Latest / Business Roundtable / You Don’t Have a People Problem — You Have a System Problem | Joel Schwan

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You Don’t Have a People Problem — You Have a System Problem | Joel Schwan · Business Roundtable

0:13
Speaker 1: All right, Well, you don't have a people problem, you
0:17
Speaker 1: have a system problem that's showing up as a people problem.
0:21
Speaker 1: That's what we're going to get in today and unpacked
0:23
Speaker 1: with guest Joel Schwan, founder of schwan Stratify, who's really
0:27
Speaker 1: helping business leaders fix their work force chaos and really
0:32
Speaker 1: one practical process at a time. I'm your host, David
0:35
Speaker 1: Carr of Steward Your Business. I'm really glad to have
0:38
Speaker 1: you here at the Business Roundtable podcast. We've got a
0:42
Speaker 1: great topic we're going to dive into today. I help
0:45
Speaker 1: align people, processes and purposes purpose so that we are
0:49
Speaker 1: actually bringing clarity and confidence and really creating that consistency organization.
0:53
Speaker 1: And that's why I want to have Joel on here
0:55
Speaker 1: today because of what he does in workforce strategy, helping
1:00
Speaker 1: you with both at the enterprise level UH and entrepreneurial world.
1:06
Speaker 1: Working from you you've worked with Joel, I know with
1:09
Speaker 1: Microsoft and Uber and Google, these big companies that really
1:13
Speaker 1: help them streamline and and hi they're hiring, onboarding and
1:17
Speaker 1: retaining their top talent. So I just I want to
1:19
Speaker 1: say thank you for being here Joel and sharing your
1:21
Speaker 1: wisdom with our listeners today.
1:24
Speaker 2: And David, thanks for having me here too.
1:26
Speaker 1: Yes, definitely. Well your journey, your journey really resonates. I
1:31
Speaker 1: feel like with a lot of our listeners, Joel, that
1:33
Speaker 1: they've experienced a shift, you know, that they're they're will
1:37
Speaker 1: they're shifting from reacting to being intentional. And that's what
1:40
Speaker 1: we want to help you have on the on the
1:42
Speaker 1: podcast today, just help them continue that journey of being
1:45
Speaker 1: more intentional. How they're showing up, how they're running their companies,
1:48
Speaker 1: how they're they're they're managing their people the most important.
1:51
Speaker 1: So that's that's my company, steward your business, stewarding your people.
1:56
Speaker 1: So you have, you know, worked with fortune level environments
1:59
Speaker 1: and now you're riding growing businesses. I want to ask you,
2:03
Speaker 1: what was the moment you realized you need to launch
2:05
Speaker 1: schwan Stratify and start to lead differently yourself. Talk a
2:09
Speaker 1: little bit about it, Give a little about your journey
2:11
Speaker 1: as an entrepreneur and founder.
2:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I started schwan Stratifier back in twenty twenty three,
2:19
Speaker 2: right after I had I was laid off myself and
2:23
Speaker 2: I had spent over fifteen years managing teams in retail
2:29
Speaker 2: and then ten years additional working in workforce operations, as
2:32
Speaker 2: HR recruiting and as a continuent workforce consultant, and I
2:38
Speaker 2: kept seeing like the same I was reflecting a lot,
2:41
Speaker 2: you know, after you get laid off, as one tends
2:43
Speaker 2: to do, and I used to see it like a
2:46
Speaker 2: lot of the same patterns everywhere. It's like, you know,
2:48
Speaker 2: companies would spend like months hiring someone great and then
2:52
Speaker 2: lose them in like the first ninety days because the
2:56
Speaker 2: onboarding or communication process was kind of broken. And so
3:00
Speaker 2: that was kind of a turning point for me where
3:02
Speaker 2: you know, I was realizing it wasn't the people that
3:04
Speaker 2: were failing, but it was the process. I think a
3:08
Speaker 2: lot of people now right their job searching or understanding
3:12
Speaker 2: that that process might not be as great as we
3:14
Speaker 2: all thought it was, or maybe more broken than we
3:18
Speaker 2: thought it was, I guess. But most like small medium
3:22
Speaker 2: sized businesses like don't need more people. They what they
3:27
Speaker 2: really need is like a better understanding or a better
3:31
Speaker 2: word clarity. I guess once I started helping owners fix that,
3:36
Speaker 2: you know, that results helping them fix the process, the
3:40
Speaker 2: results kind of came. So I think that's something that
3:43
Speaker 2: a lot of companies kind of need to kind of
3:47
Speaker 2: look at nowadays is like they're they definitely need to
3:50
Speaker 2: look at the process a bit more, but not just
3:53
Speaker 2: in regards of like adding more AI on the things,
3:56
Speaker 2: which I can touch on that later too, but also
4:01
Speaker 2: like you're you're growing, you're growing, and you need your
4:05
Speaker 2: workforce to be there with you, and we shouldn't be
4:07
Speaker 2: looking at things as the automation is a means to
4:10
Speaker 2: like replace the workers, but how to enhance them. Yes,
4:14
Speaker 2: that's where my friend really goes into, is like how
4:17
Speaker 2: do you enhance your workers as you scale with your business?
4:20
Speaker 1: Yeah? Absolutely no, you are not in the same wavelength
4:23
Speaker 1: on that. We've talked about that on previous episodes. Actually, uh,
4:26
Speaker 1: if you guys miss them, we have a couple of
4:27
Speaker 1: different conversations on that specifically in different aspects. But I think,
4:32
Speaker 1: you know, I I love that you're bringing this up.
4:35
Speaker 1: How do we do this? And I think sometimes people
4:37
Speaker 1: are doing things out of like survival and not strategy,
4:41
Speaker 1: And what I hear you saying is, let's look at
4:43
Speaker 1: this strategically. How do we do this and not just
4:46
Speaker 1: kind of just grabbing at things, right, you know, just
4:48
Speaker 1: like oh there's this, there's that. I mean, oh yeah,
4:50
Speaker 1: I will solve the problem. Like, hold on, you guys,
4:52
Speaker 1: you're just this. I love where you come at this
4:55
Speaker 1: as a strategious you know, you're looking at this helping
4:58
Speaker 1: them plan for the future because I know I've worked
5:01
Speaker 1: with a lot of leaders and helping them in this
5:04
Speaker 1: space too, Joel, because they haven't. If they're doing this well,
5:08
Speaker 1: is great, the team will thrive. But if you said
5:09
Speaker 1: you'd otherwise, everybody's really breaking down. And it's like growing
5:15
Speaker 1: people of the problem in and of it is not
5:17
Speaker 1: going to solve it, right, I'm sure they're like they're
5:19
Speaker 1: just adding actually more problems to the situation. You know,
5:26
Speaker 1: you're resolved the other issues that are on there.
5:28
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, It's like you got to ask yourself some
5:31
Speaker 2: serious questions too. It's like, you know a lot of
5:34
Speaker 2: people think like hiring, for example, hiring takes too long
5:37
Speaker 2: and on boarding might be a little inconsistent. That's what
5:41
Speaker 2: they assume is like that, you know, their hiring process
5:45
Speaker 2: obviously is like not as well as you know, ironed
5:49
Speaker 2: out as they think it is. But it's not just
5:51
Speaker 2: one thing either. It's all kind of like a misalignment
5:55
Speaker 2: and a lot of different factors. And that's kind of
5:58
Speaker 2: where like I reckon men businesses kind of like do
6:01
Speaker 2: either do themselves like a self audit for themselves or
6:06
Speaker 2: have someone like nikom and do the audit for them
6:08
Speaker 2: for the workforce and what that basically is sorry, which
6:13
Speaker 2: looks at like five areas, which is like role clarity,
6:17
Speaker 2: workflow mapping, capacity, governance, and metrics. And it's like you
6:22
Speaker 2: know what's being measured, you know, if anything, role clarity
6:27
Speaker 2: as far as like are we even hiring roles for
6:30
Speaker 2: the strategy or and you know, the mapping is like
6:34
Speaker 2: where's the delay? You know, is it hiring is HR
6:37
Speaker 2: is the hiring managers? Is it the approval workflows? Is
6:42
Speaker 2: it just getting the offers out or following up with
6:44
Speaker 2: the candidates? You know where where all the bottlenecks are?
6:48
Speaker 2: And it's usually like a combination of things versus like
6:51
Speaker 2: just one thing. You know, Like.
6:56
Speaker 1: I was gonna ask you to that point. Yeah, when
6:58
Speaker 1: you walk into a business from going to grow, is
7:02
Speaker 1: there one thing that you notice or is it like
7:04
Speaker 1: a combination of things like one is more than the other.
7:07
Speaker 1: I mean I'm just curious, like what is it you
7:08
Speaker 1: typically see?
7:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, usually it's a combination of things. A lot of
7:12
Speaker 2: times it's like a miscommunication between like HR and like
7:16
Speaker 2: the procurement teams. Depending on how big the company is.
7:19
Speaker 2: Sometimes it's just like the owner of the business just
7:22
Speaker 2: trying to be everything, including HR and IT, you know
7:26
Speaker 2: it kind of that can that itself can be a problem,
7:31
Speaker 2: like just not being able to run the business correctly,
7:34
Speaker 2: and so, yeah, it's usually a combination of different things. Uh.
7:38
Speaker 2: Sometimes it comes down to like that they just don't
7:41
Speaker 2: understand this tool that they're using. If they're using a
7:43
Speaker 2: tool sometimes that they're you know, their communication with their
7:49
Speaker 2: employees is a little rough, so they don't quite understand,
7:53
Speaker 2: you know, how they should be translating things for them
7:55
Speaker 2: when it comes to like business decisions and of course,
8:00
Speaker 2: like you know, are the biggest thing I noticed is
8:03
Speaker 2: like just not being able to either train them correctly
8:06
Speaker 2: or provide the right documents for them to learn on
8:08
Speaker 2: their own. And you know, when a new employee, especially
8:12
Speaker 2: for like a smaller sized business, when they're brought on,
8:14
Speaker 2: sometimes they're they're just given like the rundown as far
8:17
Speaker 2: as what we're doing, here's the project I need you
8:20
Speaker 2: on start running with it, instead of like, you know,
8:23
Speaker 2: here's the handbook you know, here's what we're trying to
8:26
Speaker 2: aim to achieve at our company. This is the project
8:30
Speaker 2: that we're working on. And if you have questions, these
8:33
Speaker 2: are the resource links here, you know, if they have
8:36
Speaker 2: a database, or here's the handbook that will explain everything
8:39
Speaker 2: for you. You know, things like that. It's like very
8:42
Speaker 2: simple things that kind of get overlooked very easily, especially
8:44
Speaker 2: in like smaller environments, because they just want to get
8:47
Speaker 2: you know, the owner just want to get things moving along.
8:50
Speaker 2: The project manager probably just wants to get things moving along,
8:53
Speaker 2: and so the whole human aspect of you know, trying
8:56
Speaker 2: to get to know your new hire kind of get
8:58
Speaker 2: falls to the wayside sometimes.
9:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, isn't that It's interesting you say that, Joel, because
9:03
Speaker 1: I think I like to say, you know, this is
9:06
Speaker 1: where your leadership habits show up, if you know, if
9:09
Speaker 1: your business is kind of a mirror of how you lead.
9:11
Speaker 1: So there's the you know, maybe like you said, chaotic
9:14
Speaker 1: not intentional, you're kind of like and I find that
9:17
Speaker 1: this is common in a lot of areas. I was
9:19
Speaker 1: talking to another colleague this morning about like, well, I
9:23
Speaker 1: don't have like you said, I don't have time to
9:25
Speaker 1: strategize like you do. It's quite the opposite. You need
9:28
Speaker 1: more time in strategy because that's going to actually help
9:30
Speaker 1: you at the bottom line and the end of the day.
9:32
Speaker 1: But sometimes there's counter too, like I just got to
9:34
Speaker 1: get the work done. Like you're saying, I got to
9:35
Speaker 1: get this done. I'm like, well, hold on, slow down.
9:37
Speaker 1: Are you doing the right work or is it making
9:39
Speaker 1: it making sense that you're doing I mean, have you
9:42
Speaker 1: ever seen my people get hiring too many people? Like now,
9:45
Speaker 1: I got too many people to do this. I didn't
9:46
Speaker 1: think of the strategy, like how it is going to
9:48
Speaker 1: be the work up, what would the schedule going to
9:50
Speaker 1: look like, you know, the full time part time. You know,
9:54
Speaker 1: these different issues come up Joel where they're like yeah.
9:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it definitely comes up quite often where they're like,
10:01
Speaker 2: you know, either though they think that, for example, they
10:03
Speaker 2: want full time people when in fact they probably could
10:06
Speaker 2: just use a contractor to come on and help out,
10:09
Speaker 2: either hourly or like on a set sow project deliverables,
10:14
Speaker 2: whatever the case is. Because sometimes it's something that could
10:17
Speaker 2: be done very quickly, or if it's getting take it
10:20
Speaker 2: like only like maybe like three to six months or so.
10:24
Speaker 2: I always recommend doing contractors have them come on help
10:28
Speaker 2: them out, either like a W two contractor where they're
10:30
Speaker 2: hourly or it's again be more complicated project. You know,
10:36
Speaker 2: I do recommend statement of works then if there's like
10:39
Speaker 2: specific deliverables that you need, but if it's a short
10:43
Speaker 2: term thing, you know, you don't need a permanent employee
10:45
Speaker 2: to come on and do that because then you know,
10:47
Speaker 2: once a permanent employee comes on, you're kind of stuck
10:49
Speaker 2: with them and so and then that's going to lead
10:51
Speaker 2: to like later problems like layoffs, like oh yeah, an
10:55
Speaker 2: abundance of workers now that we can't affward, right, that's
11:00
Speaker 2: everyone's life miserable at the end of certain quarters. So
11:03
Speaker 2: I always recommend that, you know, you really need to
11:06
Speaker 2: analyze what it is because again it comes down to misalignment.
11:09
Speaker 2: It's like you don't have a clarity on the roles,
11:11
Speaker 2: so you and therefore you don't want to have a
11:13
Speaker 2: good understanding of what the workloads are going to look like,
11:17
Speaker 2: so being able to plan that out and have like
11:20
Speaker 2: an actual route and game plan set up. So it's
11:23
Speaker 2: like example, like you have a product that you're trying
11:26
Speaker 2: to build out, but you know you're not going to
11:28
Speaker 2: need a bunch of people to stay on afterwards. Contractors
11:32
Speaker 2: come on and do that because one they know that
11:34
Speaker 2: they're only going to be there for a short time,
11:36
Speaker 2: so it's not going to come into the shock to
11:37
Speaker 2: them if they're not brought up. And two it's gonna
11:42
Speaker 2: save the money. I mean you're gonna say, you'll probably
11:45
Speaker 2: spend a lot less time bringing on a contractor versus
11:48
Speaker 2: having a permanent employee and then having to worry about
11:50
Speaker 2: the benefits and all that stuff, which right again the costs.
11:54
Speaker 2: So and usually when contractors are brought on, you're engaging
11:57
Speaker 2: with a supplier and that they're the one. You know,
12:01
Speaker 2: a lot of people have a misunderstanding that. You know,
12:03
Speaker 2: contractors actually get their benefits mostly through the supplying supplying agency.
12:08
Speaker 2: So I will say the client company money in the
12:12
Speaker 2: long run. So they bring them up for a short
12:13
Speaker 2: period of time for a project, move them along, and
12:17
Speaker 2: that's going to save them money in the long one.
12:18
Speaker 2: So having a good understanding of the role clarity like
12:21
Speaker 2: I mentioned earlier, you know what we need them for,
12:24
Speaker 2: want capacity and how long do we need them is
12:27
Speaker 2: going to all kind of goes into the whole workforce
12:30
Speaker 2: planning aspect of things.
12:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, that's that's the way you're breaking that down
12:33
Speaker 1: is really powerful, Joel, And I uh i, I so
12:36
Speaker 1: you when you're working with a client, I want to
12:38
Speaker 1: break this down a little bit of the fix is
12:40
Speaker 1: your fix and your audit of them is you're like
12:42
Speaker 1: you're looking at like what is that mix need to
12:45
Speaker 1: be of contractors, part time, full time folks, and you know,
12:51
Speaker 1: and so what would where do you see companies where
12:56
Speaker 1: they struggle with that? And where do you see the
12:58
Speaker 1: companies that can really be positioned well, like so that
13:02
Speaker 1: when you come in Joel, you can really find tuness.
13:04
Speaker 1: So where do how can companies Like I want to
13:07
Speaker 1: have kind of two from if companies are doing things well,
13:10
Speaker 1: like what are they doing so that you're like, okay,
13:12
Speaker 1: I can doll this in very easily. I can help you,
13:15
Speaker 1: you know, figure out what that looks like versus the
13:18
Speaker 1: companies that are not doing it well. I mean obviously
13:20
Speaker 1: maybe there's maybe obvious, but I think it's still I
13:22
Speaker 1: want to contrast, like, so the those that are listening
13:25
Speaker 1: can have a kind of reflect back am I moving
13:28
Speaker 1: in the right direction or am I moving in the
13:29
Speaker 1: wrong direction? Like what does that look like for you, Joel.
13:34
Speaker 2: Companies that are doing it well are the ones that
13:36
Speaker 2: are like doing like a skill alignment. They understand like
13:40
Speaker 2: the percentage of the workforce whose current skills are matching
13:44
Speaker 2: the roles that are required. Either they're doing it on
13:47
Speaker 2: their own or they have outside people like me come
13:49
Speaker 2: in and help them out understand how to do it.
13:51
Speaker 2: My job actually is helping them self sustain themselves because
13:56
Speaker 2: I don't want to actually stick with the company for
13:58
Speaker 2: too long. You know. I come in and I help
13:59
Speaker 2: them get us set up right. Yeah, I'm the teacher.
14:02
Speaker 2: I come in and teach them how to do it,
14:04
Speaker 2: and then I move on to the next client. And
14:08
Speaker 2: so that's kind of what, you know, one of the
14:10
Speaker 2: big things about me compared to others, because a lot
14:12
Speaker 2: of you know, consultants want to kind of keep on
14:14
Speaker 2: their clients as long as they possibly can. I'm really
14:18
Speaker 2: just there to do the dirty work for you and
14:19
Speaker 2: get it figured out. And so the companies that I
14:22
Speaker 2: see at doing the best are like the ones that
14:24
Speaker 2: do the skill assessment or skill alignment. Sorry, but also
14:27
Speaker 2: understand their capacity balance too, like workload versus staffing levels.
14:32
Speaker 2: Neither chronic overtime nor idle time. Yeah, those terms. The
14:38
Speaker 2: ones that aren't doing as well probably are like the
14:42
Speaker 2: ones sinking in the workflow or the work the workloads
14:46
Speaker 2: that there's just too much going on. And then so
14:48
Speaker 2: that you know, like I mentioned before, like for example,
14:51
Speaker 2: like a decision maker of a smaller sized business wearing
14:54
Speaker 2: all the hats, you know, he's hurting himself out. That's
14:58
Speaker 2: where coaches kind of come in to kind of you know,
15:00
Speaker 2: how how do you how do you leave today? Oh,
15:02
Speaker 2: you got delegate stuff. Well, it's hard to delegate stuff
15:05
Speaker 2: when you have no one to delegate stuff too, or
15:09
Speaker 2: everyone that you have to delegate stuff to is already
15:12
Speaker 2: overloaded and they're going to deal with the burnout and
15:15
Speaker 2: so being able to understand the capacity and knowing there
15:20
Speaker 2: needs to be a balance. A lot of companies don't
15:23
Speaker 2: understand that, and that's why a lot of layof kind
15:25
Speaker 2: of happened to especially in larger companies, is that they
15:28
Speaker 2: don't understand the the balance part of things. And so
15:32
Speaker 2: that's a you might have to look into like additional
15:35
Speaker 2: roles or temporary roles like I mentioned, where staff can
15:38
Speaker 2: kind of help each other out to have your mentor
15:41
Speaker 2: programs from the get go would be very helpful that way,
15:45
Speaker 2: like project managers or uh managers of any type of
15:49
Speaker 2: any type of team are actually like able to kind
15:53
Speaker 2: of help out their workers and give a guidance as
15:56
Speaker 2: to here's the resources that we have. Oh, you didn't
15:59
Speaker 2: know we had like a spread cheap thing for this, Oh,
16:01
Speaker 2: it's right over here. You know a lot of things
16:04
Speaker 2: I wish you know, when I joined, when I joined
16:07
Speaker 2: in staffing in the first place, like I wish some
16:09
Speaker 2: of these things are what I map out for that
16:12
Speaker 2: I wish I had had, And so you know, having
16:15
Speaker 2: all that stuff and a lot of companies don't either.
16:18
Speaker 2: They have it and they just think that it's just
16:20
Speaker 2: like in the background and they think that the workers
16:22
Speaker 2: will find it always. It doesn't always work that way.
16:27
Speaker 2: You know, I get tired of trying to look through
16:28
Speaker 2: everyone learn everyone's new database when I'm working with clients.
16:32
Speaker 2: So of course your workers are probably getting tired of
16:34
Speaker 2: work trying to figure out the database themselves. And so
16:37
Speaker 2: that's what you know, teaching managers how to do that
16:40
Speaker 2: and engage with their workers when they're run on, showing
16:43
Speaker 2: them where the stuff is, that's going to help one
16:46
Speaker 2: decrease their their stress levels considerably, especially if there's templates
16:50
Speaker 2: they could be using to make their job easier. And
16:54
Speaker 2: then two, it's like, uh, like I mentioned the worklow capacity,
16:59
Speaker 2: having like temporary will kind of come in and help
17:01
Speaker 2: out at other teams, so cross functional. You know, that's
17:04
Speaker 2: that's actually something that has actually been practiced for like
17:08
Speaker 2: since the nineties, but it's you know, it's becoming more
17:12
Speaker 2: essential now because you know, with all the mass layoffs happening,
17:16
Speaker 2: we're thinking AI or I think the companies are thinking
17:19
Speaker 2: that AI will take off all the heavy stuff. Well,
17:22
Speaker 2: it'll take care of the administrative stuff for sure, Yeah,
17:25
Speaker 2: but when it comes to like human interactions and having
17:28
Speaker 2: to work with clients face to face, you know that
17:31
Speaker 2: that piles up, especially if you're on meeting after meeting,
17:34
Speaker 2: engaging with the client for the company to make sure
17:37
Speaker 2: that they are they're satisfied. You know that that can
17:41
Speaker 2: build up. And so having someone to kind of like
17:43
Speaker 2: come in and take up some of the workload is needed,
17:46
Speaker 2: maybe attend the meetings or take the notes or address
17:49
Speaker 2: the notes that were taken during the meetings to make
17:52
Speaker 2: sure the work is getting done will help out immensely.
17:56
Speaker 2: In my personal opinion, Oh.
17:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, you brought up a number of items. I
18:01
Speaker 1: want to follow up with you on you're talking. As
18:04
Speaker 1: you were talking, what came to mind earlier in the conversation.
18:08
Speaker 1: You were talking about like capacity, and that made me
18:12
Speaker 1: think of for those of the you know the Stephen
18:15
Speaker 1: famous Stephen Covey book The Seven Habits of High Effective People,
18:18
Speaker 1: he talks about the p P slash PC balance like
18:22
Speaker 1: production versus production capability, and like, what you're saying, Joel
18:27
Speaker 1: is like, sometimes we're just pushing so hard on production
18:28
Speaker 1: production production. You're like, but we don't have the capacity
18:32
Speaker 1: that the ability is not there, And I agree with you,
18:34
Speaker 1: the cross functionality is very important. I was curious to ask.
18:38
Speaker 1: So I worked at a very real large engineering from
18:40
Speaker 1: at one point, and like thirty forty thousand plays large.
18:46
Speaker 1: But what I thought was surprising to me was there
18:48
Speaker 1: was not a clear understanding of the workforce and all
18:53
Speaker 1: the different skills and abilities they had. So what happened
18:56
Speaker 1: is then you just would be a local office and
18:59
Speaker 1: we're just going to use these people, and some people
19:01
Speaker 1: would be overly overly utilized or other people are underutilized
19:06
Speaker 1: within the overall company. So there was not a good
19:10
Speaker 1: that visual to say, Okay, what is the workforce that
19:13
Speaker 1: I have out there, number one, and what's how how
19:17
Speaker 1: have we quantified and broken down all the different skills
19:20
Speaker 1: and and and what they can actually do because they
19:23
Speaker 1: might be a primary role, like you said, Joel, and
19:25
Speaker 1: they say, well, right now, we don't have a lot
19:27
Speaker 1: of that work. However, we got a lot of this
19:29
Speaker 1: and I'm looking at your skill set and you know
19:31
Speaker 1: what that that makes the mark that could actually help
19:34
Speaker 1: me here. How do you help businesses kind of get
19:36
Speaker 1: that stuff set up, Joel? Because I think some of
19:38
Speaker 1: them they're just blind to it. I mean they have
19:40
Speaker 1: some idea and somebody if that's been around with the
19:42
Speaker 1: company for a long time, might know this, like oh,
19:44
Speaker 1: I know so and so, you know Joe in this
19:46
Speaker 1: office to totally do that because they've been around, they
19:49
Speaker 1: know that. But if you're not, if you're not fortunate
19:51
Speaker 1: to have that person that knows all these different people,
19:54
Speaker 1: you're kind of like, I don't know, I guess we
19:56
Speaker 1: just hire another person, or do we get a subcontractor
19:58
Speaker 1: or you know what I mean. It's to get messy, right.
20:00
Speaker 2: Chel, Yeah, it definitely it gets very messy personally. What
20:05
Speaker 2: I what I do when I'm working with a client
20:08
Speaker 2: and trying to figure out the problem is when I
20:10
Speaker 2: have a communication with them and I do a work
20:13
Speaker 2: I'll do a workforce audit UH, which covers all the
20:17
Speaker 2: things I mentioned previously. I actually have built a tool
20:20
Speaker 2: which I'm happy to share with any of our listeners
20:23
Speaker 2: they want to learn to see if their organization is
20:26
Speaker 2: workforce healthy or if they need help grow. But what
20:30
Speaker 2: it is like it measures against like those five things
20:33
Speaker 2: I mentioned, But the app itself goes a little bit
20:36
Speaker 2: deeper with the questioning. But first, you know, I kind
20:39
Speaker 2: of apply those same questions when I'm working with clients
20:42
Speaker 2: too directly, when I'm asking their departments as far as
20:46
Speaker 2: like you know, you know who's communicating with who, What
20:49
Speaker 2: technologies are you guys using for example bringing someone on?
20:54
Speaker 2: And then what are you using them for like the
20:56
Speaker 2: hr I S, what are you how are they getting
21:00
Speaker 2: Are they getting their credentials through the hi RIS or
21:03
Speaker 2: are they using a different tool altogether to get their credentials?
21:06
Speaker 2: Is that being emailed? Are they getting welcome emails? It
21:10
Speaker 2: goes down to a huge rabbit hole on a lot
21:12
Speaker 2: of things. But to keep it short and simple for this,
21:15
Speaker 2: you know, I look at what their workflows look like,
21:18
Speaker 2: and then based on the conversations I've had with the
21:21
Speaker 2: different departments, I provide like an assessment at the end
21:26
Speaker 2: to kind of showcase here's what I'm seeing, here's what
21:29
Speaker 2: your current state looks like, and then here's what a
21:31
Speaker 2: future state might look like. That's a little bit better.
21:34
Speaker 2: It's more simplified. And I'm not always been to simplify
21:37
Speaker 2: a process versus try and over complicate it. And a
21:41
Speaker 2: lot of times it's like just one person needs approval
21:44
Speaker 2: from someone else and it goes over to communicate with
21:46
Speaker 2: someone else and then background again. And so sometimes having
21:50
Speaker 2: a go more linear from like one side to the
21:52
Speaker 2: other versus up and down, left and right, I think
21:55
Speaker 2: works out much better as far as a model goes
21:57
Speaker 2: for your hiring and on board and getting people prepared
22:01
Speaker 2: to you know, join your work workforce. Of course, approvals
22:05
Speaker 2: still need to be done, but if you do it
22:07
Speaker 2: in a line versus you know, having to guess or
22:10
Speaker 2: figure out where that approval needs to come from or
22:12
Speaker 2: in certain situations, you know, it kind of boils down
22:16
Speaker 2: to uh. It also boils down to industry too. I
22:19
Speaker 2: should clarify on that too. Sometimes in some industries are
22:22
Speaker 2: a little bit different, like manufacturing versus retail are very opposite,
22:27
Speaker 2: and a lot of things but very similar. Very thing
22:30
Speaker 2: is similar things too, right, so you know, and then
22:34
Speaker 2: the same thing with like the game industry, which I've
22:36
Speaker 2: had experience with working with the X Studios in the past,
22:40
Speaker 2: is that you know, they they are quick to bring
22:42
Speaker 2: on contractors in a lot of ways, but you know,
22:46
Speaker 2: being able to engage with them and also provide the
22:49
Speaker 2: information that they need to get like start the developing
22:51
Speaker 2: of a game, they're a little bit different too. So
22:55
Speaker 2: being able to understand the workforce work passes, like I've
22:58
Speaker 2: mentioned a few times now, and then being able to
23:01
Speaker 2: understand like, you know, how is that all that being distributed?
23:05
Speaker 2: And then also success planning I think is very important too,
23:11
Speaker 2: And I think you kind of mentioned that, you know,
23:13
Speaker 2: I you know, if someone gets leaves, what happens. And
23:18
Speaker 2: a lot of companies don't have that in place, at
23:20
Speaker 2: least not any of the ones I've ever worked at.
23:22
Speaker 2: I mean, there's people that can run as back up
23:24
Speaker 2: for a short time, but there's no one that could
23:27
Speaker 2: be like, okay, are we trading this person to maybe
23:30
Speaker 2: one day help out take fill this role, and then
23:33
Speaker 2: this role will be filling the next role, and so
23:36
Speaker 2: on and so forth. So having a success plan and
23:39
Speaker 2: then actually acting on it is something also I stress
23:42
Speaker 2: to clients to to make sure. It's like, do you
23:44
Speaker 2: have people that can run if you lose a cog
23:48
Speaker 2: in your system here right right? Yeah?
23:53
Speaker 1: That you just think it'll just keep running, right, And
23:55
Speaker 1: I think they're just kind of like, you know, they're
23:58
Speaker 1: not being that, that's being react right. I actually had
24:01
Speaker 1: Joel I mentioned this when we talked previously, but I
24:04
Speaker 1: have a good friend of mine, he's president of a company.
24:05
Speaker 1: He was telling me, you know, I had a great
24:08
Speaker 1: person that had knew all this this particular piece of equipment,
24:12
Speaker 1: and unfortunately he got caught up in one of the
24:16
Speaker 1: ice rays, if you will, or whatever the case. Maybe
24:19
Speaker 1: he's not he has some immigration status issues, let's just
24:22
Speaker 1: put it that way. Whether you know he's I don't
24:24
Speaker 1: know the totals, but this person was the only person
24:27
Speaker 1: trained up on this poduse of equipment, understood it, and
24:29
Speaker 1: the company is now struggling to figure out, like we
24:33
Speaker 1: just can't throw somebody out there tomorrow on this thing.
24:35
Speaker 1: It's going to take time to train somebody. And I
24:37
Speaker 1: think sometimes to your point, Duel, what I found is
24:40
Speaker 1: the companies that are being intentional about this and taking
24:43
Speaker 1: the extra time, like you're saying, and worth your help, saying,
24:46
Speaker 1: you know, you really need to train up somebody. Maybe
24:48
Speaker 1: they're not going to be there tomorrow, but hey, if
24:50
Speaker 1: this person wants to get sick, they want to take
24:52
Speaker 1: a vacation, could they do most of the work, like
24:55
Speaker 1: eighty percent and eighty five percent? Could we get most
24:57
Speaker 1: of the way there? We're not completely like down, you know.
25:00
Speaker 1: So you're seeing you're looking at those things, right Joel.
25:03
Speaker 1: You're looking at those key positions in places in the
25:05
Speaker 1: organization and saying, okay, that's a problem. There's no duplicity here.
25:08
Speaker 1: And that's what I love working with companies like so
25:10
Speaker 1: when you're doing this work. I love working with those
25:12
Speaker 1: kind of business owners that say, Okay, what does it
25:14
Speaker 1: look like to you know, follow what Joel's recommendations are,
25:18
Speaker 1: and how do we develop and mentor these folks and
25:21
Speaker 1: how do I show up as a leader. Because I
25:22
Speaker 1: think this is what I found, Joel, is if I'm
25:25
Speaker 1: not a healthy leader, doesn't matter how great the workforce
25:27
Speaker 1: planning is and all these other things is like, I'm
25:30
Speaker 1: not going to be able to affect it. Nobody's going
25:32
Speaker 1: to follow me. They're not going to learn from me.
25:33
Speaker 1: They're like, screw it. And so then your company is like,
25:36
Speaker 1: you know, we're kind of back at the square one again.
25:38
Speaker 1: So it's like so important to tie these things together.
25:41
Speaker 1: And I know you just do some of this stuff
25:42
Speaker 1: as well, but that's why I want to have them
25:43
Speaker 1: on the podcast because I want to hear people to listen,
25:46
Speaker 1: do this strategy and do this assessment. And by the way,
25:50
Speaker 1: those if you're listening, Joel and May are connected on
25:52
Speaker 1: LinkedIn and we'll put his resources in the show notes,
25:56
Speaker 1: so please follow up there and leave any comments you
25:58
Speaker 1: guys have to comments are questions. We always like your
26:01
Speaker 1: feedback on these episodes. So you know, I think that
26:05
Speaker 1: the work you're doing is so important, y'all.
26:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, And one thing I like to make sure my
26:11
Speaker 2: clients are aware is that I treat workforce planning is
26:15
Speaker 2: like a like an AA meeting. You have. The first
26:22
Speaker 2: step is that you have to admit you have a problem.
26:24
Speaker 2: And so you know it's that because you know I
26:27
Speaker 2: can give you the best plan. Like you mentioned, I
26:29
Speaker 2: can give you the best planning and the best strategies,
26:32
Speaker 2: the best model to work with, but it means absolutely
26:35
Speaker 2: nothing if you're not ready for it or not willing
26:37
Speaker 2: to accept it. And I think that's that's kind of
26:41
Speaker 2: the key thing with that I look for in my
26:42
Speaker 2: clients is that are you ready to do it? I
26:45
Speaker 2: don't harass them with sales pitches. I don't you know,
26:47
Speaker 2: bother them harassing them saying here's my here's my cool
26:51
Speaker 2: thing that I got going on. It's worked for so
26:53
Speaker 2: many other companies. I mean, I mean, I tell them
26:55
Speaker 2: about what I've done, but I also share I also
26:59
Speaker 2: need to know and confirmation from them saying it's like, yeah,
27:02
Speaker 2: I'm we have a problem, this is what we're seeing,
27:05
Speaker 2: and then we only come and help us out. And
27:08
Speaker 2: then that's where I will step up and showcase all
27:11
Speaker 2: the cool things that I've done for others and what
27:14
Speaker 2: they can do what will work best for them. Because
27:16
Speaker 2: it's not one size fits all either. And anyone that
27:19
Speaker 2: tells you that I don't think should be working in
27:21
Speaker 2: work to be honest, right, because there's.
27:24
Speaker 1: So many different there's so many different tools and industries
27:27
Speaker 1: like you said different needs.
27:29
Speaker 2: You know, one thing I really love, well, I think
27:32
Speaker 2: one thing that really I should stress though, is that,
27:35
Speaker 2: and I call it the Constellation design, is that instead
27:37
Speaker 2: of seeing talent as like a pipeline, we have to
27:41
Speaker 2: see it as an ecosystem like employees, staff, dog independent contractors,
27:47
Speaker 2: statement of work, partners, freelancers, et cetera, et cetera, even
27:52
Speaker 2: AI and automation, I mean all where they're all interconnected
27:55
Speaker 2: through skills, data and you know, and they all kind
27:59
Speaker 2: of like function as one. So that is something that
28:03
Speaker 2: I think. It's kind of like this, especially when a
28:05
Speaker 2: lot of companies are kind of leaning more toward like
28:08
Speaker 2: skill based hiring now kind of like following that Constellation
28:13
Speaker 2: design had just talked about and seeing them as more
28:15
Speaker 2: of an ecosystem versus a pipeline. Yeah, I think it's
28:19
Speaker 2: going to help companies a lot down the road.
28:22
Speaker 1: Especially I like I like that constantly you're hitting my
28:25
Speaker 1: biology background, Joel. But that triggered me to think, actually,
28:30
Speaker 1: as you said that, it's what is your ecosystem? What
28:33
Speaker 1: is the culture? What does that look like for you?
28:35
Speaker 1: Because again one five doesn't fit all. If you know
28:39
Speaker 1: one company, you know, and I've seen this go. I'm
28:42
Speaker 1: curious to get your feedback on this. You know, we're
28:44
Speaker 1: in this. I think it's still this. We're five years
28:47
Speaker 1: past COVID now, but we're still I feel like in
28:49
Speaker 1: this interesting time frame where there's like everybody come back
28:52
Speaker 1: to the office or no, we only want to be
28:54
Speaker 1: hybrid or what does this look like? What does this
28:56
Speaker 1: ecosystem look like? You know? And how again? And what's that?
29:01
Speaker 1: What's that culture look like? Because some people want to work,
29:04
Speaker 1: they want to have flexibility, and sometimes there is flexibility,
29:06
Speaker 1: sometimes there isn't. It depends on the industry where do
29:09
Speaker 1: we need to have people? If you're if you're a
29:10
Speaker 1: you know, a retail store, you you've got to have
29:13
Speaker 1: people in the store, you know, you just get I mean,
29:16
Speaker 1: but if you're online only, when maybe that's different, you know,
29:19
Speaker 1: I mean, your support could be different. Can you speak
29:21
Speaker 1: a little bit to that. Are companies thinking about that
29:26
Speaker 1: more strategically or is just kind of happenstance? And I
29:28
Speaker 1: was like, well, I guess we kind of do. This
29:29
Speaker 1: is kind of patched together. What do you what are
29:32
Speaker 1: you seeing? Joel?
29:34
Speaker 2: I say, larger companies are definitely looking at it, looking
29:37
Speaker 2: at that and understanding that they need to act more.
29:41
Speaker 2: Smaller companies medium size are kind of still figuring it
29:44
Speaker 2: out because they're not usually they're not an experience unless
29:48
Speaker 2: the owner comes from like a background of like the
29:50
Speaker 2: larger sized company stuff. But definitely things that need to
29:54
Speaker 2: be addressed that I don't see are really happening across
29:58
Speaker 2: the board or like uh, leadership development. They talk a
30:03
Speaker 2: good game about it and everyone kind of points to
30:05
Speaker 2: like their mission statement a lot, but there's very little
30:08
Speaker 2: like leadership development uh program stuff being built uh for
30:13
Speaker 2: like potential managers, which kind of leads into the whole
30:16
Speaker 2: success planning thing too. It's like, are they success succession ready?
30:20
Speaker 2: You know? Are people being trained? Like the cross functional
30:23
Speaker 2: training and performance enablement? Performance enablement is something I really
30:28
Speaker 2: think needs to be addressed more in companies at least
30:32
Speaker 2: spoken about, yes, because that relates to psychological safety. And
30:39
Speaker 2: now I have a bachelor I'm sorry, I have a
30:41
Speaker 2: master's degree in io psychology, so you know, I'm going
30:47
Speaker 2: backwards in time here. But that's that's something that's always
30:53
Speaker 2: like stuck out to me, is that you performance enablement.
30:56
Speaker 2: We treat like for example, PIPS as a means to
31:00
Speaker 2: like get someone ready to get moved out of the
31:03
Speaker 2: company versus actually trying to teach them stuff. Now, there
31:07
Speaker 2: are some managers at treat pips that the way they're
31:09
Speaker 2: supposed to be treated like actually helping your employees. But
31:13
Speaker 2: a lot of cases and this is more unique to
31:16
Speaker 2: like smaller type companies too, and large and super large
31:19
Speaker 2: ones like Microsoftware, they do a PIP as more of
31:22
Speaker 2: a courtesy, and then it's more to like now they're
31:25
Speaker 2: looking at they're already planning to look for someone else,
31:27
Speaker 2: which is getting costs a company even more money, and
31:30
Speaker 2: I think it's the super wrong way of doing it.
31:32
Speaker 2: So being able to look into performance enablement and provide
31:36
Speaker 2: the tools and processes for employees to succeed, and then
31:39
Speaker 2: manager training to equip those managers to support and coach
31:42
Speaker 2: the new hires effectively kind of like all works together,
31:46
Speaker 2: and then all kind of goes back to the ongoing
31:49
Speaker 2: training stuff too. Of you know, implement micro learning. I
31:54
Speaker 2: also like doing blended learning to where you kind of
31:57
Speaker 2: like teach them different different ways of sorry, different ways
32:01
Speaker 2: of teaching them things, either like you know, in meetings
32:06
Speaker 2: or in like actual interactive modules. And then personal development
32:12
Speaker 2: plans being able to establish those and tailor them to
32:15
Speaker 2: the individuals, and that can help the organization because bottom line,
32:20
Speaker 2: it's all about helping the company. But if you help
32:25
Speaker 2: your individual cogs work better, then those cogs are gonna
32:30
Speaker 2: one day support and move up into more serious roles.
32:36
Speaker 2: One I hope I'm not offending anyone by calling them cogs,
32:38
Speaker 2: but it's the only analogy I can think of right now.
32:41
Speaker 2: But it's you know, being able to grease those wheels
32:44
Speaker 2: and get them moving in a you know, in the
32:47
Speaker 2: way they want them to, which will help them move
32:49
Speaker 2: them up in the in the organization. And granted, you know,
32:53
Speaker 2: loyalty is and is what it used to be, I think,
32:55
Speaker 2: or at least our perception of it, you know, could
32:58
Speaker 2: be loyal what it used to be. But it's like,
33:01
Speaker 2: if you're investing in your employees, even if they leave,
33:03
Speaker 2: they're going to remember you and they're going to recommend
33:06
Speaker 2: people to either buy your products or come work for you,
33:11
Speaker 2: And then that kind of helps you build a pipeline
33:13
Speaker 2: right there by guaranteeing that they have a great experience
33:16
Speaker 2: and they left and they knew more than what they
33:19
Speaker 2: did when before they got there, and you treated them
33:22
Speaker 2: like your own children. Like you know, we all know
33:25
Speaker 2: about the we're our family here. So that's for if
33:28
Speaker 2: you actually mean by those words, then those people are
33:31
Speaker 2: more likely to recommend your products. They're going to keep
33:34
Speaker 2: buying your products because workers are your consumers as well.
33:38
Speaker 2: And then they're going to send people back to you,
33:41
Speaker 2: and especially if they reach your recruiters, reach out to
33:43
Speaker 2: them again and be like, hey, you might be interested
33:46
Speaker 2: in this role, and they'll be like, no, but here's
33:48
Speaker 2: a couple of good people I know, and refer them
33:50
Speaker 2: to you. And I think that I think that right
33:53
Speaker 2: there kind of is like you know, payback and being
33:55
Speaker 2: able to help them out, and so you invest in them,
33:57
Speaker 2: they'll be more likely to invest in you and not
34:01
Speaker 2: to keep talking. But there is a I think I
34:04
Speaker 2: just thought about too. I was on a podcast previously
34:06
Speaker 2: where we were talking about this and the workers actually
34:13
Speaker 2: there was a company, I forget the name of the company,
34:15
Speaker 2: but what they were basically were geting to do like
34:18
Speaker 2: layoffs and they were making announcements about it because they
34:20
Speaker 2: just didn't have the money to sustain the workforce anymore
34:25
Speaker 2: well or they were hitting a low. This is like
34:27
Speaker 2: during COVID time and so they didn't have the budget,
34:30
Speaker 2: but the workers kind of rallied behind the company and
34:35
Speaker 2: were like, we'll take a pay cut. All across the board,
34:38
Speaker 2: they all were willing to take a pay cut. And
34:41
Speaker 2: I think that speaks volumes to the company and what
34:44
Speaker 2: their mission statement was and how the people actually believed
34:48
Speaker 2: in it, and to get workers willing to cut their
34:50
Speaker 2: money during a time where it was like almost impossible
34:54
Speaker 2: to where a lot of places were just kind of
34:56
Speaker 2: like shut down, I think speaks volumes.
35:00
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, absolutely, business. Yeah yeah, I think I remember
35:05
Speaker 1: hearing a similar story along those lines, And I agree
35:10
Speaker 1: with you. We want you, we want I think you
35:12
Speaker 1: and I are both wanting to help, you know, get
35:15
Speaker 1: those folks out of the companies that I call a
35:18
Speaker 1: leadership debt where there's a compound effect of not developing
35:21
Speaker 1: people not developed, delegating effectively avoiding hard conversations. You know,
35:27
Speaker 1: that's where my passionate thwart your business is focusing on
35:31
Speaker 1: those leaders helping them develop themselves. Whether it's the individual
35:34
Speaker 1: themselves oftentimes, or it's within the company. I love to
35:38
Speaker 1: do either way, It just depends on what we're coming
35:40
Speaker 1: at it. But to your point, Joel, your work is
35:43
Speaker 1: going to be so much more effective what you're trying,
35:45
Speaker 1: You're you're doing from workforce scaling and getting it is
35:48
Speaker 1: if you have people like you said earlier, that are
35:50
Speaker 1: in this process of developing themselves. They're in this process
35:54
Speaker 1: of becoming healthier. And this isn't a one time fix.
35:56
Speaker 1: This is an ongoing journey because at least for my
35:59
Speaker 1: capacity of what I'm doing, like you said, the capacity
36:01
Speaker 1: or capability at one point in my career is going
36:03
Speaker 1: to change over time. And so it's not like, oh,
36:08
Speaker 1: this is it. It's like it's ongoing. But I think
36:10
Speaker 1: having a good roadmap what you're saying, Joel, and helping
36:13
Speaker 1: them looking where they're going to have challenges in their workforce,
36:17
Speaker 1: getting these things set up, knowing the ecosystem, knowing the
36:20
Speaker 1: people that have the right skills, making sure that they
36:22
Speaker 1: have an amazing experience when they get on boarded they
36:25
Speaker 1: find the right resource. Like you said, this isn't you know,
36:29
Speaker 1: just it's being intentional on that it's going to pay
36:31
Speaker 1: dividends a long way down the line. And I'm excited
36:36
Speaker 1: for folks to be able to take this estimate and
36:38
Speaker 1: this tool that then you're building this app and other resources.
36:42
Speaker 1: And now we're getting into the podcast, so we'll have
36:44
Speaker 1: to have you come back. But as we've gone and
36:47
Speaker 1: covered a lot of things today and we're going to
36:49
Speaker 1: get too far into AI. But I think you and
36:51
Speaker 1: I both agree AI is a tool, but it's not
36:54
Speaker 1: necessarily a silver bullet, you know, So don't just think, oh,
36:58
Speaker 1: I'm just going to do AI and that's going to
36:59
Speaker 1: solve my problem. You still need people. You still need
37:01
Speaker 1: people like Joel to come and help break down ask
37:05
Speaker 1: you these questions. But if I'm listening, if I'm the
37:09
Speaker 1: business owner or I'm you know, a person in charge
37:13
Speaker 1: of Hey, we're recording this in an early part of
37:17
Speaker 1: November twenty twenty five, like I'm going to be planning
37:19
Speaker 1: for next year, or I got to figure out what
37:21
Speaker 1: the hiring is or I'm going to compensate people, or
37:23
Speaker 1: what does that look like? What should they start doing first?
37:26
Speaker 1: What should they what's what? What? What can they start
37:28
Speaker 1: to be proactive dol in your words, so that they can,
37:32
Speaker 1: you know, be prepared if they're going to maybe come
37:34
Speaker 1: and hire somebody like you meet you, but if you know,
37:37
Speaker 1: they can just be more at least problem aware and
37:40
Speaker 1: then start to make some moves in the right direction.
37:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you know, being able to understand what your
37:49
Speaker 2: your turnover you know you have turnover stability of course,
37:54
Speaker 2: or does it seem like it's taking longer for your
37:57
Speaker 2: new hires to get onboarded? Are you? Are you seeing
38:02
Speaker 2: that a lot of complaints going on inside your uh,
38:06
Speaker 2: your company? I think that's like one of the biggest
38:09
Speaker 2: things too, is being able to understand the communication and
38:12
Speaker 2: conversations that are happening. I don't mean my ghosts, you know,
38:15
Speaker 2: spy on them or send out you know, send us
38:19
Speaker 2: someone undercover, like an undercover boss. But I do think
38:23
Speaker 2: being able to be aware that is your culture. Uh
38:28
Speaker 2: do you feel your culture is psychologically safe? And that's
38:32
Speaker 2: a big That's a big thing that I think a
38:35
Speaker 2: lot of companies kind of overlook because they they assume
38:37
Speaker 2: their culture is hunky dory because they're making money. But
38:41
Speaker 2: just because you're making money and your business is moving
38:44
Speaker 2: doesn't mean your workers are necessarily happy or that they
38:48
Speaker 2: don't think there's things that can be improved. And sometimes
38:51
Speaker 2: you know, some people can be seen as you know,
38:54
Speaker 2: aggressive when they don't mean to be. And I talk
38:57
Speaker 2: about neuro diversion folks that try to bring up very
39:00
Speaker 2: good points, but sometimes they don't they go about it.
39:04
Speaker 2: Uh I would don't say the wrong way, but more
39:06
Speaker 2: too directive a way. And so it's good to keep
39:09
Speaker 2: open minded about how people are communicating to you what
39:13
Speaker 2: they're sharing. And if they are sharing some ideas that
39:15
Speaker 2: even though you may not think they're that great, why
39:17
Speaker 2: don't you make sure you're writing them down and then
39:20
Speaker 2: sharing them with your higher the higher managers up there
39:23
Speaker 2: so that they can decide on it, and then keep
39:27
Speaker 2: that person informed too about their ideas. It's like, you know,
39:31
Speaker 2: maybe they you know it may not you may not
39:33
Speaker 2: feel as it's as valuable, but to them it's the world.
39:36
Speaker 2: And I think that's something that you know, being able
39:39
Speaker 2: to communicate back to them, especially if you're hosting regular
39:43
Speaker 2: uh touch bases with them, to make sure that their
39:46
Speaker 2: ideas are being understood and felt, and that will help
39:51
Speaker 2: you know for sure, if you know, if they're just
39:53
Speaker 2: saying okay all the time, that might be a red
39:55
Speaker 2: flag right there on all members of your team, if
39:58
Speaker 2: they're just not bringing forth ideas. They may have ideas,
40:01
Speaker 2: but they're not willing to do it, so they may
40:02
Speaker 2: not be feel psychologically safe.
40:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's huge.
40:06
Speaker 2: That's a huge thing, and I think that's like the
40:08
Speaker 2: first step to making sure that you're getting the right
40:10
Speaker 2: communication so you know what's going on in your company,
40:13
Speaker 2: but also doing like there's reports that you can do
40:16
Speaker 2: for your metrics to kind of see what if your
40:19
Speaker 2: your turnover rate is skyrocketing. You know, you see like
40:23
Speaker 2: you're spending more money on and bringing people on and
40:26
Speaker 2: getting them trained versus you know, them actually staying. You know,
40:30
Speaker 2: are you is it taking too long defining roles to
40:35
Speaker 2: bee filled? Do you feel like you're canceling roles before
40:38
Speaker 2: actually finding the person who helped with the workload because
40:41
Speaker 2: the project's already completed now, I mean there's a lot
40:44
Speaker 2: of things kind of going to it, but anything that's
40:46
Speaker 2: causing like headaches for people that you know there there
40:51
Speaker 2: are conversations that you can be looking at and there
40:53
Speaker 2: are reports you can be looking at, and both are
40:56
Speaker 2: very important informations to kind of like prepare when you're
40:59
Speaker 2: going into a new quarter two or the beginning of
41:02
Speaker 2: the cycle all over again in January. You know, that's
41:05
Speaker 2: like you you know, being able to know all that
41:07
Speaker 2: stuff and being I think that's how people can prepare
41:11
Speaker 2: and if they're not sure. In general, it's like that again,
41:14
Speaker 2: that's where my little AI assessment thing kind of comes up,
41:17
Speaker 2: where it'll ask some very important questions you may not
41:19
Speaker 2: have thought of, and then it'll let you know if
41:23
Speaker 2: if you follow it all the way through, it'll let
41:24
Speaker 2: you know the results. And to be honest, it gives
41:27
Speaker 2: different results all the time because every answer is a
41:29
Speaker 2: little bit different as it goes into a deep dive
41:33
Speaker 2: in the frameworks. As far as like you know what
41:37
Speaker 2: companies are seeing, so definitely highly recommend if you're not
41:41
Speaker 2: sure about having not if you don't have an HR
41:43
Speaker 2: person that's familiar with workforce planning or workforce audits, then
41:48
Speaker 2: something like that would be a good way to kind
41:49
Speaker 2: of get a good feel for what your company's looking
41:52
Speaker 2: looks like. And then you know, if you feel like
41:55
Speaker 2: you need the extra help, like an outside a pair
41:57
Speaker 2: of eyes to come in and look.
41:58
Speaker 1: At things that where someone like me comes exactly what
42:00
Speaker 1: Joel I want to say, Thank you for being on
42:02
Speaker 1: the podcast. You guys heard it right there. If you're
42:05
Speaker 1: hiring process feels messy or your team keeps cycling through
42:08
Speaker 1: the same frustrations. You definitely want to connect with Joel
42:11
Speaker 1: Schwan Stratify. Will bike sure use all the show notes
42:14
Speaker 1: are in there if you want to continue to build
42:16
Speaker 1: on that what Joel's doing and work on improving the
42:19
Speaker 1: communication and helping your people make sure that these processes work.
42:23
Speaker 1: Of course, reach out to me to it through your business.
42:25
Speaker 1: Joel and I work together. We want to integrate what
42:28
Speaker 1: we're doing to help you holistically and so that you
42:31
Speaker 1: know you have teaming partners, you have people that come
42:34
Speaker 1: alongside you. That's what we have the Whole Business Roundtable
42:37
Speaker 1: podcast so that you're hearing from these experts in the
42:39
Speaker 1: field that really want to help you succeed in your business.
42:42
Speaker 1: Whether you're the boat owner or you're the team lead,
42:45
Speaker 1: we're here for you. We love to have your feedback,
42:48
Speaker 1: your welcomed reviews on YouTube, Spotify, Amazon, whatever the case
43:00
Speaker 1: might be. Thank you for being here. We want you
43:03
Speaker 1: to come back. Thank you Joe for joining us on
43:05
Speaker 1: the podcast. It was a real pleasure having you today.
43:08
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me absolutely. Thanks everybody. Until next time,
43:12
Speaker 1: you will