Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to David Gillespie-Pratt about his choice of Spearhead from Space (2/4)

Transcript

Talks to David Gillespie-Pratt about his choice of Spearhead from Space (2/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  Hamster with a blunt pen knife for doing.
• 0:35
  Quicker. Welcome back to a Hamster with a
• 0:38
  blunt pen Knife, the Doctor Who Episode Commentary Podcast.
• 0:41
  I'm David Gillespie Pratt and I am here in 1970 with Mr. Joe
• 0:46
  Ford. Welcome to the 70s.
• 0:49
  You're looking very sort of 2024 for the 1970s, you know, Are you
• 0:54
  a time traveller? I probably am.
• 0:56
  I mean, you know, I've seen the future.
• 0:57
  I can see, you know, see what happens to the 20th century
• 1:00
  after this point. I've seen what doctor comes
• 1:02
  after John Pertway. It's it's not as good, no.
• 1:05
  Is it going Daniel after that? Yeah, I mean, he just sticks
• 1:08
  around for bloody ages. And then there's some wet vet
• 1:12
  that comes in and Ronald McDonald, and then after that
• 1:15
  they'll just cast anyone. Basically any fucker with an
• 1:18
  equity card. So this is peak Doctor Who then,
• 1:22
  is it? This is peak Dr. This is Doctor
• 1:24
  Who, you know, bold and brash and in in colour.
• 1:29
  And yeah, not many shows were in colour at this point.
• 1:33
  You know, David, last week, you know, when we watched Episode 1,
• 1:38
  we left the Doctor in a situation of extreme peril,
• 1:42
  going down that hill in his. Wheelchair Very slowly in a
• 1:46
  wheelchair. Being menaced by who know?
• 1:49
  We don't even know who. Someone tried to kidnap him.
• 1:52
  He was being kidnapped by some men with Vaseline smeared on
• 1:56
  their faces, and he's stumbling through some bushes and somebody
• 2:00
  shot him and possibly swore and yeah, it's.
• 2:04
  It's not the most focused of cliffhangers.
• 2:06
  It's. Probably the we need to put a
• 2:08
  cliffhanger in at this point, so let's just have the doctor
• 2:12
  apparently be shot. What I will say is if that
• 2:16
  cliffhanger is a bit lackluster, the next two are fabulous.
• 2:20
  We've got, I think once we start focusing on the, the, the Auton
• 2:25
  story, the we had some great stuff in episode 1, but there's
• 2:30
  some fantastic direction, visuals, ideas in what's the
• 2:36
  next. Three, are you saying the best
• 2:39
  is yet to come? And babe, won't it be fine?
• 2:43
  Yes. Counters into episode 2 then.
• 2:49
  Go for it. In five, but thank you for
• 2:53
  putting that with me. 4321 off we go.
• 2:59
  Off we go. Into the Technicolor job, don't
• 3:02
  we? Title sequence.
• 3:04
  I mean that that's the thing kind of trying to understand.
• 3:07
  I was doing a bit of research into you.
• 3:09
  When does BBC go into colour? What other series were in colour
• 3:12
  at this point? I think like Dad's Army was
• 3:15
  doing its third series, they had just gone colour as well.
• 3:18
  Although one of those sort of interesting facts that it was
• 3:22
  broadcasting, it was made in colour, but broadcast in black
• 3:24
  and white until about halfway through the third series when
• 3:27
  BBC One went colour. So actually when we watch them
• 3:30
  now, we're we're not watching them as broadcast because they
• 3:33
  were black and white, but. First episode of episode 3,
• 3:37
  series 3 of That's Army. That's the one where they're all
• 3:40
  running through the fields after that balloon, isn't it?
• 3:43
  I think they really went to town with the location work in that
• 3:45
  first one. And it's like we're in and but
• 3:48
  the first one in colour was branded, which I think is 1 the
• 3:51
  most famous episodes that apparently is the first one in
• 3:53
  colour. But the, the interesting fact I
• 3:56
  found out was what what were the first programmes on BBC One in
• 3:59
  colour? And it's like, well, there was a
• 4:00
  music, there was a concert in the weather.
• 4:02
  But the first drama, if I've read Genome correctly and
• 4:07
  someone doesn't correct me, the first drama on BBC One in colour
• 4:10
  was an episode of Star Trek. It was Arena.
• 4:16
  So Arena was the first colour drama on BBC One.
• 4:20
  OK, and obviously not made by the BBC.
• 4:22
  Not. Made by the BBC, but I think
• 4:24
  they might have had Dixon or Doc Green or something later on that
• 4:26
  day in colour, which I think is probably lost as well.
• 4:29
  Although they did because that was also one of the other 1970
• 4:33
  programmes I watched and they had episodes shot all on film as
• 4:37
  well. So I think for the audience, I
• 4:40
  wonder if they could just, we're used to every now and again your
• 4:44
  programmes were just having it would have episodes of stories
• 4:46
  that were just all film and I think.
• 4:48
  That's a bit exciting though, don't you think?
• 4:50
  To be a viewer, then to be watching things in colour for
• 4:53
  the first time. In colour and and Doctor Who was
• 4:57
  a big launch as well because it got the Radio Times cover.
• 4:59
  It got the first week of January 1970.
• 5:02
  You got Pertwee in colour on the cover.
• 5:04
  You know, this was a series. They were saying War Games was
• 5:07
  getting 3,000,000 viewers. So the fact that not only was it
• 5:11
  keeping it slopped, it was in colour, it was all on film.
• 5:13
  It's getting the Radio Times cover.
• 5:15
  So someone, somewhere definitely had confidence that this was
• 5:20
  going to continue. I mean, what?
• 5:23
  They probably watched it. Can I say that The West Wing
• 5:27
  gets a lot of kudos for their talking and walking shots as if
• 5:31
  they invented it for the first time?
• 5:33
  I've seen so much of it here in Spearhead from Space decades
• 5:36
  earlier. I.
• 5:38
  Mean, like a lot of people do with The West Wing and The
• 5:41
  Sopranos, they claim that it invented this type of
• 5:44
  television, that type of television.
• 5:45
  It's like that's what happens if you only watch American
• 5:49
  television from the 90s and the naughties and another tracking
• 5:52
  shop, walking and talking. Gorgeous.
• 5:55
  Yeah. And it's and it's a gorgeous day
• 5:57
  for it as well. And they were lucky with their
• 5:59
  weather. Isn't this where they shot
• 6:01
  robot? It's that training place, isn't
• 6:03
  it? I think it.
• 6:04
  Can see. I think it's the same place and
• 6:05
  probably filmed the same sort of practicalities of it's BBC
• 6:09
  property. It probably costs us next to
• 6:11
  nothing to shoot on it, and that's why they're able to do it
• 6:13
  on film, because they ought to do it effectively on the cheap.
• 6:16
  Can I say something about the economy of how time passes in
• 6:20
  this as well? I think Robert Holmes does his
• 6:23
  transition. So we we went from the doctor
• 6:25
  being apparently dead on the floor and the soldier goes, is
• 6:29
  he dead, Sir? And then it cuts straight to the
• 6:31
  hospital with the doctor going no.
• 6:34
  And then here it's like we found this thing, this fragment here,
• 6:37
  it's plastic. And then we're straight to the
• 6:40
  plastics factory. He's doing it really snappily.
• 6:43
  And it's like we, right, we need to, we're moving the story on.
• 6:46
  We need to we need to talk about the plastic factory, we need to
• 6:48
  get there, and here we are. I find this all very chilling,
• 6:52
  pricking the eyes of these dollies and oh the the.
• 6:55
  The stuff of the dolls is quite no.
• 6:57
  Then none of them look. At eyes, they're horrible.
• 7:00
  And I mean, these dolls are terrifying anyway.
• 7:03
  And. So that's a real, a real
• 7:06
  factory, yeah. I think that's a real factory.
• 7:08
  I think that's probably some real product.
• 7:10
  She, I think she's meant to be an Auton as well, The Auton
• 7:13
  secretary. And yeah, Oh yeah, just said
• 7:16
  you're new, aren't you? And she's got the shiny face.
• 7:21
  And then the music. Here it goes.
• 7:23
  And now we're going back to doing Sinister atmosphere and
• 7:28
  they it's probably if it's in this episode or in the next one.
• 7:31
  There's the bit with Channing at the glass and, Oh yeah, the.
• 7:35
  Brilliant looks at him, doesn't he?
• 7:37
  And I think that I'm sure that's the we found that glass on the
• 7:40
  day. I mean, look at him on the space
• 7:42
  there. He's absolutely.
• 7:44
  Chilling, I mean. Chilling.
• 7:45
  He's Channing. He's great and and John would
• 7:48
  not. I don't know how old he is at
• 7:50
  this point. This is where I would look it up
• 7:52
  and he's like 35. There's nothing more terrifying
• 7:55
  when you look up the age of some of these actors and they're like
• 7:57
  in their 30s. Younger than me now.
• 8:00
  Yeah, it's like Michael sheared in Pyramids of Mars, I think is
• 8:04
  in like late 30s or something like that.
• 8:06
  You for real I'm. Sure, it's something like.
• 8:08
  That I suddenly feel a lot better, David, thank you.
• 8:11
  But again, look, look at how quickly he's telling.
• 8:14
  So you've got someone coming back to the factory.
• 8:16
  Such great shorthand. Back to the factory.
• 8:19
  He's been to America to get these great deals with the
• 8:21
  dolls, with the Americans, so they could do production over
• 8:23
  there. He's come back.
• 8:25
  The Autons have taken over the factory.
• 8:27
  Everything's changed. So immediately then we know
• 8:29
  something's wrong. And it's was, I think Doctor
• 8:33
  Magazine called it info dumping. And it's like, oh, exposition.
• 8:37
  And it's like there is a skill to doing it well.
• 8:40
  And I think here Robert Holmes, it doesn't feel unnatural.
• 8:43
  He's come back. He's like, what's going on?
• 8:45
  This is because it's always a how do we get characters to say
• 8:49
  things to each other where they probably already know it?
• 8:52
  And I was like, well, this feels more.
• 8:54
  I mean, nothing looks more late 60s early 70s than that John
• 8:59
  Woodnut's glasses. Style.
• 9:03
  It's definitely a look, isn't? It I mean.
• 9:08
  But you're right, there definitely is a skill to it.
• 9:09
  But he says, you know, I went over there, I've got it all
• 9:12
  advanced papers, invoices, the lot.
• 9:15
  And then what happens when I got home and no, give me the push.
• 9:18
  You know, it's, it's, it's very skilfully done.
• 9:21
  And the three of them are acting this really well.
• 9:24
  I don't think we've when people talk Spear from space, it's like
• 9:27
  you've got a really good guest cast as well.
• 9:31
  I can't remember the name of the actor who's playing Ransom, but
• 9:33
  you've got John Woodnut doing the controlled acting really
• 9:36
  well. But Hugh Burden is Channing is
• 9:40
  superb. And just silent.
• 9:41
  You know that silent menace? He's really menacing.
• 9:44
  I like how you can see the effect on John Woodnut when he
• 9:47
  walks in the room as well. He sort of grabs the back of his
• 9:49
  neck. He he he gets more tight and
• 9:51
  controlled and you can see the strings working away.
• 9:54
  But I'm trying to think what else I've seen cuber Nin and the
• 9:59
  only thing I can think off the top of my head he's does an
• 10:00
  episode of The Avengers with other Blackman and he's a bit
• 10:04
  rubbish in that. Oh, really?
• 10:06
  He's not he. He's a bit all over the place.
• 10:08
  He doesn't. Have to do much here but looks
• 10:10
  sinister. He he, he doesn't say much and
• 10:12
  he's he's got a kind of robotic thing.
• 10:14
  And so maybe that's maybe that's one of his strengths.
• 10:15
  He's like, I will not do much with it.
• 10:18
  But he's still, he's sinister and he's a presence.
• 10:20
  When he walked up the stairs, the music kicks in.
• 10:23
  Obviously, Dudley's doing a lot of the work as well.
• 10:26
  This is the best laboratory we've ever had.
• 10:29
  It's the IT. Would never be topped.
• 10:31
  The first of many, many unit labs.
• 10:35
  And it's one of those things where if a scientist watched
• 10:37
  this and looked at this lash up, it looks so impressive, but
• 10:41
  they'd be like, what the hell are they doing?
• 10:43
  Like. Yeah, scientists watching that,
• 10:45
  pointing this out and having no fun because, like, it's not
• 10:49
  real. It's not real.
• 10:50
  I mean, they're probably for some reason because people
• 10:54
  always point it out. In the background of this shot,
• 10:56
  there's A to the right, there's a sort of blue prop that is a
• 11:01
  Cyberman spaceship from the invasion.
• 11:04
  It's the model, so they've just stuck it in to put something
• 11:08
  futuristic looking in where. Is it I can't?
• 11:11
  See it? It's just gone now.
• 11:12
  It's basically. If it comes up again, I'll let
• 11:16
  you know. You see?
• 11:16
  In that tube there behind her, those purple They look like anal
• 11:20
  beads, for God's sakes. Sure.
• 11:22
  What are you growing in your laboratory?
• 11:25
  She she, she was very wide eyed there so.
• 11:27
  Something's. Something's definitely going on.
• 11:30
  Do you know what? In a minute, though, there's the
• 11:32
  ultimate line that explains Doctor Who when she goes Sorry,
• 11:37
  please indulge me. Me.
• 11:39
  What about you? You really believe in a man
• 11:41
  who's helped save the world twice with the power to
• 11:44
  transform his physical appearance?
• 11:46
  An alien being who travels through time and space in a
• 11:49
  police. Box.
• 11:51
  It just covers everything. Airline's so good that they used
• 11:54
  it in the trailer for the Two. Was it 2009 Nine When they
• 11:58
  repeated Spear From Space on BBC Two in the 90s?
• 12:01
  They used that line of dialogue to under score the trailer.
• 12:05
  Because that was. That was a great trailer as
• 12:07
  well. I mean, she does just summarise
• 12:09
  Doctor Who there. Oh God, here we go, Sam Seeley's
• 12:12
  house. Oh.
• 12:14
  Starved shows about to. Turn up when she turns up and
• 12:16
  she's got all this. Is this where the no, the
• 12:19
  soldier hasn't died yet. It's when the soldiers died and
• 12:22
  she comes in and she does the gossip with him and.
• 12:24
  Oh, his face was terrible. He must have seen something
• 12:29
  awful before he died. She don't part with none of his
• 12:33
  shit though does she? Oh God this all torn in the
• 12:36
  woods scared me so much when I was a kid because I used to play
• 12:39
  in the woods all the time. I mean.
• 12:43
  You just got that face. And that's the first time we see
• 12:46
  it as well. It's just crash zooms in and
• 12:48
  there it is. And we know because it's
• 12:51
  reacting to him taking the the all about the all the globe,
• 12:55
  whatever you want to call it. Sphere, The nesting energy
• 12:58
  sphere. What are you doing out here?
• 13:00
  She says. She has got no time for him.
• 13:04
  And I think, yeah, there's, there's not many female
• 13:06
  characters in this, you know, most of them don't even get
• 13:08
  names. But the ones that we've, you
• 13:10
  know, Meg, oh, no, Meg Sealy, she's not Mrs. Sealy.
• 13:13
  She's Meg Sealy. You've got Liz, you've got the
• 13:16
  technicians. But what Doctor Who is doing is,
• 13:19
  at least it's not you debate it with Liz.
• 13:24
  They're not objectifying too much.
• 13:26
  You know, these are characters. They're not ciphers.
• 13:29
  Strong when she's in a situation of peril.
• 13:31
  She grabs her bloody rifle. She grabs her poison straight at
• 13:35
  him. Because it's like when I say we
• 13:39
  watched some of these other show and when whenever they bothered
• 13:42
  to have women in them, a show like UFO, which is trying to be
• 13:47
  sexy. So the opening shot of one of
• 13:49
  the episodes we watched is basically a close up of a
• 13:52
  woman's ass walking into a building, and there's another
• 13:56
  one where they're demonstrating. They didn't do that with Mick
• 13:59
  Seeley. I know.
• 14:01
  I mean, maybe that's what the story's lacking is, you know, a
• 14:03
  few, you know, more attempts to sex it up.
• 14:07
  Actually, maybe not, because although my husband truly admits
• 14:12
  that he sometimes has a little bit of a crush on Nick Courtney
• 14:14
  around this time, I mean. Look at him, you would.
• 14:17
  I, I, I think, I think certainly Brett Vineyer as well.
• 14:21
  He's kind of got, you know, he's got a swarthy charm as well and
• 14:26
  he's got that, that chilled attitude.
• 14:29
  And The thing is, he's so different from what Nick
• 14:31
  Courtney apparently is like was like as well.
• 14:34
  I think that would have an. Eye for the ladies, you know.
• 14:36
  Oh. I believe he did.
• 14:38
  Oh, Speaking of eyes for the ladies.
• 14:42
  Here comes what's his name? General Scobie.
• 14:46
  Scobie. That's it.
• 14:47
  But he gets a great cliffhanger as well, though unusually, a
• 14:51
  guest character gets a cliffhanger of their own.
• 14:54
  As as does at the end of this one as well, because we get
• 14:57
  Ransom gets 1, he gets a. I don't think the rules were in
• 15:00
  place quite yet, are they? No, I think even now this it's
• 15:03
  still fluctuating. It's you know, by the time you
• 15:06
  get to the 80s, it's like it's I have a doctor or companion who
• 15:11
  are the the source of the cliffhanger.
• 15:13
  Very. I can't.
• 15:14
  They're probably some, but there's not many, whether it's
• 15:16
  not main cast focused or. Or if it is guest cars focused,
• 15:21
  there's a regular there somewhere.
• 15:24
  And you've got the car and comedy music again.
• 15:29
  Who's this dandified fellow in the shroud here?
• 15:32
  And yes, he's here and we're going to probably nice little
• 15:35
  joke there. Doctors only.
• 15:37
  Wandering around the hospital getting someone else's clothes
• 15:40
  out of the locker. Am I watching the TV movie?
• 15:43
  Am I watching 11th hour? Both.
• 15:46
  They do like doing that. Do you know what?
• 15:48
  There's been a convention recently at this place where
• 15:51
  there's the shower, and I saw all pictures of my friends in
• 15:54
  the nude in those showers. Well, that's just.
• 15:58
  Rude, I know. It's obviously I wanted to see.
• 16:00
  She's coming up on my Twitter feed if I'm honest.
• 16:02
  Please put NSFW if that's going to happen.
• 16:05
  What? But we're seeing far more, I
• 16:08
  think, I think, I think John's been on holiday.
• 16:12
  Because he starts, he's very pale.
• 16:16
  The rest of his body is quite fans.
• 16:18
  We're talking about John Perry's tan lines.
• 16:21
  That's what this. That's what we've come to.
• 16:24
  But so this is. Who is this then?
• 16:26
  This Is this the the medical expert.
• 16:28
  I think he's he's a medical expert.
• 16:30
  Or is he a consultant? Probably a consultant because
• 16:32
  he's rich. He's a fellow whose clothes the
• 16:35
  Doctor Nix. I think he Nix Nix the Cape and
• 16:37
  the hat. The hat.
• 16:38
  That's because the the clothes on the back of the, I think the
• 16:41
  frilly shirts on the back of the door.
• 16:45
  Look at his little nipples he's got there.
• 16:47
  And the tattoo Which? That's the mark of the Corsair,
• 16:51
  isn't it? It's it's a Time Lord prison
• 16:54
  brand. Is it?
• 16:56
  That's one of the theories. That's one of the things.
• 16:59
  That I'm from David. I wouldn't.
• 17:02
  He might have been the discontinuity guide.
• 17:04
  You know when it I read that recently.
• 17:06
  I know I've got. I dug my copy out.
• 17:08
  I've got my copy sitting literally on the desk here.
• 17:11
  To quote Meg Sealy, David Gillespie Pratt, you've not been
• 17:14
  fever again, have you? Ideas from the Discontinuity
• 17:17
  Guide. Well, you know, they're
• 17:20
  completely peerless, flawless, not full of any inaccuracies.
• 17:23
  Discontinuity guy. I need, I do need to listen to
• 17:26
  that podcast. That's going to be fun.
• 17:28
  World as kind as you might think.
• 17:29
  Actually, they were quite kind. And oh, hats, because.
• 17:34
  No, that one, no. Actually, to be honest, either
• 17:37
  because I think this picture of him with this hat was on the
• 17:40
  video and it was like, because obviously you just like seeing a
• 17:44
  few 3rd Doctor stories going, why is he wearing a hat?
• 17:47
  Well, it gets to a point, you know, whereas Bouffant is so
• 17:49
  wild he'd never get a hat on it. No hat would take it, but the
• 17:54
  hat I don't think lasts beyond maybe this episode.
• 17:58
  I'm not sure you'd have that line anymore.
• 18:00
  You know where the doctor says, well, let's go and see this
• 18:02
  freak, shall we? Yes, I think every now and again
• 18:06
  there's the odd line of dialogue.
• 18:08
  But, you know, this is 6970. It's a different world, you
• 18:12
  know. Let's not cancel it.
• 18:14
  I quite like Doctor Henderson. It's a shame he he sort of
• 18:16
  departs the show now. We don't need you anymore, do
• 18:18
  we? I only.
• 18:19
  Think that might be the last we see of him.
• 18:22
  See, now this car that he goes away in, it's obviously it's not
• 18:27
  Bessie because he says at the end, oh, yes, that car.
• 18:29
  I love that car. Yeah.
• 18:31
  Oh, that was a good job, Perry. Well, you know, all you got to
• 18:35
  do is kind of overdo it slightly and make your eyes feel a bit
• 18:38
  wild. But I think we could have been
• 18:40
  stuck with that one. And I think that looks like an
• 18:43
  absolute. That looks like a proper vintage
• 18:45
  car as well because of that. Going around the death zone.
• 18:49
  Can I remember, was it Patrick Mcnee in The Avengers with his
• 18:53
  Bentley? That was a proper old Bentley
• 18:55
  and he used to complain that it was an absolute pain to drive
• 18:58
  because they've got to double D clutch.
• 19:00
  I don't, I don't drive. I don't know what that means,
• 19:02
  but those classic cars are apparently horrible to drive.
• 19:07
  So I wonder if with Bessie, they've got something that was
• 19:09
  probably just a little bit more straightforward, because if
• 19:12
  you're filming and you're filming on the clock, you don't
• 19:15
  want a car that you have to wait five hours for while somebody
• 19:17
  works out how to start the bloody thing.
• 19:19
  That camera is swooping around this laboratory.
• 19:22
  It's just wonderful. Right.
• 19:24
  Cyberman spaceship is in the very centre of the shot between
• 19:27
  the Doctor and Liz. It's that blue thing.
• 19:31
  OK, I shall. I shall.
• 19:34
  Oh yes. And he's gone.
• 19:39
  Oh, it's gone. Oh.
• 19:40
  We're coming up to that bit I was talking about.
• 19:42
  So in a minute, yeah, he says. Get this globe back to you in HQ
• 19:46
  and the the car this now the car's driven off the road and we
• 19:49
  have a shot through the window. Windscreen with.
• 19:52
  Blood all over it and the fellas face and then the autumn looking
• 19:55
  in. It's very graphic.
• 19:57
  I mean, we, we were quite mean about him and now he's dead.
• 20:02
  So, so, yeah, there's there's the now look at that that that
• 20:07
  is really confronting for a kid. I think.
• 20:10
  I think that's, yeah, I think that's.
• 20:11
  Possibly. Or is that me just as an old man
• 20:14
  saying that? It is a bit, I think I remember
• 20:16
  one for seeing it and seeing it again recently.
• 20:19
  OK, the nest scene in its tank, we're going to see it more of it
• 20:24
  later on. Yes.
• 20:25
  Do you have a point to make? When I watched it with Chris, he
• 20:30
  he, he came up with a wonderful way of describing it.
• 20:32
  And he was like, you're not going to say that on your
• 20:34
  podcast, are you? And I was like.
• 20:35
  Yes, please go on. I I am absolutely going to say
• 20:37
  what? Did he call it?
• 20:39
  What the The Nesting's bumhole? I'm going to say pulsating
• 20:44
  arsehole bumhole do. It definitely.
• 20:47
  It definitely does that later. That that line of Auton.
• 20:52
  So man, they get some mileage out of that.
• 20:54
  And and not because we knew, we know what happens with it.
• 20:58
  We've we've seen clips of it, I've seen bits of it.
• 21:01
  So you kind of know they're going to move.
• 21:02
  But when you get to the cliffhanger, how much would you
• 21:05
  know if you're watching that for the first time, do you know one
• 21:08
  of those is going to start moving?
• 21:09
  You kind of maybe suspect, but it's like it's just so subtly
• 21:12
  done. It's.
• 21:13
  Brilliantly done and you're not sure which one either.
• 21:16
  And it moves very slowly to start with.
• 21:19
  It's great. Here he comes.
• 21:22
  I suppose you want to see my past.
• 21:24
  Are you David? Yeah, well, don't just stand
• 21:26
  there arguing with valid. Get on with it.
• 21:29
  And I think the he, the doctor has arrived.
• 21:32
  The the the cockiness, the arrogance.
• 21:34
  I do believe that you can speak Delphon.
• 21:36
  You know where they talk with their eyebrows?
• 21:39
  And yes, he he flatters Liz and gets her to lighten up.
• 21:42
  I think it's the first time, apart from when she's mocking
• 21:44
  the Brigadier, that she properly starts to chill out.
• 21:48
  Doesn't. She laugh, I think she actually
• 21:49
  laughs and the same. She does and he does the whole
• 21:53
  do I have to call you and do I have to call you Miss Shaw or or
• 21:56
  whatever. And she laughed, and I wonder
• 21:58
  whether or not that's a genuine laugh when she's doing.
• 22:01
  Maybe, maybe because just I do think that Caroline Shawn and
• 22:05
  John Pope, we have great chemistry.
• 22:06
  He didn't, did he? But I think they do.
• 22:09
  I, I think they do. I think he, he's got different
• 22:12
  chemistry with each of the three.
• 22:14
  Yeah, companions, he's having a good time and it's like flexible
• 22:20
  face. He's going to you know, he's
• 22:21
  he's not doing silly voices, but he's still doing the silly face.
• 22:25
  But he won't. This is a the fame was a
• 22:27
  straight role, but he's still getting a bit of humour because
• 22:30
  was it? It was a behind the sofa they
• 22:32
  did on it's season 9 or something and you had Peter
• 22:36
  Davidson and Janet Fielding sitting there going Oh, John's
• 22:39
  dog. He's.
• 22:39
  So. Serious.
• 22:40
  He's so serious, there's no humour going are.
• 22:42
  You mad? Are you mad?
• 22:44
  It's because yes, yes, you're watching the editor's
• 22:46
  highlights. I do wish at some point they
• 22:47
  might acknowledge that they're not watching full stories.
• 22:50
  It's like there is a lot of levity He because he gets set.
• 22:55
  He they sent him up. They're not afraid of sending
• 22:58
  John's doctor up. I think he relaxes and has more
• 23:01
  comedy as the show goes on. So, you know, eventually you get
• 23:04
  him dressing up as that old washer woman in Green Day, you
• 23:08
  know. But no, there is some comedy
• 23:11
  here as well. And you know, comedy is what he
• 23:13
  does. He's great at it.
• 23:15
  He's. Great at it and I think it was
• 23:17
  just that thing of I'm I'm now doing a straight part.
• 23:19
  I want to be taken seriously as an actor because.
• 23:22
  I think that was a good move, though.
• 23:25
  I think we suddenly we really take the doctor seriously again.
• 23:29
  You know he's a proper authority figure.
• 23:31
  Yeah, because Trent wasn't an authority figure and as much as
• 23:35
  Hartnell's Doctor was a presence, he only really in the
• 23:40
  1st 2 and a bit seasons. By the time you get towards
• 23:42
  season 3, the Doctor's lesser of presence there.
• 23:44
  So we haven't had a proper serious Doctor in command of the
• 23:49
  show for a while. And it's that's why you, you
• 23:53
  know, when you bring in a new actor and a new Doctor, getting
• 23:56
  a different dynamic is so crucial, I think.
• 23:59
  I could have done with a second season though with the 3rd
• 24:02
  Doctor and Liz. I I think there was more there.
• 24:05
  I know the big finish of getting a lot of mileage out of it.
• 24:09
  Now I have I have yet to delve into those recast stories
• 24:14
  because I do sometimes struggle with every cast stories.
• 24:17
  But Caroline John does did some companion chronicles.
• 24:19
  The Last Post was amazing. I did listen to some of those
• 24:23
  and they were fantastic. I think yes, the Last Post was
• 24:27
  is one of their best. I think it's we, we, we talked,
• 24:31
  we were talking about Big Finish earlier before we recorded.
• 24:34
  And it's like leaning into what you do best, which is these
• 24:38
  actors, these characters, and the fact that you're audio drama
• 24:41
  as well and not Marvel. Intimacy of that first person
• 24:46
  narration. There's a reason why Companion
• 24:47
  Chronicles were so strong and it's it's a real shame that some
• 24:50
  of the, you know, we've lost two of their best reading.
• 24:53
  We've lost William Russell, we've lost Caroline John, who
• 24:55
  did some of the best. Some people said they didn't
• 24:57
  like her reading of the novelisations that she did.
• 25:01
  I thought she was great. Oh, no, I I thought she was
• 25:04
  wonderful. In fact, she played her sort of
• 25:07
  semi villain in Dust Breeding as well, where her accent veered
• 25:11
  all over the place. It was absolutely hilarious.
• 25:14
  It was really. Awful Which?
• 25:18
  Is all over the place, but she's having fun and that's the most
• 25:21
  important thing. Can I, can I say again about
• 25:25
  just how well plotted this episode is?
• 25:26
  Because you just had a scene there where the doctor came in,
• 25:29
  charmed everybody and then suddenly brought up the plot,
• 25:33
  looked at the plastic globe that they had the piece of it and he
• 25:36
  went, well, the answer's simple. He goes, but these things are
• 25:40
  being collected and taken somewhere.
• 25:42
  The question is where? Cut to the factory.
• 25:44
  He's had general scope. He's having this thing taken and
• 25:47
  he's breaking in. Who we saw earlier.
• 25:50
  It's brilliantly done. It's.
• 25:52
  So I think this is where Holmes gets it right.
• 25:54
  He knows how to cut from 1 scene to another and it's it's always
• 26:00
  moving the story on. I think obviously it's the
• 26:04
  shorter of the four stories this this season and it has probably
• 26:09
  a little bit less character to it.
• 26:10
  There's, like I said before, there's not, there's not a lot
• 26:13
  of depth to the story, but what there is, there's an atmosphere,
• 26:16
  there's tension, and it is so well directed.
• 26:21
  I mean this. Oh my God.
• 26:23
  The OK the the guerning probably probably should have cut that on
• 26:30
  the shot of the the. Autumn, It's exactly what I'll
• 26:32
  be doing if a shot Winder dummy came at me with a big.
• 26:35
  Gun, I mean, you know, you just stand there and just pulling
• 26:39
  faces, you know. I mean, I think I don't know how
• 26:41
  much is in the reprise. It's one of those reprises
• 26:43
  that's different. So whether or not he's gurning
• 26:45
  or not, he just does a bloody runner, which is probably what
• 26:47
  he should do, but that's proper cliffhanger acting.
• 26:50
  But I think that now the plot is running, you know, like, like
• 26:53
  we, we know there's a design to these meteorites coming down.
• 26:57
  We know they're being taken somewhere.
• 27:00
  There is a plan in place. There's all these dummies.
• 27:03
  What the hell is going on there? And while it's moving at a pace,
• 27:07
  it's also pacing it across 4 episodes because there's a risk
• 27:11
  if you dropped a lot of that stuff in in episode 1 or, or
• 27:16
  earlier. And so you then have that's
• 27:17
  where you get your padding and everything because you obviously
• 27:20
  it's going to get to the climax and it's in episode 4.
• 27:23
  So it's like you have to pace it out in a way.
• 27:26
  The padding is probably bits of episode 1, even though that's
• 27:30
  doing work. But in terms of the autumn plot,
• 27:33
  if you were going to do one of those edited, highlighted edited
• 27:37
  versions or Tales of the TARDIS type version, you'd probably
• 27:40
  lose a lot of episode 1. Yeah, I I think so, but.
• 27:44
  I only, I only don't think it would be.
• 27:45
  I think these things are mostly really well paced.
• 27:50
  I think if you start trying to chop bits out, it just it ruins
• 27:53
  the rhythm that the director has set up through the camera moves,
• 27:58
  the shots, the timing, the music.
• 28:02
  I'm not against against re edits, but I just think I'm.
• 28:07
  Not sure that episode we just watched.
• 28:08
  You could take much out for the story to make sense.
• 28:11
  Yeah, I think it every. Everything is serving a purpose.
• 28:15
  And I mean, they probably would add a jazz score to it, you
• 28:18
  know, and see what happens. And maybe add some flashbacks,
• 28:22
  you know, just in case we've forgotten what's happened 2 1/2
• 28:24
  minutes earlier. Voice overs, you know we missed
• 28:29
  anything. You know, just just in case.
• 28:32
  Just in case. Well, I think things are moving
• 28:36
  at a good pace now. Are you ready to watch episode
• 28:38
  3? I'm.
• 28:39
  Ready for Episode 3? Let's do it.