Latest / Bless This Mess: A Southern True Crime Podcast / 108. [Florida] Norma Page

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108. [Florida] Norma Page · Bless This Mess: A Southern True Crime Podcast

0:20
Every Well, welcome to bless this message Trum podcast. I don't care here
0:23
with do so has to? Hey? All right, so we are back.
0:27
We've been on a little break because we were moving to our new recording
0:32
studio aka a different room in a different state, in a different house,
0:40
same amount of ship laying around us. It's like we never left. We
0:46
never left. All the crap we never organized that was in the room that
0:50
we recorded is back in a room. But we're gonna do better this time.
0:54
I'm putting to be organized in this home. Yes, anyways, So
1:00
yeah, so we're back after we moved to Texas. We are getting settled.
1:07
It's a slogo because we have two small children, so you know,
1:14
anyways, do you have anything to say? We're enjoying our new home though,
1:19
we like our new home. Well, I would hope so. Well,
1:23
I well, I understand you're so annoying, Like why are you you?
1:29
Why'd you marry me? I don't know, Stuart at this moment,
1:32
I don't know what do you mean? Why can't you just say, yes,
1:34
we're enjoying our new home. We really like our new home. Yes,
1:38
anyways, God, it's infuriating. All right, So I was looking
1:45
back though we have been solid for a year. We've taken minimal breaks for
1:49
a whole year, which is pretty impressive for us. Yeah, besides going
1:53
on the cruise, I think we only took a couple We took a couple
1:56
off because we went to Arkansas for we want our cruise. We want an
2:00
Arkansas. Yes, I think we went someplace else. Point. Yeah.
2:08
Well, all I'm saying is like we've been steady for a year, which
2:12
is good for us since we were gone for two years before that. So
2:15
anyways, so if you are new here, go check out our Facebook and
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our Instagram at Blessed This Mess podcast. Check out our Patreon. You get
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all the episodes twenty four hours early and add free and then rate, review,
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subscribe on iTunes, anything else? No, okay, no one wants
2:34
to hear him stew anyways, They don't because whatever he says is probably gonna
2:38
annoy me. Anyways, all right, so let's get into this week's episode
2:42
out of Florida. He's flipping me off right now? What you're flipping me
2:47
off? Right now? Did you not think I was gonna mention that as
2:52
Beth and he would say, I mention it all I did not think you
2:54
wouldn't mention that Norma Paige Nate Thomas was born in nineteen fifty and we don't.
3:04
I couldn't really find a lot of information about her, so we just
3:08
know that she had several sisters and so, like I said, not much
3:12
about her early life, but she did would later go on to meet James
3:15
Jim Page and they would marry. Now Jim would go on to be a
3:20
pastor in Saint Cloud, Florida, which is just a small little Florida town.
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I didn't check the current populations if it's still small, but it's definitely
3:30
small back then. Yes, Now, Jim and Norma they would have two
3:34
children, both boys named Adam and Steve. And then in nineteen seventy nine,
3:38
why are you laughing, Stuart? Is it because it's like, not
3:45
Adam and Eve, it's Adam and Steve. Yes, it's growing up in
3:50
a religious environment. Growing up. I heard that one a lot. Yes,
3:57
you did not grow up in a religious environment. How do you know,
4:00
Well, you grew up kind of, but not like I did.
4:01
No, I didn't know you grew up like weird. Yeah, we were
4:05
crazy, like going to the circus tent revival stuff. Oh yeah, that
4:09
was our vacation one year. We went to Florida, but not for the
4:15
not for the ocean, for a revival anyway, like something out of that
4:20
first season A True Detective. Yeah, yeah, something like that. No,
4:27
it was more my dad than my mom. But my mom like as
4:30
we grow older, like my mom was like, this is ridiculous. We're
4:32
not doing this. We're not doing this anymore. Anyways, it was me
4:36
and my dad like another level. Anyways, So again, Adam and Steve,
4:43
I don't know if those were the children's it could be not the children's
4:46
name there was. It was very hard to find information about and the show
4:50
change the names. Yeah, well this isn't now the show. This was
4:53
out of something I found online, an article written. So I'm pretty sure
4:57
there's that's their names, but just giving the the details, yeah, the
5:02
details, drink now. In nineteen seventy nine, the family was thriving in
5:06
their small community. Norma was enjoying raising her two boys, who were now
5:11
four and two, while Jim led the local congregation. On June twenty first,
5:16
nineteen seventy nine, a twenty two year old Thomas Ivester, who was
5:21
a neighbor of the page. That was definitely his name, was it?
5:25
Yes, Now he was at his home. I Vester the molester at oh
5:29
god, Chester, wasn't it Chester? I know? But he has ivester.
5:33
I mean he had to get made fun of when he was growing up.
5:35
You think, oh, yeah, kids are cruel. Yes, Now
5:41
he saw two young boys running across the yard towards his house. Now,
5:45
they came up to the front door and they started knocking on that. Where
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does this make you confuse? He's like, imagine him standing at the window
5:54
and you see are you staying at the window and see two boys running at
5:57
your house? And all of a sudden they're just beating on the door.
6:00
So he opens the door and he recognizes the boys as the page's sons.
6:04
The oldest tells Thomas that somebody is hurting my Mommy. Thomas immediately goes over
6:11
to the Pages with the boys in tow and upon entering the home, he
6:16
can see that the house has been torn apart. He calls out for Norma
6:20
but gets no response. Now that's when the four year old points him in
6:24
the direction down the hall and tells him that his mom is in there.
6:28
You can tell Thomas is twenty two years old because he brought the children with
6:30
him. He don't know, he's twenty two, you know, something bad's
6:34
hatting at his home. But like mostly grown a like or twenty two is
6:39
very young, so they're not thinking. But like someone who had older that
6:43
had children would be like, Okay, you guys stay in their house.
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I'm gonna go check on Bomby. So Thomas walks to the end of the
6:48
hall and he enters what is the children's bedroom. Upon entering this room,
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he sees Norma lying in a pool of blood on the boy's beds, and
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she's naked. It's clear that she is dead from the state of her body.
7:01
So Thomas quickly gets the boys out of the house and runs back to
7:05
his hound to call the police. Yes, and apparently the boys could see
7:10
the oldest boy could see his mom laying in there like that because he went
7:15
in with Thomas into the room. Again. Because Thomas, let's not blame
7:20
him, he's twenty two, he just didn't he's not thinking, not thinking
7:24
about stuff like that. So now police arrived to the house to find a
7:28
horrific crime scene. Norah Norma, not Nora Norma. What there's a little
7:33
girl that was in the little gym class or whatever. Her name was,
7:40
Nora. I think that name's coming back. You might hear cats or children.
7:45
We're doing our best peer people. Okay, So Norma was nude,
7:49
lying on her stomach, Her hands were bound behind her back, and her
7:53
feet were bound to her children's bed. She was also gagged. Now,
7:58
along with all of the blood, they noticed broken glass everywhere. They quickly
8:01
discovered that a large glass Ketchup bottle had been used in the commission of the
8:07
crime. It'd been. It had broken everywhere. And we're talking about large.
8:11
It's like a milk like a two yeah, like a two pound like
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these people loved ketchup. It was like two pound jar of ketchup, like
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with a handle. Uh, like two years ago through that. Yeah,
8:22
it's I mean, and now I guess you have two small children. Yeah,
8:26
with us, it would probably go through it in two weeks. So
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yeah, it was a big, like massive bottle of ketchup, not like
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your small like HEINZ fifty seven situation. Okay, we're gonna pause and go
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take care of the cats, all right. I gave jingles some treatsque the
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I can hear someone writing the review right now. During the discussion of the
8:48
crime scene, they started talking about their cat unprofessional one star. I gotta
8:54
go find some of them one stars that we have received here. Yeah,
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it's fun. Recently, I don't even look at them anymore. I'm like
9:03
whatever with the year anyways started, Yeah, Jangles want to snack. And
9:09
then you might hear the children. I don't know from here. We don't
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know. They started sharing a room when we moved here. So we have
9:13
an almost three year old and an eighteen month old that now they stay up
9:18
an extra hour just talking to each other and scrawl. Yes, but they're
9:24
in their room, so I'll take it all right. So, so,
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like I said, there's glass everywhere, says from this ketchup, this giant
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two pound thing of ketchup. Well, this made the crime scene very difficult,
9:37
as you can imagine. I mean, not only was their blood everywhere,
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but there's ketchup mixed in as well, same color. I mean,
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it's just it's horrible for these police to have to sift through this. Now,
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this also was not a common occurrence in their small community. They hadn't
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had a murder in over eighteen years, so unprepared. No, So on
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top of this like crazy crime scene where they're blood and ketchup everywhere. Then
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on top of that they there these are inexperienced homicide investigators. These this isn't
10:07
like Chicago or something where it's like, oh, another one, just another
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Tuesday. Where's our team, where's our this week's team? For murders?
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And let alone not just a murder, but a brutal murder at that,
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because this was, like I said, she was. Her autopsy would later
10:22
reveal that Norma had been stabbed thirty four times in the neck as well have
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been been beaten with a large blood force object, which was that large ketchup
10:31
bottle. Now, despite all appearances of a rape occurring because she was nude
10:35
and she was tied to the bed, they did not recover any biological evidence
10:39
of a rape. So they're not sure what happened if, like the person
10:43
intended to rape her and things got out, like yeah, something so didn't
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finish. Yeah that's what you're saying, yeah something, Well, they didn't.
10:54
They didn't see any signs of like rape down there, like any bruising
11:00
or torn tissues and things like that, So it would appear that maybe whoever
11:05
was doing this either didn't thought about it and so they had tied her up
11:11
and when she was nude, but then it ended up killing her and going
11:13
out of control and then leaving. As investigators continued to process the scene,
11:18
in addition to the blood on the mattress and the walls in the boy's room,
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they also found items of clothing and other parts of the house with blood
11:26
on them. This included a bikini top in the bathroom, as well as
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a child's t shirt with blood on it at the foot of the bed.
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Outside the home, it appeared that the murderer had dropped a hand towel with
11:37
blood all over that as he fled the scene. They found no signs of
11:43
forced entry into the home, so investigators believed that either Norman knew the person
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or allowed them inside the home because it was a congregation or the they were
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pastors, you know. And this was back in this nineteen seventy nine people
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of trusting people. So they come to the house and like, hey,
12:03
I'm on hard time. So they this happened in another one we did where
12:05
the they went let the guy use the phone and give him a water or
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whatever. Yes, and it was back in it was an old they were
12:15
pastors and stuff like that. Yes, the two children were somehow lived through
12:18
it, Yeah, but mom and dad were not so fortunate. Yeah.
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And these these items of clothing that they found, they were distinct because they
12:28
weren't in the massive like blood that was everywhere. It was like separate items
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of clothing where they thought maybe someone had it looked like separate blood, like
12:37
maybe the killer had wiped something off of they had hurt themselves or done something.
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So in the commission because like with that ketchup bottle, there was blood,
12:48
I mean, it was like glass everywhere. So the killer, they
12:50
believe, probably cut his hand or something and used those. And so these
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these items were separate the big blood, bloody area that they thought maybe might
13:03
belong to the killer. Now investigators begin piecing together the events leading up to
13:09
Norma's murder. On the day of the murder, Norma was seen out in
13:11
the front in her front yard, hanging laundry on a line to drive with
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her two children. Her husband, Jim was out of town on a religious
13:18
retreat, maybe a revivals too, in Florida. Well, he was in
13:24
Florida, out of tent Oh. The tent revival. Yeah, someone I
13:31
know and her dad took her there the family. Uh anyways, too close
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to home, No, I was. You can imagine that relationship is rocky
13:46
at this moment. So they tracked down Jim and confirmed he was out of
13:52
town and let him know about the murder, and he was completely devastated,
13:56
they said. Jim quickly returned home to be with his children. Now,
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the oldest boy was interviewed by police since he witnessed the man that murdered his
14:03
mother. Because the oldest was four, so obviously the two year old completely
14:09
unreliable witness for sure. Yeah. Our two year old is like, I
14:15
can't even she can't even get it. Yeah, minie mouse did it,
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you know. So but the four year old, you know, he had
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seen things, and he was a little bit more could communicate what he had
14:26
seen. So they bring him into interviewing and he told the police that the
14:30
man approached them while they were in the front yard and he first forced her
14:33
his mom in him and his brother into the car and they went to the
14:37
bank. Now, after returning from the bank, he told police that the
14:41
man took their mom to their room and put him and his brother in another
14:46
room. He said that his mom told him to the last thing she said
14:48
and was take your little brother and run for help, like as soon as
14:52
you can. So, I guess the guy that did this was not concerned
14:54
about the children escaping practice. He saw they were so little. He's like,
14:58
what are they going to to do or whatever? But they were able
15:01
to go get help, so anyway, so he said, So that's what
15:07
he said. He did as soon as he could get away, as soon
15:09
as his mom was in the other room and he was locked in there with
15:11
his brother. He described the man as a as being white with mutton chops,
15:16
which if you don't know, those are like sideburnstew can look like big
15:20
chops on the side of your face. Yeah. He was wearing a short
15:24
sleeved country western type shirt and had a tattoo on his upper arm country westerner.
15:31
Yeah. And the child was very adamant about the tattoo on his arm.
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He's like, he had this. I saw this tattoo on his arm.
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I don't know. They didn't explain what it was, but he knew
15:41
there was a tattoo. Now, the little four year old was able to
15:46
give police a big lead with the description of the perpetrator and telling them about
15:52
the bank. So police pulled the records for Normous bank account and found out
15:56
that between twelve and twelve thirty, on the day of the murder, checks
16:00
for cash that told the amount of two hundred and thirteen dollars. Police interviewed
16:06
the teller at the bank and she said she remembered seeing Norma driving with a
16:10
man in the passenger seat, and she described a man exactly as normal son
16:14
had described him as well, mutton chops, brown hair, wearing a country
16:18
western style shirt. Police processed the vehicle for prints and were able to find
16:22
some on the rear view mirror as well as the passenger outside mirror. Yeah,
16:27
so this gave some real validity to the child saying that he had the
16:30
tattoo because the teller described the exact same everything. So they're like, Okay,
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this kid's got a good memory, saw everything, and he's clearly telling
16:41
us. You know, everything he's telling us is true. Now, with
16:45
this information, they now had a solid description from two separate people as well
16:51
as fingerprints to go on. They were able to trace the fingerprints back to
16:55
a twenty two year old gas station attendant in town named j. Beass gonna
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say is the teller? Why she probably knew like the distinct description, you
17:04
know, because because she's nosy, she's like, that's not normous's with you
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know, because you're the town pastor and that's the pastor's wife. And she
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shows up with another man. I guess if you got a bank teller.
17:21
And I sit in the in the window all day and well, yeah,
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but now I know, like, well now I know, like you have
17:29
cameras now, but like you don't, you don't have your regular bank teller.
17:32
But this was a small town. Everyone knew each other, and so
17:34
she was probably being nosy. She's like, oh, who's Norma running around
17:38
with? She's probably starting gossip and everything. And they found out she was
17:41
murdered. I wonder if she felt what a bitch research that, Yes,
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we need to find who this bank teller was. So anyways, so they
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these fingerprints are traced back to a gas station attendant town named Jay Bass.
17:57
Because back then, you know, they got your gas for you, did
18:03
they? I don't know they still do in some states. It's the law.
18:08
Oh yeah, I've heard that we used to have one in Lafayette,
18:11
but that one that fun finally stopped doing that. There was one in town
18:17
that did that hat come out there? Yeah, it was the one on
18:22
Johnston Street down by the University. It was like a mechanic shop and a
18:27
gas station, but they got rid of that anyways. So now j Bass,
18:33
he did have a similar look to what had been described to police.
18:37
He had the mutton chops. However, he was missing that tattoo that the
18:40
little boy was like. Clearly said the man had this tattoo on his arm.
18:45
He also did not have an extensive criminal history. His only arrest had
18:48
come the year before when he stole a fully decorated Christmas tree to impress his
18:52
girlfriend. It's a big jump to go from violently murdering someone to you know,
19:00
from still in a Christmas tree, which is kind of a silly crime.
19:08
So they interviewed Jay and he told police if he did it, he
19:11
did not remember this word God got himself in a bind. They interviewed Jay
19:17
and he told, oh, I just said that. They also found three
19:21
eyewitnesses that day that said that they saw j Bass near the Page's home.
19:26
Now, his prints could have gotten on the car from his job at the
19:29
gas stations. I've said it was on the rear view mirror, and like
19:33
a side mirror. What are those side mirrors called? When I was writing
19:38
this, I was like, what are those mirrors? But did I say
19:44
side mirrors? Okay? Yeah, So Stuart, there's a lot going on
19:49
right now that I've had none. How much have you had to drink?
19:55
Shot? Shot shots? So anyway, so he could have gotten his is
20:00
prints on the vehicle on the outside on the side view mirror. However,
20:04
the rear view mirror is a little bit more like how did this happen?
20:10
So they took the evidence to the state prosecutors. However, the prosecutor refused
20:15
to move forward with the charges. He believed that the evidence was too circumstantial
20:18
and that they had no forensic evidence placing him inside the home at the time
20:22
of the murder, because this is just a couple of fingerprints inside her car,
20:26
but there's like there's none inside the actual house, Like there's no anything
20:30
inside the house. Obviously they didn't have DNA back there. They could run
20:33
back then, but it's like, can you find these fingerprints on a car
20:37
but you can't find nothing inside of mar Yeah, if he's stupid enough to
20:41
put it in the car, and then they also said there was back and
20:45
forth. They asked the husband, did you ever have you know that vehicle
20:52
service there and stuff like that, and he said no, but you know
20:56
that's also just going on the husband's memory or you know, you just so,
21:00
the prosecutor was not happy with what they were presenting him, and they
21:03
didn't think it would actually go through in a court case, so refused to
21:07
press charges. Upset normous family believed that they had let a killer go,
21:12
and so did the community. They're like, are you serious he had his
21:15
fingerprints in there. He said he couldn't remember if he did it or not.
21:18
Well, j bass. He left town shortly after, and nothing moved
21:22
forward with the case. Yeah, him and his girlfriend split town. Yeah,
21:25
so then took their fully decorated Christmas tree. Yes, they stole,
21:30
they stole, they and they left town and this day they still have the
21:37
Christmas tree. I'm kidding. I don't know was that in the research.
21:42
Yeah, So after he left town, everybody's like, well, now he
21:45
must really be guilty because he left town. He won't stay around here with
21:49
our glaring eyes. Yeah, well, everybody thought he was a murderer,
21:52
so I probably wouldn't stay there either. No, I wouldn't either, but
21:56
him leaving just made everybody think he was even more guilty than the thought.
22:00
Yeah, and everybody is upset because they're like, this psychopath has now left
22:03
town and is off to do this again somewhere else, somewhere else. Yeah.
22:07
So decades would pass with no new developments in the case. Finally,
22:14
in about twenty ten, a distant relative of Norma's began bringing the case to
22:18
the attention of some friends that she had in law enforcement. This is like
22:22
a distant cousin of some sort of Yeah, it was some random, like
22:26
distant cousin that started chit chatting with the one of the sisters, got on
22:32
ancestry or h Yeah, and it turns in She's like, oh, they
22:34
never saw that murder. I can't believe it. I feel like that.
22:37
I think the cousin maybe was in law enforce. They didn't say, but
22:41
I feel like maybe she was. She had to have some sort of connection
22:44
with law enforcement, because she said, I can't believe the connections. Yeah,
22:47
she said, I can't believe they haven't. You know, it wasn't
22:49
solved this with as much evidence that they collected at the scene. Yeah,
22:53
I'm getting there, and a specific suspect. Yeah, I'm getting it.
22:56
Okay, Stuart, I'm getting to that. Okay. Now. She could
23:00
not believe that they had all this evidence and Sell had not solved the case.
23:08
It's like I wrote it or something. It's almost like you wrote it.
23:12
It's almost like I was there for once. For once. Now,
23:17
when law enforcement began looking into the cold case, they found that the evidence
23:21
had never been tested with modern forensics, and that there was likely the killer's
23:25
DNA all over some of the items that they had in their possession, which
23:29
just happens. I know, this happens all the time. Like there's murders.
23:33
There's probably a box sitting there. Well they all forgot about well I
23:36
know, and they have all the well until you know, someone pushes it
23:41
or That's why it's like real important for like the families to keep on these
23:45
police forces. Every time there's a new new detectives in their new leadership,
23:52
you go in there and you make a fuss and get them to Yeah.
23:56
Well, because there's all those untested rape kits too, there's that backlog of
24:00
kids. Well that happens to be like a money problem along with a just
24:03
overload as well. Well I know that, but I'm saying that's a shame
24:06
that there's all these rape kits and or in cold case murders and DNA and
24:11
we just don't have enough money or time to deal with it. Exactly,
24:15
why don't you go deal with that? Well, why don't you, Stewart?
24:21
No, no, okay, you don't want me on the case.
24:26
I don't want you on the case. I don't even trust you to write
24:30
one of these episodes like he was in there eating a sandwich while he was
24:34
testing DNA, So porky pig did it. So anyway, the family got
24:45
the place to reopen the case, and they assigned a new detective to look
24:48
into it. The first thing, with the help of his cousin. His
24:52
cousin was she she knew like she was in with all these guys. So
24:56
I think she just proud of the family to get into No, she she
25:00
said, she spoke to law enforcement, like and she knew him. Yeah,
25:04
No, she didn't know the people in Saint Cloud. She knew him
25:07
from wherever she was from. She had friends in the business. Okay,
25:11
well whatever, it's almost like you don't know what's happening. It's almost like
25:15
you were stupid. Really Now, the first thing the new detective looked into
25:19
was why J Bass had been let go at all all those years ago,
25:25
since all the evidence was pointing towards him. He got a warrant for Jay's
25:30
DNA sample and he compared it to the DNA that they found at the crime
25:33
scene. It was not a man. You were not the father. You
25:37
were not the father. Later on, it would be investigated as to whether
25:41
the police department back in nineteen seventy nine had tried to frame J. Bass,
25:47
and there was evidence pointing to it being a possibility, but charges were
25:51
never brought against anybody in the Yeah, apparently they had modern forensic experts test
25:59
where they said that they got the fingerprints and it was something about the curvature
26:02
on the mirror where they were saying they would have never been able to pull
26:04
those prints and it would look more like they just pulled prints from his arrest
26:08
from the Christmas Tree instid rolled him on there. Yeah, it was,
26:12
uh, anyways, So we don't know if those We don't know if the
26:17
J guy even said I don't remember. We don't know if any of that
26:21
because it was all probably just a set up to try to just frame somebody
26:23
so they could say, yeah, yeah, yeah, I didn't like him.
26:30
They were probably stole the chiefs like Christmas Tree, and he was upset
26:33
about he was dating the chief's daughter. Yeah, and that was the girl
26:37
he was trying to impress, and so he they framed him. So it
26:41
was quite quite clear they framed him. But these people never got I mean
26:45
it was like thirty years before, so they just it's hard to prove and
26:51
hard to get charges bar up against police officers. I never actually got him
26:56
in jail. They just kind of ran him at it. Well, they
26:57
runed his life, but they run but he ruined his life. He spent
27:03
they said on the thing. The detective said that he went and the j
27:07
guy cried and everything because he said he's been living like fear that he's gonna
27:11
get arrested it every day for the last thirty years. So yeah, they
27:15
ruined his life. Still, if everyone in your hometown thought you murder brutally
27:21
murdered somebody, then you had to leave town, and you know they had
27:23
your fingerprints and stuff in there. You knew you didn't do it, wouldn't
27:26
you be worried every day that they were gonna come and arrest you. Okay,
27:30
Stuart, there's there are innocent people in prison right now. I'm figuring
27:37
if they didn't get him back when they wouldn't, they would't get him up
27:38
for thirty years, Stewart, you don't know though. They obviously were able
27:42
to frame him with these fingerprints back then and get away with it if it
27:48
wasn't for that prosecutor being like, this is gonna sketchy looking. So they
27:52
continued to process evidence and found that the same DNA profile was found on all
27:56
three of the separate items, including that handtail that was found outside the home,
28:00
so the bikini top, the child's T shirt, the hand up.
28:06
Once they had a solid DNA profile, they entered the information into Cotis and
28:10
received a match. Now it came back to sixty two year old Steve Herman
28:15
Bronson. Now, Bronson was a career criminal. He had been arrested several
28:19
times on counts of grand theft, auto burglary, attempted murder, and rape.
28:25
So he's looking much more like the the guy who did it. So
28:30
they pulled the photos of him from back in nineteen seventy nine and He matched
28:33
the description to a t He even had that tattoo on his arm that the
28:37
little boy said he had. Now, at the time of the murder,
28:40
he was living only ten miles from the pages, so he fits all.
28:42
He fits the bill. I'm thinking he would have been living in jail when
28:47
they found him. Well, I know, but rhymes the attempted murder and
28:52
rape. Yes, Stuart, the criminal justice system has was not as harshback
28:56
then. It's not that mars well, I don't know, it's harsher though.
29:02
It's harsher. Remember that guy that like tried to kill that girl out
29:04
in California, like chopped off her arms and everything like that, and he
29:07
was released and then he went over in Florida and killed somebody. After like
29:11
ten years, they let him out back but that was like back in the
29:12
day, and that's all he got for that. So police bring all Bronson
29:17
not to be confused with Charles Bronson of death wish. Oh I thought you
29:21
were gonna say, Pierce Bronson. Uh, do you know who Pierce Bronson
29:26
is? Is it Bronson or Brosnan? Bronson, Pierce Brosen, Pierce Brosnan,
29:34
Yeah, okay, whatever, Yes, Anyway, the best Double of
29:41
seven Now, yeah, Stuart, whatever, whatever done, whatever double of
29:47
seven you grew up with, is the double grew up with, like two
29:49
of them? Okay, well the Double O seven. No, but there's
29:52
this very specific time frame of whenever you're a young person that there's a double
29:57
of seven and that's your You're double O seven, James Bond. Okay,
30:03
well you're old. But the reason he is is because he was the one.
30:07
He was the Double O seven in the that they made the game in
30:11
the PlayStation game look like. And I used to love that game. So
30:17
that's how I feel about it. Nobody cares. Didn't know his last name,
30:22
but so I feel about it. I will passionately argue even if I'm
30:26
wrong. You are wrong, You're wrong. I'm not doing this because I
30:32
don't even care about a Facebook status from ten years ago. No one should
30:37
read their Facebook statuses from those memories shouldn't even pop up. Why because they're
30:42
so stupid. Because you're so stupid ten years ago on Facebook. Everybody was
30:48
stupid ten years ago. So you're saying all the things you said to me
30:52
years ago, Yeah, it was all dumb. I'm like, who was
30:53
this person? You know? Like that has been like in twenty twenty eleven,
31:00
twenty twelve, you're like trying to be like deep and you put like
31:03
song lyrics because you're trying to show people you did. I think I did
31:08
at some point I posted a song lyric or two. I know right you
31:12
were. Yeah, I'm just saying it's a rough time on the on the
31:17
interwebs, on the social media. We've come a long way anyways. Nothing,
31:22
Yeah, not posting anything my profile. There's nothing there. Yeah,
31:26
because yeah, you get in trouble all the time. Now. Anyway,
31:30
they bring a man to questioning. He's living in a nearby nursing home at
31:34
the time, a decade before he had changed his name to Nancy Sue Bronson,
31:41
and they began asking him about a cold case. Well, I just
31:47
I threw that in there. He had he a decade before, he had
31:49
changed his name to Nancy Sue Bronson, and this and this is gonna come
31:56
up. He didn't actually like say he was a woman. He's you'll see,
32:01
he's mentally deteriorating. So that comes up again here in a minute.
32:07
I put it in the wrong spot, but it comes up again. Wow,
32:14
Okay, go on, we need an editor. They started asking him
32:20
about a cold case, and he brought up Normal Page. He told police
32:23
that he had never been in the Pages home, and that's when they present
32:28
the DNA evidence doing spring the trap. Yeah, he's set the trap.
32:32
He's like, I haven't ever been in her house, and then it's like,
32:36
we found your fingernail clipping. So seeing no way out, he begins
32:42
telling police that he saw Norma outside the home and decided to stop on a
32:45
whim because she was pretty. He approaches her asking for a glass of water,
32:52
and once inside, he forces her to the car and they go to
32:54
the bank. Once back at the house, he said he hit her with
32:58
the ketchup bottle. When they asked why, he said, I went crazy,
33:04
and he simply said he used the ketchup bottle because it was handy,
33:07
his words handy. With a clear confession and DNA evidence, they arrest Bronson
33:13
and charge him with the murder of Norma. Yes, and that's why I
33:17
was saying earlier. We don't know why he didn't rapeer at the time,
33:22
but he just said he went crazy, and I think he just went psycho
33:25
and then left. Again. He's not all there, especially in his older
33:31
age. Yes. Now after a year in custody awaiting trial, and this
33:36
is where the normous there the siouxs Nancy Sue came in. He was pushing
33:40
to be sent to a women's prison. So this like murder rapist of women
33:47
is pushing to be like, says, oh, well, my name is
33:50
Nancy. I need to go to this women's prison. And they were like,
33:53
no, it's not safe for the women for you to be in there.
33:58
So Bronson was brought in for a competency hearing before going to trial.
34:04
Now the competency hearing, he was rolled in on a gurney. And this
34:08
was not for dramatic purposes people, This was like a legit situation. Bronson,
34:14
in the years leading to his arrest had suffered several strokes, leaving him
34:19
bedridden, so his brain's just deteriorating. The judge had no choice but to
34:24
rule that he was mentally unfit to stand trial, but his first degree murder
34:28
charges still stood. So everybody's upset about this because they felt like a cold
34:32
blooded murder had gotten off, which he did. But the fact of the
34:37
matter is if police had looked into this twenty years ago, he would have
34:44
been in prison because he wouldn't have been in the state. But the judge,
34:47
literally by Florida law, could not send him off to a trial.
34:52
He wasn't going to be found guilty at a trial. He didn't mean.
34:54
It's what a wasted everybody's money in time. So with all these murder with
34:59
the his first degree murder charge that's still on his record, he was He
35:05
tried to get into over forty nursing homes and they all refused to take Bronson
35:10
in, including the one he had stayed at at the eight years prior to
35:14
his arrest, because according to that nursing home, he had made several threats
35:19
to attack and kill the female nursing staff. But they were unaware that he
35:22
actually had done this in the past and like maybe they should, like maybe
35:27
this could have been really happened. You know, he's talking about murdering,
35:30
raping in them and everything, and they think he's just this old man that's
35:35
like lost his mind, and come to find out he'd actually done all those
35:38
things. So it was never disclosed where they finally took Bronson, but he
35:43
did die a year later, so he wouldn't have even made it to his
35:46
trial if they had. Yeah, and watching the show, and they actually
35:51
have video footage of him. He looks yeah, even when they brought him
35:54
in to talk to him. He was the first time when they brought him
35:59
in when he wasn't like laying in a hospital bed. He was sitting up
36:01
in a wheelchair. But he's just leaned over and just got that yeah,
36:06
he looks like look, yeah, he could still talk and still say what
36:10
you know, he had done. But whenever he wasn't he just had like
36:14
a vacon stick. If they had waited it, if it had been even
36:16
a year later, they wouldn't have got that out of him because he was
36:20
completely just mentally deteriorated all the way. I mean, it couldn't have happened
36:25
to a better guy. So that's a terrible way to die. So that's
36:29
a good thing for him. That's probably worse than just like living after life
36:32
normally in prison and dying. If they would have found him before he had
36:36
the stroke, they probably gave him medical treatment. He would have never had
36:38
the stroke and hanging out at the prison, because I'm assuming he would have.
36:42
He probably wasn't living like the best lifestyle. He probably didn't have radical
36:50
medical medical regular medical, maybe regular medical care, and therefore it would have
37:00
gotten worse, but or what might have got been better if had he had
37:04
been in a jail. Actually, so I'm getting three hots and a cot
37:08
and medical treatment. Yeah. But I've heard that thing about the strokes.
37:13
People have the strokes, and that's it's called something because that show that I
37:16
watched that you hate that My Big fat, Fabulous Life. Her mom come
37:21
to find out had this, and so she started So she had her first
37:23
stroke and then she had whatever this disease is or whatever, and then she
37:30
had another, and then they start coming more frequently until basically they kill you
37:36
and there's nothing really they can do about it. It's just like stroke after
37:38
stroke after stroke, and they start out like further apart, but then they
37:44
get closer together. So if you got that she just helped, the next
37:46
one takes you, yeah, because like she Yeah, she slowly declined as
37:52
she had more strokes over probably a five or six year period. So that
37:59
was bad, Stu. In case you're wondering old Babs, I remember Babs
38:02
from your show. Yes, yes, so she passed away last year from
38:08
I'm guessing a similar disease. Anyways. All right, Well that's our case
38:14
for this week. Well, the family also went on to try and get
38:17
a law passed so that nursing homes would know that they had a martyr.
38:21
And oh, yeah, they did do that. Do you write, Stuart?
38:23
I mean, had somebody done their research? I shut up, Stu.
38:29
What Stu was actually there when I wrote this episode for once, and
38:32
so now all of a sudden he's an expert on the case. Normally he's
38:37
reading this for the first time, like what's going on? Oh wow,
38:39
that's crazy, And I have to stop him when he's reading. He's like,
38:43
oh my god, you can't say that while you're reading. You're supposed
38:47
to at least pretend to know what's going on. Yeah. They already got
38:51
other podcasts that do the Yeah, the guy didn't know what's happening. Yeah.
38:54
Yeah, So we hide the fact that the guy doesn't know what's happening.
38:59
We do it the exact Yes, we just we just pretend, you
39:02
know, what's I know what's happening? Yeah, because yeah, because I
39:06
tell you to read. I'm like, okay, I just did my part,
39:08
so now you read ahead. You know everybody how the sausages, mate?
39:14
Oh, the only people that like us are listening right now, So
39:17
all right, enough of that. Still you have a y'all need Jesus?
39:22
Of course I have one. Is it ready to go? Of course?
39:24
Because I'm ready. I'm tired. I need to go to bed. So
39:29
well, okay, then you do the yalln ney Jesus on your own and
39:34
I'll go to bed. Okay, this should be fun, people, that
39:37
should be We'll see how this goes. All right, coming to us from
39:42
the New York Post, I'm still here in November eight. I would never
39:45
do this to you, would never have banged to you with whatever nonsense.
39:47
Now it was twenty three. Now Stuart's y'all need Jesus. For the most
39:52
part, I don't know anything about him. And he reads the first thing
39:54
and I'm like, oh my god, I should have really screened this before.
39:58
Why you don't care about I know that, but sometimes they're so disgusting
40:01
or so ridiculous. I'm like, this is this is really lowering our brand?
40:10
Have you listened to our podcast? I know? Okay, okay.
40:15
I caught my man cheating on me through texts as he was proposing to me.
40:22
That's pretty bad. Now, this fella, evidently I had this elaborate
40:27
marriage proposal and he lacked Uh, I know Alwa Stewart can't read. No,
40:37
they the story is just okay. Well this is where you never ladies,
40:40
never trust these. I'll be honest with these. Stud's proposal to me
40:44
was not anything elaborate, if anything. I said, you didn't even ask
40:53
me if I marry you, and he said it was implied. So but
41:02
he as to my far as my knowledge, he has not cheated on me
41:07
into the thirteen years we've been together. So don't always trust the guy who's
41:10
given you all the flattery in the in the over the top stuff. Sometimes
41:17
you just need a basic bitch man that's just gonna wow give you. This
41:22
is gonna propose to you at the Chilies, But stop flying. It wasn't
41:25
at the Chilies. At least it wasn't a better restaurant than that. I
41:29
was out back anyways. Anyway, Tiffany Lynn's stomach was a flutter with butterflies
41:37
as she held her boyfriend CJ's phone in her hands. The head over Heels
41:43
in Love not Floridian New Yorker was recording her sweetie as he voluntarily participated in
41:51
Fear Factor Live, a competition in which daredevil's test their strength in front of
41:55
a live audience at Universal Studios in Orlando, Florida. Oh so they were
42:01
in I decided to do Florida things in Florida. Yes, and this happened
42:06
in July twenty thirteen. I don't know why. The story's just coming out
42:08
now. Midway through the show, he publicly asked Lynn, will you marry
42:13
me? But her giddy excitement was turned to abject devastation when a text message
42:17
suddenly appeared on CJ's phone, reading, fine, go ahead and marry her.
42:23
She's the safe choice for you, followed by a less than flattering critique
42:29
of his most recent sexual performance. Lynn ultimately learned that the author of the
42:35
Shady Missive was a woman whom CJ had been secretly sleeping around with throughout their
42:39
entire two year romance. That's terrible. Yes, that's an idiot. Now
42:47
the best moment of my life turned into the worst moment of my life.
42:52
Lynn, now forty two, a digital marker in Midtown, told the post'
42:58
so what they just uncovered this storys to go talk to her about it?
43:00
I don't know. I guess it made the rounds again. You know how
43:02
some stories just get recirculators. I don't know. I don't know why it's
43:07
just coming out now ten years later. Oh I think I found out hearing
43:14
the story. What it took. It's taken me ten years and about ten
43:16
thousand dollars in therapy to finally be able to talk about it. Oh my
43:20
god, Well, let's not be that dramatic. Jesus Christ. If anything,
43:24
she did you a favor. What this bitch is talking about ten thousand
43:30
dollars and ten years to get over this? Yeah, I mean a two
43:35
year relationship. Frankly, the girl that was cheating on did you a favor
43:38
by texting at that right at that moment exactly? And you don't seem like
43:43
some prize either. If it took you ten years to get over this,
43:45
Good God, I can't even imagine. Yeah, it could be be the
43:51
next guy that ended up with this. Where are you going? Are you
43:52
with what I'm going with? The bogada to get me a? It's a
43:58
bodegasto get me a. It's about daega? Are you that uncivilized? I'm
44:07
telling the story now because I want to help others who might find themselves in
44:10
a similar situation. No one's finding themselves in that similar situation. That's gonna
44:16
take ten years. Forget this. I don't even feel sorry for this woman
44:20
anymore. Ten years and ten thousand dollars to finally talk about a thousand years,
44:25
I don't. It's ridiculous. Unfortunately, the Manhattan It's miserable discovery isn't
44:32
all that uncommon. In fact, she is just one of the many broken
44:37
hearted honeys, including a listers. Shut says Sekira, not Shakira. I
44:43
could have gone and seen her down Dominican reprobably about this one time we were
44:45
in Dominican Republic and Shakira was down the road. And he's never let it
44:50
go. He doesn't even care about Shakira. I wouldn't be going on if
44:54
I didn't care about Sorry, cross wipe your face. Oh my god,
45:01
that's not even true. That was a dry sneat me and long and Chloe
45:07
Kardaskian saying, Okay, I don't care about this, none of them.
45:12
We're we're about to be proposed to, and it's all a text message,
45:15
and that it's been the next ten years of just wallowing in this. Okay,
45:22
I can't even okay, I think we're we're done here. I was
45:24
skimming through the story and it says something about at the dawn of November,
45:30
Catherine and Idaho, mother of twin toddlers, sent jaws to the floor after
45:35
revealing she caught her now ex husband carrying out an affair with her own mother.
45:40
Look, well maybe that's next week. Okay, all right, so
45:44
that's our story. We got a guy who was cheating, bad guy.
45:47
We got some sad, sap woman who can't get over anything for ten years.
45:52
So frankly, they probably should have got married because they seem like they
45:53
deserve each other. That could have made each other miserable. Yes for the
45:57
day, crap on me? Yeah, I mean the headline was great.
46:00
I tell them, why didn't realize she was going to be so sad?
46:05
Yeah? Ridiculous? All right, Well that's our episode before this week,
46:08
Rate review, subscribe Instagram, Facebook, check out our Patreon and buy us
46:16
a coffee and buy me a coffee, Buy me a coffee, And all
46:22
right, I guess that's it for this week. So, man, I
46:25
forgot what I normally say. Uh oh, all right, what do I
46:31
usually say? All right, that's it for this episode. By everyone say
46:38
Bye, Stu. Tell't you know it's bad to be superstious by nothing else,
46:51
it's working, learning sack this worthy both. I can des