Latest / Pod Therapy / #459: Neurdivergent Grief, Taking Banter Personally

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#459: Neurdivergent Grief, Taking Banter Personally · Pod Therapy

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I think just eye contact.
• 0:02
  Speaker 2: Acknowledging that you exist.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Like a sympathetic thank you. Just a little bit of
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: a thanks. Hey, man. Thanks. Close call. Oh, you really
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: saved me there. Also, here's a little bit of money.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Just a little.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: And the handy that you mentioned.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: And a courtesy handy. This is Ikea.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Doesn't hurt to ask.
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, or he offers to transport your shelves. Fine!
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: That would be fine, too. Can I move your shit
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: for you?
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: He was hoping you lost the phone.
• 0:34
  Speaker 4: From fabulous Las Vegas, Nevada, this is Pod Therapy. Real people,
• 0:38
  Speaker 4: real problems, and real therapists. You can submit your questions
• 0:41
  Speaker 4: anonymously at podtherapy.net or email us at podtherapyguys at gmail.com.
• 0:47
  Speaker 4: And now broadcasting from the 3445 Tetramethylcyclohexa 2.5 Dione Studio,
• 0:56
  Speaker 4: also known as Penguis Studio.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Penguinon. Penguinion Studio. Sorry, Nick. No, you're not. That's Jim.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: That's Whitney. That's Nick. It's time for some pod therapy.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: As I started reading this, I remembered that this was
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: coming up. and my mood just died oh you remember
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: that you had to do the studio.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: Announcement that name you saw it because i had i.
• 1:20
  Speaker 4: I saw it when i put this together and i
• 1:21
  Speaker 4: was like you got to be fucking kidding me nice
• 1:25
  Speaker 4: and then i forgot about it and then i was
• 1:27
  Speaker 4: in a good mood and then i started reading this and.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: I started thinking about your grass and surviving the great
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: storm yeah and now i have to pronounce scientific names. Yep.
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: Patreon.com slash therapy. You too can name the studio. It's
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: up there on the website. You don't even have to
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: be a subscriber. You could just pay to name the studio.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: You can just do it. You can just do that.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: And there's nothing we can do. Nothing we can do
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: to stop you. We can't stop it. Except we can
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: after you've done it once. Once you've done it once,
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: we have no way of letting you do it a
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: second time because I refuse to learn how. So that's it.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: So you only have to go through that once from
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: that one person. Unless other people now realize how much
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: fun it is to make you read a phone book
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: whenever you... Yeah, it's pretty much just that or supple things.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: Just over and over again for naming the studios. They
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: never fucking troll Whitney. I'm not going to say it.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: It's always us.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: Love you guys.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: I won't say it because I know it'll become a drop.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: Supple things.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: What's that? Nothing. Ain't getting me. Yeah. Yeah.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay. Jenkins got a mission now.
• 2:31
  Speaker 5: Oh, fine.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: I like what just happened. No problem. Speak of the
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: devil and he will appear.
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: I had something I thought about you guys about this week.
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: I went and saw Lynyrd Skynyrd this last week.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: Oh, my gosh. A lot of people think of us
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: when they go see Skynyrd. Mm-hmm. You know who this
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: guy reminds me of? That's right. We are the Lynyrd
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: Skynyrd of podcasts. Of therapy podcasts.
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: So do you know the story of Lynyrd Skynyrd? Do
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: you know who Lynyrd Skynyrd is, first of all? Now
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: it's the relatives of the original band.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: A little bit, yeah.
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: So yeah, Lynyrd Skynyrd, they're a band. Their biggest hit
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: is Sweet Home Alabama. Also Free Bird.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I like those songs.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, they've got some fucking bangers. Give Me
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: Three Steps. That's my favorite. Three Steps in there. That Smell.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: That's another real good one.
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: That's the name of the song?
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: Yep. Ooh, that smell. Can't you smell that smell? Isn't
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: it funny how you and I are both.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: Are you all lying?
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: I know, right? I'm not sure that they're serious. Like,
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: if they hadn't harmonized on it, I would think there's
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: no way that's a.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: Real fucking song.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: That's exactly what I thought.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: I'm like, they sent us the same song, though.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: There's no way. There's no way that's real. We set
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: this up months ago.
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: Playing along.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: I also believe that.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: The song called That Smell.
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: But the original Leonard Skinner, the band, most of them,
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: I think all but one of them or so, I'm
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: probably wrong on the numbers there, But at least the
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: vast majority of them died in a plane crash in
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: the 70s.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: The 70s? Yeah. A long time ago.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: So Ronnie Van Zandt was the lead singer, and he
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: was also the main writer. He wrote all those iconic
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: songs and everything. About 10 years later, his little brother,
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: Johnny Van Zandt, took up the mantle.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: Ronnie and Johnny? That's it. That's it. I think he's
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: full of shit. This is up there with the smell song.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: Is this polymesting all over again?
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: Took up the mantle. They know we don't know. You
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: have no idea. I can say anything I want.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: I'm just going to believe everything you say. I believe Jacob.
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: So about 10 years later, Johnny Van Zandt took up
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: the mantle and started performing with some of the other
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: relatives and friends and that kind of thing of the
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: original Lynyrd Skynyrd. And they've been touring as Lynyrd Skynyrd
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: ever since then.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: They've been doing it for about 40 years.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: Oh, my gosh.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: Like....
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: This version of Lynyrd Skynyrd, and they put out multiple
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: albums with new music and everything in that time.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: Nobody gives it. Nope. You're not the only person who
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: doesn't know about that. Okay. Okay.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: I'm feeling better then.
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: Even in Lynyrd Skynyrd circles, they don't know about the
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: new stuff.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: Okay. But I think it's like four albums, maybe even six,
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: somewhere like that, that they've put out.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: And a couple of them that are like, they've got
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: some decent stuff on there. It's not, nothing like... Nothing
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: like the smelling song. Right, right. Ooh, that smell.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: The smelling song.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: This is true. They actually wrote another song later, the
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: new version, was ooh, that taste. Didn't get the airplay
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: that the smell did. Sequels rarely do.
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: So the weird thing, and the reason I thought about
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: you guys, is a large part of the show, obviously,
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: is talking about his very dead brother. And I was like,
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: this man has been eulogizing his brother for 40 years.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: What do you think about that?
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: I can't imagine it.
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: It's wild. I'm waiting for how this ties into us. Well,
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, just the psychological nature of it.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: I was like, how do you feel?
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: I'm like stretching this, like, who is our.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: Dead brother in this story?
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: This is a therapy podcast. This show, as you know,
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: for the last 10 years, always starts with pouring one out.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: That's right. to Leonard Skinner. That's right.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: Damn. So a huge, like in between each song or
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: just opening it up, he's like, this is for my brother.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: It's not between every song, but it's often. And it's intense.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: They show like a slideshow and stuff?
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: That's it.
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: Like there's stuff up on the screen. There's candles on
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: the screen with the names of each of the band
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: members and like the candles go out.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: So you can't be doing a tribute tour for 40 years.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: He has been....
• 6:40
  Speaker 4: Doing that for his brother longer than his brother was alive.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: Oh, yes. But was it longer than the Confederacy?
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: How old was he when he died?
• 6:48
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: Much longer. Well, he was probably in his 20s when
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: he died. Yeah, I think so. Oh, my gosh. Yeah,
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, rock and roll, yeah, they all died. Oh,
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: it was a plane crash. Yeah.
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: I guess in my mind, that band, I mean, this
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: sounds stupid, but it's old. Obviously, the band is old.
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: I don't know. It just feels like old people.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, all of that stuff is, all of those
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: songs are from the 70s.
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: So I feel like, yeah, yeah.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: Hmm. Side note, it was a lot of fun.
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: They closed the show with Sweet Home Alabama because they
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: know their audience.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: They know they'll stay till you hear it.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And then, you know, lights out, they're offstage, time
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: for the encore. Free bird.
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: Of course.
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I was like, I get to.
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: genuinely stand here in the dark and yell free bird. Yes.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: With everyone with a shared experience.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: That's it.
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: We all get to just sincerely yell and like call
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: for free bird. And then they come out and do,
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: you know, a 15 minute long free bird.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: Tear the house down, guitar solos on top of guitar solos.
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: There's eight different people taking guitar solos at different times.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that's incredible. They understood all of the assignment.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: The second concert is a free bird. Yeah.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: Do you think that part of the eulogizing of the
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: original band members, do you think part of it is
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: more like they just know the audience better wishes that
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: were like the original members and they're bringing them up
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: for that reason.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: But doesn't that make it worse? Like, yes, I think
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: that may be part of it. There's a balance.
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I think that's kind of shitty.
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: But, like, if you're Johnny Van Zant and, like, part
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: of the emotion is these people would rather my brother
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: be here than me.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: Like, that doesn't help. Yeah.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: That doesn't make.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: Me feel better about it. You need to nod to it.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: I don't think it. That's what I'm saying.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: Embrace. Yeah. Nod to it. Embrace it. This one's for you.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: And then keep going.
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: I mean, I've seen bands that have lost members and
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: they acknowledge it on stage. I've seen fucking Queen. I mean,
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: they acknowledge Freddie Mercury obviously not being there. But yeah,
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: it's not every song. It's also not their sibling that
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: they took over for after they died.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: It's not like he was also in the band. He
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: wasn't like the co-headliner in the band and the other
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: guy died and he just kept doing it.
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: And he started doing it 10 years later. He started
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: doing it 10 years after Ronnie died.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: That is interesting.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: That is interesting. Maybe it is. Yeah, just an emotional.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Ugh.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: Very interesting. Jacob was thinking about us when he was
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: at that concert. That's what I heard.
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: I was thinking about people that need therapy. I was like, man,
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: I hope this man is getting some fucking therapy over this.
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: This just seems like a fucking slog.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: Whenever he sends me a text that just says, thinking
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: about you, I just say, thank you. I don't ask questions.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: Something about Skinner. Appreciate it.
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: I assume there's something going on with Skinner.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: He's usually at a concert. That's when I get a text.
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: I don't know what they're... It's usually a... power ballad.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: Then all of a sudden, hey, man. Just want you
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: to know. Hope you're doing well. That's right. Patreon.com slash therapy.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: You can hear all about our survival of the great
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: tropical storm Rachel that tried to kill us in Vegas
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: and how we made the best of it. We were
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: actually thrilled. We all had a really good weekend, got
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: a lot of chores done. You can hear about our
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: Ikea shenanigans, Nick's continued war. with making his home the
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: way he wants it to be, and me getting some
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: fucking chores done.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: Wow, his home the way he wants it to be.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: Well, the way Laura wants it.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: It's all about Nick over there, I guess.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: Until she marries into it, it ain't hers. That's right.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: That's right. Anyway, we've got some great questions for you,
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: and we're leading off the order today. She knows her place.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: Do not think she does. Guarantee she is the boss
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: of that house. I didn't say what it was. That's right.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: Good point. She knows her place as the boss of
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: the house. Neurodivergent grieving. This is the condensed version of
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: this one?
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: It is.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: All right. Here we go. Hello, pod therapy pals and Jim.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: My father died this week. Stay down. Jesus. My father
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: died this week, and I'm struggling with how to manage
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: everyone else's reactions to it. Here's the wrinkle. My father
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: has died... several times. In 2011, he had a massive
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: heart attack at home. He was unresponsive, not breathing, and
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: had no pulse.
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: Oh, for just a moment, I was really excited, because
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: I thought we were going to have a case of
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: somebody faking their death.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: I kind of thought that, seriously.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh, repeated death faking!
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: This is going to be fucked up.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: I thought we were experiencing a new religion. Yeah, this
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: is how it starts. Everybody's mourning my friend Jesus, but
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: here's the thing. He's not dead. I saw him at
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: the bar. I put my fingers through the holes in
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: his hands. In 2011.
• 11:42
  Speaker 5: He did not like that at all. Why would a
• 11:46
  Speaker 5: person do that to another person?
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: In 2011. I can see that there are holes in
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: his hands. Why would I need to finger them? Why
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: would I need to do that? Cosplay is not consent.
• 11:55
  Speaker 5: Also, doesn't it sound worse, Christians, when you refer to
• 11:58
  Speaker 5: it as fingering the holes? Doesn't that make you feel
• 12:02
  Speaker 5: a little worse about that part?
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: It's not the worst thing they could have done to
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: the holes. It's not the only thing they did to
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: the holes. Take the W. In 2011, Dad had a
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: massive heart attack at home. He was unresponsive, not breathing,
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: and had no pulse. He was taken to the hospital,
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: put in an ice bath, and, through modern medicine and
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: an unbelievable amount of luck, brought back to life. When
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: mom called to tell me he had died, I hung
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: up and went back to work. My parents lived in
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: another state. I was on a deadline and I needed
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: to finish the job so I could afford to travel
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: home for the funeral. I did not handle it well.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: I cried, screamed, punched things, and mentally cataloged every regret
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: I had about my relationship with my father. The fallout
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: from how I behaved during that period eventually cost me
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: my job and derailed my life for about 10 years.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: Don't underestimate grief, kids. I learned that the hard way.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: Except that when I finally got home, Dad was alive.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: He'd been resuscitated, and I had been given a second chance.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: My parents and I had a complicated relationship, but that
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: experience changed everything. My list of regrets became a literal
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: to-do list. For the next 15 years, I made a
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: point of spending time with Dad, asking the questions I
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: wanted to ask, and having the conversations I didn't want
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: to leave unfinished. Then a month later, he had another
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: massive heart attack. He died again and was resuscitated again
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: and somehow survived that too. I got the message both times.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: Don't take people for granted. Tell the people you love
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: that you love them. Ask the questions. Have the conversations.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: I talked to dad every week. We spoke last Sunday.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: It was an ordinary phone call, but I saw how
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: unwell he was. Told him I loved him and we
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: hung up. A few days later, He passed peacefully in
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: his sleep. I'm grieving, of course, but this time is different.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: Dad had taken care of his affairs, made arrangements for Mom,
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: and spent the last year telling us he didn't want
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: to be brought back next time. We all knew what
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: he meant. His death wasn't a surprise, and we'd had
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: as much time to prepare as anyone can. We all
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: want forever, but we get what we get. And honestly,
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: we got more time with Dad than we ever expected.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: He was the kindest, quietest, gentlest soul I've ever known.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: He worked hard, raised us well, and left the world
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: better than he found it. I can only hope to
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: do the same. Dad donated his body to science, and
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: there won't be a funeral or viewing. That's what he wanted,
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: and it's what Mom and the rest of us want too.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: I'm organizing an informal gathering because I recognize that people
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: need some way to grieve together. The problem is that
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: our extended family is furious. We were raised Mormon. but
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: have since left the church, and our family has plenty
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: of reasons for not wanting a traditional Mormon funeral. Cost
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: is a major factor, but there are also personal and
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: family circumstances that make a church service and viewing inappropriate
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: for us. Our family is divided, and emotions are running high.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: So I have three questions. First, how do I respond
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: to people who keep trying to do things for me?
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: I know they're being kind and I love them, but
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: the last thing I want right now is help. My
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: routines and structure are what keep me sane. I need
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: to focus on ordinary things instead of how much I'm
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: going to miss my father. I also recognize that helping
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: may be part of how these people process their own grief,
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: and I don't want to make a difficult situation harder
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: for them. Second, how do we handle the extended family
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: conflict over the funeral? My dad was their brother too,
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: and I understand that they're grieving, but this is what
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: dad wanted, and our immediate family agrees. How do we
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: diffuse the situation without getting dragged into a fight over
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: how we're supposed to mourn. Finally, what do I say
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: to clients, coworkers, and strangers? I work in video production,
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: often 70 to 80 hours a week, and I need
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: to step away for a few days. When I tell
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: people my dad died and that I need to get
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: back to them later, they often launch into their own
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: stories about loss. I know they're trying to relate, but
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: I don't want to spend my limited emotional energy comforting
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: someone else or bonding with a client. I just want
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: to get off the call and have some space to grieve.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: I've tried being direct, but that usually turns into an
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: awkward exchange of apologies and suddenly I'm spending another 20
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: minutes managing someone else's feelings about my father's death. How
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: do I set boundaries without making things more uncomfortable? How
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: do I get people to understand that I need space,
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: not conversation? I'll take my response off the air. Signed,
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: Maudlin in MTL. All right. But that means we're going
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: to give our response off the air. Cut the tape.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: Cut the tape.
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: Welcome back, everybody. I feel like.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: We really gave a lot of good answers on that.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: Better than we've done in years. Probably the best response
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: we've ever had.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: It's a shame we did not record it.
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: I don't know that the racist stuff wasn't necessary, but
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: fuck the Lithuanians.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: Icing on the cake, though. Icing on the cake. Those
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: Litho's know what they did. So.
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: Stop coming up with slurs. We're going to nip that
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: in the bud right now.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: No, they complain.
• 17:07
  Speaker 5: We're not going to get in the business of coming
• 17:10
  Speaker 5: up with funny racial slurs.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: More like Lithuanians. Am I right? Okay, never mind. I'm
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: back in. Well... Molden? Maudlin. Maudlin. First off... I'm not
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: sure if that's their real name. Maudlin. Maudlin, I think, means, like, grieving. Um...
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: My condolences. I'm sorry. That really sucks.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: Nick, do you want to tell them about your loss?
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: I would like to spend the rest of this time
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: talking about my experience. Which I was going to do, but.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: Now I feel like a dick. Thank you, Whitney. Just
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: punch me in the dick. Just punch me in the dick.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: To talk about their loss back.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, there we go.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: Perfect. Did you listen to the letter?
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: No.
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: So first off, I apologize. And my condolences to... Also,
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: we did condense this, so I do hope that we
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: kept the spirit of it. It was just too long
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: to put the whole thing on air, but I feel
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: like we got close.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: It seems like we did. So, three questions. So, here's
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: the thing.
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: So, first of all, how to respond to people trying
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: to keep... I want to kind of skip that one.
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: I want to start with the family conflict.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: Start there.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: Let's do it.
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: Because this is something that I thought was really interesting. Um, again,
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: my grandmother just died not to bring it back to me,
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: but I'm going to bring it back to me for.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: A little bit. Let's do it. Let's do it.
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: Um, here was the interesting thing about that, that I
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: kind of had this, like, I don't know, like moments
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: of realization, which was just kind of weird. Um, so
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: my grandmother had five children, my mom being one of them. Um,
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: and she has, um, Two surviving siblings.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: Wait, your mom or your grandma?
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: My grandmother.
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: Your grandma.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: Grandmother. So my grandma, she was the oldest. So she
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: had younger siblings that were still alive. Maybe one or two.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: I can't remember. And then my grandpa. So this would
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: be her in-laws. I think she had one surviving in-law. Okay. Okay.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: And I had this weird moment, this epiphany where like,
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: So you had a great grandparent-in-law. Yes. Okay. Basically.
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: And it was weird because I remember at the funeral
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: seeing all of the work that my mom and my
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: aunts and my uncle did for this funeral. Like, they
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: were doing all of the heavy lifting. And they were
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: putting all this together. They were making all the decisions.
• 19:47
  Speaker 4: They were coordinating everything.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: And.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: My grandmother's sister kind of shows up and is there. Right.
• 19:59
  Speaker 4: And so she attends and she does everything and part
• 20:01
  Speaker 4: of the grieving process or whatever, but she's not part
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: of the coordination.
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: And this is the part that kind of hit me
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: really weird is like, I've got one sibling, right? And
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: so if something happened to her and she passed away,
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: I would feel like I need to be involved. But
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: there comes a point where when you have adult children,
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: the adult children become the important people. Like they step
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: up and it's their decision. It's not my decision. Even
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: though I feel like I, you know, I've spent my
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: entire life with my sister.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: Right. They, you know, obviously they're.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: That's her family.
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: She has a family.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: You're a family, but that is her unit.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: And it's just this weird thing that you don't really
• 20:49
  Speaker 4: think about until you're in that moment.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: And then, so to the writer, like.
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: I think you're in the right there. Like, this is
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: your dad. You get to choose that. And though you have,
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: he's got siblings, that's great. And I hope they can participate,
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: but they need to know their place.
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: And I think you can, I think there's a place
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: to kindly and lovingly say to them, like, my father
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: left that religion and left wishes.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: And so we're going to honor those wishes.
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: And we're not going to revert back to that religion
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: now that he is no longer with us. I think
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: there's a nice, loving place for that conversation.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: And if they don't have a place for that conversation... honestly,
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: I think you've done what you can do. Yeah.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: You don't have to engage.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: If they're not going.
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: To be happy about it, at some point you just
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: go like, I'm sorry you're not happy about this, but
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: this is what it is.
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: This is what we've decided. This is what we're going
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: to do. I hope that you can participate. I hope
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: you're there and we would love to have you, but
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: this is what's happening.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: I would encourage you to not argue with them about it. Yeah.
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: It's just this, here is what is happening. You can
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: just describe it to them and give them the reasons
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: if you so choose. But, I mean, there's no reason
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: to argue the merits.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: Right. Because you're not going to change your mind. Right.
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: You're not going to suddenly give, like, a full Mormon
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: honors burial, which is, I assume, what they call it.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: That is absolutely right, yeah. No, I think that's true
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: in a family.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: Call Hala, I think. Zoom tight. You get buried with
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: your wife, even if she's still alive.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: They really don't like women in that.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: It's kind of like the Egyptians. Put in the tomb.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: You can't get married with all of them, though, right?
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: I mean, you gotta leave some wives for Jehovah.
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: Oh my God.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: They get a whole planet, Jacob. You sound ignorant. You
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: just don't... You don't know what you don't know. I
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: feel ridiculous. Jacob, you ignorant slut.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: Just being silly.
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: So I feel like just being able to share with
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: family that tries to interject and say, well, we think
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: this is the best thing or the right thing to do,
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: just pushing back and saying, well... Kind of what Jacob
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: was saying. I hear you. We're not doing that.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: Oh, thank you.
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: Actually, a decision's already been made on that. He left
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: wishes on that. So we're just doing that.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: This is what's happening.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: I do appreciate the tension, though, just to kind of
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: acknowledge it. Of course. Especially in a religion where, and
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure the nuances of this, but I've seen
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: situations where somebody will say... Like, hey, there's gonna be
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: a cremation or something like that. And then the family
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: of origin being like, no, no, no, no, no, that is... No,
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: don't do that. That is the worst thing. We have
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: to insist. And I can appreciate that somebody believes in
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: their religion so strongly that they almost feel they need
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: to protect the eternal soul of somebody they love. And
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: while I don't agree with that interpretation, boy, what a tension, right?
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: To think, golly, you're... You're already going through this. You
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: lost somebody you love. Death is scary. And then your
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: religion also teaches you this. You believe that. You think
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: I'm now deluded and putting my father into this medical
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: science program, which is what he wanted, and I should
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: usurp what he wanted to protect him spiritually. I just
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: get it. Sure.
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: If you truly believe that someone you love is going
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: to go to hell because they get cremated, Yeah, you're
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: going to have strong feelings about that.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: Have you heard the stand-up comic talk about how that's
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: a big bummer when you go to hell for cremation
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: because it happens a little while after you die? So
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: you're already in heaven and you're in the hot tub.
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: Somebody walks up and goes, hey, get out.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: What happened? They burned your body, man. I don't make
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: the rules. You got to go. Get out of the pool.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: You got to go to hell.
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: But I live my life so well, I have no
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: control over this.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sorry, bummer. It's like when you start looking at
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: those rules, they don't make much sense.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: No, they make a lot of sense.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: Dan, what the fuck's his name? Dan something or other.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: I see him on my feed all the time. Oh,
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: he's hilarious. So the conflict with family, I think we
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: all agree. That's so awkward and uncomfortable. That is a
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: really awkward thing.
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: It's so hard to navigate that. I think it just
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: takes ultra diplomacy skills. And ultimately, to some extent, you
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: can just allow people to be unhappy. You don't have
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: to resolve that. You could say, I'm so sorry. I
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: hope you can still attend.
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: I honestly think that's the biggest answer is understanding that
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: they're not going to be happy.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: Your father has died. Their relative has died. They're not
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: going to be happy.
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: They're trying to hold on to some piece of control
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: over something that they can do now because.
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: Somebody's dead. And I've seen a lot of yucky funeral
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: situations where all of a sudden family members are fighting.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: It's the worst thing on the planet. And it comes
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: out of nowhere. Like there's this animosity of like, you know,
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: somebody will say something at the funeral and they'll say
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: something indelicate. And like the children are like, how dare
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: you talk about dad that way? Or how dare you
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: characterize my relationship with my dad as distant? You don't
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: understand us. And like, Ooh, you know, like this is, yeah,
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of ways this can go wrong.
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: I would, I would sure recommend anytime it starts getting
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: into that, like Tension, argument, territory, just take a step back,
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: hands up, step back. Like, hey, that's not what I'm
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: after here.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: People are trying to comfort the writer. So, yeah, how
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: do I respond to people who keep trying to do
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: things for me? Here's the thing. Oh, give people jobs. Yeah.
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: If they want to do something and they're offering to
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: do something... There are things that can be done. Maybe
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: not right now.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: Paint my fence.
• 26:21
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: It's what dad would have wanted. That's it. I don't know.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: You got 20 bucks on you? Yeah. Can I give
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: you money right now?
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: No, this is fine.
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: No, people want to do things. And you're absolutely right, Ryder.
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: That is part of their grieving.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's part of their grieving. I think sometimes it's
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: also part of their discomfort. Sure.
• 26:40
  Speaker 4: Like when you're in a situation where you feel... helpless.
• 26:45
  Speaker 4: You're like, I feel terrible and I don't like the
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: way I feel. It's actually kind of a selfish thing.
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: We don't like to think of it that way, but
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: kind of is where it's just like, I'm so uncomfortable
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: right now that you got to give me something that
• 26:56
  Speaker 4: I can do so I can feel like I'm contributing.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: This is something that I get stuck in because for me,
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: I'm kind of like the writer. If I am grieving
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: or I'm going through something, I don't want to be attacked.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: I don't want anybody to come try to help me.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: And again, I feel like a lot of times, It's
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: not selfish on the other people's part to want to help. No,
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's that. It's not selfish. It's the
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: wrong word. But it is about their grief and their mourning,
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: and there's this need to come fix you. And I
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: don't know if all three of you.
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: I don't think it's just that, though. I think there's
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: genuineness as well. I don't mean to say it's not genuine.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. No, I think it's both. It's fundamentally an
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: action about me restoring my peace because I feel scared
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: for you or sad for you. So it's an expression
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: that brings me to homeostasis, right? It's my misalignment that
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: needs to be corrected.
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: It's kind of like what we always used to do
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: in group therapy, like where we would have, like, whenever
• 27:51
  Speaker 4: someone started to cry, everybody's like, let's find the Kleenex box.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, take care of that. And we got to do that.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: But it wasn't because... they felt they needed to help.
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: It was because they felt so uncomfortable watching their peer.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: Go through emotions. I need to solve this. Yeah.
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: They're just like, yeah. And so it was their own
• 28:09
  Speaker 4: kind of discomfort that like drove them to action.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: And so I think that that happens in grieving and mourning,
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: which is normal. But like for me, whenever I see
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: people doing that, my intention or my kind of reaction
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: is like, hey, maybe don't. Like maybe like, I think
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: we've talked about on the show before, but like there's
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: a Jewish tradition called Shiva or Shiva. Yeah, that's it.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: And they just sit quietly and allow people to mourn.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: They don't try to repair them. They don't try to
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: fix them. They don't try to do anything for them.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: They accept that this is unsolvable and that we're all
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: just going to sit in the presence. They imagine almost
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: grief like a smoke that they're all just breathing in together.
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: For me, whenever I'm grieving or mourning, I think that's
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: kind of where I'm at. Like I don't want anybody
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: trying to make me feel better because kind of it
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: puts a burden on me. Because when they come to
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: me and they're like, hey, I brought you this casserole,
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: or hey, I just want to take care of you.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: We're doing this nice thing for your family just to
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: get you through this hard time. Now I have to
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: set my grieving aside, put on my diplomacy skills, and say,
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: thank you so much. That is so kind of you.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: And now I'm being a therapist at them, right? Now
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: I'm putting them back together because I know that that's
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: their expression of grief. And it pauses my true grief,
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: where maybe I just don't want to be fucking talked to, right?
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: But I think you're just describing society, right? Yeah, no,
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: I think, again, I'm not indicting anybody. I'm saying that
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: this is what people do. And it's unfortunate because I
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: think for me, when I'm in the grieving chair, I
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: don't want that. And so sometimes I misread other people's
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: grieving because I treat them the way I want to
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: be treated, right? And so that's my only compass. And
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: so like when I see another person grieving, I kind
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: of just give them fuck. space and like, I don't
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: really approach. And there's been times in my life where
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: people are like, yeah, you were really indifferent, you know,
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: during that time, like you, you were nowhere to be found.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: And it's like, I, you know, I'm sorry. Like sometimes
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: I don't know what the right move is. I suppose
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: you can ask people, but I feel like even pinging
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: them to bother them and say, what do you need
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: right now? Cause everybody does that. Everybody pings you and goes, Hey,
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: I'm so sorry to hear about what you're going through.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: Anything you need, anything your family needs, we're here for you.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: How can we help? And like, I just feel annoyed.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: But that's, that's also, I, yes, yes to all of that.
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: That's also a lot of the other types of things
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: that we've talked about over the years. Yeah. you know,
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: things like, it's nice to have a point person. You know,
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: when you're just practically when, when someone passes away, that's
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: the thing is like, Hey cousin, you know, you're in charge.
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: We're going to tell everybody to call you for any information.
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: You're in charge of disseminating information.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: That's it.
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: They're one removed from dad. And so like when somebody asks, Hey, here,
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: you know, is there something I can do? Like maybe
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: you don't need to be the person asking that or
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: answering that. Maybe you can send them to somebody else,
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: but like it's, that's, I understand that it's not always
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: what you want to happen when you're, when you're grieving,
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: we've all been in that position, but it is kind
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: of society and like society is coming together. And part
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: of that coming together is everybody is going to interact
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: for a few hours.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah. They're going to make the effort.
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: It is interesting to see how people respond to your grief,
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: you know, because like when my grandmother died, I don't
• 31:11
  Speaker 4: know if I've mentioned this at all, but My grandmother
• 31:14
  Speaker 4: died recently.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry.
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: Anything you need, we're here for you.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: Can I get you a beer? Do you need anything?
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: You can, actually. Do you need me to de-thatch your
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: lawn or another part of your life? That's done, but
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: I'm good for the beer. Okay, okay, yeah, that's fine.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: Beer's good. Yeah, okay, got it. Do you want me
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: to just mail you that, or... I'm kind of thirsty now.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: We can cut. I'll just go get it. I mean,
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: I don't want to hassle you.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: No, no, no.
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: It's not a hassle. IPA.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: I will cry the rest of this episode if.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: You don't get it. Grandma. And frosted glass if you
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: got time. Oh, yeah. Well, of course. Just throw it
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: in the freezer for a little bit. Grammy Tanderman.
• 31:54
  Speaker 4: But yeah, like it was, it was interesting to see,
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: you know, cause everybody kind of responded differently. My, my
• 32:04
  Speaker 4: skip boss did kind of something that I thought was
• 32:08
  Speaker 4: just really interesting. And it, it actually meant a lot
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: to me that he did this, but he, I kind
• 32:15
  Speaker 4: of knew this about him already, but he said, uh,
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: he sent me a text and he's like, I'm.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: Sorry to hear about your grandmother. Tell me something interesting
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: about her.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: That's sweet.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And I was like, oh. And so I did.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: And it forced me to think of a story to tell.
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: A positive thing. Yeah. And then it was really kind
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: of nice to do. So I've never had anybody do
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: that before.
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: She could fully sit on a road cone. She could
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: sit down on the top of her rope cone and lift.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: Her feet off the ground. And she could spin her
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: way down onto it.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: It was magical. It wasn't Christmas until it happened. It
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: wasn't Christmas at the Tangeman house. How does he know that?
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: Grandma straddles a road coat.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: Jacob knows a lot.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: It's like the.
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: Dropping of the ball on New Year's. It's very similar
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: to the dropping of the ball on New Year's.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: Ten, nine. You guys are great. We count up, though.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: It's about the circumference of the road coat. It's counting
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: up the circumference of the road coat. Five inches.
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: Six inches ten inches dilated jesus christ here's to you granny.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: My yeah thank you my thing for for other people
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: keep trying to do things for me um i mean
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: you mentioned that your dad has almost died or died
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: and come back to life multiple times i wonder if
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: there's room to kind of share that i feel like
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: if i knew somebody who is in that situation sure
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: it would Kind of makes sense that they're like, well,
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: we've had some scares recently, you know, over the last
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: year or two years, however long it's been. And I'm
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: glad we were able to... I was able to get
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: a lot of closure.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there you go.
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: Just something simple. You don't even have to go into detail.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: I was able to get a lot of closure before.
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: You react differently to someone if they say, oh, my...
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: Say a parent dies. My parent died suddenly versus my
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: parent was 95 years old and has been in poor
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: health for several years. This has been coming for a while.
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: Thank you for your condolences.
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: There may even be some relief in some of those situations.
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sure.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: I think people come at it very sad.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: That is true. People are intelligent about that. Right.
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: But I think if, yeah, someone told me that, I'd
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: be like, oh, okay. I may not have to check
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: in on you as much. You just want to keep
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: going about your day and doing your thing. So I
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: don't know, Ryder, if you want to tell people that
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: maybe that you're talking about people asking you who don't
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: know that and that feels harder, but I would try.
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: That if And back to the help thing, too, it's
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: absolutely okay also to just say, like, oh, no, we
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: don't need anything right now.
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I just don't need anything.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: You know, I do have a note. We've got, you know,
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: 20 casseroles in the freezer. A lot of casseroles. So
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: many casseroles.
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: But things like, you know, paper plates, you know, things
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: for the service or the gathering, whatever you're doing, like.
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: That's what they're asking about.
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: They're like, bring a couple of two-liter Cokes to the
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: service is a fine answer to that.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: A gentleman's eight ball, you know, whatever we need. Survey
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: of the room really quick, because this third question says,
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: I talk to my clients, I talk to coworkers about this,
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: I work a lot, and when I tell them that
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: my grandfather, or when I tell them that my father
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: has died, they try to comfort me. And then I
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: have to engage with this process in which they will
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: share their stories of somebody dying. And now I have
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: to engage with that. I can't imagine having that conversation.
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: I can't imagine initiating that conversation. With a stranger that
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: I'm on, like, a sales call with. This was going
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: to be my point, is that I think that the
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: solution to this is, because, yeah, you're nowhere gone. Because, like,
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: the writer's saying, like, how do I redirect them? How
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: do I cut them off without, you know, seeming rude?
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: Or how do I not have to attend to them
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: now unpacking their grief? And Ryder, I think it goes
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: all the way back to maybe don't even tell him.
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: If you initiate that topic with me, there's only one response.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: You just saw it when Nick's like, hey, my grandmother.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: We all still have to stop what the fuck we're doing.
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: Offer him a beer. Oh, how are you, man? Reminisce
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: about her sitting on road cones.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: That was fun, though.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: How are we coming on that beer, by the way? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: I was going to wait for the trivia break. Oh,
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: my God. I didn't hear what he said. I'm going
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: to have to listen to the episode.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: I'm coming on the beer. Just end it. So, Ryder,
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: if you felt at all that we were.
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: Being rough with you.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: Just understand that you're getting out good with this one. Yeah.
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: Don't do it. It's like The Office. You're doing fine.
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: He's trying to set you up. No, but okay.
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: But to this point, if you bring this up, if
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: you tell other people, my father died recently, in whatever context,
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: even if you're saying, hey, look, I'm sorry if I'm
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: slow on some of our projects.
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: My father died recently. Yeah. There is no universe, right,
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: where the person you're talking to does not feel compelled
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: by decency to pause, to relate to you, to attend
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: to you, to try to say, oh man, I too
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: have suffered a loss. It just, it is what it is.
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: I've got some personal matters to attend to. Yeah. It's
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: a fine sentence. I don't think you have to give
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: more details than that. Like for me, because I dislike
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: the attention during grieving, I often won't tell anybody that
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: I don't think needs to know.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: That mom's been gone for a while now. We don't
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: even know.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: You just stop responding to text messages and phone calls
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: and emails. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what Jim does. He
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: just goes dark. And then we just have no idea.
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: What happened to Jim? No fucking idea. We haven't heard
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: from his mom in a while, have we?
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: No, I know we haven't.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: I know. Peace be with her. Oh, God. Yeah. She
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: was cremated. Full Mormon honors. She was cremated live. That's
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: what she wanted.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: Tis the season.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: Tis the season. She gets her own planet. So yeah, Ryder,
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: on that third point. I'm just kidding. The women don't
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: get their own planets. That's not how that works. Yeah,
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: but on the third point, to me, the most efficient
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: way to stop the customers, the clients, the coworkers from
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: bringing this up and for you getting stuck in that
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: at all is I would just decline to even offer
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: the information. I know that in some cultures it almost
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: feels rude that you're not telling people about that kind
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: of stuff.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: Well, and the writer said they're neurodivergent and they like
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: to be very straightforward. I think that's something that to you, writer,
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: feels very natural and understandable. But I think if you
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: don't want that response from more neurotypical people you're interacting with,
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: then you need to switch that up and just not share.
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: Maybe for you that feels like the comfortable, better option
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: to say, oh, this is just what's happening. But if
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: you're that direct, it's going to maybe backfire a little.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: You can even do that with coworkers, really. The only
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: person who really needs to know is your direct supervisor. Yeah.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: And then for everybody else, it's like, I've got family
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: matters that I need to attend to.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: I was just talking about this with a friend whose
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: dog passed away, which she was very close with. Thank you.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: Okay. Fucking time out.
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: Hold on.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: Hold on. Can I get you a beer? Do you
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: need a beer? Can I get you a drink or anything?
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: My condolences to the dog. To the friend's dog. Whitney's
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: mourning you. Fucking monster. She knows somebody whose dog died.
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: But no safety cone conversations about the dog.
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: No, that's a dog.
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: It's a member of the family. Just tasteless.
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: An innocent little dog.
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: Were you raised in a barn? Go on. Whitney, I'm
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: sorry for what you just had to go through. Jesus.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: I just apologize on behalf of my family.
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: Granny Tangeman didn't raise you to be judgmental like that.
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: No. Granny Tangeman didn't judge anybody.
• 39:57
  Speaker 5: No.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: Also, she could use the road cone like an amplification device.
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: She could lie down on her back with her legs
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: up in the air, and it would, like, amplify the queef.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: It was like a war horn.
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: Dinner's ready. Okay, I'm using my veto. I'm using my veto.
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: Veto registered and sustained. Whitney, please continue.
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: But we were talking about this. I was like, well,
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: when you're at work, because she literally needed some days off. One,
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: it was a little unexpected. Two, she's not married, doesn't
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: have kids. This was her baby.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: And so.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: And she basically, I asked her, I was like, well,
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: did you tell people at work? We were just talking
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: about this. And she was like, no, I would not
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: want other coworkers to know that's what I'm going through.
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: Because I think she said the same thing then. They're
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: going to ask me about it. And then I'll just
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: cry at work because I'm thinking about it again.
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: It's perfectly fine to not want to have the conversation.
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: But you don't need to have it. So this is
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: a tough one, Ryder. But I think from all angles here,
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: I think, yeah, having a sense of privacy that I
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: think avoids all this in the first place, which as
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: Whitney pointed out, maybe as a neurodivergent person, you're thinking, well, no,
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: it's just a fact. I'm just going to reveal this.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: But just revealing that fact implies that the next move
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: on the chessboard is for them to try to console you.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: So if you dislike that, then I think you can
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: cut that off by just not even offering it. I
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: agree with Jacob's point that the funeral stuff and the
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: complexity of the family drama is probably just unavoidable. And
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: so the best you can do is, I think, using
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: some of those phrases that Jacob kind of offered that
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: you can tell people like, hey, I agree with you.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: I get that you have different sensibilities about that. This
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: is what our father wanted. This is what he requested.
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: And so we want to honor that. Most people defer
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: to that. Like, yeah, I mean, you got to give
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: the dead what they wanted. So I think that you've
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: got a good recipe there, but I really like this
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: point of like, yeah, sometimes you do have that closure.
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: You've grieved in advance. You've seen it coming. And I
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: think letting people know that. But I like the point
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: that you made in here, Ryder, which I think I
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: really listened hard whenever you talked about having the close
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: call and then feeling that sense of like, my God,
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: have the conversations. Say the goodbyes. Tell people what you
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: feel about them. That's really beautiful. It is really beautiful. Yeah.
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: Definitely feel inspired by that. Turning the list of regrets
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: into the to-do list. Yes. That's nice. So I think
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: you use this situation to, I think, the benefit of
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: your father and to yourself. I'm sorry for your loss.
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: There's just no beautiful way to go through this. I
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: think that humans, in the face of grief, we all
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: handle it poorly. We step on toes. We step on feelings.
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: Thank you for being graceful with other people who didn't
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: have that same multiple warning shots that you had to
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: get their affairs in order. And so for them, they're
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: just thrown into this now, and they're trying to be
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: there for you. But I'm glad that you're able to
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: finally grieve with your family and let go. I'm sure
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: that there's a relief to that, too.
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: All you can do sometimes is just put some road
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: cones up around your feelings.
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break, and when we
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: come back, we're talking about not taking banter personally, Nick.
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: You're listening to Pod Therapy.
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: Jacob does not know the script, and that makes it better.
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: Today's episode is brought to you by Judy Schneider, Leon Kassab,
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: Carolyn Albert, Sammy Scoop, Sarah Smith, Mike Helm, Darren Cunningham,
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: Brady Malachek, Max the Ginger Scoop, Ellie O'Dare, Amy Aardvark,
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: and Edgar Allen Ho. Would you like to sponsor the show?
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: Become a TheraProducer at patreon.com slash therapy. All right, trivia
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: this week. You said you were excited about it. Topic
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: and much overdue.
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: Oh.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: Michael J. Fox. Oh, finally. Finally. Yes. This is what
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: the people have been wanting. This is all Michael J.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: Fox trivia. Enough with the mail and all the letters
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: requesting it. We're finally just going to do it. Question one.
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: What did the Michael J. Fox say? Ding, ding, ding, ding.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: That's it. That's right. Correct answer.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: Two points.
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: I taught my two-year-old nephew that. We were doing animal sounds.
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: I was like, what does a cow say? He's like, moo.
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: So I taught him that I was babysitting him. I
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: taught him that foxes say ding, ding, ding, ding. And
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: I just reinforced that the entire babysitting experience and then
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: never mentioned to the parents what I'd done. And then
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: just like left the toys out for them to just
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: casually discover this. And then one day I get a
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: text and they're like, hey, did you fucking teach our
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: kid the fox says ding, ding, ding? Like, whoa, I
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: don't know who. He said, yeah, Unca did it. Unca
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: taught me this. Like, okay, then it was definitely me.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: I don't get it. There's a song called What Does
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: the Fox Say?
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: Wow, now who doesn't get songs?
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow, it says ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: Oh, look up the video, yeah.
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: It was a cultural thing. Yeah, it was a thing.
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: A whole viral thing, yeah.
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: All right, Jim. What is Michael J. Fox's middle name?
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: Oh, boy.
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: Hmm. Oh, I'll take the options. I don't think it's
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: going to help. None of them start with J. I know.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: For real. Johan. Wait a minute. James. John. Andrew. Adam.
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: Thank God.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: There it is.
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: Unless Jay's a stage name. Oh, fuck me.
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean, with the Screen Actors Guild, at least
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: back then, I think they've changed it now. But back then,
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: if somebody already had the name, you weren't allowed to
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: have the same name.
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you had to just stick a letter in there.
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: There's a Michael A.
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: Fox. That's it.
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: There might have already been a Michael Fox. So he
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: could have just put an initial in there for his
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: SAG card.
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: Oh, boy. This is going to be tough. I'll go
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: with the obvious one because I'll hate myself if it's
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: true and I didn't pick it.
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: James.
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: James. No. Okay. Whitney, for The Steel. John.
• 45:46
  Speaker 5: No.
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: Oh, son of a bitch. It's one of the non-Js.
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: There you go. What were the two non-Js? Andrew or Adam. Oh, man.
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: Michael Andrew Fox. Michael Adam Fox.
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: I feel like Andrew wasn't that popular yet.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: When was he born?
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: 60s.
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: I think 70s, right?
• 46:06
  Speaker 5: 70s?
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: I don't think he's that much older than me. He
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: was a teen in the 80s for Back to the Future.
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: That's true, yeah. I mean, he's probably older than a teen.
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: He doesn't look like a teen. He looks like he's
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: young 20s. Well, I'll go Andrew. It is Andrew. All right. Wow.
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: There was a Michael Fox in SAG. All right. And
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: he didn't want to go with Michael A. Fox because
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: he felt that that was... like two alpha, two whatever.
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: So he went with Michael J. Fox because one of
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: his favorite actors was a Michael J. something or other. Okay.
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: So he ended up going with Michael J. Fox. And
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: that guy has gone on to great success. Whitney, what
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: was Michael J. Fox's first feature film role?
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, I guess options.
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: Midnight Madness, Class of 1984. Poison Ivy or High School USA?
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: I don't know any of those, so B.
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: Big movies. B? No.
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: Damn it.
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's A. Yes. Midnight Madness. Yeah, yeah, definitely Midnight Madness. Wow.
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: For sure. High School USA was a great movie. If
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: you have not seen that, that was a great movie.
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: That's the one where he is a teenage werewolf. Ah,
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: in Paris. Yes. Yeah. He's a teenage werewolf in every
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: movie he's in.
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: Secretly. He's just not always a werewolf. He's not always
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: a werewolf. But it's there. It's not a full moon.
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: You'll notice that it's never shot around a full moon.
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: A lot of the scenes make way more sense. Never
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: a full moon in Back to the Future.
• 47:47
  Speaker 3: It's much more fun to go through actors' filmography and
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: imagine that it's all in the same universe.
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: It makes it a lot better.
• 47:56
  Speaker 4: Jacob, what was the original title of Back to the
• 47:58
  Speaker 4: Future in the early versions of the screenplay?
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: Take options. I feel like I've seen this somewhere before. Yeah, options.
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: Yesterday's Tomorrow. Okay. The Time Machine. Spaceman from Pluto. Or
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: Back Through Time. Okay. I don't think it'd be The
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: Time Machine because the... Too often. Oh, on the nose.
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: When the novel was already... That was already there. So
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: I think The Time Machine is out. What was the
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: last one? Back Through Time.
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: Let's go with that one. Let's go Back Through Time.
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: Because I think they... That seems like something they would
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: have given to Huey Lewis.
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah. When he was writing it. And then he put
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: that in. Back through time. Back in time. What's that smell?
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: He could just change it. Yeah. Your logic is sound,
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: but no. No. All right. It comes around to me.
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: My options are Time Machine... Yesterday's Tomorrow. Probably that one.
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: Or Spaceman from Pluto. Give me Yesterday's Tomorrow.
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: If it's Pluto, I'd die.
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: I like Spaceman from Pluto, honestly. No.
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: Wait, what did you guess?
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: Fucking what? It's not Yesterday's Tomorrow. So you're down to
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: Time Machine or Spaceman from Pluto. I bet it's Spaceman
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: from Pluto. I don't care.
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: It should be Time Machine.
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: Five points for Nick. Spaceman from Pluto. Spaceman from Pluto.
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: I don't care. It should have never been that.
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: Because that's the thing that he's watching on the TV show.
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: his dad's book. His dad writes the book.
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: Michael J.
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: Fox had haunted him in the past and he ends
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: up inspired to write the book.
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: I think I've seen this movie like one time.
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: Maybe that's what it is.
• 49:30
  Speaker 4: But also I was wondering too if it wasn't when
• 49:33
  Speaker 4: he crashes into the barn when he first goes back,
• 49:36
  Speaker 4: the kid's got the comic book and it says... spaceman
• 49:39
  Speaker 4: from i think it was so it's either the book
• 49:42
  Speaker 4: or it's the comic book maybe they were getting a
• 49:44
  Speaker 4: little too meta with their time they might allude to
• 49:46
  Speaker 4: it in there somewhere wow good.
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: For them jeez that was a good one.
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: Nick in the lead yeah five to two to zeros
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: we all had a question right we already answered oh
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: yeah i got two of them right and nick got
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: the other one okay by default yeah not taking banter
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: personally Hey, guys.
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: I struggle with insecurities like many do, and I have
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: friends similar to Jacob who love to poke fun and
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: banter with me.
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: No, he would never.
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: Most times I'm down for it, and I engage and
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: play along, and it's a fun time. But there's a
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: part of me that takes their jabs more personal than
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: I know they mean them to be, which builds up
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: over time, and I usually just don't hang out with people.
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: I always mean them. For fear of bringing the mood
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: down until I feel better. What's a tactic that can
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: be used to try not to take something like that personally?
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: I don't want to ruin the fun just because my
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: brain is being dumb, especially when everyone else's doesn't have
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: a problem with it. I feel like if I could
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: do something to help curb the hurt feelings, I'd also
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: gain something to use against those insecurities and become more
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: confident overall. Thank you for any advice that you have.
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: Securely insecure pronouns are he and him. So, Jacob, as
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: a bully. I don't understand what the question is. How
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: can I deal with my feelings about that?
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: Like, not be as upset by certain jobs.
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so when my friend picks on me. Try being
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: less upset about it. Yeah.
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: Oh, never thought about it that way.
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: I feel, over the years, because you do have this
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: playful style. Okay. I'm sure you've encountered people that, in
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: one way or another, passively, and you've picked up on it,
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: or they've even been direct, they've signaled, like, hey, I
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: don't do well with that. Sure. I'm sure over the
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: years you've got a little file of people in your
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: life that you're like, meh, I don't tease them. That's
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: not their jam. They don't handle it well.
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: Or like, what do you do when you notice that?
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: Do you change your behavior?
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: Has anybody ever said that?
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: Has anybody ever given you the feedback? Or do you
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: just write them off? Like, what is your... I'm just
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: curious now.
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: I bully them 2x until they fucking grow up. I
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, like, Nick doesn't want me to
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: pick on his grandmother right now. Yeah. It's a sensitive time.
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: And that's fine. I don't mind that Nick doesn't want
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: me to pick on his grandmother right now. Okay.
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: I also am not worried about, like, I don't think
• 52:07
  Speaker 3: that Nick believes that I.
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: Think that his grandmother actually straddled road cones. Hmm.
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: Like, you're still right.
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: So, like, I'm not worried about that part of it.
• 52:16
  Speaker 3: Like, I'm not worried about having, like, actually said something
• 52:20
  Speaker 3: that may have, like, actually offended him. So, like, it's
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: an outrageous thing.
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: It matters to me.
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that's what I'm asking. Like, that's a good question.
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: You know, if you're doing jabs at somebody that's like, oh, yeah,
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: look at that shirt, Farmer Benjamin or something like that.
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: And his hair's stupid, too, huh?
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: And I don't like those shoes. Those are bad shoes.
• 52:40
  Speaker 3: And also, this is a different environment. Like, part of
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: my job here is to say stupid things.
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. You go further.
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: I don't know that I'm trying to make it about Nick.
• 52:49
  Speaker 3: I'm really asking this question. No, but I'm thinking through it.
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: Because your style is. I'm thinking through it out loud.
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: That's all I can do right now. But you don't
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: mean it to be mean. It's this playful banter, which
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: is exactly what the writer talks about. Oh, I can
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: mean it to be mean, though. And when it's that,
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: it's great. We're assuming a world in which these are
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: your friends and you're playful with them. I'm just curious
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: because I know that I've seen situations over the years
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: where I do this too, where I'll pick on people
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: and it's playful, and I've picked up through whatever interaction
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: that that's not for them, that this doesn't go well
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: for them if they take it personally.
• 53:17
  Speaker 3: I guess the reason I'm mentioning Nick right now is
• 53:20
  Speaker 3: Nick doesn't want me to pick on his grandmother right now.
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: Okay. Fine and fair. And I'm saying it genuinely. I
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: know you are.
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: I'm not wrapping back around to something. But I also
• 53:29
  Speaker 3: don't think that Nick... does not, like, I don't think
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: Nick is trying to draw a line in the sand
• 53:37
  Speaker 3: that says, never pick on me about anything again.
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, he just vetoed the topic. And also, like,
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: that's a veto for now.
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Like, anything that, anything that, but it's anything, anything.
• 53:49
  Speaker 3: That, like, if somebody's upset about something, they're not going
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: to be upset about it forever.
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: And there's going to be other ways to talk about it,
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: and there's whatever.
• 53:55
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's just, I guess, I guess the reason
• 53:57
  Speaker 3: I'm having a hard time answering your question is I
• 53:59
  Speaker 3: don't think I do anything. Right.
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: Okay. I think that I just.
• 54:03
  Speaker 3: I was trying to, what I was trying to get
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: to is I was wondering if one advice we might
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: give to the writer would be, hey, it's okay that
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: you feel uncomfortable in those situations.
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: That I think is certainly my advice. Yeah.
• 54:15
  Speaker 3: And I was going to try to create a bridge
• 54:16
  Speaker 3: of like, oh, you know, the writer specifically name drops
• 54:19
  Speaker 3: Jacob as somebody who teases. I was going to try
• 54:21
  Speaker 3: to create a bridge of where maybe you would have
• 54:23
  Speaker 3: a story of like, sure, writer, here's a way to
• 54:25
  Speaker 3: talk to a Jacob in your life. If we ever
• 54:27
  Speaker 3: accidentally step on your emotional toes, here's what I've had
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: friends tell me this. I've had friends signal to me like, Hey,
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: you know, I'm kind of sensitive.
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: Like, well, I mean, Nick just did it. Yeah. Okay.
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: So just like, like he just did it.
• 54:37
  Speaker 3: He just, he just said like, like he was just
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: direct and said like, I don't want to joke about
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: this anymore.
• 54:40
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: And then it's fine. And that's fine.
• 54:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: I'm not upset about it. Nick's not upset about it.
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: I'm upset about it. Jim's a little upset about it.
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: I'm emotional. I feel like nobody cares what Jim's going
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: through over here. That's true. Friends are fighting. I'm uncomfortable.
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: I don't know what to do.
• 54:54
  Speaker 3: But I think the answer, honestly, is it's just fine
• 54:57
  Speaker 3: for you to be upset about it.
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 54:59
  Speaker 3: And you understand intellectually what it is, which you've already
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: got that going for you.
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And if you communicate to your friends that like-
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: I need direct feedback.
• 55:09
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: Like, hey, I'm a.
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: Little prickly about that right now.
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
• 55:13
  Speaker 3: And then like, if they don't like it, then you
• 55:16
  Speaker 3: can walk away and you'll see them later.
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: I've had friends, I'm thinking of a friend that I've
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: had for years. I'm in a fantasy football league with him.
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: It's nothing, nobody in this room. But like, because you're
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: not even in a fantasy football league with us because
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: you refuse to join. Which honestly, I kind of fucking get.
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: Because Whitney and Emma are playing each other and they're
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: both just not playing players that play football. Like it's
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: just nobody in this lineup.
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: My team did pretty good.
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: And Chris Lambert, I am looking at you because your
• 55:41
  Speaker 3: entire fucking starters are injured or out or on bye week.
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: It is ridiculous. So I have to do this every
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: single week. I have to log in there and like
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: change my lineup and shit. This is a lot. I'm
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: not talking to you.
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: This is a lot. I'm just furious.
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: Am I getting paid overtime?
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: You see, this is the thing. They said, would you
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: like to play a game? One of us said yes. Yes.
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: And that person is the one who's realizing right now
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: that they have to play the game every week.
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: I never said yes.
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: That's true. We actually just signed her up.
• 56:07
  Speaker 3: See.
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: But I have a friend that I've- I said, I
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: don't want to play that game every week. I have
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: a friend I've known for years, and his style is just,
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: he doesn't mean to be mean. He's actually one of
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: the sweeter friends I've got. He's always there to find
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: out if you want to spend time together, hang out.
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: He's just one of those people- But for whatever reason,
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: his comedy style, when we're all hanging out, it starts
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: with like low stakes banter, but he'll always kind of
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: like take it a little too far. And he'll say
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: something a little too much or like make a personal
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: joke that's like, whoa, buddy, like not everybody in this
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: room knows about that. Or like. he'll say like, he'll,
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: it also like take the cheap shots that are not intellectual.
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: Like you'll tease somebody about their weight. Right. And it's like, dude,
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: what are you doing? I try to keep all of
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: my very intellectual. Yeah.
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 56:54
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 56:55
  Speaker 3: It's a little too personal, you know, where he'll do that.
• 56:58
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: And like, I, it almost could be true.
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: And it's always tricky. Right.
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: Because if you snap back on him and some people
• 57:04
  Speaker 3: in our friend group have snapped back on him and
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: been like, yo F you or whatever.
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: And then he's like, Oh, whoa, whoa. I'm just joking.
• 57:09
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: He always has that deferment to be like, Oh, I
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: just tease. And it's like, bro, no, that's a bullshit response. Yeah.
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: Like if you, and then it'll come to you like, Oh,
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry about that. And it's like, I just, I
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: get where the writer's coming from because I've got people
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: in my life that are like too much, you know?
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: And they don't mean to be bad, but like, they'll
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: step on your insecurities. They'll make a comment about like,
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: like you're, you're, he's the kind of guy that if
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: you went to a social engagement and let's say you
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: bought a new outfit and you're clearly wearing a new outfit,
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: like it's clearly something that you were trying to get
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: ready for this event. He's the guy that will say
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: something about it. like whoa exactly oh you decided to
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: actually try huh you think you that doesn't it's not
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: your size whatever and it's like that but he thinks
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: it's funny.
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: It's like i got it on instagram okay yeah yeah i.
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: Got this box what was it the stretchy shoe so
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: like yeah just i i get where the writer's coming
• 57:57
  Speaker 3: from because i definitely have a friend like that and
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: i've i i i kind of auditioned this answer already
• 58:03
  Speaker 3: with you know kind of where i was going with
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: jacob but like I found that I can tell him, like, one,
• 58:07
  Speaker 3: I don't poke back anymore. Like, I don't do the
• 58:10
  Speaker 3: playful thing because I don't want to feed it. I
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: want it to be like, nope, I don't do it. Like,
• 58:14
  Speaker 3: so whenever you do it, you just look like an asshole.
• 58:16
  Speaker 3: And so you'll come at me and be like, your
• 58:18
  Speaker 3: stupid shoes or whatever dumbass thing. And I'll just be like, okay.
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: And like.
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: Just like, yeah.
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Like, I remember he had made a joke whenever
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: I was much heavier. He had made a joke about
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: me being like really heavy. And it was like at
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: a Christmas thing. Like we were invited to his house
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: for like a Christmas thing. And we were like, he
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: made us like cutlets of steak. And he was like
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: giving everybody like little steak as like an appetizer thing,
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: like these little free taste things. It's like, oh, have
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: a bite. It's really good steak. And like, he's giving
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: us all wine and stuff. We're all hanging out.
• 58:44
  Speaker 3: And he said something like, oh my God, the steak
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: is so good, but I better stop eating or I'm
• 58:47
  Speaker 3: gonna look like Jimmy.
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: And I was like, Jesus Christ. That's rough. What are
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: we doing here? Okay.
• 58:52
  Speaker 3: But you gave me the food.
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: Jesus. Yeah. And like everybody around was like, ha, ha, ha. Right. Okay.
• 59:00
  Speaker 3: You know, like just that kind of shit. And it's like, yeah,
• 59:03
  Speaker 3: that made me feel insecure. I was really unhappy about that.
• 59:06
  Speaker 3: And then like years later, whenever I lost all the weight,
• 59:09
  Speaker 3: then I'm at like a draft.
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: Or something like that. And I'm like, you know, looking
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: trimmer than him. And like, he still made a fucking comment.
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: And he's like, oh, yeah, you lost a bunch of weight, huh, fatty?
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, wow, I just can't.
• 59:20
  Speaker 3: Fucking win with this guy like why why are we
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: always to do this i don't know.
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: Nick's like let's just clock in for a minute but.
• 59:27
  Speaker 3: Like it's tough because he's a good guy he's got
• 59:29
  Speaker 3: a great spirit he's got a great soul he's he's
• 59:32
  Speaker 3: one of those like ride or dies with you like
• 59:34
  Speaker 3: he will be there at your funeral like he's just
• 59:36
  Speaker 3: that deep but like calling you fat he's really fit
• 59:40
  Speaker 3: the fucking casket huh jim it'll be there as the
• 59:43
  Speaker 3: extra pallbearer at your funeral And I think it's like
• 59:46
  Speaker 3: he feels awkward or something. And so he's just going
• 59:48
  Speaker 3: for the quick shot. It's just bad comedy. And everybody
• 59:52
  Speaker 3: has a friend like that. They're just not great at comedy.
• 59:55
  Speaker 3: And so they just try to take the little shot
• 59:57
  Speaker 3: and you're like, fuck, this kind of sucks. Anyway, I
• 59:59
  Speaker 3: relate to the writer and I think that this is
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 3: not an uncommon problem.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: Something that stuck out to me to kind of piggyback
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: off what y'all are getting at was just the writer saying,
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: I don't want to be around people who are making
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: jobs at me because I'm sensitive to it. And I
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: don't want to bring the mood down.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: So I wait till I feel better to spend time
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: with these people again. And, um, to me that just,
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: if I were sitting in session with you, I would
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: really dig into like feeling responsible for other people's feelings.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: Like I'm just going to pull back now because I'm
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: going to pout about it or something if they start
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: jabbing at me or I'll be hurt or upset. So
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: I just won't go around. It's one thing if you're like,
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: I don't want to go around because I'm hurt and
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: I don't want to be picked on. But it's another
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: thing if you're like, no, I'm okay feeling hurt about this,
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: but I don't want to bring everyone else down. Maybe
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: just go and do that using the grandma thing. Nick's
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: not going to be like, well, I guess I'll just
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: stay away. So I'm not like, bringing down the mood
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: since I don't want people talking about my grandma.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: He actually just texted me that he quits the show. Shit. Shit. Nick,
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: come back.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: Come back.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: Baby, come back. Yeah, but I mean, I'll finish the episode. Oh, right.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: Not unprofessional. Got it. I'll put in my two weeks.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: I wrote the trivia.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: I know. Please actually leave that trivia. That's bullshit.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: But I see your point about empowerment and not necessarily
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: being responsible for other people.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: Right. Like you're allowed to feel those things, but also
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: don't feel like, oh, I should just not be around
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: these people because I'm bringing them down. That's their responsibility
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: if they feel like you're a wet blanket or something.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: I bet you're not. I bet what Jacob's saying is
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: true where... you can feel a certain type of way
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: about this. They will adjust or you will, and there
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: will be a balance that is found, whatever that looks like.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: I don't think putting so much pressure on you being
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: Debbie Downer at a function because you're like, hey guys,
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: don't make fun of that.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 3: Also right now you're resenting them for something that you're
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 3: not telling them about.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: Good point. Because this happened to me last semester. I
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: do a lot of banter and teasing with my students
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: and stuff. And I had a student come in and
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: there was an opportunity to tease them But it was
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: very playful, and it went really well, and it was
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: all really happy. And then another week came up where
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: this student was going to be, I think, late to
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: class or something like that. And so they were emailing
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: me to say, hey, I'm going to be late to class.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: And they were like, I know that you tend to
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: call out students that come in late. I do a
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: big joke. We're like, oh, shame, shame, shame, or whatever.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: Just like, OK, they're here. Let's sit down and get
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: back to work or whatever. But this person wrote me
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: and was like, you don't know me very well, but
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: I'm a pretty sensitive soul. And I just would appreciate
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: if you didn't tease me. And I was like, thank you.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: You've told me. Great. Now I can be accountable for
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: that because you're laughing.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: And you're not upset at them for that.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: And I think my jokes aren't tasteless or whatever. I
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: think it's playful. But you've told me that even any
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: attention on you for being late or something like that,
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: it would hurt you. So great. Now I can know that.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: But I think it goes back to your point, Jacob.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: Of course, an easier way to avoid that is to
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: not be late. Yeah. You can just be on time.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: But no, that underlines your point you were just making.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: I really agree with you that actually you're holding them
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: accountable for something they don't know. You're laughing. You're playing along,
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: but you need to find a way to communicate to them, hey,
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: I know you don't mean any harm, but sometimes your
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: joking is a little harsher than what works for me,
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: and I feel insecure about it. It hurts my feelings.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: And I know that's not what you want to do.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: You're my friend, but I'm letting you know. That's huge,
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: giving them that information. They can't change if they don't know.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 3: I say this to say that not everyone goes about
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 3: this the way that I go about this, but I
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 3: do it on this show and on other shows and everything,
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 3: so I'm probably a little more thoughtful about my humor
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 3: than most people might be. Yeah. And like, there are
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 3: things there, there are big swaths of things that I
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 3: just stay away from when I'm making fun of people.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 3: Like if I'm notes, you don't play. If I'm picking
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 3: on somebody, like I don't pick on, I don't pick
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 3: on weight. I don't pick on sex. I don't pick,
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 3: I don't do like sexual jokes. You know, like I
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 3: see people with like coworkers of other genders and everything,
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 3: making sexual jokes and everything.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: And like, like, boy, does that just not ever end well.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 3: There's not a joke that's just so hilarious that you
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 3: have to tell it to that female co-worker over there.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 5: Whatever that joke you think it is, it's just not
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 5: that funny.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: It's not funny enough to be.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 3: Worth all that. All of those kinds of things. I
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 3: only say that because you mentioned me in your letter. Like,
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 3: That's not something that most people are going to be
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 3: thinking about, and they just kind of go at it,
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 3: and they go at it kind of in that style
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 3: without kind of the thoughtfulness behind it. I'm not saying
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 3: that I'm super thoughtful about it, but I'm a little
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 3: thoughtful about it at least. And yeah, so letting them
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 3: know that and giving them that constructive criticism, giving them
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 3: that note might just be all that they need.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that, you know, from the writer's perspective,
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: it's not fucking working for you. So yeah, the advice
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: I'm giving you is how to give feedback. But I
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: think your question was also the other half of that. Like,
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: how do I not take this personally? And I think
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: Whitney was giving you feedback on the behavior of withdrawing
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: and why that is probably problematic and how we want
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: you to lean in. But I'm curious, Nick, you know,
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: what your thoughts are on this idea of like, in life,
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: people are going to step on our toes. And like,
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: I think we're allowed to be hurt by that. And
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: I I'm curious what your read is on the writer.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: Cause it almost sounds like the writer saying, how do
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: I not get hurt? How do I not get, you know,
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: my feelings stepped on? How do I not take it personally?
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: And I don't know about you, but I'm kind of
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: wrestling with that. Cause part of me is like, well,
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Like, I'm not going to tell you
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: how to deny your truth, like, or your emotions. Like
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: maybe something does hurt your feelings. That's okay. It's how
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: you respond is the thing you have control over. I mean,
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: just using your example. Yeah. That you were talking about
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: with your friend. I would feel hurt, too. Also, the
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: same friend that humped me on the pool table.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 3: That guy.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: You didn't have to tell me. You knew.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 3: That's why you're like, why are you friends with this guy?
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: I am 100% serious. When you started describing the person,
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: I knew exactly who you.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: Were talking about. I was wondering why you were like,
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: why are you?
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 3: You were asking about a specific person. You said, why
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 3: are you friends with that person? You were like, that's Joe.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 3: Why are you friends with Joe? But like, I would
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 3: be personally offended too. And I don't know as if
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 3: that's something that you need to fix. I don't think
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 3: that's your job. I think at the end of the day,
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 3: here's my thought.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: I don't know. My two cents on this. I'm 45
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: years old. Damn. I'm halfway through life. I'm running out
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: of fucks to give. Right. If, if I'm in a
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: situation like that and just being like, all right, well,
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: we don't need to hang out. We don't need to associate.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 4: And I'm not hurt by it, but I'm being a
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 4: lot more choosy about how I spend my time.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: And what is going to be worth my energy moving forward?
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: And if it's just like, when I'm around you, this
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: is the way that I feel, and I feel like
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: I have to protect myself when I'm around you, I'm
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: probably not even going to bring it up. Okay.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 4: It's not even worth my energy to bring it up.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 4: I'm just not going to be around you. I don't
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 4: disagree with that at all. I can just move forward.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 4: I don't need this.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 3: I think all of our advice is predicated on if
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 3: you want to continue this path, relationship.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 4: When I'm fucking 60 years old, you think I'm going
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 4: to be sitting here worrying about you?
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: Right. Right. I mean, I get that that... I accept
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: that as an end-all philosophy, right? That if somebody will
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: not change and they're an unfortunate friend, I think that
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: the tension the writer's describing, and hopefully the tension that
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: I gave in my anecdote too, is genuinely liking that person, though.
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: They really are your friend, and you really do want
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: to be around them. And that's fine. But I would
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: stick with what I'm saying. Because I've got a friend
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: like that, too. And I genuinely think he's a good person.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: He's good-spirited. But there's stuff that he says that's just
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: so lacking tact that I'm just like, I don't communicate
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: with him very much anymore. Uh-huh. Yeah.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 4: And it's not because he's not a good person. Like,
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 4: I think he's a wonderful person. But just like, yeah,
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 4: I just don't need to be this close.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 3: Well, it's like you explain to children when they say
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 3: or do something that's unkind, and they say, well, that's
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 3: not what I meant. And there is a difference between
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 3: intention and action.
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: That's true. Yeah. There's a difference between what you mean
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: to communicate and what you actually communicate.
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I definitely don't want the writer to feel like
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: they are the problem and that they need to stop
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: taking it personally. There is something to be said if
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: we notice that we are hypersensitive. That's important too. And
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: I think it's really important to reflect upon things. A
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: lot of anxious people are running back conversations with their
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: friends after every encounter and thinking like, well, what did
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: they mean by that? Like they said this about me
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: and everybody laughed. Is there something about me that I
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: don't realize that Everybody else knows so well that is funny.
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: You know, like, oh, do I look bad in that
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: sweater that I was wearing at the Christmas party? Because
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: obviously this guy made fun of my weight. Like, Jesus,
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: like everybody laughed. Like, so like, I think that checking
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: in on your own hypersensitivity, there is therapeutic value to that.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: Like one does have to check in on themselves and ask, hey, like,
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: am I taking too much ownership of this remark? Am
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: I giving this too much power in my life? what
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: was their intention? That does matter. The example that you
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: gave was obvious. You know? Yeah. Like that's fucking obvious.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: No one in this room would be like, geez, Jim,
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: lighten up.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: Why are you being so sensitive, Jim? Like no one
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: here would think that. But there are, I'm sure there
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: are examples of that where, you know, somebody is like,
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: you know what? The way Whitney looked at me, just
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: like I felt insulted or I felt like she was
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: judging me. It's like, in a case like that, it's like, Yeah.
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 4: Well, what part of that is your interpretation of what happened?
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: Right. If someone's like, Jim, you're fat, there's no level
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: of interpretation on that. It's pretty direct. That's pretty direct.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: But I think what you're also creating is space for CBT, right?
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: Because if somebody's like, oh, I interpreted Whitney's chuckle at
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: my expense as she doesn't care for me, and it's like, well, no,
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: let's crack that open with cognitive behavioral therapy, right? Is
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: there another explanation? Well- Yeah, it was awkward and she
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: wanted to bring levity with a chuckle so that we
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: could all just fluidly move the fuck on. That doesn't
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: mean that she's endorsing that person's joke at your expense, right?
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: It could have just been like a polite chuckle to
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: just move along so we can keep going. To piggyback
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: on Jim's story, if Jim erupted with rage after the
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: guy said, you know, Jim's a fatty or whatever.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 3: Like, then we could talk about that. We could talk about, like,
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 3: overreactions to it. But that doesn't sound like what the
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 3: writer is describing at all. And the writer is describing, like...
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 3: The writer goes internal with it.
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: That's it. They don't externalize.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 3: The writer is going very internal with it. But the
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 3: writer also says in their letter that they understand. Intellectually,
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 3: they get it. Emotionally, they're having a hard time with it.
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: That's where you got to do that personal work, writer.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: Because I don't know that there's any way to inoculate
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: yourself against it. Except to get into the habit of
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: doing the reflective, you know, questioning, doing the insight driven work,
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: challenging what the emotions say, right? Because feelings are not facts.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: And a lot of people that have anxiety and are
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: hypersensitive are constantly like reviewing all the stuff in their head.
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: And they're making these statements way louder than they really
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: were or making them much more, you know, serious or
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: indicting when they really weren't. They were these passive things.
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: So I do think that right-sizing that is really important.
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: I do think cognitive behavioral therapy is one of the
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: approaches one can use to sort of like challenge the
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: way they're interpreting things versus the way things actually are.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, if you are
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: a sensitive person, I'm a big fan of telling people
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: that are supposed to be your friends in life, hey,
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: I know nobody means any harm, but like I'm a
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: tender little butterfly and I'd prefer not to be the
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: object of the teasing. And like, okay, and as long
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: as you don't dish it out, I think you're fine
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: after that. But if you get out there and you
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: dish it out, Ryder, it's coming back to you. They
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: always dish it out. You always dish it out. Nobody
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: can take it. They always dish it out. Anyway, good question, Ryder.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: Very apropos.
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 3: We're going to take another break. And when we come back,
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 3: we're talking about understanding childhood through generational lenses. You're listening
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 3: to Pod Therapy.
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 4: Today's episode was brought to you by Judy Schneider, Leon Kassab,
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 4: Carolyn Albert, Sammy Scoop, Sarah Smith, Mike Helm, Darren Cunningham,
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 4: Brady Malachik, Max the Ginger Scoop, Ellie O'Dear, Amy Auerbach,
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 4: and Edgar Allen Ho. If you would like to sponsor
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 4: today's show, become, or any show, I guess, not just
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 4: today's show. You can't sponsor today's show.
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry. That ship has sailed. But become a TheraProducer
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: at patreon.com slash TheraProducer. Unless you are the spaceman from Pluto. Oh,
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: we could make this show really nice.
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 3: If everybody sponsored this episode retroactively, we could put a
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 3: lot of spit polish on this show.
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: Okay. This episode could be really nice. Only they would sponsor. Yeah.
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: So through a little digging. Okay. The comic book that
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: the kid was holding was called Space Zombies from Pluto. Okay.
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: But Jim, you are correct. His dad's book was A
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: Spaceman from Pluto. There it is.
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: How many times have you seen this movie, Jim?
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. I do not know. I've heard people
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: say it is considered to be the perfect movie. And
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: that in film schools, they teach using it. It's... It
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: is a very clearly written movie.
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 3: Like the first, second, the third acts, all of that
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 3: stuff is very, very clear in the writing in Back
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 3: to the Future. I think that might be what you're
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 3: talking about there. Fits the template properly. I've seen Back
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 3: to the Future a lot. I am an early 80s baby.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was right.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: I have seen Back to the Future a lot. Okay, Jim.
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: In Casualties of War, you know, the movie Casualties of War.
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: Michael J. Fox.
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: 1989.
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, of course. Who directed Michael J. Fox in this
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: dramatic departure from his comedic roles? Yeah. I'm going to
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: need options because I was four years old when this
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: came out. Excuses. Oliver Stone.
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: Sounds right.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: Brian De Palma. Stanley Kubrick. Oh, shit. Or Adrian Lane.
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: Give me Kubrick. No. Shit. Sorry.
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: Is it my turn?
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: Kubrick's lesser known war picture. No.
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 2: Damn it.
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: Lane. Five points for Nick. It was Brian De Palma.
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: All right. I am doing great. Honestly, I'm disappointed that
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: all the questions are not just Back to the Future questions. Whitney,
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: in Back to the Future 2. There we go.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 4: What is the name of the futuristic cafe where Marty
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 4: encounters his future son?
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: Option.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: Name of the cafe.
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: Cafe 80s. No. Cafe 2015. The Retro Diner or Blast
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: from the Past.
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 2: He meets his future son there?
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 4: The dorky kid in the- Why are you talking about
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 4: this like you've never watched this movie?
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 2: I've probably seen parts of Back to the Future 2.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: Oh my god. Oh my god.
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: Isn't that where he dances with his mom or something?
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: No, he does more of the dance with her. He
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: does the horizontal mambo. No, he doesn't. She wants it. Yeah,
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: she wants that.
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 2: That's all I remember. And doesn't he get on stage
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: and try and play music, but it's too trendy?
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 1: He plays a beautiful rendition of Johnny B.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: Goode. No, but they don't like it.
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: They love it until it's too much because he starts
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: fucking banging.
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 2: Maybe that's what it is. That's the only part I
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 2: remember about this.
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: That's all Back to the Future 1.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: Was it?
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: Back to the Future 2. Oh, shit.
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 3: Back to the Future 1, he goes in the past
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 3: to deal with his parents. Back to the Future 2,
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 3: he goes in the future to deal with his children.
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 2: Oh, then maybe I've never seen the second one.
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: Number one, he goes to the 50s.
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 3: Number two, he goes into the 2020s.
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: I think about where we are now.
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 2: 2015.
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: And then Back to the Future 3, he goes to
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: the Old West.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 3: 1885.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: Oh, the West. That's right. Okay. Whitney, answer this question,
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: then you can see yourself out.
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 2: How'd I get on this podcast? How'd I end up here?
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: Imposter syndrome. Okay, so he is seeing his futures. Okay,
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 2: so what are the options?
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 3: 80s?
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: Cafe 80s. Pretty much. Cafe 80s. Cafe 2015.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: The Retro Diner.
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: Or Blast from the Past.
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 2: Retro Diner.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: No. Cafe 80s. It was Cafe 80s. Oh, okay. Yeah.
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: Who was the kid? This is a bonus. For the rebound. Oh, yes.
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: Who was the kid playing the video game? Who was
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: the actor? Very young actor. Uh-huh. That was an extra
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: that was playing the video game.
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: I'm just kidding.
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: Pretty solid guess.
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 2: This movie was made in the 80s and a young kid. Oh,
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: I have a guess.
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: I'm probably wrong. Well, Whitney's not going to get it.
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: So let her think as you guess.
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: Jake Gyllenhaal.
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: No. Okay.
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: Tom Hanks. No. Tom Hanks?
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 3: What?
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 2: He would have been old.
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's older. He's old. In the 80s, he's playing big. So, yeah,
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: he would have.
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but he's still an adult. Oh, is this a child?
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: This is a child. Oh, I thought it was a
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: teenager playing video games. Is it Corey Feldman? No. So
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: it's a child. All right, next question. And it's filmed
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: in the 80s. Ben Savage.
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: Fred Savage.
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: It was. I'm forgetting his name. Wow. Fuck you and
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: your trivia. Frodo. Oh, Elijah. Elijah Wood. Yeah, it was
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: Elijah Wood.
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 5: Huh.
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: I have a picture with him somewhere. He is a
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: tiny man. He's from Iowa, I believe.
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: Well, he's a hobbit.
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: He's very sweet, but he's extremely small. He's from the
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: Shire of Iowa. Okay, Jacob.
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 4: What was the name of Michael J. Fox's character in
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 4: the 1996 film Mars Attacks?
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 1: Oh, this.
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 3: Wait.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: I think he should also get points if he can
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: just name the identity that character is in the movie.
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: He's like the assistant to... Somebody or something. I don't remember.
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: What are the options? Jason Stone, Jason Miller, Richie Norris,
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: or Jerry Ross. Oh, is he a TV guy in
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: Mars Attack? Yes, he's a TV. He's a news anchor.
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: Jason Stone, yes. Correct. Great.
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 2: I was like, fuck you.
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: I just said, hey. It's just a rattle loose. Yeah.
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: It's never A.
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm clearly winning.
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: You last two were A.
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: And we're kind of getting out of time on the show.
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: So I think I'm going to go ahead and say
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: we're not going to take a quick break. We're just
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: going to get to the end of the show. Anyway,
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: we're at the end of the show. As we wrap
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: up the show, we want to remind you. This is
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: our first show, everybody.
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 2: We're doing it. Also last. Where am I?
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: You can sign up at patreon.com slash therapy. You can
• 1:19:25
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• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: well as enjoy our live chat discord community. and our
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: deep dives, interviews, skill shares, research, roundups, and rants. And
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: as of today, I believe that we do have a
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: new couple of friends that have joined us at the TheraParty.
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: Who's new there at patreon.com slash therapy, Nick? We have
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: a new TheraPod, and this was not planned. Time travel bushcraft.
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 2: Is it Michael J.
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: Fox? Yes, it is Michael J. Fox. He is actually listening.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: So this is time travel. And then we've got a
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: new pterodactyl, Timu Ricky Gervais. Thank you. All right. Yes.
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: Great reference. And we'd like to thank the benevolent, revered, generous,
• 1:20:04
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• 1:20:07
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• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: we want to thank our bosses, the mysterious and shrouded
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: Illuminati members of the fan club that they're producers. Thank you,
• 1:20:14
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  Speaker 4: If you would like to hear this episode uncut and unedited,
• 1:20:56
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• 1:20:59
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• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: That's all the time we've got for this week's session.
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: I want to thank our landlords. 3-4-4-5-Tetra-Michael-A-Cyclean-D-5-D-N-O-N-E-Studio, also known as
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 1: Penguinianio Studio. Sorry, Nick. Don't worry, I'll fix that post. Yeah,
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: I just... Saying it fast doesn't... No, you're not fooling anyone.
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 3: Share the episode with the world.
• 1:21:25
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• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: Do you want to submit a question to the show?
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: You can ask anonymously at podtherapy.net, email us at podtherapyguys
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: at gmail.com, or click the link in the episode description
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: to be taken to our anonymous Google form. I'm Nick.
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 2: I'm Whitney.
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: I'm Jim. Thanks, and we'll see you for your appointment
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: next week. Bum, bum, bum, bum. Bum. I'm so white. Bye.
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 5: Bye.
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: Shit, that's a drop now.