Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan: Anjette Lyles -Wife, Mother, Restaurant Owner, SERIAL KILLER

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Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan: Anjette Lyles -Wife, Mother, Restaurant Owner, SERIAL KILLER · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:01
Speaker 1: Quality dunts, but Joseph's gotten more being a Southerner. People
0:08
Speaker 1: will say, well, why do you continue to live in
0:12
Speaker 1: Oh There's any number of reasons. Climate, I love the people.
0:18
Speaker 1: I've had opportunities to live elsewhere. But one of the
0:23
Speaker 1: things that I think kind of anchors not just myself
0:26
Speaker 1: but many of us down here, it's food. And yeah,
0:32
Speaker 1: it's the food that's before you when you're eating, but
0:35
Speaker 1: it's also the fact that so much of our life
0:38
Speaker 1: is tied up in food. I guess many people could
0:41
Speaker 1: say that, but we make a I don't know, a
0:45
Speaker 1: big deal out of just the preparation. We're not big
0:51
Speaker 1: on excluding people from our kitchens while we're preparing things.
0:55
Speaker 1: Being from Louisiana in particular, you're taught from a young
0:59
Speaker 1: age how to cook, and in my opinion, I probably
1:03
Speaker 1: make one of the best gumbows around. I take a
1:05
Speaker 1: lot of pride in my room.
1:09
Speaker 2: But you know, food.
1:13
Speaker 1: Is a pathway. It's a pathway to deliver nutrition, it's
1:21
Speaker 1: a pathway to fellowship with those that you love, but
1:26
Speaker 1: many times it could be a pathway to death. I'm
1:33
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan and this is bodybags Dave. Unfortunately, you
1:41
Speaker 1: and I over the past I guess fourteen months, have
1:46
Speaker 1: spent more time than we care to mention at hospitals.
1:54
Speaker 1: And there was a time, and I remember from my
1:59
Speaker 1: childildhood where after church on Sundays we would go to
2:06
Speaker 1: eat at the hospital in the cafeteria and there was
2:10
Speaker 1: that sounds weird, but in our town the food at
2:12
Speaker 1: the hospital cafeteria was fantastic. But yeah, I know, right,
2:17
Speaker 1: but weird.
2:18
Speaker 2: It is weird.
2:20
Speaker 1: And I can't say that for all hospitals, but I
2:22
Speaker 1: think hospital food is notorious for being really bad, particularly
2:29
Speaker 1: if you're a patient, and if you're in a room
2:32
Speaker 1: with somebody that you're sitting by their bedside for hours
2:36
Speaker 1: and they're not eating their food, you begin to pick
2:39
Speaker 1: at their trade because you know you don't have time
2:42
Speaker 1: to leave and all those sort of things, and it's
2:47
Speaker 1: absolutely horrible. I don't know if too many ways you
2:49
Speaker 1: can actually improve it, because they tell you they're they're
2:52
Speaker 1: feeding you the food in order for you to feel better.
2:56
Speaker 1: I never really felt better after I eat the food.
2:59
Speaker 2: See, I thought you going to go with the after
3:01
Speaker 2: church going to the hospital for visitation. I didn't know
3:04
Speaker 2: it was because that was the nice restaurant, you know,
3:07
Speaker 2: very cool.
3:08
Speaker 1: My family wasn't big on visits. I'm sick.
3:11
Speaker 2: Well, you know, it's interesting how as you and I
3:14
Speaker 2: were looking at this story and it brought about other
3:18
Speaker 2: stories that we were talking about, which we will now
3:20
Speaker 2: include into our list of upcoming shows. But today's story
3:24
Speaker 2: of and Jet is that how you pronounced her name?
3:27
Speaker 2: And Jet Lyles? Jet? Yeah, I'd never seen that name before, yea.
3:31
Speaker 2: And anyway, and Jet Lyles is a woman who born
3:37
Speaker 2: in nineteen twenty five into an upper middle class family
3:43
Speaker 2: in Georgia, the Making area, and grows up normal, you know,
3:50
Speaker 2: or whatever we pass for normal in the South. And
3:55
Speaker 2: she's about twenty two years old when she meets and
3:58
Speaker 2: Mary's Ben, Ben is a World War Two veteran. They
4:05
Speaker 2: get married in nineteen forty seven, and the Lyles family
4:09
Speaker 2: owns a restaurant in downtown Macon, very popular family restaurant.
4:14
Speaker 2: And so Ben is there and he's now the head,
4:18
Speaker 2: you know, he's in charge of the restaurant. And he's
4:21
Speaker 2: been known to toss a few back adult beverages and
4:25
Speaker 2: to gamble a little bit. Now and Jet and Ben
4:32
Speaker 2: have not been married that long, and I know that
4:34
Speaker 2: back then things were a little different in how we
4:37
Speaker 2: went about getting married and having children at the ages
4:40
Speaker 2: you know. Now we would look at somebody in their
4:42
Speaker 2: early twenties having children as wow, they're young, you know,
4:44
Speaker 2: But back then it was not that uncommon. And so
4:48
Speaker 2: very early on in the relationship they have children. Their
4:52
Speaker 2: first daughter is born shortly after they get married, and
4:58
Speaker 2: after she is I'm guessing potty training hect I don't know,
5:02
Speaker 2: but she and Jett ends up working in the restaurant
5:06
Speaker 2: with Ben with her husband, and so they're working together,
5:10
Speaker 2: married a couple of years, and right as and Jet
5:15
Speaker 2: has their second child, Marcia, Ben decides to sell the restaurant,
5:21
Speaker 2: and Ben sells it for below market value and doesn't
5:25
Speaker 2: consult with a Jet before he does that. And the
5:30
Speaker 2: reason he does is because he's in Hawk to the
5:32
Speaker 2: to the Sharks. He's made some bad gambling decisions apparently,
5:37
Speaker 2: And we're not casting as versions on the man's character.
5:40
Speaker 2: It's just the reality of what happened, apparently. So Ben
5:44
Speaker 2: sells the family style restaurant, pays the gambling debt, and
5:48
Speaker 2: Jet is mad, and so here we go. It is
5:53
Speaker 2: now December nineteen fifty one. Ben starts to get very
5:58
Speaker 2: very sick, very fast. He ends up in the hospital.
6:01
Speaker 2: Doctors don't know what's going on, can't figure out why
6:04
Speaker 2: is this man sick. A month or so after he's
6:07
Speaker 2: in the hospital, January twenty fifth, nineteen fifty two, Ben
6:12
Speaker 2: Lyles dies. Now, Joe, you're a history guy, and I'm
6:18
Speaker 2: feel confident in asking you this. Was it an uncommon
6:22
Speaker 2: occurrence for somebody to die in the hospital in the
6:25
Speaker 2: early fifties and have doctors not be able to figure
6:28
Speaker 2: out what killed them.
6:30
Speaker 1: I don't know how common it was. I don't think that.
6:34
Speaker 1: And listen, this the information we're about to get off
6:40
Speaker 1: into is when you begin to think about the diagnostic
6:45
Speaker 1: testing that we have today heir to what they had
6:49
Speaker 1: back then. And this is what has always fascinated me
6:54
Speaker 1: about the Lyles cases. It doesn't require it doesn't require
7:03
Speaker 1: you to even draw blood or to take urine to
7:08
Speaker 1: run through a toxicology screen. There is symptomology that manifests
7:16
Speaker 1: itself externally on these people's bodies. And so, you know,
7:20
Speaker 1: you look at an individual as a physician and pretty
7:26
Speaker 1: quickly you begin to kind of try to understand, well,
7:32
Speaker 1: first off, why are they having this gastro intestinal discomfort,
7:37
Speaker 1: can't keep any food down, and they're having severe diarrhea,
7:43
Speaker 1: terrible abdominal pain. They've got these very non specific rashes
7:49
Speaker 1: all over their body. There's change in their pallor, which
7:55
Speaker 1: is a term. It's kind of an old term, but physicians,
8:00
Speaker 1: even pathologists will use it, and it's the color of
8:02
Speaker 1: the skin. They kind of current turned like a gray color.
8:08
Speaker 1: You'll have people that are in talk about historic, historic perspective.
8:15
Speaker 1: There's an old term, and I love this term. They'd
8:17
Speaker 1: say they were adult. Adult means that you're kind of
8:21
Speaker 1: acting like a lunatic. And it's it's all part of
8:28
Speaker 1: the symptomology of a bigger picture, particularly when you begin
8:34
Speaker 1: to get these in clusters. One person though, I can
8:40
Speaker 1: see early on because this man died in the early
8:44
Speaker 1: fifties and he would only be the first in a succession.
8:51
Speaker 2: Of deaths and you don't know what's coming. So just
8:54
Speaker 2: in an isolated incident, you've got a fairly young man, yeah,
8:58
Speaker 2: and you know, married like kids, and all of a sudden,
9:03
Speaker 2: very quick illness, I mean dies in d goes into
9:05
Speaker 2: the hospital in December with this. As you mentioned, a
9:08
Speaker 2: lot of different symptoms and is dead a month later.
9:12
Speaker 2: It's not a long time to really diagnose what's going on,
9:15
Speaker 2: because don't in the hospital when you're dealing with this,
9:18
Speaker 2: I mean, we're looking at it with hindsight. Would they
9:21
Speaker 2: be looking at each symptom alone and saying, well, this
9:27
Speaker 2: can bring on this type of gastro intestinal distress, and
9:32
Speaker 2: this can bring on a rash, this can bring on
9:35
Speaker 2: a fever. I mean, is that how they're looking at
9:37
Speaker 2: this then, or are they looking at it in totality?
9:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're they're trying to you know, they're what they're
9:42
Speaker 1: doing is they're they're checking off a list and they
9:46
Speaker 1: have a list that you know, in the kind of
9:47
Speaker 1: cluster cluster these things together, and they'll say, well, he's
9:52
Speaker 1: having these. I think one of the most striking things
9:56
Speaker 1: is probably going to be the skin responses when you
10:01
Speaker 1: begin to see this bloody rash that comes up, you know,
10:07
Speaker 1: all over people. Uh. Sometimes you'll even see changes, you know,
10:12
Speaker 1: in the palms of the hands, that sort of thing,
10:16
Speaker 1: and skin the skin will begin to present uh with
10:23
Speaker 1: they some some people that have these presentations on their skin, DAVE.
10:29
Speaker 1: In a clinical standpoint, clinical perspective, they'll have to be
10:32
Speaker 1: strapped to the bed so they don't scratch themselves.
10:35
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness.
10:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's a horrific kind of kind of uh presentation.
10:42
Speaker 2: Is that something that still goes on now?
10:44
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, And you know, I'll be very specific here. Uh,
10:49
Speaker 1: I don't feel like I'm bearing the lead, but we're
10:51
Speaker 1: talking about arsenic and rs think is is has been
10:57
Speaker 1: known to man, you know, for I don't know, three
11:00
Speaker 1: four thousand years, and it's a naturally occurring standalone element.
11:06
Speaker 1: It's on the elemental chart. It's something that has been mined.
11:10
Speaker 1: And as a matter of fact, I think it may
11:12
Speaker 1: have been the Romans that used it to blend it
11:16
Speaker 1: with copper in order to strengthen copper and because they
11:22
Speaker 1: could mine it in one of their territories, you know,
11:25
Speaker 1: if they came across it. But even back then, Dave,
11:27
Speaker 1: they they recognized that the people that were working in
11:31
Speaker 1: the minds were presenting with with symptomology and they would die.
11:43
Speaker 1: They would die. And even the Romans, you know, we
11:46
Speaker 1: think of them in a very brutal sense, they shut
11:49
Speaker 1: the minds. Now, they were like, we've got to find
11:52
Speaker 1: something else in order to blend with copper to make
11:56
Speaker 1: it stronger and so they walked away from it. It
12:00
Speaker 1: has it's been known to be a toxic substance forever,
12:04
Speaker 1: and it's not just in like the Near East or Europe.
12:11
Speaker 1: I'm always fascinated by this because from you know, you're
12:17
Speaker 1: taking a long view of this, the stuffs had, the
12:19
Speaker 1: same thing is happening in the Far East as well.
12:21
Speaker 1: The Chinese knew about it and they have, uh you know,
12:26
Speaker 1: the Chinese are very impressive with their written history. It
12:29
Speaker 1: goes back much further, I think than even Western history
12:34
Speaker 1: in many circumstances as far as how they wrote things down,
12:38
Speaker 1: and they've got you know, they've got examples of arsenic
12:41
Speaker 1: poisoning going back, you know, a thousand years, thousands of years,
12:48
Speaker 1: and so it's been around for a long time, and
12:51
Speaker 1: it's it's something that has been used in industry over
12:55
Speaker 1: the years, but primarily primarily arsenic has been used in
13:03
Speaker 1: the most recent sense as a pesticide. David, I think
13:22
Speaker 1: that probably if someone wanted to kill somebody in the
13:29
Speaker 1: most stealthy way possible so that they could try to
13:34
Speaker 1: get away with it. Poison for many I think is
13:40
Speaker 1: at the top of the list. You know, poisoners are
13:43
Speaker 1: interesting compared to all other killers out there. There was
13:50
Speaker 1: a there was something I read not too long ago
13:54
Speaker 1: talking about the personality of someone that prefers to poison
14:00
Speaker 1: and one of the lines and it was they come
14:02
Speaker 1: to you with a smile, but they leave death in
14:07
Speaker 1: their wake, and you never see them coming. And it's
14:11
Speaker 1: the stealth nature of it. The trick, I think, is
14:15
Speaker 1: how do you get access to an individual to apply
14:20
Speaker 1: something that's going to be toxic in their system? And
14:23
Speaker 1: with a jad Lyles even though Ben had sold this restaurant,
14:28
Speaker 1: and by the way, Ben's mama worked there as well
14:33
Speaker 1: in the wake of Ben's death, and Jet kept working
14:38
Speaker 1: at the restaurant, and by all accounts, she was a
14:43
Speaker 1: real floor show if you will. She's kind of bombastic.
14:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you've got a big personality and likes to be.
14:52
Speaker 1: Big personality, likes to flirt. She's got platinum blonde hair.
14:57
Speaker 1: Think of kind of a you are set in Marilyn Monroe.
15:02
Speaker 1: You know how the women would kind of I think
15:04
Speaker 1: they called it bobbing their hair, and it was it
15:07
Speaker 1: was short, but it was like when you saw it
15:10
Speaker 1: was striking. You know, she was a striking And they
15:14
Speaker 1: talked about her where she would warmly greet everybody that
15:18
Speaker 1: came into the restaurant, throw their arms, throw arms around
15:22
Speaker 1: them and hug them and sit and just engage engage
15:28
Speaker 1: with people. You know what's really fascinating about the Lyles Restaurant, Dave,
15:32
Speaker 1: is that if you ever go to Macon's kind of
15:36
Speaker 1: an interesting little town. I'm a fan of it because
15:39
Speaker 1: Votis Reading and the Almond Brothers, but making in and
15:44
Speaker 1: of itself, aside from its musical heritage, it's an interesting
15:48
Speaker 1: little town that's tried to rebound several times. But going
15:53
Speaker 1: down the main street, and literally the main street is
15:58
Speaker 1: the name of one of my favorite Doctor Seuss books
16:01
Speaker 1: when I was a little is Mulberry Street. I think
16:05
Speaker 1: the name of the book it was called I can't
16:07
Speaker 1: believe it, or it happened on Mulberry Street or something
16:10
Speaker 1: like that. But on Mulberry Street sat the Lyles Restaurant,
16:15
Speaker 1: and guests take a guess where it was positioned across
16:18
Speaker 1: the street from no clue the county courthouse. So back then,
16:29
Speaker 1: during the fifties, during the fifties, there was no such
16:33
Speaker 1: thing as drive through food. McDonald's was at some point
16:38
Speaker 1: in time was just starting up in some place that
16:41
Speaker 1: was far far away from making Georgia. So if you
16:47
Speaker 1: were going to go out to eat, and back then,
16:49
Speaker 1: going out to eat was a big deal. Across the
16:54
Speaker 1: street from the courthouse, when they'd go on break, the judges,
16:58
Speaker 1: the lawyers, probably even defendants, they come in to Anget's
17:04
Speaker 1: restaurant and they would they would eat. And we've got
17:10
Speaker 1: a couple of these places around where we live, Dave.
17:12
Speaker 1: They're generally carthouse cafe. Yeah, very well that they're called
17:18
Speaker 1: what's the term. I'm probably gonna get a meat in three,
17:20
Speaker 1: I think that's what it's. Where you get you get
17:23
Speaker 1: a meat of some kind, whether it's cube steak, you know,
17:27
Speaker 1: country fried steak, mashed potatoes, lima beans and black eyed
17:31
Speaker 1: peas or collars or something like that. So you get
17:34
Speaker 1: one big hunk of fried protein, and then you get
17:37
Speaker 1: vegetables along with it. And these are still prevalent around
17:41
Speaker 1: these parts. I can't speak to the rest of it.
17:43
Speaker 2: And I still put those vegetables on the side of
17:45
Speaker 2: my plate next to the napkins, and nobody can see
17:47
Speaker 2: I didn't eat them. I hate those things. But you
17:50
Speaker 2: know you mentioned that that and Jack continued working, you know,
17:55
Speaker 2: at the restaurant after Ben's passing, and she's there with
17:59
Speaker 2: her mother in law. And by the way, remember now
18:01
Speaker 2: her mother in law Julia Lyles, Ben's mom. Well that's
18:05
Speaker 2: the grandmother t and Jet's little girls, you know. So
18:10
Speaker 2: there's a real connection here now and Jet. After the
18:13
Speaker 2: death of Ben, and Jet moves in with her parents
18:17
Speaker 2: for a couple of years while she continues working and
18:20
Speaker 2: saving her money. Now, remember Ben sold the restaurant and
18:27
Speaker 2: sold it fronder market value. And Jet was very clever
18:30
Speaker 2: in that she saved money and learned all she could
18:34
Speaker 2: about the restaurant business. And after a couple of years
18:38
Speaker 2: she buys it back. And Jet buys back. This is
18:42
Speaker 2: not a common thing to have happen with women in
18:46
Speaker 2: the South in the fifties. This is not your normal thing.
18:49
Speaker 2: And she's very cagy in that. As soon as she does.
18:53
Speaker 2: You know, the first thing, she hires back Ben's mom,
18:57
Speaker 2: her mother in law, Julia, because she wanted to attract
19:00
Speaker 2: some of the old Lyle's restaurant crowd that remembered Julia.
19:04
Speaker 2: So she brings her back and there they are now
19:08
Speaker 2: and Jet and Julia working together in the restaurant and
19:11
Speaker 2: it's everything's going fine. People really like her. You mentioned
19:15
Speaker 2: that she's got that big personality, always hugging people when
19:17
Speaker 2: they come in and saying hello. And after a jet
19:21
Speaker 2: is in control of the restaurant, she meets a guy
19:26
Speaker 2: named Buddy Gabbert. Now Buddy was a pilot and he
19:31
Speaker 2: had been going there for a while, to the restaurant,
19:34
Speaker 2: and he and a jet strike up a friendship and
19:38
Speaker 2: end up, you know, I guess casually dating. I'm sure
19:42
Speaker 2: she was very busy with work and the girls. But
19:45
Speaker 2: she announces, and jet does they're going on vacation. She
19:48
Speaker 2: and Buddy are going to take a vacation and when
19:50
Speaker 2: she comes back.
19:51
Speaker 1: Wait, hang on back during that time too, she's not
19:54
Speaker 1: married to him. This would have been very scandalous.
19:56
Speaker 2: Way I was going to ask you how that How
19:58
Speaker 2: you thought that played out, because I didn't want to
20:02
Speaker 2: blow past it. But I thought, am I the one
20:03
Speaker 2: thinking it's a big deal?
20:05
Speaker 1: No? How did they position the Yeah they're not married,
20:08
Speaker 1: they're going to Yeah, I can tell you the board
20:10
Speaker 1: of deacons gonna be talking about this.
20:13
Speaker 2: Well, they go on this vacation, and I can hear
20:17
Speaker 2: the preamble is, well, we've got separate hotel rooms and
20:21
Speaker 2: separate every you know, but we're going together. But anyway
20:24
Speaker 2: you look at it. When they came back from vacation,
20:26
Speaker 2: they announced, Hey, we got married. So now Buddy and
20:31
Speaker 2: and Jet are married. So here we are. We're now
20:34
Speaker 2: in nineteen fifty five. Now remember her husband Ben sold
20:40
Speaker 2: the restaurant to settle a gambling debt in nineteen fifty one.
20:44
Speaker 2: He then dies after a month long illness between December
20:48
Speaker 2: and January and nineteen fifty two. So we're a couple
20:51
Speaker 2: of years down the road. She's bought the restaurant back
20:54
Speaker 2: and her mom, her mother in law, works there with her.
20:57
Speaker 2: She gets married to Buddy Gabbert. Well that's in July
21:01
Speaker 2: of nineteen fifty five when they go on vacation and
21:04
Speaker 2: return married. A couple of months later October nineteen fifty five,
21:09
Speaker 2: Buddy has minor surgery. Oh I need to add this.
21:12
Speaker 2: Buddy is a pilot and he's gone a lot. He
21:14
Speaker 2: travels a lot, and so there were some rumors flying
21:17
Speaker 2: around town about a Jet and her flirty personality. Okay,
21:23
Speaker 2: I'll leave it at that. You guys fill in the blanks.
21:25
Speaker 2: Buddy comes back and he has his minor surgery in October,
21:28
Speaker 2: and when he goes home to convalesce after the surgery,
21:33
Speaker 2: he develops a fever and then a rash that covers
21:38
Speaker 2: his entire body. Joe, this is October nineteen fifty five,
21:42
Speaker 2: and doctors they can't figure out what's going on. I'm
21:47
Speaker 2: going to ask you a very specific question. Sure, in
21:51
Speaker 2: nineteen fifty five, what would they have been testing for
21:54
Speaker 2: with those types of symptoms fever and rash?
21:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, fever and rash. Back then, they would have thought.
22:01
Speaker 1: The first thing they would have thought about is probably
22:03
Speaker 1: exposure to something, something that is going to present with
22:08
Speaker 1: I don't know, for lack of better terms, some kind
22:10
Speaker 1: of dermatitis. Now, the trick is to try to understand
22:15
Speaker 1: is this something like most people have heard of a
22:22
Speaker 1: there's a term called contact dermatitis, Like if you touch
22:25
Speaker 1: something okay with you know, your hand, or you brush
22:30
Speaker 1: up against something, you'll get kind of a focal area
22:33
Speaker 1: of your body that will be impacted by whatever agent
22:36
Speaker 1: it is you've come in contact with, and sometimes it
22:39
Speaker 1: can spread. That's the first thing you know, because I
22:45
Speaker 1: still this is a parlism. My grandmother one of her
22:49
Speaker 1: favorite things to say back then, is if you if
22:52
Speaker 1: you had a rash or you know, you would you
22:56
Speaker 1: know there was something going on with you. She'd say, boy,
22:59
Speaker 1: what have you gotten in to? You know so, and
23:02
Speaker 1: so that's that's one of the things. You know, you're
23:04
Speaker 1: kind of thinking about here as from a diagnostic standpoint,
23:09
Speaker 1: But you have to account for the fever, all right.
23:12
Speaker 1: Just because you have a contact dermatitis doesn't mean that
23:16
Speaker 1: you're going to be presenting in a fibrill state. It's
23:20
Speaker 1: just it's not going to not going to Those two
23:24
Speaker 1: things don't match up. So then you turn to, well,
23:28
Speaker 1: is this some kind of internal internal thing that's going
23:32
Speaker 1: on and it's manifesting externally now along with this, if
23:37
Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken, he again, like his predecessor, the first husband,
23:44
Speaker 1: had horrible gastro intestinal discomfort and it's they would have
23:51
Speaker 1: diagnosed it as gastro entritis back then. And again another
23:55
Speaker 1: it's very kind of nonspecific. A lot of the symptom
24:00
Speaker 1: homology with this is non specific. But when you're maintaining
24:07
Speaker 1: in in that state and you're declining and they're hanging
24:12
Speaker 1: ivs on you, and they've got everybody and their brother
24:15
Speaker 1: coming in to take a look at you. It's not
24:18
Speaker 1: surprising that they would miss common signs that might be
24:22
Speaker 1: associated with arson arsen.
24:24
Speaker 2: Well, they're not thinking that, right, I mean, you're not
24:25
Speaker 2: a nobody.
24:26
Speaker 1: I mean, nobody's thinking that when it's it's always I
24:30
Speaker 1: try to cut medical staff a lot of slack because
24:37
Speaker 1: there are people that present at hospitals all the time
24:40
Speaker 1: and they will suddenly die. Clinicians are not Clinicians are
24:47
Speaker 1: not looking at a patient and thinking with a forensic mind.
24:53
Speaker 1: They're they're thinking with a clinician's mind, with a healer's mind,
24:59
Speaker 1: what do I have to do to get this person
25:01
Speaker 1: from point A to point B? And so they're going
25:06
Speaker 1: down a checklist. Trust me, arsenic is not popping up
25:10
Speaker 1: on the radar. That's just not something that you think.
25:15
Speaker 1: It's the old adage about you know, you might have
25:18
Speaker 1: that one person that when they hear hoof beats they
25:22
Speaker 1: think camel as opposed to horses. But they're an outlier,
25:27
Speaker 1: to say the very least from a diagnostic standpoint. One
25:31
Speaker 1: of the interesting things about and Jet is that she
25:38
Speaker 1: made a fuss over everybody in her family that gets sick.
25:45
Speaker 1: And when you kind of dig into the mind of
25:50
Speaker 1: someone that might be poisoning someone. You want to get
25:56
Speaker 1: that kind of and particularly if you're going for the
25:58
Speaker 1: sympathy vote. I'll look at her. They just have gotten married,
26:04
Speaker 1: they're just starting their life. She's got these she's a widow,
26:09
Speaker 1: she's got these two little girls that lost their daddy.
26:12
Speaker 1: She's taking care of her former husband's mother in law.
26:17
Speaker 1: What this lady, this lady is she's going to be
26:23
Speaker 1: declared a saint, right And so every day when any
26:28
Speaker 1: of these family members wind up presenting with any kind
26:33
Speaker 1: of symptomology, she's there. She's there at their bedside. Dave. Now,
26:38
Speaker 1: when you put that in perspective, that's chilling, because at
26:44
Speaker 1: the end of the day, having a jet Lyles adjacent
26:50
Speaker 1: to your bedside was kind of the equivalent of having
26:56
Speaker 1: the specter of death with their scythe hanging over their shoes,
27:00
Speaker 1: older sitting. You know, when you read the Bible, there's
27:17
Speaker 1: one there's one individual in a Bible that always comes
27:23
Speaker 1: to mind when you're going through hard times, and that's Job.
27:27
Speaker 1: You don't want to sit there and say I'm just
27:30
Speaker 1: like Job. Nobody can be just like Job. You would
27:33
Speaker 1: not wish that, well, I don't know some folks might
27:36
Speaker 1: wish that on their worst enemy. I wouldn't when you
27:39
Speaker 1: think about and it's, you know, part of our vernacular
27:42
Speaker 1: we say the trials of I'm going through the trials
27:44
Speaker 1: of job. A lot of people don't understand that. But
27:47
Speaker 1: when you're surrounded by family members that are dying left
27:53
Speaker 1: and right and you're still trying to struggle, I think
27:58
Speaker 1: spiritual standpoint, any folks will look up to the heavens
28:01
Speaker 1: and shake their fists and say, you know, why are
28:05
Speaker 1: you allowing this to happen to me? And wasn't the
28:08
Speaker 1: case with a jet Lyaeleso, She continued to Sally Forth Dave,
28:14
Speaker 1: and you know, put on the put on the face
28:18
Speaker 1: of being a strong independent woman running the restaurant, taking
28:22
Speaker 1: care of her family. And now you've got second second husband.
28:27
Speaker 1: That's you know, one foot in the grave and one
28:29
Speaker 1: foot on a banana peel.
28:31
Speaker 2: Well, you know, it's interesting that as we look at this,
28:34
Speaker 2: you know, it's very condenced period of time, you know,
28:36
Speaker 2: from getting married in nineteen forty seven to having children,
28:42
Speaker 2: the restaurant, selling, the restaurant, husband dies. I mean, there's
28:45
Speaker 2: a lot going on in this woman's life in a
28:48
Speaker 2: very very short window of time, and I think about
28:51
Speaker 2: those two girls being raised in that environment of what
28:53
Speaker 2: it must have been like. But after the death, y'all
28:58
Speaker 2: know that. I mean, obviously Buddy died after a very
29:02
Speaker 2: brief illness. Now he had that surgery in October of
29:06
Speaker 2: nineteen fifty five and home convalescing by the end of
29:09
Speaker 2: the month. So he's sick in November, and on December
29:13
Speaker 2: second Buddy dies. So he's got a five or six
29:16
Speaker 2: week recovery period and death.
29:20
Speaker 1: So let me just interject to Buddy's death was miserable.
29:26
Speaker 1: It was miserable. And this is you remember Dave how
29:29
Speaker 1: was saying second ago, being tied to the bed. Yeah
29:32
Speaker 1: that in his particular instance, they had to restrain his arms.
29:38
Speaker 2: Can you imagine because of the rash?
29:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And you know it's bad enough. You know,
29:45
Speaker 1: if you're if you've got stomach discomfort, which he would
29:48
Speaker 1: have had tremendous stomach discomfort coming out, as they say,
29:53
Speaker 1: coming out of both ends, anything that you ingest, you
29:56
Speaker 1: would and plush your your itching all over your What
30:01
Speaker 1: a horrible way. And this this misery lasted for this
30:05
Speaker 1: particular period of time. But my understanding that a jet
30:09
Speaker 1: was the one constant in this universe. She was always
30:14
Speaker 1: coming to take care of him. And well, yes, kind
30:17
Speaker 1: of a portent of things to come. Buddy didn't eat
30:22
Speaker 1: hospital food. He ate food from the restaurant.
30:26
Speaker 2: Right, we know, ninety days after they get married, think
30:30
Speaker 2: about that, Joe you're talking about. They go on a
30:33
Speaker 2: vacation and come back married in July, and ninety days later, Buddy,
30:38
Speaker 2: you know, has this minor surgery that turns into death
30:41
Speaker 2: by December twod that's a that is a whirl wind
30:46
Speaker 2: of highs and lows. So after Buddy's death and Jet
30:54
Speaker 2: changes her name back to Lyles, that was kind of
30:56
Speaker 2: interesting to me. It really did make me one her. Well,
31:02
Speaker 2: anyway you look at it, she did it. And she
31:05
Speaker 2: also collected some insurance money and in town the size
31:08
Speaker 2: of making when you're running a restaurant in downtown where
31:11
Speaker 2: you meet everybody and talk to everybody. Well, and Jet
31:14
Speaker 2: bought herself a brand new Cadillac and bought a new
31:18
Speaker 2: house and moved her mother in law, Julia, into the
31:22
Speaker 2: home with her. I'll take care of the client. Yes,
31:26
Speaker 2: look at this woman, she's taking care of everybody. And
31:29
Speaker 2: now Julia the grandma gets to be there to help
31:31
Speaker 2: take care of the children. This is what we just
31:34
Speaker 2: need to go ahead and make a statue of a
31:36
Speaker 2: Jet right now and put it downtown and you know.
31:38
Speaker 1: On mulber Street.
31:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, right there. And well, the thing is is that
31:43
Speaker 2: after Julia, the mother in law, moves in with and Jet,
31:47
Speaker 2: they didn't get along. And I'm thinking, now, I mean,
31:52
Speaker 2: here we are. It's a lot much different time than
31:54
Speaker 2: it was in the nineteen fifties. Not getting along with
31:57
Speaker 2: your mother in law seems like like there could be
32:01
Speaker 2: a fix, you know, move her out, but she doesn't.
32:04
Speaker 2: Instead of trying to rectify the situation, and Jet tries
32:09
Speaker 2: to get Julia to write out a new will. You
32:12
Speaker 2: need a will, Julia, you need a will. Now, I'm
32:15
Speaker 2: gonna be honest with you. Joe, somebody who's got a
32:18
Speaker 2: couple of dead people in their recent past is telling
32:20
Speaker 2: you to get a will. Yeah, I'm thinking there's got
32:25
Speaker 2: to be an apartment somewhere I can rent, you know.
32:30
Speaker 1: Or maybe you have a pause and say, wow, and
32:33
Speaker 1: Jet's really proactive. Yeah, it all depends on how you
32:36
Speaker 1: look at it.
32:38
Speaker 2: Wow. Well there was also you know, there are a
32:41
Speaker 2: couple of things being talked about about and Jet at
32:44
Speaker 2: the hospital. At the restaurant, the workers said that, you know,
32:47
Speaker 2: they were a little weirded out by her some black magic,
32:51
Speaker 2: voodoo type stuff. And in a town the size of
32:55
Speaker 2: Making Georgia, if you're talking to black candles when nobody
32:58
Speaker 2: you think nobody's looking, that's going to get a I
33:00
Speaker 2: mean it will.
33:01
Speaker 1: And let me tell you one more thing about that.
33:03
Speaker 1: The employees, and this really plays a big part in this.
33:07
Speaker 1: The employees at this restaurant that work behind the counter,
33:11
Speaker 1: we're all African American, Okay, so generationally, generationally better than
33:21
Speaker 1: let's say, the white folks out there, they understood kind
33:27
Speaker 1: of this ominous thing that's going on with her in
33:30
Speaker 1: black black candles because they've seen it. They've seen it,
33:34
Speaker 1: they talk about it. It's not something that the white
33:37
Speaker 1: community necessarily talks about. In the African American community, though,
33:41
Speaker 1: this is something that's real. And I experienced this in
33:44
Speaker 1: New Orleans because down there you actually do have a
33:48
Speaker 1: voodoo culture that is real. Wow, it doesn't matter if
33:51
Speaker 1: you believe in it or not. They believe in it.
33:53
Speaker 1: You also have Santa Rio as well, and a lot
33:55
Speaker 1: of this stuff comes about the Caribbean. It goes back
33:58
Speaker 1: generations even you know, during the slave era and this
34:01
Speaker 1: sort of thing when things are brought over and practiced.
34:06
Speaker 1: You know, all you have to do is just go
34:08
Speaker 1: to the go to the east of Making and wind
34:12
Speaker 1: up in Savannah and midnight in the garden of Good
34:14
Speaker 1: and Evil. And you know, uh, voodoo played played a
34:19
Speaker 1: large part in that case. And someday we're going to
34:22
Speaker 1: cover that case.
34:23
Speaker 2: Actually witch trial. You know, the sailing witch trials had Titchuba.
34:28
Speaker 1: The exactly and she was from the Islands, I think
34:32
Speaker 1: that's the way they referred to her as. And she
34:34
Speaker 1: was a servant.
34:35
Speaker 2: Wow.
34:36
Speaker 1: So you know, if you're if you're an African American
34:40
Speaker 1: and it's in the fifties in the Deep South, because
34:43
Speaker 1: you are in the heap South and you are dependent
34:46
Speaker 1: upon the white folks to provide your living, you're going
34:51
Speaker 1: to keep your mouth shut because you never know how
34:55
Speaker 1: it's going to wind up for you. You know you're going
34:57
Speaker 1: to be out on the bricks and you're not going
34:59
Speaker 1: to have a job any more. But can you imagine
35:01
Speaker 1: you're sitting there in this woman, this bombastic woman with
35:07
Speaker 1: the blonde hair who's driving a caddy is in the
35:13
Speaker 1: back room and she's got a black candle and she
35:16
Speaker 1: lights it and they'll see her whispering to the candle.
35:22
Speaker 1: And that's enough to terrify anybody. And let me tell
35:24
Speaker 1: you one more thing. They have proof in their eyes
35:27
Speaker 1: because she's driving a big white Cadillac through town. You
35:34
Speaker 1: might not know this day about making, but making Georgia.
35:39
Speaker 1: The main industry in making Georgia back then were textile
35:43
Speaker 1: mills and cotton, and so people that lived in making.
35:51
Speaker 1: You had very few people that were really wealthy. Most people,
35:54
Speaker 1: if they had a car, would come to town and
35:57
Speaker 1: they would be driving an old truck or an old
36:01
Speaker 1: beat up car. You've got this bombastic woman with stark
36:05
Speaker 1: white hair that's riding around in a caddie. You're gonna
36:11
Speaker 1: she's gonna draw attention the people that knew about kind
36:15
Speaker 1: of the voodoo element here that are watching her. Can
36:19
Speaker 1: you imagine it's really easy to put two and two together.
36:22
Speaker 1: You think that because of her whispering to the candle,
36:27
Speaker 1: because of her involvement in this, she's now experiencing wealth.
36:32
Speaker 1: She's able to This is a woman in the fifties
36:35
Speaker 1: that is recovering from the loss of a husband. Two
36:38
Speaker 1: husbands and all of a sudden, these great riches fall
36:42
Speaker 1: into her lap. Well, you know, to me, this is
36:46
Speaker 1: like being at the crossroads in Mississippi and somebody signed
36:50
Speaker 1: to deal.
36:50
Speaker 2: With the devil. Wow. I actually did look up Little
36:57
Speaker 2: Richard Tenneman came from Making Joy and worked at a
37:00
Speaker 2: restaurant in nightclub there. It was called tiktoks I think,
37:04
Speaker 2: or tick tacked. But anyway, I was. I was in
37:07
Speaker 2: my back of my head when you were talking about
37:08
Speaker 2: how and Jet actually had employed African Americans. You know,
37:14
Speaker 2: I thought, well, I wonder if little Richard was there.
37:16
Speaker 2: You know, it wasn't, but I was looking it up
37:18
Speaker 2: just in case. But Joe, after the death of her
37:21
Speaker 2: second husband and moving in her mother in law, Julia
37:24
Speaker 2: into her home, they don't get along, and all of
37:27
Speaker 2: a sudden, Julia becomes sick. It's now nineteen fifty seven.
37:32
Speaker 2: She went and Jet did the entire year of nineteen
37:35
Speaker 2: fifty six without anyone close to her dying that we're
37:38
Speaker 2: aware of. And I'm sure she, you know, was celebrating, Oh,
37:42
Speaker 2: bad times were over. Well maybe that's what people thought,
37:45
Speaker 2: because in nineteen fifty seven, Julia becomes ill. She's hospitalized
37:49
Speaker 2: and dies September twenty ninth, and nobody knows why, don't
37:53
Speaker 2: know what happened. She got sick and died. Holy moly, So, Joe,
38:00
Speaker 2: as they're doing what they had done previously, doctors don't
38:02
Speaker 2: mean they're got to think at some point somebody's going
38:05
Speaker 2: to look at this and go, hey man, we got
38:07
Speaker 2: three adults dead in what a five six year period
38:12
Speaker 2: of time. Who's what's the common denominator? I mean, is
38:17
Speaker 2: nobody looking at this? Well, they did when Marcia got sick.
38:24
Speaker 2: Little Marchia is nine years old. It's March nineteen fifty
38:27
Speaker 2: eight and a Jett's daughter gets sick in the restaurant.
38:35
Speaker 2: It is so sad she's hospitalized with hallucinations and her
38:42
Speaker 2: kidneys shutting down. What does that tell a doctor at
38:46
Speaker 2: that point in time?
38:47
Speaker 1: Joe, Well, it didn't tell them arsenic for whatever reason.
38:54
Speaker 1: I can't understand. I think from when and again, you
39:00
Speaker 1: don't know how many of these physicians had the history
39:04
Speaker 1: to rely upon too. We're kind of looking at this
39:08
Speaker 1: in our rearview mirror. So you've got this succession of husbands,
39:12
Speaker 1: You've got a mother in law. Was it the same
39:16
Speaker 1: clinical staff that had treated the other people to put
39:19
Speaker 1: two and two together. The one central figure though, Dave
39:23
Speaker 1: in this that I still cannot wrap my brain around
39:26
Speaker 1: is corner. How could the corner make a determination because
39:33
Speaker 1: they did a corner what they used to refer to
39:35
Speaker 1: as a corner's in quest?
39:37
Speaker 2: What actually is I've heard the term used many times.
39:39
Speaker 1: It's kind of a formalized term to mean that the
39:43
Speaker 1: corner is doing an investigation. I think that it's it's
39:47
Speaker 1: kind of a media thing that they used to do. Oh,
39:49
Speaker 1: the corners involved, Well, yeah, anybody that dies particularly acutely,
39:54
Speaker 1: there's going to be an inquest by the corner. But
39:57
Speaker 1: you know, corners also many people don't understand this. They
40:01
Speaker 1: can panel a corner's jury. They actually paneled a corner's
40:05
Speaker 1: jury with Bonnie and Clyde. Yeah, I know, right, didn't
40:10
Speaker 1: know that. For those who didn't know that, I just
40:11
Speaker 1: saw the expressional day's space and you have a jury
40:15
Speaker 1: of people that are impaneled because corner does have judicial authority.
40:20
Speaker 1: And so going back, that's another story for another time.
40:25
Speaker 1: They're very powerful. People really don't understand that. Next to
40:30
Speaker 1: the sheriff. Matter of fact, in many places, if the
40:33
Speaker 1: sheriff is removed from office, the corner replaces the sheriff.
40:37
Speaker 2: You know what quick funny story Alabama several years ago
40:41
Speaker 2: in Walker County, Alabama, home city of Jasper, You know
40:46
Speaker 2: how we get those calls that come in scam calls
40:50
Speaker 2: and where somebody there was a scam for a while
40:51
Speaker 2: where people somebody would call you and say, you know,
40:54
Speaker 2: you've got a warrant for your arrest and you have
40:57
Speaker 2: to pay five hundred dollars or whatever and do it
40:59
Speaker 2: right now, or we're gonna We're knocking on your door.
41:01
Speaker 2: We're coming to get you. If you don't do it
41:03
Speaker 2: right now, we're gonna arrest you. And the flim Flammers
41:06
Speaker 2: actually made the mistake of calling the county sheriff, the
41:10
Speaker 2: Walker County sheriff, and he gets on the phone and
41:13
Speaker 2: he says, well, I'll tell you what, son, go ahead
41:16
Speaker 2: and pick up the county corner because he's the only
41:18
Speaker 2: one that can arrest me.
41:19
Speaker 1: Yep, that's right, yeah, we and I don't again. Going
41:24
Speaker 1: far field. In New Orleans, the sheriff, who has to
41:29
Speaker 1: be served with papers cannot serve themselves. Corner investigator would
41:33
Speaker 1: go over and serve the sheriff papers. Wow in civil
41:36
Speaker 1: civil things and all that sort of thing. So wow, yeah.
41:40
Speaker 1: But the one combon denominator is that the bib County corner,
41:44
Speaker 1: because this is in making, is located in Bibb County, Georgia.
41:50
Speaker 1: One famous person we know in common that is from
41:53
Speaker 1: Bibb County is NaNs Grace, by the way, And so
41:57
Speaker 1: they he would rule these that it was just some
42:02
Speaker 1: kind of non specific natural disease that had gotten them,
42:08
Speaker 1: and I think like gastro into ritis was at the
42:10
Speaker 1: top of the list, you know, throughout all of this,
42:14
Speaker 1: And I think back to the husband, the second husband
42:18
Speaker 1: being tied to the bed, and I'm thinking, dude, how
42:23
Speaker 1: can you look at this and not not want to
42:26
Speaker 1: delve further if for no other reason, not necessarily you're
42:30
Speaker 1: thinking homicide. You're thinking, my god, is this guy a
42:33
Speaker 1: public health risk? Because I'm thinking if he's exposed to something,
42:37
Speaker 1: and I'm a servant of the people, I don't want
42:39
Speaker 1: everybody else to be, you know, exposed to this as well.
42:45
Speaker 1: And then you have the mother in law that dies
42:49
Speaker 1: again pretty quickly. And one of the things with arsenic
42:53
Speaker 1: Dave is that it screws up the rhythm of your
42:57
Speaker 1: heart as well. And so you've got someone like Julia
43:01
Speaker 1: who's an advanced age by this point in tom, it's
43:05
Speaker 1: not necessarily surprising that she died. If she's if she
43:09
Speaker 1: is exposed to arsenic, then in in her in her world,
43:16
Speaker 1: her death might happen relatively quicker because she's already compromised physically,
43:20
Speaker 1: just simply based on age. Okay, but when you get
43:24
Speaker 1: to Marcia and this precious little girl, how do you
43:30
Speaker 1: how do you actually explain that?
43:32
Speaker 2: Man? Well, it was actually an anonymous letter. They didn't
43:37
Speaker 2: have it explained. They didn't have an answer. All the
43:41
Speaker 2: medical people, i'm sure were talking about it, but it
43:43
Speaker 2: actually came down to an anonymous letter from an employee
43:46
Speaker 2: of the restaurant that actually had his or her fill
43:50
Speaker 2: and actually sent a letter to the coroner. And in
43:54
Speaker 2: that letter, the employee noted that a Jett kept poison
44:01
Speaker 2: at the restaurant. Not uncommon to have ant poison in
44:03
Speaker 2: a restaurant. However, there's arsenic in this ant poison terry
44:08
Speaker 2: and terror ant poison, yep. And so that was what
44:12
Speaker 2: the employee wrote to the corner, and the corner then went, hey,
44:16
Speaker 2: wait a minute, now, would that be, like, I'm not
44:19
Speaker 2: knocking anyone. I don't know what it would take. I
44:22
Speaker 2: mean to come to that conclusion independently, But at that
44:26
Speaker 2: point it was the anonymous letter that actually went ding
44:29
Speaker 2: ding ding light is on.
44:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you begin to string these together. And here's
44:33
Speaker 1: another little insight, you know, and I kind of mentioned
44:36
Speaker 1: this earlier. The person that wrote this letter was an
44:40
Speaker 1: African American lady that worked in the restaurant. She didn't
44:44
Speaker 1: sign her name to it. And here's why because if
44:48
Speaker 1: she had. If she had, then they would have dismissed her.
44:55
Speaker 1: Because she's an African American lady in the nineteen fifties
44:59
Speaker 1: making these accusations toward a prominent white lady. And so
45:09
Speaker 1: this is a brilliant move on the part. I can
45:11
Speaker 1: only imagine how terrified she was because she's born witness
45:15
Speaker 1: to the black candle thing. She's actually knows that the
45:24
Speaker 1: she understands the kind of the timeline here. She's born
45:29
Speaker 1: witness to all of these people dying. You begin to
45:32
Speaker 1: think about those kids too. You know. It's not one
45:38
Speaker 1: of my favorite restaurants that I've was actually here in Jacksonville.
45:41
Speaker 1: It's no longer open. It was owned by Greek family
45:45
Speaker 1: and it had been around for years and years. It
45:48
Speaker 1: was on the square in Jacksonville. It was a pizza joint,
45:52
Speaker 1: but they also served meeting three. The thing that was
45:55
Speaker 1: so charming to me about the restaurant is that they
45:57
Speaker 1: brought all of their children to work with them. They
46:00
Speaker 1: even had play pens in there with toys. It didn't
46:03
Speaker 1: bother me at all. As a matter of fact, it
46:05
Speaker 1: was kind of endearing. The grandmother was always in the
46:08
Speaker 1: restaurant and she was speaking in Greek, and they were
46:12
Speaker 1: just really sweet people. I missed that restaurant. They're always there.
46:16
Speaker 1: They're part of the fabric of this environment. So these
46:20
Speaker 1: kitchen workers would have seen those two little girls in
46:23
Speaker 1: this environment. You know, they get out of school, they
46:26
Speaker 1: come to the restaurant. Julia is there in the restaurant
46:30
Speaker 1: every single day. So they have a different perspective than
46:35
Speaker 1: somebody that's just kind of coming and going. Even if
46:37
Speaker 1: the corner which he probably did, had come in to
46:40
Speaker 1: eat meals there. And what this led to was they
46:45
Speaker 1: had to get orders of exhamation and go back and
46:51
Speaker 1: disenter these bodies.
46:53
Speaker 2: And that's not an easy thing to do, is it.
46:55
Speaker 1: No it's not. Yeah, and judges are notorious for not
46:59
Speaker 1: wanting to crack up graves. It is if you've never
47:03
Speaker 1: been involved in it, folks, it is you're moving heaven
47:08
Speaker 1: and hell in order to convince this judge that is
47:12
Speaker 1: in the community's best interest and the legal system's best
47:16
Speaker 1: interest to crack open a grave and take out a body.
47:20
Speaker 1: First off, most people that are, you know, not around
47:23
Speaker 1: the dead like I am, they find it abhorrent, okay,
47:28
Speaker 1: and it's something that's that's not done. You know. You
47:33
Speaker 1: think about again, going back in time, you think about
47:36
Speaker 1: Tammy Dabell. They had to have her exhumed, and we've
47:40
Speaker 1: had a number of cases like these. But David, the
47:42
Speaker 1: thing about it is with arsenic poisoning, the one thing
47:47
Speaker 1: that you look for in arsenic poisoning is you're going
47:51
Speaker 1: to do sampling from multiple locations in the body. Even
47:56
Speaker 1: after a body has been embalmed, you can still pick
48:00
Speaker 1: up on it. Because it's a heavy metal. It will
48:03
Speaker 1: actually go into You'll find it in the hair, You'll
48:07
Speaker 1: find it in the nails.
48:08
Speaker 2: And one of the answer in the fingernail test, yeah.
48:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so you look at that and the nails
48:14
Speaker 1: themselves developed these weird kind of horizontal lines on them
48:23
Speaker 1: that you know, and if your clinician, you don't think
48:26
Speaker 1: about that. I've been in the hospital a couple of
48:29
Speaker 1: times in my life. I don't ever remember a physician
48:31
Speaker 1: or a nurse saying, let me see your fingernails. It's
48:34
Speaker 1: just like, well, here, you know, here, doc, look on
48:36
Speaker 1: my fingers. It's not something they commonly do. But Dave,
48:41
Speaker 1: as a result of the exhamation, they were able to
48:45
Speaker 1: go to a jet's home and not only did they
48:48
Speaker 1: have this and it's called tarot ant poisoning companies still
48:53
Speaker 1: in existence today. Back then they were putting arsenic in
49:02
Speaker 1: the ant poisoning and for fifty years now arsenic is foreboden.
49:07
Speaker 1: But back then it was everywhere day, it was everywhere.
49:10
Speaker 1: It was part of pest control. You had rats in
49:12
Speaker 1: the barn, you put out arsenic, you had ants, You
49:16
Speaker 1: just sprinkle the taro around, they come and eat it,
49:18
Speaker 1: put a little sugar with it, and you got dead
49:21
Speaker 1: ants at this point in time. And so they went
49:24
Speaker 1: to her home. Not only did they find more of
49:27
Speaker 1: the ant poison at home, guess what else they found, Well,
49:30
Speaker 1: they found all kinds of objects connected with voodoo there
49:34
Speaker 1: as well inside of her home. The way this case
49:39
Speaker 1: kind of spun out was it was a real show
49:45
Speaker 1: in the courtroom, Dave. You had multiple people in this
49:48
Speaker 1: case because of Lyle's restaurant that had to recuse themselves
49:54
Speaker 1: because they knew an jail, they knew her, and they
49:57
Speaker 1: couldn't you know, they couldn't involve themselves in case. Can
50:01
Speaker 1: you imagine, I mean, the sheriff, The sheriff ate regularly there,
50:04
Speaker 1: the da ate regularly there. The judges, one of whom
50:09
Speaker 1: was distantly related to a Jet, had to accuse themself.
50:14
Speaker 1: He was a state district judge said I can't be
50:16
Speaker 1: a part of this because she's kin to me.
50:19
Speaker 2: Dave, Right, that's just unbelievable. But when everything is said
50:23
Speaker 2: and done, Joe, I'm still shocked that Marcia, at nine
50:29
Speaker 2: years old, was dead. And a month after that when
50:33
Speaker 2: they it took a month. And this is kind of
50:36
Speaker 2: quick in my book, because after Marsh's passing the letter,
50:40
Speaker 2: anonymous letter arrives, they get the exhamation and when and
50:44
Speaker 2: Jet is actually in the hospital being treated for vericas veins,
50:47
Speaker 2: which I don't know what they did back then to
50:49
Speaker 2: treat vericas veins. But she was in the hospital for
50:52
Speaker 2: that and that's where they arrested her. They arrested and
50:56
Speaker 2: Jet at the hospital and charged her with murder.
51:00
Speaker 1: And I think she made one of her initial court
51:03
Speaker 1: appearances in a wheelchair. You know, we talking about trying
51:06
Speaker 1: to trying to get sympathy vote here. But here's what's fascinating, Dave.
51:11
Speaker 1: And Jet was actually tried by jury of her peers
51:17
Speaker 1: and she was found guilty. She had the death penalty
51:25
Speaker 1: imposed upon her. And I think back to those workers
51:29
Speaker 1: in that restaurant. If one of them had committed a
51:35
Speaker 1: crime like this, and I'm thinking one of these African
51:36
Speaker 1: American women that worked there, the local constabulary, the judicial system,
51:42
Speaker 1: and the governor himself would not have given it a
51:46
Speaker 1: second thought of putting them on death row. But the
51:50
Speaker 1: governor famously said that that he's not going to be
51:56
Speaker 1: a part of a white woman being executed because I
51:59
Speaker 1: got to tell you, regardless of how you feel about
52:03
Speaker 1: the death penalty, she deserved it. I Mean, when you
52:07
Speaker 1: think about the pain and suffering that people went through,
52:10
Speaker 1: and the exposure as well, when can you imagine the
52:13
Speaker 1: chill that would go up and down your spine you're thinking,
52:16
Speaker 1: I ate there on a regular basis. This woman is
52:19
Speaker 1: poisoning the food she's taken at the hospital to continue
52:22
Speaker 1: the poisoning. How many other people were exposed well in
52:27
Speaker 1: her world. She winds up going to prison and at
52:31
Speaker 1: some point in time, Dave and this is fascinating, they
52:35
Speaker 1: declare her to be insane. And Georgia had this infamous
52:42
Speaker 1: hospital for the criminally insane that was located in Millersville,
52:46
Speaker 1: and Militville, Georgia is like the main interest, the main industry.
52:51
Speaker 1: There used to be prisons. There were multiple prisons in
52:54
Speaker 1: the town, and they had this place that was notorious
52:58
Speaker 1: to treat the criminally insane. As a matter of fact,
53:00
Speaker 1: when we were kids, you know, a slur that you
53:03
Speaker 1: could direct at somebody as a child would be, man,
53:06
Speaker 1: you need to be in Millageville, and you just kind
53:08
Speaker 1: of understood that in Louisiana was you need to be
53:12
Speaker 1: in Jackson. And so you know, those things creep up.
53:16
Speaker 1: But and yet wound up dying in this place in Militiville,
53:24
Speaker 1: Georgia in nineteen seventy seven. Interestingly enough, the last prison
53:31
Speaker 1: job she had she worked in the kitchen. I'm Joseph
53:39
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan and this is body backed