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Indie Games and Adventure Time with tenlung · Rock For Initiative

0:07
Hello and welcome to another episode of Rock 4 Initiative.
0:10
My name is Phil and I'm your host.
0:13
I'm here to talk video games with Barry from 10 Lung.
0:17
If you have not heard of 10 Lung yet, you guys are in for a huge
0:22
treat. Barry is an amazing individual,
0:25
loved hearing her story, loved talking to her about video
0:30
games, about Adventure Time, and really, really excited for her
0:36
album which drops tomorrow. If you're listening to this on
0:39
release day, September 25th, it's called I Follow Birds and
0:43
it is phenomenal. I cannot wait for you guys to
0:47
hear it. Please make sure you check it
0:49
out. Barry is an amazing musician,
0:54
very fun, very personable, a great, great interview.
0:58
So really excited for you to hear all of that coming up in
1:01
just a minute here. Before that, I want to remind
1:05
you that Rockford Initiative is part of Never a Phase Network.
1:09
Never a Phase Network, of course, is your spot for
1:12
anything emo, punk rock, hardcore, ska, anything
1:18
alternative really. We've got news, reviews,
1:23
features. We have a bunch of other
1:26
podcasts for you. Listen to you.
1:28
Check out the Never Phase podcast, the Wasting Time
1:31
podcast, who are at 4 chord this weekend doing media, and you
1:36
should definitely check them out on your social media feeds if
1:39
you can. We've also got the certified
1:42
Fangirls podcast, the Ska Mailman podcast if you're into
1:46
the ska, and the Imperfect Ads podcast, and of course, Track
1:51
Marks, which is our newest podcast with Foos and Ducky
1:57
talking to some really great bands.
1:58
They just had an episode released with cricket teeth.
2:02
They had an episode with glimmers, so make sure you check
2:04
them out as well. Back to Barry, of course.
2:07
Go follow Ted Longs on social media.
2:11
Go check out I follow birds tomorrow when it drops.
2:15
And yeah, I'm I'm not going to take a ball more time because we
2:19
got a lot of video games stuck about juicy, juicy video games.
2:22
So enjoy the interview. What?
2:37
All right, I am here with Barry today from 10 lung of 10 lung,
2:41
the 10 lung the only of 10 lung, Yeah.
2:44
Yeah, yeah, I think so. Maybe for now, I don't know.
2:48
For now, yeah. Yeah.
2:50
Well, I'm really excited to have you on today.
2:53
Excited to talk to you about indie games, Twitch streaming,
2:58
Adventure Time, anything else, whatever, whatever goes.
3:02
Yeah. So let's let's start there.
3:06
I did. I found your Twitch stream, I
3:08
think like right before the show.
3:10
I it was I looked on Twitch, I searched 10 lung and you came
3:16
up. So yeah.
3:17
But I think I, it's not my like main creative focus.
3:20
So I changed, I think I just changed my bio to just be like
3:23
go listen to my music. So that might be, that's crazy
3:28
though that that came up. That's funny.
3:30
It's it, it came up. How did you get started Twitch
3:34
streaming? Was there a, a catalyst for that
3:37
or you just jumped in there? Oh, man, we could get really
3:40
personal. Yeah, I was in a phase of life
3:45
that was like where I needed a new outlet, I guess, to put it
3:49
like shortly. And I'd always been a really big
3:51
fan of video games and wanted to do something creative.
3:55
And, you know, that's both of those things.
3:59
And it was almost like therapeutic in a sense, I guess.
4:02
And and so originally when I started, it was like a faceless
4:08
character that was like this. It's like technically AV tuber,
4:13
but not like an anime thing at all.
4:15
Like it would more like think like avant-garde Adult Swim
4:20
thing. And you know, as a if I like
4:25
were to take the phases through my life and like talk it all
4:28
out. It's very poetic where it's like
4:30
I started my Internet presence like 8 years ago as this, like
4:33
hiding behind a mask and then over the years have unpeeled it
4:38
and come out as trans and like, you know, then stepped into like
4:42
an art that feels a lot more, you know, meaningful for me,
4:45
which is music. Not that we talk about that
4:47
here. We don't.
4:49
We can talk. People are people are like music
4:52
isn't off. I would never mention it.
4:54
This this show is really about to be like whatever you're
4:57
passionate about. So I mean, I think music plays a
5:00
big part of of people's even extracurricular passion, so.
5:04
Yeah. And yeah, I started, I started
5:10
streaming and it just became this outlets like try all this
5:12
weird creative stuff. And I'm not, I didn't even
5:15
engage with streaming as a medium, like as a watcher.
5:18
Like I was like a very big YouTube kid.
5:20
Like I used it right when I could, like right when it
5:24
existed in like 2006 or something.
5:27
And over the years it evolved into where it kind of is now.
5:32
I don't do it very often, maybe a few times a year, but I have
5:37
this community that watches me and they just send me the
5:40
weirdest video games they can find and it's awesome.
5:46
Like because I don't because when I stream, I try to make it
5:50
feel like elevated in a sense. Like, I'm not necessarily there
5:53
to like create a relaxing experience 'cause I used to like
5:57
yell and scream and shout, you know, which I've translated into
6:00
music now. But you know, it's a very
6:03
energetic thing. And I had like tons of imagery
6:06
and sound effects and whatever and like tried to make it a very
6:09
creative process. But over the years I've realized
6:14
like, I really love to make beautiful art and then engage
6:19
with it. And I love indie games.
6:23
I love creative statements that are so clearly tied to a person
6:29
and their personal experiences are just like odd choices and
6:32
breaking those things down and even stuff that's like, you
6:36
know, 'cause the Internet can also be a pretty cynical place,
6:38
especially on like YouTube and gaming and stuff like, no.
6:41
No. No, absolutely not.
6:43
No. And and like shouting stuff down
6:45
and I can certainly have my fair share of that.
6:47
But as I've gotten older, I really want to at least to some
6:51
extent, like try to find like the person that has made this
6:56
is, it's interesting, like, why did they do this?
6:58
And you know, and then you could probably cut to a clip of me
7:01
saying this fucking sucks, but you know, it, it just became
7:06
this love letter. And I just get, so you can do
7:09
this for any art, right? You can do this for music,
7:11
movies, and when you, when you make art, you know, or you make
7:15
a show or whatever, it's so fun to me to have the tools to break
7:19
it down like love by dissection. Like even if even if you don't
7:23
like something, be like, like, let's talk about why.
7:26
Let's like, you know, we're like, here's how they used sound
7:28
or here's how they used music or like, yeah, yeah, that's the the
7:33
preview, I guess. But like, I just, I like art.
7:38
I think indie games are a a very cool art medium because they
7:43
there's so much they're they're so there's so many dimensions to
7:49
them to your point, right? Like there's the music, there's
7:53
the art, there's the story, there's the gameplay.
7:57
Even like that can be very creative and very off the wall.
8:04
So yeah, I think that that's, I think that's really cool.
8:08
What are some of the weirdest games that you've played?
8:12
I was trying to look through some and the like real, real
8:17
hidden gem stuff. I didn't get time to like look
8:19
through because it it'd be harder because like on Twitch
8:22
you can like make a category for the game you played.
8:24
And I was going to search and I was like, well, if a game is so
8:26
small then you just put it under the category.
8:28
Games and demos. I have 8 years of this.
8:31
I'm never going to be able to find anything, so I'll use like
8:35
bigger examples within this zone, I guess.
8:39
But I, I made a, a YouTube video about this game a long time ago,
8:45
but it's a game called Arctic Eggs and it is.
8:49
Are you a gamer at all? Like 'cause I 'cause I was like,
8:51
oh, you can talk about music. I was like, OK I.
8:53
Actually so I and it's not about me, I started twitch streaming
8:59
during COVID as just an outlet to beat social I guess and made
9:06
a lot of friends in. Common, yeah.
9:08
Yeah, and I I did the whole V tuber thing.
9:11
I was more anime like anime Bunny boy straight out of Final
9:15
Fantasy 14, which was the game that I started streaming.
9:18
I did I did a lot of indie games as well during that time.
9:21
Not, not nothing like too off the wall, but like I did like
9:25
Amori, this one that I streamed the entirety of.
9:29
Oh it's so good. And the ending is is AI.
9:32
Should finish him more. The ending is very emotional,
9:37
yeah, like the whole game is kind of emotional, but the
9:39
ending definitely is. Yeah, have you ever played one
9:43
shot? I've heard of one shot.
9:45
I have not played it. I think it's on my, it's on my.
9:47
I think I own it on Steam probably as.
9:50
Zone of storytelling and trying to do a weird mechanical thing.
9:55
One shot. You mostly just walk around and
9:57
talk to people, and then the final act is one of the coolest
10:01
things I've ever seen in a video game, like ever.
10:04
It's on my list, Yeah. I think someone told me about it
10:06
and I was like, oh, cool AD and D game.
10:08
And then it is like nothing about D&D.
10:10
No, no, not at all. Yeah.
10:13
OK, so have you ever heard of the game?
10:14
Off, off, yeah, just like no, I would think O.
10:19
FF Well, have you played Undertale?
10:22
I have played Undertale. OK, cool.
10:25
So off off is one of the main inspiration games for Undertale.
10:31
And it was it was made by a Belgian guy in like 2006 or 7 or
10:36
maybe maybe it's a little later, maybe it was like 2008 or 9 and
10:38
it was just like posted on this blog for free.
10:40
And it's just this weird RPG Maker top down game with this
10:45
like bizarre art in this very dark like stuff going on, like
10:50
very chaotic sounds like like music and stuff.
10:54
It's pretty short and it's just a fascinating game.
10:59
It very recently got a a very big re release like with a
11:03
publisher with like fan gamer. It's on on Steam.
11:08
I just looked it up. It's on Steam.
11:09
It came out almost exactly a year ago in August, and you can
11:14
buy it bundled with one shot. So there you go.
11:18
I think, I think I just gave you your next month.
11:24
I've got to go. Have games from Brandon and I
11:26
Brandon from We Aren't Amphibious that I need to get
11:27
into at some point. But.
11:29
Yes, I'm, I'm going to have such a backlog after talking to to
11:32
all of it, to everybody about all these games.
11:35
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, No, those games are are
11:39
super cool. OK, so you, because I was like,
11:42
I wasn't, yeah. I wasn't sure if we had like
11:44
gaming overlap or if like we could pivot, you know, we need
11:47
to pivot to like big stuff too. I think, I think we probably do.
11:51
I probably haven't dived quite as deep into indie games.
11:57
I mean, I have, I have a handful that I've played for sure.
11:59
Undertale I've definitely played.
12:01
I don't classic. It's it's weird calling that an
12:03
indie game with how popular it is.
12:05
But but also it is an indie game.
12:07
That's how it was. It was made.
12:08
Absolutely. I mean definitely.
12:10
You know, I mean, it's like, I mean, it wasn't definitely not
12:13
now, not Delta rude, but you know, like one person or like
12:16
our tour sort of projects, you know, and then in the in the at
12:21
scale. But yeah, just just stuff like
12:24
that. I mean, I remember playing
12:25
Undertale at a very different time in my life.
12:30
I was, I was, I was very, very evangelical for a very long time
12:33
in my life. And I remember there's like a
12:36
couple of like peaks, like through where the light peaks
12:39
through like Undertale's one of those things took me a very long
12:41
time. Like I played it a decade ago,
12:43
but and then like one shot feels like that.
12:49
Oh, this Arctic Eggs video game, so video game called Arctic
12:52
Eggs. It won't take you very long
12:53
unless you're bad at it, which I was.
12:55
It took me like 4 or five hours. And there's certainly clips of
12:58
me just just yelling at the top of my legs playing that game.
13:02
But it's it was made. It was made as part of a game
13:06
jam initially I believe. And then it's basically you are
13:12
in a post apocalyptic winter like metal compound thing and
13:17
you your job is to cook breakfast for everybody in the
13:21
area. But like when you talk to them,
13:23
these bizarre camera angles will close up on people and they will
13:29
wax poetic about like casual philosophy or just say some
13:34
bullshit. It could be either thing and it
13:37
has this backbone like jazz music that also has some like
13:42
Sattar in it. And you are supposed to move
13:45
your mouse to flip the eggs and you have to flip the eggs and
13:49
not have them leave the pan. But over time they add more
13:53
things into the pan. So like that everybody smokes
13:56
cigarettes in this game. And so people start throwing
13:58
their cigarettes and they're like, I want cigarettes in my
14:00
eggs. And then the cigarette is the
14:02
timer. So if the cigarette burns out
14:03
before you cook the egg, then you lose and then you have to
14:06
start over. And then one person you go to
14:08
like the fish dock and a guy's like throws in a puffer fish and
14:11
the puffer fish is bouncing around the skillets and I have
14:13
to cook the eggs and the puffer fish is bouncing around.
14:16
And it's just like, it's just a collection of.
14:21
And like, when I describe it out loud, it sounds just, you know,
14:25
bonkers. Because it is what?
14:27
That's the best. That's the best kind.
14:29
It, it just creates such an effective tone and somebody who
14:33
so clearly perfected just like making this mechanic and I, I
14:40
just live for that stuff. I just, I just love it and it
14:45
was just, it's such a cool game. It's a really fun time.
14:48
I played it on stream. And then later that year I have
14:51
a cabin trip with all my friends from Arkansas, which is where
14:54
I'm from. I, I travel home and we do this
14:56
big cabin trip weekend. And that weekend, all of us sat
14:59
around on ATV, drinking, getting high, playing Arctic X on this
15:04
TV flipped the X we all feel like.
15:08
It looks I'm, I'm like pulling up the trailer while you're
15:12
talking so I can have some context, but I will, I will say
15:16
I recently played Creature Kitchen.
15:19
I don't know if you've heard of that.
15:21
It's it's very cool. There is an egg flipping
15:25
mechanic essentially like you have to cook things in a frying
15:27
pan. And I can tell you right now
15:29
that I'm very bad at that. You have to be good at games to
15:34
enjoy them. I mean, I that's why I'm not
15:35
playing Deadlock. That's why I'm not, I'm not
15:39
doing any of that. I play it.
15:41
I play the ones where I compete with me and then I go to sleep.
15:46
I that's the difference. I do try to play things like
15:49
deadlock in League of Legends, and I'm very bad at those as
15:51
well. OK.
15:52
And then you're big? You're big and sad person like
15:54
currently in this moment. Is that true?
15:56
I do, yeah. I mean it, It depends.
15:58
I don't actually play many as many games as I used to.
16:02
I've I don't either. These days I just keep up mostly
16:05
now. Yeah, You know, I had you know,
16:07
I had like AI mean what I read in like make a lot of money from
16:10
streaming, but I have like a, you know, I was hosting
16:13
something so I'm all I was always looking and now I'm kind
16:17
of just I don't know. I just put a lot of time into
16:20
into my other creative pursuit. So I give like, I have like a
16:23
few hours a week that I think I actually end up gaming and then,
16:26
you know. Yeah, same here.
16:28
That's, that's, that's about it for me.
16:30
Older, the nap net stuff and then my job that actually pays
16:34
money and then and then this that I just started doing, which
16:38
is honestly so much fun. I'm talking to people about
16:42
things that they love and now I might be coming backlogged with
16:46
like trying out the stuff that people recommend.
16:49
The real. Which is, which is so cool.
16:52
Honestly, initially this, the idea was I was going to talk to
16:56
people about D&D. And so far I've talked to one
16:59
person for like 1/4 of an episode about D&D.
17:02
Everything else has been like, like anything else, right?
17:09
Wrestling and but and indie games and horror and.
17:14
Such. Yeah, but such a cool thing to
17:18
get to listen to other people talk about the stuff that
17:20
they're passionate about and then like, try it out for
17:22
myself. It's infectious, yeah.
17:25
I've not played D and DI mean I've ingested, you know, a
17:28
decent amount, you know, all the like, dumbed down DMD, you know,
17:32
dramatic podcast or whatever like I've done.
17:35
So you know I've listened to the Adventure Zone for a time,
17:37
right? OK, OK.
17:39
And then I literally was with friends last night and they were
17:42
like, we should do a campaign. And, like, nervously, I'm like,
17:44
yeah, OK. And I'm like, am I ready to dive
17:47
into? Like, am I ready to commit
17:49
Right, you know? To something, you probably have
17:51
a blast. It's it's fun, yeah.
17:54
It is a commitment, though, Yeah, especially, especially
17:57
whoever ends up D Ming. And that's always the hard part
17:59
is finding someone who wants to invest their their time to like
18:04
actually, yeah, create the campaign and create the world or
18:08
whatever. My friend Taylor, who helps me
18:11
shoot my music videos, like they have run campaigns where they've
18:15
like, you know, built out, I'm pretty sure.
18:17
Maybe I'm exaggerating a little bit from the story, but I know
18:19
that they like have music timed to things and like, you know,
18:23
like built up these big events and I'm pretty sure they've like
18:25
built stuff, you know, just, I mean, it's just, it's just such
18:29
a, a tool to get creative and to learn how to like story tell and
18:34
read people and adapt. Like, you know, like doing stuff
18:39
on Twitch or like, I also like work with Youtubers and help
18:41
like make content for people. And so like trying to anticipate
18:45
an audience or trying to anticipate what you're you're, I
18:49
don't know what I don't know what as a deal your players, you
18:51
know, like what they would do is a very fun thing to try and like
18:56
like have that agility skill to storytelling.
18:58
What I've learned, what I've learned from DM ING and I've
19:01
I've only done it a little bit, but nothing that you ever
19:04
planned for is what is going to happen.
19:06
And that is kind of the adventure is just making stuff
19:09
up on the fly, having AI have well, I'll start a campaign with
19:13
just a little checklist of like a dozen different names so that
19:17
I can be like, Oh yes, this MPC is named Frank.
19:21
Yeah. Frank, normally a a more
19:26
creative name than what I just came up with off the top of my
19:28
head, which was apparently Frank, and that's a that's a
19:31
little strange. Yeah, that's the one on the
19:36
list. Yeah, you need like a a backup
19:38
names list. But yeah, it's fun.
19:44
But I, I'm like deviating in a lot of different directions, but
19:48
I, I want to hear more like, so Arctic Eggs is, is a, is a, is a
19:51
game that you that you enjoyed. What, what else?
19:55
What are some other indie games that you've enjoyed over your
19:58
time? I mean this is this is like mid
20:02
Indy or like double AI guess you know, like there's like AAA
20:06
games just be like AA game but like Risk of rain too.
20:09
I don't know if you've ever heard Risk of Rain 2.
20:11
I, I don't, I don't have the Xbox Live numbers for Halo 3.
20:17
So because I don't have those numbers, I can confidently say
20:20
that Risk of Rain 2 is my number one most played video game.
20:24
I've got like 1200 hours or something in it.
20:27
You wouldn't know it by how well I play, but yeah, I it was right
20:36
before the lockdown, me and my friends started a weekly let's
20:41
go see the movies and then after of week 3, then that couldn't
20:45
happen anymore. The movies were no more.
20:47
Then we played Left for Dead every week for a while and then
20:50
some which you know, left for A2.
20:51
Great game. And then somebody suggested Risk
20:53
of Rain too. And then we played that game for
20:55
like 3 years and then the world opened up.
20:59
They all stopped playing it and I kept doing it.
21:02
And then I showed it to all of my Twitch shooter friends.
21:06
They all started playing like it got, you know, just it went
21:09
everywhere. And yeah, I feel like, I don't
21:14
know if you've played a ton of rogue lights, but I, I've been
21:16
like analyzing this a good deal and looking at this list and
21:19
it's like I could go, I could look at any hard time in my
21:21
life, like whether it's a breakup or, or something I was
21:23
going through and there was a rogue light that was there to
21:26
take the pain and, and, and like that battery.
21:31
That's not the only time I play Risk of rain too, but like, it's
21:34
like that. And like Hades and like all
21:36
these other games where I think there's something really great
21:42
about a contained challenge that you can conquer yourself.
21:48
You are, you are fighting against the game, but it's
21:50
really you, right? And, and you, you getting skill
21:52
at a thing, but also the game is, it's kind of random.
21:56
And so it's like a little more controlled than life.
21:59
And so you're able to sit in and if you're older, it's great
22:02
'cause you can commit to an hour and then stop, right?
22:04
Like, you know, like gone are the days where I could give up a
22:08
weekend for Red Dead Redemption. Like I, I, I can't do that
22:11
anymore. But these, you know, contained
22:15
experiences that can be grounding in what I think.
22:22
Yeah. It's funny that you say you can
22:24
stop after an hour because that is the intention for sure.
22:27
But I'll sit down to play Hades or Slay the Spire or enter the
22:32
dungeon. Yeah, I I'll, I'll sit down and
22:36
I'm like, I'll, I'll play for a few minutes and then it's like 8
22:38
hours later and I'm like, where did the time all go?
22:40
I don't understand. Yeah, I think the other side is
22:44
it is the procrastination box like Slate Aspire 2, you know,
22:48
and make the recent, I mean that was, you know, if I've been
22:50
going through a hard time in the last, you know, six months, it's
22:53
been, you know, I'd go to Slate Aspire 2 and play that or like
22:55
play one too many. But it's also like, I'll try if
23:01
I'm try, if I have time to play a video game, I'll try to do it
23:03
before I go to bed and I'll just turn on the TV and play Slate
23:05
Aspire 2, which has the great benefit of I'm totally relaxed
23:09
and I also don't learn a damn thing about the game.
23:11
I'm so assed at Slate Spire 2. I have won every character a
23:14
single time and my friends are like, yeah, I'm on Ascension 15.
23:18
And I'm like, you can't tell me that.
23:19
And like make music that's that good.
23:23
I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't be like Ascension 1.
23:28
So but Slave Spire 2 is just just perfect game, just
23:32
incredible. I have not played two I've I'll
23:35
be 1. As I've been told, I actually
23:37
haven't played one but I've talked to all my friends and
23:39
they're all like. 1 is really good.
23:41
That was my SO. My whole thing was like I was
23:43
like what could they do to make it better?
23:45
I don't know that I need Slay the Spire too, but I've heard
23:49
that it's just it just is better.
23:51
Like the just, it builds on it enough that it's it's worth it
23:55
and I will at some point sit down and play.
23:58
Yeah, I mean, I think if you've played one, you'll just open it
24:00
up and maybe your immediate reaction will be like, I don't
24:03
get why they did this and then like it.
24:07
I mean, the game just looks better, right, You know, and
24:10
then I don't I couldn't, I'm not the person to tell you all the
24:13
things that are different, but I know that there's just more.
24:15
I think there's some things that are missing because it's like
24:17
still in early access technically that it'll like feel
24:19
more robust. But I've had a great time
24:23
playing and the Co-op in that game is really, really well done
24:27
and has all of these weird little things that make it fun
24:33
without letting you directly talk to each other.
24:36
So in the game, like you can't type to you're the person, you
24:40
can't connect a microphone. But what you can do is you can,
24:45
you can draw on the map. And so really what happens is,
24:49
you know, we're just drawing all the most childish things in the
24:51
map. We're like trying to like write
24:53
the direction you want to go because you choose your route
24:56
and stuff. And then you pick up an item
24:59
where you go to a chest, it'll open up to be 3 items.
25:02
But instead of just like like, you know, oh, everybody picks
25:05
one, it shows a little hand of your character go to pick which
25:08
one. And if two people pick the same
25:10
one, they play rock, paper, scissors and like like little
25:13
things like that or. That's cool you.
25:15
Can't talk during battle, but you can push the one interact
25:18
button you have where your character just says the same
25:20
phrase, which is essentially hurry up.
25:22
Like it's just like hurry up. It's the only thing you can say.
25:26
And it's. Yeah, I mean, I don't know, I, I
25:28
just kind of repeating the same thing over and over, but it's
25:30
like these little decisions that are just like considering little
25:34
fun things, you know? And so I've played it in a call
25:37
with people. I've played it out of a call
25:38
where you're just truly parallel play, where you're just playing
25:42
slave Spire at the same time as somebody else.
25:44
And if you decide to communicate, you attacks might
25:47
synergize. But otherwise you're just,
25:49
you're just playing and it's it's rad.
25:52
Yeah. Yeah, that sounds really fun.
25:54
Yeah, have you ever? Have you ever heard of Big Walk?
25:57
This is a new game. Big walk I have not.
26:00
Yeah, have you ever heard of Untitled Goose Game?
26:03
Yes, I have heard of Untitled Goose Game.
26:05
Graders, you know, however many years later what what year is it
26:09
like 8 years later? It's brand new.
26:11
It's it's one of these kind of recent games where or it looks
26:15
like one of these recent games. Where have you ever heard of the
26:19
term friend slop? Friend slop.
26:24
I have not, but I, I, but I know what it is based off of my
26:31
understanding and looking at at this game and seeing that it's
26:34
it's bundled with peek. Yeah, so Peek and this game, I
26:40
would say are the most refined of these types of games that are
26:43
kind of, it's kind of a somewhat derogatory but not really term
26:47
for games that are like meant to be played with friends and have
26:50
a lot of ways to be funny and are kind of trying to get some
26:54
sort of viral piece. A lot of the games are genuinely
26:57
fun, but then Big Walk comes out and it's like a piece of art
27:01
that does it. Like, you know, all these other
27:04
games you'll like be able to just like throw bombs at each
27:06
other and people blow up and there's fart sound effects and
27:08
whatever was like that's hilarious.
27:10
Big Walk is like, OK, we're going to put you in Outback
27:14
Australia and you have no volume control for the game.
27:18
You can hear the game world. It's hard to hear the people in
27:21
front of you unless they get close and you need to explore
27:23
around. You have no way to contact the
27:25
other players other than the tools the game gives you.
27:28
So if you get lost, you need to like light a flare or like shoot
27:32
a firework into the sky to find each other.
27:34
You have to solve puzzles. And it's just, it has a lot of
27:39
restraint and it's creative design and it's a really
27:43
beautiful journey that I have not completed.
27:45
But like if you ever play games with friends it it's like it's
27:50
just a really special game and like you can feel how homey it
27:55
is. I love that.
27:57
Team, you know, yeah, it's like, yeah, you know, they're like, Oh
28:03
yeah, this is just what Australia is like, like a couple
28:05
miles away from her house. That's why we wanted to make it
28:07
like this. And I love that I had like
28:11
please tell me more. Australia's always, Australia
28:15
always seems like the best place.
28:16
And then I look at pictures of spiders and I'm like, I'm all
28:19
right, yeah. There's no, there's no creatures
28:22
in the game. It's very peaceful game.
28:24
My friends and I joke that you play this really peaceful game
28:27
in this giant Australian island or whatever, and then there's
28:29
one velociraptor that's that can get you.
28:34
But yeah, there's no, there's no big animals.
28:36
They left that part out. It it looks pretty fun.
28:41
I've I've enjoyed Peak with some friends.
28:44
There's a game on Steam that every time I pull it up for the
28:48
last little while because it's on sale, it's called How to Fish
28:50
that I think looks so stupid but also hilarious.
28:54
I I know I've heard of that. It it's and I haven't played it,
28:59
so I don't have a lot to say about it other than like I've
29:01
seen the trailer and OK, it just looks like one of those games
29:06
that I would be really fun with like these six or seven other
29:12
people doing random. Oh, yelling at each other.
29:15
Be like, do the thing, please do the thing, Yeah.
29:17
Yeah, it's one of those games that it could be, it could be
29:20
fun to stream. Mecha Chameleon is another one
29:23
that I played that is just a lot of fun.
29:25
I'm not good at art at all. I can't believe some of the
29:30
stuff people do in that game. Oh yeah, it's crazy.
29:33
And and and with a mouse too, right?
29:36
Yeah, I've seen, I've seen some very silly stuff.
29:41
I've seen there's like there's like a a statue or like a horse.
29:46
Somebody curled their character off a game of balls.
29:48
We're thinking of the exact same one I'm pretty sure I've seen,
29:52
yeah. It was also like, they just had
29:54
to paint one color. It's like, yeah, I think that's
29:58
has beautiful merit to it. I know somebody who like made
30:03
mecha chameleon like figures and just put them in like LA in real
30:07
life, like just like around, yeah.
30:09
And I was just seeing some videos of that that I think are
30:12
hilarious. And I'm like, I have a 3D
30:13
printer, I should also do that. But then I'm also don't you know
30:17
art very well so. Yeah, I mean, you know, one day
30:20
at a time. Yeah, what else?
30:24
Whatever. I mean, are there any other
30:26
games that kind of stick out in your in your mind that you'd
30:29
recommend to people who are looking for a silly indie game
30:33
to spend a few hours on? Yeah, I mean, I think that bang
30:36
for your buck. UFO 50, OK, UFO 50, it's an
30:42
award-winning game from one year ago, two years ago.
30:45
It have to be two years ago and it's 50 games in one game, but
30:52
it's 50 games. It's 50 games made in like this
30:56
retro style, but they're all in chronological order as if they
31:04
were created by a fictional game developer.
31:08
So each game has its own little story from this fictional game
31:11
developer and you watch this developer like evolve their game
31:15
design over time. And the games look very retro,
31:18
but feel very good like to play like they feel very modern to
31:22
play. And I'm literally just repeating
31:24
stuff that they have said in interviews.
31:25
Like I'm just like, I'm just parroting exactly what they've
31:28
said about the game. And I think it's the creator of
31:34
a Spelunky is involved. I don't know if you ever heard
31:37
that. I think it's I think it's three
31:39
people that were the main team that I believe that games rad.
31:45
There's I mean there's a couple of just single games in there
31:48
that I've put, you know, a dozen or more hours into that are like
31:52
there's like a card game in there where you're trying to not
31:55
overfill a party for a house and you have to let in the right
31:58
guess and if you let in the wrong people, the party gets
32:00
crashed. Love that game.
32:05
Yeah, I'm. I'm like looking through and
32:07
there's like like platformers, there's some sort of sports game
32:13
where you're on a court, but it's there's no balls on the
32:16
court. I'm not sure exactly what's
32:18
happening there. Yeah, I don't think I ever
32:20
really figured that one. I actually, well it's also it's
32:22
like made, it's made like I mean literally when you open up the
32:25
game, there's kind of a cutscene like pretend cutscene of the
32:28
devs finding this game console in a in a storage unit, you
32:32
know, like. And so it's meant to be like,
32:35
you know, when we were younger and you'd play a video game,
32:37
especially like people who are a little bit older than me, where
32:39
like you're, you're opening up games that don't really tell you
32:42
how to play them very well. And you just kind of like they,
32:46
you know, you could pause for some of them and have
32:47
instructions. But for a lot of them, you have
32:49
to like, feel out what the what the hell is going on.
32:53
And yeah, you know, and, and like all this, like all the
32:57
games are fun. And then this extra layer of of
33:00
love on top to convey a feeling and an experience of like a
33:04
certain kind of nostalgia for people.
33:07
But the games, the games are rad.
33:09
Like, you know, I think some people might be turned off a
33:11
little bit by like how old, like how old the graphics look.
33:16
But also there's. I think you'd be missing out on
33:19
a lot if that was something that turned you off to to some of
33:22
these indie games. Absolutely, if you ever played
33:27
the new Doom games. The new Doom games.
33:32
Just like 2016 onward. Like the modern ones?
33:35
No, not really. OK, if anybody likes those
33:39
games, I mean, well, OK, if there's somebody watching this
33:42
who has not played this game and played the new Dooms, I'd be
33:44
really surprised. But there's a game called Ultra
33:47
Kill that's really awesome, right?
33:50
And I have. Heard of ultra kill?
33:52
I haven't played but I have heard of it.
33:53
Ultra kill is awesome. It is just just drugs is great
33:58
is it is so high octane, literally rule of cool the
34:03
entire way like you, but you fight a robot that is you like a
34:09
of different version of you're a robot.
34:10
You're a robot that is runs on blood and all of humanity is
34:15
gone. So the only place to go to get
34:17
more blood to keep running is hell.
34:19
So you're going through like a Dante's Inferno, layers of hell,
34:22
just beating the shit out of everything and it's just so
34:25
gruesome, but in a PlayStation One style and there's.
34:29
Just it reminds me of it reminds me of like original Marathon,
34:33
like before Bungie did Halo. I don't know if you ever played
34:36
that. I had never heard of it until
34:39
the new game and like, yeah, yeah, so it looks like that.
34:43
Was when I was, so I'm a little bit older than you.
34:47
I when I was a kid, I asked my parents.
34:51
They were Mac people. So we had, we had like power
34:54
Mac, actually even like pre power Mac, but we also were,
34:59
were not, my parents were not wealthy by any means.
35:04
We were, we were pretty poor. But I was like and had spoiler
35:09
alert for anyone who doesn't know this, but I asked Santa for
35:13
a computer because I was like, Santa will totally bring me a
35:15
computer. Like why wouldn't he?
35:18
And instead I got a CD-ROM drive that plugged into our Mac
35:23
because we didn't have CD-ROM capability in the Mac that we
35:28
had, and a disk of like 500 indie games and Marathon was one
35:34
of the ones that was on there. Was it like a dish for somebody
35:36
burned for you or like? No, it's like my, my dad like
35:40
bought like this sampler of indie games.
35:42
So I'm sure costs like 20 bucks or something like that.
35:45
But it had, it had a ton of like really cool games that my
35:50
brothers and and my sister like we'll talk about to this day,
35:54
like these random games that no one's ever heard of that we
35:58
spent hours and hours playing as kids.
36:00
Yeah, and I love that Steam has made that so much more
36:04
accessible to people now like and and to developers right to
36:08
publish their their indie games. But.
36:11
Yeah, yeah, I, I had, my brother's friend gave us ACD
36:19
that had an SNES emulator on it and a ton of games.
36:24
And so that's how I played. Like Link to the Past, That's
36:29
how I played. Oh, there was some other Super
36:32
Mario RPG. Like, Oh my gosh.
36:36
You just mentioned two of my favorite all time games I think.
36:38
I know I've beaten Link to the past but I had don't have a
36:41
single memory of it. Like I just don't.
36:43
Remember, all so good if you like Zelda games, that's one of
36:46
my favourites. Yeah, I mean, it's certainly,
36:49
you know, it's reputation precedes itself.
36:52
And then Super Mario RPGI got to a certain point and got stuck
36:55
and then like went back to the CD like years later and like the
36:59
the file was gone. So I like, I never have been in
37:02
that game. I got really close but.
37:05
That game, just the music in that game is so good for a for a
37:09
game that is like a Mario game but has nothing to do with Mario
37:13
really like it's so fantastic. The story is great the the
37:18
characters that aren't Mario characters are so good.
37:22
I'm Nintendo just decided they were like, what if we never made
37:26
interesting characters in Mario games ever again because we play
37:30
the paper Mario games. You know, paper Mario thousand
37:34
year door, right? I didn't have I didn't have a
37:37
game cube as a kid. And so I would go over to my
37:39
friend's house all the time and be like, Hey, can we play we
37:42
play thousand year door today, please.
37:43
Like I want to play more and like slowly over a very long
37:46
period of time, play the entire game and has all these weird
37:48
characters and you know this like, you know, whatever, darker
37:51
for Mario story or whatever, but you know, like this weird,
37:55
intentionally weird. It's, you know, themed around
37:58
ACD city that you go to. And then over time, Nintendo's
38:02
made more Paper Mario games. And I even read an interview
38:05
that was like, yeah, we decided to make them all boring.
38:09
Then they didn't say boring, but they're like, we want to keep we
38:11
let other games have the weird characters.
38:14
And so then in like the newspaper Mario from like
38:16
however many years ago, fucking 3 or 4.
38:21
Can I curse on the show? Yeah, yeah.
38:25
That. I appreciate you asking me.
38:29
Everybody asks and I'm like, yeah.
38:30
I didn't ask until I didn't curse like 100 times that, you
38:36
know. Then the the side characters are
38:37
just a bomb like a bomb like with no discernible
38:41
characteristics. Yeah.
38:43
But there's in the newspaper Mario, there is a toad in the
38:49
desert that says pop lyrics really.
38:53
Yeah, from like literally pop the band.
38:57
And because I think there was a developer or like a, you know,
39:01
somebody's doing translation or something or whatever, or the
39:04
American one that, you know, pops big music video that I
39:07
think they just like celebrated 10 years of like where they, you
39:11
know, ROM hacked all these NES games or the effects.
39:14
I think they ROM hacked them. But like you know when a toad
39:16
runs in and says lyrics from DVP and so there is a there is a
39:22
toad in the desert that will say some pop lyrics and.
39:26
That's really cool. I just.
39:26
Remember their drummer tweeting out like Oh my God Paper Mario
39:30
is my are my favorite games is the coolest thing that has ever
39:33
happened. It's like I could not imagine
39:35
how cool that would be. Like that is awesome to get a.
39:39
Shout out. Have some, someone or something
39:42
that you respect like that. Appreciate your art or music.
39:48
Yeah, absolutely. So Pop is in Paper Mario lore?
39:55
Good to know which is. A fantastic.
39:59
I loved Paper Mario. I played original paper, yeah.
40:02
Paper Mario like on the Nintendo 64?
40:04
Yeah. I emulated that I think.
40:08
Such a such a great game. They did.
40:10
They used to they, I mean, I'm, I'm, I'll be that guy.
40:15
But like, they used to make games so well.
40:19
And now indie games are where all of that like creativity has
40:23
moved to. Like there's so much politics.
40:26
I'm sure in, in making a AAA game, there's so much
40:31
expectation of what's graphics look like and how it runs.
40:35
And I think the real winners most of the time that I've seen
40:41
recently are are going to be like indie studios.
40:46
Yeah, I mean a shout out to the the Jason Schreyer YouTube
40:50
channel who's like a games reporter who for like it's super
40:54
seasoned and recently just made a YouTube channel and has put
40:58
out some some videos talking about like just like why are
41:01
games so expensive? And it's, and like it's a guy
41:03
who's like speaking from real authority has like talked to
41:06
everyone like over the years and he did a video, you know, it's
41:11
just like, why are games so expensive?
41:13
Like why does everyone do games as a service?
41:15
And just like the literal economy of all this stuff?
41:16
And so it's like, you know, and I mean, it's the all the answers
41:19
are all quite boring. It's like, it's like cities are
41:22
cities are expensive and people are expensive and the world is
41:24
expensive and graphics are, you know, if, if you're like an
41:29
indie game person, you don't care.
41:31
You just kind of want to see the underbelly of a good game.
41:33
But you know, like these conversations we're having are
41:37
are very niche, like even in general.
41:39
And like there's just a lot of people playing COD and playing
41:42
all this stuff. And if a game have bad graphic,
41:46
it gets bad press. Like like that's just what it
41:49
is. So they have to spend he he put
41:51
it like this. I haven't played Final Fantasy,
41:53
but this is how he put it is that it's like in the final in
41:56
Final Fantasy 7 or whatever, you have this like emotional scene
42:00
and you know, it might take like four people to make it.
42:03
You have these sprites and these sound effects and like writing
42:05
or whatever XYZ and hear him say I could be accidentally
42:08
exaggerating things. But then you put that in the
42:10
remake in Final Fantasy 7 remake.
42:12
And it's like then he describes like this would be like 50
42:15
people to make the same scene, like all of these different
42:18
compositors and and sound people and whatever in XYZ.
42:22
And just like this scale with this stuff and that you can't
42:25
leave any stone unturned, right? Like if you you can't look in
42:30
the corner and see a shitty tree that like is not.
42:34
Well, you'll get called out for it.
42:36
You'll get. Called out or the player will go
42:37
and it will take them out of your experience.
42:39
So and so just games. There's big.
42:42
The expectations are big, the games are big.
42:45
There's a running joke for Final Fantasy 14.
42:48
There was an expansion, the last expansion that came out.
42:52
You go to this place and there's this, it's like a, a biodome
42:57
essentially of like these the people like preparing for the
43:00
end of the world. And you go past this farm and
43:07
people were all up in arms because there were these grapes
43:12
that were very like polygons like, and you're in this like
43:17
huge MMO world. And there's like the game engine
43:23
that that it's on is like 10 / 10 years old now.
43:26
And people are still just like, oh, look, look at the polygons.
43:29
And then this one little tiny thing are.
43:32
You having fun? Are you having a good time?
43:35
Is music good? It's like.
43:37
It's right. The story's great.
43:38
It's like you, you buy the expansion pack and you have like
43:41
25 hours of extra story on top of the 300 hours of gameplay
43:47
that you've already you've already gotten to just to get to
43:49
that point. And people are like, the grapes
43:51
don't look like grapes. I saw a review for Risk of Rain
43:59
too a long time ago on Steep that was like like this
44:05
experience was just not worth my money.
44:07
And then the person had like 60 hours in the game because you
44:10
can see how much somebody plays like this game is.
44:13
I like maybe like $30.00 at most.
44:15
The game I paid 30 bucks for is not worth my money and I've
44:18
spent 100 hours playing. Yeah.
44:20
It's like, OK, like you don't have to like it, but like,
44:25
sorry, like what do you mean like?
44:29
It's just my favorite Steam reviews are always the ones
44:31
where because it'll tell you when they reviewed it like how
44:34
many hours they put in and then how many hours they put in
44:36
after. But they'll put in like a
44:38
negative review and then you'll see that they played for like 80
44:42
more hours after their their ten hour in review.
44:46
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they're just like, oh, this
44:49
sucks, you know? Yeah.
44:51
Reviews, I don't know, reviews, review culture, review bombing,
44:54
all that stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
44:57
Yeah. Lots of negativity out there,
44:59
lots of positivity though positive as well.
45:01
You ever heard of a video game called Ape Out?
45:05
Ape out. That sounds familiar.
45:07
I'm going to look it up right now.
45:08
It's probably how many years old would this be, Like 567,
45:12
something like that. Yeah, it came out in 2019.
45:14
I this does not look familiar to me at all.
45:19
Yeah, so you're a gorilla that runs through an office and and
45:25
kills people. But yeah, that sounds, that
45:29
sounds schlocky on on you know when I say it.
45:33
But it's a very minimalist top down style game and there is a
45:38
drummer soundtrack and the drummer's constantly drumming
45:42
and it's like, it's pretty sparse.
45:44
I think it's just drums and like other percussion.
45:46
But every time you, you basically grab people and push
45:49
me against the wall. And every time you kill
45:51
somebody, a symbol plays. And so it's like a live drummer,
45:56
you know, doing this as you're, as you're experiencing this
45:58
game, it's very tense because you're just trying to like
46:00
strafe in the right way to like get around all these guys who
46:03
are trying to like, you know, you know, stop you from
46:05
escaping. And it just feels very kinetic
46:08
and very good. And it is very funny to like
46:12
describe this and be like, it's a very awesome work of art.
46:16
You're a gorilla and you you literally blow up in blood.
46:20
But it's in color. It's in, it's in a color.
46:23
It's stylized. You don't, you don't feel like
46:25
that. It just looks like, you know,
46:27
orange juice. But it's a great game.
46:30
It's not too long of an experience.
46:32
It's very challenging. And it's it's just a very cool
46:34
artistic package. And that, yeah, it all.
46:39
You just go out on the other side and you're like, damn,
46:40
music is awesome. Like like all of art is, but
46:44
like just music. Like yeah, the drummer thing
46:46
makes it very. Music adds so much to games.
46:49
I feel like, like they're. I mean, and you, you see that
46:53
with so another indie game that has blown up and made the
46:59
developer millions of dollars at this point is starting value,
47:03
right? Yeah.
47:05
And. But there are like full
47:06
orchestras, like you can go see the the Stardew Valley in
47:10
orchestra concert, right? People just love it and it and
47:14
it is like an A whole other character in this in this game
47:17
that people sing hundreds of hours into and thousands of
47:21
hours. Oh my God, yeah.
47:23
I like there are people, people like Concerned Abe, the dev of
47:28
that game, who like give you hope for the world because I
47:32
mean, obviously like they've just made-up.
47:35
It's just a shit ton of money, like just so much.
47:37
But they just do updates. They've just done fantastic
47:42
updates for however long a decade.
47:44
They just keep doing that and they're doing a new game now.
47:46
But also there's just been an update.
47:47
It's like, oh, well, that's like the coolest thing I've ever
47:49
seen. Like, oh.
47:51
And like major updates that they don't make any like extra money
47:55
for releasing necessarily. Although I mean, I, I'll, I'll
47:59
be the first person to admit that I bought that game probably
48:02
like 5 or 6 different times between myself and my wife and
48:06
my kids and. And different platforms
48:08
together. Oh yeah.
48:11
That's cool, yeah. That one I mean, and, and I
48:14
mean, it's not indie anymore, but like Minecraft too, started
48:17
off as more of an indie game, right?
48:19
That's another one that I've bought 1000 times.
48:23
You know. I feel less good about buying it
48:26
now that it's like Microsoft but.
48:29
I I can't believe because that game, that game still just
48:33
prints money and it's like I feel like I thought it would
48:36
have hit critical mass by this point.
48:38
Like I'm pretty sure there's only so many humans on the
48:40
planet. I thought they all had it by now
48:43
like. I mean, yeah, I, I, I think they
48:46
probably make less money with people buying the game outright
48:49
and more money from or. Whatever.
48:52
Like the franchising of it all right, like.
48:56
Oh, that's. Fair the movie and the then and
48:59
all the the merch you can buy and all the all that stuff.
49:03
And then also there's like in game purchase stuff that you can
49:05
do in there too. It's like like what to do to do
49:10
servers from like the the more packaged angle.
49:13
If you're not like into Java, then I think you can pay for
49:16
that, right? I guess is a big deal.
49:18
I have paid for that for a month for my son to play with his
49:22
friends and then forgotten about it for like 2 months and I'm
49:24
like I can't believe I just paid Microsoft you got.
49:26
You got MO Ganged. You got Yeah, I.
49:31
Think that you got MO Ganged? I have a ton of ton of
49:34
Minecraft. It's it's a game that I
49:36
appreciate. It's same with Stardew.
49:38
Any like crafting kind of base games that kind of bounce off
49:41
me. Stardew I like because there is
49:45
a focused goal. I like I I make.
49:47
This is how I feel. I make enough choices in my
49:49
daily life. I don't need to make.
49:52
I don't need to play a game where I have to make choices.
49:54
I'm not here to make. I'm here to I'm here to go.
49:56
I'm here to like, I'm here to get something out.
49:59
And like, Minecraft has been fun with friends.
50:02
So it's not even shade to any of these games, per SE.
50:07
I remember during the pandemic, I was playing, like many people,
50:10
the Animal Crossing game that came out and I was like trying
50:13
to decorate my place in that game.
50:14
And then I looked up around in my house and realized I had not
50:17
decorated my own home. And then I put the game down and
50:20
decorated my house. It's a lot easier in in Animal
50:25
Crossing and cheaper. Maybe there's so there's so many
50:28
choices I don't like, I don't like there.
50:30
Are a lot of choices. That is very true.
50:32
Yeah, I've, I had to decide what to eat today.
50:34
I just want to like, I just want to play ultra kill and and RIP
50:38
off a robot's arm. That's, that's what I need in my
50:42
life. Yeah.
50:45
Let's see, I got a couple. I have a like a list of of games
50:48
that I, I pulled up to talk about that are like greatest of
50:52
all time indie games. Yeah.
50:53
Celeste, just one. Have you played Celeste?
50:55
I haven't. I have engaged with Celeste
50:58
content, but yeah, I've not played it.
51:03
It was just kind of watch my. Friends.
51:06
Oh, I mean I guess I should. It's probably it's part of the
51:09
trans Bible so I think I might be breaking the law from having
51:12
not played it and I need to have my I should go.
51:17
Back in the. Closet and then have the game
51:19
let me come out again with it. Actually ultra kill has a huge
51:24
trans community, so that's I'm going to claim that one there
51:26
you go there you go yes, very very funny community for that
51:30
game, but no, I haven't played Celeste.
51:32
I was like playing Hollow Knight at the same time like.
51:34
Around there's another one on my list of like indie games that
51:38
have gone more mainstream, but. Honestly, some crash.
51:41
Have. Like literally did like and that
51:46
that Jason Schreyer, same guy wrote an article that silksong,
51:50
you know, it took like famously like whatever, 7-8 years or
51:53
something and everyone's like, where is it?
51:55
Where is it? Where is it?
51:55
Where is it? It must be in development hell.
51:57
They must, they must have, they just have this difficult time
52:00
making this game and it's game that's still just made by like 3
52:04
people in Australia, mind you. And and then the article, it
52:10
reveals they were just having a great time.
52:12
They were just literally having a great time living nice,
52:17
fulfilled lives. He goes to their office.
52:18
It is so small and unremarkable and like just kind of messy.
52:22
And they've just had a good time making the game for all of that
52:26
time. Like how like these people who
52:32
get to, I mean, you know, we see all these giant indie games make
52:36
a ton of money and we, you know, we don't see the billions that
52:40
don't. But for these people that get so
52:42
successful on these piece of art and then to just be givers still
52:48
after getting all this wealth, they just spend the wealth on,
52:51
well, I got all this money. I guess I'll just spend all my
52:54
time making even better art like badasses.
53:01
Hollow Knight, I think one of my other most played games.
53:05
I haven't played Silk Song yet though.
53:07
So I got to play it. I've put a tough time in a cloth
53:10
rush. My son, my son who is 11, has
53:16
played so much hollow Night and some and so much song like he'll
53:21
sit, he'll sit on on FaceTime calls with his friends from
53:26
school and they will just play hollow night like like parallel
53:29
play hollow Night for hours and hours and hours.
53:32
The kids are all right. There are.
53:34
The kids are all right. The kids are OK.
53:35
If they're playing, they're also.
53:36
Playing Fortnite so I I don't know there's that too, but.
53:39
Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's, that's so cool.
53:44
That's awesome. I mean, if you're if, if 11 year
53:46
olds are playing so they're so good at video games.
53:49
So sorry so hard. He is it's insane.
53:52
I I remember, I mean he was probably about 8 when he was
53:57
like, can I play Fortnite? And my mom, my wife was like, I
54:01
don't know. And I was like, I'll play with
54:02
him. It'll be fine.
54:03
And we would play Fortnite together and it would be a
54:06
blast. And he would die a lot.
54:09
And I would pick him up and we would just run around the map.
54:11
And, you know, that's what's, that's what Fortnite is all
54:14
about. And now it's the opposite.
54:16
Like I will die so fast. He will come pick me up.
54:19
He's like, Dad, you're holding me back, man.
54:20
And I'm like. I love that that's so.
54:25
Cool. It makes me proud, you know, to
54:28
see how much better he is at video games than me at this
54:31
point in his life. It's the.
54:33
Malleable. The malleable stage of, you
54:36
know, like you can absorb skills so easily.
54:40
Yeah, they haven't been bogged down by choices.
54:47
Yeah, we didn't really get to talk about Adventure Time, but
54:49
I'll, I'll, I'll pivot just a little bit 'cause you mentioned
54:52
Adventure Time and it's one of my favourites.
54:54
Oh cool. Give me give me just your quick
54:58
rundown of like what Adventure Time means to you, I guess.
55:01
Yeah, So ironically, I love the show.
55:03
I've seen it multiple times. I've not seen any of the extra
55:06
shows. I've not seen a single thing
55:08
that has happened after the show ended.
55:10
And I think that's because I just wish things would end
55:13
because Adventure Time had such a lovely ending.
55:17
I was like, you know, I'm, I'm like, you know, sort of old in
55:22
the audience for it. You're at least at the time,
55:24
like it was coming out when I was, I've been like 16 or 17 and
55:29
like, watch a couple episodes. Didn't really get it.
55:31
I was like, OK, see you later. And then in college, I started
55:35
watching it for some reason and just like fell in love.
55:38
And it's a show. I think there's a lot of pieces
55:42
of art that do this really well. And I think it's the stuff that
55:44
developed these giant cult fan bases, similar to like Undertale
55:47
or even like Earthbound or Mother 3, where there's a very
55:51
fun, cute, kind, you know, main thing.
55:56
And then you can peel back and there's a lot of themes behind
55:59
it and a lot of just interesting things and and maybe like it's
56:03
not the deepest stuff all the time, but there's that dichotomy
56:06
is really special. And Adventure Time on the whole
56:09
balances building out its world and giving all these wonderful
56:13
characters. But like, I don't know, there's
56:18
just so many different. The show kind of slows down a
56:22
little bit, like because the beginning you can tell it is
56:24
like just go go go for kids. It's just like boom boom boom
56:27
boom, you know haha. And then it pretty.
56:31
Quickly starts. Yeah, and it's still fun.
56:34
And pretty quickly it starts to slow down and also becomes this
56:37
playground for writers. Like, if you watch the show
56:39
enough, you can start to tell who wrote the storyboard of
56:43
different episodes. And now I'm like, oh, I love the
56:46
Jesse Moynihan episodes because those are the ones that get
56:49
weirdly philosophical when they go into the mountain of Matthew
56:52
and just like, like, erode their bodies into into dust and try to
56:58
experience ego death. Like, and then the next episode,
57:02
Jake will wax poetic about being a brick observing nature, you
57:06
know, And then the next episode they'll just be like, yeah, they
57:09
we just found the city of cats. It was kind of crazy.
57:13
And then they'll they'll they'll drop in a tidbit of lore and I
57:17
liked when the lore was drip fed rather than like they I feel
57:21
like near the show's end and especially in the bonus stuff,
57:24
they kind of open the spigot for lore.
57:26
They're like, This is why people are watching our show.
57:28
And to me just a little bit as somebody who is, you know, never
57:33
written ATV show. So I know so much, but it it's
57:38
like a little bit I was like, don't give me quite everything
57:41
that the audience wants. Like scale back just to like.
57:44
I think that's what made Adventure Time special for so
57:45
long. Like they.
57:46
Find out more on my own. Yeah, yeah, like the end of the
57:50
show when and Adam Muto took it over, he still like did a great
57:54
job fleshing out the world, telling these big stories.
57:57
Like that's the best that could have been.
57:59
I mean the ending will make me weak of that show.
58:03
But it's so good. Yeah, but you know, I wish they
58:06
they they didn't open the spigot quite as much like, you know,
58:09
keep it. Don't give me everything, but
58:13
they gave me it. But what the everything they've
58:16
they're giving us is really great.
58:18
And so it's hard to like complain a ton.
58:21
I think that's kind of why I haven't watched any extra stuff.
58:23
But that's that's Adventure Time, just this big creative,
58:26
beautiful playground. And also a like ends up being a
58:30
coming of age story and like Finn.
58:32
You grow with it like. That and doesn't.
58:37
Like. You know, it does some weird
58:40
stuff with like, well, you know, with my Princess, like and then
58:45
doesn't, you know, like that like resolves that relationship
58:50
in a very adult way where he doesn't like get the girl back
58:54
or something. Like there's, there's things
58:58
that can't be undone and then people do new things and move
59:01
on. And then eventually they can
59:03
shake hands and say hello. Yeah, that's, that's been a time
59:07
for me. Yeah.
59:08
Yeah, I found Adventure Time with some friends.
59:12
Like we watched the original like pilot that is nothing like
59:18
the rest of the show and just some.
59:22
Yeah. Yeah.
59:23
I don't, I don't think they made it for Nickelodeon or something
59:25
like that. I don't, I don't remember.
59:27
We saw it on the Internet and it was just like this funny
59:30
Internet cartoon and it quickly like watching it.
59:37
It just it grows and you grow with it.
59:40
And I think that that was a really cool experience over the
59:43
years of Adventure Time coming out is like I was growing as
59:48
Finn was growing and I was older than Finn.
59:50
Like I, I didn't grow, I'm sure. And I know there were people who
59:53
were growing at the same time as as Finn, but it's still like I I
59:57
was growing as a person and watching this show like evolve
1:00:01
into a more have more philosophical or and and and.
1:00:08
Even more story to it then it started with where it was very
1:00:12
episodic and very like just random whatever happening.
1:00:15
Yeah very cool. I I would say of the extra stuff
1:00:21
that I've seen yeah, Fiona and cake is actually very good.
1:00:25
I've heard it's. Incredible.
1:00:26
I do need to get over whatever weird thing I have.
1:00:29
Whatever blocker you've got. People have like, friends have
1:00:32
accosted me about it like I have to.
1:00:35
Yeah, well, hey, I mean, it is, I don't know that it's for
1:00:38
everybody. And and I'm, I also will share
1:00:40
that sentiment of sometimes things should just end.
1:00:45
But I love that. I love.
1:00:48
And my my family also never had cable so I was like experiencing
1:00:53
it second hand a lot of times. Or like I would buy episodes on
1:00:56
iTunes. Oh man, I had episodes.
1:01:01
That I would watch on my little iPad our iPod nano video let's.
1:01:07
Go. Oh my God.
1:01:08
So like the tiniest screen ever and I just, I just watch
1:01:11
Adventure Time at work. That's so cool.
1:01:14
That and Steven Universe. Never.
1:01:17
Finished that you should also the.
1:01:20
Universe is very similar in that it like starts off as this like
1:01:23
really silly thing about this like chubby kid with a gem in
1:01:27
his in his belly that like has some weird powers and doesn't
1:01:33
know what what he is. And then like throughout the
1:01:37
show, like it just evolves into this very different type of
1:01:41
story that means a lot to a lot of people.
1:01:46
And. And is like, there are moments
1:01:49
in that show where I like, I like tear up because it's just
1:01:52
so good and it pulls at your, your heartstrings.
1:01:55
I don't think I've seen that show.
1:01:57
I definitely have not seen that show since like coming out or
1:02:00
whatever. And so it was a show that always
1:02:01
like slightly made me uncomfortable, not because it
1:02:03
was bad, but because it was calling to something in me.
1:02:06
And I'd be like, this is a good show, but I'm going to go do
1:02:10
something else. And so it certainly would be
1:02:13
worth watching. It's it's the whole Cartoon
1:02:16
Network. Like, I don't know if Rebecca
1:02:18
Sugar worked on Flapjack, but the show Flapjack, which I
1:02:22
didn't really like, but it is an incubator for all of these
1:02:26
amazing shows. Like from that inception point
1:02:29
is where we got like Adventure Time and over the Garden Wall
1:02:32
and, you know, and then Rebecca Sugar, you know, worked on
1:02:35
Adventure Time and then, you know, made her show and and
1:02:39
there there's others like it all, you know, just that whole
1:02:43
group of of, you know, animators, directors, writers
1:02:47
is, you know, it was a special period of time on television.
1:02:51
Sure. Yeah, was just great, great
1:02:57
entertainment, but also like some very transformative media
1:03:04
to consume. I think out of all that, I love
1:03:10
Over the Garden Wall too. I could talk about that for a
1:03:12
whole episode, probably. Oh yeah.
1:03:14
Yeah, it's a tricky. Yeah, every year.
1:03:19
And the first year I watched it with my kids, they did not get
1:03:22
it. They were too young and that was
1:03:24
fine. But but now we we watch it every
1:03:26
year. It's it's just one of those
1:03:28
things. Yeah, I'm going to come back
1:03:30
here in a year and have made a potatoes and molasses cover to
1:03:33
go in the next album. I go crazy, I go wild.
1:03:40
Well, let's that's a great transition point.
1:03:42
Let's talk about your music for a minute here.
1:03:45
So you you just released a song called Shed Song that has kind
1:03:50
of blown up a little bit. Yeah.
1:03:53
Well deserving, by the way. I think it's very good I.
1:03:55
Appreciate it. Thank you.
1:03:57
It was very surprising. I'm interested in the shed lore.
1:04:02
I've seen a few of your I, I, I have not followed you super
1:04:06
close on social media until until recently when we
1:04:09
connected. But I am definitely interested
1:04:12
in the shed lore. I don't know if that's something
1:04:14
you want to share or Yeah, absolutely, I'm to share.
1:04:17
You know, I think that a lot of artists struggle with this thing
1:04:19
where I think everybody wishes they could be mysterious and not
1:04:22
describe their work over describe it.
1:04:25
And I don't know, I just don't have that luxury And I I do have
1:04:30
a desire. Well, we kind of don't, you
1:04:32
know, like you have, you have short form platforms are not
1:04:34
like YouTube where YouTube or something you can choose, you
1:04:37
choose to engage, but short form you appear and the the tone of
1:04:41
these platforms is please, please don't leave.
1:04:43
Please, please, please don't leave.
1:04:45
Please leave myself the whole thing.
1:04:46
I need it. I promise you like, oh, you just
1:04:48
found a small artist with three -4000 listeners please and so.
1:04:53
I'm cutting this into a clip right now.
1:04:54
In my head, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, that's going to seem
1:04:58
awesome. I mean, everybody does.
1:05:01
Everybody does what they have to to do right.
1:05:03
And like, you know, it's your job to do it in a way that feels
1:05:06
honest to you. And so for me, I was like, I
1:05:08
think I am just going to start describing what my songs are
1:05:10
about. Also because I had experiences
1:05:12
where I came out to friends and it was very emotional and like
1:05:17
it was to a group of musicians. And one of my friends comes up
1:05:19
to me and, and he's like, hey, like not in like an exploitative
1:05:24
way, but like your story is powerful.
1:05:26
You should just tell it. And then I forgot, I forgot this
1:05:31
until the other day I opened my laptop and realized there was a
1:05:33
like a Reddit page that was like how to write good hooks for
1:05:37
Instagram. And it was like 3 years.
1:05:41
This something something this which is how I formatted my
1:05:44
viral like reel that went really big.
1:05:49
I don't know funny. Oh, that wasn't the original
1:05:51
question. What was the original question?
1:05:52
Oh, it was the lure of the shed. It was the lure of the shed.
1:05:55
So when I I I'm from Arkansas and with some other friends who
1:06:00
were twitch streamers, I wanted to move to Los Angeles and there
1:06:04
is an interim period where I went back.
1:06:06
I was living, you know, on my own.
1:06:07
I went I moved out and lived in that shed in my parents
1:06:12
backyard. I say shed for fun but like it's
1:06:15
an insulated where it was. It doesn't have AC anymore, but
1:06:18
it was an insulated room with a bed and a couch and power and
1:06:22
stuff. I had to go inside to use the
1:06:23
bathroom. But I would like live in the
1:06:25
shed for a summer and during that summer is very a big
1:06:29
dichotomy because for my twitch community I just been making
1:06:32
jokes about living in the shed. I'm like, haha, this is like I
1:06:35
just very blunt, absurd, not well thought out sense of humor,
1:06:40
while I'll just take a picture of the Shed and be like, it's a
1:06:43
shed stream tonight and everybody be like, yeah, shed.
1:06:45
Like it's my whole Twitch community and like friends,
1:06:48
they're just like, oh, Barry's in the shed again, this is
1:06:51
funny. Like something funny will
1:06:52
happen. But the other side of that whole
1:06:56
story is that I'm like writing what would become my first
1:07:00
songs. And this album I follow birds
1:07:03
like just really, really going through and just having like a
1:07:07
super tough time. And the Shed song is about this
1:07:13
really painful back and forth of going of like, I am queer.
1:07:17
No, I'm not, No, I'm not everything's fine.
1:07:19
No, I am queer. Actually, that's OK.
1:07:20
No, I'm not like that's not me. And that that can't be it.
1:07:23
Like, oh, I that is me and everything is wrong and like
1:07:26
imaging people imagining people I know judging me for this
1:07:30
thing. And that's the song.
1:07:35
And then the following summer 2023, now I had demoed a lot of
1:07:42
the songs that would be the songs on the record.
1:07:44
And I was like, I want to film music videos with my friends.
1:07:47
And so we went and filmed the music video, but the songs
1:07:50
weren't done. They weren't even like actually
1:07:51
recorded. Some of the songs in the record
1:07:53
didn't exist. And so I have this pile of music
1:07:55
videos of me, you know, very, very not how I look now.
1:08:02
And so as I made the decision to like transition and started to
1:08:07
look more and more different, I was like, oh, this would be
1:08:09
really kind of funny to do this again and finish the videos.
1:08:15
And so. Yeah, that I don't know.
1:08:17
That's the the song and the story of it.
1:08:20
And it used to be called I really like it, which is the
1:08:22
lyric in the song. It was, it was just like, some
1:08:24
days I really like it. Some days I'd rather leave.
1:08:26
And then while I was in mixing, I was like, what if it was the
1:08:29
Shed song? That sounds kind of fun.
1:08:31
And so I just changed it. Yeah.
1:08:34
That's a great title. Yeah, it's a great song.
1:08:37
I I Follow Birds, the full out the full length album out
1:08:42
September 25th. Yeah.
1:08:45
It's and where can people find you on social media and such. 10
1:08:50
lung tunes the word 10 the word lung, the word tunes at that.
1:08:54
Put it together and I'll be there either saying something
1:08:57
really personal or something really stupid.
1:09:01
And that's that's life. Yeah.
1:09:03
I don't know. I'm just doing content.
1:09:05
I'm trying to figure it all out. I think you're great at it.
1:09:09
It's something that I have not figured out yet for sure, but I,
1:09:12
I think the way that you connect, the way that you make
1:09:15
everything so personal. Like I, I found, I mean, I just
1:09:20
happened to cross because I have been following a bunch of emo
1:09:24
musicians and, and making friends in the emo musician
1:09:28
community and, and you popped up and I was like, that is like it
1:09:33
just, I think it's very easy to connect to you.
1:09:36
You're you're very personable just in general.
1:09:40
But but like, I'm, I'm, what am I trying to say?
1:09:46
Like watching, there's a one particular video, I think that I
1:09:50
saw that I was like, that's crazy.
1:09:52
And it's a video where you filmed yourself over a long
1:09:56
period of time and it just transitions back and forth
1:09:58
between your giant red beard and what you look like today, which
1:10:02
is the, the real you. And I just that connected.
1:10:07
I connected to that a lot, not because I see myself in that
1:10:13
necessarily, but because I have friends who have gone through
1:10:17
that same transition and I had and it, and I think that maybe
1:10:21
that helps me understand them a little bit better.
1:10:24
And so it, it made me feel like I was like, I really like this
1:10:28
person. And then of course, like you
1:10:30
write amazing music on top of it.
1:10:31
So that's. Really cool.
1:10:34
That's really cool to hear. It's cool to hear how you know,
1:10:39
people who are not queer themselves relate to things.
1:10:42
So yeah. That's really, yeah.
1:10:45
It's really neat. I'm at it.
1:10:47
It's I don't know. I won't get too deep into that.
1:10:50
That's yeah. We could talk for another hour
1:10:53
and a half about about that kind of that.
1:10:55
Kind of stuff, very deep conversation so I could talk at
1:10:58
you about video games for. A while so we can talk about
1:11:00
indie games, but yeah, thank you so much for your time.
1:11:05
I've I've kept you now for extra long and I really appreciate it.
1:11:10
Yeah. But yeah, everyone go follow 10
1:11:13
long, 10 long tunes. Is that what it is?
1:11:15
Yeah, yeah. That's the.
1:11:17
Yeah, that's the AT. Yeah, but.
1:11:18
The AT to the 10 lung tunes 10 lung on Spotify.
1:11:22
Yeah, you can just search for 10 lung on Twitch apparently.
1:11:25
I guess you can. You can find my my quarterly