Latest / Coffee and Bible Time Podcast / When You're Still Hurting: How God Brings Emotional Healing | Evan Marbury

Transcript

When You're Still Hurting: How God Brings Emotional Healing | Evan Marbury · Coffee and Bible Time Podcast

• 0:56
  Evan Marbury: We move towards trauma so that we can better move towards obedience in Christ because He is our place of flourishing.
• 1:04
  Evan Marbury: There are so many people that feel cut off from flourishing because of these wounds that they are carrying, cut off from wholeness and health.
• 1:12
  Evan Marbury: And we get the sacred opportunity to bring marvelous light to that darkness and watch the Lord work.
• 1:22
  Ellen Krause: The Coffee and Bible Time Podcast.
• 1:25
  Ellen Krause: Our goal is to help you delight in God's Word and thrive in Christian living.
• 1:29
  Ellen Krause: Each week we talk to subject matter experts who broaden your biblical understanding, encourage you in hard times, and provide life-building tips to enhance your Christian walk.
• 1:40
  Ellen Krause: We are so glad you have joined us.
• 1:43
  Ellen Krause: Hi friends, I'm so excited that you're joining us today.
• 1:49
  Ellen Krause: I had such a great conversation with Evan, and I can't wait to hear your thoughts on it too.
• 1:55
  Ellen Krause: But before we jump in, I wanted to share this comment from a listener.
• 1:59
  Ellen Krause: Heather writes, I love how this podcast makes Bible study feel warm, personal, and alive.
• 2:07
  Ellen Krause: Every conversation points back to intimacy with Jesus and reminds me that time in the Word is meant to be a two-way relationship, such a refreshing space for anyone longing to hear God's voice more clearly.
• 2:23
  Ellen Krause: Thank you so much, Heather.
• 2:25
  Ellen Krause: That means so much to us that you took the time to make the comment.
• 2:30
  Ellen Krause: We really welcome all of your thoughts and feedback.
• 2:34
  Ellen Krause: If you have something that you'd like to share, comment, question, or testimony of how God has been working in your life.
• 2:42
  Ellen Krause: We would love to hear it and share it in a future episode.
• 2:45
  Ellen Krause: To write in, leave a comment, review, or click in the link in the show notes that says send us fan mail.
• 2:54
  Ellen Krause: I can't wait to hear from you.
• 2:56
  Ellen Krause: Okay, back to the conversation.
• 2:58
  Ellen Krause: Welcome back to the Coffee and Bible Time podcast.
• 3:01
  Ellen Krause: I'm Ellen, your host.
• 3:03
  Ellen Krause: Whether we realize it or not, every single day we encounter people carrying wounds that we can't see.
• 3:11
  Ellen Krause: Some are walking through grief while others are recovering from abuse, betrayal, abandonment, and other experiences that have shaped the way they see themselves, other people, and even God.
• 3:25
  Ellen Krause: And if we're honest, many of us are carrying hurts of our own.
• 3:30
  Ellen Krause: So how does the gospel speak into trauma?
• 3:34
  Ellen Krause: And what does true healing actually look like in Christ?
• 3:39
  Ellen Krause: Well, our guest today is pastor and licensed therapist Dr.
• 3:44
  Ellen Krause: Evan Marbury.
• 3:46
  Ellen Krause: He holds degrees in psychology, counseling, and theology, and he's here to offer biblical wisdom alongside practical insight for anyone seeking to care for the hurting or to better understand their own story.
• 4:00
  Ellen Krause: Evan, we're so thankful that you're here.
• 4:03
  Ellen Krause: Welcome to the podcast.
• 4:04
  Evan Marbury: Thank you.
• 4:05
  Evan Marbury: I'm so glad to be here.
• 4:06
  Evan Marbury: Thank you for the invitation.
• 4:07
  Ellen Krause: Absolutely.
• 4:08
  Ellen Krause: Well, why don't we start out with just first understanding what trauma actually is?
• 4:15
  Evan Marbury: That's a good question.
• 4:16
  Evan Marbury: So this is an important question that honestly gave rise to this book.
• 4:20
  Evan Marbury: So trauma is a type of pain.
• 4:22
  Evan Marbury: In the book, I say that there is pain that hurts and pain that alters.
• 4:27
  Evan Marbury: Trauma is pain that alters.
• 4:30
  Evan Marbury: It is a wounding event that has led to rupture to our sense of being.
• 4:35
  Evan Marbury: It has overwhelmed us beyond our ability to cope.
• 4:38
  Evan Marbury: It has affected how we relate to ourself, our relationships, our world, our God.
• 4:43
  Evan Marbury: And it's important to make that distinction because that kind of pain needs a more particular response to heal.
• 4:50
  Evan Marbury: You know, people say, you know, time heals all wounds.
• 4:52
  Evan Marbury: Yeah, sometimes time also can cause infections and sepsis, right?
• 4:56
  Evan Marbury: So there are wounds that we carry that that need more than just time.
• 5:00
  Evan Marbury: And time could actually bring confusion because you think you should be healed after all this time has passed from an experience you've had.
• 5:07
  Evan Marbury: But sometimes you need time and attentive care to heal.
• 5:12
  Ellen Krause: Absolutely.
• 5:13
  Ellen Krause: Well, as you mentioned, um, trauma can start to sound overused, and others might hesitate to apply it to their own experiences.
• 5:22
  Ellen Krause: We get caught up in this cycle of, well, that wasn't that bad.
• 5:25
  Ellen Krause: Other people have had it much worse.
• 5:28
  Evan Marbury: Yeah.
• 5:28
  Ellen Krause: How do you help people think about trauma without either minimizing it or exaggerating it?
• 5:36
  Evan Marbury: Yeah, I think trauma is often conceptualized in three categories as the event, the experience, and the effect.
• 5:43
  Evan Marbury: So there there's usually some event that this is tied to or a series of events.
• 5:47
  Evan Marbury: So we we all experience the event of you know the COVID pandemic, for example, but we we didn't we don't experience it the same way.
• 5:56
  Evan Marbury: And so how we experience it has has its own effect.
• 5:59
  Evan Marbury: And more often than not, when when people are coming and sitting down with me, I I hear a lot of refrain of minimizing and exaggerating.
• 6:08
  Evan Marbury: And I think where I want to be most helpful in spending our time together is w what are the particularities of your story that seem affected right now?
• 6:19
  Evan Marbury: Regardless of if you know, compared to this person or that person, it's it's better or worse.
• 6:24
  Evan Marbury: Because you're acknowledging there is something that is ruptured, and regardless of you know what it looks like in other people's lives, it's looking like this in your life.
• 6:32
  Evan Marbury: And I want to support you in experiencing fullness and wholeness and experience healing, you're wounded.
• 6:39
  Evan Marbury: Uh, and we don't have to put a ranking system on your wound.
• 6:42
  Evan Marbury: We can just take the time that you think you need to experience healing.
• 6:47
  Ellen Krause: Well, thank you so much for sort of helping us really get to the point that what you're feeling and what you have gone through matters, right?
• 6:58
  Ellen Krause: That's really what I'm hearing you say, and that we don't need to minimize it or compare ourselves.
• 7:04
  Ellen Krause: It's very important to address it.
• 7:06
  Ellen Krause: And what I found so interesting was that you said statistically, at least half of the people we meet have experienced trauma.
• 7:14
  Ellen Krause: So why is it important for every Christian and not just counselors or pastors to have a better understanding of trauma?
• 7:24
  Evan Marbury: Yeah.
• 7:25
  Evan Marbury: Well, for starters, it's so that we can have a better understanding of who we are in community with.
• 7:30
  Evan Marbury: Right.
• 7:30
  Evan Marbury: So everyone's story matters.
• 7:33
  Evan Marbury: And when we miss critical aspects of someone's story, we fall short in caring for them effectively.
• 7:39
  Evan Marbury: Um, you know, therapist Michael John Cusick, he describes trauma-informed care as not only understanding life experiences that shape an individual, but also how a person experiences their care.
• 7:51
  Evan Marbury: So, in other words, Bible study is incredible and encouraging words incredible.
• 7:55
  Evan Marbury: There, but there's a reason why Jesus did not just teach all the time, though he could have, but he he took into consideration people's particular life experiences.
• 8:07
  Evan Marbury: And so he didn't approach blind Bartimaeus the same way as the woman at the well.
• 8:11
  Evan Marbury: He engaged what Dietrich Bonhoeffer called the ministry of listening.
• 8:15
  Evan Marbury: Jesus never had to ask questions, but he did, because even listening and engaging someone's story as it is presented has its own ministry effect.
• 8:26
  Evan Marbury: And so a better understanding should lead to better care of someone's story.
• 8:31
  Evan Marbury: So it's a it's a really important opportunity uh to gain some understanding around these things.
• 8:39
  Ellen Krause: Absolutely.
• 8:39
  Ellen Krause: And it's it's a way that we can love people by learning about them and their stories.
• 8:46
  Ellen Krause: And I love that you want to help equip us to better care for people that have experienced trauma.
• 8:53
  Ellen Krause: Well, Evan, you served as a pastor and military chaplain as well as a therapist.
• 8:58
  Ellen Krause: Was there a particular person or moment in ministry that sort of fundamentally changed how you think about healing and resilience?
• 9:07
  Evan Marbury: Yeah, this question actually draws me back to when I was an addiction counselor for teens and young adults in a residential recovery program.
• 9:15
  Evan Marbury: Every single one of them had trauma, severe trauma, and it led to them coping in destructive ways.
• 9:21
  Evan Marbury: And there was one client that was particularly agitated, and I can understand why.
• 9:26
  Evan Marbury: And it turns out he was making plans to end his life.
• 9:30
  Evan Marbury: And the more I asked questions, the more he would make statements that were signaling to me, oh, he doesn't plan to be here much longer.
• 9:38
  Evan Marbury: And so I had to call the authorities, I called my supervisor.
• 9:42
  Evan Marbury: It was a very stressful ordeal as police cars and ambulances and even fire trucks uh showed up, and all for this one young man who was contemplating a self-destructive decision.
• 9:52
  Evan Marbury: Uh now I thought that after that, that uh after all that had gone on, that these guys in this program would never trust me again.
• 9:59
  Evan Marbury: I mean, I'm the guy that snitched on someone that was hurting, but they actually became more honest with me.
• 10:04
  Evan Marbury: Uh and as I reflected on why that was, there were several reasons, but but one that feels relevant to this question was that they knew that I took their pain and their well-being seriously.
• 10:16
  Evan Marbury: They believed that I would do what was necessary for them to experience healing when they had grown up being used to people throwing them away for for hurting too much, for being an inconvenience with their pain.
• 10:29
  Evan Marbury: And so they shared more vulnerably with me, and we talked more deeply about what recovery could look like, and that was very paradigm shifting for me, and it impacted how I showed up in many of these ministry experiences and spaces that you listed here.
• 10:44
  Evan Marbury: And you know, you mentioned resilience.
• 10:46
  Evan Marbury: You know, I talk about in the book that resilience is God-centered self-direction, and that should always be in view when you're caring for trauma-affected people.
• 10:55
  Evan Marbury: We move towards trauma so that we can better move towards obedience in Christ because He is our place of flourishing.
• 11:03
  Evan Marbury: There are so many people that feel cut off from flourishing because of these wounds that they are carrying, cut off from wholeness and health.
• 11:11
  Evan Marbury: And we give the sacred opportunity to bring the marvelous light to that darkness and watch the Lord work.
• 11:18
  Evan Marbury: That's the essence of resilience, and I've seen it time and time again, and it's just so beautiful to see the Lord work in that way.
• 11:26
  Ellen Krause: Absolutely.
• 11:27
  Ellen Krause: And for me, someone who's who's been on that side before of to the point of wanting to end my life and process trauma, the processing of it was so incredibly helpful, and there is this recovery that is possible.
• 11:48
  Ellen Krause: I feel like having processed through the things that I've gone through and coming out the other side, you see just how great our God is, and that there's nothing worth giving up on.
• 12:03
  Ellen Krause: There's nothing worth giving up on because nothing's impossible for God.
• 12:08
  Evan Marbury: Absolutely.
• 12:09
  Evan Marbury: Yeah.
• 12:09
  Evan Marbury: It's just so, and and you would think that people would assume that they know that, especially if they're Christian, that's where a lot of shame often comes in of like, I should have more hope.
• 12:18
  Evan Marbury: And and yet there is so much to just acknowledging, I'm not experiencing the hope that like these things are not piercing down into my soul.
• 12:26
  Evan Marbury: There's an experience I'm having.
• 12:28
  Evan Marbury: I think it's just wonderful when someone has the courage to acknowledge that.
• 12:32
  Evan Marbury: But also for the person that's caring for them to be able to receive that without trying to rush past it, because that is the place of the ministry of listening can really take effect.
• 12:43
  Ellen Krause: Yeah.
• 12:43
  Ellen Krause: So let's talk about that a little more because most of us aren't therapists.
• 12:47
  Ellen Krause: We're moms and friends and small group leaders.
• 12:50
  Ellen Krause: How can just ordinary Christians become safe people for those carrying trauma?
• 12:58
  Ellen Krause: And maybe share with us like, are we to take the first step in asking people about it if we know about it, or do we let them come to us?
• 13:09
  Evan Marbury: Well, when I hear that question, I love the story of the good Samaritan, that parable by Jesus, because the Samaritan was the least expected person to care for the wounded person in the ditch.
• 13:19
  Evan Marbury: The professionals and religious experts were the ones that missed them and avoided them, and the one who culturally would have been considered the least qualified showed himself to be a neighbor.
• 13:32
  Evan Marbury: So the Samaritan, he did all these things to care for the wounded person, to move where they were, show compassion.
• 13:38
  Evan Marbury: But the story ends with him widening the circle of care for the wounded person.
• 13:43
  Evan Marbury: He was the first responder.
• 13:45
  Evan Marbury: He took the time and energy to see and move towards, and he didn't stop there.
• 13:49
  Evan Marbury: He widened the circle of care by bringing this wounded person to the innkeeper.
• 13:54
  Evan Marbury: And what's implicit in that is a willingness to embrace the limitations and caring for this person.
• 14:00
  Evan Marbury: You are not the only person to care for them.
• 14:02
  Evan Marbury: And so how can we use what we have, the capacity that we have, but also embrace the limitations as well?
• 14:09
  Evan Marbury: And in the book, I talk about being mindful of your competence, your capacity, and your context when thinking about the limitations of care.
• 14:16
  Evan Marbury: Yes, we should all care.
• 14:17
  Evan Marbury: Yes, we are all the body of Christ, yes, we have the Holy Spirit.
• 14:20
  Evan Marbury: And also, it is not uh shameful or embarrassing to say I don't have the competence to address all that needs to be addressed here.
• 14:28
  Evan Marbury: I can be helpful, again, first responder, but I I don't actually have the tools to bring the scope of healing that would actually be most helpful for you.
• 14:37
  Evan Marbury: And so I'm acknowledging my limitations.
• 14:39
  Evan Marbury: I'm not just passing you off to the professional or the therapist.
• 14:43
  Evan Marbury: I I want to be part of your circle of care, but I want to also widen your circle of care so that your healing can expand the scope of your woundedness.
• 14:50
  Evan Marbury: And also, you might not always have the capacity.
• 14:52
  Evan Marbury: If you're a small group leader, if you're a mom, you know, if you got there's multiple things going on.
• 14:57
  Evan Marbury: What's beautiful about the Samaritan is that he left.
• 15:01
  Evan Marbury: Uh he he paid for the instay, he's told the innkeeper, do what you need to do, and he continued on in what he was doing in his life.
• 15:10
  Evan Marbury: We we should embrace the limits of our capacity.
• 15:14
  Evan Marbury: Uh, there are other things going on.
• 15:16
  Evan Marbury: You are not designated as a therapist to this person, so just be mindful of your capacity, and then and then context is like, yeah, it's sometimes you need a carved out space to really engage this well.
• 15:26
  Evan Marbury: And so is is this the right context for this depth of sharing and disclosure?
• 15:32
  Evan Marbury: And and all these should be curious questions.
• 15:35
  Evan Marbury: And to the extent that you're saying no, that this isn't the right context, well, what is the yes in that?
• 15:40
  Evan Marbury: And you and you're helping them discern that together because there's often still some stigma around going to therapy.
• 15:46
  Evan Marbury: Is there am I particularly broken if I if I go to a therapist?
• 15:50
  Evan Marbury: Is there something particularly wrong with me?
• 15:51
  Evan Marbury: And I and I talk about therapy as an added resource amongst the the wellspring of resources that are in your life.
• 15:59
  Evan Marbury: You have wonderful relationships, you have hopefully a wonderful community, whether that's church or otherwise.
• 16:04
  Evan Marbury: And right now, those resources are not spanning the scope of the healing that you need.
• 16:09
  Evan Marbury: And therapy can be an added resource that can really help you span the scope.
• 16:14
  Evan Marbury: And once you feel like life is more manageable in these areas that feel dysfunctional, then you should feel at liberty to end therapy or make adjustments so that you can again engage a self-directed life.
• 16:27
  Evan Marbury: And so just stay curious in all of that.
• 16:28
  Evan Marbury: Both in your caring for someone, but also if you're someone listening, it's like, wow, do I need something more?
• 16:33
  Evan Marbury: And what does it look like to need something more?
• 16:35
  Evan Marbury: Is it okay to go after it?
• 16:37
  Ellen Krause: Yes.
• 16:37
  Ellen Krause: And it's okay to need a level of therapy at one point in your life, at not one point, and then maybe later on again at one point, because right?
• 16:49
  Ellen Krause: Our our lives are ever evolving and different needs and situations arise, and so there's nothing wrong with going back to if you need to.
• 17:00
  Evan Marbury: Yeah.
• 17:00
  Ellen Krause: Evan, what would you suggest if let's say there's someone that you're encouraging to see a therapist and they they don't want anything to do with it?
• 17:11
  Ellen Krause: Is there any special way that you should handle that conversation?
• 17:15
  Ellen Krause: Just kind of let them be and pray about it?
• 17:19
  Evan Marbury: Well, certainly prayer is a is a good a good step.
• 17:22
  Evan Marbury: And also if if someone is is not curious, then you have an opportunity to uh to model curiosity.
• 17:29
  Evan Marbury: Usually what uh becomes the more decisive factor to go to therapy is that there's a sense of stuckness or unmanageability about life, that you're using all the resources of maybe prayer and scripture reading and going to church and listening to sermons or reading books, and there still feels like, ah, I'm not progressing in this area as I would want there to be.
• 17:54
  Evan Marbury: Uh, I think that's the place of like, okay, well, you have not exhausted all your resources.
• 17:59
  Evan Marbury: And so if you're open to it, would love to talk about expanding the resources that you have, one of those being therapy.
• 18:06
  Evan Marbury: Uh and now, and once they start talking about therapy, there's often a lot of questions on what kind of advice they might give or background they might have, like you know, how will I pay for it or how I make time for it.
• 18:17
  Evan Marbury: All those things are really good.
• 18:19
  Evan Marbury: And also, you know, I think of the man at the pool of Bethesda, when Jesus said, Do you want to be healed?
• 18:25
  Evan Marbury: The man's response was all the reasons why he had obstacles to his healing.
• 18:31
  Evan Marbury: And Jesus held before him, yeah, all those obstacles were there.
• 18:34
  Evan Marbury: Do you want to be healed?
• 18:36
  Evan Marbury: Right?
• 18:36
  Evan Marbury: That that was the question that was was lingering, not what are all the obstacles to your healing that are making this slow.
• 18:43
  Evan Marbury: And so I think that's the the place of of questioning as well.
• 18:47
  Evan Marbury: Well, do you want to be healed?
• 18:48
  Evan Marbury: Yes, there might be obstacles, yes, there might be setbacks, yes, this has been long in the making.
• 18:53
  Evan Marbury: Do you want to be healed?
• 18:55
  Evan Marbury: If you want to be healed, what is the next step that actually move towards healing as opposed to focusing on the obstacles that make it feel like it's impossible?
• 19:03
  Ellen Krause: Right, right, right.
• 19:04
  Ellen Krause: That's so helpful, so helpful.
• 19:08
  Ellen Krause: You had mentioned that sometimes well-meaning Christians say things that perhaps don't come across the best to someone who's actually hurting, like, well, God works all things together for good, and maybe just not truly addressing someone's pain.
• 19:26
  Ellen Krause: What are those biblical truths though that we we can help someone with that wouldn't dismiss what they're going through?
• 19:35
  Evan Marbury: Yeah, I like the word um in that is uh is is bypassing.
• 19:41
  Evan Marbury: When I hear you ask that question, I think of spiritual bypassing.
• 19:43
  Evan Marbury: It's it's a problem in in church culture sometimes where we want to use spiritual language and and even scripture to move past an issue with the least amount of disruption.
• 19:53
  Evan Marbury: I mean, going around it or bypassing it can feel more efficient and attractive than walking through it, because walking through it can often feel very hard and messy.
• 20:04
  Evan Marbury: And so trauma is not something you can bypass in healing.
• 20:08
  Evan Marbury: You you have to move towards it and process through it, which is usually very inefficient.
• 20:15
  Evan Marbury: Uh yes, we always have hope, and yes, all things do work together for the good.
• 20:20
  Evan Marbury: That is scripture, and yet we miss the ministry of listening in that sometimes.
• 20:26
  Evan Marbury: Again, Bonhoeffer wrote, uh, we need to grow in listening with the ears of God so that we can better speak the words of God.
• 20:33
  Evan Marbury: We could be in danger of being trite and cliche if we have not also incorporated lament in our engagement.
• 20:41
  Evan Marbury: Lament should be a spiritual practice in processing trauma because it helps us frame tragedy in a God-honoring way.
• 20:48
  Evan Marbury: I mean, just recently I was talking with a young lady in my church who has been dealing with chronic illness, and we just slowly walked through Psalm 13.
• 20:57
  Evan Marbury: How long, O Lord, will you forget me forever?
• 21:01
  Evan Marbury: How long will you hide your face from me?
• 21:03
  Evan Marbury: How long must I wrestle with my thoughts day after day and have sorrow in my heart?
• 21:09
  Evan Marbury: Right?
• 21:10
  Evan Marbury: That like that is given to us in scripture.
• 21:12
  Evan Marbury: That's an act of worship to raise those kinds of questions.
• 21:16
  Evan Marbury: And so the the danger of being cliche or danger of of dismissing often emerges when we don't give the proper space for that kind of lament to happen, right?
• 21:26
  Evan Marbury: Job is an example of that.
• 21:28
  Evan Marbury: Like his friends showed up for him and they sat in silence together, but then they started trying to make sense of it and they made a big mess of things.
• 21:36
  Ellen Krause: Right.
• 21:36
  Evan Marbury: So we can be uh in in danger of that if we're trying to be very neat in the progress of healing.
• 21:43
  Evan Marbury: Healing is often very messy, very inefficient, and it should raise these questions that are birthed out of tragedy and sorrow, and that's okay.
• 21:52
  Evan Marbury: You can do that full of faith, right?
• 21:55
  Evan Marbury: Psalm 13 is held together with Romans 8 28.
• 21:58
  Evan Marbury: All things work together.
• 21:59
  Evan Marbury: They don't have to negate each other.
• 22:01
  Evan Marbury: How can we incorporate them together?
• 22:03
  Ellen Krause: Absolutely.
• 22:04
  Ellen Krause: You know, that reminds me of just this past week in our live Bible study that we do.
• 22:10
  Ellen Krause: We were just talking about the progression of that lament psalm being the person experiencing pain, having prayer about it, raising questions about it, remembering though what God has done in the past, and then having uh this heart of worship.
• 22:31
  Ellen Krause: And I think that just um you bringing up the this idea is so important.
• 22:38
  Evan Marbury: Yeah.
• 22:38
  Ellen Krause: Well, if there's someone listening to this who it's maybe really touched their heart that, you know, I'm wondering if I should maybe get some help.
• 22:49
  Ellen Krause: What would be the first step in them making that decision?
• 22:54
  Evan Marbury: Yeah, so if it's getting help and In terms of trauma more broadly, um, I would wonder what's what's a trusted friend where you can be curious together.
• 23:04
  Evan Marbury: You know, Peter Levine, he's a psychiatrist, he says trauma is not just what happens to us, it's what happens within us in the absence of an empathetic witness.
• 23:12
  Evan Marbury: And so trauma is a very lonely experience, and trauma recovery is a very lonely endeavor, and we need someone that can move towards us in that loneliness, that even as those feelings arise, we can reference and point to people that can be with us and not flinch, be with us and not be overtaken by the sharing of our wounds and our hurt.
• 23:36
  Evan Marbury: And so we just encourage you to take that risky step of letting someone in.
• 23:39
  Evan Marbury: Hopefully, you have someone in your life that that takes your your wounds and well-being seriously.
• 23:43
  Evan Marbury: And if not, again, I I would be curious about taking a step of therapy where there's a professional that knows how to frame that for you and and hopefully model that for you so that you can better practice that in your life.
• 23:56
  Ellen Krause: Evan, you've so beautifully responded in such a way that if you're listening to this, I'm really encouraging you to think about what Evan said and just assess your own mental health.
• 24:10
  Ellen Krause: And like you said, God wants us to get us to the point of flourishing.
• 24:14
  Ellen Krause: I know many people who have gone through, and I myself have one of them who have been on the rocky hard side, but then also seen God do an amazing work in my life.
• 24:27
  Ellen Krause: So I know that it's possible.
• 24:30
  Ellen Krause: Amen.
• 24:31
  Ellen Krause: Kevin, amen.
• 24:32
  Ellen Krause: Your your book, which is so good, is called Understanding Trauma and Resilience, but you almost named it sacred care.
• 24:42
  Ellen Krause: Yeah.
• 24:43
  Ellen Krause: I love that phrase.
• 24:44
  Ellen Krause: Why do you think caring for wounded people is sacred work?
• 24:48
  Evan Marbury: Yeah, I talk about that in my book.
• 24:49
  Evan Marbury: I was almost there, and then we had some good conversations with my publisher on that, and so we landed on the title that we have.
• 24:55
  Evan Marbury: Uh, and and I think any kind of care is sacred work, right?
• 24:58
  Evan Marbury: That's the danger we want to avoid, that there's a ranking system of sacredness.
• 25:02
  Evan Marbury: Any work of the gospel is holy and sacred.
• 25:04
  Evan Marbury: But at the same time, there are times when I'm counseling people, uh, whether as you know clinician or as a pastor or just as a friend, and we enter a threshold of vulnerability.
• 25:17
  Evan Marbury: Uh, we we cross a threshold of connection, a threshold of trust.
• 25:21
  Evan Marbury: And and once I cross that threshold, I know something has has changed for them.
• 25:27
  Evan Marbury: The amount of courage that they have stepped into is such an honor to behold.
• 25:33
  Evan Marbury: It feels like when Moses took off his sandals with the burning bush, you you behold the Lord's glory and it creates the sense of awe.
• 25:40
  Evan Marbury: You know, that that's what I feel when clients trust me with the most tender and vulnerable parts of their story.
• 25:48
  Evan Marbury: When they put words to these wounds for the first time, or at least the first time with me, it just means so much.
• 25:55
  Evan Marbury: Uh, you know, Diane Langberg, you know, says that trauma is a mission field.
• 25:59
  Evan Marbury: You know, is it is stepping into the darkness and pushing it back with God's marvelous light.
• 26:04
  Evan Marbury: And that is truly amazing work.
• 26:06
  Evan Marbury: And so when when those those moments happen of of particular courage and particular vulnerability, it just just feels like it is a sacred space that is worth honoring and protecting and coming back to and taking seriously.
• 26:20
  Ellen Krause: Yes, yes.
• 26:20
  Ellen Krause: Well, it's getting to a soul level of being someone's most inner being.
• 26:27
  Ellen Krause: Well, it's just been incredible to learn more about this, Evan, from you.
• 26:32
  Ellen Krause: Where can our listeners go to get more information about you and your book, Understanding Trauma and Resilience?
• 26:40
  Evan Marbury: Yeah, you can go to Amazon uh and you can find my book there.
• 26:44
  Evan Marbury: And you can contact me through my website, evanmarbury.com.
• 26:48
  Evan Marbury: I also do a little bit of writing there.
• 26:50
  Evan Marbury: Yeah, but besides that, I don't do much on social media.
• 26:53
  Evan Marbury: You could find me on social media, but it will be a very, very lonely page that you would find.
• 26:57
  Evan Marbury: But I think those places, Amazon and my website is where there's more activity going.
• 27:01
  Ellen Krause: Excellent.
• 27:02
  Ellen Krause: And we will have links to both of those in our show notes.
• 27:05
  Ellen Krause: Evan, before I let you go, I have to ask some of our rapid fire coffee and bible time questions here.
• 27:11
  Ellen Krause: What is your go-to Bible and what translation is it?
• 27:16
  Evan Marbury: Yeah, so when I was ordained several years ago, my church purchased a Bible for me, and it's just really special to me.
• 27:21
  Evan Marbury: And so anytime I preach or kind of do any teaching, I go to that Bible, and it's uh it's a ESV.
• 27:28
  Ellen Krause: Excellent.
• 27:29
  Ellen Krause: Okay.
• 27:29
  Ellen Krause: Do you like to Bible journal or do any type of journaling?
• 27:34
  Ellen Krause: Do you have any favorite Bible journaling supplies?
• 27:37
  Evan Marbury: Yeah, so I'm pretty simple with this.
• 27:39
  Evan Marbury: I I keep a journal and I try to write in it every day as I reflect and meditate.
• 27:44
  Evan Marbury: But I also have a second journal that I use for for scripture copying.
• 27:49
  Evan Marbury: So I have recently gotten the habit of just opening a book.
• 27:52
  Evan Marbury: I'm in Philippians right now, opening the book, and they're just writing out the verses.
• 27:57
  Evan Marbury: So not doing any reflection or questioning, but just kind of saturating myself in the scriptures.
• 28:03
  Evan Marbury: And so I write those out, and so I keep those two journals with me.
• 28:08
  Ellen Krause: You know what?
• 28:08
  Ellen Krause: This is the second time in very recent interviews that I've had that people have talked about this writing out the scriptures and that it's so helpful.
• 28:19
  Ellen Krause: Okay, awesome.
• 28:21
  Ellen Krause: Lastly, what is your favorite app or website for Bible study tools?
• 28:26
  Evan Marbury: Yes, I have to go with Logos, uh Bible software for that.
• 28:29
  Evan Marbury: It's uh it is a bit costly, but it's uh a one-stop shop for a variety of Bible study and ministry tools, and I use it fairly regularly for uh for Bible study and preaching, even counseling.
• 28:41
  Evan Marbury: There are some some uh some counseling resources there.
• 28:44
  Evan Marbury: Um so it is a cost, but it's a worthwhile cost.
• 28:46
  Evan Marbury: But I've also used like a blue letter bible, which is an online resource and it's free and it's it's been helpful as well.
• 28:53
  Ellen Krause: Well, we love Logos here at Coffee and Bible Time.
• 28:56
  Ellen Krause: In fact, yeah.
• 28:57
  Ellen Krause: We definitely will put a link in our show notes that we can give you, our listeners, a free trial.
• 29:04
  Ellen Krause: I think it's 60 or 90 days, one of the two.
• 29:07
  Ellen Krause: So try it out for yourself because, like you said, it's it's it's mind-blowing how much information is in there.
• 29:16
  Ellen Krause: And I also have looked at the counseling materials that they have and found them very helpful as well.
• 29:22
  Ellen Krause: Well, Evan, thank you so much for joining us, for reminding us that caring for wounded people isn't just the work of counselors or pastors, but it's part of our calling as a believer.
• 29:34
  Ellen Krause: So it's just I appreciate your input so much.
• 29:38
  Evan Marbury: Yeah, absolutely.
• 29:39
  Evan Marbury: And just again for for the listener or just for for our own souls, I ended the book with a benediction from Romans 15.
• 29:47
  Evan Marbury: And if it's okay, I'd love to say that benediction for for us and for our listeners.
• 29:52
  Evan Marbury: It's uh Romans 15, 13.
• 29:53
  Evan Marbury: It says, May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.
• 30:05
  Ellen Krause: Amen.
• 30:05
  Ellen Krause: Amen.
• 30:06
  Ellen Krause: And with that, we will close out for today.
• 30:09
  Ellen Krause: Thank you so much for listening, and we'll see you next time on the Coffee and Bible Time podcast.
• 30:14
  Ellen Krause: Have a blessed day.