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#HURDLEMOMENT: What Is Mental Fitness? An Expert On How To Better Exercise Your Brain · Hurdle with Emily Abbate

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Speaker 1: The other thing people can try that's so simple is
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Speaker 1: just a one word answer to how do I want
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Speaker 1: to feel today? Probably not going to say depressed or
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Speaker 1: not motivated or sad. I mean you're going to pick something.
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Speaker 1: And again, I mean it's unbelievable something as simple as that,
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Speaker 1: how you can really prime your mind to look for
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Speaker 1: those moments of I want to feel energized or motivated.
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Speaker 2: Hey everyone, Emily here coming to you from the Age
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Speaker 2: Studio with another installment of Hurdle.
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Speaker 3: Moment from Hurdle, a wellness.
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Speaker 2: Focused podcast where I connect with everyone from your favorite
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Speaker 2: athletes to top experts and industry CEOs about their highest highs,
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Speaker 2: toughest moments, and everything in between. We all go through
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Speaker 2: hurdles in life, and my goal through these discussions is
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Speaker 2: to empower you to better navigate yours and move with
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Speaker 2: intentions so that you can stride towards your own big
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Speaker 2: potential and of course have some fun along the way.
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Speaker 2: Today I am chatting with Mark Champagne. He is the
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Speaker 2: new author of Personal Socrates Questions that will upgrade your
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Speaker 2: life from legends and world class performers, and today we
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Speaker 2: are talking about how to be mentally fit. I know
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Speaker 2: that sounds like such a buzzy term, right, But it's interesting,
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Speaker 2: right because to be mentally fit, to take care of
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Speaker 2: our mental health, it requires some of the same energy
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Speaker 2: that you may be putting into your physical fitness. And
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Speaker 2: so Mark and I today get into that. We talk
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Speaker 2: about hacks for better mental fitness, small actionable tips that
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Speaker 2: you can take into account and execute on a day
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Speaker 2: to day basis, chatting everything from journaling to breathwork, mindful movement,
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Speaker 2: and so much more. I love Mark's attitude on this.
2:01
Speaker 2: It's always fun for me to record with another podcaster.
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Speaker 2: Mark has his own show called Behind the Human. I
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Speaker 2: definitely encourage you to check it out, but recording with
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Speaker 2: another podcast are always a breeze, always nice when we
2:13
Speaker 2: all have some good equipment in the mix. And I
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Speaker 2: just really really enjoyed his optimism and his good attitude.
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Speaker 2: Mark himself has been through a fair share of hurdles,
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Speaker 2: which he talks about in today's episode as well, dealing
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Speaker 2: with feeling like perhaps a lost sense of purpose and
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Speaker 2: a really low hurdle moment that went hand in hand
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Speaker 2: with a massive career pivot.
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Speaker 3: I can't wait for you to listen and hear all
2:36
Speaker 3: about that.
2:37
Speaker 2: Make sure you're following along with Hurdle over on social
2:40
Speaker 2: It's at Hurdle podcast.
2:41
Speaker 3: I am over at Emily a Body, and I.
2:43
Speaker 2: Would love for you to get in on Hurdle's new
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Speaker 2: SMS texting service. You can do that by texting the
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Speaker 2: word welcome to seven three to two Hurdler. Again, that
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Speaker 2: is texting the word welcome to seven three two Hurdler.
2:58
Speaker 3: Do it right now.
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Speaker 2: If you get in on that, you will get exclusive
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Speaker 2: access to new deals, exciting launches, and all of the
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Speaker 2: same inspiration and motivation that you love from Hurdle in
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Speaker 2: your podcast feed directly in your inbox. With that, let's
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Speaker 2: get to hurdling.
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Speaker 3: Today.
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Speaker 2: I am sitting down with Mark Champagne. He is a
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Speaker 2: speaker and author A I love this term mental fitness strategist.
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Speaker 2: How you doing today, Mark?
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Speaker 1: I am one hundred percent. Thank you for having me.
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Speaker 3: I love one hundred percent.
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Speaker 2: You know, I don't know if I've been I don't
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Speaker 2: know the last time I was like truly one hundred percent,
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Speaker 2: But I feel like you could tell me that projecting
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Speaker 2: that could be part of the strategies that we're talking
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Speaker 2: about mental fitness.
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Speaker 1: That's what it is. Even if I'm ninety percent, at
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Speaker 1: least I can will myself to hundred. Nobody cares if
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Speaker 1: I'm not one hundred percent, so I might as well
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Speaker 1: one hundred percent.
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Speaker 3: Nobody else caes I should care. Okay, all right, I'm
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Speaker 3: on board with this. Well, thank you so much for
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Speaker 3: talking to me.
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Speaker 2: You and I are chatting leading up to the release
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Speaker 2: of your new book called Personal Socrates. So tell me
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Speaker 2: a little bit about what Personal Socrates is what readers
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Speaker 2: can expect if they click to buy in the show.
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Speaker 1: Notes, Thank you. Personal Socrates. It's I mean, it's a
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Speaker 1: book of questions essentially, and it's a it's a guidebook
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Speaker 1: to help people find the questions that essentially can unlock
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Speaker 1: wherever you may be or bring some more clarity or
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Speaker 1: some more intentionality to how you're living and thinking. And
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Speaker 1: it's questions just because we're all asking them, but we
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Speaker 1: also sometimes don't ask the most quality questions or enough
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Speaker 1: of them or at the right time. That's the key one, Like,
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Speaker 1: it has to resonate with you, right with where you're
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Speaker 1: at in your life, so that you know. That's why
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Speaker 1: I wrote the book. It helped me pull myself out
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Speaker 1: of a pretty dark moment in my life, probably where
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Speaker 1: I was trending towards a depression of some sort or
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Speaker 1: deeper depression, I should say, And I've just I came
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Speaker 1: out of that realizing that we're all one question away
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Speaker 1: from a completely different life. So let's figure out those questions.
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Speaker 2: As someone who asks, who asks a lot of questions
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Speaker 2: for her job, obviously this totally piqued my interest. I'd
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Speaker 2: be remiss if I didn't poke at you a little
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Speaker 2: bit to talk about what was going on in your
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Speaker 2: life when you felt as though you were at the
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Speaker 2: edge of that dark time, that legitimate hurdle moment.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, that definitely was a hurdle moment. I mean the
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Speaker 1: stage was this. I was sitting in a coworking space
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Speaker 1: in Toronto, Canada, had my laptop open. I was looking
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Speaker 1: at a Apple dashboard that had the metrics for a
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Speaker 1: journaling app that I had co founded three years prior.
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Speaker 1: And the number that was there that was really sticking
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Speaker 1: out was this, this number of App Store impressions and
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Speaker 1: it read eighty six point nine million people. And my
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Speaker 1: next step was to hit delete from app Store. And
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Speaker 1: you know, the business had financially failed for various reasons.
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Speaker 1: But I remember just feeling like, how could we have
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Speaker 1: failed at such a colossal level? You know what would
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Speaker 1: my colleagues think? I left a well paying job and
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Speaker 1: a job I was doing well in and enjoy to
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Speaker 1: jump into this entrepreneurial world. We had advisors, we had
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Speaker 1: investors about to come on, We had all of these
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Speaker 1: content collaborators and brands and people like, what would all
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Speaker 1: of these people think? Having basically now, I'm deleting the
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Speaker 1: app and business alongside my identity for the last or
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Speaker 1: for those three years prior. So that's you know, that's
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Speaker 1: what I mean when in the darkest moments, because you know,
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Speaker 1: not only was I deleting that and like I said,
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Speaker 1: my identity, but it was also the first time in
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Speaker 1: my life where I didn't feel like I had a
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Speaker 1: plan forward and my backup plan, which was to return
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Speaker 1: to the industry that was coming from, just didn't feel
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Speaker 1: aligned anymore. Because I really felt lit up by this
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Speaker 1: work in this mental fitness, but I just deleted the
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Speaker 1: vehicle that was keeping me in the space essentially, so
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Speaker 1: you know what now? And yeah, so I just started
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Speaker 1: spiral into questions that were dragging me into the ground
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Speaker 1: or or digging me deeper and deeper into the ground
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Speaker 1: until finally getting to one that pulled me out of
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Speaker 1: that and remembering all the incredible humans I you know,
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Speaker 1: had the pleasure of interviewing on my podcast Behind the
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Speaker 1: Human and it was just what do I want for
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Speaker 1: my life and not paused the narrative long enough to
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Speaker 1: make a plan.
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Speaker 3: What do I want from my life?
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Speaker 2: It's interesting, right because to have eighty six point nine
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Speaker 2: million people using this tool that you created and then
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Speaker 2: still deem it unsuccessful. What happens to all of those
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Speaker 2: people that are utilizing this tool to become better?
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Speaker 1: Yeah? That so that that was the heaviest of the
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Speaker 1: whole experience, because the other thing was that in our
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Speaker 1: product journey, we weren't at the place yet where we
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Speaker 1: had any type of exporting features. And you know, you're
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Speaker 1: not talking about like a grocery list app. You're doing
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Speaker 1: about someone's journals and share people sharing, you know, their
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Speaker 1: deepest thoughts with themselves. Or there was one I'll never
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Speaker 1: forget one mom emailed at one point just saying, you know,
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Speaker 1: I've captured the first three months of my newborn's life
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Speaker 1: in this app, and oh it's just you know, I
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Speaker 1: took that to the stomach or the heart, I should say, really,
8:43
Speaker 1: and you know, we made the decision as a team,
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Speaker 1: even though we didn't have the feature and we were
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Speaker 1: clearly out of money, that we we put together some
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Speaker 1: sort of option for people to export their data. Wasn't pretty,
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Speaker 1: but you know, we we we we got something done.
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Speaker 1: But that was way right. That was Wayne And at
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Speaker 1: the time, it just it felt, at least for me,
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Speaker 1: it felt like the app was a blip on that journey.
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Speaker 1: I knew there was something inside of myself and knew
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Speaker 1: that I was I was going to continue, even though
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Speaker 1: it felt like I had no idea what was next,
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Speaker 1: but that I was going to continue that journey and
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Speaker 1: continue really helping people with these practices and specifically the
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Speaker 1: narrative around it right opening up a whole host of
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Speaker 1: different people that may not be into journaling or reflection
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Speaker 1: in the first place. There was something there that you
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Speaker 1: kept me going, Okay, there'll be another way. I wasn't
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Speaker 1: sure what it was. And here we are. I mean,
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Speaker 1: we're you know, I'm on that path as we speak.
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Speaker 1: But it that was tough. It's tough when you have
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Speaker 1: a lot. I mean that there weren't eighty million people
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Speaker 1: in the app. There were definitely hundreds of thousands though,
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Speaker 1: so it wasn't insignificant.
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Speaker 2: Right, right, And so tell us then what it means
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Speaker 2: to quote unquote be mentally fit.
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Speaker 1: People use the term mental fitness more and more now, obviously,
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Speaker 1: I mean four years ago when I was first speaking
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Speaker 1: about journaling. I started talking about it in this language
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Speaker 1: because essentially out of necessity, because when I would speak
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Speaker 1: about journaling, people were like, oh, you're talking about the
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Speaker 1: twelve year old girl who's writing her diary, but the
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Speaker 1: boy at school, which there's nothing wrong with that, but
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Speaker 1: not necessarily. I'm talking about really big questions and how
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Speaker 1: people are reflecting, and really that forget the definition of journaling,
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Speaker 1: think of the practice, which is the reflection. Right. So
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Speaker 1: I started speaking about it in mental fitness because we
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Speaker 1: can all relate to physical fitness. And there's also this
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Speaker 1: motivating kind of feel to the term, right, because when
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Speaker 1: we talk about mental health usually there's a stigma associated
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Speaker 1: to that. It usually means that we're somewhere deeper in
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Speaker 1: a home, we're trying to like get out of something,
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Speaker 1: versus mental fitness is like I'm doing whatever I can
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Speaker 1: to train in prime my mind. That will help with
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Speaker 1: my mental health, that will help with my mental resiliency,
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Speaker 1: my mental priming, like everything that is underneath that umbrella.
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Speaker 1: So I see it as the umbrella term for really
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Speaker 1: anything you're doing for the health and performance of your mind.
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Speaker 2: Okay, okay, So beyond journaling, what are other examples of
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Speaker 2: things that you can do to get mentally fit so
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Speaker 2: to speak, or I guess more mentally fit.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, I mean there's definitely a visualization I think
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Speaker 1: is a big one. I mean that one is easy
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Speaker 1: to relate back to athletes. You know, we see that
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Speaker 1: played out all the time. But if you're you know,
11:39
Speaker 1: if you're about to give a virtual presentation or an
11:41
Speaker 1: in person presentation or about to jump on a big podcast,
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Speaker 1: I mean, you could also visualize how you want that
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Speaker 1: person to feel or those people to feel on the
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Speaker 1: other side, you know, how what does that look and
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Speaker 1: feel like? And then you're priming your mind to go
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Speaker 1: down that path. I mean, that's one I also like
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Speaker 1: to and I'd be curious what you're to because I mean,
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Speaker 1: you're prone this space as well. But I like to
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Speaker 1: stack these practices together. So I'll do breath work. For example,
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Speaker 1: in the morning, maybe do a round of like wim
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Speaker 1: Hoff's breath work, and in the breath holds, I'll do
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Speaker 1: the visualization for how I want to feel today, or
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Speaker 1: I'll link in any big goals i may have achieving
12:21
Speaker 1: those goals, and again close as I'm holding for the
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Speaker 1: I think now I'm close to three minutes. Thanks wim
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Speaker 1: As I'm holding, I mean I'm doing something as well.
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Speaker 1: Right when it comes to mental fitness.
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Speaker 2: In terms of what I do to be mentally fit,
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Speaker 2: I would say that my practice is pretty much don't
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Speaker 2: touch my phone until I'm about to leave my apartment
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Speaker 2: for the morning. So most mornings my fitness routine takes
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Speaker 2: me outside, whether that's running or cycling.
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Speaker 3: So that's thing number one.
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Speaker 2: But in conjunction, during that period of time where I'm
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Speaker 2: not holding onto my phone or using it, I will
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Speaker 2: journal first thing in the morning while my espresso makes
13:01
Speaker 2: in the other room. I'm also now using the Core
13:05
Speaker 2: meditation trainer from hyper Rice. I really like this, so
13:08
Speaker 2: I'm doing a meditation guided breathwork sort of scenario for
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Speaker 2: between five and eight minutes, and then recently I haven't
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Speaker 2: been doing I wouldn't say that I'm doing breath work,
13:19
Speaker 2: but I'm now be getting through an injury at the moment,
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Speaker 2: and as a part of that treatment practice, talking about
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Speaker 2: breath and how it activates certain muscles has really had
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Speaker 2: me breathing in a different way for the first time
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Speaker 2: maybe ever, and being really conscious of breathing into my
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Speaker 2: belly and like getting those.
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Speaker 3: Full deep breaths.
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Speaker 2: And so for me, after I like get the coffee
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Speaker 2: and I'm done with the meditation, I'll like sit down
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Speaker 2: for a second and I'll just literally take three deep breaths,
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Speaker 2: like all the way into my belly to this like
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Speaker 2: muscle group that I'm like trying to give a little
13:54
Speaker 2: bit of extra t I'll see you lately, which happens
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Speaker 2: to be in my lower abdomen, and just like telling myself, like,
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Speaker 2: all right, it's time to go after whatever this day
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Speaker 2: has in store for me. I don't necessarily I wouldn't
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Speaker 2: say that I'm like a huge positive affirmations person, but
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Speaker 2: I am like a realist and I'm confident in like
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Speaker 2: what I'm about to go after in the world. So
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Speaker 2: something as simple as saying to myself, like I am capable,
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Speaker 2: I've got this, not maybe something like you are the
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Speaker 2: best thing ever, Like, that's not necessarily where I'm going
14:26
Speaker 2: with my affirmations, but hey, to each their own.
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Speaker 1: Well, that's the thing. I mean, it's whatever works. I
14:31
Speaker 1: mean for me, I share something similar with the coffee
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Speaker 1: and say with an espresso as that's brewing. I mean
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Speaker 1: just again, even being present to that whole experience. You
14:40
Speaker 1: smell the coffee, you can see it. And I typically
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Speaker 1: either read a passage from Ryan Holiday's book The Daily
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Speaker 1: Stoic just to you know, have a mind or a
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Speaker 1: prospective shift, usually in terms of whatever is going on
14:52
Speaker 1: in my life seeing well, wait a second, I mean
14:54
Speaker 1: this has played out thousands of years ago. If they
14:57
Speaker 1: can handle it, so can I. But the other thing
15:00
Speaker 1: people can try that's so simple, is just a one
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Speaker 1: word answer to how do I want to feel today?
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Speaker 1: Probably not going to say depressed or not motivated or sad.
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Speaker 1: I mean you're going to pick something. And again, I
15:16
Speaker 1: mean it's unbelievable something as simple as that. How you
15:19
Speaker 1: can really prime your mind to look for those moments
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Speaker 1: of I want to feel energized or motivated? Yeah, and whatnot? Right?
15:27
Speaker 1: And the more you do that in the morning where
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Speaker 1: you have a little bit more control pre phone, like
15:31
Speaker 1: you're saying, the more you start intuitively doing it across everything, right.
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Speaker 2: Right, So, I mean this sounds like you're hinting at
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Speaker 2: perhaps other reflective exercises that we can use to be
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Speaker 2: mentally fit.
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Speaker 3: The first one you list it off.
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Speaker 2: Here choosing your word for the day, how you want
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Speaker 2: to feel, how you want to show up. What's another
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Speaker 2: example of a reflective exercise that someone could indulge in
15:54
Speaker 2: to feel or to boost their mental fitness.
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Speaker 1: Well, one of the easiest, again is if stacking some
16:01
Speaker 1: practices together. But I've been really trying to take even
16:06
Speaker 1: a short walk right after lunch. I mean, there's obvious
16:09
Speaker 1: health benefits, and there's like glucose bleunting responses that happen
16:13
Speaker 1: and that while doing that, but during the walk, instead
16:18
Speaker 1: of listening to a podcast or music, to actually just
16:21
Speaker 1: walk and be aware of what's around you. And again,
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Speaker 1: the more you're doing that, the more detail you're seeing.
16:29
Speaker 1: Then you start seeing and picking up more detail in
16:31
Speaker 1: your work as well, or you're daily whatever you're working on, right,
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Speaker 1: you start seeing, okay, this is where you know this
16:38
Speaker 1: needs to be changed, or I see this detail because
16:40
Speaker 1: you're you're there's subtle mental fitness training techniques that over
16:44
Speaker 1: time stack up. Just like if you're training for a marathon.
16:49
Speaker 1: I mean you're doing the work, you're building up to
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Speaker 1: that distance and scaling it back and whatnot. Right, it's
16:55
Speaker 1: the same thing when it comes to our mental fitness.
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Speaker 3: Hmmm, okay, So being more pro in your day to day.
17:01
Speaker 2: We talk about the benefit of getting outside talking about
17:04
Speaker 2: this power word, what about I feel often times? I
17:07
Speaker 2: mean we mentioned the practice of journaling, which brings about
17:10
Speaker 2: the topic of gratitude. So how does gratitude play into
17:13
Speaker 2: your mental fitness.
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Speaker 1: It's huge. I mean between gratitude and tapping into the
17:18
Speaker 1: present moment, which usually go hand to hand or hand
17:22
Speaker 1: in hand. I mean that's where you can literally shift
17:25
Speaker 1: your mind immediately into a from a survival state to
17:28
Speaker 1: a creation state, meaning you know, survival state fear, anxiety,
17:33
Speaker 1: not feeling great, not motivated, to creation state, and we're
17:37
Speaker 1: never in both at the same time. The creation state
17:40
Speaker 1: is when you're motivated and driven, excited, you feel good,
17:43
Speaker 1: you're happy, and I mean that's where we do our
17:46
Speaker 1: best work, that's where we feel our best. We're obviously
17:49
Speaker 1: going to oscillate between both of those. But the thing is,
17:51
Speaker 1: when it comes to a practice like journaling or any
17:54
Speaker 1: of these other reflective practices, the more you're doing, the
17:57
Speaker 1: more you're training your self awareness. So you can pick up, oh, okay,
18:01
Speaker 1: wait a second, I'm in that zone right, and then
18:04
Speaker 1: you dive into gratitude or just being present and you
18:08
Speaker 1: can pause that narrative. Like I remember when I was
18:10
Speaker 1: deleting the app. I'll never forget this because, as terrible
18:14
Speaker 1: as it felt, I remember at the end just thinking, Okay,
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Speaker 1: this is probably one of the worst feelings I've ever
18:21
Speaker 1: had in my life. I don't really know what's next.
18:24
Speaker 1: I can't really afford my rent in my house. I
18:27
Speaker 1: don't really want to live in the city. But you
18:29
Speaker 1: know what, I just deleted this app on a laptop
18:32
Speaker 1: that most people in the world don't have access to,
18:35
Speaker 1: and that just, you know, that grounds you pretty fast
18:38
Speaker 1: and at least cuts the narrative for a few minutes
18:42
Speaker 1: to make some different decisions or do something else to
18:46
Speaker 1: pull you out of that spiral. Because we're all I mean,
18:49
Speaker 1: let's be honest, we're all best selling or New York
18:51
Speaker 1: Times bestselling authors when it comes to our internal narratives.
18:54
Speaker 1: I mean they feel so real right most of the time.
18:57
Speaker 1: I mean, those stories don't come to fruition.
19:05
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19:49
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Speaker 2: to check out their denim today. Also want to give
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Speaker 2: actually the publisher of Mark's books, so obviously this is
20:24
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20:27
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21:28
Speaker 3: That perspective shift.
21:29
Speaker 2: It can be really hard to get there, and it's
21:31
Speaker 2: not you know, abnormal if someone has trouble getting there
21:35
Speaker 2: right away. In fact, it would be odd if you
21:38
Speaker 2: instantly went through a massive hurdle and you were like, Wow,
21:42
Speaker 2: this is so great that this unexpected bad thing is
21:45
Speaker 2: happening in my life, like I'm so happy about it.
21:47
Speaker 2: Of course not, it's not going to go like that.
21:49
Speaker 2: But you then, after you feel all the feelings and
21:53
Speaker 2: deal with those things and digest the experience, have the choice.
21:56
Speaker 2: And that's what this show is all about, to figure
21:58
Speaker 2: out how you're gonna move on and how you can
22:01
Speaker 2: shift that perspective to take these learnings from again the unexpected.
22:06
Speaker 1: Yeah so, and here's one thing anyone can do in
22:09
Speaker 1: any of these hurdle moments is just take time. Now,
22:12
Speaker 1: whether that's right during the show or after, but just
22:15
Speaker 1: write down five or ten things or activities or people
22:19
Speaker 1: that you know, without any shadow of a doubt, will
22:22
Speaker 1: put a smile on your face. I mean, I was
22:24
Speaker 1: default into that list all the time. Soon as things
22:27
Speaker 1: came up, I knew that, Okay, if I go for
22:28
Speaker 1: a run, I'm gonna feel better. So you default to
22:31
Speaker 1: that list. Or maybe it's going to visit an art
22:34
Speaker 1: gallery and taking in art or it's a walk, or
22:37
Speaker 1: it's meditation or journaling, but again, even just and it
22:40
Speaker 1: goes back to that example of the guy I was
22:42
Speaker 1: talking about who had the suicidal thoughts, like he had
22:45
Speaker 1: that list, right, he knew he had access to that,
22:48
Speaker 1: And sometimes just knowing we have that that list or
22:52
Speaker 1: those tools gives us the confidence to really navigate those
22:56
Speaker 1: tough moments.
22:57
Speaker 3: On the show, we call that the joy list.
23:00
Speaker 1: Yes, I write about it and call it the happiness
23:02
Speaker 1: list in the book.
23:03
Speaker 3: So there we go, There we go.
23:05
Speaker 2: Okay, So, I mean we've covered a bunch of different
23:07
Speaker 2: strategies here to boost your mental fitness.
23:10
Speaker 3: Is there anything else that we haven't yet touched on?
23:13
Speaker 1: Yes? Because I and I'm guilty of this all the time.
23:18
Speaker 1: I always talk about journaling from this perspective of we're
23:22
Speaker 1: dealing with something that's traumatic or emotionally charged or whatever
23:26
Speaker 1: it is, and you know, we can leverage these practices
23:29
Speaker 1: to pause and get out of it, which which is
23:30
Speaker 1: obviously super useful. But then there's the whole other side
23:33
Speaker 1: of this when it comes to possibility, and I think
23:37
Speaker 1: of a lot of people I've interviewed in the past
23:39
Speaker 1: and just changing the language of or leveraging the language
23:42
Speaker 1: of imagine if X was possible, or imagine if I
23:49
Speaker 1: did this for example, just using that language and you know,
23:52
Speaker 1: related to a project or something that you want to
23:55
Speaker 1: do in your life. Right away you eliminate all the
23:58
Speaker 1: barriers because you're using your mate. There's no rules there,
24:02
Speaker 1: but it unlocks a whole other way of thinking and
24:07
Speaker 1: you know, creativity that then again puts our mind into
24:10
Speaker 1: the state of possibility, and then all of a sudden
24:12
Speaker 1: we can start mapping different plans and actions or tasks
24:17
Speaker 1: and strategies and whatnot and work our ways towards whatever
24:20
Speaker 1: we're you know, we're setting our goals or objectives.
24:23
Speaker 2: To I think oftentimes when something feels off, like we
24:26
Speaker 2: know that something feels off, but it's like making the
24:29
Speaker 2: decision to do something about it.
24:31
Speaker 3: So for someone who might feel.
24:34
Speaker 2: Off but may not want to admit to themselves that
24:37
Speaker 2: like their mental fitness so to speak, is lacking, Like
24:40
Speaker 2: what even is like a diagnostic moment that you have
24:43
Speaker 2: where you're like, man, I really could be a little
24:45
Speaker 2: bit more mentally fit here.
24:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, I mean the question that anyone can ask,
24:51
Speaker 1: and that's in that case to really diagnose what's up
24:54
Speaker 1: is what am I pretending not to know? Right? I mean?
25:00
Speaker 1: And what comes to mind automatically. That's I think most
25:03
Speaker 1: can relate to, and myself included is nutrition. Right, we
25:06
Speaker 1: know when we're eating like garbage or not. We know
25:09
Speaker 1: what we put in. We're either fueling health or disease.
25:11
Speaker 1: It's one of the two essentially, But you know, we
25:15
Speaker 1: we ignore certain points of that, and there's so many
25:18
Speaker 1: there's there are relationships that we pretend that you know,
25:21
Speaker 1: we're good in the past, but maybe have fizzled out,
25:24
Speaker 1: and that's okay, but we haven't let that, you know,
25:27
Speaker 1: relationship go. Then that just creates more mental fog, and
25:30
Speaker 1: mental takes up mental real estate, which affects everything else. So,
25:35
Speaker 1: you know, just spending some time, and I think the
25:37
Speaker 1: biggest thing with any of these prompts or these practices
25:41
Speaker 1: is just to go in and set some kind of
25:44
Speaker 1: rules of engagement for yourself. You know, there's no judgment here.
25:48
Speaker 1: This is a judgment free zone. Write down and the
25:52
Speaker 1: answer to those questions. Don't judge your answers, don't worry
25:55
Speaker 1: about grammar, don't worry about this. Just let out exactly
25:59
Speaker 1: how you're feel. Don't filter anything right, right, and then
26:02
Speaker 1: you know, then you're being true to yourself, which ends
26:06
Speaker 1: up showing up with others as well.
26:08
Speaker 2: For someone who feels as though they are game on
26:12
Speaker 2: with getting in on their mental fitness game, they start
26:15
Speaker 2: the jrenaline, they do the meditation, they're all about this
26:18
Speaker 2: self inquiry.
26:19
Speaker 3: Then they fall off the wagon.
26:21
Speaker 2: What advice do you have for them when it comes
26:25
Speaker 2: to getting back on and the judgment that can go
26:28
Speaker 2: hand in hand with that.
26:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I think it comes back to just cutting
26:32
Speaker 1: ourselves some slack. I mean, we're so hard on ourselves, right,
26:35
Speaker 1: Like if you think of your how you would speak
26:38
Speaker 1: to your best friend or some of your closest family members,
26:41
Speaker 1: and then how we speak to ourselves, they're usually wildly different.
26:44
Speaker 1: So just first acknowledging that and saying you know, and
26:47
Speaker 1: releasing that judgment and that language, and just maybe setting
26:51
Speaker 1: an intention for yourself that you know what I'm going
26:53
Speaker 1: to be. I'm going to be kind to myself. I'm
26:55
Speaker 1: gonna allow myself to restart this whole you know, my practice,
27:00
Speaker 1: but also you know, set yourself up for success and
27:03
Speaker 1: not failure. Don't It doesn't have to be this reintroduced
27:07
Speaker 1: reintroduction of all, like an hour of mental fitness or
27:10
Speaker 1: exercise or whatever it is, right, maybe it's just during
27:14
Speaker 1: that while that coffee is brewin, setting that intention, doing
27:16
Speaker 1: that for seven days and then continuing forward. Even the
27:20
Speaker 1: way I wrote the book, I mean, the whole idea
27:22
Speaker 1: behind it was, even though people seem to be reading
27:25
Speaker 1: it through, I'm like, just slow it down. I mean,
27:27
Speaker 1: read the introduction, but then just pick a profile of morning.
27:30
Speaker 1: They're five to ten minutes max. And that could be
27:33
Speaker 1: your mental fitness, right, and then from that and I'm
27:36
Speaker 1: you know, the book is one example, but any anything
27:39
Speaker 1: that resonates with you and taking a look at your
27:41
Speaker 1: actual routine today, where can you leverage something or bring
27:45
Speaker 1: something in or stack it onto something you're already doing
27:48
Speaker 1: so that you have the most chances of actually sticking
27:51
Speaker 1: with it right right, And then as you know, it
27:53
Speaker 1: just starts to blossom from there and then you start
27:56
Speaker 1: feeling the benefits of that, you start seeing the results
27:59
Speaker 1: and you can tinue forward.
28:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think the starting small tip, whether
28:04
Speaker 2: or not you've fallen on the bandwagon or you're trying
28:06
Speaker 2: to get on it to begin with, is just the
28:08
Speaker 2: most important important tip in terms of don't take on
28:13
Speaker 2: more than you can chew, especially at the beginning, because
28:16
Speaker 2: that intro work, that few minutes a day is what
28:20
Speaker 2: does open up the gateway for anyone to start feeling
28:24
Speaker 2: better in their routine. Right, And when you start to
28:28
Speaker 2: experience that, then you have the opportunity to build on
28:32
Speaker 2: it and build in it, build on it intelligently. That
28:34
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that, you know, you nail three minutes of
28:38
Speaker 2: mental fitness a day and then you're like, all right,
28:40
Speaker 2: I'm ready to tack on another twenty, Like that's not
28:43
Speaker 2: really realistic. But if you can start to experience the
28:46
Speaker 2: benefits from those three minutes and then add on another
28:49
Speaker 2: one or two and that continues over time, then that's
28:52
Speaker 2: probably a better strategy for you to make this a
28:55
Speaker 2: constant and regular part of your routine.
28:58
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well and again, and like when I deleted the app,
29:01
Speaker 1: it's not like the four years of interviews and practices
29:06
Speaker 1: just vanished from my mind. But I was so clouded
29:09
Speaker 1: by fear and uncertainty that my only step was to
29:13
Speaker 1: dial into the present moment some gratitude to restart those practices.
29:18
Speaker 1: So you know, I mean, for all intentsive purposes, I
29:21
Speaker 1: had the whole toolkit there. But even for myself, I mean,
29:26
Speaker 1: start small and just start building it up. And you know,
29:29
Speaker 1: now I'm back to a point where my like my
29:33
Speaker 1: morning time for my mental fitness and physical fitness is
29:37
Speaker 1: it takes a lot to move that that period in
29:39
Speaker 1: my morning because you know, it's about an hour that
29:41
Speaker 1: basically dictates the next twenty three hours of the day, right.
29:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that that's really important to recognize
29:48
Speaker 2: as well, right because like it could feel like this
29:51
Speaker 2: amount of time that you're trying to dedicate towards your
29:53
Speaker 2: mental and your physical as you group them together, could
29:56
Speaker 2: be you know, a large chunk, so to speak. But again,
30:00
Speaker 2: that time period in the morning is actually what impacts
30:05
Speaker 2: the rest of your time in the day. And I
30:07
Speaker 2: don't need to tell you know, the people listening to
30:09
Speaker 2: this show that I know that all of these individuals
30:11
Speaker 2: are people that want the best for themselves and for
30:13
Speaker 2: their health. But getting started obviously a huge hurdle. Finding
30:17
Speaker 2: e routine that works for you a hurdle, and sticking
30:19
Speaker 2: with it also our hurdle.
30:20
Speaker 3: But knowing that.
30:21
Speaker 2: You're not the only person that's trying to overcome these
30:24
Speaker 2: on your quest to be a little bit better every day.
30:26
Speaker 3: Well that can be you know, kind of comforting as well.
30:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's where the stoicism came Inmember. I wrote
30:32
Speaker 1: a profile on Marcus Aurelius and he's talking about you know,
30:36
Speaker 1: people you know, working towards a vacation. I mean this
30:39
Speaker 1: is thousands of years ago, right, we're all you know,
30:41
Speaker 1: things haven't changed that much, but we all have the
30:44
Speaker 1: decision or the ability to decide how to process, you know,
30:48
Speaker 1: what we're what we're what we're feeling, and what we're
30:51
Speaker 1: experienced with and others have done it before. I'm not
30:54
Speaker 1: inventing questions. I'm not inventing these practices, but I'm trying
30:57
Speaker 1: to bring a narrative that's relatable to all of us.
31:00
Speaker 2: What do you think is one of the most important
31:03
Speaker 2: questions that someone can ask themselves when it comes to
31:06
Speaker 2: establishing a mental fitness routine.
31:09
Speaker 1: Well, I really think it comes back to what you're
31:12
Speaker 1: calling the joy list. I mean, what makes you happy?
31:16
Speaker 1: You know, what puts a smile on your face, What
31:19
Speaker 1: puts you in a flow state where you know, time
31:22
Speaker 1: slows and you feel really lit up by your work.
31:25
Speaker 1: It's not to say that we're going to be on
31:27
Speaker 1: this twenty four hour happiness fest. But I mean, at
31:30
Speaker 1: least we know the things that will put us into
31:32
Speaker 1: that state. And especially when it comes to flow states,
31:35
Speaker 1: I mean there's some serious science behind this. If you're
31:38
Speaker 1: in a flow state, and this is coming from Stephen
31:41
Speaker 1: Cotler over at the Flow Research Collective, I mean, those
31:44
Speaker 1: effects can show up three days after you've been in
31:47
Speaker 1: a flow state. So again, if you're trying to do
31:50
Speaker 1: really creative work or strategic work, I mean jumping into
31:56
Speaker 1: I don't know what your flow states may be. When
31:58
Speaker 1: I was writing the book, I was trying to get
32:00
Speaker 1: a couple snowboard runs in on my writing days, knowing
32:04
Speaker 1: that that would really help the afternoon of writing. And
32:07
Speaker 1: you know that wasn't a crazy I went twice. I
32:10
Speaker 1: mean I happened to live near a ski hill, so
32:13
Speaker 1: you know, going for two runs is not a huge deal.
32:16
Speaker 1: But I could achieve that too by going for a
32:18
Speaker 1: twenty minute run or something. Right, just like, find what
32:21
Speaker 1: works for you and just make sure that those moments
32:24
Speaker 1: are in there in your day. They may feel like
32:27
Speaker 1: at first that okay, that's not helping my productivity or
32:30
Speaker 1: the checkof task off your list, but actually, you know,
32:33
Speaker 1: it really is affecting your quality of work.
32:36
Speaker 2: I know that we reference doing a lot of these
32:38
Speaker 2: mental fitness tools, tricks, habits, completing them in the morning,
32:42
Speaker 2: but mental fitness isn't something that just has to happen
32:45
Speaker 2: first thing in the day. So what do you have
32:47
Speaker 2: to say about that and timing pending on every individual.
32:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's a great question. That's a real journey.
32:54
Speaker 1: I mean, I've noticed myself goal on that journey. I'm
32:57
Speaker 1: sure you've been there as well, and we're really surrounded
33:00
Speaker 1: by this stuff. So I would say, first, obviously, not
33:04
Speaker 1: everyone's a morning person, but I mean, statistically speaking, odds
33:09
Speaker 1: are you have the best chance of success if you
33:11
Speaker 1: can own that morning right before work and phone and
33:14
Speaker 1: stuff like that. So I mean i'd highly recommend starting there.
33:17
Speaker 1: But then what happens. At least what I've noticed is
33:21
Speaker 1: that I'll go to any of those practices whenever they're needed,
33:24
Speaker 1: if something comes up in the middle of the day,
33:26
Speaker 1: or if I have a call or something that you know,
33:28
Speaker 1: just rocks me emotionally. I know that three minutes of
33:32
Speaker 1: breath work in a meditation app or I use oak
33:36
Speaker 1: meditation for breath work I know, immediately resets my frame
33:40
Speaker 1: of mind. Or I'll journal on what's going on just
33:44
Speaker 1: to find clarity in terms of what I'm trying to
33:46
Speaker 1: plan out, for example, and I'm really not as concerned
33:50
Speaker 1: about where I'm journaling. You know, that's the other thing, right,
33:53
Speaker 1: we need to keep it all in one, you know,
33:55
Speaker 1: one pen to paper. It doesn't necessarily matter as long
33:58
Speaker 1: as you're doing the practice, which is the reflection right
34:01
Speaker 1: for journaling.
34:03
Speaker 2: Judging that experience too hard, Yeah, exactly, so many, so.
34:07
Speaker 3: Many good tips here.
34:08
Speaker 2: Mark, When it comes to what excites you right now,
34:12
Speaker 2: what you're looking forward to aside from this book launch,
34:16
Speaker 2: give it to me.
34:19
Speaker 1: The thing that I'm most excited for the unknown that
34:22
Speaker 1: is starting to develop, you know, the unknown of what's
34:26
Speaker 1: going to happen with this book and everything that's linked
34:29
Speaker 1: to it, and the unknown, you know, linking up with
34:32
Speaker 1: people like yourself and having these conversations, whereas before that
34:36
Speaker 1: would have been fear of the unknown, for example, And
34:38
Speaker 1: now I'm just I just feel really aligned with the work. Yeah,
34:41
Speaker 1: and I'm excited about it because I know I can't
34:45
Speaker 1: even think of the various opportunities that I know will
34:49
Speaker 1: open up because I'm trying to be really clear going
34:52
Speaker 1: into the whole process right then you know, then I
34:55
Speaker 1: can say, oh, yeah, this makes sense, go down this
34:58
Speaker 1: path for example. So I'm excited for that.
35:01
Speaker 3: I love that. I love that.
35:02
Speaker 2: Well, there's so many great tips and tools that we
35:05
Speaker 2: chatted about when it comes to establishing a mental fitness routine.
35:08
Speaker 2: How can the hurdlers continue to follow along with you,
35:10
Speaker 2: get new tricks and tips from you, and keep up
35:13
Speaker 2: with your everyday life because give us all of the details.
35:17
Speaker 1: Absolutely well, thank you again for lovely questions in your time.
35:21
Speaker 1: I mean, the easiest place is just my personal website
35:25
Speaker 1: behind the human dot com. I'll have links to my
35:29
Speaker 1: podcasts as well as where they can get the book.
35:31
Speaker 1: I mean, baron Figg's website as well. Baronfig dot com.
35:34
Speaker 1: There's a whole tab there for personal socrates, and they're
35:38
Speaker 1: just they've been just so awesome to work with. So yeah,
35:41
Speaker 1: I mean, that's essentially where you can find me. I'm
35:44
Speaker 1: super accessible, So shoot me a message. I would love
35:47
Speaker 1: to know which questions unrelated to the book or related
35:52
Speaker 1: if you'd like, but which questions have helped you on
35:55
Speaker 1: your journey and which ones you reflect on on a
35:57
Speaker 1: frequent basis.
35:58
Speaker 3: I love it.
35:59
Speaker 2: I'm over at Malaia Body and at Hurdle Podcast. Another
36:02
Speaker 2: hurdle conquered. Catch you guys next time.