Latest / Project Candor: Ordinary People. Unexpected Stories / Don't Fight. Sail On. with Dr. John Reaves | Ship's Log #29

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Don't Fight. Sail On. with Dr. John Reaves | Ship's Log #29 · Project Candor: Ordinary People. Unexpected Stories

• 0:03
  John Reaves: The most important promotion you will ever earn is the one no one can give you.
• 0:10
  John Reaves: It begins the moment you stop waiting to be chosen and start choosing your own growth.
• 0:18
  John Reaves: I wrote this book and I really hope it resonates with other people, but my biggest thing is to help people to stop chasing validation and start choosing their intention of growth.
• 0:30
  Jeanne: Hello and welcome aboard Project Candor.
• 0:33
  Jeanne: Today we welcome John Reaves.
• 0:36
  Jeanne: John A.
• 0:37
  Jeanne: Reaves, PhD, is a corporate executive and the author of The Real Promotion, a book written for professionals who are ready to stop waiting for permission and start defining success for themselves.
• 0:49
  Jeanne: After years of chasing credentials, titles, and recognition, John came to an uncomfortable realization the issue isn't how hard he was working, it was who he had allowed to define progress for him.
• 1:02
  Jeanne: His work centers on one powerful idea.
• 1:05
  Jeanne: The most important promotion you'll ever receive is the one you choose for yourself.
• 1:10
  Jeanne: Hi, John.
• 1:11
  Jeanne: Welcome aboard our little ship, Project Cander.
• 1:15
  John Reaves: Well, hello.
• 1:15
  John Reaves: And you know what?
• 1:16
  John Reaves: Because of you reading my bio and general information, I don't think I need to say anything else.
• 1:22
  John Reaves: That said it all.
• 1:25
  Jeanne: You did all of that.
• 1:26
  Jeanne: And I I really like what you stand for.
• 1:28
  Jeanne: I like to be able to give my I gave myself promotion.
• 1:31
  Jeanne: Actually, I didn't tell you this earlier, but I've become an admiral.
• 1:36
  Jeanne: Did you not promote myself?
• 1:38
  Jeanne: All right.
• 1:38
  Jeanne: I'm the admiral of the unexpected.
• 1:41
  Jeanne: I love it too.
• 1:42
  Jeanne: I gave it to myself.
• 1:44
  Jeanne: Of course, I'm a pirate at heart, so hey, we can do whatever we want.
• 1:48
  John Reaves: Yeah, I well, I've always been a giant believer of, and especially in the last several years, you know, you need to really stop waiting for people to advance your cause, look in the mirror, come up with a plan, and advance your own.
• 2:04
  Jeanne: I love that.
• 2:05
  Jeanne: Yes, I agree.
• 2:07
  Jeanne: Let's do it.
• 2:08
  Jeanne: What else can we conquer?
• 2:10
  John Reaves: Absolutely.
• 2:11
  John Reaves: Absolutely.
• 2:12
  Jeanne: Well, so the way the show, we're gonna start off with some interview questions for you before we play our two truths in a lie.
• 2:18
  Jeanne: So are you ready to get started?
• 2:20
  John Reaves: I am so ready.
• 2:21
  John Reaves: I hope you're ready too.
• 2:22
  Jeanne: Yes, I am.
• 2:23
  Jeanne: We want to find out a lot about you, and I'm ready to ask.
• 2:27
  John Reaves: Nice.
• 2:28
  Jeanne: Okay.
• 2:29
  Jeanne: So you described spending years doing everything right, building the resume, staying late, checking every box, and still feeling stuck.
• 2:38
  Jeanne: When did you realize something deeper needed to change?
• 2:42
  John Reaves: Well, I don't think it was necessarily a specific day and time.
• 2:47
  John Reaves: I think it was probably a period of time.
• 2:51
  John Reaves: And I would say what happened was back in probably the late early 2000s, I left a job that I really loved, but it was burning me out.
• 3:02
  John Reaves: And I thought it was time to sort of switch the curve.
• 3:05
  John Reaves: You know, I had the title, had the salary, had a whole lot of different things.
• 3:10
  John Reaves: But for me, I just was at a point in my life where I said, this can't be all to life, you know, you know, working a job so that you can pay a mortgage and have a title, have an office.
• 3:23
  John Reaves: And I just came to the realization I wanted so much more.
• 3:26
  John Reaves: But I think the other thing is I've come up with a number of um work colleagues over the sort of decades, and a bunch of them are no longer with us because they either died or have significant impediments with their health because they were so busy chasing titles and not chasing their health like I was.
• 3:47
  John Reaves: So I've always believed that health should always be your literally number one first promotion.
• 3:55
  John Reaves: And at least for me, while I was sort of in the chase, I always made sure I was taking care of my physical and my mental health, and my peers were not.
• 4:04
  John Reaves: And unfortunately, they're no longer with us today.
• 4:07
  John Reaves: And I'm sure some of them would have said, Oh my God, oh my God, why didn't I come to that realization too to just stop and look in the mirror and make some changes?
• 4:18
  Jeanne: Yeah, that's profound.
• 4:19
  Jeanne: Uh, because it's like when you walk away from what you did, I mean, did you have an umbrella?
• 4:26
  Jeanne: Did you just decide I can't take it anymore?
• 4:28
  Jeanne: And what was that old movie?
• 4:31
  Jeanne: I'm mad as hell and I can't take it anymore.
• 4:34
  John Reaves: Well, you know, it wasn't exactly like that.
• 4:37
  John Reaves: It was again, because it was a wonderful job and the environment was, you know, pretty good as well.
• 4:42
  John Reaves: But what I was doing, I it wasn't where I wanted to see myself sign off for the rest of my professional career.
• 4:49
  John Reaves: And some people will spend 20, 30, and 40 years in a row and then realize one day, oh my God, why did I spend so much time at a job?
• 4:58
  John Reaves: And I did not want that to be me.
• 5:01
  John Reaves: And I will tell you, when I made the pronouncement when I came home, my wife said, You're doing what?
• 5:07
  John Reaves: Yes, I mean, we had a little bit of money saved and all that good stuff.
• 5:13
  John Reaves: But for me, it was more about time to look at my career differently, time to stop feeling like the world's gonna come to an end if I miss a day at work, or feeling like my worth was being determined by others.
• 5:32
  John Reaves: And that's probably the big thing that a lot of us do when we're in these corporate roles.
• 5:37
  John Reaves: We're so busy trying to appease everybody, we forget about ourselves.
• 5:43
  Jeanne: Absolutely true.
• 5:44
  Jeanne: You're always meeting a mark, right?
• 5:46
  Jeanne: You have your evaluation, and this year you're supposed to meet this mark, and then you work, you work, work to get it, and then the next year it's a little bit higher.
• 5:57
  Jeanne: And it was impossible to make the first time.
• 6:00
  John Reaves: And it's interesting.
• 6:02
  John Reaves: I was just talking to a friend a few hours ago, and he had mentioned that he is between jobs, and I asked him, Well, how are you feeling?
• 6:11
  John Reaves: How you, you know, how's things going?
• 6:13
  John Reaves: And he said, believe it or not, I'm okay.
• 6:16
  John Reaves: He said, I just am tired of chasing titles.
• 6:21
  John Reaves: And I said to him, Do you know the book I just recently wrote?
• 6:25
  John Reaves: It's like, what?
• 6:27
  John Reaves: So there are a lot of us that are out there that are saying, enough is enough.
• 6:33
  John Reaves: And don't get me wrong, you know, there are a number of wonderful companies where people live to go to work and they're doing amazing work and so forth, but then there are a number of other companies out there, not so much.
• 6:46
  John Reaves: And when I think about like one of the, I think one of the things that happened to me many years ago, I've been laid off three times in my professional career.
• 6:55
  John Reaves: And over a 30-plus-year career, well, you potentially are going to experience that.
• 7:02
  John Reaves: And it was really my third layoff that probably was the most uh resonating with me because I was so ready.
• 7:12
  John Reaves: You're probably saying, What?
• 7:14
  John Reaves: Who's ready to get laid off?
• 7:16
  John Reaves: Well, when I think about the first few times, like the first time was very early in my career, I knew it was going to happen.
• 7:22
  John Reaves: I don't even really count that one because I got, you know, severance.
• 7:26
  John Reaves: I started a new job the following week.
• 7:28
  John Reaves: So I really don't know.
• 7:30
  John Reaves: Yeah.
• 7:30
  John Reaves: The second time That was lucky though.
• 7:33
  John Reaves: Yeah, exactly.
• 7:34
  John Reaves: The second one, on the other hand, was a little bit more interesting where I was in a different state.
• 7:40
  John Reaves: I was in a job that I really loved, but it was one of those things where the company wanted to go in a different direction, including purchasing another company.
• 7:51
  John Reaves: And I found myself saying, well, now what?
• 7:54
  John Reaves: Do I, you know, flip the script and do something different?
• 7:57
  John Reaves: So I ultimately moved and um returned back to a place where I was most comfortable for, sort of regrouped and then jumped right back in and got another opportunity.
• 8:07
  John Reaves: The third time was just last year.
• 8:10
  John Reaves: And out of all of the times that it transpired, the last time was probably bittersweet to me because I knew it was coming because of the positioning of the company.
• 8:21
  John Reaves: I also had mentally stopped preparing.
• 8:24
  John Reaves: It's one thing to be prepared where, you know, you have things in the bank and so forth.
• 8:28
  John Reaves: But that mental piece, I will tell you, is far more crippling and difficult to manage through if you're not ready for it.
• 8:36
  John Reaves: But I was.
• 8:37
  John Reaves: And I, you know, took that time and said, you know what?
• 8:40
  John Reaves: I want to do something a little bit different.
• 8:42
  John Reaves: I don't want to just jump into another opportunity.
• 8:45
  John Reaves: I want to do a job that I get excited of waking up.
• 8:48
  John Reaves: That's not only about the salary, but it's about, you know, what you're doing and the people that you're impacting.
• 8:54
  John Reaves: And I was so fortunate to find an opportunity like that fairly quickly.
• 8:59
  John Reaves: So for me, I would just say that when you decide that you're not going to chase titles, that you're going to solely focus on the work and your journey and how you respond to people and how you show up when you are at work, you do start to think of things differently.
• 9:17
  John Reaves: So if a layoff happens, it's just not that big of a deal.
• 9:20
  John Reaves: Even though a lot of us will say, well, I like to pay my mortgage on time and I like to be able to provide for my family.
• 9:28
  John Reaves: Don't get me wrong, that's all important and critical.
• 9:31
  Jeanne: Definitely.
• 9:32
  John Reaves: You can't support and provide for folk if you're sick or dead, right?
• 9:37
  Jeanne: That's very true, too.
• 9:39
  John Reaves: And I think a lot of people forget about that.
• 9:41
  John Reaves: They get so caught up in this maze, they're not really thinking through who they are.
• 9:47
  John Reaves: And one of the things that I always wanted to make sure that I wasn't losing myself in the process.
• 9:53
  John Reaves: In fact, one of my next projects that I plan to do in the future is really kind of talk about what happens to you when you're in the workplace, and most importantly, what becomes of you when you leave.
• 10:06
  John Reaves: So that's that's a novel day and a novel time.
• 10:10
  John Reaves: But for this current title, it really is about the professional, whether you are brand new in your career, middle, or even on the decline to retirement, really taking that um, you know, look in the mirror, doing some reflecting, and really kind of determining are you where you want to be?
• 10:29
  John Reaves: And if you're waiting for your company to get you there, good luck with that.
• 10:33
  Jeanne: Yeah.
• 10:34
  Jeanne: Yeah.
• 10:34
  Jeanne: What is that thing they talk about when you're on your deathbed?
• 10:37
  Jeanne: Nobody ever goes back and says, Boy, I missed that meeting.
• 10:40
  Jeanne: I wish I had gone.
• 10:43
  John Reaves: I know.
• 10:44
  Jeanne: I'm not thinking about that.
• 10:46
  Jeanne: So what you're saying goes right into my next question.
• 10:49
  Jeanne: You've talked about shifting your orientation.
• 10:52
  Jeanne: So, what did you have to unlearn in order to redefine progress on your own terms?
• 10:59
  John Reaves: Oh my goodness.
• 11:00
  John Reaves: I probably would say one of the biggest things is it's okay to make mistakes.
• 11:07
  John Reaves: It's okay to have a misstep.
• 11:10
  John Reaves: It's okay not to have all of the answers.
• 11:13
  John Reaves: When you get out of the space that you have to be perfect, and that, you know, when criticism, you're presented with criticism and you freak out and so forth.
• 11:24
  John Reaves: Once you get past all of that, I think you'll be in a better headspace to move forward.
• 11:29
  John Reaves: And for me, again, when I um, you know, learned that fulfillment isn't awarded by an organization, it's built internally through intentional growth, things really started to change for me.
• 11:43
  Jeanne: Absolutely.
• 11:44
  Jeanne: I wish uh, you know, more people knew that because I see a lot of my friends still struggling where they are and they're not happy.
• 11:51
  Jeanne: And it's not getting them anywhere.
• 11:53
  Jeanne: And they can go from place to place, same industry to try to boost up to get another uh level of job.
• 12:01
  Jeanne: But then they reach this thing where the level of job in that company is lower than the level of job in the other company.
• 12:10
  Jeanne: It's just like, what are you doing?
• 12:13
  John Reaves: And that's why you you really have to, I guess, put away the company's navigator and create your own.
• 12:21
  Jeanne: Oh, I love that.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: So, Chart Your own course.
• 12:24
  Jeanne: Oh, that goes great with Project Candor.
• 12:26
  Jeanne: We're always charting our course here.
• 12:28
  Jeanne: I love that.
• 12:30
  Jeanne: Yeah, you're right.
• 12:31
  Jeanne: You do have to chart your own course because uh uh like I I think I told you this before, my husband being from Europe and Sweden, he he taught me a big valuable lesson of invest in myself.
• 12:44
  Jeanne: And uh nobody else is gonna nobody should have to pay you to train for a skill.
• 12:50
  Jeanne: If you want the skill, go do it.
• 12:52
  Jeanne: Go buy the course, go take the course, go learn it on your own, but invest in yourself because you have to, you know, you are the one that achieves what you want to achieve.
• 13:05
  Jeanne: Nobody else is gonna do it for you.
• 13:06
  Jeanne: And that just falls right into what you say.
• 13:10
  John Reaves: And that maybe it's a European mindset that we don't have over here, but well, I would say there probably is some truth to that because a number of the Europeans I've had interaction with over the years in the workplace, their mindset is different.
• 13:24
  John Reaves: I mean, they do take three or four month vacations.
• 13:27
  John Reaves: They have no problem if if you have a sick child, they're not looking over their shoulders saying, oh my God, oh my God, I have to um, you know, figure some stuff out.
• 13:35
  John Reaves: They just promptly leave, let people know that they're gonna be gone for a moment, and then they come back and pick up where they left off.
• 13:41
  John Reaves: And and you kind of wonder, well, why didn't we get those tenants in this country?
• 13:47
  John Reaves: Why aren't we replicating some of that?
• 13:49
  John Reaves: You know, we would prefer to, you know, have people on pins and needles.
• 13:53
  John Reaves: I mean, I can go on and on about stories where, you know, one of my colleagues, let's see, his wife, was expecting, and she called and said, I think my time is up.
• 14:06
  John Reaves: And he was in a big meeting saying, Well, I'll get there when I get there.
• 14:09
  John Reaves: I'm thinking, what?
• 14:09
  John Reaves: What?
• 14:10
  John Reaves: Can you just go and take care of that and be present for your family?
• 14:15
  John Reaves: Because here's the thing those moments you can't get back.
• 14:19
  John Reaves: You can get back this meeting, you can get back all of that stuff, but you can't get back being present for the birth of your child.
• 14:26
  John Reaves: I mean, what are we doing?
• 14:29
  John Reaves: But at the same time, if you are mentally at a point where you feel like everything's going to uh, you know, crash if I'm not present, I got some news for you.
• 14:41
  John Reaves: If you once your number comes up and you're no longer with the company, guess what happens?
• 14:46
  John Reaves: Somebody else get that number and stop running until you know that time is up.
• 14:50
  John Reaves: That's just kind of how it works.
• 14:52
  Jeanne: Yeah, it was a hard lesson for me way at the beginning of my career to learn that everybody's replaceable.
• 14:58
  Jeanne: Oh.
• 14:59
  Jeanne: Because I put in this great system when I was in the Navy.
• 15:02
  Jeanne: You know, the Navy's kind of like they're like regimented, do this, do this, do this.
• 15:06
  Jeanne: But where I was, they were just doing a lot of automation and stuff.
• 15:10
  Jeanne: So I've created some systems around it.
• 15:13
  Jeanne: And then I talked to people when I went to another duty station.
• 15:16
  Jeanne: I talked to people, I'm like, you still using that thing?
• 15:19
  Jeanne: Oh no, we trashed that.
• 15:21
  Jeanne: It was awful.
• 15:22
  Jeanne: I was like, ah, I'm out of sight, out of mind.
• 15:25
  Jeanne: You just dumped my whole thing.
• 15:27
  Jeanne: I was so proud of.
• 15:28
  Jeanne: But they were getting along, they didn't need me.
• 15:31
  Jeanne: So whatever.
• 15:32
  John Reaves: Yeah.
• 15:33
  Jeanne: It's sad, but true.
• 15:35
  John Reaves: It is.
• 15:37
  Jeanne: So let's talk about this idea of a promotion that no one else can give you.
• 15:42
  Jeanne: What changes internally before anything changes externally?
• 15:46
  John Reaves: It really is in mindset.
• 15:48
  John Reaves: I think when you are going through your own transformation, if your mind is not right, there's not a whole lot you can do.
• 15:56
  John Reaves: And I'll give you a great example.
• 15:58
  John Reaves: I talk to people all the time that have lost their jobs or feel stuck in their jobs.
• 16:04
  John Reaves: And their mentality is I'll either get a novel job or I just want to get something so I can, you know, be able to resume my life.
• 16:13
  John Reaves: But they're not thinking about what comes next.
• 16:16
  John Reaves: And my belief is before you can start looking for a job, before you can start switching to another job, you really gotta get your mind right.
• 16:26
  John Reaves: You gotta make sure that you are in a mind space to deal with all the twists and turns and so forth.
• 16:32
  John Reaves: One of the fun, and I call it an analogy, but it really is just I've watched particularly professional sports, whether it's football and basketball.
• 16:43
  John Reaves: And keep in mind, I don't know nothing about either sport, but I know a whole lot about their business practices.
• 16:48
  John Reaves: And one of the interesting things that I've noticed is that coaches, you know, whether it is in December or right after the season has ended, a lot of them get fired.
• 16:59
  John Reaves: And you're thinking, what is going on?
• 17:02
  John Reaves: I mean, half of these coaches are being fired.
• 17:05
  John Reaves: And here's the thing four weeks, five weeks later, they're in new jobs.
• 17:09
  John Reaves: And you wait, wait, wait them then.
• 17:11
  John Reaves: How can that be?
• 17:13
  John Reaves: And it's just the culture that they're in, and that's what they do.
• 17:17
  John Reaves: And I suspect that if somebody played on a basketball team and they were traded to five or six teams, that that's not necessarily a picnic.
• 17:26
  John Reaves: And I like to equate all of that to what happens in the workspace, you know, in the corporate workspace.
• 17:31
  John Reaves: We experience some of that too.
• 17:33
  John Reaves: The problem is that obviously we're not making millions of dollars like some of these other folk.
• 17:38
  John Reaves: But I think the mindset of these individuals is basically the same.
• 17:44
  John Reaves: They got fired on Monday and Tuesday.
• 17:46
  John Reaves: They said, you know, I'm ready to jump into somebody else.
• 17:48
  John Reaves: I'm just going to start interviewing with other people.
• 17:51
  John Reaves: It's because they are at a mindset saying, I will just do what I can to leave the team that I was with better, hopefully.
• 18:00
  John Reaves: And if not, you know, some other team will pick me up and I'll probably be able to, you know, dive into their culture and hopefully things will work out.
• 18:08
  John Reaves: So I will always just encourage people to really think through when they are, you know, in a situation where they feel like they can't do anything else and the world is coming to an end.
• 18:20
  John Reaves: Take a moment and take a brief breath.
• 18:23
  John Reaves: Take that deep breath and then mentally start thinking through what are my possibilities?
• 18:30
  John Reaves: There are always possibilities.
• 18:32
  John Reaves: I always tell people, you know what?
• 18:35
  John Reaves: You have so much power, you just need to start taking it and investing in you.
• 18:41
  John Reaves: And part of that is having the mental capacity to believe that you can do anything you want so long as you sit down and write a plan.
• 18:51
  Jeanne: Absolutely.
• 18:52
  Jeanne: And you're not saying that everybody should stop and be an entrepreneur and not at all.
• 18:57
  Jeanne: Not at all.
• 18:57
  Jeanne: You can yeah, do something on their own.
• 18:59
  Jeanne: You're just saying find the right thing.
• 19:02
  John Reaves: And here's the thing: even if you're in one of those situations where you want to be a corporate citizen for the rest of your life, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
• 19:11
  John Reaves: But just know that there are limitations.
• 19:14
  John Reaves: That corporate organization is not necessarily going to be as vested in yourselves than you need to be.
• 19:20
  John Reaves: And one of my favorite stories, and not one of my favorite stories, is when people talk about learning.
• 19:26
  John Reaves: When a company doesn't send them to a training conference or if they don't want to pay for a course and so forth, you know, people get upset.
• 19:33
  John Reaves: Well, a lot of us out here will say, Well, why can't you just pay for it yourself, get the certification or whatever it is you're trying to get from that, and build on whatever you already have.
• 19:45
  John Reaves: That's a piece that I also would like to provide advice to folk, especially when you feel like you're stuck or you are in the middle of jobs and so forth.
• 19:54
  John Reaves: Learning is probably one of the biggest things you can do for yourself, whether it is taking a course, picking up a book, all the above.
• 20:03
  John Reaves: Learning can free you.
• 20:05
  John Reaves: It can also liberate you to really explore other avenues that you probably didn't think was possible.
• 20:11
  John Reaves: And when I also think about when I um was laid off for my last job, that's exactly what I did in the midst of you know, thinking about what I wanted my next steps to be.
• 20:22
  John Reaves: I took a class.
• 20:23
  John Reaves: And I mean, people were like, what?
• 20:26
  John Reaves: But that's a lot of that is simply because I love to learn.
• 20:30
  John Reaves: I don't necessarily need to go get a new degree or even a certification.
• 20:34
  John Reaves: But if you find, you know, whether it's a new book or some type of um, you know, course that's um fun, I'm always gonna be um ready to um sign up for.
• 20:43
  John Reaves: In fact, you know, one of the things that I do, and you probably wonder how I have time to do this, I try to read a book every week of something.
• 20:51
  John Reaves: You know, most books are not very long, probably a few hundred pages.
• 20:55
  John Reaves: But I really believe that learning has to be your main promotion.
• 21:01
  John Reaves: If you really want to get ahead, if you really want to be excited about life and making strides and making a difference in other people's lives, you have to be a lifelong learner.
• 21:12
  John Reaves: And that can be in any space.
• 21:15
  John Reaves: I don't care what job you're doing.
• 21:18
  John Reaves: You could always do more by picking up a book or even YouTube.
• 21:22
  John Reaves: I mean, if that's your thing, whatever your thing is, be intentional about learning and improving yourself.
• 21:29
  John Reaves: That will make a difference, and you will feel better about your overall outcome and your productivity.
• 21:36
  Jeanne: Well, yeah, nowadays there's this all these other learning labs online, like Udemy.
• 21:40
  Jeanne: I can't, I don't even know if I'm saying it right, but they'll sell a course for like $30.
• 21:45
  Jeanne: And it'll be a really good course that somebody's put together, and it'll teach you how to prepare for network installation or AI.
• 21:56
  Jeanne: What is AI?
• 21:57
  Jeanne: How do you use AI?
• 21:58
  Jeanne: You know, all of these things.
• 21:59
  Jeanne: And what people don't realize is when they don't invest in themselves is that when they go into a company, when the companies are talking about do they need to downsize, they are looking at skills and people sitting there with no skills and haven't, you know, learned anything for the past 10 years sitting there, they're the ones that aren't of high value.
• 22:20
  Jeanne: And I'm not saying people aren't of high value, but that's that's where the corporations are focused on people that are getting those skills and maintaining them.
• 22:28
  Jeanne: And then, like you said, when you get those, then you feel better about yourself.
• 22:33
  John Reaves: You do.
• 22:33
  John Reaves: And for me, when I think about all of the amazing opportunities to learn out there, it's it's pretty it's pretty astounding.
• 22:43
  John Reaves: I mean, YouTube in itself is an amazing tool.
• 22:47
  John Reaves: I just think about, you know, early in my career where I had to run to the library or call a friend and so forth because of something I wanted to get some advice on and so forth.
• 22:57
  John Reaves: Well, you don't have to do that anymore.
• 22:59
  John Reaves: You can just get in front of the computer.
• 23:01
  John Reaves: And if the and if I don't know, your AI friends or your internet doesn't necessarily have an answer, you can turn on YouTube and somebody has talked about it.
• 23:09
  John Reaves: And I love that.
• 23:11
  John Reaves: And again, you kind of have to take all of these different vehicles and vet them, of course.
• 23:16
  John Reaves: But I think again, no one should ever be complaining about I don't have the money to learn because it's out here.
• 23:23
  John Reaves: And in a lot of instances, so long as you're not on some type of um in a situation where you don't have access to things, it's typically can be free.
• 23:34
  Jeanne: Yeah, absolutely.
• 23:35
  Jeanne: Yeah, YouTube is a big thing for me.
• 23:37
  Jeanne: I don't really watch TV that much.
• 23:39
  Jeanne: Oh well, what the heck?
• 23:40
  Jeanne: Yeah, I do watch it, but I I I have specific things that I watch.
• 23:46
  Jeanne: And so, but YouTube is kind of like what I keep on a lot because I go looking for skills in sewing and in music.
• 23:54
  Jeanne: Like, how do you play that chord and how do you transition to this chord?
• 23:59
  Jeanne: Yeah, so that's I totally agree with what you're saying, and you're spot on totally.
• 24:04
  Jeanne: Okay, so a lot of driven people secretly measure themselves against titles and org charts.
• 24:11
  Jeanne: So, how do you separate identity from position?
• 24:14
  Jeanne: We talked around it a little bit.
• 24:16
  Jeanne: I I think you have more insight.
• 24:18
  John Reaves: I do.
• 24:19
  John Reaves: And I think when you again stop allowing people to validate you based on what your position is or, you know, who you know and so forth, you're gonna see a difference.
• 24:34
  John Reaves: And, you know, my case in point is, and it's just kind of funny, um, you know, for years I thought I was doing everything right.
• 24:43
  John Reaves: I was working hard, I was earning all of these intros, and still I still felt stuck.
• 24:49
  John Reaves: I mean, it felt like I was always waiting to be noticed, waiting to be chosen.
• 24:55
  John Reaves: And that's when I realized, and that's when I, you know, will really re-emphasize here.
• 25:00
  John Reaves: I was tying my worth to someone else's decision.
• 25:03
  John Reaves: And that's typically, I think, the rut that a lot of folk get in.
• 25:07
  John Reaves: They're still waiting in line for their turn versus saying, I don't need to wait in line anymore.
• 25:14
  John Reaves: My turn can be a lot of different things now.
• 25:17
  John Reaves: It doesn't necessarily have to be the title, it doesn't have to be getting a promotion at my job.
• 25:22
  John Reaves: It could be doing such things as volunteer work and getting fulfillment from that.
• 25:27
  John Reaves: It could be, you know, raising your kids to be productive, you know, citizens.
• 25:32
  John Reaves: It could be a whole lot of different things.
• 25:34
  John Reaves: It doesn't necessarily have to be validated solely in a work climate.
• 25:39
  John Reaves: And I think we all run into sort of that trap thinking if we don't have a certain title that the world's gonna come to an end and no one's gonna look at us differently.
• 25:48
  John Reaves: And you do have those circles that are looking at you based on your title and your position.
• 25:53
  John Reaves: But most of us could care less.
• 25:56
  John Reaves: Most of us are more interested in.
• 25:59
  John Reaves: In fact, when I go to dinner parties, the last thing I want to talk about is work.
• 26:05
  John Reaves: I want to talk about things, you know, what matters to you?
• 26:08
  John Reaves: Where have you traveled to?
• 26:10
  John Reaves: You know, what are you interested in?
• 26:12
  John Reaves: You know, none of this, I was working on a an Excel spreadsheet or I was doing a PowerPoint.
• 26:18
  John Reaves: I could care less about that.
• 26:20
  John Reaves: I don't want to hear about that in a works, in a um, you know, a cocktail or dinner setting.
• 26:24
  John Reaves: Now, there are people that will say, especially if you're networking, you have to be able to do that.
• 26:29
  John Reaves: It just depends.
• 26:31
  John Reaves: But I think at the end of the day, when you start to focus on, I call it the things that really matter, especially when it comes to work, I think you will feel much better when you go into a climate and let's just say it's really volatile.
• 26:47
  John Reaves: When you're thinking about so many of the other things that you give and that you provide value to, the work stuff doesn't become that big of a deal.
• 26:56
  John Reaves: And again, I'm the last person to tell someone, you just go quit your job and figure it out.
• 27:01
  John Reaves: Absolutely not.
• 27:02
  John Reaves: What I'm saying is I think you need to stop expecting all of this crazy stuff to happen to you at work and start thinking about the internal building, which will inform what you do at work, and you will be a better corporate citizen and you will be able to show up better at work.
• 27:18
  John Reaves: And most importantly, others will see your light and want to shine like you.
• 27:23
  Jeanne: Oh, that's absolutely great advice.
• 27:25
  Jeanne: It kind of goes into high-pressure environments.
• 27:29
  Jeanne: We've talked about this before, but people that are trying to climb and get those titles, and you're so funny when you say nobody wants to sit around and talk about Excel spreadsheets.
• 27:39
  Jeanne: I totally get that.
• 27:40
  Jeanne: But there is a lot of cutthroat competition.
• 27:43
  Jeanne: And so, how do you stay competitive and grow professionally without falling into the trap?
• 27:50
  Jeanne: Because I've seen people climb on the shoulders of other people and take credit for other things, that things that other people have done just to get a promotion and you're just looking at it and like, you can't really have done that.
• 28:02
  Jeanne: Did you really do that?
• 28:04
  John Reaves: Yeah, and and it is a lot of that out there.
• 28:07
  John Reaves: In fact, um, you know, I've had a number of jobs where people, you know, went out of the way to, you know, undercut you or be derogatory, or worse, you know, lie and cheat.
• 28:19
  John Reaves: In fact, I'll have to tell you a funny quick story.
• 28:22
  Jeanne: Okay.
• 28:22
  John Reaves: I was listening to the radio station, I guess it was a week ago, and one of the um hosts of one of the more popular reality shows was on was on the um radio.
• 28:33
  John Reaves: And for me, it was a wonderful interview.
• 28:37
  John Reaves: In fact, they were just doing a really good job of bouncing off ideas off of one another until the host of the um reality show stated that his show mirrors what really happens in the workplace where you have to basically lie, cheat, and be deceiving.
• 28:55
  Jeanne: What is that show, Survivor?
• 28:58
  John Reaves: Well, I don't want to be sued, and I don't want to say, but let's just say, yeah, so something like that.
• 29:06
  John Reaves: I was stunned, not because there wasn't some validity to what he said, but I could just took a step back and said, Do you really have to lie, cheat, and steal in the workplace?
• 29:17
  John Reaves: Yes, you probably have to do that on a reality show because they're trying to get ratings and they're trying to get an audience excited.
• 29:24
  John Reaves: But those folk like myself in the workplace, we don't necessarily want that type of excitement in five.
• 29:30
  John Reaves: Yeah, exactly.
• 29:30
  John Reaves: I think I can do without that.
• 29:32
  Jeanne: Yeah, absolutely.
• 29:33
  John Reaves: And you asked the question, do you have to do that?
• 29:37
  John Reaves: And in some environments, they cultivate that.
• 29:39
  John Reaves: They cultivate walking over and underwater so forth.
• 29:42
  John Reaves: But here's the thing: once you get to sort of the top of that um totem pole, you have the title, you basically cut and bruised everybody along where you got some cuts and bruises too.
• 29:55
  John Reaves: Then what?
• 29:56
  John Reaves: What happens then?
• 29:58
  John Reaves: Do you go to the next step?
• 30:00
  John Reaves: Do you start shooting people?
• 30:01
  John Reaves: Do you start throwing people off a mountain?
• 30:03
  John Reaves: I mean, and and that's the reality.
• 30:06
  John Reaves: You don't really think about how far are you willing to go.
• 30:10
  John Reaves: And that's why one of the things that I will tell you that I've always um believed that's been sort of a a badge of honor that I've worn in the workplace is my level of integrity.
• 30:23
  John Reaves: And, you know, I talk about this in my book, integrity, when no one is watching.
• 30:28
  John Reaves: I cannot overemphasize to you, so many people can't say the same thing.
• 30:33
  John Reaves: And it's so funny when I think about one of the examples in my book that I talk about, um, I was working for one of these firms, and the person asked me to shred all of these documents.
• 30:46
  John Reaves: And I knew clearly that that was a problem.
• 30:49
  John Reaves: So I promptly went to my manager and said, Is this something I should do?
• 30:54
  John Reaves: And, you know, he kind of was like, Well, if you don't want to work on a project, that's okay.
• 30:58
  John Reaves: And I said, Well, I would prefer to not work on a project where I possibly am compromising myself as well as the company all in the process.
• 31:07
  John Reaves: So I did not work on that project anymore.
• 31:10
  John Reaves: And ultimately, the um company that was undertaking these practices was audited and paid a significant fine because of those actions.
• 31:20
  John Reaves: But the thing that never went through my mind is, oh my God, I'm not gonna have a job, I'm gonna get fired.
• 31:27
  John Reaves: I was just thinking about does this make sense?
• 31:30
  John Reaves: Do I really want to be able to sleep at night because of these behaviors?
• 31:34
  John Reaves: And I don't think a lot of professionals think about that until they're in that type of situation.
• 31:39
  John Reaves: And a lot of professionals probably would have proceeded and shredded those arguments and not really thought about it and thought, well, okay, maybe, maybe I'll get away with it, maybe it'd be okay.
• 31:50
  John Reaves: And they're not really thinking about the consequences.
• 31:53
  John Reaves: Then five or six years, you know, lying in the bear there thinking, oh my God, I probably shouldn't have done that.
• 31:58
  John Reaves: I don't have those types of situations.
• 32:01
  John Reaves: You know, you would think in my 30 plus years, I would have levels of integrity issues that may have presented itself.
• 32:08
  John Reaves: No, because in every instance, I can sleep at night with my decision.
• 32:12
  John Reaves: It may not have been the right decision, but I can sleep at night because I believe I was making the right decision based on the circumstances.
• 32:19
  Jeanne: Yeah, that's great.
• 32:21
  Jeanne: And it I wish a lot more people were like you, like it in corporations today.
• 32:26
  John Reaves: It's not easy.
• 32:26
  John Reaves: It isn't easy.
• 32:28
  John Reaves: No, it isn't.
• 32:28
  John Reaves: It's not easy.
• 32:29
  John Reaves: Because again, you can you may be in a situation where they tell you is either my way or the highway.
• 32:35
  John Reaves: And again, when you're thinking about your mortgage, when you're thinking about Oh, did I work at the same company with you?
• 32:40
  John Reaves: Am I way or the highway?
• 32:43
  John Reaves: Right.
• 32:44
  John Reaves: But but when you're thinking about how I'm going to provide for my family, you're not really necessarily thinking about integrity.
• 32:51
  John Reaves: Well, people like me are.
• 32:52
  John Reaves: And the reason why is because it's important that at the end of the day you send a message that you don't have to cheat, steal, and be deceptive in order to get ahead in the workplace.
• 33:06
  John Reaves: You just don't have, I don't believe you have to do that.
• 33:08
  John Reaves: Now, would I be a CEO if I had done some of those things?
• 33:13
  John Reaves: Probably not.
• 33:14
  John Reaves: I don't think so.
• 33:16
  John Reaves: Because I I really do believe that a lot of folk that are in these higher positions, they didn't have to go through those thresholds of stealing and and robbing Peter to pay part.
• 33:27
  John Reaves: They didn't have to do that.
• 33:29
  John Reaves: But there are those that have.
• 33:30
  John Reaves: And I think there are consequences associated with it.
• 33:33
  John Reaves: Because just like you, you know, cheated and lied, guess what?
• 33:38
  John Reaves: The person that's right behind you can do the same thing and may take your road down the line.
• 33:42
  John Reaves: And those are things that we just don't think about.
• 33:44
  John Reaves: It really is a domino effect, you know.
• 33:47
  John Reaves: That whole thing about, you know, do unto others as they do unto you.
• 33:52
  John Reaves: And if you find yourself doing crazy stuff, it will come back to you.
• 33:57
  John Reaves: May not happen on Monday, but it will eventually occur.
• 34:02
  John Reaves: And it's gonna be one of those situations where you're not thinking about it.
• 34:05
  John Reaves: Oh my God, I can't believe that this is happening.
• 34:08
  John Reaves: Well, think about what you did a few years ago to that person.
• 34:11
  Jeanne: Absolutely.
• 34:12
  Jeanne: And just think about it like this.
• 34:14
  Jeanne: It's if you look at it as a criminal lawyer would do if you went to trial.
• 34:20
  Jeanne: Did you do this?
• 34:21
  Jeanne: Did you shred those papers?
• 34:23
  Jeanne: You know, and then you say, Yeah, but he told me to, and then he was my boss.
• 34:28
  Jeanne: And then he's like, Well, he just I didn't tell you that at all.
• 34:31
  Jeanne: I mean, it's you have to live with yourself, just like I tell my kids, you can't get away from yourself.
• 34:38
  Jeanne: You are gonna be with yourself for the rest of your life.
• 34:40
  Jeanne: If you don't like yourself, then you're gonna have a hard time in this life.
• 34:45
  John Reaves: Well, you are, and I think about a lot of books that are out there that are, you know, encouraging people to, you know, sort of unpilleting on you in a different way for us in the workplace, for us, you know, fighting to get that promotion.
• 34:57
  John Reaves: This is what you do, this is how you do it.
• 34:59
  John Reaves: And I really wanted the real promotion to take a different span.
• 35:03
  John Reaves: I really wanted them, anyone that reads this book, to have clarity about their purpose and ownership of their development.
• 35:12
  John Reaves: You know, I want the reader to stop waiting to be chosen and start choosing who they are becoming.
• 35:20
  John Reaves: And I gotta say, taking self-actualization and really investing in yourself is something that most of us simply don't do.
• 35:31
  John Reaves: You know, we're so busy running, we're so busy trying to do all of these different things, but we're not taking the time out to invest in ourselves.
• 35:38
  John Reaves: And that's what this book is all about your own self-reflection and trying to figure out what makes the most sense for me.
• 35:45
  John Reaves: Because there are a lot of things that I wrote about in the book, may not even be applicable.
• 35:50
  John Reaves: But I believe there's something in the book for everybody.
• 35:54
  John Reaves: And I really believe it's um, it really is uh call to action, it's a challenge to take ownership of how we show up, choosing positive energy over passive frustration, and then leadership over the status quo.
• 36:11
  John Reaves: So again, you know, when I think about all of the possibilities, when I think about all of the things that I could be doing, I am just so glad that one day I said enough and I need to do this a little bit differently.
• 36:24
  Jeanne: Yeah.
• 36:25
  Jeanne: That's very admirable.
• 36:27
  Jeanne: So you kind of answered my last question before we transition to the game, but I I do want to say one thing.
• 36:34
  Jeanne: If somebody's out there listening right now and they're it's resonating with them, what is the absolute first step that they can take, the simple step to go in the right direction?
• 36:47
  John Reaves: For me, it was taking a deep breath and sitting down and making a list of things that I want to do.
• 36:58
  John Reaves: Things that I I mean, I'm thinking I love to dream.
• 37:03
  John Reaves: One and my wife always uh is amazed because I'm one of those people that can go to sleep in like five seconds as soon as I get it.
• 37:13
  Jeanne: Me too.
• 37:14
  John Reaves: And a lot of it is because I'm really excited about what's gonna happen to me.
• 37:20
  John Reaves: You know, I love to dream about positive things, of course, about all of the different possibilities, you know.
• 37:26
  John Reaves: Some people may want to dream about being rich and having, you know, mini mansions and all that other sort of thing.
• 37:32
  John Reaves: I just dream about just, you know, really enjoying life and having fun and doing all that I can to get back to others.
• 37:40
  John Reaves: So I think the very, very first thing is to get in front of a mirror and take a look at yourself and start to think through what am I doing?
• 37:52
  John Reaves: What do I want to become?
• 37:54
  John Reaves: And most people will probably say, That's that's nothing, that's easy.
• 37:59
  John Reaves: It's not.
• 38:00
  John Reaves: When you start doing full self-reflection, when you do meaningful self-reflection, thinking about what have I done for somebody else today, what have I done for myself?
• 38:12
  John Reaves: And then you take a step back and say, Wow, I've lost so much time.
• 38:18
  John Reaves: And you have.
• 38:20
  John Reaves: And you can get some of that time back by really sitting down and being intentional about how you move forward.
• 38:28
  Jeanne: I like that.
• 38:29
  Jeanne: I'm gonna do that myself because I I do I do fall asleep really fast, but there are some times when you just need to like reset again, just go back and reset, even though you think you're going in the right direction.
• 38:44
  Jeanne: I think a lot of those things you said today helps people reflect and reset themselves.
• 38:49
  Jeanne: So I'm gonna take that deep breath and then look at the things I want to do.
• 38:53
  Jeanne: I'm already doing a lot of fun things, but there may be other things.
• 38:57
  Jeanne: Get rid of some of the things I don't like.
• 38:59
  John Reaves: Reset is just an opportunity to take a moment and do it differently.
• 39:06
  John Reaves: And I'm not really sure why that's such a bad word in a lot of people's um vocabulary, but regrouping is what we all should be doing.
• 39:19
  John Reaves: And when I think about politics, what I am absolutely not a politician.
• 39:23
  John Reaves: When I hear when I hear people that say things, uh, for instance, that a politician has to, you know, be on a straight and narrow, and they literally have to, if they say one thing, they have to follow it through, even if it's wrong.
• 39:38
  John Reaves: And my response is I want my politicians to be nuanced.
• 39:42
  John Reaves: I want them to be in a situation where they may have looked at a situation and then after they've learned and gained more information, they took a different position based on the new information they had.
• 39:53
  John Reaves: I don't want them to always feel like it got to be this way or the highway.
• 39:56
  John Reaves: And the problem with a lot of us is that we've started these projects and we feel like if we don't see them through, that the world's gonna come to an end.
• 40:04
  John Reaves: I'm the first one to tell you that that project that you're working on, the earlier you stop it, especially if it's not going the direction that you wanted to go in, the cheaper it will be in the long term.
• 40:16
  Jeanne: Right.
• 40:16
  Jeanne: Well, this has been fabulous.
• 40:18
  Jeanne: I love talking to you.
• 40:19
  Jeanne: You're a really interesting person and very smart person.
• 40:23
  John Reaves: So Well, the pleasure is all mine.
• 40:25
  John Reaves: You've been amazing.
• 40:26
  John Reaves: You've been an absolutely um fun to interact with, and I'm sure this won't be the last time.
• 40:31
  Jeanne: Yeah, well, we're gonna go play the game though.
• 40:33
  Jeanne: Yeah, we're transitioning.
• 40:35
  Jeanne: So, for those listening, here's the way it works.
• 40:38
  Jeanne: John has given me three headlines about his life, so we can dig in a little bit deeper on him personally, and we're gonna read those headlines.
• 40:48
  Jeanne: I'm gonna guess which one I think two of them are true, one of them is a lie.
• 40:52
  Jeanne: I'm gonna guess which one I think is a lie or the twisted truth.
• 40:55
  Jeanne: Then he's gonna walk us through each of those stories, and then at the end, he'll reveal it to us.
• 41:01
  Jeanne: This episode is sponsored by Rebel 180, the home of brave pivots and fresh starts.
• 41:08
  Jeanne: Rebel 180 is all about helping you rediscover what's possible when you stop settling and start listening to that little tug inside that says, life can be different.
• 41:18
  Jeanne: Whether you're navigating a career shift, dreaming about a new direction, or standing at the crossroads wondering if it's time for your own 180-degree turn, Rebel 180 is a reminder you don't need permission to change your story.
• 41:32
  Jeanne: And now, as we open the door to our second sponsor, we're stepping into the world of tech.
• 41:36
  Jeanne: Simple socket print, the lightweight blazing fast label print solution designed for those who need reliability without the blue.
• 41:44
  Jeanne: With version 1.5, you get instant printing in milliseconds, fully maintained print sequence, and automatic base 64 decoding all without needing print driver installs.
• 41:55
  Jeanne: If you're running SQL Server 2016 or newer, SimpleSocket Print 1.5 drops right in and gets to work.
• 42:02
  Jeanne: Keep your workflow simple, keep your label printing fast with Simple Socket Print.
• 42:07
  Jeanne: Thank you to our sponsors.
• 42:10
  Jeanne: Headline number one.
• 42:15
  Jeanne: I can't even read this.
• 42:18
  Jeanne: John once caught two senior colleagues naked in an office after hours, and it permanently changed how he fused power, risk, and leadership.
• 42:31
  Jeanne: It would change a lot more than that for me.
• 42:34
  Jeanne: Like I wouldn't want to look at them at all.
• 42:36
  Jeanne: So that's headline number one.
• 42:39
  Jeanne: Headline number two.
• 42:40
  Jeanne: John's college roommate won $500,000 on a lottery ticket and gave uh John $20,000 because John had given him money toward that ticket.
• 42:51
  Jeanne: I hope your roommate did that.
• 42:53
  Jeanne: And then number three, John helped a man experiencing homelessness secure a job and it redefined what success actually means to him.
• 43:03
  Jeanne: Well, I'm gonna guess, I was gonna guess, number two.
• 43:07
  Jeanne: I'm gonna guess number one because I really hope that never happened.
• 43:11
  Jeanne: But okay.
• 43:12
  Jeanne: But you're gonna tell you're gonna tell us.
• 43:14
  Jeanne: So tell us about story number one.
• 43:16
  John Reaves: Okay.
• 43:17
  John Reaves: Story number one was about a situation where I was working like um really late one night, and I was literally kind of just rounging through the halls, and I noticed a light was on in one of these offices.
• 43:33
  John Reaves: So I decided to see who was still on the floor.
• 43:36
  John Reaves: I opened the door and was stunned at what I saw.
• 43:44
  Jeanne: I couldn't unsee it.
• 43:46
  Jeanne: Ah, I know.
• 43:47
  Jeanne: Did you work for these people?
• 43:51
  John Reaves: I did.
• 43:51
  John Reaves: One of them was my manager.
• 43:54
  Jeanne: Okay.
• 43:55
  John Reaves: Needless to say, it was it was pretty crazy.
• 43:59
  John Reaves: I Oh my God.
• 44:00
  John Reaves: Yeah.
• 44:01
  John Reaves: So let's just say when I see doors, whether they're open or closed, I don't do anything with them at work because I don't want to see what's behind the door.
• 44:11
  Jeanne: Oh my gosh.
• 44:12
  Jeanne: I bet you got a lot of gifts after that.
• 44:16
  John Reaves: Well, um, well, the good thing is it kind of resolved in cells because um both of the persons eventually end up leaving the company, but I left before them, so I don't exactly know what happened to them, but it was crazy.
• 44:30
  John Reaves: But that person that was my manager, let's just say, uh, never talked to me again.
• 44:36
  Jeanne: Hey, this is like it reminds me of that Coldplay concert.
• 44:40
  Jeanne: Have you seen that all over YouTube, right?
• 44:44
  John Reaves: Yeah, yeah.
• 44:45
  John Reaves: Well, just think about if it was during a time where people could pull out their because there were no um, I guess we did have mobile phones, but they were not at the level they are today.
• 44:56
  John Reaves: Could you imagine someone filming that?
• 44:58
  John Reaves: Oh god.
• 44:59
  Jeanne: Oh, I wouldn't.
• 45:00
  Jeanne: Uh well, at least you didn't do that.
• 45:03
  Jeanne: Uh yeah.
• 45:04
  Jeanne: People are stupid when they do these things out in public and digital stuff.
• 45:10
  Jeanne: Yeah, you're gonna get caught.
• 45:13
  Jeanne: All right.
• 45:13
  Jeanne: Number two, how is that roommate?
• 45:15
  Jeanne: Was he good to you?
• 45:16
  Jeanne: That is so false.
• 45:18
  Jeanne: Oh, you did it's not supposed to tell us.
• 45:20
  Jeanne: Okay.
• 45:21
  John Reaves: I am so sorry.
• 45:22
  John Reaves: Um, it's so easy to do.
• 45:25
  John Reaves: It is so easy to do, and I caught myself.
• 45:27
  John Reaves: Um, but um, this is one of those situations where my roommates um I don't think they would have given me five cents, not alone twenty thousand dollars.
• 45:36
  John Reaves: But um maybe one of them would have, um, but the other one not so much.
• 45:40
  John Reaves: Um, but yeah, I just thought that was fun.
• 45:43
  Jeanne: Yeah, it is kind of fun to think about.
• 45:45
  Jeanne: But I was gonna guess that one at first, but you know, you were.
• 45:48
  John Reaves: I remember, and I kind of dissuaded you on yesterday not to choose that one.
• 45:52
  John Reaves: But the third one, this is what I do.
• 45:57
  John Reaves: I uh was in a situation where I saw a homeless guy, and he didn't even ask me for money or anything, and I saw that he was reading a book, and I said, Oh, okay.
• 46:08
  John Reaves: And we engaged in a you know casual conversation, and I noticed that where I was parking at the time, he was always there.
• 46:17
  John Reaves: So I would, you know, see him and we would exchange pleasantries.
• 46:21
  John Reaves: And one day I said, You know what?
• 46:22
  John Reaves: Here's my car.
• 46:24
  John Reaves: How about we talk about how we can move you, you know, beyond sort of the um where you are?
• 46:31
  John Reaves: And his circumstances were interesting.
• 46:33
  John Reaves: He was working a decent job, he got laid off and got involved in drugs, lost his family, lost his house, and so forth.
• 46:42
  John Reaves: And he was just trying to find his way back.
• 46:44
  John Reaves: And he was staying at the shelter um where uh my office was located, and we just again disconnected.
• 46:52
  John Reaves: And, you know, every week I would actually go on my way to see him to see what was happening and so forth.
• 46:58
  John Reaves: And sure enough, after a period of time, he started to trust me and I created his resume.
• 47:02
  John Reaves: You know, I helped him to sort of get ready to interview for jobs, and he got back on track.
• 47:07
  Jeanne: That's fantastic.
• 47:08
  Jeanne: That's really fantastic.
• 47:09
  Jeanne: And now in this day and age, you know, the more I will like to do things like that, except for there's a lot of danger that people you see all the time.
• 47:17
  Jeanne: There's a lot of danger in just speaking to people that you don't really know what they're doing or where they're coming from.
• 47:24
  Jeanne: But that was quite bold and commendable for you to do that.
• 47:28
  John Reaves: So well, it was, but I will say that I think because I saw this person every day, it made it pretty easy for me to feel as if I'm not gonna get my head chopped off because I'm trying to be helpful.
• 47:44
  John Reaves: But you do have to, you know, have a level of some type of um discernment because you don't know.
• 47:50
  John Reaves: You don't know what you're gonna encounter.
• 47:52
  John Reaves: But this was one of those situations that I thought was okay.
• 47:55
  John Reaves: And if someone asked me the question, would I ever do that again?
• 47:58
  John Reaves: I absolutely wouldn't, and actually have, not necessarily to a homeless person, but I think where I get my most, I guess, pleasure or I probably am at my best when I could do something for somebody else.
• 48:12
  John Reaves: I believe we all have been put on this earth to do just that.
• 48:16
  John Reaves: I think, you know, if I get something out of it in the end, that's wonderful and fine.
• 48:20
  John Reaves: But it's all about what can I do to help somebody else.
• 48:23
  Jeanne: Yeah, that's wonderful.
• 48:24
  Jeanne: Okay.
• 48:25
  Jeanne: Well, I know everybody's enjoyed, you know, hearing you and hearing about your book and all your ideas.
• 48:31
  Jeanne: I want to put up information on how people can contact you.
• 48:36
  Jeanne: You actually said that they should just go straight to your website and that you've got a lot of data out there for them to take advantage of, which I think is wonderful.
• 48:46
  Jeanne: I'm gonna go do that myself.
• 48:48
  Jeanne: And yeah, you gave me a great quote.
• 48:50
  Jeanne: You want to talk about that?
• 48:52
  John Reaves: Well, the most important promotion you will ever earn is the one no one can give you.
• 49:00
  John Reaves: It begins the moment you stop waiting to be chosen and start choosing your own growth.
• 49:08
  John Reaves: I remember sitting down and when I was writing the book, and that came to me, and I just said, where did this come from?
• 49:20
  John Reaves: And it really was about I've heard so many people call the workplace a war zone.
• 49:28
  John Reaves: And I believe that the workplace is actually a classroom.
• 49:33
  John Reaves: And I wrote this book, and I really hope it resonates with other people.
• 49:38
  John Reaves: But my biggest thing is to help people to stop chasing validation and start choosing their intention of growth.
• 49:46
  John Reaves: So when I think about this, I think about all of those times when I thought I was up for a promotion, I thought I was up for, you know, the bigger office in a suite.
• 49:58
  John Reaves: And when I start to think through, does all of those things really matter at the end of the day?
• 50:04
  John Reaves: Do is that what I want in my tombstone?
• 50:06
  John Reaves: The answer is absolutely not.
• 50:08
  John Reaves: I cannot tell you how many funerals that I've attended over the past, let's say, two years, and they were talking about somebody being, you know, a beast in the workplace.
• 50:19
  John Reaves: People could care less about that.
• 50:21
  John Reaves: They're more interested in what kind of person, what kind of person were you?
• 50:25
  John Reaves: You know, what type of contribution did you make in your community to your family?
• 50:30
  John Reaves: Were you present for your family?
• 50:32
  John Reaves: A lot of people were not, you know, and you're trying to figure out what you're gonna talk about because this person was nowhere to be found because they were so busy working.
• 50:40
  John Reaves: And I never wanted that to be me.
• 50:43
  John Reaves: And I don't want that to be the people that potentially read my book.
• 50:47
  John Reaves: I want them to really think about what it's gonna take to get them to make that turn and say, I do need to look at this differently.
• 50:56
  Jeanne: Right, right.
• 50:57
  Jeanne: Well, that's great.
• 50:58
  Jeanne: Well, thank you so much for being on the show.
• 51:00
  Jeanne: But I I want you to come back again.
• 51:03
  Jeanne: I hope I hope you'll promise us to do that.
• 51:05
  Jeanne: And then I will.
• 51:06
  Jeanne: For those listening, I hope this resonated with you.
• 51:09
  Jeanne: And if it does, reach out to John because I'm sure he's more than happy to talk with you.
• 51:14
  John Reaves: I would.
• 51:14
  John Reaves: And the other thing too is in probably in the next few days, I really will be officially, I call it starting my YouTube page.
• 51:21
  John Reaves: And it's gonna be all about you know, doing what I can to answer questions and to talk about some of these experiences and so forth, because I think it's important that I find different mediums to have a conversation.
• 51:35
  John Reaves: But one of the things that I probably would call my superpower, if somebody send me an uh an email, I will respond to them pretty quickly.
• 51:44
  John Reaves: Oh, great.
• 51:45
  John Reaves: A lot of people, you know, will make you wait for two and three days and so forth.
• 51:49
  John Reaves: If I see it, I will respond to it.
• 51:51
  John Reaves: That's just how I am.
• 51:53
  Jeanne: That's fantastic.
• 51:54
  Jeanne: Yeah, so those listening, um, this is your Admiral of the Unexpected, and I hope you join us next week for another guest.
• 52:01
  Jeanne: And until then, I wish you all smooth sailing.
• 52:05
  Jeanne: Thanks for joining me on Project Candor, where the doors are open, the stories are unexpected, and the treasure is always real.
• 52:13
  Jeanne: If today's episode made you laugh or think, follow the show and share it with your crew.
• 52:18
  Jeanne: Otherwise, I might just make you swab the deck.
• 52:21
  Jeanne: I'm Jeanne Andersen, your Admiral of the Unexpected.
• 52:25
  Jeanne: See you on the next voyage.