Latest / Stuff Mom Never Told You / Feminist Movie Wednesday: But I'm a Cheerleader

Transcript

Feminist Movie Wednesday: But I'm a Cheerleader · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: I welcome to staff. I never told your prediction if
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: I heard here.
• 0:18
  Speaker 3: Oh disclaimer, y'all were having a hard time. I am
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: having a hard hard time. So this is why, as
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: we are still celebrating all things Pride, that we decided
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: to add another movie Slash, a cult classic to our episodes.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: And honestly, we probably should. I should have done this.
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: Like like the first Pride month, you know what I mean,
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: because it's such a classic when we were doing movies,
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: because it's such a classic that I kind of just
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: it wasn't in my thought process because I didn't I
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: didn't know it was a queer movie, by the way.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: I thought. I genuinely thought that this was a cheerleader movie.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: But you say that having not seen it.
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: Having not seen it and know nothing about it. But
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: what I'm talking about and what we are talking about
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: today is but I'm a cheerleader, the nineteen ninety nine
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: Slash two thousand classic cult classic movie that yes, is
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: a queer classic. Once again, I did not realize because
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: it was during the era of all of those cheerleading
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: movies and like girl movies that I really just thought
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: it was one of those, so put it in there
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: with you know, Bring It On, Jawbreaker, like those types
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: of movies that that's kind of what I saw this
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: ass And so I did not realize until a few
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: years ago how iconic this movie was for so many,
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: especially like a queer lesbian, you know, women who identify
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: as queer, like this was something they saw as huge.
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: And again I did not know anything about it. I
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: actually we were talking about doing another movie and I'm like,
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: what about this movie?
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: And you were like, yes, I was. I was which
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: a couple of notes we might be doing Bring it On,
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: which I have not seen.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: I'm probably gonna make you yes soon.
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: I had never heard of it until we started doing
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: I had never heard of but I'm a cheerleader until
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: we started doing movies for Pride Month, and it consistently
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: showed up on the list. I can't say why. I
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: was always just kind of like, oh, we'll do this
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: one instead. There was no real reason, but I knew
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: it was iconic, and when you suggested it, I was
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: very excited because I've been meaning to watch it. So
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh, yes, now I can watch it
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: for work. Yes, so this is great news. But it
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: was my first time seeing it as well.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and did you like it?
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: I did like it. I know we'll talk about this
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: it is, Yes, from the late nineties early I was
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: expecting there was definitely some stuff that hasn't aged well,
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: but I was expecting worse. So I really did enjoy it,
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: and I thought it was a very funny, bizarre thing
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: that had a lot of commentary in it about gender roles. Yeah,
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: it wasn't quite what I thought it was going to be,
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: but I liked it. Yes, it did. When it first
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: came out, like with so many movies we talked about
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: on here, it got mixed reviews. In fact, when it
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: originally was released, this movie got a forty two percent
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: rating on rot Tomatoes and scored a thirty nine out
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: of one hundred on Metacritic, But the queer community was
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: much more receptive to it. The film did receive awards
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: at different international competitions and received a standing ovation at
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: the San Francisco International Lesbian and Gay Film Festival.
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's been has since become known as a
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: cult favorite for so many You're going to see a
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: lot of people writing about it about how it changed
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: their life or gave them better understanding of themselves or
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: had a moment of like, oh, this is refreshing. Many
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: fans today still talk about its impact and how much
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: it meant to them to have a movie like this.
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: In a blog written by Kay Burdo, I really hope
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: I said your name right, so sorry if I didn't.
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: They talked to fans of the movie and asked what
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: it was about the movie that was so amazing to them,
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: And here's some of the quotes that they got. So
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: one of the subject was it has a happy ending,
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: and the comment goes, but I'm a cheerleader is by
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: all definitions of rom com and it comes with a
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: requisite happy ending. The fact that it follows the formula
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: is deceptively groundbreaking. There weren't a lot of depictions of
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: queer romance back then, and lesbian characters were often subject
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: to the barrier gay trope, i e. They often ended
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: up dead. As Carolina forty years old pointed out, is
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: one of the first mainstream films to show a positive
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: ending in a queer film. I think about how before
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: that a lot of the lesbian relationships in films ended
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: in death or someone going back in the closet, But
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: that was the first to show the couple potentially ending
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: up together and happy.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: Yes, some more quotes, This was the first movie I
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: saw that was fully queer. Another theme that emerged is
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: that the film is distinctly queer and it's aesthetic, it's writing,
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: and it's humor. For me, the thirty eight wrote, but
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: I'm a Cheerleader is special for its aesthetics. The high
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: camp esthetic both mock straight culture, think the scenes where
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: the kids are learning heterosexual roles, while creating a queer
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: aesthetic at the same time. While most of the film
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: is in the third person perspective, it starts out with
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: the audience looking through Megan's eyes, and she's checking out
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: bouncing boobs and looking up skirts of the other cheerleaders.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: As Marissa thirty seven pointed out, it's refreshing and funny,
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: but really unmistakably clear. I'm hard pressed to think of
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: such a blatant depiction of femme fem desire without thought
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: for the male gaze. Even more than twenty years later,
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: Megan and Graham's relationship is all about the two of them.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: There's no male gaze in play, there's no mention of
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: men at all. Films that don't cater to the male
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: gaze are broadly harder to find, and like in this case,
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: often point to the director being a woman. So yes,
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: the director, Jamie Babbitt, talked a bit about the complications
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: of trying to get the movie out there, including getting
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: the rating to be changed from NC seventeen to R.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: She talked about her experience in a two thousand and
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: six documentary this film is not yet rated, and how
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: it seemed that the industry was more harsh on the
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: film because of its queer content as well as showing
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: suggestive scenes around female sexuality. She went on to say
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: that she felt that the movie was discriminated against because
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: it was a gay film.
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: Uh yeah, So with all of that in mind, let's
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: jump into the plot. The movie begins with Megan played
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: by Natasha Leone. We all know her and love her,
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: an All American cheerleader who seems to have it all,
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: a jock boyfriend, religious parents who love her, and good friends.
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: Cameo of Michelle Williams here, but it turns out that
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: all her family and friends are concerned that she is
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: a lesbian. With an intervention with the help of counselor
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: from True Directions Mike played by RuPaul Charles. Yes, that
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: rue Paul. They all confront her with the evidence, including
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: her becoming a vegetarian, tofu and listening to Melissa Ethridge.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: Obviously.
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: Soon she is shipped off to the conversion camp of
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: True Directions, where she is introduced to the owner of
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: Mary Brown played by Kathy Moriarty, who is of like
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: the nineties fame. If you've ever watched any films in nineties,
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: you've seen her. The camp is a haven of all
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: things stereotypically headenormative, and gendered, with the aesthetics of the
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: blue and pink to represent the feminine masculine that is
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: expected of the respective. The camp has become the answer
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: to Megan's perceived identity crisis. Soon she meets the rest
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: of the campgoers, including Graham played by Cleia Duval. We
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: love her as well, Nineties icon Hillary played by Melanie
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: lake Lynsky, who we also love in so many things now, yes,
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: including The Last of Us and he got very excited.
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: Golf played by Dante Bosco. You will also know him
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: from the nineties film Rufio Rufeu. That was him, Yes, Wow,
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: come on, and then several others. On day one, Meghan
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: finally realizes that yes, she in fact is a homosexual,
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: and the whole crying scene happens and she begins her
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: journey to Quote recovery, of course, but throughout her time there,
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: she soon develops feelings for Graham, who shares those feelings
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: as well and soon begins a relationship. And while Megan
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: soon begins to embrace those feelings, Graham tries to deny
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: them as she's scared of the disapproval of her parents
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: her father. After a night of adventure with XX Gays
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: former campers of two Directions that realize now this is
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: not working. I want to be who I am, Graham
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: and Megan get closer, but soon they are caught and
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: must either do a simulation sexual dissimulation with Rock Mary's
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: son or be kicked out. Megan chooses to not do
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: the simulation and chooses Graham as she sees it, and
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: is soon kicked out, but Graham decides to stay and
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: graduate the program on her father's behes slash demand. Soon after,
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: Meghan with her new crew of XX Gays go back
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: to rescue their people, including Graham, and after doing a
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: like after being rejected the first time round, and then
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: doing a new charutine just for Graham. They run away together,
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: and then we also get to see Meghan's family join
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: a group of parents with gay children.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: It was very sweet, kind of.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: It's like alcoholic Anonymous, but for parents of gay children.
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: But I think it was like a support group, as
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: in like how to support their their lesbian daughters rather
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: than like, you know, how to deal with them. But yeah,
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: so that's essentially the entire pot. And yes, this is
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: one of those early two thousands ninety campy movies that
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: we would talk about with like a tongue in cheek
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: dialogue instens of humor that we would also talk about
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: for Bring it On, Ten Things I Hate About You,
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: which I've also made you watch in several of those movies.
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: Clear Duval was also in the faculty. Yes, yes, and
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: that's that same level of camp that we're seeing in
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: this except even higher. At one point, like critics really
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: called it like a watered down John Waters version of
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: a queer movie. So they had a lot to say
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: because they were not on board with the over the
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: top satirical level that we see. But obviously as held
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: out well for so many Yes, it is one note
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: sery typical identities of gay people, essentially what they're doing,
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: without any mention of any other queer people. There's no
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: real like bisexuality in this conversation. There's no conversations of trans.
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: Even though I think there.
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: May have been an underlying like character representation.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: We'll come back to that.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: So yeah, definitely, like it wasn't as bad as some
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: of the other movies, and I'm like, ah, this is
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: not aged well.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: I feel like they did so well in being satirical.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: It doesn't feel as offensive.
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: I say this as a straight person, so I can't
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: really say that, but in my in my like, I
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: didn't cringe as much.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think the as I said, I
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: was really worried about it, just because when you watch
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: something from the nineties, so much of our conversation has shifted,
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: and there was definitely like a language we don't use anymore,
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: but it was used back then, and it was used
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: in a way that was clearly meant to be like, oh,
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: it's bad, they're using it right, And it was like
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: there were some very strong, very strong stereotypes of like
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: how certain I mean the whole joke of like, oh,
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: she's a vegetarian and all. But then like there were
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: just some like showcasing of how gay men act and
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: stuff like that. But it was I feel like it
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: was meant to be played of like, yeah, we know
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: this is a stereotype, this is what you think how
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: gay people act. But sometimes I was like, oh, well,
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: I don't know, I feel about it.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: Right, Like are you joking or are you not joking?
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And of course, again Jamie Babbot has spoken quite
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: a bit about what she wanted to do and her
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: purpose in this and making sure that she made it
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: so ridiculous that it would be almost impossible to not
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: note that it's sarcasm, as well as the fact that, yeah,
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: the jokes were mainly more around heterosexual people than about
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: and and the gender norms than about the queer community.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: Like she wanted that flip very evident. I think she
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: did a good job. So with that, we're gonna talk
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: a little bit about the themes.
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: Obviously one of the biggest themes is I guess coming
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: out because that level of like her going on homosexual.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that entire it was so cringe.
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: But now that I'm replaying it in my head and
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: saying it out loud.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: It is quite funny.
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: It's one of those like moments of like, I'm sure
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: so many queer people will say that line in that context, yeah,
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: but I'm like, okay, that's ridiculous. But it was one
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: of the bigger conversations because each one of them have
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: the idea which is very like, even though it is
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: funny and ridiculous, it's true the root story that they
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: try to look into to talk about what caused you
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: to be gay, what caused you to be gay, which
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: was this level of like what the hell and having
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: that gender norms and stereotypes as a part of that
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: conversation as well, because we talk about Megan seeing when
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: her father lost her job and so her mother had
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: to be the breadwinner and that caused the route, and
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: that seeing her dad being emasculated made her like, yeah, no,
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: these are these are according to them, the conversion people
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: marry herself in their counseling moments and like making sure
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: that they blame something for their queerness or for their homosexuality.
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: We have that moment of him talking about seeing men
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: changing in locker rooms and that changed.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: Them and they're like, no, that's not good enough. You can't.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: That happens all the time.
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: That's too normal, Like, right, you can't, you can't beat
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: this toma some type of trauma.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: Another one is like you're you got molested.
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: Obviously that was your beginning, which is again that slip
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: on the head in that conversation of like, Okay, this
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: is not a thing. It's just more of like they
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: were always this way and or their sexuality is fluid
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: and it doesn't matter on this cut like ideal of
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: like where's the beginning, what's the root cause that we
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: need to dig out of you? So that was an
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: interesting conversation, and then we go to the people who
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: have truly accepted it and loving themselves and figuring this
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: out and realizing this is not a sin.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's one of those things. It reminded
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: me a lot of the recent episode we did a
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: Joey on bottoms, But it is one of those things
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: when I was watching and I was like, it's depressing
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: in the sense that this is true, like having this
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: sort of intervention where's your trauma, where where we're gonna
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: de root it and you're gonna be straight again, you're
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: gonna be normal, and that's what you should want, right,
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: But it was kind of funny to see it lambasted
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: like this, Yeah, where it's clearly ridiculous, as you said,
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: the director clearly like, no, this is so silly, and
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: it's I know we're going to talk about this in
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: a second, but I did really enjoy the accidental turning
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: on of everybody, like you're putting them in activity. It
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: is better like kind of sexual.
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: Right, Like this is more like, well, I'm attracted to this,
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: so let's watch this as they demonstrate.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: This, so let's go.
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: It was Yeah, it was hilarious.
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: Would that, of course become with the theme of the
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: stereotypes of queer people, Yes, he definitely wanted to play
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: that up. I will say I found it interesting and
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: noting that it matters. And I think we've come back
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: round in this conversation of like not outing people for
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: the sake of inclusivity, Like there's such a fine line
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: because we you know, like not too long ago, we
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: had the young actor people will like really upset that
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: he played a by character and everybody's like, he's straight,
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: he shouldn't be this character. And then he had to
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: be like, well, not that this matters, but I'm by,
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: but thanks for making me do this on the time
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: that wasn't my time, you know, and a big conversation
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: about like whether or not we have as an audience.
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: They'll write the question and make people come out, but
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: in this level, like because this is a nineteen ninety nine,
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: two thousand film. Since then, if I know, Natasha Leone
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: has like she's been a queer icon and has all
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: has been since this movie, if not before, I believe,
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: But I think she is for the most part straight.
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: I know that the dude who played Rock, who is
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: obviously the reason that Mary Brown wants this conversion therapy
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: and trying to convert him, which is why they make
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: him do the stimulation so much, I think, and he's like, nah, I'm.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: Good, but you do you like? But I know that
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: he is married with a wife and all that, not
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: that he's not. But I wonder what.
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: Those thoughts and thought process were like did they truly
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: look into seeing like having it heavily laid? I know
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: that as far as I know, Dante Bosco's kind of
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: in that same line, has a wife and family and
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: never really talked about being homosexual, So I wonder outside
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: of like RuPaul who like she Apparently they originally wanted
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: Arseniel Hall to play that character, but he turned it
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: down because he did not want to play a gay person.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: There's just like level and yeah.
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: Apparently they also had Rosario Dawson audition as Megan Bloomfield,
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: but they wanted a white person to represent all American
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: so she really had to fight too, she did. She
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: did talk about this having more people of color in
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: their set, like she had to fight with executives. She
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: said that essentially the entirety of this film was trying
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: to fight to have inclusion and having different people and
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: all of that, as well as being able to show
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: like kissing among same gender people without it being too
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: racy and being being stretched to NC seventeen for that.
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: I think like the things that she had to cut
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: out were like they had to like cut down the
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: makeout scenes that had to cut down where she touches
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: like over the clothes or something, and then like her
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: even mentioning that she had oral sex with one of them,
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: like had to cut that line out. It wasn't even
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: a scene, it was cutting that line out in order
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: to get the R rating, So the level of like
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: ridiculousness that she had to stretch in order to get
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: this movie made was beyond And like, if this was
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: about heterosexual people, which of course this wouldn't exist. There
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: are movies like this, like the campy movies with heterosexual
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: people with this level of sexuality that are also R
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: rated without any troubles. So it's kind of that levels.
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: So much discrimination in this but with that, yes, the
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: stereotypes of different queer people in here I'm coming back,
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: uh in here was so relevant. The one thing that
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: many of the people were talking about was during a
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: time where the stereotype that lesbians were all butchy. Yeah,
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: they had a cheerleader being the main role of being
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: the lesbian, and like in the and then in the
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: end the proud lesbian, the one proud lesbian out of
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: the group, and I found that. Yeah, They're like, yeah, yeah,
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: that was that whole point because she does say that,
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: but I'm a cheerleader, obviously, I'm not. I'm just really happy.
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: And to be fair when they said that, because the dude,
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: the boyfriend was like, you know, I think you're gay
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: because you don't like to kiss me.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: I'm like, uh, who would he was a terrible kisser.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: We have encountered two cases of terrible kissing within like
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: a week's true.
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: I was like, you know, like you definitely that's definitely
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: not the evidence, even though she is.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: But I'm like, uh.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I love how quick he was to be like
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: she must be. It can't be me.
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: And then also that kind of comes to the conversation
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: about like people thinking that's normal, because Michelle Williams like
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: I think it's fun.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, you don't.
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm like, unless you kissed like that too, like
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: you think that's m.
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: It was gross, Like it happens early on, and I
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: recoiled physically.
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: As you should, ass does she as does Megan. As
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: she starts wiping off her face. She's like, don't you
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: hate when they do that?
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: Yes?
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, so yeah, that's so like the stereotypes of
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: queer people.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: But then we have I thought one case was interesting.
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: We have jan who is fairly masculine, like they've they've
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: got a mustache and they have the mohawk and and
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: they you know, dressed down, and she ends up being
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: the one like but I'm straight. She's like, I do
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: like penises, like I don't understand why I'm here, just
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: because I look this way, y'all are assuming and then
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: a roopaul is like, yeah, but look at you, Kema Kima,
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: you're you're gay. And then I thought maybe this could
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: be a stretch, like does she represent trans trans people?
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: Like maybe she's a transman that still loves men like
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: which we've seen is unobvious. Yeah, that happens all the time,
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: that's the thing. What do we see trans women still
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: loving women? Like all these things, and so like this
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: kind of level of conversation even though she's not she
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: doesn't say she's trans, and it's not noted that she
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: is trans. I just wonder if that's like a representation
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: they wanted to throw in there without executives getting too like,
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: uh no, you can't have that type of representation representation
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: on here, Like I've done wondering, and I'm wondering. Maybe
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: there's an article out there, anybody, anybody, But I thought
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: that was an interesting addition to that. We have again
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: Rock who is the hyper sexual but like level of
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: I guess someone she's trying to make a masculine get
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: on the roof to fix it. Stop drinking with a
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: straw chug it, like all of these things.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: I was like, what is what's that? All of those levels.
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: We gotta love the fact that when they do go dancing,
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: the character of Andre, like you see him wearing the
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: boa and the very feminine outfits, which is fine, but like,
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: of course it's kind of like, yeah, this is the stereotype,
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: like over the top stereotype. We do have a nineties
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: goddess Julie Delpy in this role, Like she doesn't have
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: a name except her character's name is lipstick lesbian who's
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: at the bar gets megan to dance, which has a
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: lot of controversy because she made a lot of statements
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: pretty disparaging the statements when it comes to like inclusivity
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: in the film industry.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: So I'm like, why would you do that to yourself?
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: You areus But okay, but she was in the nineties
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: one of the Heyday women leads, so she had a
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: very quick cameo here as well being a lipstick lesbian,
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: which again I love, that's her.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: Character, which is a stereotype once again.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah. There were definitely some some extremes, which,
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: as we've said, I think it was meant to be, uh, extreme,
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: but kind of like the panicked, high scream run from Andrea,
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: I believe. And then yeah, because that's sort of the
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: whole thing they were doing was this very gendered, very
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: specific this is what men do, this is what women do, right,
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: So I do think it was purposefully diet, but I
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: was it was kind of like whoa, we're going for it.
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, coming back to they had the stereotypical gender norms,
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: like they really wanted to point out the ridiculousness of
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: what they found was normal and that that would equate
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: to making you heterosexual. Essentially women being able to scrub
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: and clean, vacuum, being taught to all of those things
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: to please the men, even to the point when they
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: were having the simulation and Mary Brown says, no, for
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: plays not necessary, the men need to get in and
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: get out, load load, drop his load and get out.
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: I was like, and Rocks like no even he was
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: like ah, because so that was like what just happened.
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: Like that was to the level of like she even
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: fed into that stereotype of like you're just supposed to
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: copulate and move on, like there's nothing it's not about
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: the women at all, don't worry about it. Again, the
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: chopping of the wood scene quite hilarious, as well as
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: the football scene, which I could have gone completely different.
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: I was waiting for like the high jinks to happen
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: when they tackled each other, and so I was very
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: very surprised.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So essentially, for anyone who hasn't seen this, it
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: is like the most the aesthetics of it are very blatant.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: It's like all pink here where the women are. The
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: men are at all blue, even their outfits. Yes, And
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: then they're learning these activities that are gender norms, so
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: like for women it is cleaning and cooking. I think
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: Mary Brown says something like by the time he gets home,
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: you're gonna have dinner ready, and he's tired and he
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: needs all this. And the men are learning like sports
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: and army, like calm.
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: Kind of cars, cars, and I like that they are
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: all fake cars. Like again, this is that aesthetic. It's
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: like it's not quite real and that good thing that
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: kind of gets into I guess this is not a
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: theme necessarily, but it's definitely the main plot, Like, it
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: is definitely the driving force. It is the scenario essentially,
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: and that is the conversion therapy and you know, we
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: have this conversation. We've actually had episodes about conversion therapy.
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: We've talked about the level of conversion therapy. We talked
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: about it as a because it is Christian nationalist ideal,
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: and this was like beginning with them and the whole
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: level of we can convert you by doing these things
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: and some of the things that they talk about when
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: we talk about it today and when we talk about
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: in this real context, it's really really dark and really
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: disturbing and abusive. But one of the things that they
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: use is the in electro shock therapy, which is not
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: which kind of just like a vibrator, yes, which one
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: of the lesbians use that because she says pain, I
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: love pain like and so she would often use it.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: At night.
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: Uh, And they they this top conversation of like, you
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: use this to stop your impure thoughts. We have the
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: main character, Megan, doing her prayers essentially her her sayings
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: and chance Christian chances. We're gonna say that way is
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: so that is what it is, sorry y'all. But in
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: order to try to stop these thoughts and impure thoughts,
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: in order to do that with again the electroshock therapy,
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: they put them when they sin or do something wrong,
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: they like hide them in the doghouse, they lock them
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: in the doghouse, which again were made obviously within the
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: movie to make light of it, but in actuality these
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: things did. There was a lot of accusations of these
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: things that set simulation that occurred. You know, they would
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: inundate them and brainwash them with porn and all of
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: these different things. They brought in prostitutes or sex workers
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: in order to convert men. Like there's so many levels
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: within all of these things. But of course again they're
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: trying to talk about the ridiculousness of this, of this
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: simulation of what the is this supposed to do, like
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: nothing except will cause more trauma and damage. What does
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: this do with these counseling with their parents except for
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: again more trauma and judgment outside of that as well
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: as like the cooking and cleaning, it teaches them to
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: lie and hide things better, to fake all of these
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: things again kind of like how Graham says, I'm attracted
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: to so and so now who is a dude, and
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: she's like, I have a crush on him, and they're like,
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: oh my god, it's working, and in actuality, no it's
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: not she's lying to get out of this because she's
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: so miserable.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, something that's up to me too. Is again, this
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: was trying to really showcase how ridiculous all of this is.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: But there were a lot of themes that we know
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: are true of like I'll kick you out of the
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: house if this doesn't work. I'm paying so much money
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: for this to work. You won't get anything from me
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: from their parents at these meetings, and that's one of
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: the reasons Graham was so at the end trying to
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: get it, to get her parents to at least believe
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: it that had worked. But that is a real thing,
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: like that kind of controlling holding that a house and
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: food and all of that over you, based on something
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: that I would agree the movie did a great job
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: of being like, this is pretty silly, right.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: Right, I think that's exactly that level of conversation.
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: We also have again, like with the family ties, all
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: of that, the level of trauma though we see, yeah,
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: Graham being told that that's what like, she's being like
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: her mother. Apparently apparently the mother had ran away with
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: a woman, is what it seemed to imply, and so
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: again that was her root story as well that this
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: is you know, if you did this, not only have
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: you lost your mother, you'll lose your father too, which
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: is what we see a lot. And then at the
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: end when they don't succumb to this ideal, they're just
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: kicked out and like you have nowhere to go by,
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: And I think that's that other conversation is like that.
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: We see that way too often. At least they made
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: this a happy ending with the parents really figuring it out. Okay,
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: we need to take at this as a different route.
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: Make it's parents that is everybody else we don't know,
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: because the entirety of this is the parents wanting to
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: fix their children. And then that includes Mary Brown, who
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: wants to fix her son but she's kind of given up,
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: I think, but trying to make him a part of
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: this community as well, and he just doesn't care. Nope,
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: I said dance is about But yeah, I think that's
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: this whole ideal of like okay, and again then early
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: two thousands, late nineties, conversion camps were coming into conversation
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: more and more and more because people were starting to.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: Be like, do you think this is good?
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: Wait?
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: Wait, of course, and they're still in practice today. Their
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: camps still open today, and we've talked about this. They
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: are still being funded by many of the fundamental Christians
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: and organizations, conservative organizations, and they are also the same
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: people who are trying to gut these policies for queer rights,
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: especially against so many including the trans people. I do
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: have that level of like, yeah, I think the newer Oh,
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: I don't know if we could.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: Have a new version of this type of comedy. I
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: think like.
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: Maybe we have age out of these comedies, meaning that
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: it's not surprising anymore so because this was revolutionary at
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: that time to take this and take this its a satire,
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: and then to bring it out and to allow for
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: public displays of affection for and I say public as
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: in like on film for same sex relationships. As well
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: as the fact that it's not as one of the quotes,
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: it's not enough a male gaze necessarily, as well as
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: the fact that this is not for heterosis people like
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: this is for the queer community point blank, with the
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: hopes that people starts questioning these things.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: I think the fact that it wasn't played necessarily for sexuality,
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: but it was still sexual, but also it wasn't while
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: it is a comedy that the relationships between them wasn't
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: the funny. It wasn't played for a life right that
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: they were attracted to each other, because like everybody at
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: this place that was supposed to be quote reformed, was
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: attracted to some one else of the sex out of
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: this place, and it like, there's comedy around that, but
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: it wasn't played. We're not laughing at them, right. So
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: I think that that was a very refreshing thing and
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: it just felt to me it was nice that it
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: was almost like and I know I'm coming way later,
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: but for me watching it now, it was nice. It
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: was almost like not a big deal in it.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: It was like, yeah, yeah, it's a rom com.
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: It was expected that they would be together, Like you
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: were rooting for them to be together.
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you wanted them to end up together.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: And they had their kind of like ups and downs,
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: but then they ended up together. And going back to
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: our conversation we had with we had about the term
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: mother the other day, I did think it was interesting
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: that there was sort of this like x X gay,
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: here's where you go, right if you've got nowhere else
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: to go, right?
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: Who Also, like I wanted to add this was one
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: of the best examples of relationships when they had a
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: moment of being like short with each other and then
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: like acknowledging it and then having Megan be like what
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: to see confrontation, but then to see them make up
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: and then just move on.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: I was like, I love that.
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: I love that they added that scene for the x
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: xkys Larry and Lloyd Morgan Gordon is who they were,
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: and like coming into seeing that from being chastised constantly
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: and then just telling each other to shut up. Essentially
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: Mary Brown telling everybody shut up that they disagreed with her,
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: and to seeing these two having a moment talking it
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: out very split second and then moving on. It's like, oh,
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: she's like what what. Oh, It's like oh, I like that.
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: It was just like short clip, but that was significant enough.
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: I was like, I like that they portrayed their well
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: relationship in a healthy manner, as opposed to what we
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: see oftentimes where it becomes all kinds of scattered and
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: they're like this is such a madic and da da
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: da da. But like we see them being like, no,
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: this is normalized, this is normal, This is a relationship,
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: and this is how you get through those tough times,
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: and in any relationship it can be both ways.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I liked that too, And it was especially
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: nice because there is a scene we didn't talk about
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: where Megan sees two of the guys kissing and like
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: it was like and reports them and it just felt
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: like such a betrayal, even if at this point she's
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: still trying to graduate and fit in and do all
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: of that. So it was nice to see sort of
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: her coming around to that camaraderie, right support. Yeah. I
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: thought that was an interesting thad too, because especially with
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: Graham being so like this right and then at the
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: end still wanting to graduate and Meghan being like, oh
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna go all in, really go for it. Uh yeah,
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: I really like it.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah I did too. I now know why this is a.
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: Cl classic in general, because I was like, uh, okay,
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: okay again, Like I said, at that point, when I
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: first I didn't think I got I said, I guess
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: I didn't watch.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: The preview well enough, or they did the previews.
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: I'm sure during that time they didn't put any content
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: that showed a relationship for same sex gender. I'm I'm
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: almost positive the previews would just have been her doing
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: that cheerleading thing and then her going into the hikings
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: and like, so I assumed.
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: It was just a cheerleading.
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, completely unbeknownst to me at that time. I'm like, Okay,
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: moving on, And I was like, yah, And I'm not
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: really sure why I didn't watch it, because obviously I
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: like to bring it on.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: I am honestly fascinated. I would love to hear from
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: listeners who saw this when it came out. But again,
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: going back to that conversation we have a joey about bottoms.
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: I'm kind of surprised this got made. Yeah, And when
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: I was watching it, I was like, and that made
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: me kind of sad, because yeah, it's like you said,
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: it's not explicit. There's nothing about it that is overly
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: sexualized or anything like that.
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's no nudity, that's barely any language. No, like
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: I think Scott rated in C. Seventeen.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: I think it's just because it's not from a male gaze,
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: because in the beginning, like you said, there is the
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: shot of cheerleaders, but it's from her gaze. And if
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: that was another movie that was from the male gaze,
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: that would not.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: Reach me through it all the time.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but because it was her and her being like,
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: oh maybe I like women. This is I mean, honestly, yeah,
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: it's kind of bizarre to me. It's really hard.
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: I honestly, I had assumed it was because PG thirteen
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: was rare. Yeah, but I mean it still existed, yeah,
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: I mean it started like it was created in nineteen
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: eighty four, so it's existed for over fifteen years. I
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: don't understand how anyway, that's the whole again. This is
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: that bigger conversation of like what, guess what and why?
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: Adding on, there was a musical in two thousand and
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: six based on but I'm a cheerleader, so I do
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: know that. Just an FYI, everyone, bring it on, say
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: two thousand films. I was in the same year. It
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: was PEG thirteen, and they actually talked about fingering legitimately,
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: and there's a scene where he's fingering her while she's
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: in a cheerleading post.
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: I was gonna say, I bet it's that there's discussion
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: hints of masturbation. I bet that's a big reason why.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: But I'm a cheerleader.
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: And there's so much language and like, bring it on.
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: I don't know if the F word is in there,
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: but I know they say all the other offensive words.
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's interesting. I actually didn't know it was
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: rated at are I would not have guessed. I wouldn't
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: have guessed that either.
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: But anyway, that's that bigger conversation two thousands and where
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: we are today, although that's still level, like outside of
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: like bottoms and all of that, we still see very
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: much the Bay or gay tropes a lot, a lot,
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: and then sexualization instead of just like relationships of gay
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: relationships or queer relationships, you know, like that's that's the
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: whole thing as well. But yeah, this movie was quite
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: uh refreshing. I'm sure I would have been in m
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: I may have known I would have been in shock
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: by this movie in two thousand, because you know, I
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: was very much in my touchways.
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: Even though he still.
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: Then I was like, this doesn't make sense because I've
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: definitely met, you know, queer people who were obviously like
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: they haven't always have been and they're happy or when
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: they like, immit that. So I knew that in two thousands,
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: So I don't know who knows I would have reacted.
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: I would have been I would have been quite surprised,
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: but I don't think I would have been like this
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: is gross or anything. I think I would have been like, oh,
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: it makes sense to me. It just makes sense to me.
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I can see that.
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: Because I did see. Oh I did see. I had
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: seen other movies where women kissed, and I remember it
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: being like, oh, it must be so sexual and wrong.
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: I was just kind of like, I don't know, just kissing.
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: My mind always went to, which is very like narcissistic
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: of me to be like, huh, that's not for me. Yeah,
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: am I like questioning why don't I find that attractive?
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: Like I'm actually sitting there going huh, I guess I don't.
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: I guess I'm not geting, like questioning whether or not
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: I find that attractive. It's this level instead of being
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: like that's gross, just internalizing it to myself, like attaching
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: it to my own reactions.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that makes sense. And I think like
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: the importance of the who's telling the story and the
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: gaze because the Cays like saying the gays. I like
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: the fact that it's not male gaze based is very
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: important because so many times popular media does really sexualize
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: not even lesbians, just women kissing.
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So I think for this movie, I would go
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: with that.
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: This is definitely much more geared towards women, like this
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: is a like feminist movie for that route of like
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: allowing their own conversations alone, their own like romance with
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: everybody else being supporting characters, which is lovely.
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: Yes, I enjoyed it. I'm glad we got to watch
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: it too. I was very excited when you suggested it.
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: That was very very excited.
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: Because just like you said, it was like the top ten,
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: Like why have you not watched this type of.
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: Movie consistently shows up? Yeah, and it's it's screening around
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: Atlanta right now.
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah they got it. Yeah I knew that. Yeah, hm
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: they can't iconic.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely absolutely Well listeners, If you have any thoughts
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: about this movie, if you saw it when it came
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: out and we're shocked or not shocked or whatever you thought,
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: please let us know. You can email us a stepda
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. We also have a
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: new email address for testing out. Either way it'll get
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: to us, but the new email address is hello at
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: stuff Oneever Told You dot com. You can find us
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast, or on Instagram and
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: TikTok at Stuff One Never Told You. We're also on YouTube,
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: We're on Tea Public, and we have a book you
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: can get wherever you get your books. Thanks as always,
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: start a super dusic Christina, executive Prouser Maya and our
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: contributor Joey, thank you and thanks to you for listening.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: Stuff I Never Told You is direction of I Heart Radio.
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: For more podcast from my heart Radio, you check out
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: the heart Radio app Apple Podcasts wherever you listen to
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: your favorite show