Latest / Caught on the Mike... / MMA & MUAY THAI COACH- Sean Madden

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MMA & MUAY THAI COACH- Sean Madden · Caught on the Mike...

0:00
SPEAKER_00: Disclaimer The views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of any entities they represent.
0:11
SPEAKER_00: Listener description is advised.
1:08
SPEAKER_00: Trust me, friends, by the end of this, you'll be hyped too.
1:12
SPEAKER_00: Ladies and gentlemen, this is caught on the mic.
1:21
SPEAKER_00: Ladies and gentlemen, joining me is striking coach extraordinaire Sean Madden.
1:26
SPEAKER_00: Sean is the program director and head coach at Easton Mui Thai in Denver, Colorado.
1:32
SPEAKER_00: He has coached some of your favorite fighters, including Mallory Martin, Drew Dober, and Lauren Murphy.
1:38
SPEAKER_00: Sean, how the hell are you doing today?
1:40
SPEAKER_01: Third time to charm.
1:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm I'm great.
1:42
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me, man.
1:43
SPEAKER_01: Um, it's been a struggle uh to get on the podcast and then to make it work this morning, but uh we're gonna find a way.
1:50
SPEAKER_01: That's what we do.
1:51
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
1:52
SPEAKER_00: I think we even said that through uh Instagram where we were chatting back and forth.
1:56
SPEAKER_00: It's like we will find a way.
1:57
SPEAKER_00: That's what we do.
1:58
SPEAKER_00: We make things happen.
1:59
SPEAKER_01: Exactly right.
2:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we're we're even doing it this morning, like you said, third times a charm.
2:04
SPEAKER_01: But uh yeah, we're we're gonna make it work and I'm excited to chat.
2:07
SPEAKER_00: Dude, I'm excited to have you here.
2:09
SPEAKER_00: So without any further ado, why don't you introduce yourself and tell a little bit of history about how you got into Muay Thai and then how you also got into coaching?
2:19
SPEAKER_01: Sure, sure.
2:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so uh my yeah, my name's Sean Madden.
2:22
SPEAKER_01: Um, I've been training Muay Thai for about 15 years since 2008.
2:26
SPEAKER_01: Um I've and we'll talk about this later too, but you know, I'm in MMA as well, obviously, and I've been watching MMA uh for about 20 years now.
2:34
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I started training uh in 2008 on the West Coast in San Diego, just briefly before I moved back to Denver.
2:43
SPEAKER_01: Um I had been playing lacrosse in college for a couple semesters.
2:47
SPEAKER_01: Um when I transferred back to uh University of Boulder, I stopped playing lacrosse and I was kind of looking for something else to you know focus on and train in.
2:58
SPEAKER_01: I had kind of dipped my toe in kickboxing while I was in San Diego briefly, so I decided to look for a spot to do that in Boulder, and I found Easton.
3:07
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, and I started training at Easton in 2000, uh early 2009, and then uh the rest is history after that, you know, I've been with them ever since.
3:15
SPEAKER_00: That's fantastic.
3:16
SPEAKER_00: So, how did you find yourself in a position where you've just progressed from student to coach?
3:23
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you're always gonna be a student, there's always things to learn, but how have you progressed from student to coach?
3:29
SPEAKER_01: I think in the in the like the job sense, I I made that transition kind of when I was done fighting.
3:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I didn't necessarily get to finish fighting or stop fighting by choice.
3:40
SPEAKER_01: I had some injuries that prevented me from continuing to fight, unfortunately.
3:44
SPEAKER_01: Uh so my last fight was in 2016 for glory kickboxing.
3:49
SPEAKER_01: So it's been uh we're coming up on seven years now since my last fight.
3:52
SPEAKER_01: But, you know, I think it's the case for a lot of athletes uh at some point in their career, you know, you're doing some level of coaching on the side.
4:00
SPEAKER_01: I had always been teaching classes at Easton as a coach.
4:04
SPEAKER_01: And then I had some other athletes, some MMA athletes, ask me to give them some pad work on the side, you know, as a striking coach.
4:12
SPEAKER_01: And so I was kind of like juggling these two things while I was fighting, um, you know, and and and as with anything, right?
4:18
SPEAKER_01: If you want to be great at something, you know, something else is gonna have to give, you know.
4:23
SPEAKER_01: So um, in a way for me, it was also kind of a blessing.
4:26
SPEAKER_01: Um, the injuries that prevented me from fighting allowed me to pour all of that time and energy into coaching.
4:32
SPEAKER_01: And so I kind of made that full-time transition um in 2016 after my last fight.
4:38
SPEAKER_01: I had been coaching a couple years prior to that with some guys in the UFC, but I would say 2016 after my final fight, you know, I really decided we're probably gonna put fighting on the shelf for now.
4:49
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna focus on coaching.
4:50
SPEAKER_01: There's more people that could benefit from me helping them versus me just fighting.
4:56
SPEAKER_01: Um, and at the time that decision felt difficult, but now I know, you know, looking back, it was the right decision, and I'm really happy where with uh kind of where I'm at now.
5:04
SPEAKER_00: How do you compare the differences between being a fighter and being a coach and then kind of looking back at it in hindsight?
5:12
SPEAKER_01: In my mind, uh they're polar opposites.
5:14
SPEAKER_01: You know, uh being a fighter, you have to be totally selfish.
5:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, everything is about you.
5:19
SPEAKER_01: Um, the preparation is about you, the fight is about you.
5:23
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, you you you are the only one at the end of the day getting into the ring of the cage to compete.
5:28
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, you have a team around you, but um, you know, a lot of it falls on your shoulders.
5:32
SPEAKER_01: And then when you look at it on the other end as a coach, you're totally selfless, right?
5:36
SPEAKER_01: Everything you do is for the athletes.
5:38
SPEAKER_01: Um you know, you give everything you have to those guys uh in hopes that it's gonna be enough for them.
5:44
SPEAKER_01: Um so making that transition initially was pretty difficult because you're talking about two jobs at different ends of the spectrum, um, and you have to kind of make that transition from going from being a selfish athlete to a selfless coach.
5:57
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and to be honest, it took some time, you know.
5:59
SPEAKER_01: Uh it definitely took some time and and you know, uh a little bit of time to get used to.
6:04
SPEAKER_01: Uh, but it's an important transition, uh, and I'm glad that uh I was able to do it successfully.
6:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
6:10
SPEAKER_00: So is your ability to self-evaluate kind of changed as a result of making that transition?
6:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, a hundred percent.
6:20
SPEAKER_01: I think you know, you're just looking through a new lens now, um, being in this different role.
6:25
SPEAKER_01: Um, and uh yeah, I I I think so a hundred percent.
6:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, because I'm sure you also look at strategy a lot differently as well.
6:35
SPEAKER_00: Definitely, yeah.
6:36
SPEAKER_01: You know, uh prior, prior, it's like I'm looking at it through a lens of how can I beat this person or what my strengths are, right?
6:43
SPEAKER_01: And then as a coach, I'm you know, I try to have a little bit more of, you know, like that 30,000-foot approach of we're looking at what are my athletes' strengths, what are the other person's strengths, what are their weaknesses, uh, what are my athletes' weaknesses and shortcomings that we can work on with that.
6:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that it's just a it's you're just putting on a different set of uh glasses uh in this role, and uh it opens up kind of a whole new world with when you're looking at fights and strategy and everything involved.
7:11
SPEAKER_00: So let's talk a little bit about some of the talent that you've worked with over the years and kind of how they differentiate from one another.
7:20
SPEAKER_01: On the Muay Thai side or the MMA side, which which way do you want to go?
7:23
SPEAKER_00: Let's get into all of it, brother.
7:26
SPEAKER_01: Cool.
7:27
SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, let's let's let's start with uh let's start with MMA.
7:31
SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, I've had the pleasure of working with a lot of um fantastic people in this sport over the years.
7:37
SPEAKER_01: Corey Sanhagen and I kind of started together.
7:40
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, we trained alongside each other for you know 10 years or so, um, you know, and and he's out where he is now.
7:48
SPEAKER_01: You know, from day one, though, he was surpassed me.
7:51
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, and then everyone recognized that and and kind of where he was headed.
7:56
SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's been it was really cool to kind of you know play a play a small role in his journey uh and just kind of watch his progression through the years, you know.
8:04
SPEAKER_01: So I I was fortunate to, you know, play a couple different roles with him, you know, a teammate, a friend, uh a coach in a small aspect at one point in his career.
8:16
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, and uh Drew Dober, of course, like we talked about before, who's who's a phenomenal person and an athlete.
8:23
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I really, really love working with Drew Dober.
8:25
SPEAKER_01: I've had the chance to work with him a couple times.
8:27
SPEAKER_01: Uh Lauren Murphy, like you mentioned, you know, we're just getting started.
8:30
SPEAKER_01: We're on our second fight together.
8:32
SPEAKER_01: Mallory Martin, who is fantastic.
8:35
SPEAKER_01: Uh Shauna Dobson, uh Ultimate Fighter vet.
8:38
SPEAKER_01: She moved out here.
8:40
SPEAKER_01: Um, she's amazing too.
8:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, man, the list goes on.
8:43
SPEAKER_01: You know, I've I've it's just it's been really cool to work with so many different athletes, um, so many different backgrounds, so many different personalities.
8:50
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's something as a coach.
8:53
SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's what separates good coaches from great coaches.
8:56
SPEAKER_01: And I'm not saying I'm either of those necessarily, but something just that I've noticed, you know, in this industry is, you know, a great coach has the ability to work and tailor their their instruction to all of those different personalities, you know.
9:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think there will be commonalities in how you approach athletes, but uh a great coach can speak to all of those people individually.
9:18
SPEAKER_01: They know what gets them going, they know what brings them down, they know what keeps them on the even keel.
9:25
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, and that's something that I really strive to do with my athletes is um try to be able to speak to them individually and get to know them on an individual level so that you can really tap into that when you need it the most.
9:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think leadership and management in general runs a similar trajectory.
9:42
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I talk a lot about leading people in the workforce and how the workforce right now has six different generations all working at the same time, which is the first time in history it's ever happened.
9:54
SPEAKER_00: But each generation requires a different set of currency to get the most out of them.
9:59
SPEAKER_00: So I imagine fighters are very similar in a way, like they have a different set of currency.
10:05
SPEAKER_00: Obviously, the end goal is always to win, but how you churn up that win and like tap into that talent at its peak, it has to be different with each person.
10:18
SPEAKER_01: That's exactly right.
10:19
SPEAKER_01: You know, like you get a Roma of uh 10 fighters and they're they're a mixed bag, you know?
10:24
SPEAKER_01: And it's up to you as the coach and the leader to determine how each person responds best.
10:30
SPEAKER_01: You know, some people like uh getting hit on the head with the hammer and like do it this way, you're fucking up, you know, and there's other people that you have to take a little bit more of like a gentle and tactile approach with.
10:41
SPEAKER_01: And uh man, I would be lying if I said uh I've done that wrong uh with a lot of people.
10:46
SPEAKER_01: If I haven't done that wrong, you know, like it's yeah, and look, even individual fighters, you know, my guy Boyan Velichkovich, we've had 26 pro fights together over multiple different promotions.
10:58
SPEAKER_01: Even inside of those 26 fights, uh him as a person, he's changed over those years, right?
11:03
SPEAKER_01: And the way that he responds to instruction in the corner and instruction when we're training is different now than it was when he first started.
11:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, so when you have a relationship as long as uh, you know, you do with an athlete like Boyan, that relationship over time is gonna change too, the individual relationship.
11:20
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, um, I really love that part about coaching and leadership.
11:24
SPEAKER_01: Um I think it's a really unique challenge.
11:27
SPEAKER_01: And I think, like I said before, the great ones can really tap into that and identify who needs what and be able to give that to each individual athlete.
11:36
SPEAKER_01: Um, it's not easy.
11:37
SPEAKER_01: Uh, like I said, I'm I I don't claim to be good or great at it, but I am working on it and I'm aware of it.
11:43
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, and it's uh it's something that I enjoy to do uh every single day.
11:47
SPEAKER_00: You know, I don't want to overstate the obvious because we've talked about this a million times on other episodes of this podcast, whether it be with fighters or musicians or the different popoiry of guests that I have on, but there's so much of it that is psychological to where the psychological effect is almost as powerful, not as powerful, but almost as powerful as the physical aspect of it.
12:14
SPEAKER_00: How does training in a place like Denver or Colorado at large, which I know a lot of people go to because of the elevation and the advantages of elevation training, when there's so much talent all over the place, how does that affect somebody's psychological game when they're surrounded with that?
12:34
SPEAKER_01: That's a great question.
12:36
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I think it can work both ways, uh, and I've seen it work both ways, as a matter of fact.
12:41
SPEAKER_01: Uh, on one hand, uh, I think someone gets into a room over, like, for example, at Elevation Fight Team, and they see all those people training, uh, the Coreys, the Drews, the Gaichis, the Camaros, and they're like, man, I'm in the right place.
12:55
SPEAKER_01: You know, like these guys are here.
12:57
SPEAKER_01: I have the opportunity to train with them.
12:59
SPEAKER_01: I'm in the right place, I'm doing something right.
13:01
SPEAKER_01: And and just being in that room can give them a boost, you know.
13:05
SPEAKER_01: Right.
13:05
SPEAKER_01: Um, I've seen that rub work on people right when they when they get into the room, you know.
13:11
SPEAKER_01: On the other hand, when you get into those rounds and you start going with those guys and you're like, wow, there's there's levels and levels to this game, you know, I can I have seen it um, you know, kind of demoralize people and and be like, man, you know, I thought I was better than this.
13:28
SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, it it it kind of grounds them in reality for a minute, you know.
13:34
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think that's important too, you know.
13:35
SPEAKER_01: I think in the moment that can be perceived as kind of like a downside of that, but um in the bigger picture, it's a good thing.
13:43
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I think as long as the coach is there to offer perspective and, you know, kind of like I said before, that 30,000-foot view of like, look, man, Camaro uh was the champion and is uh, you know, chasing the, you know, he's fighting for the belt again.
13:57
SPEAKER_01: Gecy, um, former contender, like these guys are literally at the top of the sport.
14:03
SPEAKER_01: What other sport do you get to go practice with the best of the best in the same room, right?
14:08
SPEAKER_01: Like you could never just go to the NFL uh and go over to the Broncos and say, Hey, can I practice with you guys on Saturday?
14:14
SPEAKER_01: It just doesn't happen, right?
14:16
SPEAKER_01: Um so I think is you know, you have to give these guys just some perspective and say, hey, look, you have the opportunity to work with these guys.
14:23
SPEAKER_01: Of course they're gonna be better than you.
14:25
SPEAKER_01: Um, but every time you work with them, you're gonna take something from that and get a little bit better.
14:30
SPEAKER_01: So I think as long as the perspective is there for those athletes, it becomes kind of like a net positive for them.
14:35
SPEAKER_01: Um but I have seen it definitely times in the past where it can discourage people of like, man, this is this is a lot.
14:41
SPEAKER_01: I thought I was better than I'm, you know, what's happening right now, uh, so on and so forth.
14:46
SPEAKER_00: So let's switch gears a little bit and let's take the mixed out of mixed martial arts and let's just talk about martial arts for a little bit.
14:55
SPEAKER_00: Because your discipline and your strength is in Mui Thai.
14:59
SPEAKER_00: What has Mui Thai added to your life that wasn't there before you took it up?
15:06
SPEAKER_01: Oh man, that's a great question.
15:08
SPEAKER_01: Uh, everything really, at you know, like if I want to just uh make it simple, but you know, uh like I said before, I I played I played the cross.
15:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, this is uh kind of like a different uh take a quick segue, but I worked at a golf course in high school uh for a couple years, and I ended up just naturally playing golf because I I basically lived at the golf course that I was working at.
15:31
SPEAKER_01: Um so I ended up playing golf for a while too.
15:33
SPEAKER_01: I played soccer in high school.
15:34
SPEAKER_01: I played other sports, but um, you know, um two of those being team sports, one being an individual sport.
15:41
SPEAKER_01: I never really got uh full fulfillment from any of those, you know.
15:47
SPEAKER_01: Um they were tough, of course.
15:48
SPEAKER_01: Don't get me wrong.
15:49
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to say that those sports aren't tough uh in their own respective right, uh, but I just felt like I needed something else.
15:55
SPEAKER_01: Moitz Thai gave me, man, discipline.
15:59
SPEAKER_01: It gave me a massive challenge, it continues to challenge me to this day.
16:02
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, it forces, it pushed, pushed me to my limits.
16:06
SPEAKER_01: Um, it made me do things that I never thought I was probably capable of at the time.
16:10
SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, man, it it's given me everything that I've wanted in life so far.
16:16
SPEAKER_01: And and to be honest, you know, just when we talk about the martial arts side of things and when I teach classes and I'm an instructor, this is something that's always on the forefront of my mind is I want to be able to give all of my students the opportunity to have all the things that I got from Muay Thai too, right?
16:32
SPEAKER_01: Like it's you know, it's not my sport at the end of the day, but I've been fortunate enough to train and study in this sport for 15 years.
16:39
SPEAKER_01: I want to be able to give them the same gift that I got when I first started because I know how valuable training Muay Thai is to my life and what it's added to my life.
16:47
SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, you know, like I said, the short of it is everything.
16:50
SPEAKER_01: It's given me literally everything in my life up to this point.
16:53
SPEAKER_01: Um, I owe it so much, and I want to be able to give it back to as many people as possible.
16:57
SPEAKER_00: That's phenomenal.
16:58
SPEAKER_00: What is it about martial arts?
17:01
SPEAKER_00: And I think you already covered it, but like if we were to whittle it down and be more specific, what is it about martial arts and individual martial arts that people become obsessed?
17:12
SPEAKER_00: They have that moment where something snaps in their head and then they become obsessive over it.
17:18
SPEAKER_01: That's a great question.
17:19
SPEAKER_01: Um, at least in my experience, in my opinion, I think it's it's it's the ability, like you said, it's the individual and it's really it's up to you.
17:28
SPEAKER_01: You know, you can go as far as you want to go with the sport, with the art, um, without even ever having to fight.
17:35
SPEAKER_01: You can be a lifelong student of of whatever martial art that you decide.
17:39
SPEAKER_01: And because it's not a team sport, because it's you doing it day in and day out, you get to dictate how far that you want to go.
17:46
SPEAKER_01: And um, I think at a certain point when people kind of realize that and tap into that, um, like you said, it can become an obsession for people.
17:54
SPEAKER_01: Um, and they really work on starting to hone their craft and fine-tune their craft and understand that man, there's just so much to all of these martial arts.
18:03
SPEAKER_01: It really is a lifelong pursuit.
18:05
SPEAKER_01: Um even for me, 15 years is is a very small amount of time inside of this sport.
18:12
SPEAKER_01: Um, there's so much more to learn.
18:13
SPEAKER_01: There's so many more people to meet in this game, to learn from.
18:17
SPEAKER_01: Uh, all of that stuff is just so cool to me.
18:21
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, along along the lines of your question, I think that's what people realize.
18:25
SPEAKER_01: And it's you can take this as far as you want.
18:27
SPEAKER_01: Um, you can fight, you cannot fight.
18:30
SPEAKER_01: Uh, you could be involved in the sport in so many different ways.
18:32
SPEAKER_01: You could be involved in the martial arts business side of things in so many different ways.
18:36
SPEAKER_01: Uh, it's yeah, I mean, it's it's awesome.
18:39
SPEAKER_01: It's awesome.
18:39
SPEAKER_01: And um, it's yeah, I think that's what people have realized.
18:43
SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, I I just wonder, because I know it's subjective and it's different from person to person, but do you notice a common inflection point in students where they either like you know that they had something's clicked and they're gonna kind of level up, or I hate to say it, or start to walk or decline.
19:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
19:05
SPEAKER_01: Um I would say it's I would say it's anywhere from a year to a year and a half in, you know.
19:12
SPEAKER_01: Um I think before that time, you don't really know enough to make any type of educated decision on like uh I'm good at this or I'm not good at this, you're not good at it at that point, you know, regardless of your talent level.
19:24
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think after like a year or year and a half of consistent training, I think people start to make a decision of like, you know, I I I'm gonna pursue this, I can stick with this, or it's like, eh, you know, like I'm I'm gonna, I feel like I've reached a ceiling with it and I'm gonna kind of, you know, kind of start to taper off with it.
19:42
SPEAKER_01: So in my experience, I feel like around that time frame, and at least for how we do things at Easton, you know, people start sparring pretty regularly around that time, and and you figure out in sparring of like, you know, I'm I can be competitive with this or I can't be, uh, or I'm not really interested in sparring.
19:59
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I I've kind of reached my ceiling with this, and I'm and I'm good for now, you know.
20:04
SPEAKER_01: So um, I would say that's about the time frame that I find.
20:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so Mui Thai in particular, I would say has had two to three different renaissances where it's like made the comeback.
20:16
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, all joking aside, and I'm dead serious, like when Jean-Claude Van Damme got famous for kickboxer in the late 80s, 80s, early 90s, interest for Mui Thai spiked.
20:29
SPEAKER_00: And it feels like in the past two to three years, maybe four years, it's started to spike again.
20:37
SPEAKER_00: I I know Adasanya has a little bit to do with that, but why else is there a renewed interest in Mui Thai recently?
20:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, I I think a big part of it is that we're starting to see kind of this shift of rule set in Muay Thai.
20:55
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, what we had prior is like what I would consider traditional stadium Muay Thai in Thailand, five rounds, gambling, so on and so forth.
21:04
SPEAKER_01: And and then you had MMA, but now what you're starting to see, you know, and with the help of like one championship, you're starting to see this kind of hybrid rule set where you're all of a sudden you're seeing Muay Thai fighters in four-rounce gloves and MMA gloves, right?
21:17
SPEAKER_01: And you're seeing three-round fights instead of five-round fights, and you're starting to get, you know, in in the Muay Thai industry, what they call now uh entertainment muay thai, right?
21:25
SPEAKER_01: So there's these different branches now, traditional muay thai entertainment.
21:29
SPEAKER_01: This this new sector of entertainment muay thai is aimed at trying to capture a Western audience and really trying to capture, you know, you and I both know there's there's the the MMA fans that say, oh, you know, when they go to the ground, it's boring, right?
21:44
SPEAKER_01: They want to see just the striking.
21:46
SPEAKER_01: And and now there's one championship saying, hey, we have a solution to that.
21:49
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna put four ounce gloves on these guys, so it looks like MMA, right?
21:52
SPEAKER_01: But these are some of the best strikers in the world, right?
21:55
SPEAKER_01: And it's gonna be under the Muay Thai rule set.
21:57
SPEAKER_01: So there's promotions that are Changing the format and the aesthetic of the sport, um, you know, to kind of help try to capture some of that MMA audience.
22:09
SPEAKER_01: And I think it's working to some degree.
22:12
SPEAKER_01: Um uh I I I like it for what it is, and I I do think that it's reaching a wider audience.
22:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, and look, man, at the end of the day, uh the only constant is change, right?
22:23
SPEAKER_01: Things are always gonna change.
22:24
SPEAKER_01: Um, this is the way that it's gonna go.
22:26
SPEAKER_01: A good coach can adapt to the rule set and whatever is in front of them and still make their athletes successful.
22:33
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I say this because, you know, of course, on the other side, there's a lot of pushback from you know some traditionalists in the Muay Thai community um of this is not real muay thai.
22:43
SPEAKER_01: And you know what, you're right, it's not.
22:45
SPEAKER_01: Um, but it is a form of Muay Thai and it's what's happening right now.
22:49
SPEAKER_01: Um, and you can either get on board or you can't.
22:51
SPEAKER_01: It's up to you, you know.
22:53
SPEAKER_01: Um, the way that I look at it is since I am in both realms of MMA and Muay Thai, it's cool for me uh to be able to have uh, you know, some level of of a like a hybrid sport in between those two.
23:06
SPEAKER_01: Um it makes my job easier to, you know, to kind of have an overlap between them.
23:11
SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, man, I I love it.
23:13
SPEAKER_01: The more people that we can get involved watching MMA or Muay Thai, I'm all for it.
23:19
SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm all for it.
23:20
SPEAKER_01: Um you and I both know uh how much we love watching these sports and what the fighters do in in these arenas.
23:27
SPEAKER_01: I want everyone to watch all the fights.
23:29
SPEAKER_01: So whatever way that we can do that um that's reasonable, I'm all for it.
23:34
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes you have to let something evolve in order for it to survive.
23:39
SPEAKER_00: You know, if you want Mui Thai to get passed down to future generations, it's gonna have to evolve as society evolves.
23:46
SPEAKER_01: That's exactly right.
23:46
SPEAKER_01: And you know, we've we've we've seen that in Thailand.
23:49
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, in the physical stadiums, uh Lumpani and Raja, you know, they've lost a lot of um, you know, the gamblers and people actually physically present in the stadiums.
24:00
SPEAKER_01: They're losing people spectating the fights there.
24:03
SPEAKER_01: They've had to find other ways, you know.
24:05
SPEAKER_01: A lot of these, a lot of those traditional um promotions, they've had live streams now where they're where the you know, like America is getting access to them, Europe is getting access to them, and they're having crazy numbers of people watching them.
24:18
SPEAKER_01: Um that alone, right there, is the evolution, right?
24:20
SPEAKER_01: The gamblers in the stadiums are not enough to have these promotions survive.
24:25
SPEAKER_01: They have to look elsewhere, they have to reach a new audience, they have to continue to evolve, like you said.
24:30
SPEAKER_01: Uh I I love to see it.
24:32
SPEAKER_01: Like I said, change is happening, it's always gonna happen, and you can either adapt and continue to survive or or you can die off.
24:39
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, the choice is yours.
24:41
SPEAKER_00: So let's talk a little bit about Sean Madden the man.
24:44
SPEAKER_00: Uh, so you started off as a finance major in college?
24:49
SPEAKER_00: I did, yeah.
24:50
SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, that's uh that I have that uh certificate up here somewhere on the wall, just collecting dust.
24:56
SPEAKER_01: Um sorry, sorry, mom and dad, about that one.
24:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that that that hasn't done a whole lot for me.
25:01
SPEAKER_01: You know, I think with everyone, I learned a lot in college, uh less so in the classroom um than I did uh you know outside of the classroom.
25:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, it was an I would say it was an important part of my life.
25:13
SPEAKER_01: Um I always say going back, if I had to do it again, I wouldn't have gone to college at that time in my life.
25:19
SPEAKER_01: I probably would have done it later.
25:20
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, uh at least if I wanted to get my money's worth.
25:24
SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, I learned some valuable things.
25:27
SPEAKER_01: And um, like I said, you know, it was around the time when I had started training as well, too.
25:33
SPEAKER_01: So that was kind of like an important crossroad in my life of like finding martial arts at this time, but also going through the college experience, um, you know, and that definitely set me on a certain trajectory and path in life, you know.
25:45
SPEAKER_01: So I'm definitely grateful for that experience.
25:47
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I think we send kids off to college almost a little bit too soon, you know, yes, before their prefrontal cortex is fully developed and they can like understand good decision making versus bad.
26:00
SPEAKER_00: You almost need to start sending kids to college when they're 23 so they can get that 21-year-old rush out of their system.
26:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
26:08
SPEAKER_01: I look back at it now, you know, like I'm I'm 34 now.
26:11
SPEAKER_01: I'm not, I'm, you know, I'm not old, but I'm not 20 or 18 anymore.
26:16
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, man, I did not know anything at 18.
26:19
SPEAKER_01: That's fucking crazy that I'm allowed to go to a university and make a decision about the rest of my life.
26:25
SPEAKER_01: I don't know any, I don't know how to tie my fucking shoes at that point.
26:27
SPEAKER_01: Like, right, it's crazy.
26:29
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah.
26:30
SPEAKER_01: So like I said, man, yeah, I would I would have waited 23, 25, at least till I knew a little bit more about what was going on in the world and then make a more informed decision.
26:39
SPEAKER_01: But uh, you know, I I don't regret it.
26:42
SPEAKER_01: Um it's got me to where I am today.
26:44
SPEAKER_01: But if I had the opportunity to go back and do it again, I would wait a little bit longer and get a little bit more life experience first.
26:50
SPEAKER_00: But then again, you shouldn't regret it.
26:52
SPEAKER_00: Like, think about it from think about it from this point of view.
26:55
SPEAKER_00: Like, our best lessons in life are learned from failing forward, right?
27:01
SPEAKER_00: Like, it's it's all the mistakes that we've made, and we're like, fuck, okay, I fucked up here, but I can do this better later on down the line.
27:09
SPEAKER_00: So the same thing applies whenever you're coaching a fighter, you know, that it's like, okay, we learn from our biggest mistakes.
27:16
SPEAKER_00: So it maybe there's nothing worth regretting, right?
27:21
SPEAKER_01: And you know what?
27:21
SPEAKER_01: I agree with that a hundred percent.
27:23
SPEAKER_01: I really do my best to try to avoid using that word or saying I regret anything.
27:27
SPEAKER_01: Um, because like you said, there's a lesson that came from all of that and it led us to where we are now.
27:32
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, so as long as you learn the lesson and you're aware of what happened and we do our best to change moving forward, it it's all good.
27:40
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's all good.
27:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because there's people that'll post things like you get on Facebook, somebody puts up a status and they're like, So if you could go back and talk to your 18-year-old self, what would you tell them?
27:51
SPEAKER_00: And I I typically say, I say absolutely fucking nothing, because it would change all the coolest shit that I've done is a result of me screwing up.
28:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just let them learn.
28:03
SPEAKER_00: Let them learn, right?
28:05
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
28:06
SPEAKER_00: So you you have a few siblings then too, don't you?
28:09
SPEAKER_00: I do, yeah.
28:10
SPEAKER_00: I have a brother and a sister.
28:11
SPEAKER_01: So are are they involved in martial arts at all?
28:15
SPEAKER_01: Uh my brother was for a time.
28:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, he he's five years younger than me.
28:19
SPEAKER_01: Um he actually got his blue belt through Easton.
28:22
SPEAKER_01: There was a time when he was living in Denver, and he actually lived with uh me.
28:25
SPEAKER_01: And and at the time, my my roommate Peter Straub, who's the GM at Easton Centennial now, he's the man.
28:32
SPEAKER_01: Um, but uh my brother lived with us when he lived up here in Denver.
28:36
SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, one of our rules for him was that you have to train jujitsu three times a week if you want to live with us.
28:42
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, and at that time he was young, you know, I think he was maybe 18 or something, you know.
28:47
SPEAKER_01: Um and he did, and he got his blue belt.
28:50
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, he moved back to the springs at some point after that, and you know, he's kind of been busy with work and life and stuff, so I don't think he's training as much.
28:57
SPEAKER_01: But um, I know regardless of whether he trains or not, still um that time in his life was formative, and and to get a blue belt, you know, he even that is still an achievement.
29:07
SPEAKER_01: So uh, you know, I'm glad that we're able to influence him in some way to train a little bit.
29:13
SPEAKER_00: And you said you have a sister as well?
29:15
SPEAKER_01: I have a sister, yep.
29:16
SPEAKER_01: She's out in LA.
29:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, she's she's never done martial arts, she's the total opposite.
29:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, look, all three of us are adopted.
29:23
SPEAKER_01: So we we we come from a, you know, we all have totally different backgrounds, different interests, stuff like that, uh, which is really cool, you know.
29:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
29:31
SPEAKER_01: Um but uh yeah, she she has zero interest whatsoever in any martial arts.
29:36
SPEAKER_01: I uh she couldn't care at all about anything related to that.
29:40
SPEAKER_00: So what's funny about that is so I I have a son and a daughter, they're both teenagers.
29:46
SPEAKER_00: My son has been like all through it, he's all in it.
29:49
SPEAKER_00: He's they do taekwondo, and he like he tries and he tries and he tries, and he does pretty well.
29:55
SPEAKER_00: His sister could give a shit less, but she does it, and she's a fucking natural, like to go because she's tall, she's lanky, she can manage distance, she's smart enough to manage distance.
30:07
SPEAKER_00: It's like she knows that if she gets one kick off, she can get another one off really quick.
30:11
SPEAKER_00: She's always getting gold medals, and she's like, I don't want to do this.
30:15
SPEAKER_00: Like, are you fucking kidding me?
30:18
SPEAKER_00: You're naturally awful.
30:20
SPEAKER_00: Why don't you want to do it?
30:21
SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, it is it is the craziest construct to watch as a parent.
30:26
SPEAKER_00: It's like, God, one of you is like, uh, I'm all right.
30:30
SPEAKER_00: I don't care if I get a bronze or if I get a silver or if I don't even place, and the other one's just churning out, churning out golds and is like, I don't even want to fucking do this.
30:39
SPEAKER_01: So that is hilarious.
30:41
SPEAKER_01: That's how it goes, right?
30:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
30:44
SPEAKER_00: I forgot that you were from Colorado Springs.
30:47
SPEAKER_00: What was it like growing up there?
30:49
SPEAKER_01: Oh man, not great.
30:51
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, it's uh I always said, and uh I think Colorado Springs, at least at the time, it's it's better for people who are older.
31:02
SPEAKER_01: Um, it's it's not a great place to grow up.
31:05
SPEAKER_01: Um just in my my experience, my opinion.
31:08
SPEAKER_01: Like I said, I I worked at a golf course that was close by the house.
31:11
SPEAKER_01: I spent a lot of time there.
31:13
SPEAKER_01: Um I got into a lot of trouble as a kid growing up too.
31:16
SPEAKER_01: I got kicked out of high school my freshman year for fighting, you know.
31:20
SPEAKER_01: Um, I went through it all.
31:21
SPEAKER_01: You know, I went to a Catholic school.
31:23
SPEAKER_01: Um, I did not fit in very well there uh with with that demographic.
31:28
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, so you know, same thing, formative stuff, I think.
31:33
SPEAKER_01: You know, I I picked up a lot of life lessons along the way uh in Colorado Springs and with the group that I hung out with.
31:38
SPEAKER_01: So I don't regret any of it.
31:40
SPEAKER_01: Um, but uh yeah, it's you know, it is what it is.
31:44
SPEAKER_00: It's crazy because going through this podcast and you know, my time in the music industry and other stuff that I did, I a commonality that I find is a lot of us that were challenged in our teenage years have become great leaders as adults.
32:00
SPEAKER_00: Like I was out on my own when I was 16 years old.
32:03
SPEAKER_00: I was living by myself, supporting myself, going to school, working full-time, doing extracurricular activities.
32:10
SPEAKER_00: And I look back now and I'm like, how the fuck did I do that?
32:15
SPEAKER_00: But but again, it's kind of going to that earlier point.
32:18
SPEAKER_00: It's like it's failing forward.
32:19
SPEAKER_00: It's like I did that because I had to do that.
32:22
SPEAKER_00: And I and I think that's one thing where as a society, I think we got to give a little bit more levity to kids when they are challenged as teenagers.
32:34
SPEAKER_00: They just need a little bit of guidance and maybe nudged in the right direction, and uh, they too can become leaders themselves.
32:40
SPEAKER_01: A hundred percent.
32:41
SPEAKER_01: The potential is there for sure, you know, uh, regardless of the circumstances.
32:45
SPEAKER_01: And I agree with you.
32:46
SPEAKER_01: I think that's a great point.
32:47
SPEAKER_01: You know, I think you have to look just beyond the circumstances and the moment and and look at the potential that that can come from that too, you know.
32:54
SPEAKER_01: Man, guys like that for me too, just selfishly as a coach, those are the guys that you want in the gym, you know.
33:00
SPEAKER_01: Um, I know that those guys have a point to prove.
33:02
SPEAKER_01: Um, I know those guys have survived some tough things in life already, and and and them, you know, taking some licks in the gym is not gonna affect them that much, you know.
33:12
SPEAKER_01: Like um, they're used to being beat down and and you know, uh drawing the short straw.
33:17
SPEAKER_01: Like those guys are fighters, man.
33:19
SPEAKER_01: Those are guys, those guys are fighters in life, and and those are the guys that you want in the gym.
33:23
SPEAKER_01: You know, I don't I don't want um the the selfish entitled, you know, teenagers that life is easy for them because those guys are gonna fold in the gym.
33:33
SPEAKER_01: You know, I I want the guys that are that you know life is up against them and teaching them hard lessons early.
33:38
SPEAKER_01: Like those guys are gonna be the champs for sure.
33:40
SPEAKER_00: What are some of your hobbies outside of this whole fight game?
33:47
SPEAKER_01: Um, I get this question a lot, and uh the answer is uh I don't have any.
33:53
SPEAKER_01: Um I I don't.
33:56
SPEAKER_01: Um and you know, I used to be like kind of embarrassed to say that, uh, but any I'm not anymore, man.
34:02
SPEAKER_01: This this is my life.
34:03
SPEAKER_01: Um I'm literally I'm I'm obsessed with this.
34:07
SPEAKER_01: Um, sometimes to my detriment, you know, uh my girlfriend will definitely agree with that statement.
34:12
SPEAKER_01: And you know, I I do my best now, like we're in a we've been in a long-term relationship, like, and that's taught me a lot too, right?
34:19
SPEAKER_01: Like, hey, look, there's more to life than yourself, dummy, right?
34:22
SPEAKER_01: Like, if you if you commit to a relationship, you have to make sure you have time for these other people that care about you too.
34:28
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, so these last couple of years I've really spent trying to balance that.
34:32
SPEAKER_01: But, you know, prior to that, you know, I'm traveling all the time.
34:35
SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm what when I'm not at the gym, I'm watching fights at home.
34:39
SPEAKER_01: I'm watching every single event.
34:41
SPEAKER_01: Um, I get up in the morning and I film study and I watch fights.
34:45
SPEAKER_01: Um, it's literally everything I do.
34:47
SPEAKER_01: I don't go skiing, I don't go outs, you know, I don't go camping.
34:50
SPEAKER_01: I don't, I don't, I literally don't have any other hobbies.
34:53
SPEAKER_01: This is it.
34:54
SPEAKER_01: I'm at Easton or I'm at home, I'm watching fights, I'm doing something involved in fights.
34:59
SPEAKER_01: Uh I just can't get enough of it.
35:01
SPEAKER_01: Um and and a lot of it, obviously I'm passionate about it.
35:06
SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, I'm relatively speaking in in this industry, I'm I'm one of the younger coaches in MMA.
35:13
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, when you look at like the Knicks or the Henry Hoofs or the Tyson Chardiers or or even Elliot Marshall, you know, all of the Cody Donovan, those guys are in like their their 40s.
35:23
SPEAKER_01: Uh I'm a decade behind them.
35:25
SPEAKER_01: And so for me to not spend time working on my craft and studying, you know, I feel like that gap gets further and further if I'm not doing that stuff.
35:34
SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, so for me to cut my teeth and be in this industry and and and make sure that I'm doing my athletes right, I I'm on this 24-7.
35:44
SPEAKER_01: Um, and and like I said, I love it, so it makes it easy.
35:48
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I literally I do not have any other hobbies.
35:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:51
SPEAKER_00: Oh man, that's great.
35:52
SPEAKER_00: Because whenever your passion becomes your career, it ceases to be a job.
35:58
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
35:59
SPEAKER_00: It's just your passion, and it's just your life.
36:02
SPEAKER_00: And I absolutely love that mindset.
36:05
SPEAKER_00: So, what do you have coming up in the not too distant future?
36:09
SPEAKER_01: Uh, we got a we we got a pretty good stretch coming up.
36:12
SPEAKER_01: Um, tomorrow we have the Colorado State Muay Thai tournament down in Castle Rock.
36:16
SPEAKER_01: So we have seven of our Eastern athletes fighting in that, all of our amateur guys, um, but all of them have a couple people in their brackets.
36:24
SPEAKER_01: So we're looking at like 12 to 16 fights tomorrow if everyone wins their brackets.
36:29
SPEAKER_01: Uh, that's a one-day event.
36:31
SPEAKER_01: So that that's gonna be a grind tomorrow.
36:33
SPEAKER_01: Um, all of those guys are heading down to weigh-ins right now as we speak.
36:37
SPEAKER_01: Um, once that is over, Monday I leave for Czech Republic.
36:40
SPEAKER_01: Uh my guy Boyan Veliczkevich, he's in the the Octagon MMA welterweight 16-man tournament.
36:46
SPEAKER_01: So they're doing um, they just rolled this out.
36:49
SPEAKER_01: First tournament they've done.
36:50
SPEAKER_01: Uh the prize money is a million euro um combined in the tournament, which is fantastic.
36:55
SPEAKER_01: You know, this tournament thing is it's not new in MMA, but you've you right, you've seen you know, PFL and things are started to kind of pop up with this format.
37:04
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
37:04
SPEAKER_01: Um, it keeps the athletes active.
37:06
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, that money is great for them.
37:08
SPEAKER_01: And to see that kind of money outside of the UFC, um, you know, especially in Europe, is awesome, man.
37:15
SPEAKER_01: You know, so you know, this this is fantastic for everyone.
37:19
SPEAKER_01: Um, so he's got the first round of the tournament Saturday, March 4th, over in Ostrova, Czech Republic.
37:24
SPEAKER_01: Uh, so I leave Monday for that.
37:27
SPEAKER_01: I get back the following day, and then we go right into the team USA uh qualifier tournament, the Muay Thai tournament.
37:34
SPEAKER_01: So that is in our backyard here in Lakewood, Colorado.
37:37
SPEAKER_01: That is a pro-am tournament, uh, which is awesome because there's not many uh commissions in the United States that sanction pro-am events, uh, but Colorado is one of them.
37:47
SPEAKER_01: Um and the winners of those brackets at that tournament uh receive their spot on Team USA, and they will go fight in Bangkok in May at the IFMA World Championships.
37:58
SPEAKER_01: Um I have uh four athletes in that right now.
38:02
SPEAKER_01: Um so when we get back, uh yeah, right back to work with those guys.
38:05
SPEAKER_01: Uh and hopefully, you know, we put a couple people on Team USA this year.
38:09
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, three three weekends, three events, back to back to back.
38:12
SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be a good stretch here.
38:14
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
38:14
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
38:15
SPEAKER_00: And so I hate to put you on the spot, but uh are are we hoping to get a little extra coaching with Mr.
38:22
SPEAKER_00: Dober here in the near future so he can silence a certain hype train?
38:30
SPEAKER_01: You know, I saw I saw him uh last week at the gym, uh maybe last Thursday night, um, you know, and and he seemed to be kind of I I don't want to say frustrated, but you know, he he's been sticking his hand up uh and looking for multiple dance partners, and for whatever reason, um, you know, nothing is kind of coming through right now.
38:50
SPEAKER_01: Um, I know he said that him and uh RDA both agreed to fight.
38:55
SPEAKER_01: The UFC said that doesn't make sense.
38:57
SPEAKER_01: We're not gonna do that.
38:58
SPEAKER_01: Um from what I understand, I think Patty just had surgery.
39:02
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, so that's gonna put him out until later this year.
39:06
SPEAKER_01: Um he was a little bit confused about that too.
39:08
SPEAKER_01: You know, he saw some of those posts surface and the internet went crazy over that.
39:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:13
SPEAKER_01: Um it's not a good fight for Patty.
39:17
SPEAKER_01: Um even if he's healthy, he's not taking that fight.
39:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, so I I would love Drew to get that fight.
39:24
SPEAKER_01: I don't think it's gonna happen.
39:26
SPEAKER_01: Um, and he said he was pushing for maybe Hanato Moicano on the uh Miami card or the Kansas City card.
39:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:35
SPEAKER_01: Man, that's a that is a very fan-friendly fight.
39:38
SPEAKER_01: Um, Moicano obviously has a little bit of hype and momentum going right now.
39:42
SPEAKER_01: I would love for Drew to steal that momentum.
39:45
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think that would be a fantastic matchup.
39:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Kansas City is only a two and a half hour drive for me.
39:51
SPEAKER_00: I would love that to happen.
39:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that that would be a great, you know, co-main event uh fight on that card.
39:59
SPEAKER_01: I think that would be amazing.
40:00
SPEAKER_00: Dude, this has been an awesome conversation.
40:04
SPEAKER_00: I'm glad we finally got to connect.
40:06
SPEAKER_00: Man, the world's a better place with you in it for sure.
40:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I appreciate that, man.
40:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this has been fantastic.
40:11
SPEAKER_01: Uh, like I said, I'm an open book.
40:13
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, the the difficulty is always the schedule, but if we can work around that and we can find time, man, I I always love chatting.
40:20
SPEAKER_01: I enjoy these.
40:21
SPEAKER_00: We need to maybe make a little bit of a routine of this.
40:24
SPEAKER_01: That'd be fun.
40:25
SPEAKER_01: That'd be awesome.
40:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
40:27
SPEAKER_01: Like I like I said, man, this is my life.
40:29
SPEAKER_01: This fighting is my life.
40:30
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I'm I'm always down to talk about fighting.
40:33
SPEAKER_01: So uh, yeah, we can figure something out for sure.
40:35
SPEAKER_00: Sean Madden, thanks for doing the show, buddy.
40:38
SPEAKER_01: My pleasure, man.
40:38
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me on, and we'll do it again soon for sure.
40:41
SPEAKER_00: Every now and again you have these conversations that when they're over, you want to run through the wall like you're the Kool-Aid man.
40:50
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's what a good coach does.
40:54
SPEAKER_00: I want to thank my friend Sean Madden for doing the show again.
40:58
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I hope we can have a future.