Latest / Books4Guys / How Loving the Detroit Lions Helped Save His Life | Joel Walkowski on Addiction, Sobriety, and Resilience

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How Loving the Detroit Lions Helped Save His Life | Joel Walkowski on Addiction, Sobriety, and Resilience · Books4Guys

• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: Couldn't get a free throw to save our dang lives last time.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: And like I wrote a book about football.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm an avid basketball player.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's like my end all be all.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: I even at like 40, I play like four times a week.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, my my my personal favorite all-time NBA team that I watched was back when Ben Wallace, Chauncey Billups, Rip Hamilton when they beat the Lakers.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: But that was that's been my favorite championship team of any that I've seen.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not even from there.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: No, they're the best.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: And like it was pretty easy to root against Kobe for much of his career.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like he gets Lionized after the fact, but in the moment, everybody was was rooting against Kobe.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: I forgot Rasheed Wallace.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: I just watched the Jail Blazers documentary on Netflix and uh about his Portland days, but I remember when he got to Detroit, and uh, dude, that team was so much fun to watch.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, because the Lakers were so good at the time, it was like, all right, time for somebody to knock them off.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's awesome.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then like it happened around like a milestone in my life.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was graduating high school, and like all the games kind of coincided with like the big nights that go along with that.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: So all-time sports memory.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Man, that's awesome.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Joe, dude, I'm so I'm so pumped to talk with you.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Just number one, I mean, you're I'm a big sports fan.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: So when I saw your book, I was like, okay, this is cool, especially because like the Lions are relevant right now.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so uh there's a lot of fun to like watch them and their coach and golf and Dan Campbell.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, okay, what's this book about?
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then I started looking at your story, and I was like, dang, this is crazy.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: And just how you correlated a football team's struggles with your personal life struggles, which are pretty deep.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, man, this is something that I think will resonate with a lot of people, especially people who listen to this podcast, is because there are a lot of people that love sports, love personal development, love stories of people uh accomplishing and over overcoming obstacles in their life.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: And you, it seems like you had a lot.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: Man, I would love for you just to have the mic for a few minutes and just share your story and what all that looked like and how you got the idea to correlate it with your team, the Detroit Lions.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you so much for having me, Chris.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's a real highlight to be here, especially like I think like right after I reached out to you, there was like a a metric going around that's like more American men have gambling debt than have read a book this year.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, let's get on books for guys.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: I saw the write-up on the page yesterday, so I'm beyond stoked.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: But let's go into 2019.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: It is the dark days.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: Matt Patricia, he of Bill Belichick's Shadow, he was the Detroit Lions coach, and he kind of overconditioned his team.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: So, like you knew they were gonna give up a fourth quarter lead every week.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so, in knowing that we were going to lose, I expected it, and this thing that I didn't like couldn't hurt me.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then I started to think like being a Lions fan has made me, you know, a more well-adjusted person.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then I started to like trace the steps.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: So everyone knows the Detroit Lions are they haven't won since 1957 when Bobby Lane was traded, and there was like a curse put on the team.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: I tied that to an o my own curse in my family.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, my father, bless his soul, R.I.P., he was victimized of like molestation early in his life, and he was also just a special needs person.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: So that kind of created an odd dynamic where, you know, he could didn't quite know how to parent me.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: He could give me this football team, but then the losing and the struggles of the family are kind of traced side by side from this one moment in the 50s to the present.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then there were some like great coincidences, not great because like I dragged myself nearly to death when we went 0-16.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: I really embraced sobriety when Dan Campbell came along, and then like the book ends with the lions going on a run as I give my dad a beautiful death.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: So that's it in a nutshell.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's the most authentic thing to me, but it I think it's so authentic that anyone can really step into the story.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I I I totally forgot.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: I want to make sure we we didn't even say the title of the book, but Honolulu Blues How Loving a Losing Football Team Created a Winning Man, which, man, it's that's awesome.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: So where did, and this may be a Detroit thing that I'm not aware of, but Honolulu Blues, where did where did that specific title come from?
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so it's kind of a fun bit of history.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: Honolulu Blue is the Lions team color, but it's written into team bylaws.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: The original owner who brought the team to Detroit, George Richards, he loved Hawaii, and it is stipulated that whatever color the Lions wear is Honolulu Blue.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a little bit confusing because people are like, Well, you wrote a book on Hawaii.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, nah.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: If you know, you'll definitely know and get the title.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, thank you for also mentioning the title.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: Marketing 101 for the debut author here.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: No, and I figured it had to do something where most Detroit fans would know what that means.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm surprised, just as a sports fan, I didn't, I had no idea that that was that was the case.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, no, great book title, especially like from where you're from and and what all that is.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: But Joel, as I was kind of again, I was reading your story.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you got some of the stuff it says addicted to Adderall at a young age, and then alcohol.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and I know you mentioned your dad's struggles, and you really didn't have anyone there to kind of guide you through maybe some of this, but what was, if you're comfortable, you know, what were some of those struggles and how did they how did you come across those struggles?
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how were you introduced to them?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then what was your path to to overcoming them and and really, I don't know, elevating yourself to get past those struggles?
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and like it it starts off with affirmation.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I was an Adderall kid, and like I was in high school, and like I cared a lot about this student film like program we were in, and like I started like to multiply doses.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: I did more and more and more, but the work got better, and I got a lot of validation, and it kind of got to this point where I only got felt good about myself if I did something well, and like that's not a very good like approach to take.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: So that I was in that dynamic from the time I was like 14, 15 years old.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then by the time I discovered booze, like I was taking so much speed, I needed a release.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I think like I talk about in the book, like the first time I ever drink is like on Thanksgiving, we lose to Peyton Manning by like 52 to 14.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: I buy a bottle, I drink it alone in my backyard, I hide the evidence.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm an alcoholic from the very first sip, and like I boozed pretty heavy.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just a mix of like pills and booze for a 10-year span of my life, and like kind of got me again in the pandemic where like I really needed to just like make it my number one priority, put recovery first, decide that I'm worth a claim, not anything I do, and like kind of just reinvent my inner life.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so then I ended up in a program called Smart Recovery.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a facilitator of it in New York till this day.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: And like it's all like therapy exercise where it's just like, hey, rank the things you care about.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: Are these thoughts that are making you drink?
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: Are they rational?
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: And like it's so it feels so basic, but I hadn't done any of that work before.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: No, and I I think it mentioned too, you experienced some some times of homelessness.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: Man, just for like people that don't know what that's like, can you go into detail on just like what does it feel like to just be in a place where you feel like you're at the bottom?
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: And and I'm asking that because we see people, and I'm always curious of this is like how if you don't have someone there to help you and to guide you and kind of to like help you get over that hump to to start, you know, climbing the steps back to to being somewhat successful and and you know, doing everyday life, like what is that like?
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: What is I just want to get in your head for a moment of like what your thoughts were and and how just what the experience was like.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: So what it was for me, like not quite homeless, but I bought like uh a dilapidated RV for$1,500.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: And then I didn't have the money to move it anywhere.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I was just stuck in this little like lot with nowhere to go on the other side of the country from everyone I knew, and like I didn't have a dollar to my name.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: So what does that look like?
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's a lot of eating food in the grocery store.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's not stealing if you eat it in the doors.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: So like it's kind of you have so much you need to do that it creates like, I'm gonna do whatever it takes to get by.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, and this was like early 2009, the economy was in shambles.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I was like a kid who like kind of made good, got a college education, then I like I couldn't get a retail job, so I was like hand-to-mouth, sleeping in a car, and like I remember like if I drove too far, I would have to sleep places because I wouldn't have money to do the daytime tolls back, and so you know, and even though like I've come so far, like that mindset stays with you, like the feeling of not having anything, like if you have it once, you kind of have it forever.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: So, like now it's a pretty persistent wave of gratitude.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm on, yeah.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: Man, that's insane.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: Again, I just I like learning about people, and and we I talk about this all the time.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we see people who are successful, and and like even you, Joel, someone may not know your story, but they're gonna they're gonna see that you wrote a book and be like, oh man, Joel's like crushing it.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: He's doing all this cool stuff now, like working, has a book, you know, speaking, doing podcasts, but they may not realize just you know, without reading your actual story, just what all that looked like.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: All the again, all the mountains, all the the potholes that you hit along the way.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I just think it's really cool and important for you to share your story and experiences so that maybe somebody out there who's going through the same thing can say, oh, hey, well, if Joel can make it through, then I can do it.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it creates some hope, or maybe people just get, you know, some reality, and maybe they think, hey, what I'm going through wasn't as bad as what Joel was going through.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, perspective a little bit.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: But when you decided to turn things around, did you have someone that kind of helped you like give you that boost of confidence to do that?
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: Or was that something just internal that flared up where you were like, hey, I'm tired of this, I'm sick of this, like I gotta change.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like, who do you give credit to in this transition?
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, this is a platform that kind of specializes in like messaging towards men.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'll say that I owe a great debt to like a therapist I worked with.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, in talking about like I was in talking about like myself, it was gotten turned into like an analyzing like, how did this family dynamic play into addiction?
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then she recommended the SMART program, where it's just like addiction is very isolating.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: Recovery, you feel accepted almost immediately.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: Where it's just like, oh, I've held these things close to my chest for like 15 years.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't shared them with anybody.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think I'm alone in this.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then like you talk about it one time, and it's like, oh, anyone in these rooms knows exactly what I'm going through.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: And like from there, I leveraged the rooms and like tried to do a wholesale reinvention of myself.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's awesome, man.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: I literally I just thought I had the book handy here.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: I just did a podcast with, oh yeah, it's right here.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: With um, I don't know if you know who Caesar is, but he wrote a book called The Powers of Addiction, and his was alcohol focused.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: But it was very similar thing.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: We're just talking about like, man, just being a little the power of vulnerability, like saying, hey, I've got I'm dealing with something, and then having people help you get through that, and then the empowerment behind being able to share your story with others and and help be a part of other people's recoveries.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, Man, it's kind of hard to explain, just like, I wish I'd have done this sooner because now I'm able to, you know, turn my story when it could have gone a different route into something that's positive.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: You you talk about therapy, that's a big deal.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, a lot of guys, I think, over the last few years are being a lot more open about that, it seems.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: But that's really just recent.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think you're right.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like I can imagine 10, 15 years ago, most guys still probably weren't really admitting to to go to therapy or talking to somebody.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: Was that experience like working with a therapist?
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: Was that your choice?
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: Or were you, I guess were you not given a choice and you had to go work with a therapist to kick things off?
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: And it was my choice because like I just every day was a struggle to quit, where it's just like today's the day, and it was never the day after like a span of years.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: So like I got caught in this one cycle where I needed to view things differently and get out of that rut.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: And like, it's hard to be like, hey, I have a problem.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have control over myself, but ultimately that's the best thing I could do.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: And like in the rooms, there's talk about like people don't like to like, you know, say, oh, I'm an addict.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm proud to say I'm an addict.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: One, it destigmatizes like addiction as a whole.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: And two, if you say you're an addict, you're in some pretty good company.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if you look at the interesting artists and writers and musicians over the years, you know, there's some pretty wonderful achievers who are addicts.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: I was about to say there's actually a lot of successful people who've been addicts.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: I've never thought about it that way until you just said it like that.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, hey, actually, you know, it's not a not a bad thing.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like a lot of people have overcome this and done some amazing things, which you're right.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's a thing, that's something that needs to be said and put out there for people to think of it in that way.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so that's that's funny.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, why would I turn down having one more thing in common with Prince?
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like that just seems counterintuitive to me.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's amazing.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Joel, as you've, you know, as you continue your journey, I'm sure, and I oh, I guess I should ask, I shouldn't assume.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like, is it still a daily struggle for you to make sure that you don't take a step backwards?
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I think like once you get over certain thresholds, like it gets easier.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: But like I went to a wedding over the weekend, and like I know that's not gonna be like for me, but I was like, okay, we're gonna have a strong coffee at 9 p.m.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: So we're caffeinated on the dance floor.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: We're just gonna, and like even like there's little strategies where like making small talk at during the spot where like you would have a drink.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: I asked the people I'm talking to questions.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: We're like, there's little strategies in place that like help me now, where it's not as strong, but like I know, like, oh, there's there's a playbook I gotta stick to.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like, don't deviate from what we know has worked before.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: And a big part of like my process is like, oh, I see some something coming up that might be hard.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: Let's make a plan for that.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to come into that cold more than anything else.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, man, that makes a lot of sense.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I've I've never thought of that.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I know your book hasn't been released yet, it comes out this summer, but do see you talk about some of these tricks that you do to kind of plan for these moments or things that you do in these moments to make sure that you don't slip up.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and like I plan every week of my calendar in advance, where like Sundays are my day to have fun.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I know the Lions, we usually play at 1 p.m.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: We we don't have the marquee matchup.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: So you've got you've had a lot more prime time games recently.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: We have, but like over the span of the last 10 years of like touch and go sobriety, what I started to do was I signed I started organizing a basketball game at 5 p.m.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: every Sunday.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I would be still be able to go to the bar at with my friends, but if I drank, if I slipped up, if I wasn't sober, then I wouldn't be able to do my favorite thing.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: So it was just like, yeah, I could slip up, but then I couldn't do this other better thing.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like that arrangement of time.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: And also, after a bad loss, nothing's better than running around getting buckets for two hours.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: Dude, that's awesome.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: I I I've talked to a few people who have discussed their their struggles with me, whether they wrote books or just that, but I've never heard anyone like provide their strategies for not going backwards, which I think is really cool, though, that you're you you provide specific examples like, hey, I'm gonna go watch at a bar, which I know I could easily have a drink, but I'm gonna schedule basketball right after because I know I can't go play basketball if I'm drunk.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like those are really cool tactics that I've never heard anyone explain before.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's really, really cool that you came up with those ideas to help create positive roadblocks so that you don't stumble into, you know, a bad habit again.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think like you're kind of hitting the nail on the head, Chris.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like any addict, like we're kind of programmed by society.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of messaging that says drink or gamble or use.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: There's not anything that says, like, hey, what's your personal idea of fun?
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: So my favorite part of recovery is like figuring out like what are the things I actually enjoy.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: Turns out it's a lot of like it's basketball, it's playing with my dog, and it's eating ice cream.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like very fancy, but like that's what works for me.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: So my life, at least socially, revolves around those three tenants and a girlfriend who will be very upset if she hears me not name her.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, Diana.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: Smart man, smart man.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: Joel, if you know, people that read your book that that's coming up, and I can't wait to spotlight it, and I can't wait to post it out there because I think, man, I just can't wait to hear what people say and what people take away from it.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: But what is your personal hope and message, or even just one nugget from your book that you hope people take away from it when they read it?
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: And my my thought was like, I want it to be like a sobriety journey, but also like a man deciding to take ownership and agency over his interior life.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I think my biggest goal was to make the book so entertaining and funny that it tricked people into embracing like a very meaningful message, but like you can trick bros into like self-help methodology by talking about football with them.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: No, very smart, very smart.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm thinking of a couple more questions, Joel.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why and and what was the process behind writing the book in the first place?
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I know you have a message to share, but when did the idea click in your head, like, hey, I've got something here that I need to share and write out?
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: What did that process look like?
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so the process, I mean, it kind of starts with addiction.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I would take a lot of speed and I would drink, and like the first thing I wrote seriously, it got picked up in the New York Times, which is actually a bad thing because I decided, you know, I'm I'm the greatest writer ever created.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: So like I used a lot more.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: I tried to write a book, and that's when I ended up like needing 14 blood transfusions because I drank so much.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, I'm in I'm got I had a like maybe six months sober.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: I was halfway through getting my masters, but like I was asked to set goals for myself.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what do you really want to do?
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: What will make you feel fulfilled?
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: And this book is what I came up with.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: I believe there's a great story in my family and in the Detroit Lions, where like I think any person who grew up in Michigan has lived this story to some some regard, where like this became my absolute mission.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I watched every game from 90 through the present.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: I journaled by hand, I left the journals on top of my car.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: They flew up, flew off, got ran over by a truck.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: I had to fish them out of the sewer, and then like I did the second draft just like sitting by my dad's deathbed.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: So like I ranked the things I cared about, and I made the book like very high up there.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: Probably number two to my dad having a good death, where it's just like, okay, I work a job, I got two.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hours before I go to work.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: I got an hour and a half after my dad goes to bed.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, let's let's do it.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: So, for three years, every day I was like four hours pen to paper getting this thing right.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: Love that, man.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: I just love the way I just love your thoughts on things.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like creating roadblocks that you don't, you know, fall into temptation.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: I got two hours before work.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go ahead and write.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's so it's so easy for people, I think, to create excuses and to bog themselves down with busy stuff that they don't care about, that they really don't want to do, but they think they should do.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I just you just seem so practical in your thoughts.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like, hey, this makes sense.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and it does.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, duh, like, yeah, it's right before work, let's right before after work.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, let's create a a scenario where I don't get caught up doing something I don't want to do.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it just seems so easy, but it I think most people overcompu complicate that, whereas you just make it sound so simple.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: And but it I think it all starts with you take a step back, you look at your life, you ask what matters to you.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then once you have those answers, you kind of have to figure out you have that information, you gotta figure out how to live your life in accordance with those values.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: If I didn't do this, I would feel very, I would feel some sense of anguish or anxiety.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm doing this, like I feel very at peace.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: And like I can go forward, I can write a lot, and like at the end of the day, I can just have fun and just kind of let my thoughts go or wherever, because I did what I'm supposed to.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: Heck yeah, man.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: Well, just a couple fun questions to to end this, and I'm gonna stick to football and basketball because that's my two favorite sports.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and there may be some two-part questions to this, but who is your personal all-time favorite Detroit Lion player?
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I gotta go with Golden Tate.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like Golden Tate.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: Golden Tate.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, Golden Tate, everyone who's been the Lions' number two receiver, those are the guys I like the most.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: It could be Golden Tate, it could be Jamison Williams, Roy Williams, like whoever's that like the second receiver in the offense.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: I just feel like those guys define the city.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like Golden Tate, the way Stafford played after Calvin's like surprise retirement, it was just like we had seven come from behind victories that year.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: We were counted out before the season.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: And like that was the first year I stopped drinking.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: And like for for me to show up to the bar, kind of white knuckle knuckle it, and have so many fun outcomes.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: Golden Tate will forever be my guy.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: I know it's sacrilegious not to say Barry Sanders, but that like goes without saying.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if you ask a Catholic, their favorite saint, nobody says Jesus.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, man.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: No, I love your answer because number one, it shocked me.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: I was thinking Stafford, Megatron, Barry Sanders, everyone always says him.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: Domican Sue could have been one.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: No, he left us.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: He left us in free agency for like a little bit of more money in Miami, and he never turned out for him.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: So Sue was wrong to leave.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: No fan base loves Sue.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: He could be a legend forever in Michigan, but he he wanted that like a little bit extra money, but he was advised by Warren Buffett throughout his entire career, which I thought was an interesting fast that I learned.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and he he his career never really was the same after leaving Detroit.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: It was so much fun watching him on the Lions because that I feel like that kind of really sparked a turnaround of that era and where things started looking up.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: I feel the same way, man.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm an Oklahoma City Thunder fan, and when Kevin Durant left on the 4th of July to go to the dubs after the Thunder was up three games to one in the Western Conference Finals, I never felt the same about Durant again, and I still can't stand him.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I know exactly where you're coming from.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you get it.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: At least it worked out for Durant.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: It didn't work out for Sue.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: Sue was like not a part of winning teams in Miami.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: He got like a Super Bowl as like a ring as like a depth piece, but like should have just stayed.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, he should have.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: And good for Durant.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: I still don't like him.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, congrats on being a fan of the greatest basketball team ever assembled.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I huge, yeah.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: I know, right?
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like after you were you should have beat him, whatever.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: Basketball, who's your favorite Detroit piston of all time?
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Cade, baby.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: Cade Cunningham, like because I kind of he came into my life.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, so I like it.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: Detroit's a place that is always either looking forward or looking backwards in time to have a player who just kind of plays at his own pace and have so much patience.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: And like I love the Pistons.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: Cade restored the Pistons to relevance, and like before it was always great teams by committee.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: Now it's one guy leading the entire franchise.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: So Cade has a special place in my heart.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, love that man.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's fun, it's fun when the when Detroit's good, and maybe that just stems from me like in that 03-04 team.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: I say Big Ben was always my favorite, just from the fro to the cornrows and the back and forth.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, Big Ben was probably my favorite during that time, but I love like the Rick Hamilton coming off the screen, catching, doing the mid-range jump shot.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: I used to do that in like NBA Live.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: I used to play with them all the time.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: So that was good memories.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: And there might be the recency bias of you're asking me this.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: We're in the second round of the playoffs for the first time since 2008.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, Cade has like too much importance.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm training a puppy right now, and you know, you have to have that like code word.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: So every time my puppy does something good, I say Cade.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because like that's like what Cade represents to me.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: I love that, man.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: We've been we've been locked in on the series, and then when this episode comes out, uh I hope Detroit still still when this comes out, it'll be the NBA Finals.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: So hopefully they're in the finals when this when this drops.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm definitely rooting for that.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I mean, you're not gonna be rooting for us if we're still in the in when this episode drops.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: I have a feeling you'll be a happy man come early June.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: Good deal.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Joe, man, thank you for for taking the time to reach out to me to share your book.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you also for being a part of Books for Guys and helping our mission and getting more books in the hands of young men and just encouraging those personal development journeys, you know, encouraging the the reading of books like yours for people to to again say it's a cheat code of someone's struggling and and maybe they can fix that problem sooner by reading your book, or or they can get through a struggle by reading your book.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so, man, thank you so much for for again supporting Books for Guys, for writing your book, and thank you for taking the time to do this this podcast, cuz I I can't wait to share it.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: I've got I've got a buddy specifically that is a huge Detroit fan, Michigan guy, and he's gonna be the first person I send this to.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so, uh, but man, keep keep sharing your story.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: We're looking forward to your book coming out this summer and spotlighting it even more.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: And uh man, just super excited.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: Excited to to hear your passion behind what you're doing and and what you'll continue to do, and and we're always here to support you.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's so sweet.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for running books for guys, for highlighting Honolulu blues.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, if anyone's interested in checking it out, it would mean the world to me.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: And like, it is all these things, but above all else, this is a pretty funny book.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like it will make you laugh, it will make you cry, and it'll make you think, and it'll do that while entertaining you.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I encourage everyone to check out Honolulu Blues and whatever else Chris has to recommend.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: But give me that shine first if you're still listening at this point.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: No, we'll make it the book of the week when it officially drops.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll make sure everybody sees it.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: But no, appreciate it, Joel.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: All right, thank you, Chris.