Latest / The Chuck ToddCast / Alabama: The Making of Nick Saban’s Football Empire (Part 2)

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Alabama: The Making of Nick Saban’s Football Empire (Part 2) · The Chuck ToddCast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to part two of our dynastic series. Here
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: part two of our episode in the History of Alabama football.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Of course, in our last episode we ended just before
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Bear Bryant decided to integrate his team, and he made
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: that decision realizing he was going to bring his program
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: back to the top of college football. That's what he
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: was going to have to do. There have been various
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: myths surrounding this, the moment and moments that made this
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: possible in the state that became synonymous with segregation. Bryant's
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: attempt to sobtly move the perception and fan base towards
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: welcoming black players into the program was either savvy or slow,
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: depending on your point of view. And it's interesting Hal Rains,
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: who in the world that Jai and occupy in journalism,
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: one of the legendary reporters and editors from the New
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: York Times. He did a big series on Alabama and
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: the civil rights movement, and he wrote about Bryant here,
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: And look, Hal Rain's a huge Alabama football fan, So
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: there's no doubt there was probably a little bit of
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: wanting to believe the best possible version of this, and
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: we'll leave it at that. But one thing that was
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: clear in all the different stories about Bryant and when
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Alabama would play integrated teams when they were still a
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: segregated team, is he made it clear that when he
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: played these teams, you play hard and at the end
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: of a whistle, nothing dirty. You help everybody up off
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: the field. Well, in that last national title game, the
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: last time an all white team won the national title,
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: that Alabama team, they played Nebraska, and Bryant spoke to
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: the players, made the same point again and said, you
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: help them up off the field. Super politeness. Well, how
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: Rains would later write about it. This was in Chasing
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: the Bear, and this is what Rains would write. He
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: goes the Alabama player's insistence on helping fallen opponents to
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: their feet bordered on the comic, But the intention was
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: not to milliate or patronize their rivals, Rains rights. It
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: was as everyone in Alabama knew, to show the national
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: sports audience that the state's football team is more civilized
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: than its governor. Alabama played with a kind of desperate politeness.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: If Bryant had refused to confront Wallace, his team had
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: at least shown that Alabamians were capable of civil conduct
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: in a racially charged atmosphere. And so this only adds
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: ja to this complicated history. When it comes to integration
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: in Bear Bryant.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: Well, the cynic would say that was being done to
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: curry favor with the Associated Press voters, right, those sports
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: writers who were voting for the National Championship. By the way,
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: there's one story right of an assistant. They had an
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: assistant coach. They had a black assistant coach or black staffer,
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: and they had him don an Alabama uniform and stand
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: there Bryant, so it looked like they had a black
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: player on the team for people watching on TV.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting. There is some dispute about whether
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: he was in uniform or whether it was whether it
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: was somebody in street clothes next to him. But he
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: wanted to be captured on national television at least not
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: having people think that they were somehow racist or that
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: Bear was racist.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: So in our last episode, we talked about Jim Murray's
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: characterizations of Alabama when he went there in nineteen sixty one. Well,
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: when he went back for the landmark USC Alabama game
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy, he sarcastically decided it was time to
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: welcome Alabama to the United States of America as a
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: full pledge member, now that they had the very least
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: deigned to compete against black players in the state of Alabama.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: It wasn't that he credited the state for making progress
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: on its own, but he saw it was forced upon
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: them by us.
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: He's integrated roster.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: That when the six black players scored touchdowns in that
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: Trojans forty two to twenty one victory, in where he
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: seemed to take glee in writing lines like hatred got
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: shut out, that's the point. Ignorance fumbled on the goal line,
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  Speaker 2: Stupidity never got to the line of scrimmage.
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: The Big Lie got tackled in the end zone.
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  Speaker 2: The Alabama papers, meanwhile, didn't really chronicle the significance of
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: the game in real time, and similar to the way
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: the New York Times underplayed Jackie Robinson's debut for the
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: Brooklyn Dodgers in nineteen forty seven.
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  Speaker 1: But again, I think you know where you sit is
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: your perspective, right, and that game wasn't a clean demarcation
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: point that we like to assign to it.
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: Right.
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  Speaker 1: There's this incredible mythology about the game, and it was
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: Sam Bam Cunningham that made this happen and has noted
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: earlier the Crimson time had already signed a black player
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: before that game, and so it is this was one,
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: it was, this is all parts. So McKay and Bryant
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: come to this agreement. It's pretty clear this is what
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: Bryant is wanting the game to show the folks in Alabama. Right,
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: it is a reason he wanted usc to come to
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: come to Legion Field first.
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: It was McKay that said, okay, then you guys can
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: come out there. And by the way, it's the return
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: trip that has a whole another level of significance to it,
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: which we'll get to here in a minute. But what
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: was interesting at one point again is Brian Bryant invites
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: McKay's coaching staff for a coaching clinic Tuscaloosa, which, of
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: course in college football, this happens all the time. Different
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: coaching staffs visit each other, they sort of share things,
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: especially if they're not going to Usually though, they don't
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: have these coaching clinics together if they're going to actually
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: play each other that season, but in this case they did.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: And what was interesting is McKay tells Brian about a
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: player that they're recruiting out of Mobile, Alabama who had
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: been playing junior college in Arizona. So I think that's
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: how USC got on USC's radar. And it was this
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: blue chip recruit, John Mitchell, of it that who was
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: from Mobile, Alabama. And well, he tells Brian about him,
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: and he goes, I'm recruiting him because I assumed you wouldn't.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: And Brian finds out about him, sees that he's as
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: good as McKay claims he is. He recruits him, he
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: signs with Alabama, and there's a there's an interesting quote
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: in Chasing the Bear. I believe it's Mitchell's mother who's
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: listening to Brian as he's being asked this question, and
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: he goes, he's being asked about having black players on
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: the team, and he says, I don't have any black
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: players on the team, and I don't have any white
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: players on the team. I have football players. And it
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: was this to the mother of Mitchell that mattered a
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: lot when she heard that.
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that seems to me, I always kind of
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: cringe when I hear though I don't see color, I
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: know it's it's it's denying someone you know, their their heritage,
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  Speaker 2: their their history. It's sort of a denial of the
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: issues that Okay, it might be all finding good that
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: you don't see color, but someone out there is going
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: to and it's gonna shape the way that you know,
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: these people's lives or lived. So, you know, it feels
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: a little bit like the uh, you know, the Disney
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: disneyfication is when you go doubt.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: But again, I always say go back. We have to
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: remember what era we were in, right.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: So one thing that's interesting is that it wasn't a challenge.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: You know, given the history in the in the long
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: history of segregation, you might think it would be a
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: challenge to get black players to come to Alabama, and
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: that that really wasn't the case. You had, you know,
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: this pent up desire from you know, generations even or
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: at least in the modern era since since Bear Brian
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: had been there in nineteen fifty eight, of black players
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  Speaker 2: who wanted to play in Alabama. But even going back earlier,
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: you know, there wasn't that resentment like in uh, what
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: was the movie with you know, they based on real
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: life of the I think it was called Invictus right
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: about the South African rugby team and when Nelson Mandela
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: took over, and the rugby team had always kind of
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: been a symbol of symbol of the apartheid state in
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  Speaker 2: South Africa, so black people weren't inclined to root for
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: them to succeed in the Rugby World Cup. And Nelson
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  Speaker 2: Mandela said, hey, we all need to get behind this.
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  Speaker 3: This is South Africa's team.
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  Speaker 2: So you didn't need a Mandela type to encourage black people.
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  Speaker 2: So going back even to one of their early Rose
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: Bowl appearances, like they got a letter of support from
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  Speaker 2: the Tuskegee you know, the players at Teskegu said hey,
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: we're rooting for you, you know, go represent Alabama. Well,
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: so there was a feeling that we're all in this
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: together if you just let us play.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: Well, what's interesting about about what you're saying there is
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: is at this infamous USC game, it's black Alabama fans
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  Speaker 1: cheering for USC that got the attention also reportedly of
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: of Alabama, University of Alabama folks, and bar Bryant, et cetera.
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  Speaker 1: So there was no doubt that black Alabamians wanted in
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  Speaker 1: on the program. It wasn't that they were rooting for
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: USC because they were anti Alabama. They were rooting to
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  Speaker 1: see the success of black players and clearly hoping that
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: the University of Alabama would see it too.
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  Speaker 2: What it would mean, right, So yeah, it wasn't just
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: so clean that oh so this game happened, they decided
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: to get black players, and you know, then it took
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: off again. Really, the more dramatic change before the nineteen
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: seventy one season was the implementation of the wishbone offense. Right,
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  Speaker 2: And it's funny they kept us so secret that some
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: players didn't even know about the offense until training camp
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: opened in the fall. But they put the offense in
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  Speaker 2: and they ruled off an eleven to one record that year,
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: starting with a victory over USC at the LA Coliseum
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: in the return match that McKay and and it agreed to.
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  Speaker 2: And the turnaround was widely credited to this team change.
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  Speaker 1: Look, this is what makes when you think about Bear
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  Speaker 1: Bryant the football coach where he has where you think
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: about Nick Saban the football coach, and you think about
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: Bill Belichick. Right, three are the greatest coaches and they
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: all had similar patterns. They had one theory of the
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: case of how you build a football team, and it works.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: Then they hit a wall and then they realized they've
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: got a change. And you know, Nick Saban famously changed
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: from one style of offense to another, and in this case,
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: this is you know, it's funny. Bear Bryant comes in
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  Speaker 1: in his first year at Alabama. He does what he
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: calls garbage football. He had a pretty good defense at
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: a terrible offense, and he would quick kick on second down.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: He just wanted to pin the opponent's back. And so
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: it was these terrible games they win three to nothing
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: and all this business. And you know then he, you know,
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: would have these dropback passers, right, he had Joe Namath
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: and he had a sort of semi what you would
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: call today a pro style offense. But he was struggling
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: and he goes so if he goes to John McKay
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: to basically help integrate Alabama football, he goes to Daryl Royal,
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: the legendary coach of the University of Texas, to learn
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: the wishbone, and he was so secretive about it. You're right.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: They put up curtains at the practice field. And there's
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: this one little anecdote in one of the books where
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: the reporter from the Tuscalucid paper had gotten win that
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: maybe they're going to have a new offense. They were
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: going to run the wishbone, and so he asked coach
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: Brian about it, and Coach Brian basically says, well, you
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: can do you can write what you want, but you're
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: either on the team or you're not. It was basically like,
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: don't tell the world what we're about to do. And
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: supposedly McKay knew it was coming, thought it was coming.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: But even in war Ja, on the field, they lined
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: up as if they were going to run their traditional
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: pro style and then they come out in the wishbone
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: and eleven and one is the rest is history. By
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: the way, the other part that he changes here on
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: this front two is he changes the type of player
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: he wants to recruit. He wasn't. He actually was more
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: small in speed, was his philosophy in the first sort
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: of half of his Alabama time. It was here where
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: he realized he needed more size, more bigness, if you will,
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: and that story sort of changed in the style of
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: player he was recruiting. And of course, by the latter
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: half of that decade he could get whatever player that
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: he wanted in whether and they were getting all the
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: blue chip players that they could get that by that end.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: But it is interesting the Wishbone transitions to getting him
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: three more titles and really transitions Alabama into the Alabama
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: right in some ways, even though he won three titles before, Alabama,
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: the seventies is the Alabama and.
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: The Bear bron solidifies it, you know.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: And and you know, we're seeing the game and color
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: television now right, which we didn't have at least not
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: widely in the sixties. Right, So I mean that that
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: red jersey really pops, you know, they're the Crimson Tide.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, the set numbers on the helmet. So so
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: it's all coming together, you know. And of course, the
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: the house Tooth hat just becomes iconic. You've got two
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: great hats and sports in the seventies, Tom Landry and
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: Bear Bryant, and they just become known for the hats
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: as much as anything. A game right now, go to
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: a game this year wearing those House Tooth hats, right.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're not they're not wearing what they're not wearing
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: Nick saban Khakis.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: But what's interesting is the latter part of the decade,
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: the defense stands out after that big offensive transition started
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy, including a moment in the nineteen seventy
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: nine Sugar Bowl Penn State the Alabama's trailing Penn State
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: sixty three late in the third quarter. Penn State gets
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: to first and goal on the eighth Then they get
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: into the one yard line and Alabama's defense, designed by
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: Ken Donahue, stops full back Matt Suey and the quarterback
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: sneak attempts on consecutive plays. And the next season, Alabama
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: closes out the decade with a perfect twelve to zero record,
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: cap by twenty four to nine victory over Arkansas, still
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: in the Southwest.
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: Conference, Arkansas in the Sugar Bowl up Arkansas. Yeah.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: And then if you look at their last three Sugar
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: Bowl victories, three straight Sugar Bowl victories from nineteen seventy
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: eight to nineteen eighty, they allowed a total of twenty
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: two points over that stretchnineteen seventy nine season gave him
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: a unanimous national championship after splitting the national championships with
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: Notre Dame in nineteen seventy three and USC in nineteen
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: seventy eight. So really, we're getting the peak of Bear
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: Bryan at that point.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: So it's interesting that goal line stand. You go to Tuscaloosa,
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: it is that it's a Sports Illustrated cover, right, is
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: that it is one of those For a certain Alabama
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: fan of a certain age, they've probably seen a framed
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: picture of that goallide stand, probably more than any other
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: moment in Alabama history.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: You know what's funny, that's kind of my first memory.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: I can't specifically remember that goal line stand, but I
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: remember Alabama playing Penn State in the Sugar Bowl, and
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: maybe all I remember is is Bear Bryant's had. You know,
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: that's right when I'm starting to watch sports.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: This may be revision is history. This may be revision
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: is history. But supposedly Joe Perterno wanted to fake the
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: sneak and thrown to the tight end, and his assistant
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: coaches talk about of it, just say no, run the
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: play one more time, run it up the gut one
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: more time, and it was you know, there's this legendary
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: story that's supposed to the defensive guys in the huddle,
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: they're like, you know, and that one of them yells
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: you better pass because we're basically gonna come and bubble you.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: I don't know how much. This is always one of
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: those no matter how many places you read it, you're like,
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: is this the legend or is this what happened? Nobody knows,
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: because none of us have source material on the field
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: itself or on the sideline in that sense there but
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: supposedly it's one of the great regrets of Paterno. In
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: his gut, you know, his gut told him, don't run
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: it again, play action, the tight end will be open.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: Well he was probably right. But guess what As a
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: Miami fan, I could tell you a dumb play called
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: or run the ball up the middle one more time
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: against pad State nineteen eighty six Fiesta Bowl. Had they
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: thrown the ball, or they throw the ball instead of
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: running the ball. Had they run the ball, they might
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: have won one one more National. But again, get to drink.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: I slipped in another hurricane.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: Io't say gratuitous Miami reference. I think we're even now.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: You know I got my Northwestern's in, you got your
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: Miami's in. I think we can call it call it
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: a draw. So you know, those roles those Sugar bowls represented,
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: you know, the end of the glory days for Bryant.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: You lost two games in each of the next two seasons,
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: four games in nineteen eighty two. Then the announcers retirement.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: As we know, a month later, he was gone from
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: this earth, and that really set Alabama off into a
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: period of uncertainty.
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: And you know, as UCLA had just.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: Discovered with the retirement of John Wooden, there's nothing easy
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: about replacing a legend.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: But I don't think I don't want to leave here
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: so Bryant. When when Alabama said goodbye to Bryant, the
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: procession more than fifty miles. It went literally you had
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: three two to three hundred cars driving from Tuscaloosa to
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: Birmingham for the final resting place. People are lined up
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: on the Inner State Ja to say goodbye to him.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: It was estimated that two hundred and fifty thousand people
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: lined up in person somewhere in Tuscaloosa and in Birmingham
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: at some point. So it would have meant about one
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: in eight of all Alabamians said goodbye to Bear Bryant
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: that day. They treated it like it was saying goodbye
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: to a president at Arlington Cemetery. It was he was.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: He was that beloved and I'll tell you, it's interesting
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: the impact Bear Bryant had that death had on so
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: many other coaches. And we've seen it, right, Jaa, which
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: is you know he once said if he didn't he'd
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: probably croaked if he didn't coach. It was something he
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: had said about five years early year, but he was
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: talking as if he was looking forward to retirement in
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: the last month after he announced he wasn't going to go.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: But sure enough, it turns out he was right about
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: about himself that that you know, once he didn't have football,
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: that that may have been whether that was his will
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: to live. And we saw it happened to Joe Paterno
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: right within months of quitting football, he would leave this earth.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: And you hear this, You people wonder why why do
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: so many of these people hang on?
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: Why do so many of these senators hang on? Why
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: do so many of these football coaches want to hang on?
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: Why won't they walk away? I've always put it back
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: to this moment, ja that Bear Bryant goes from retirement
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: to death in a month, and that so many of
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: these guys fear that happening to them.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: It's the raison detra right, They're the reason for existing,
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: and you take that away, and yeah, what else is
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: there for them? You know, when when you make your
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: work such a central part of your life, you know,
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: and so essential to your life that it can be difficult.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: But before we leave this this period with Bear, there
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: was one little I have to tell you. Of all
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: the facts I've learned about Bear Bryant as we've done
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: this research, if I told you he got plastic surgery,
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: would you believe me?
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: No?
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: So he really did his own He got a player.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: In the last few years. He was tape at a
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: television commercial. One of the producers said, he looked terrible
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: and he was having some health problems at the at
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: the at the at the in the in the last
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: few years in the seventies, he wasn't the assistants were
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: doing the recruiting and he was, as someone said, coaching
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: the coaches. Uh in some in some ways there, but
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: he did. He decided all right, and he had a
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: former player who had become a plastic surgeon. They they
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: said he was going to take a month to go
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: to North Africa. He had never he hadn't been back
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: since he served there in the war. And he basically
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: stayed in a Villa behind the office of the plastic
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: surgeon that gave him a face and necktuck in his
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: last three I mean, I have to tell you, if
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: you would have said is this true or false, I
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: would have immediately said false.
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: But so I was wondering interesting teas that North Africa
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: was going to make another appearance in his podcast, and
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: I would not have guessed in a million years that
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: it would be the location of Bear Bryant's plastic.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: But he didn't actually go to North Africa. That was
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: the story. They told friends and family, Why are you
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: disappearing for a month? Right, Well, he healed, But hey,
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: you know you joked about LA. You know, plastic surgery
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: in LA. It isn't just for Los Angeles, it's Lower Alabama.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: So just like you know, Bar Bryan found football essential,
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: we saw that Bear Bryant had become essential to football
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: at Alabama right in the in the task of replacing
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: him really wouldn't be successfully accomplished for another couple of decades.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: So it fell on Ray Perkins, who of course was
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: a former Bryant player and an NFL head coach. He
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: was the coach of the New York Giants. He'd be
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: replaced by a guy named Bill Parcells. An interesting sliding
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: doors moment there for the history of the New York
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: Giants for what it's worth. But Ray Perkins had to
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: succeed Bear Bryant directly, and one of the first things
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: he did, and it's understandable many a coach when you're
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: replacing somebody an era, you want to just do things differently,
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: whatever the previous regime did. You want to do something well.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: The thing Perkins did that didn't go over well at
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: the beginning and probably didn't leave the best first impression,
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: as he removed one of Bryant's physical fixtures, the infamous
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: practice tower, which eventually would get relocated to the Hall
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: of Fame. He thought he was modernizing the program, he
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: was trying to step out of Bryant's shadow, and yet
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: getting rid of the tower was controversial with fans and
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: former players. Perkins would last only a couple seasons. The
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: minute he had a chance to leave, he left. And
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: then Alabama decides jay A to hire somebody who wasn't
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: a Bear Bryant guy, Bill Curry. Bill Curry actually was
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: very successful. He went twenty six and ten in three years,
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: including a share of the eighty nine SEC title. But
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: he was not a Bear guy. He was considered an outsider.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: He had no Alabama or Bryant coaching tree ties period
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: and Curry, despite being pretty successful, more successful than Perkins,
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: arguably received death threats. And he left for Kentucky. Imagine this,
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: we already said ja Wallace Wade left Alabama for Duke.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: Bill Curry voluntarily left Alabama for Kentucky.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: You know what, It probably felt like a relief to
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: be in the shadow of the basketball team. There's a
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: lot less scrutiny. You can just go to your business.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: It's funny that that, you know. One of the reasons
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: Bear Bryan left Kentucky was he couldn't take being number
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: two to Adolf Rob's basketball program.
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: But Bill Curry welcomed it right.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: Let me let me just go over here in my business,
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: Like Kentucky just goes six and five and people will
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: be happy with that.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: I have to tell you, I'm quick Bill Curry side.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: He was. He was sort of this college football intellect
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: at a time when college football didn't always embrace intellects.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: I don't know how else to put it, but alysfore analytics.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he was a different cat and I enjoyed the
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: I remember, you know, as a commentator he was, but
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: it did feel like he was a fish out of
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: water with the rest of the college football world. You know,
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you ever got a chat. I
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: never met Bill Curry. This was just me as a
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: consumer of Bill Curry, if you will. But you know,
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: he was. He certainly didn't feel like your average football coach.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: I'm still stuck on why the fans were so upset
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: by the the tower. It's not like you're at practice,
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: right It's not like they were going there and see
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: Bear Bryant up in the tower, right, Like, it doesn't
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: affect your enjoyment of Alabama football at all. But I
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: think just the knowledge that this was bar Bryanson, it
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: belonged to him, and now it's gone.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: Look and we're gonna, we're gonna, We're gonna tackle this.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: Actually in our very next episode, our next NFL episode
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: is going to be the Green Bay Packers. And I
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: thought about the Packers as a Packer fan. I've lived this.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: It took thirty years for the Packers to sort of
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: get out from Lombardy's shadow, and it took the franchise
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: twenty years to twenty five years to finally hire a
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: coach that didn't have Vince Lombardi ties. And it was
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: always this, and you know it's interesting, Alabama fans rejected
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: the guy who did have Alabama ties, and then they
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: were mad at the guy that didn't. But ironically it
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: took a non Bear eventually to bring them back to
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: the mountaintop. And Nick Saban that said, we, of course,
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: after the failure of Bill Curry, the school did go
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: back and find themselves a Bear Bryant guy.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Gene Stallings who had the job for seven years
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: nineteen ninety nineteen ninety six, a Bear Bryant player played
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: under him, a survivor of the junkson Boys camp at Texas,
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: A and M. And he got Alabama back to the top,
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: restored them to the Bear Bryant glory days, at least temporarily.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: Nineteen ninety two team went thirteen and Old Chuck and
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: beat who Miami thirty four to thirteen in the Sugar
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: Ball Sorry to bring back these painful memory, Oh and
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: dominant defense. That indelible image of George t running down
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: Lamar Thomas and taking the ball from him.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: That damn play that damn play. I mean, you know,
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: it is sort of you know, for me, it was
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: a little bit of an exclamation point on the Dennis
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: Eriksson era because it's always been very complicated for US
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: Mimi Hurricanes fans. Dennis Erickson has two national titles, Yet
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: you asked Miami Hurricane fans, who are the best coaches?
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: Dennis Erickson's never gonna come one, two, or three because
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: there was a feeling that Ericson left, didn't recruit the
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: best players, didn't have and left you know, basically left
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: national titles on the table, two of them arguably, and
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: there was always this lack of discipline with his teams.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: All of the bad stereotypes that Miami has, I would
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: argue were happened during these Ericson years, even though like
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: Johnson and some others, get get get sort of smeared
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: with it sometimes. So I'm always a little bit you know,
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: in that game in particular, Miami had you know, you
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: can look at it via who made it in the
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: NFL and who didn't. They had the more uh, they
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: had the more talent, But that was a game where
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: basically Alabama was more disciplined, they were more prepared, and
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: they wanted the game more and Miami was sort of,
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: you know, trying to win back to back three out
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: of for you know, they had all sorts of things
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: that were It was a reminder that sort of you
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: can get complacent, and that Miami team was complacent and
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: Alabama that year boy with a hungry and the fact
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: that nothing ever happened after it was something I think
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: a bit of a disappointment for us.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: The great irony was that that Miami team. One thing
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: they did have, that Erickson did have an abundance with speed.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: And you know on that play, Lamar Thomas just takes
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: off and you think he's done.
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: And it's not like he coasts.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: And raises his arm, you know, does a leon let
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: or anything and slows down like no, he just runs
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: him down. And then I've never seen anything like that
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: in football college rope bro He just took the ball
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: from him right, didn't force a fumble, by the way
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: goes by the back of it.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: I talked about if you go into an Alabama super
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: fans house and how many which photos are you going
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: to see on the wall. One of them is the
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: goal line stand. The other one is that picture I
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: believe that was on Sports Illustrated too. I think that
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: was the cover was Tigue ripping the ball from Thomas,
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: And it's the signature moment, right That ninety two defense
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: one of the best in college football history. And Antonio
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: Langham's pick six a SEC Championship win was another signature
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: play that team had. But Antonio Langham kind of shows
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: up in a different way. That's not so good for Alabama, right, No.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: It's right, and this is you know, sort of this
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: was college football in the eighties and nineties, or it
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: seemed like whatever team was good a year later, the
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: NC DOUBAA was investigating. And right, I mean, we could
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: go right down the line, whether it was Nebraska or Miami,
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: whether it was everybody seemed to run into problems with
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: the NC double A. Alabama football entered a very long
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: and turbulent stretch after Stallings. And you brought up Antonio
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: Langham his eligibility case. Did he talk to an agent?
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: Of course, Now every college football player on the planet
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: as an agent, right, So some of these things that
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: we tell you were scandals are now just business as
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: usual in practic Yeah, yeah, but it really sort of derailed.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: It clearly derailed Alabama in the nineties, and then it
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: sort of carried over in the early two thousands. He
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: had more probation, more booster payments and recruiting.
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: There was a.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: Case involving Logan young Albert means NCAA handed down a
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: really harsh penalty five years probation, massive scholarship reductions, and
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: that was a big deal back then in two thousand
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: and two, and they were considered among the most severe
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: penalties you could have short of the death penalty. Look,
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: I remember, you know, being a Miami fan. You know,
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: it was always they were always being compared, you know,
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: different eras to Alabama, and it was you know, so
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: you know, some people took took glory in the fact
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: that Alabama was getting pushed away and pushed aside. And
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: I will confess maybe being one of those fans that
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: was sort of like, yeah, okay, goodbye Alabama, you know,
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: and all those things. But honestly, like every college football
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: fan knows, there, but for the grace of God goes
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: your program, which of course would happen later. But man,
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: they had some terrible luck in coaches. They would hire
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: a good coach from another team, Mike Dubos. He won
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: the ninety nine SCC title, but he had to resign
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: due to scandal. Dennis Francioni, another guy that leaves abruptly
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: because he couldn't take the pressure, goes to Texas A
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: and M, but he also knew sanctions were coming. And
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: then there's of course Mike Price, who never coaches a
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: game for Alabama. I happen to be taping right now
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: from Pensacola, JA. Why is that important Because Pensacola was
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: the site of where Mike Price visited what you might
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: call a gentleman's club, which Missus todcast will point out
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: still exists, and enough Pensacola residents will say, hey, that's
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: where Mike Price got caught. It is literally a place
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: you point at if you know you're with a college
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: football diehard. So he doesn't ever play at it. It
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: brings us to the final coach before Nick Saban, a
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: legendary coach, a former Alabama player, and somebody who was
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: super clean, the son of a legendary coach, Don Shula.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: It was Mike Shula who they have to bring in,
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: and it was if you recall in that coaching surf JA.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: They were just like we need you know, they needed
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: somebody to clean. They weren't looking for the best coach available.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: They were looking for somebody who was clean and seen
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: as sort of above reproach, and Mike Shula certainly had
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: that kind of reputation.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: But clean isn't really what they're looking for, you know.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: I think of, you know, Randy Shannon at Miami. Now
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: it's me making a gratuitous Miami reference, but you know,
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: the Hurricane players had like the highest graduation rate they'd
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: ever had under Randy Shannon, and that wasn't enough from
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: to keep his job, right, because that's that's not the
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: nature of what they're looking for.
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: Right out, We just do it.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: Caleb de Boor's first year was fantastic for academics. Do
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: you think that's what Alabama fans think?
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: No, because asked Mike Schuler, who kept things clean but
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: went six and six and that was it for him.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: I can't let the mic price go without acknowledging even
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: though it's probably not true, you know, just like you
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: know the famous quote with Sam Cunningham, Right, we're gonna
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: print the lection once again, you know, supposedly, uh you know,
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: the tail has it that the dancers that at that
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: Gentleman's Club that your reference were yelling roll time and
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: Mike Price came back with, oh, it's rolling baby. As
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: far as would be to have that happen out in public,
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: it doesn't seem like it's true. There's some accounts that
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: maybe that took place later on. That's another location. I
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: don't want to get into that, but uh, you know,
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: we it more than likely didn't happen at that place.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: But meanwhile, something that was said that was very much
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: on the record, yeah, but didn't hold up very long
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: was when then Miami Dolphins coach Nick Saban was addressing
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: rumors that he was headed to Alabama and he said, quote,
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to be the Alabama coach. A few
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: weeks later, he was the Alabama coach and things began
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: to turn back on the upside where the Alabama Crimson tide.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: So Nick Saban's path to Alabama could have been derailed
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: by two different quarterbacks. One is Tim Tebow. Mike Shula
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: spent his last year obsessively recruiting Tim Tebow. Thought he
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: had Tim Tebow until somehow Urban Meyer convinced Tim Tebow
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: to instead of going to Alabama to go down to Florida.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: Whether that would have saved Mike Shula's time, how quickly
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: would Tebo have gotten on the field, that will never know.
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: But there's one other quarterback that may have prevented Nick
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: Saban from ever stepping foot and Bryan Stenny stadium as
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: the head football coach Ballabama, and it's Drew Brees ja
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: And you'll remember this well. Saban's with the Dolphins. They're
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: looking for their next franchise quarterback. Drew Brees is a
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: free agent. He had been hurt with the Chargers. He
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: had a shoulder injury. They bring him in. Saban wants him.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: Saban believes this is the guy. The training staff of
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: the Dolphins say, Nope, we can't pass his physical. We
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: don't think he's recovered enough from his shoulder surgery. So
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: the training staff tells him he can't. Don't do it.
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: He's not going to pass the physical. They decide to
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: trade for Dante Culpepper the last all of four games.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: Whether that convinces Saban to not listen to overtures from
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: other places, he was having a mediocre year with the Dolphins.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: He clearly wasn't didn't love coaching professional guys. But when
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: you're doing the various and I feel like we have
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: an we have we had sliding doors all over the place.
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: Yes, it's like.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: It is forget sliding, right, we're revolving doors. Uh. The
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: Drew brees what if? And again this is another Miami reference,
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: but a Drew Brees what f Who knows whether that
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: would have kept Nick Saban from wanting to to wanting
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: to wander, But look, uh, I think that you know
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: we could. We're not gonna spend a ton of time
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: on Nick Saban's life before Alabama, but to understand Nick
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: Saban the person and Nick Saban the coach, I actually
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: think this little nugget about his upbringing will tell you
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: everything you need to know. His father, Nick Saban, is
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: a junior. His father was known as Big Nick, and
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: Big Nick ran a service station and a dairy queen,
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: and he also coached a sort of it was a
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: Pop Warner team, but it wasn't Pop Warner by the
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: way some of you may know per se it was
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: back then. It was a basically if some of the
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: local high schools didn't have enough players for football teams,
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: so it was sort of a collection of kids from
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: a variety of local high schools in West Virginia who
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: Big Nick was coaching there. But here's all you need
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: to know about Nick Saban junior. He was raised by
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: a father who made him wash cars the same car twice,
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: not because that car was dirty, but because there were streaks.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: And if the standard wasn't clean, the standard was perfection
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: and no streaks. And if anybody who has coached under
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: Nick Saban, anybody who has played under Nick Saban, now
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: may understand why Nick Saban was such a perfectionist because
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: he was raised by a perfectionist that the job wasn't
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: done unless it was actually done perfectly completely no streaks,
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: if you will. And it really is the beginning of planning,
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: the seed of Nick Saban. Processed guy. Everything about him
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: was process And if you see his coaching Jay sort
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: of coaching, you know he learned from guys with process. Right,
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: he starts under a legendary coach in his own right,
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: Don James at Kent State, and he sort of makes
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: his way and it's with Bill Belichick, of course, famously
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: as Bill Belichick's defensive coordinator with the Cleveland Browns, that
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: the two of them develop a system that arguably to
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: this day NFL teams and college football teams are still
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: borrowing and learning from.
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: But it's interesting though that you tell that backserve his dad,
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: you know, making him finish the job right. But when
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: you look at his career path, right, he's so nomadic.
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: It is a job stays.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: Somewhere right till he got it right.
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: So we'll just go over it. Kent State to Syracuse
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: to West Virginia, Ohio State under Earld Bruce Navy, Michigan
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: State as defensive coordinator, Houston Oilers, Toledo as the head
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: coach for one season, then the Cleveland under Belichick moves
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: up to State in Ohi, Ohio Michigan State head coach
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: for five years, LSU the Dolphins for two seasons, then Alabama.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: So I always wanted to move. One thing I'll say
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: about and I first really became aware of him when
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: he was at Michigan State in my Big Ten I
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: won't mention the name of the Big ten school I attended,
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: but so he came on my radar there. And I
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: will say this, every time he moved up and onward,
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: you thought he would exceed succeed at least in the
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: college jobs. But you never thought it would be that successful.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: He was a clearly established himself as a good coach
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: at Michigan State, so it wasn't surprising that he did
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: well at Louisiana State. But that I think he would
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: be a championship coach at Louisiana State not really, right.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: I thought he'd shown he could win a championship, so
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: I thought he could do it at Alabama. But did
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: I think he'd be the next Bear Bryant at Alabama.
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: No.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: So this ability to live up to his own standard
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: and maybe exceed what the rest of us thought was possible,
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: I think is a defining characteristic.
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: Look, and he was always striving for something. Look the
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: reason he goes from Michigan State to LSU. I think, Look,
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: he's a He's not a Southerner. Okay, West Virginia. I
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: always have to remind this to my friends. West Virginia
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: is not a southern state. In fact, the whole point
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: of West Virginia was not to be a southern state. Ironically,
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: you know, the joke is now West Virginia's more southern
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: than Virginia. But I but I digress, But the point
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: was that's the other podcast exactly. But the point was
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: when you look at his right, where did he go first?
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: Ohio right, Kent State right, and he's in Cleveland. He
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: really is, which of course is fans of our podcast
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: No Right. In many ways football, you know, football was
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: such an important part of the Ohio Valley. Right. It
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: was just you know everything in the Ohio Valley.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: It's with the Pittsburgh Steelers in Cleveland Brown sort of
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: being two of those iconic franchises for a kid like
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: Nick Saban to get to know and all this stuff.
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: And he really was making his way through the Midwest,
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: but it was at Michigan State where he realized there's
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: not enough high school talent to succeed in Michigan and
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: in the Midwest, and he sort of he went south
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: before everybody else did, just a little bit before. There's
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: this incredible map I always like to know. I'll let
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: people visualize it. It's a map of high school football
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: recruiting in nineteen eighty versus twenty ten. And in nineteen
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: eighty almost all the blue chip players were from Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan,
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: you name it right by twenty ten. They're almost all
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: from Georgia, Louisiana, Florida, Texas. And it was just this,
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: just like the population went from north to south. Right,
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: the rise of the Sun Belt has been the rise
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: of high school football recruiting down in the Sun Belt.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: And Nick Saban one of the reasons he left Michigan
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: State he scause he didn't think he could win a
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: national title there and he thought he could win one
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: at LSU.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: I wonder if he had stuck around long enough to
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: see the addition of UCLA and USC to the Big Ten,
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: if that would have changed, because I said for a
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: long time the Big Ten was disadvantaged because it was
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: the only major conference that didn't have a footprint, you know,
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: extend to California, Texas or Florida. Right, those three states
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: in particular, I think had produced so much high school
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: football talent over the years.
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: And I mean he was right.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: But the irony now is that where the last three
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: champions come from, the national champions from the Big Tall.
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: I think, well, you can win a national championship in Indiana.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: We now know well, so I certainly think he could
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: have won win at Michigan State if he had stayed
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: you know throughout the duration.
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: Well, look, I think we've all learned this, which is
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: which is once it became a free market, right then
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: money mattered more than location. But location still, you know,
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: location is still a strong poll because kids, the families
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: of these kids would like to drive to see them,
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: not necessarily fly to see them.
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: But what's interesting is that, you know, in the book
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: We Want Bama, so it looks said the twenty twenty
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: season at Alabama, they talk about how that offense, the
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: eleven players on offense came from eight different states. So
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: something Saban was able to do was to nationalize. You know,
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: the second Heisman Trophy winning quarterback at Alabama came from California,
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: Rice Young. So Saban's ability to not just get the
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: talent that was right around them, which you know, there
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: certainly was plenty of talent in the area, but to
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: get people from Edward, to make Tuscaloosa, Alabama a destination
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: for recruits from around the country, I think maybe his
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: most impressive accomplished.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: But the one thing that we do need to spend
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: a minute or two here on is this the three
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: years that Belichick and Saban coached together in Cleveland because
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: it wasn't just two of the greatest coaches of all
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: time happened to be on the same staff. They developed
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: and it's there that Saban in some ways created his
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: system that he would then eventually bring to Michigan State
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: and LSU. And that system the grading system, and it
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: was Belichick's grading system position by position, the two of
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: them and this was the entire staff, and that by
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: the way you go to it's a legendary staff that
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: Belichick put together over time. When you go back to
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: the number of future NFL head coaches, future college football coaches.
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: You know, whatever you think of Bill Belichick, the person,
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: he knew how to identify good football guys.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: And this just couldn't win football games in Cleveland.
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: Maybe he was just guess what, He's been a lot
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: of being able to win football games in Cleveland.
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: Brother.
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: So the two of them create this position by position
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: system that identified the ideal heightweight, size, speed up for prospects,
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: and you know, it's it's interesting, you know, I do
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: think both coaches are really good at figuring out how
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: to alter their schemes to fit the players that they have.
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: But at the same time, they each believe that there
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: was a prototype that you wanted and in sometimes they
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: went to the prototype, even if they didn't have as
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: many stars, which is why there are so many players
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: in the legend of Saban and include and then Belichick himself.
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: But the two of them, it was together that they
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: created these prototypes in their head. It's how they found
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: their diamonds in the rough. But then they developed these
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: other little things. For instance, since Belichick always believed, if
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: two players were equal, give me the one that was
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: a team captain. One of the things that Saban always
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: believed is if two players were equal, give me the
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: one that was the son of a coach. It's particularly
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: a quarterbacks. He really prioritized finding quarterbacks who were sons
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: of coaches because he thought it gave them a different
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: perspective because he expected his quarterbacks to be essentially extensions
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: of him on the field.
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: You know. But the types that he was looking for
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: throughout right, tall corners, big safeties, big strong linemen. Right,
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: just physical players everywhere, and just that understanding that an
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: Alabama football practice, you know, you were in for something
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: that you perfected it in practice, you know, sort of
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: going back to the old John Wooden philosophy, right that
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: if you get it right, get it right, get it
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: right in practice, then the games are easy. There was
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: that standard at Alabama that he created that was unmatched
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: I think anywhere else.
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: Well. And what's interesting is I mean, you know, look,
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: I was doing this earlier. I mean, the Sabin coaching
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: tree is going to only grow. By the way, if
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: you want a fun little circle of a circle of
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: one of the first people to hire Nick Saban was
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: a guy named Frank Signetti Senior, the father of Nick
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: Saban's first recruiting coordinator at the University of Alabama, a
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: guy named Kirk Signetti. You may now know him as
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: the head football coach of the defending national champions Indiana Hoosiers, who,
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: by the way, on the one hundredth anniversary of Alabama's
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: first Rose Bowl victory, pasted Alabama thirty eight to three
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: in the Rose Bowl on their way to a national title.
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: So it is a reminder of how this coaching world
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: and how much of this stuff is. They all do
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: help each other. It's a fascinating circle and it was
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: interesting to me to see Signetti's at the beginning of
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: Saban's career. Saban then pays it forward with young Signetti
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: on his staff. Who I think. Now a lot of
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: Alabama fans are wondering, Hey, wait a minute, how come
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: Signetti's not the heir apparent to Nick Saban down here
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: in Alabama.
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: I mean, just like what, it was just surprising that
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: people would leave Alabama to go to do the fact
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: that someone would stay at Indiana when they could have
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: had the chance to go to.
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, you and I both know. If he's offered
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: the Alabama job, who says no.
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: I think indianimated just lucrative enough for him to stay.
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: Right, We'll see, we'll stay. That's not done yet. We
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: shall see.
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: But look, now that's the Miami you're coming out. I
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: think another you know, to me, the defining story about
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: Saban was I forget which national champions it was, right,
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: but among his national championships, they win it, and then
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: he's upset because they have this stuff that goes with
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: being the national champion, and he'd rather be out recruiting.
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: It's cutting into his recruiting time. Like, the whole reason
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: you're out there recruiting is so that you can enjoy
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: the spoils of being the national champion. Take a day off,
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: go to Disney World and enjoy yourself, lighting up, smile
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: for one day. And he's miserable because he'd rather be
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: recruiting the right time.
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: So I got a fun little story about that. I
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: in twenty twelve. I believe it's twenty twelve, could be
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: twenty thirteen, so forgive me here. Barrett Robbins is being
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: is one of the guys and Jimmy Johnson are two
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: of the people being inducted into the College Football Hall
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: of Fame. And it's December, so, which means you're in
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: between post SEC Title game, not yet in the National
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: Title Game. And the entire so it was the National
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: Football Foundation Dinner. It takes place in New York City.
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: Tom broke Aw had tickets to it, he didn't want
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: to use them. He said, hey, do you want to go?
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: And missus Todcast and I are both big college football fans,
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: were like yeah, and I said, it's Jimmy Johnson. In fact,
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: this Jimmy Johnson helmet behind me. I won at the auction,
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: the silent auction at the National Football Foundation Dinner, And
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: the running joke ja the entire time was how miserable
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: Nick Saban was sitting there having to not recruit, not
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: prepare for a game. And it was sort of the
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: running gag of everybody who get up there all hoary
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: on stage. Nick Saban's got to go, you know, he was. Look,
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: he was the king of college football then, right, and
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: you could arguably say he's kind of still the king
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: even as he's in emeritis status these days. Right. And
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: so he was sort of the dominant fixture that anybody
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: wanted to talk about. But that was the entire running
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: gag about he always seemed miserable no matter what was happening,
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: because he was not focused on the next thing. He
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: always wanted to be ready for the next time.
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and one thing he wasn't selling you was fun.
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: You know, it was going to be tough. It was
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: going to be challenging and difficult. The saying that everyone
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: adopted that He would be first to tell people Alabama
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: isn't for everyone. If you're not willing to put in
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: this type of work, if you're not willing to sacrifice
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: as much as I sacrifice, this isn't going to be
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: the place for you. You're not going to succeed here,
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: you're not going to be welcome here. Well, look, and
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: there's a question the buy in though that he got
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: from so many great players, because look at the results.
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: You mentioned the stats earlier, the number of Alabama players
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: in the pros currently, that obviously all came up through Sabing.
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: It's interesting, this legendary story. So when he gets the
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: job at LSU, they send a plane to East Lansing
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: for any of the assistants that wanted to come with them.
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: The plane came back empty. And it is an anecdote
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: that is used quite a bit to say that, you know,
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: Saban's hard to work with, or assistants don't love working
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: for Nick Saban. You know, the expectation is, you know,
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: seven am to ten pm, you know minimum. Okay, that's
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: not like working over time, that's the hours. But you know,
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: maybe c at five am and you might be there
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: at midnight. Right now, that anecdote has always been a
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: bit overused. Some argue that no one of his assistants
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: was named the replacement and they wanted to stick by him.
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: But you know it, it's in the in the book
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: I read on Chasing the Bear, nobody says they loved
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: being an assistant coach to Nick Saban. That doesn't mean
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: they didn't learn a ton from Nick Saban. That doesn't
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: mean they didn't get a lot out, but it is
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: true that you don't have anybody that you could immediately
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: say is coach X who's been at Nick Saban's side
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: for over a decade. That is something you don't here
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: very often.
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: The flip side, though, is how he's been away station
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: in some ways and provided coaching rehab, reputational rehab for
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: guys like Lane Kiffin or Steve Sarkisian who were maybe
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: on the outs and then Kip Saban brings them in
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: on their staff. Maybe they helped the team do a
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: national championship and now they're they're they're good again, you know.
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: I mean look at sark at Texas, Kiffen, you know
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: now at LSU by way of Ole Miss. So they
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: didn't stay for a long time, but that's because what
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: Saban did worked for them, right. He was able to
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: rehabilitate their image, show that hey, this guy still has
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: something to contribute and he'd make a good hire for
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: you at these major programs, look SEC programs.
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: A University of Miami head coach Mario Cristobal gets fired
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: from FIU, becomes an offensive line coach and head, one
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: of the chief recruiters for Alabama. He's one of those
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: rehab guys. Then he ends up coach of Oregon. Now
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: you know, he's in a national title game. By the way,
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: it was the first time that two former assistants were
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: in a national title game of Saban's and neither one
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: of them was named Kirby Smart. But the point being
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: is that you're right, I mean, Crystaball is one of them.
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: There's quite Lane Kiffin's another where where time with Saban
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: essentially made people rethink what they thought about those coaches
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: and they got a second chance at big time programs.
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: The Lane Kiffen story is a good one. And then
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: we ought to link here for a second because when
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: Saban first reaches out to the Lane kiff and nobody
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: can believe you're like the most disciplined coach that anybody
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: thought existed on the earth, and the most undisciplined coach
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: fired out a tarmac famously at USC right is and
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: yet they get together and guess there are two instances
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: that convince Saban he's got a change his offensive philosophy.
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: One was the infamous kick six game, and that's one
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: of those games. Do you remember where you're at when
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: that happened.
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: I was standing outside in Las Vegas, at like a
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: mall in Las Vegas. I don't know what I was
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: doing outside, but I'm watching through the window on the TV,
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: and that's how I saw the play.
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: That's a great anecdote. Look my son, my son who's
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: now nineteen, will tell you, he says, in his head,
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: the first real college football memory he has as that play,
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: because what he remembers is how crazy I and my
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: wife got just what we're like, wait, wait what? What?
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: It was? Right? The most unbelievable ending to a game.
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: And it wasn't just any game, and it didn't just
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: it wasn't just I mean, Auburn would go into the
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: national title game because of this, but what happened, it
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: was what happened. So to take you back into that game,
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: and I'm sorry to you Alabama fans that were making
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: you live to live in this a minute. But without it,
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: Nick Saban doesn't win more national titles because it's in
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: that game Alabama's leading twenty eight twenty one. Nick Marshall's
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: the quarterback. The tying touchdown is an RPO and it's
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: an RPO that Saban swears should have had a penalty called,
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: That there are way too many offensive linemen down the
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: field blocking already, that he marshalls shouldn't have been able,
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: that that penalty should have been flagged. But college football
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: was transitioning that same year, I believe is I think
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: he lost to Johnny Manziel that year. It was the
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: one loss that they had going into that game, and
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: he realized that there were two things. He didn't have
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: the speed to keep up with these running quarterbacks, and
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: he didn't have the speed to keep up with these RPOs.
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: And more importantly, he says, if this is how the
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: game's going to be called. You remember at first he
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: was complaining about it, that hey, we need to slow
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: the game down. And then he said, all right, fine,
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: and he brings in Lane Kiffen and they transform into
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: the modern offenses were used to.
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: Today and adjustin the defense where you know, the dual
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: threat quarterbacks had been such a.
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: Well, he changed his philosophy on the side. So it
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: used to be he wanted those big safeties. Then he said,
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: you know what, We're going to take the big safeties
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: and turn them into linebackers, and we're going to take
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: those big linebackers and turn them into defensive ends because
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: he wanted more speed everywhere.
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: And sometimes small adjustments, sometimes technological adjustments. His staff convinced him, Hey,
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: we should get Apple watches for the players. We can
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: track their sleep, and he was all for it. So
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: just a little thing like that, taking advantage of the technology,
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: staying current, right, what are all the little ways that
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: we can give our players in our team at h
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: and Saban has been willing to do that. I wish
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: he could do it with a more pleasant demeanor. Maybe
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: that's asking too much, but the sports, it absolutely is.
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: The attempts to control the media. I'm still still mad
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: at him that time he snapped at Maria Taylor live
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: on air when she asked a perfectly legitimate question. He
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: did apologize to her, you know, to her defense, and
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: I wonder if he's having second thoughts now that he's
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: a member of the media.
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: Our mutual friend, mister Kroneizer absolutely judges people on how
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: coaches treat the media. And if like he hates Belichick
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: because of how dismissive he is to the press. You know,
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: it really is, do you are you that same way
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: that you know that you just no matter.
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: How especially if I don't know them.
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: Right, no matter how good they are, that you just like, really,
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: you don't. You're so arrogant that you don't understand how
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: important the fan base is. And guess how the fan
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: base finds out what you're doing.
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: It's through us, right, and especially when it's a choice. So,
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: you know, the most surprising thing that some people would
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: be how tight Charles Barkley and Bill Belichick are, you know,
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: and Charles is one of the most wonderful people I've
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: ever come across. I wouldn't say the same for Belichick,
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: but Charles Barkley vouches for him, and so there must
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: be something there that Charles can connect with, which means
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: that it's all very intentional that side a Belichick And
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: I know that for a fact from other sports writers
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: who and we've seen it. Right, if you ask him
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: a good football related question, a technical Remember that time
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: he went on that long soliloquy about the long snappers. Yeah,
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: because that's what he cares to talk about. So yes,
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: there's something to be said about asking the questions that
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: he needs to talk about. But at your job sometimes
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: is to ask, you know, we need to know the
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: status of the left tackle's need right, and we need
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: to your fans want to know why you made that
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: tactical decision on fourth down, for example, And those are
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: the moments when it's something we need to know that's
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: a perfect legitimate query that he'll just shut stuff down.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: I think one other thing about Saban that I you know,
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: there's this feeling that Saban wants to just overwhelm you.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: His teams will overwhelm you just be being better prepared,
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: better skilled, better everything. And you don't think of him
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: as panicking or you don't think of him as trying
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: to sort of trick play. But just like Bear Bryant
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: did quick kicks his first year at Alabama in order
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: to just make it harder for the other team to
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: get good field position, I think Saban's finest coaching moment
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: is it's sort of a two It's it's sort of
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: a two parter. It's the decision to bench Jalen Hurts
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: in a title game, bring in to Us. He convinces
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: Jalen Hurts to stay one more year, and thank goodness
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: he does, because to it gets hurt and Jalen has
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: to come and finish up the season, and it is
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: it is, and you know, look, I think it says
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: a lot about who Jalen Hurts is. I think it
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: says a lot about Nick Saban. It's just an interesting
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: I think it's one of those that that it's a microcosm,
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: but it shows you that that he somehow convinced all
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: of his players team first, all the time. Uh, and
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: they would buy into it.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, having the recruited the caliber person like Jalen Hurts,
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: that that wouldn't torpedo the team by pouting on the
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: sidelines rather than rooting on his replacement. But yeah, I
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: was going to get to that decision. One of the
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: more notable coaching decisions we've seen on the big stage
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: a long time.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 3: I think of that.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: I think of the decision to go for the Philly
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: Special and that that Eagles, ye Patriots super Bowl. But
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: how many coaches would do that with bench the starting
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: quarterback who had gotten you to that point and go
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: with the freshman.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: And in both cases he was right.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: I would paid off. He was, you know, absolutely right.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: And that's you know, I think about what sets apart
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: good coaches from great coaches, and what sets apart great
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: coaches from the Alzheimer's and good coaches, you know, can
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: develop a system. Great coaches maybe can perfect their system.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: The best coaches change their system for the players that
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: they have the where things are going. And that to
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: me is what right? Like, how is it that Briant
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: and Saban have as many titles as they do and
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: nobody else is that close? And you look at their
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: careers and it actually is they were always willing to change.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: And look, you and I are in our fifties, right,
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: You and I have had these careers. It is the
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: older you get, the harder it is to admit that
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: you have to change, whether you have to go on
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: a new platform, whether you have to change your offense,
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: whether you have to change who you recruit. And I mean,
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: to me, that's the lesson of Alabama football. The most
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: the two biggest, most successful periods were led by men
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: who constantly realized they had to change in order to
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: keep succeeding.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: So I think the key is can you have a
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: counter move? And I'm thinking of an interview I did
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: with Kareem Abdul Jabbar one time and the subject was
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: the skyhook, but he talked about the need to develop
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: a play to go to your left hand when teams
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: were going to deny you the ability to go and
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: shoot that skyhook with the right could you develop that
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: counter move right? So the best coaches, I think it's
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: this same philosophy. Do you have a counter move? Can
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: you counter? Can you react? Do you have a plan B?
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: When what you had in store or with the way
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: that you were doing things no longer works, or if
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: somebody has come up with an answer for what you're doing,
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: can you have a counter move or a plan B?
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: And clearly Nick Saban had that which enabled him to
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: be so successful. One last thing I want to add
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: on him is I do appreciate the fact that he
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: could poke fund at himself in some of those commercials,
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: and maybe most remarkable, especially given the Alabama fan base,
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: the fact that he was willing to don the LSU
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: gear in The blind Side to make it historically accurate,
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: because he was at LSU when he was recruiting the kid,
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: and so he went back, you know, even though he
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: was coaching Alabama, he wore LSU gear for the movie
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: The blind Side. I always appreciated it. I wantedn't have
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: to do.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: All right, let me give me I want to give
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: one more set of flowers to the save in here.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: In the most recent college football Playoff, five of the
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: twelve teams were led by SABAN assistants that were head
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: coaches Indiana, Georgia, Miami, Oregon, and Ole mess And the
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: likelihood that it'll be at least five probably in the
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: next one is greater than you have. And if you're
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: keeping score right, we know Signette's got a title. We
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: know that Kirby Smart's got a couple of titles. So
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: if you want to know that the race between Saban
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: assistants getting national titles and Bryant assistants getting national titles
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: now is right now. Bryant has four assistants who went
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: on to win national titles, obviously Gene Stallings, my man,
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: Howard Snellenberger because you know, I have to have one
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: more Miami reference in here, Danny Ford for Clemson, and
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: then Paul Dietzel. It is what he won it the
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: same year Brian arrived at at Alabama. So it's a
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: it's technically counts, but I do think right now Saban's
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: got three Jimbo Fisher, Kirby Smart, and Kirk Signetti. But hey,
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: I can always hope that Mario Chrystobol becomes number four.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: Well, I think this really epitomizes the proper usage of legacy. Right,
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: Legacy is what you leave behind and the state and
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: leaving things in particular better than when you got there.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: We can say that Bear Bryant did that for Alabama,
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: we can say that Nick Saban did that for Alabama,
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: and as a result, it's one of, if not the
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: pre eminent college football program.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: Well, look, you got Klein de Borr. I mean this
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: is we've seen this, right, is he Ray Perkins or
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: can he be his own man? And it is? It
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: is not easy. We've seen struggles to follow. You talked
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: about Dean Smith. That's been hard for North Carolina. UCLA
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: has been trying to re place John Wood in my
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: entire adult life, right, it is. It is something that
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: can really derail a program sometimes when you've had as
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: much success. And it's going to be fascinating to watch
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: how much patience will Alabama fans have And what does
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: you know it? What does success? What should the expectations
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: be in this new world that we live in it
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: that is college football?
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: Well, we know what the standards are, right, the expectations
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: might not be realistic, but the standards have been set.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: And again Alabama two of the greatest coaches ever and
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: two coaches who got to do things and exit on
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: their own terms. And that's exceptionally rare to have one,
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: let alone too. So now it's time for our Mount
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: Rushmore segment.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 3: Chack, who do you have?
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: Man? I think this is about as difficult as you
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: can come up with. So and as you know, I'm
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: always wanting to do multiple We're halfway there, right yeah,
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: because there you can't like there's you. You couldn't do
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: this without putting both Bright and Saban on.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: There, right right, So it's only a matter too And.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: The question is do you even pick any players?
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 3: You only do coaches?
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: I mean, well, I president the president with Denny, right,
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: you know you could you could.
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: Make these names on the stadium you're going to put.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: I'm just saying, you know, you could argue this. University
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: of Alabama's already decided that Denny belongs on the Mount
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: Rushmore because they it's not like they replaced his name
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: on the stadium, right they made sure to keep it
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: when they added the hyphen on there. But Alabama's most
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: famous recruit to this day is still Joe Namath, right,
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: So I think that the three of us, that those three,
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: it's it's hard not to talk about Namouth because it
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: was important that a guy from the North was willing
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: to go down to Alabama. I don't think people fully appreciate.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: You know, the joke was name it didn't even know
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: where's Alabama? Like he didn't even really know, didn't really
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: quite grasp it. It wasn't like Alabama football was on
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: TV every week in beaver Falls, Pennsylvania in the early sixties.
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: So and when he got down there, someone it might
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: have been Brian himself said, Nama didn't know how to
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: speak the language there. You know, it was pretty difficult,
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 2: but he thrived, and you know, he certainly is one
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: of the beloved people to be yeah, to wear the crimp.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: Look, I love I love your pick here of your
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: fourth of your fourth.
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: So my mine was I'll say it was it was
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: Ozzie Newsome off and overlooked and maybe not so much
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: for his accomplishments at at Alabama, but what he went
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: on to become, and that was a Hall of fame
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: tight end in uh in Cleveland, UH speaking, going back
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: to Cleveland and then an all time great executive you
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: general manager, especially with the Baltimore Ravens putting together Super
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: Bowl teams there.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 3: So, uh it would.
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: You compare him? Would you? Is?
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 3: Is?
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: Is? Is Ozzie Newsome's closest, uh comparison Jerry West?
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: I mean maybe not the the heights as the player,
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: but the fact that that he was successful in both regards.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: Similar Yeah, Larry Bird is another one. If you want
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: to talk about people have been successful as a player
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: and as executive.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: Well, it's a It's a good one because in some
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: ways it's it's look, I think it's possible that Derrick
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: Henry is one of the greatest just pure football players
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: you and I have ever witnessed, you know, perhaps not
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: since Jim Brown, you know, type of dominant and he was,
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: you know, obviously a Heisman Trophy winner. It's I know
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: that Henry's accomplishments in some ways are bigger than Alabama.
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: Right his high school career is it looks like it
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: looks like a grown man playing with little kids.
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: Those high schools more ridiculous than the high school football.
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: The only thing more ridiculous is Andy Reid's twelve year
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: old twelve year old Andy Reid at punt.
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 2: Pass and kicks right.
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: But the Henry like dominance, I mean, his his high
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: school statistics are alien. They're so crazier, like this can't
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: be right type of thing. So that would be by
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: And I wonder if ten years from now Derrick Henry
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: hall of Famer by then, Derrick Henry maybe one more
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: Super Bowl time, maybe gets a Super Bowl title with
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: the Ravens at some point here right, that that we
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: might consider consider Henry there on that front. Just just
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: the thought he.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: Came to mind for me. So are you putting him
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: there or not?
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: No, I'm with you on Ozzie Newsom. I think that's right.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: But it is weird that we don't have one Saban player, right,
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: And if you were gonna do one, I think I
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: probably go.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 2: Henry or a defensive player for Saban. That was that
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: was one of the thoughts when I was thinking of
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: my list. It was like, Okay, yeah, do we need
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: like a Saban defensive player to represent what he meant
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: for that for the school, for an outside of that side.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 3: Of the ball.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: But Newsom is so unique to have someone like that
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: associated with your.
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: No, it's a. I think, as much as I want to,
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: we should disagree, you know, because hey, that's what you're
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: supposed to do, and some set up like this, that's
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: an inspired pick and and I can't, I can't make
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: a good case against it.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: So you're gonna draft on it.
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: But here's what we want to hear from. We would
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: love to hear from you. Send us your Mount Rushmore's
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: without Brian and Saban under your old player only Mount Rushmore's.
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: That would be fun to hear from our our our
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: you know, whether you want to throw it in our
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: YouTube comments or or shoot us a note. We'd love
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: to see who you would put up as your four horsemen,
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: if you will. On Mount Rushmore that was on the.
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: Field, although you are threw Alabama fans, you know, because.
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: Don h You might put Don Hudson there, right, you
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: might put you might put a you know, name it Hudson,
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: Henry Newsome. That's pretty good Forceome right there. Huh Stabler, Yeah,
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: my man bart Starr. But the problem with stars his
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: best days weren't in Alabama. A reminder, please follow us
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: on social media as well and drop us those those
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: Mount Rushmore's at Dynastic Pod follow like, review wherever you
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: listen to your podcasts, and of course like and subscribe
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: on our YouTube channel. One of the best things about
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: doing this podcast is the books is the research. This
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: is what we love. We get to read as we're
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: doing the research for each episode, and there's no shortage
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: of just terrific books on the rich history of Alabama football.
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: So here are the books we read for this episode,
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: which means we recommend him to you. Right. There's always Alabama.
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: A History of Crimson Tied Football by Don Wade, Crimson
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: Action by Eli Gold, We Want Bama. A Season of
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: Hope and the Making of Nick Saban's Ultimate Team by
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: Joe Goodman, The Junction Boys, How Ten Days in Hell
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: with Bear Bryant Forged a Championship team by Jim Depp,
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: Turning of the Tide, How One Game Changed the South
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: by Don Yeager, Sam with Sam Cunningham and John Papadaccas.
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: Chasing the Bear, How Bear Bryant Nick Saban made Alabama
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: the greatest college football program of all time by Lars
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: Anderson and then Saban. The Making of a Coach by
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: Monty Burke.
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 2: And before we say goodbye, we want to thank Steve
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 2: Hole our partner and executive producer, Andrew Samson, the head
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: of Programming and our partner, our production partner, show Boat Media,
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 2: Kevin Kennedy, our producer, Meredith vo Oli, our researcher. Thank
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 2: you for listening to and watching Dynastic. We'll see you
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: next time when we interview a leading figure from the
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: Crimson Tides history Roll Tide