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The Future of European Payments · EU-Startups Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: You are now listening to the EU Startups podcast.
• 0:13
  Speaker 0: Hello and welcome to this episode of The EU Startup Podcast, as always I'm your host David Sanongarcia, the editor at EU startups.
• 0:20
  Speaker 0: today chat with Lina.
• 0:22
  Speaker 0: she's the CEO and co-founder Of the payments platform Bright Payments.
• 0:27
  Speaker 0: Now some you may have heard a bright payment since been around Since twenty nineteen.
• 0:31
  Speaker 0: they're from Sweden And in fact it's Lena second time on the Eustarps podcast before she chatted with uh, The previous host Martian Lewandowski shortly after their fundraise.
• 0:43
  Speaker 0: Lina and I were able to chat over the history of Bright how she sees the general fintech sector in Europe overall How she feels the push for European sovereignty would be benefited by wider payments platform And her overall position within the female led entrepreneurship sector female-led initiatives are doing and what can be done to push it forward.
• 1:09
  Speaker 0: So I hope you're looking forward the previous episode, so I'm going to try and maybe add a few different elements.
• 1:34
  Speaker 0: And may be kind of touch on how you've grown... How Bright has grown since.
• 1:39
  Speaker 0: but before we get into that i think it's important just give your chance here to present yourself in your company and what you do?
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: Absolutely!
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: So my name is Lena Hakulea, founder and CEO at Bright Payments.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: Bright is leader in European pay-by-bank payments considered to be a counter-account payments across Europe, twenty seven markets.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: We're headquartered in Sweden and Stockholm with offices across Europe.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: we have a large office in Malaga and Spain and London in Malta in Germany.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: so were quite spread out.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: And me myself personally I've had background in fintech.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: i've been on payments for the past fifteen years little bit more maybe now even sixteen many many years in China when it was in its hyper growth phase an amazing time of my career.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: And then later on a clear financial services, which is slightly different stock listed.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: Basically DMPL provider here in the Nordics.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: and then I started bright in two thousand
• 2:39
  Speaker 0: nineteen great well than as i just mentioned you were on your two years ago.
• 2:43
  Speaker 0: now that kind of i think naturally leads to how you feel Bright has kind of changed in that time.
• 2:50
  Speaker 0: You know, I mean we at Eustarps we continuously hear about Bright.
• 2:54
  Speaker 0: it's not and i think even people outside what is the startup ecosystem are very aware with what Bright is.
• 3:01
  Speaker 0: so just to maybe have a quick run down on what past two years been like for your company?
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: It was super exciting dear for us actually when we last spoke after we had raised our series A which was a really large series A sort of in twenty-twenty three, just the previous year.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: And we then began expanding across Europe quite aggressively but rapidly I would say so.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: we launched some of Europe's largest markets and Germany and France.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: We have even more markets coming now.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: So many ways.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: it has been that period growth for us as business But also an organization And I think we have grown up as a company from startup to scale-up.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: Perhaps, so would say it still wouldn't consider us to be obviously like mature business and tech company.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: that's growing?
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: Also the market around has shifted quite a bit.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: The A to A Market has consolidated more.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: when i got started We were small player one out of many at the time I think sort of two thousand eighteen nineteen twenty.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: a lot of smaller countercom players will relaunched across Europe.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: And now what we can see is a couple of years later, the dust has settled a little bit and there's a couple leading providers that are emerging.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: So this space has evolved quite a bit.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: so I think we've evolved with it.
• 4:18
  Speaker 0: I do want to get into kind of how you see the sector in different companies who play along but its important because your past experiences past roles and past experiences shaped you.
• 4:36
  Speaker 0: I'm sure many people listening will know what Klarna is, so maybe that's a good place to start as how you felt the bad experience kind of put you forward to say, I want to find, found a FinTech and get started on my own?
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: That was really sort where I learned the ropes for FinTech in payments.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: So when my career started actually, it came straight out university When there were relatively small business I think just north of a hundred people, roughly.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: And i was there during the true like hyper growth phase so very much from being small Swedish company with limited European footprint becoming more European leader and ultimately sort-of large unicorn that they are now well past status at this point.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: So it's formative for me in many ways because presumably still a very entrepreneurial environment.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: So I think that was the first time when I was exposed to those kinds of ways of working, and I think it instills this sense of we can actually do this in you?
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: And I see there's an a lot of colleagues—and there are many founders who have quite successfully sort-of scaled businesses or are still scaling —or if even accented—that went through their exact same trajectory like they're mid-to late twenties then started another business.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: So it's been, I think really helpful for every sort of further decision that i've taken throughout my career.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: And then more recently being in a stock listed environment was completely different experience altogether.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: obviously much more regulated therefore perhaps somewhat slower moving just by definition because you no longer are only accountable to yourself and your investors, but a much broader base of owners.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: And so that was different learning.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: But personally I like...I personally prefer the more fast moving VC-back type environment.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: Everything about payment certainly goes back those early years in my career.
• 6:39
  Speaker 0: Well, that's interesting.
• 6:41
  Speaker 0: And I'm tempted to kind of go with a big question here because you've already touched on it and so i hope if we're going to be skipping forward in what is the natural progression questions but you've are you've really got touched on.
• 6:52
  Speaker 0: It makes me wonder about how You see The European attitude To payment infrastructure and sovereignty Because as you said, it's a heavily regulated sector.
• 7:04
  Speaker 0: There are a lot of pieces moving.
• 7:07
  Speaker 0: How do you see that scaling a fintech within Europe?
• 7:11
  Speaker 0: And because we hear so many complaints and here is some critiques not just from people outside of Europe but in Europe and founders in Europe That there're so much regulation It' s difficult and then Fintech has got even triple regulations than other sectors have.
• 7:24
  Speaker 0: So Has this been the kind of journey for U.M Bright?
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: I feel like these are multiple questions all in one, so let me try to contact them.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: Maybe i'll start with the sovereign TTS because we're essentially building a pan-European instant payment network.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: So Bright is a sovereign European payment system and by definition quite excited about the sort of debate around this topic and I think it's warranted.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: And given everything that is happening in the states at the moment politically, some of the interference we've seen already over there on how payment businesses are running etc... It's an important dialogue to have.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: however i think its also important to recognize not a silver bullet solution for adoption.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: Ultimately, in our merchant dialogues what we see is primarily questions around sort of the interface and user experience.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: And then obviously the commercial website for merchants because with a basic premise of pay-by-bank account to account it's going make payment processing more efficient than Europe therefore cheaper from merchants and that should hopefully fuel economic growth over time.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: I mean retailers right now are under pressure, i think there's not another secret in terms of like growth.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: here is a lot of competition coming from Asia.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: so those aren't the concerns or I think they're most relevant.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: And then the fact that sort of from a merchant-from-a-customer point of view That it also sovereign.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: European payment system Is sort of a supporting factor?
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: It's not the main driver Of these sort of decision when they were picking a payment method I would say.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: So while, personally obviously a fan of European tech and European payment systems from A Bright—and that will probably assume our competitors will feel similarly about this —from a provider point-of view it's not like the largest catalyst in terms growth.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: And then when it comes to the second part of your question, and it comes through regulation.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: It is true Europe as a fragmented market.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: that's challenging especially if you have different interpretations from local or home regulator in the EU because we're all supervised wherever we have our license on them but most of us are passporting across Europe which means they were still operating under different markets across Europe with another provider who's licensed somewhere else, and they are subject them to a different regulatory regime.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: And that sometimes can make things quite complicated.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: That certainly is something I wish were simpler from the growth perspective if we're taking European perspectives on what it best for Europe in the European ecosystem.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: Arguably this was more unified across the board where you could all spend less time trying sort of figure out solutions to sort of what is the complexity of expansion across Europe.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: And that would help basically invest more into European tech as a whole and less in fulfilling regulatory requirements, which are obviously super environment because it's been tackle moving people with money.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: so I saw that any of us are pushing nothing for less regulation but a more unified European regulatory framework i think will be welcomed by most.
• 10:50
  Speaker 0: And that perspective of yours has to be fed also by the dual citizenship.
• 10:54
  Speaker 0: I thought it was interesting because you know, from Sweden and Germany we've got a connection with both countries.
• 11:00
  Speaker 0: Imagine if that's kind of shaped.
• 11:02
  Speaker 0: how do see growing company across the twenty-seven European markets right?
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah no definitely!
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: A lot of time in both countries.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: actually Sweden is my home and i have been based here now for two decades but I was born and raised in Germany.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: So, definitely concerned myself with German.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: still so having spent a lot of time at both markets have definitely seen the differences in terms of user behavior which are quite significant actually And i think that is somewhat representative.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: what characterizes building your payment business in Europe?
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: because it's a fragmented market.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: It has different languages, different cultures, different user behaviors.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: Germans are touristy, extremely security and data protection focused.
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: Swedish consumers are more pragmatic.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: they're used to a more transparent society on the whole so therefore their more relaxed when it comes to sharing data.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: And all of that ultimately feeds into sort how we build product in how consumers interacting with it.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: I think part and parcel building is understanding different markets.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: We go market for BtoB business like us Of course, it's also characterized by such challenges.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: Sort of unlocking one market after the other is not a one-size fits all approach but that also makes fun and what also solves a lot issues for our merchants.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: ultimately they need those localized approaches in the way we built their product.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah,
• 12:38
  Speaker 0: I guess hadn't really thought about that kind of how you have to address every single country and its people in a specifically different way.
• 12:45
  Speaker 0: Which i imagine is also why you've expanded with different offices across right?
• 12:50
  Speaker 0: Because you mentioned... well off camera we talked about how you had an office here in Spain And now you have it across the content.
• 12:56
  Speaker 0: so i imagine That's kinda an effort aswell Right To say let get a localized group Of People who can address localized challenges and issues per member state.
• 13:05
  Speaker 0: Oh,
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: totally.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: And I think it's always healthy in the tech business to have people with lots of different cultural backgrounds just because it makes for a richer team and more interesting discussions.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: but definitely local expertise is key.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: There are like couple markets that are famously important to have local talent Germany such market.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: Spain such market.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: France such market.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: We ask people all across.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: That helps.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: It would be much harder for us to understand local markets if we didn't have any local people on the ground, even as Stockholm is a hot quarter.
• 13:43
  Speaker 0: Okay so then... If were talking about overall challenge and kind of gap that you looked to fill when was it that you identified that problem or thought?
• 13:54
  Speaker 0: here's something I can come in on And provide my own expertise too.
• 13:58
  Speaker 0: Was there moment?
• 14:00
  Speaker 0: When you were a clarinet did they come after?
• 14:02
  Speaker 0: what does this look like?
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: So, the idea to start a business was in my last company.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: The BMPL Company because we had our solution that offered all kinds of different payment methods so not just sort-of fine operator invoice accounts etc.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: but also credit card processing and basically anything is really relevant at any given market.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: it wasn't purely Scandinavian Business but nonetheless quite broad range of payment method.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: I started thinking about what's next?
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: in payments, like what are the friction points?
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: What has not been solved yet both from a consumer and a merchant point of view.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: I had during my time at Klarna been involved with an acquisition of business called Sofort which is very much... The original pay-by-bank provider over Europe.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: so it was a German founded business prior to PST too.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: Prior any kind open banking regulation even being termed.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: That business was acquired by Klarna.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: I became involved in that, and thought it would be super interesting but my mind at the time was set on integrating into Klarna working with a team making me part of Klarna's product suite.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: Later on, after I moved on to thinking about this that's actually a really promising category.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: Now there is lot has happened from the regulatory point of view and it looked at different providers as part.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: my role then like who was in market?
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: Who could we potentially partner up
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: with?".
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: Then I started thinking nobody set us up in way that I feel should be setup which is a quite strong merchant offering on the backside with really robust plumbing that sort of spans all across Europe.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: Because I knew like larger enterprise customers, they want one solution for all of Europe right?
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: They're not able to integrate small local providers in this same category and nobody wants them to do it because you are already busy integrating local champions who have to get onboard So you don't want to add five or six pay-by-bank providers.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: I felt that was a challenge, and then also from the consumer point of view nobody had really built super easy use pay by bank product in that convenience is ultimately key.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: like this is such a fallacy.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: when companies are like us we're ultimately B to C business if talk about our products.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: If we only speak about the merchants, who are ultimately paying for their service.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: We fail to see that ultimately they customer needs to use it.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: if there is no consumer clicking on pay bar bank and then check out the merchant gains.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: nothing like Dennis just sort of a nice theoretic concept And I thought nobody had really built like that kind of payment experience in Pay Bar Bank That our thoughts should be offered And that, of course has also gotten easier over the past couple years with regulation maturing and etc.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: That was the decisive moment when I thought like okay somebody should do something in this space.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: Then i met a funding investor on mine who had also been looking at the space through different angle.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: we got together.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: then I saw it.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: Okay!
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: I'm having one perspective he has another.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: We might be onto some thing here.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: Well then that was in
• 17:10
  Speaker 0: twenty nineteen I think i saw.
• 17:12
  Speaker 0: Twenty
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: nineteen exactly.
• 17:14
  Speaker 0: Okay well and uh you know nobody does what bright does.
• 17:19
  Speaker 0: obviously but you do exist within a sector of kind of movement Kind of different applications and something I like to do with these things is kind of bring our own coverage into these interviews And sort have a momentary look as to okay if throughout twenty-twenty six we view startups Have seen from my notes at now.
• 17:38
  Speaker 0: As of now over two hundred million that's gone in too, kind Of how wider fintech payments open banking Jason finance automation.
• 17:47
  Speaker 0: why happy so kind of?
• 17:49
  Speaker 0: what that idea?
• 17:50
  Speaker 0: because I'm sure you have a better understanding than what your competitors are and who the people that work in this sector.
• 17:56
  Speaker 0: How do you see Bright's kind of placement within the Seco system?
• 18:01
  Speaker 0: Do you see it as at-the-head, influencing others around you?
• 18:06
  Speaker 0: they've seen pop up... how did you see their position?
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: I would say we're one of our leading providers.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: Currently there is a handful of providers to reach significant scale All of them with slightly different sort of regional scope.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: We have emerged from the Nordics, obviously there's others that I've emerged in UK other some Southern Europe so i think we're quite at the forefront of the innovation were not the largest yet everybody has started around roughly the same time most early than us actually two three years earlier perhaps and then there was one as you often have on legacy provider.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: thats been market for more than twenty years.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: So generally speaking Im quite happy to see investment in this space Because the more recent funding that we've seen has all gone into AI.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: And then FinTech and especially payments, we have been so spoiled even with an open banking, We haven't been spoiled because sort of the most relevant monetization I would say for Open Banking use cases has spent in payments.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: there's a lot to talk about data which is something For example if you also offer data solutions but mostly do alongside our payment solution at all standalone data business Having been a bit spoiled with the money that has flown into this space, seeing much more focus now on AI.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: Of course it's something we've been looking at.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: so I'm personally pleased to see there is still money being invested in Fintech because definitely there are more growth potential and I think combination of like AI and Fintek also quite strong obviously for us as business if theres alot of potential thats being unlocked through using AI in our own business moving forward.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: So at the end of day, it feels a little bit like a win-win situation nonetheless if those businesses are flourishing.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: But yeah we'll be carefully watching this space and see how the funding environment develops.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: right now We're not looking for funds but of course further down the road that may very well happen again.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: so It's always good to know what the options are.
• 20:05
  Speaker 0: Sure And do you see your consumer base evolving with it?
• 20:09
  Speaker 0: Because I have to imagine since early nineteen as you said AI, there's been shifts.
• 20:14
  Speaker 0: How do you see the consumer of bright changing?
• 20:18
  Speaker 0: And what they really care about when it comes to using your product?
• 20:23
  Speaker 0: because I think that gets lost a little bit in conversation.
• 20:25
  Speaker 0: sometimes we talk funding and all those great things our company has done but at end-of-the day You have to convince somebody use it.
• 20:34
  Speaker 0: how did you read your consumers?
• 20:35
  Speaker 0: since twenty nineteen till now
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: We're seeing that consumers are becoming increasingly more educated around the space, and therefore usage is increasing.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: And I think in my point of view there are single most important factors.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: just a convenience of use There's.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: obviously safety is really an important payment.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: trust is important payments but those are almost sort table stakes.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: But so ease-of-use it's really front and center In our space.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: so much has happened more recently I mean, just to give you an idea and this sounds so ancient.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: The business when we launched in twenty-twenty was... So we haven't been around for that long time.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: but When our first got started there were some markets where basically people would still confirm online banking payment on a scratch card like on a physical scratch card which I know it sounds as crazy.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: It's sounds like this must have been twenty years ago is not that long ago And this isn't Germany major economy right?
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: So now what we see is that people obviously across the board, across Europe they use their online banking apps.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: In which case you have super easy app-to-app redirect basically where you just authenticate with your usual password and then you're done with a payment so that massively sort of fuels the ease of the use.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: at the same time We've had the instant payment directive in Europe.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: quite a lot of them, but to very large extent are now flowing instantly.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: Which also makes paper banks so much more attractive both from sort security of payments point-of-view because we can of course immediately confirm the arrival of funds, the margin they can ship or provide their goods at the same time.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: But if you think in refunds like getting an instant refund for then just like twenty seconds it's just too much more gratifying than having or even, you know we do a lot of financial services as well.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: So for example reserve a lot more than some financial service is I should say so.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: For example Even getting sort of consumer loan paid out instantly the moment that you complete The process online and it's approved instead Of having to wait two or three bank days like all.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: these are factors That are sort of aiding the sort of consumable convenience in A really major way And that is ultimately really important for the growth of a category.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: That's what we're seeing in terms of consumer behavior, consumers are becoming increasingly more aware and... We see numbers too—we have ninety percent return on consumer rates rather than conversion rates above mid-ninety per cent For those consumers as well, which is ultimately a really strong KPI for all merchants.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: I mean it's the number one thing merchants would monitor when they're looking at payment performance.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: Is that actually converting at the end of day?
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: So um i think It's going very much into the right direction.
• 23:22
  Speaker 0: great And not to switch the topic here just so strongly, but another point that I think is important to talk about although a part of me wishes it wasn't So important to Talk About Is you know You are you're driving forward A female-led FinTech within Europe and Year year past here, we keep getting the same data showing that the gender gap is still large when it comes to funding amounts as going through female-led initiatives usually are much lower than what is for male led initiatives.
• 23:53
  Speaker 0: How do you see your positioning within that ecosystem?
• 23:57
  Speaker 0: I imagine there must be some kind of a push by yourself as well to push upwards female entrepreneurs and female lead companies around.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: No, of course.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: I mean...I think a lot has already changed if i compare sort-of the level female talent that we now have in my business and other businesses compared to how this would've looked when I got my start at Fintech in two thousand ten.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: Things have changed And I think where on the right way there as well?
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: If just look up right.. I initially started out recruiting relatively senior people And that was possible thanks to the fact, there were already a generation of FinTech professionals who had previous experience.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: If I go back to two thousand ten and that wasn't the case because FinTech wasn't even term.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: so it's really hard find somebody worked in payment business before other than large car providers.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: just There weren't that many in Europe, and the big ones were in the US.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: And there wasn't that much talent obviously available to us moving from the States through Sweden at the time.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: And now it has changed.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: so there's a lot of female talent That is already done their first five ten maybe even fifteen years experience In sort-of...in another fintech.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: That makes it a lot easier to bring in senior females.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: My personal hypothesis is that will also over time create more female founders, which of course are also debates and I often get involved there on how can we encourage women too?
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: To start businesses or become co-founders with business businesses.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: Partly linked off course the very same dynamic because you know, self-funding I think is a big topic.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: A lot of founders that i know have made some kind of exit even if it's massive.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: in the previous business they would've had stock options warrants and they wouldn't have converted.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: That will give them some liquidity If not to fund their own businesses at least sort take the risk as an entrepreneur To not have much stable income for awhile.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: And obviously, it's always also been fewer women that have had that kind of cushion.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: That would've helped them as a launch bed into their own business and I think that is also improving.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: so all in all i'm quite positive around the trend.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: I do agree there are still gap by myself Obviously having interests attracting great females to my businesses.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: So they love how they're thriving and potentially moving on to other businesses.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: even doing this thing over time will see improvement.
• 26:39
  Speaker 0: Yeah, I mean it's you know a full disclosure.
• 26:42
  Speaker 0: when we're looking at our episode list We are also dreadfully short.
• 26:47
  Speaker 0: Also on a few mountain view ease that we bring out and that's not from a lack of want On our side.
• 26:52
  Speaker 0: but there is if we talk about senior Entrepreneurs in sea level From companies yes It's still a lot Of men that kind of fill those roles while Slowly, we are kind of filling it in.
• 27:07
  Speaker 0: It is still something that I think we see present even from the media coverage up things.
• 27:12
  Speaker 0: I wouldn't be able to give you a percentage But i'm sure if uh If I sat down and just looked at how many companies We've covered In twenty-twenty six How Many were led by men?
• 27:20
  Speaker 0: How Many Are Led By Women The Difference Would Be Quite Stark.
• 27:23
  Speaker 0: And Yeah I don't...I can Just Say That!
• 27:26
  Speaker 0: I Don'T Think I Even Need To Check That Number.
• 27:28
  Speaker 0: Uh but So Kind Of With That In Mind I Did Want Ask Then About what you think should be done in that sense, because women into senior level roles is going to eventually encourage them to branch out and create their own companies, become founders themselves.
• 27:46
  Speaker 0: So do you think that's the missing element we need to encourage?
• 27:50
  Speaker 0: Is it more say capital aimed specifically at fingernail entrepreneurs or visibility by us from media where they're going to dedicate a specific amount of our coverage to woman initiatives?
• 28:03
  Speaker 0: what are your thoughts on this missing link there?
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: I think that's a good question.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: It is important to not confuse the symptom with the reason, ultimately and some of these are more symptoms than underlying fundamental reasons.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: but generally speaking aside from like the organic trend which i have hopes for will improve things definitely it gets a combination of factors.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: there are structural barriers we know in ways women being funded.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: So that's a problem.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: Anything can be done on the front, of course is helpful.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: I think general access to technology and getting women into tech-focused careers are ultimately also helpful.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: Speaking with my CTO around the shared woman we have an engineering team... We're blessed to have a couple really great female engineers but obviously they're minority very similar.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: what you were just saying about your guest in this exact same situation And we were discussing sort of why is that actually, and you made a point.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: That has stuck in my mind.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: he said listen even if I try to hire every single female engineer straight out of university no questions asked i would still not be able to achieve gender parity basically in our engineering team And that's, I think just like a fundamental challenge we have.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: We can only do so much about it right?
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: So i think we need to sort of try and work on the basics To see how we get more women into these kinds of careers.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: That then also take down some structural barriers.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I wouldn't say there is a silver bullet solution but rather combination of factors that hopefully will improve over time or need to be actively addressed.
• 29:58
  Speaker 0: Okay Well, thank you for this.
• 30:00
  Speaker 0: It's gonna be my final question here and I do want to thank if we're kind of covering such a wide umbrella different topics.
• 30:06
  Speaker 0: but that's the goal with these interviews is maybe pick your brain on every little thing that you might have some connection too.
• 30:12
  Speaker 0: so With that in mind This Is My Final Question.
• 30:15
  Speaker 0: it's...I'm always curious about where founders see their companies.
• 30:20
  Speaker 0: You know In The Media Future.
• 30:21
  Speaker 0: So you've been around since I was nineteen.
• 30:23
  Speaker 0: so talking seven-ish years Where Do You See Brighton?
• 30:28
  Speaker 0: five, seven years from now when you doubled your existence.
• 30:32
  Speaker 0: And what does that kind of look like for you?
• 30:34
  Speaker 0: Is it just we have more customers?
• 30:37
  Speaker 0: is that we've expanded to more countries as they're a goal in mind?
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: so I think that's sort of... We are very much still on the middle of the race.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: As I mentioned before, there are a couple of providers that have regional strongholds but nobody's really conquered Europe fully at this point in time.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: There is no real European market leader.
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: There're some regional leaders who are stronger than the regions and others.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: But what i would like to see it as us being on the forefront of European pay-by-bank and leading that space.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: That's really our biggest emission, And right now we have a lot coverage all across Europe but not equally well established in each and every market.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: I think that is very sort of symptomatic for the spaces as whole because you've got like hot spot markets where account accounts are already super popular.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: that would be Sweden Finland Germany more.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: Spain has its own account to account alternative with Bazuma local champion.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: You have the Netherlands, The UK is an incredibly mature market for open banking but in order for merchants to really push a counter-account or paper bank we use those terms interchangeably you need basically more uniform demand across Europe and we want that provider can do it for them.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: they can satisfy this product to ultimately run the majority of their payments in Europe on paper bankrails.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: I think that's the ultimate goal, and if we go back into this sovereignty discussion a much more resilient European infrastructure.
• 32:22
  Speaker 0: Well, we'll definitely keep our eye out then.
• 32:23
  Speaker 0: Hopefully hopefully uh We can have you back on them two years from now and you can tell us how you've succeeded On all of this.
• 32:29
  Speaker 0: Yeah well I want to thank you very much Selena for his conversation.
• 32:35
  Speaker 0: It's been very insightful For me personally And there's just kind of in all these very little different things that i've Been able To touch on which were interesting.
• 32:42
  Speaker 0: so I wanna Thank You.
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: Thank you, David Pravek.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: It has been great fun and happy to come back again in a couple of years into Shaggy one more time for the third time then.
• 32:52
  Speaker 0: Okay hopefully I'm still around And we can maintain... You can maintain The Hosts.
• 32:56
  Speaker 0: Then i'll have To switch For A Third Time.
• 32:58
  Speaker 0: So until then Keep In Touch.
• 33:01
  Speaker 0: Thanks very much!
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: Bye.