: This is very different.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Having a partner that reminds me that I'm not alone is essential for my mental health.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it has been essential in this process.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: But it isn't always enough.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: Last year was the year where it was the hardest for me to show up as myself in my marriage.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: What I mean by myself is just...
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: Showing up with a positive energy,
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: showing up willing to talk about different things, laugh together, just be light.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: I was incapable of being light.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: We have this specific exercise that we do annually.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: And we spend some time each writing things down separately and then we share with each other.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: And this last New Year's,
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: something difficult surfaced,
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: which is our marriage itself landed in Max's difficult list.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, it made the
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: He wasn't blaming me in any way.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: He was very supportive.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: But hearing it kind of made me wake up.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: It made me feel like, oh my God, mayday.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: I do not want my relationship to suffer from this difficult situation that I'm in.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: I am not alone.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: Max and I will always figure it out.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: New Year's Eve just really...
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah,
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: if he had to pick what were the three things that were the most difficult in 2025,
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: one of them was our marriage.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: That was just a really hard pill to swallow.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: The thing is,
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: is Max and I have already had an experience at the start of our relationship
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: in New York in our late 20s where we were together for three years and we broke up.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: We broke up honestly because we didn't know how to communicate.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: We were unable to have conversations with each other
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: where we could actually really understand how the other one was feeling.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: We were both very impulsive and very immature even though we were not that young.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: I was 30 when we broke up.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: But we learned back then the value and importance of communication in a relationship.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I think when we came back together and built a life together...
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's something that we were both subconsciously really aware of.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: Couples therapy, when you're on the brink of divorce, is probably already too late.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: We've thought about it at other moments in our lives because obviously
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: when we had Victor, it was hard going from one kid to two.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: When I moved to Basque Country,
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: I had a lot of moments where I was in therapy and thought about it could be good for
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: the two of us just because I was navigating a lot.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: So we've had our ups and downs in the last couple of years where we've had so much change.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: But I just knew in that New Year's Eve moment that this is it.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: This is the moment where we are not on the brink of divorce.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: We love each other.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: We want to be happy together.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: So this is the moment to tap into couples therapy.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: I found the right person, someone who is French but speaks very good English.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: And it was remote because she actually lives in Lyon.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: So it was really the perfect setup for us because we are a French and English speaking couple.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: And we did five sessions,
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: two of which you do individually,
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: me with her, Max with her, and then three that we did together.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: And our biggest learning was that we have to do the work.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: We have to be the ones to do the work.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: If we want to be happy, we have to fight for our happiness and communicate well.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, the therapist gave us frameworks and tips and exercises,
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: but But we are the ones who have to do the work.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I keep insisting that because when we have these images of couples therapy,
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: we see it very much as the therapist gives you the answer.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: And that is just not at all how therapy works.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: When you do couples therapy or individual therapy,
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: for that matter,
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: you talk through things,
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: but you're the one who still has to deal with yourself when
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: the therapist is no longer there.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: Having couples therapy...
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: Was really interesting because it actually showed us that there's a lot
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: that we're already doing very well.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: And how do we keep doing that?
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: For example, we leave each other notes.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's something that we did earlier in our relationship when we got back together
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: and we didn't live in the same city.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: But it's something that we kept.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: We leave each other sweet notes on podcasts.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: Post-its or even used to be in the refrigerator.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: That was my favorite where I'd come to Biarritz after a week in Paris,
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: open the refrigerator the next morning when Max was gone for work and there would be
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: a little note in there for me.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: And these notes can be like, have a great day.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: I've missed you or I'm so proud of you.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: We're rooting for you.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's just little bits of stuff.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: Love on a piece of paper and it feels so good to receive and it helps you feel seen
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: because when Max wrote me a note the first time I ever recorded
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: a podcasting episode I woke up at 6am and he left me
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: a little note saying You got this.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: We're so proud of you.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: This is so amazing.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: And it just felt so seen,
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: like it was such an acknowledgement on his part that what I was doing was brave.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: Something else that we do really well is date night.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: Even when we're tired, even if it's just to go for an hour, we do it.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: And we have grandparents coming and helping us sometimes,
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: and we still get a babysitter every now and then.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: That time together where there are no kids,
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: where it's just the two of us,
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: we're not in our house,
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: where we talk about logistics constantly,
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: that is essential for us and our relationship.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: We also have this Tuesday night weekly session which is kind of our us night
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: where we put the kids to bed and do something together that is related
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: to our future.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: It could be talking about What are our dreams?
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: It could be researching something we want to do together, maybe like a trip we want to take.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: Actually,
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: nowadays,
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: Tuesday nights are focused for me on thinking about my next full-time role
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: that I'm looking for, and it's part of our move.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: And even though Max is not kind of In that process,
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: because he has a fully remote job,
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: the fact that he is an active participant and doing something work-related next
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: to me while I'm thinking about what jobs I'm applying for, networking with people.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: So Tuesday is very much our us night.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sharing all this because it's really what has gotten me through
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: the really difficult times since I got laid off in December 2024.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: Max has really been my lifeline
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: and these moments together have shown me how important it is
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: that I preserve my relationship.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: My recommendation is basically just lean into the small gestures that kind
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: of remind each other of you.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: But don't let the career stuff be the only thing you talk about.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: Step outside of it.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: That is something I really needed.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: And he really yanked me out of it when he said,
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: hey, you can't walk around with stank face for a week and be absorbed by this.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: We still have to live.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: For listeners without a partner, I would say make sure you lean on friends or parents.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: Join communities.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: A support system really matters, especially in the AI era.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: Why do I say that?
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: Why is it so important?
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because we already spend so much time leaving voice notes to friends or
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: a text message instead of a conversation.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: When you're feeling super down and your confidence is low and you're dealing
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: with something difficult and ongoing that is forcing you to constantly think through
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: a different lens.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: What's a new angle I can approach this by?
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: Whether it's job loss or feeling stuck.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever it is that is really difficult to navigate.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Stepping out of it and talking to people physically or on the phone,
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: if you must, and not just, you know, ping ponging with AI.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, the kind of honest and unresolved thread throughout all of this has really been...
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: Remembering that I'm not alone is an ongoing lesson,
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: one that I will kind of have to go through probably many times.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a single breakthrough.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: I still have days where I wake up and I just want to walk around with stank face
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: and not explain myself.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: And that's really hard to unlearn.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: Even when you have a partner who is actively on your team, the work is still on me, not Max.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: That is my thing that I have to work through.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: So today, where are we with all of this?
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: The new year is actually almost approaching again.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: So it'll be interesting when we redo this exercise.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: But I think we're actually genuinely in a really good place.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: We did the five sessions with the therapist.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: And the funny thing is, I do think they had an impact.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: They made us realize how well we actually are doing.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: And They made us see the other person from a lens that I'm not sure we had before.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think Max became more empathetic than he was in the past to how I might
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: I
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: am more aware of how I communicate and the explosions that I have and how I need
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: to center what my issue is maybe before I use him as a punching bag.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: So that feels really good.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: And we don't feel like we need any more sessions.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: But it's definitely something I'm sure we will come back to.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: In fact,
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's something couples should do regularly,
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: maybe every five years, just to do a little pulse check.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: We also have kind of a real communication going.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: We're very aligned on our goals.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: Our trip to Amsterdam last summer was so helpful.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: Going there together and just really seeing super clearly
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: that we could see ourselves moving to a city.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: This is clearly the right next step for us.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: We also have this dream of someday owning a house in the north of France
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: in this specific part of Brittany that we've been to twice now and just love it.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: And we have kind of this clear plan.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm the one who might be actively searching for a job,
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: but Max is a really active participant with this Tuesday nights us session
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: where we kind of focus on anything related to our future.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: But the most important thing is that we know our relationship is fragile
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: during those moments where one of us is fragile.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: And by the way, that is completely normal.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: It just means our relationship requires special attention.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it makes complete sense when you are not 100%.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: How can you be 100%?
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: After all,
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: the job stuff will work itself out,
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: but I don't want my marriage to die in the interim.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I think for me,
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: it's also really about just knowing my priorities
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: and remembering what's truly important in life.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: And this really comes back to doing everything from a values-led perspective,
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: which is really how I like to function in life.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: Everything I do has to tie back to my values.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: And when I think about my values,
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: well, my family and my partner are definitely very much at the heart of that.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's just maybe being a little bit more self-aware as well.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: But we're in a good place.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: And that's something I feel really proud to say when I think about how we started this year.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to see photos from the different periods of my life that I talk about,
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: make sure you're subscribed to the Dots and Dreams podcast substack.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: I share them in the newsletter that goes out with each episode.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: You can even hit reply and tell me what's a difficult situation you went through
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: that impacted how you showed up in your relationship.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: How did you get through it?
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean any relationship.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: If you enjoyed listening to me and could rate
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: and review this episode wherever you're listening,
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: that will help others like you and I find this show.