Latest / The Christian Reeve Podcast / Mike Sheppard (From Hospital Radio.) | The Christian Reeve Podcast #339

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Mike Sheppard (From Hospital Radio.) | The Christian Reeve Podcast #339 · The Christian Reeve Podcast

• 0:00
  Hello and welcome to another episode of the Christian Reeve
• 0:03
  Podcast. Today's guest is the singer and
• 0:06
  bassist of three piece Midwest emo band Hospital.
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  Full stop. Welcome to the show.
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  How you doing? Yeah, good.
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  It's hostile radio, full stop. Yeah.
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  Yeah, yeah. So I'll yeah, I fucked up the
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  only part that I'm just going to say this, right?
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  So I was so fixated on this full stop thing, right?
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  Because there are other bands called Hospital Radio.
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  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you guys went with the
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  hospital radio full stop thing. Let's let's start there.
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  Is there a story behind this name?
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  Why the full stop? So many questions.
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  So we just go by hospital radio publicly, but the full stop came
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  from Spotify. So the fact that there are so
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  many bands with hospital radio on Spotify, we were like, oh,
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  well, we want to keep the name, but we need some
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  differentiation. So we did hospital radio full
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  stop. And then we spoke to a guy and
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  he was saying, well, if you're hospital radio dot kind of like
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  Anderson dot pack, I don't know if you've seen that you you kind
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  of need it in your branding. So we we then did that, yeah.
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  It's bit like when you're trying to come up with different e-mail
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  addresses and you're just like, I'll just put a number there.
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  I'll that do. Yeah, a number, a letter that's
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  changed everything like that? No, absolutely.
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  So when, yeah, when you get introduced on stage, it's just
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  hospital radio. It's not hospital radio, full
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  stop. Just hospital Radio Austria.
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  But when we say the Instagram, everyone's like, God, I can't
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  find you. And I'm like, I know I I so I
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  say it every time. Now we're on stage.
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  Just hostile radio, full stop. I don't know.
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  I don't know why I'm just so immense surprised by this.
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  Thing All right, let's get back on track, shall we?
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  So walk us through your journey into music.
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  Where did it all begin begin for you?
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  Oh well. God.
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  So I've been playing music probably since I was about four
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  or five years old, typical recorder lessons in school.
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  And then we had the opportunity to pick up an instrument at the
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  age of like, like an actual instrument.
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  Not saying the recorder's not an actual instrument can be used
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  amazingly, but by a group of four year olds, it's very
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  subjective, but, but about the age of sort of 6-7, like between
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  the ages of six and seven, My, my mum and dad said, do you want
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  to play some music? So I was like, absolutely.
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  So chose clarinet and then play clarinet and went on saxophone
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  and then went at the age sort of 1617 notice my dad had a guitar,
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  started picking up and playing the guitar and then just sort of
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  went from there play bass and bands, guitar and bands, things
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  like that. And just was absolutely obsessed
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  with the whole, with the whole play music bit.
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  Play music live, writing and recording as well.
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  Before we get into that, I just want to come back to the
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  recorder thing. So I don't think I've ever seen,
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  and I don't know, correct me if I'm wrong, maybe there is a band
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  or famous artist out there that that uses a recorder.
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  Is there any band or artist that like is famous for just using a
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  recorder? Because in my estimations, I've
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  only ever heard it being used to torture, you know, primary
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  school teachers. I I I think I'm probably on the
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  same same point of view as you. So a family friend actually is
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  grade 8IN recorder. So yeah, so that was, that was
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  mind blowing. When we used to sort of when I
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  was much younger, they would always play like play like
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  Christmas songs on recorder and they played very well.
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  Like very well as as you can imagine, great 8 recorder.
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  They're going to be to a high standard.
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  But yeah, no, don't know anyone that's got a famous recorder
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  section. Because it's interesting you
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  said like, oh, I then I transitioned to the clarinet and
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  in my mind, recorder is like the warm up for like, oh, OK, if
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  you're taking this seriously now you get to graduate and do
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  clarinet. And that makes sense in my mind
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  because you could actually have was it the, is it the still
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  section? Is that is that right?
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  Brass wind. Oh yeah.
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  Brass woodwind. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  Right. Yeah, yeah.
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  Yeah, it's exactly, Yeah, yeah. So yeah, I I almost felt like
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  playing clarinet was like getting my pen license in
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  primary school. So I moved away from pencil,
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  moved away from recorder, got my pen license.
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  What was that shit? All about it's got no idea mate.
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  Got no idea. No idea.
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  I don't know if it's still a thing, but let's just briefly
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  talk about that. So when we were at school, how
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  old are you, by the way? At. 30, seems to me, yeah, yeah,
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  yeah. Right.
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  So when we were at school, for some reason in primary school,
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  it was a really fucking big deal in the later years to work up
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  towards a pen license. So we will obviously had to use
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  pencil. And then there were a few kids
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  that got to use pens instead. And yeah, they'd graduated to do
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  that by demonstrating that they had good handling.
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  But then if you waited like a year or something, we all ended
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  up using them anyway so it didn't really fucking.
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  Yeah, yeah. No, absolutely they.
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  Really made a big deal out of that shit as well.
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  It's just. It's just being competitive for
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  competitive sake, I think, and it's just sort of been
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  throughout the entire schooling and everything.
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  It was just it was driven into you, isn't it?
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  You know, like do well in sport, do well in this.
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  I mean, and you know, it's good. I think achievements great, but
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  I don't think you need to be competitive about writing.
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  Yeah. What you're saying that your pen
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  license didn't take you far in life, Mike is?
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  My pen license is not currently being used in my current job.
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  Considering our types type for 9 hours a day, I think that's
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  about it. I always just think about like
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  when the teachers used to say like, oh, you won't be able to
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  use a calculator in the future. And then that's literally what
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  everyone fucking does in every instance.
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  No one's using their brain anymore, which is kind of
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  depressing, but it was true. Like every time I work in like a
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  customer service job and I've got to do a quick transaction
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  and the computer can't do it for me.
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  Guess whose phone is coming out? Straight, straight away.
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  I don't, I think. I think I've only ever done
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  like, like maybe in a pub quiz. I think that might be the last
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  time I didn't did not use the calculator, but that's about it.
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  That's about it. It's good.
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  To have like good mental math skills and stuff like that, but
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  like whenever it gets to kind of long division and shit like
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  that, it's like it's quicker and probably more efficient to use
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  the computer and if anything to double check your answer.
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  So if you if you have good math skills and you can do that, why
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  the fuck are we talking about maths?
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  What? Fuck.
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  Sorry, I just realized of all the things I hate maths, I
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  loathe maths with a passion. Maths is like the scourge of my
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  existence. I don't think about maths
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  anymore, but for some reason we're talking about fucking
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  maths. Let's move on.
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  Fuck maths. So would you, is there any
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  specific thing that like, because you you mentioned a few
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  different things that got you into music there.
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  And I wonder, like you said, your dad played guitar, was that
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  like a particularly big kind of influence for you or?
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  So I'll say, I'll say my dad didn't play guitar.
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  My dad was bought a guitar by my mum for like a, for like a, like
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  a birthday or an anniversary present or something.
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  But, but they were both. But both my mum and dad were
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  very musical. So my dad was well into drama,
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  did loads of musicals like he was, he was a drama an English
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  teacher and ran sort of like an amateur dramatics thing.
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  So you would direct loads of musicals and things like that.
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  And my mum played the flute to a very high level.
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  My mum sings really well. So I had sort of all this music
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  coming at me all the time. So anything from, you know, West
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  Side Story to The Beatles to punk music, from my dad to
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  everything. So I just had it all being fed
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  into me all at once. So yeah, yeah, it was great.
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  So let's let's bring it to to hospital Radio.
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  How? How did Hospital Radio come
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  together? Well, the the ancient and
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  archaic social media network that is now Facebook got us all
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  together. There was a so hospital radio
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  was started, I think pre COVID or maybe just as COVID was about
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  or maybe just in sort of in between or something.
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  But it was a guy called Jose and Russo, who is our who is our
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  guitarist. They formed a band with a couple
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  of other people. They tried to get some practices
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  going. I don't think people showed up
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  and things like that. They, you know, they're how
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  meeting me in a pub, Yeah, we're going to make a band.
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  We're going to take over the world.
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  And then it all just sort of falls apart.
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  But they, they, they, they wrote a few songs over COVID, I think
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  sort of together. They, you know, they would just
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  sort of go back and forward between each other.
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  And then they got to a point where I think I moved up to
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  Manchester in either 2022-2023, probably 2023.
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  And I'm from Hereford. So yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  So the West Midlands near Wales, we're not really sure what we
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  are. And yeah, so moved up and I just
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  saw this advert come out and yeah, so me and me and the
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  drummer both joined and it was originally a four piece.
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  We were going to try and get a bassist as well.
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  So I was, I sort of signed up to be the singer.
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  We're going to try and get a bassist as.
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  And as you can imagine, trying to organize four people at one
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  time is near impossible. Trying to organize 5 people
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  would have been even worse. So I decided I just said, look,
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  I'll pick up bass, I'll play. And then Jose's wife had a baby.
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  So obviously, you know, life takes life takes life takes the
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  president there, doesn't it? And so he, he, he left.
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  And then now it's just just us 3.
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  So yeah, yeah, yeah, just me, Russo and Curtis.
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  Yeah. Would you say the dynamic has
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  changed a lot in going from a four piece to a three piece?
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  100% So we, how, how would you put it?
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  So I've always kind of written songs as a, as kind of a, as
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  kind of a thing like I've always just just like on an acoustic
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  guitar. And then later on getting into
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  music, music technology, sort of writing on a Mac, but mostly
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  acoustic guitar now just sort of right.
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  And I would just bring the ideas, bring song ideas.
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  And then and Jose was fantastic at like tearing songs apart and
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  bringing them back to go. So he would like take sections
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  and be like, this is cool, but let's move this to here, let's
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  do all that. And that's that's kind of
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  changed. And also the sounds changed.
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  So we Jose was very pop punk influenced, like Green Day,
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  blink, all that sort of stuff, like kind of pop punk, skate
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  punk sort of stuff. And, and Russo was very Midwest
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  emo. So like free throw American
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  football out, like all those sorts of amazing, amazing
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  Midwest bands. And we were kind of doing a bit
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  more of the pop punky thing. And we've kind of gone more over
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  into the Midwest thing, but we aren't even that Midwest.
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  Our guitar stuff is very Midwest, but I'd say the rest of
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  our stuff is kind of emo adjacent to put it.
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  For those who, because I know exactly what you're talking
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  about, but for those who don't know, like if you had to kind of
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  explain to an alien or someone who's just has no idea, what
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  exactly is Midwest emo as a genre?
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  So emo as a thing, as a general thing is probably easier.
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  So that comes from a hardcore, hardcore punk and emotional
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  punk. And then down the years from the
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  80s all the way through to now, you've ended up with a huge sort
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  of scene which goes from anything from My Chemical
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  Romance all the way over to American football and Sunny Day
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  Real Estate and all that. Now, within that kind of vein,
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  Midwest emo has can often have things like jazz influences,
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  sort of time signature changes, can be a bit mathy has that kind
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  of, you know, you'll be like 441 minute and then 7-8 and then
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  something else and then something else really twinkly,
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  like guitars. If you're from Champaign IL,
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  yeah, you're in, you're in Midwest lands.
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  So yeah, that's kind of it, yeah.
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  I'd say. Yeah, I'd say it's.
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  And then obviously very emotive, some may say depressing lyrics.
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  Yeah, I, I love all those people on TikTok that do like, oh, I'm
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  going to take this song and like make it into a Midwest emo song.
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  And it's, it always turns out, excellent.
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  I think better. I think I think better.
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  I've yet to hear a bad Midwest emo song like that's that's
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  yeah, I challenge anyone to find me a bad one.
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  There you go. That's your challenge for today,
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  right? Let's because you mentioned a
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  little bit about your song, right?
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  Let's let's jump straight into that.
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  So what is your kind of approach to songwriting?
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  Because everyone's a little bit different.
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  So I, I have kind of two ways, which is which is so I'll like
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  have. So for example, just just
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  messing around on guitar, just playing guitar chords, see if
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  guitar like a guitar pop fits together.
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  Then if that fits together quickly, normally the lyrics
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  come immediately. So I will sort of have 95% of
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  the lyrics done within within that kind of just getting guitar
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  chords laid out and some take a fair bit longer.
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  So I'll have like lyric lines and stuff and and I'll try and
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  piece some together and then try and get that to fit.
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  So it's normally guitar first, but then with longer songs, like
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  songs that take a bit more, it can be lyrics than guitar.
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  Yeah. I mean, I hate to say this, but
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  I stand by it and still think so, that I learned to play
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  guitar from learning all of Ed Sheeran's first album.
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  The first album is it's amazing, absolutely amazing songwriter.
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  And I learned the whole thing, and that's how I learned to play
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  kind of your open basic chords. I'm not so sure about the latest
• 14:09
  stuff, but the first album, first few EPS, everything you
• 14:13
  did there, absolutely incredible.
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  So that's how I learned to play guitar, was through that, was
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  through that way. It brings me into a solid point
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  actually, which is that like, whenever people ask me like, oh,
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  how, how do I learn to play guitar?
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  Like, how did you learn? And it's like, well, for me,
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  back in my day, it was all like chord books and shit and trying
• 14:33
  to figure out what the fuck are these chord diagrams and stuff.
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  And it wasn't until early Internet in the mid 2000s that I
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  still sort of begun to grasp it a little bit.
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  But like yourself, I started going, oh, I want to learn this
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  song. And sometimes it'd be a bit
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  complex and I'd have to like learn like, oh, what's this
• 14:52
  chord? This is a Asus.
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  What the fuck is that? And then you just discover like
• 14:57
  your favorite chords, I guess. And then obviously there's the
• 15:01
  the key chords that are used in most songs and then all the
• 15:05
  songs that kind of or genres, sorry, that that tend to use and
• 15:09
  favor certain chords or certain tunings and then.
• 15:13
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, just go into that this
• 15:15
  rabbit hole of stuff. But honestly, that's I've
• 15:19
  discovered a lot of really, really useful chords that I've
• 15:23
  used again and again through that mindset.
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  And I think for anyone who's just starting out on guitar,
• 15:27
  that's a really good way of getting into it, is to just kind
• 15:30
  of pick an artist that you like and, and just Start learning
• 15:33
  their tunes. Is there any advice you could
• 15:34
  give to up and coming guitarists based on your experiences?
• 15:39
  So I, I, I would say that you will learn what you want to so
• 15:46
  things like if you, if you so like, I know.
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  So I've seen so many Instagram guitarists now who like, just
• 15:52
  like, I like playing like the bands like Polyphia and Chon,
• 15:55
  just like immediately, like just don't imagine that's the
• 15:59
  standard. Imagine just just find something
• 16:02
  you like that's simple enough and then put it together.
• 16:04
  I don't know if you ever used him.
• 16:06
  Marty's guitars, the guy on YouTube, he you always wore like
• 16:10
  a potpie hat. And he would, and he sort of had
• 16:14
  like a like a middle America accent and he'd play you always.
• 16:18
  And he used to play either acoustic or like a big Epiphone
• 16:20
  sort of dot kind of thing. And he would teach like, hey, I,
• 16:23
  I think he taught me how to play fast car and all that sort of
• 16:26
  thing just from YouTube. And I was just like, yeah, yeah.
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  It's a lot easier than people think.
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  I, I, because I, I know how I know what you mean.
• 16:34
  It's quite daunting when you see all these guitarists and, and
• 16:36
  they're like just sweet picking and all this shit.
• 16:38
  And it's like a lot of that is just showing off.
• 16:42
  Yeah. It's showboating, isn't it?
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  It's that's all. It is, yeah.
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  I mean, I've said this in so many bands I've been in and.
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  And like, when people have asked me about music and songwriting,
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  and I think that the best way to approach a song is play to the
• 16:58
  song. It's not to say you can't have
• 17:00
  some impressive stuff in it, but if you go and you listen to like
• 17:03
  any Eddie Van Halen solo, it will work perfectly within the
• 17:08
  song. It won't be like, out of place,
• 17:12
  you know? And I think that that comes from
• 17:15
  really paying attention to the song itself rather than just
• 17:18
  paying attention to your little, you know, no.
• 17:24
  No, it's exactly that. I mean, that's kind of how we've
• 17:27
  seen the band sort of come together as well because we
• 17:31
  we're like, because we're only three piece, we can't really
• 17:33
  have solos. So, and Russo, being the big
• 17:37
  Midwest fan that he is, I'm finding myself much more
• 17:40
  supporting him on bass instead of having to go off in my own
• 17:44
  way where bands like TTNG, you can see the impressiveness
• 17:47
  across both. Whereas I'm just like, I'll do,
• 17:50
  I'll just, I'll just do my singing bit and then he can
• 17:54
  singing and bass bit and then he can just go wild and all these
• 17:57
  beautiful, amazing melodies and all that sort of stuff.
• 17:59
  So, yeah, that's kind of, that's kind of like he does do all like
• 18:03
  some very impressive stuff, but it very much fits the song,
• 18:08
  Yeah. I think, I think as well if
• 18:09
  you're, if you're singing and playing guitar, singing and
• 18:11
  playing bass, like you're more focused on that.
• 18:14
  Like, I know, I know how it is. Like it's you're more focused on
• 18:17
  the the vocal side of things. I've got friends who've been
• 18:20
  like, oh, your song is pretty easy, like, you know, pretty
• 18:23
  easy to play. And it's like, yeah, because I
• 18:25
  focus on the vocal melodies, man, like.
• 18:27
  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I try to do some
• 18:29
  interesting stuff guitar wise, but you always have to remember
• 18:32
  if you're going to be singing on that track, then having like a
• 18:35
  really difficult math metal song or whatever the fuck is going
• 18:38
  to. Just something to think about.
• 18:41
  Have you, have you ever written a song like or a part on guitar
• 18:44
  that you're like, because I've done this myself?
• 18:47
  Have you ever written a part on guitar and you're like, wow,
• 18:48
  that's amazing. And then you try and sing over
• 18:50
  the top and you're like, there is no way I can sing over that?
• 18:52
  Have you, have you ever done that?
• 18:54
  Because I've done that so many times.
• 18:56
  Yeah. But also, I think I find the
• 18:59
  bigger problem I have is when I go into the studio to record
• 19:02
  something, I'm like, so I already struggle playing this
• 19:09
  live anyway. When I put this down and it's
• 19:13
  the definitive, this is what people will expect to hear.
• 19:16
  Maybe instead of just continuously playing this part
• 19:21
  while I sing, I'll make like a easier version when I'm singing
• 19:26
  and when I'm not singing harder. And then they, yeah, you know.
• 19:31
  And yeah, no, no, absolutely. If it was lazy.
• 19:35
  But at the same time it's like by the end of the day I'm going
• 19:38
  to be the one playing it. So, you know?
• 19:40
  Yeah, but I don't. But then again, that's what you
• 19:42
  know loop pedals are for, so. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's
• 19:48
  true. That's true.
• 19:48
  I don't know. It's like right now I'm just
• 19:50
  acoustic, so it's I'm trying to get to a point where I have a
• 19:53
  band and then I can kind of work around that.
• 19:56
  But like, a lot of it kind of goes back to what we were saying
• 19:59
  before, you know, you build around what's going on in the
• 20:03
  songs, and then when you're live, I mean, it's kind of a
• 20:05
  whole other. Thing entirely, isn't it?
• 20:08
  You, you build it around what you want to represent the sound
• 20:13
  to be. So it's like what's on record.
• 20:16
  It might sound different live. You might do it faster.
• 20:18
  You might change parts. You know, it's yeah.
• 20:21
  Which brings you on to the next question.
• 20:23
  Is there any major differences in how you play things live
• 20:27
  compared to on record? So we'll add things.
• 20:31
  So for, for, for example, so say, say like in a guitar part,
• 20:39
  there'll be like a, a melody and then like space and then say,
• 20:44
  say we've written a whole song out.
• 20:45
  So we work a lot with a guy called Ryan Jordan, who's down
• 20:49
  in Herefordshire, who records at AR, which is his studio.
• 20:54
  And he's, he's, he's a fantastic.
• 20:57
  So he's a fantastic, like producer.
• 20:59
  He's a, he's a producer's producer.
• 21:00
  He's like, he's kind of like he'll, he'll suggest so much
• 21:04
  stuff and add and like add and things like that.
• 21:06
  So he works really well with the point of being like, oh, there
• 21:09
  could be a cool melody here. So there could be a cool thing
• 21:13
  here. And you know, lo and behold, I'm
• 21:15
  like, I'm like Russo, like do you think?
• 21:19
  Or if it's leads to drums, I'm like Curtis, do you think?
• 21:21
  Like I really take a step back. But within doing that, what's
• 21:25
  fantastic is that the Russo will work out a part or Curtis will
• 21:29
  work out a part that's easy to play from the one section to the
• 21:31
  other. So then it becomes the live
• 21:32
  performance after. So it can then just be rehearsed
• 21:35
  and things like that. And that is exactly my
• 21:38
  expectation from a producer. Like I've been in the studio
• 21:40
  recently recording music for next year.
• 21:44
  And that is exactly what I expected from shout out to Harry
• 21:49
  and he and he he delivered and and it was the thing about it as
• 21:52
  well as like there's was that initial apprehension, like, Oh,
• 21:55
  I don't want to rocked the boat. But at the same time, artists,
• 22:00
  if you're going in the studio, open the door to the producer,
• 22:04
  let them in and kind of because they're going to push you to
• 22:08
  your limits. The good producer will push you
• 22:10
  to your limits and push you to get the best sound out of
• 22:13
  yourself, but also to give you an objective opinion because
• 22:16
  they're not in the band, but they're going to hear things
• 22:20
  from a listener's perspective that might potentially enhance
• 22:23
  your sound. I'm not saying like you should
• 22:25
  just always be like, yeah, you're right, But like, you
• 22:27
  know. You hear the mouse?
• 22:30
  Yeah, I think there's something to it, yeah.
• 22:32
  For sure, yeah. Because I've been in bands with
• 22:34
  Ryan before and that's kind of. And I've recorded with him on
• 22:38
  other projects, like other bands I've been in and stuff like
• 22:40
  that. So I, I like the way that he's
• 22:42
  like, oh, this melody would be good here and bringing this in
• 22:45
  would be good here because. And I think that the lads as
• 22:49
  well appreciate it because it's like, I've kind of had an open
• 22:53
  door policy with him of just being like, I'll shoot ideas to
• 22:56
  him, he shows ideas to me, stuff like that.
• 22:57
  And then and then and then the lads have just come in and been
• 23:02
  like, yeah, I thought, yeah, so yeah.
• 23:05
  Let's talk about shows, let's talk about live performances.
• 23:10
  So we'll start, we'll start negative and come back positive.
• 23:15
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 23:18
  Worst show so far. Let's go.
• 23:20
  Oh. In this band or ever.
• 23:29
  Any stories that come to mind? I guess, yeah.
• 23:33
  Oh dear. Well, there's a few so in this
• 23:36
  band. I don't think it was anyone's
• 23:39
  fault particularly there, but there's two instances I can
• 23:42
  think of. So unfortunately Mother Mary's
• 23:45
  is closed down, which is a big shame.
• 23:47
  I, I love, love that venue. Great pizza, great pints, just
• 23:52
  just a good, good, good, good place.
• 23:55
  Our second ever show, right? So we played in Barry down in
• 23:58
  South Wales the night before and then and then drove up to then
• 24:02
  play in Mother Mary's the next day.
• 24:05
  So our second ever show, well, halfway through the set I've
• 24:09
  realized, oh, I can't see. I can't see anything on stage.
• 24:12
  I've got no looming lays, so I'm playing all the wrong notes all
• 24:16
  the time. And then and then so I just
• 24:19
  asking, can I get a light on me? So that's great.
• 24:21
  That's results. And then all of a sudden this
• 24:23
  really heavy delay starts kicking in on my vocals and I
• 24:26
  don't know why I don't, I don't think it was anyones fault
• 24:29
  whatsoever. I think I think basically the
• 24:31
  mixer just sort of started to play up.
• 24:33
  I saw the sound guy trying to fix it, everything.
• 24:35
  So every line was like I, I no, no, no, no, no.
• 24:39
  It was just by the end of it, it was, it was, it was really
• 24:43
  funny. It was really funny A another
• 24:49
  one, which was a show that wasn't necessarily bad, wasn't
• 24:52
  necessarily bad for any kind of reason.
• 24:53
  I mean, we are such a small time band, so we're not expecting
• 24:56
  that many people there, but we played to one guy at a table
• 25:00
  with them. This with with with then this
• 25:03
  Irish punk band that we were that we were supporting called,
• 25:06
  I think no matrix or yeah, no matrix or something like that.
• 25:10
  And they, they the the headline bomber class Absolutely amazing.
• 25:16
  And we were playing in Northwich and it was this really, really
• 25:18
  cool pub. But the but it was just this one
• 25:21
  guy and he was having the best time of his life.
• 25:24
  But we but we were just like, I feel, I just feel a bit like
• 25:28
  like, you know, just like sort of unawares.
• 25:32
  So yeah, I'd say those two. There is one other, which is a
• 25:35
  solo show where I went to the toilet, thought everything was
• 25:40
  OK, and then it came back out, Played a solo show and realized
• 25:45
  that I had a really big wet patch on the inside of my leg.
• 25:49
  So I tied my shirt around and I was just like, right, I've got
• 25:52
  to keep that there, keep that. And it was, honestly, I've never
• 25:55
  been so annoyed at myself. So the show wasn't great.
• 25:59
  I've done that. Just about to go on stage, I
• 26:01
  tied my shirt around me like an apron.
• 26:03
  I looked, I looked. I looked a bit deranged.
• 26:07
  I didn't really know what was going on, but yeah.
• 26:09
  So that's three for you. That's three for you.
• 26:11
  This is why we always wear black jeans people.
• 26:13
  Yeah, man, yeah. I was wearing like cream
• 26:17
  Carhartt, like Carhartt, like cargo trousers.
• 26:20
  So it just wasn't the one. Wasn't the one.
• 26:23
  It reminds me of an old Ricky Gervais story where he's talking
• 26:27
  about going to the doctors and I don't know for what what reason.
• 26:33
  He had to. Maybe it was a prostate.
• 26:35
  No, not prostate some. I don't think he was like doing
• 26:38
  the thing where it's like they cut the balls and they and you
• 26:40
  cough for some shit. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 26:42
  I don't know. I think it might have actually
• 26:43
  been for prostate, but yeah, I don't know.
• 26:46
  It's a thing guys have to do in their 40s anyway.
• 26:51
  He. Oh, that was right.
• 26:53
  He had to piss in a cup for the test and obviously when he come
• 26:58
  back, he realized that like he had a bit of a same thing, a
• 27:01
  wet, big wet patch there. So he tried to like fold his
• 27:06
  boxes in a way to sort of hide it, but it's there.
• 27:10
  And he used to say like. You know the.
• 27:12
  Doctor saw it, everybody saw it. Like I would just die inside
• 27:18
  man. Oh, it was.
• 27:19
  So it was honestly, it was, yeah.
• 27:21
  I mean, I mean, I mean, yeah. I mean, the worst thing is, is
• 27:25
  that the venue that that happened is one of my favorite
• 27:28
  pubs in the world. So if thankfully, I'm hoping
• 27:30
  that I'm hoping no one saw. That no one would have cared,
• 27:33
  man. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 27:36
  All right, let's let's bring you out of your trauma and into a
• 27:40
  place best shows you've played so far.
• 27:43
  I've got what? I've got 1 immediately.
• 27:45
  So we played a show on Saturday, which would have been the 22nd,
• 27:51
  22nd, is that right? 22nd at the Eagle Inn, which was
• 27:54
  Organized by Power. Amazing.
• 27:58
  Like such cool room with Organized by Power Promotions,
• 28:02
  which is kind of like an amalgamation of this bad, this
• 28:08
  other emo band when suddenly and their manager JJ, they do the
• 28:13
  single power promotions and they put the show on with us opening
• 28:17
  when suddenly on 2nd latchkey kids and campfire social
• 28:22
  headlining. Honestly my favorite show I've
• 28:25
  ever played. It was it was a bit it's a it's
• 28:27
  quite a nice tight room. So there was enough people in
• 28:30
  there to make it really like feel really feel really packed
• 28:33
  and really, really cool. The sound guy, John ran a tight
• 28:38
  ship, wasn't taking no mess in, but best sound I've ever had.
• 28:43
  I could hear everything and like and after the show he was
• 28:47
  incredibly complimentary. Like like I've just thought best
• 28:51
  show I've ever been part of immediately like and I would
• 28:54
  recommend if any musician gets approached by power to play,
• 28:58
  they will give you an A mate. If you're either headlining or
• 29:00
  supporting, they will give you an amazing, amazing line up that
• 29:03
  will compliment you fantastically.
• 29:04
  So yeah, they're definitely big up to when suddenly in power.
• 29:07
  Promotions are fantastic. So I saw that being advertised.
• 29:11
  I wanted to go but I couldn't because I was working.
• 29:13
  No, absolutely it was. It was great.
• 29:16
  It was absolutely amazing. Let's talk feedback.
• 29:22
  How? How long has the band been
• 29:23
  together now, roughly? I mean, I say 2 years, but we've
• 29:26
  only been gigging since May. So because think like things so
• 29:31
  like things happen kind of since how long should.
• 29:35
  Be a music out for as well. July.
• 29:42
  Because it's all pretty new ish in a.
• 29:45
  Sense July. I'd say July.
• 29:47
  Yeah, yeah, July. What?
• 29:51
  Let's get an idea of, of like, what people are saying, because
• 29:54
  I, I can see that your music's reaching people around the world
• 29:56
  as well. So that's awesome.
• 29:57
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. The good and the bad.
• 30:01
  What? What's the kind of best and
• 30:03
  worst feedback you've sort of received so far?
• 30:05
  So I don't know if you've seen BSBTV.
• 30:09
  So it's like blood, sweat and beers if.
• 30:11
  Not that I mean. Yeah, if you write rock music or
• 30:15
  anything, like, I mean, I'd say it to you, Christian as well.
• 30:17
  Definitely put your stuff on there.
• 30:19
  They're a Twitch channel, so you just submit, they review it live
• 30:23
  on and normally they have like an industry person on or like a
• 30:25
  member of a band on just like review and sort of go through
• 30:28
  the go through the the songs and stuff.
• 30:32
  And we uploaded our first tune Dreaming, and they were
• 30:36
  incredibly complementary. Like like comparing us to bands
• 30:39
  like Hot Mulligan who who are like possibly.
• 30:44
  I think Tates is one of my favorite vocalists.
• 30:46
  I think the first album pilot for Russo is possibly one of the
• 30:51
  greatest things ever made for him.
• 30:53
  So, yeah. So we were, we were super hyped
• 30:54
  about that. And they were just really
• 30:56
  complimentary about it being our first release and about how we
• 30:59
  can only go up from there. Lee, not so good feedback.
• 31:05
  I've seen people roll their eyes live.
• 31:08
  I've seen people roll their eyes live.
• 31:10
  Yeah. Because we're often on quite.
• 31:12
  I don't know if you find this, especially because, you know, I
• 31:15
  think we we've done like an open mic together at the Grafton with
• 31:17
  Mike. Yes, yeah.
• 31:19
  And like, obviously. So you gig in Manchester where
• 31:23
  we've been put with indie bands quite frequently who just do,
• 31:27
  you know, like, and I love indie music.
• 31:29
  I think the first, the second Arctic Monkeys album is in my
• 31:32
  top ten forever. I'd love it.
• 31:33
  I think it's absolutely amazing. But yeah, I've seen people roll
• 31:36
  their eyes and not be too happy about what what we what we've
• 31:39
  been playing and stuff. So I think it's funny, man.
• 31:41
  I think it's funny. That's probably best and worst,
• 31:43
  best and worst. I gotta say on on that note as
• 31:46
  well, like if you're ever watching a band and they're out
• 31:49
  place on the lineup, it's not the band's fault they didn't
• 31:53
  fucking book themselves a promoter book that and put them
• 31:57
  together and look, it's stupid. At the end of the day, when you
• 32:00
  got sounds that clash, it's going to clash, you know, and
• 32:05
  that's not the band's fault that you've just come in there to do
• 32:08
  your thing. So, you know, it's, I don't
• 32:11
  know, I find it stuff like that is, is just, it's just part of
• 32:15
  the industry really, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, it's but, but it has
• 32:20
  gone the other way, though. So.
• 32:22
  I mean, I'll always say this, the metal scene, the metal scene
• 32:26
  is one of the most inclusive scenes in ever, full stop.
• 32:29
  They'll, you know, they'll take, they'll, they'll, they'll take
• 32:32
  anyone in and make them feel, you know, at home and warm.
• 32:36
  And we've played with metal bands and they have been nothing
• 32:39
  but like, nice and like, we've been the lightest band on a
• 32:42
  bill. We've been the heaviest band on
• 32:43
  a bill. And like with certain sort of in
• 32:46
  the alternative, alternative e-mail metal scene and, and
• 32:50
  every time we're in that scene, we're always, you know, very
• 32:53
  much accepted. Yeah, and I think like a lot of
• 32:56
  that is because metal fans in general are yeah, music fans.
• 33:01
  And yeah. OK, side note, I'm going to be
• 33:05
  cutting off all my hair next weekend.
• 33:08
  And during the course of having long hair, there's been this
• 33:13
  assumption that I'm like this big heavy metal guy.
• 33:16
  And yeah, I, I was in a few metal bands growing up.
• 33:19
  I, I don't mind that. I don't really listen to it much
• 33:21
  anymore, but I, I still, I'm big on like going to gigs now.
• 33:27
  It's, it's interesting. Like I don't really sit and
• 33:30
  listen to stuff as much as I did, but I go to gigs and I
• 33:33
  fucking love just, I don't know, there's something about that.
• 33:36
  Maybe it's because I'm playing again, I don't know.
• 33:38
  But I guess my point with this is, is there's this weird
• 33:44
  assumption, like because I don't pay too much attention to what
• 33:47
  people think about me, it's none of my business.
• 33:49
  But when people have that assumption, they're like, oh, I
• 33:52
  didn't think you would like this or that.
• 33:53
  And I'm like, well, music is vibes, isn't it?
• 33:56
  Like, yeah. Yeah, 100%.
• 33:58
  It's different things like I've whenever I've played gigs, I've
• 34:03
  paid a lot of attention to you know who, who's there, what,
• 34:08
  what you know, the other bands like I, I'd be the type of guy
• 34:12
  that would if even if I'm on last, I'd show up early and just
• 34:16
  watch all the bands because I'm fan of music, you know, like
• 34:19
  yes, might discover something you like.
• 34:22
  Yeah, no, 100%. I mean, we, I mean, it's a, it
• 34:26
  was a rule that was set out in like earliest bands was just
• 34:29
  like you get there whenever you get there, always early, you
• 34:32
  always leave, you always leave after the last band.
• 34:35
  And that's kind of something I've tried to stick to in every
• 34:39
  case, as has every, as has every other member of the hospital
• 34:43
  radio. So yeah.
• 34:45
  Static, unofficial, common courtesy.
• 34:48
  I remember, I remember I did one of Michael's shout out to
• 34:51
  Michael. He does the Grafton on a
• 34:52
  Tuesday. So he used to do this venue in
• 34:57
  Northern Quarter in. So these places are in
• 35:00
  Manchester by the way. I should, I should say that
• 35:02
  anyone who is a musician come to Manchester, there's a lot of
• 35:05
  great places to play. If you're doing open mics, I'd
• 35:09
  hit up Michaels and Sophie's as well.
• 35:13
  Some good, some good ones going around.
• 35:16
  Anyway, he was doing, I think it used to be called Blockbuster
• 35:22
  and then they changed. It Oh yeah, yeah, I, I did.
• 35:25
  We did that one. That was our first.
• 35:27
  That was just us getting out playing live and a couple of
• 35:30
  panic attacks and things like that.
• 35:32
  So that was that was fun. So I showed up with a friend and
• 35:36
  we were just playing and it was interesting.
• 35:41
  We were outside having a cigarette.
• 35:43
  I'd catching up with Michael. I'd not see him in a bit.
• 35:46
  And I was just, I just, I was just chatting and then I think I
• 35:51
  might have asked him that, oh, what's the run order?
• 35:53
  Who's, who's coming? What can we expect kind of
• 35:55
  thing. And there was a couple there and
• 35:59
  they were nice. They'd, they'd come up for the
• 36:01
  weekend from I think Brighton or somewhere, an older couple,
• 36:06
  musicians. And, you know, they were nice,
• 36:11
  but they were a little bit pushy with Michael.
• 36:15
  And me and Michael have both done open mic hosting and sound
• 36:19
  engineering and stuff. So we share a lot in common on
• 36:22
  that. And I told this story before,
• 36:25
  but it's just, if you know Michael, you'll know exactly
• 36:28
  what I mean. So they're pushing and they're
• 36:32
  like, oh, we really need to go on a suit like, first.
• 36:35
  Like, you know, we got to leave soon or something like that.
• 36:39
  They're just pushing. And but they were kind of rude
• 36:41
  with how they did it. Yeah.
• 36:43
  And so they go in and, and bear in mind, we're not, we're all
• 36:50
  early. Like it's not starting for a
• 36:52
  while anyway. And I remember just Michael's
• 36:56
  got this look on his face that he does.
• 36:59
  Yes, I know already. Look.
• 37:02
  He kind of just like rolled his eyes and then stared and looked
• 37:05
  at me like and we just didn't have to say anything.
• 37:08
  I just started laughing. I, I just always imagined
• 37:12
  whenever I've because you know, we played a lot of Michael's
• 37:16
  events and stuff and whenever he encountered that, I always just
• 37:19
  imagined the, the sound of silence being played underneath.
• 37:23
  Just there's always imagined it. I don't because it is that look.
• 37:26
  He's just so he always looks so done.
• 37:29
  Well, he's great at like, hiding his truth.
• 37:32
  Wow, I say. And you never know.
• 37:38
  You'll never know if he was annoyed at you.
• 37:41
  You'll never know. He's very professional.
• 37:43
  But yeah, you're right. I think with certain stuff like
• 37:45
  that, he's pretty done. And this couple.
• 37:49
  So This is why I brought this up.
• 37:51
  They went on first. Yeah.
• 37:53
  Everyone sat there politely and watched.
• 37:57
  It was tough to get through. Yeah, to be honest.
• 38:01
  But, you know, respectful. You know, everyone's respectful.
• 38:05
  They were quite. What's the word I would use?
• 38:11
  So bear in mind it's an open mic is a room full of musicians and
• 38:17
  that. No, no one's.
• 38:18
  Some people chat with egos and that's kind of funny.
• 38:21
  Yeah, yeah. Everyone's just got OK, mate.
• 38:23
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. But most people are just like,
• 38:27
  oh, you're right, man. You make some connections and
• 38:29
  you chat and you and you watch the music and that's it really.
• 38:32
  They were kind of devourish. Maybe the wife.
• 38:38
  Yeah, the wife was a bit devourish.
• 38:40
  And they finished. They said thank you.
• 38:44
  And they're like, oh, so we've got to go.
• 38:45
  Bye. See you.
• 38:46
  Thank you so much. And it was like, OK, see, you
• 38:51
  pushed Michael to start early. You whined, you kept whining.
• 38:56
  You got what you wanted. And then you immediately left
• 38:59
  and didn't bother to even just stay for one.
• 39:01
  Stay for one, one or two, one or two.
• 39:03
  It's 30 minutes and it's 30 minutes and I doubt the fact
• 39:06
  that on a Sunday they'd have a train to catch at that time,
• 39:10
  like like 30 minutes. Just just chill.
• 39:12
  It's a bit of what you're going to do, get home half an hour
• 39:15
  earlier. That's it.
• 39:16
  It's. I mean, an open mic sets like 15
• 39:19
  minutes. You can get exactly 15 minutes.
• 39:21
  Come on, man. Come on.
• 39:22
  Yeah. Yeah, you know, I I know.
• 39:24
  I know what you mean. I completely know what you mean.
• 39:27
  It's like, yeah, I've seen it a lot and all that sort of thing.
• 39:32
  So yeah, I know it's yes, it's a struggle to watch as well.
• 39:35
  It's a struggle to watch people do that because you're just like
• 39:38
  they so you turn up again and try and do this again.
• 39:40
  It's just going to be like another little barrier is going
• 39:44
  to come up in another little bat.
• 39:46
  Do you know what I mean? It's just.
• 39:47
  Well, I've done the opposite as well.
• 39:49
  Like, it sounds petty, but when there's like a band that doesn't
• 39:55
  bother to be there for anyone else and then they sit down and
• 39:59
  also they go on stage. I, I'm like, oh, is it time to
• 40:02
  go for a cigarette? I think so.
• 40:05
  Just go out and. Like, yeah, oh, is it time to go
• 40:08
  back in? And then you come back in and.
• 40:10
  It's like time, 15 minutes, you're like, yeah, last 30
• 40:14
  seconds. That's all good.
• 40:17
  That too can play at that game, fucker.
• 40:18
  Yeah, it's just, it's just the, it's the silliness and funniness
• 40:25
  of it all, because I think most people are just like where
• 40:30
  you're trying to promote your stuff.
• 40:32
  You know, in your case, it's like, OK, we've got a gig coming
• 40:34
  up, Let's let's help you open mics.
• 40:35
  Let's play a bit. Hey, guys, if you want to come
• 40:38
  check us out. And it works.
• 40:39
  I've I've, I've gone to gigs of bands that have played and it's.
• 40:45
  Yeah, it's a good little advertising slot, I think.
• 40:48
  Yeah. Anyway, let's move it on.
• 40:52
  Goals for the band, what we aiming for, what we're trying to
• 40:54
  do. I mean dream like dream, dream
• 40:57
  goal would be, I'd say, I'd say if we could get like an opening
• 41:01
  slot, slam dunk is possibly the our biggest dream we'd like to
• 41:07
  do. I think an achievable one.
• 41:09
  We'd like to sell out night and day if we could.
• 41:12
  I think that I think, you know, very doable.
• 41:14
  I think, I think, I think that's that's a goal.
• 41:17
  If we can do a sell out show there, I think that's possibly
• 41:19
  that. And then an album, an album sell
• 41:23
  out night and day. I think those are our two two
• 41:25
  first steps that would be. Album launch night, night and
• 41:30
  day cap. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 41:32
  If you pull it off, I give you my word, I will be there, I'll
• 41:35
  pay and I will show up and I'll be there.
• 41:37
  Amazing. Thank you, Christian.
• 41:39
  Thank you. Right, moving away just from you
• 41:43
  and just kind of talking that you're, well, actually, yeah, a
• 41:46
  little bit on you and then we'll talk about it sort of in general
• 41:48
  stuff. So did you say you've had more
• 41:50
  successful momentum from online advertising or playing shows?
• 41:53
  Because I find this is quite interesting these days.
• 41:56
  I mean success, I guess, like like listens.
• 42:02
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, I say I'd say we we've got so we've got we've
• 42:05
  got some attention from from some like some people like from
• 42:10
  some bands in America just from being on like BSBTV and things
• 42:14
  like that, which is cool. That's.
• 42:15
  Huge as well because if they come and they come and do
• 42:18
  American tour. Yeah.
• 42:21
  Europe Tour? Yeah, and they need a local
• 42:24
  artist. Boom, there you are.
• 42:25
  Yes, that's been quite, that's been quite good.
• 42:28
  I mean, but I will say this and will say this until the day I
• 42:33
  until the day I pop my clogs, Russo is the best, is the best
• 42:38
  sort of marketing PR guy ever. He goes to every single show in
• 42:43
  our scene, always Leeds, always Manchester.
• 42:46
  If it's a if it's a bigger band, he'll go to both Leeds and
• 42:48
  Manchester. He'll talk to everyone, he'll
• 42:49
  talk to merch guys, he'll talk to all that.
• 42:51
  Just get more and more people. And then we just see our
• 42:53
  listeners pop up and our listeners sort of do that.
• 42:55
  So I'd say I'd say that's like a big, a big, big thing for us.
• 42:59
  It's just been him going to shows and then we try and go to
• 43:02
  local shows as much as we can. I I try and do this especially.
• 43:07
  In our scene. I think this is a thing that and
• 43:10
  I've banged on about this time and time again, local shows,
• 43:13
  it's like a 5 or a tenner sometimes.
• 43:15
  It's free. And yeah, you meet people, you
• 43:18
  know, people, they appreciate it a lot.
• 43:22
  And you discover good music, man, you know?
• 43:24
  Like 100%. It's so much good shit, like
• 43:27
  going on in your local scene. And like you said, with Russo
• 43:31
  and his marketing exploits, like, I think there's a lot to
• 43:35
  that. I've been guessed in that it's
• 43:38
  helped me to do podcasts and get guests for the show.
• 43:44
  I think that it, it just establishes good faith.
• 43:47
  Like you're not just kind of walking around trying to get
• 43:49
  something like you. You have genuine interest.
• 43:51
  You're. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 43:52
  Interest in engaged in the scene, interested in music.
• 43:55
  You know, that's always going to go down well, like, it's yeah.
• 43:58
  Fact of the matter. Yeah, no, definitely.
• 44:01
  So where do you stand on the whole major label versus indie
• 44:05
  label debate? I feel like you'd be perfect on
• 44:09
  an indie label, personally. Maybe even an American label,
• 44:12
  but I'd use it. I because the problem is now a
• 44:16
  lot of Indies in our scene have been picked up by majors.
• 44:19
  So, you know, but some some pretty cool stuff like wax
• 44:25
  bodega. I mean, they're big now, but
• 44:28
  they had hot Mulligan arm's length loads of really cool.
• 44:32
  I think a free throw as well. Like best gig I've ever been to
• 44:36
  see live was in rebellion. Those days are gone. 10 year
• 44:39
  anniversary. They're they're they're they're
• 44:42
  amazing. So yeah, I'd say I'd love to be
• 44:44
  on much Padilla. I think.
• 44:48
  I think the dream is a publishing deal.
• 44:50
  If you can get if you can do your so I think Shikari and
• 44:54
  Shikari have have one with with pious.
• 44:57
  So they, they, they own all of their masters, all that sort of
• 45:02
  thing. I think that's the deal.
• 45:03
  And then they get like a, they, they use pies to publish their
• 45:06
  albums out and for things like making physicals and stuff like
• 45:10
  that. So I think that's the deal.
• 45:11
  I'm not 100% sure, please don't quote me on that.
• 45:14
  But like a publishing deal seems perfect if we could grow enough
• 45:16
  momentum to be able to sort of do kind of not need the thing,
• 45:23
  not need the, the big machine. But then be able to sort of have
• 45:28
  someone support us on the publishing site.
• 45:29
  That'd be fantastic, I think. I think also it completely
• 45:33
  depends on the ACT. I think you probably agree as
• 45:36
  well. Like we'd fit great on an indie
• 45:38
  or, or like an indie label, but then like a like an amazing pop
• 45:44
  act that could then do well on TV and things like that and all
• 45:47
  that. And, you know, get out there
• 45:50
  with within sort of why it's no longer TV really now, is it?
• 45:54
  But like like more popular content creators, a lot of, you
• 45:56
  know, sort of interaction with people on YouTube, things like
• 45:59
  that. If I think, you know, yeah,
• 46:01
  great, go go for go for a major label.
• 46:03
  I mean, I mean, I would be lying if I said I'm not.
• 46:06
  I wouldn't accept it. That's like because like because
• 46:08
  it is that lift. That would be fantastic.
• 46:12
  But the creative control issues might have some.
• 46:15
  But that's that's the problem, isn't it?
• 46:17
  It's it's it's creative control from Asia labels is is a real
• 46:23
  problem, I think. But how about yourself, mate?
• 46:28
  What would you say? I think I would really
• 46:34
  appreciate the resources of an indie label.
• 46:38
  Maybe I need support like I I desperately need a band.
• 46:42
  I need funds and stuff. That's always been a drag for
• 46:46
  me, but I'm very kind of protective about my music.
• 46:51
  I I like, I just feel like no one should own your music except
• 46:56
  for you. I I just, you know what I mean?
• 46:59
  Like you made it, you wrote that like, how dare they make money
• 47:02
  off of it. But then it is a business, so.
• 47:04
  Yeah. But I just think these days,
• 47:06
  like, as much as the industry is kind of screwed and everything's
• 47:11
  just kind of up in the air, there's still always the chance
• 47:15
  that you can make it on your own.
• 47:17
  Yeah, yeah. Which there just wasn't say like
• 47:20
  30 years ago. So that's a big difference for
• 47:24
  sure. Yeah, I mean, I don't know if
• 47:26
  you sit like so certain bans on TikTok just blowing up
• 47:29
  massively. So like ban like good terms who
• 47:33
  are kind of like post hardcore kind of underoath but then mixed
• 47:38
  with like a bit of American metal core sort of stuff.
• 47:40
  But they just posted, they just posted this thing about a clip,
• 47:44
  like it like how their song goes really sort of pop punk, easy
• 47:48
  core, quite a day to remember chorus, really happy sort of bit
• 47:52
  and then goes into this sort of disgusting janky breakdown.
• 47:57
  And they made a clip about that and that went massive.
• 48:00
  And that's enabled them to do really, really, really big shows
• 48:04
  like and go on and do some really cool stuff like like the
• 48:06
  Musora stuff. I don't know if you've seen that
• 48:08
  on YouTube where a band would cover, would cover a song and
• 48:12
  then they do like a set as well. So they did Blondie, they did a
• 48:16
  Blondie tune and then did all that.
• 48:18
  So yeah, like opportunities like that I doubt would have arisen
• 48:20
  if they hadn't done the TikTok thing.
• 48:24
  But so I can do see the benefit. And then but then also like, but
• 48:29
  they're doing it on their own, I think.
• 48:30
  I think, don't quote me, but I think so.
• 48:32
  Do you know what I mean? Like maybe like that way, that
• 48:34
  way would be cool. That would be cool, yeah.
• 48:39
  I'm going to throw you a random left ball question.
• 48:47
  Recently, an AI artist was featured on BBC Introducing.
• 48:52
  Oh. What are your thoughts on this
• 48:55
  and AI music as a concept? I think as an experiment,
• 49:02
  perfect, great, do it, go ahead, whatever, have it count in the
• 49:06
  charts and have it count as like as any kind of meaningful,
• 49:12
  meaningful kind of thing. I I personally think you
• 49:16
  shouldn't be able to release it. I in my opinion, like releasing
• 49:20
  maybe it maybe as like a sound clip or something like that.
• 49:22
  Just be like, oh, this is pretty cool.
• 49:24
  Like put it on TikTok or put it on this or put it wherever like
• 49:26
  that. But being able to put it on a
• 49:29
  distribution distribution service or yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 49:35
  yeah. Or like a or like a with a
• 49:37
  YouTube or like maybe YouTube is a full song or things like that.
• 49:41
  I think it can't be monetary. You can't, you can't do that
• 49:44
  because you're taking because you're taking away from people
• 49:48
  who who have spent their who have spent their entire life
• 49:52
  trying to trying to build, trying to do something, trying
• 49:54
  to make something meaningful, gain connections, gain all that.
• 49:57
  And and just completely removing the point.
• 50:00
  Was it BBC? It wasn't Harry Flynn, was it?
• 50:02
  Was it, was it Stoke? Was it a Warwick?
• 50:06
  I'm not. Sure, but I he.
• 50:09
  Was it all his beats were AI? Was it all his beats so?
• 50:12
  They interviewed this guy. Yeah, fuck me.
• 50:17
  Something like that. Yeah.
• 50:19
  Like all the music he produced with AI and it was clearly an
• 50:25
  example of like someone at the BBC Introducing team had just
• 50:28
  not like reviewed it or something and they have to
• 50:32
  listen to it. Like I've, I don't know, I'm
• 50:33
  sure you've done it, but like, I sent all my stuff in and it says
• 50:36
  like someone's listened to it. Sometimes several people listen
• 50:40
  to it. And then if it gets used, it
• 50:42
  gets used and they'll let you know.
• 50:45
  I suppose it's feasible that they don't do like big checks on
• 50:49
  things, but I feel like you kind of have to really.
• 50:51
  Oh, 100%. You know what I mean?
• 50:53
  Like that was bad press for them and the BBC needs as much good
• 50:57
  press as it can get these days, let's be honest.
• 51:00
  Yeah, yeah. I think that the, I just think
• 51:06
  that there's no, if you're taking, you're taking the point
• 51:10
  of music away from music by having AI.
• 51:13
  Do you know what I mean? Like music is about internal
• 51:16
  creation, the opportunity and the opportunity to display your
• 51:21
  idea, your feelings, the way that you would think about
• 51:23
  something out into the world through your own method of
• 51:26
  singing, rapping, producing a beat, playing guitar, playing
• 51:30
  bass, playing drums, that that's what it like into some kind of
• 51:34
  cohesive or non cohesive sound form.
• 51:39
  And AI is doing none of that. I mean like it's like the only
• 51:46
  thing is I do see I don't know this is the only thing.
• 51:49
  So please don't cancel me on this is rappers do rap over
• 51:53
  beats that are online. They are not all rappers make
• 51:56
  their own beats. But in my view, the rapper
• 52:00
  should either work with or pay someone who creates the beat
• 52:04
  properly because then it's more, it's more money going to
• 52:08
  artists, it's more more shout outs for the artist, for the for
• 52:13
  the producer, just things like that.
• 52:14
  It's like AI is removing the idea.
• 52:17
  I think AI removes the idea of of profitability and soul from
• 52:23
  music. That's, that's, that's the big
• 52:24
  one for me because I see it as a tool.
• 52:27
  I use it for things like podcasting and it's a really
• 52:30
  effective tool. It can be really useful in
• 52:34
  conjunction with the things that you're doing right.
• 52:37
  But to like purely create a thing using AI, that's for me is
• 52:42
  the contention point. So if it's like like I see it
• 52:44
  on, I think I've mentioned this on the podcast before, but like
• 52:47
  I see just endless adverts on YouTube of like, hey, use Co
• 52:53
  creator. And it's like someone, as I
• 52:56
  understand, it's like, let's say you're using that logic or some
• 53:00
  shit. And for those who don't know,
• 53:02
  it's like music production software and in like, so you'll
• 53:06
  sing a tune, you'll be like, and then you'll put it into that and
• 53:11
  then it will change your voice pitch, correct it.
• 53:14
  All these things that got me wrong, things that pitch
• 53:17
  correction have been around for years.
• 53:19
  That's, you know, or a tune that's fine, but it will
• 53:23
  completely change it. So if your voice is, let's say,
• 53:27
  quite low, like, and it will take it to the and it's like, I
• 53:32
  feel like that's false representation.
• 53:34
  I feel like that's a lie, like it's not real.
• 53:37
  Yeah, 100%. You know what I mean?
• 53:39
  Like when you, when I go listen to your music, it's real.
• 53:42
  That's three dudes playing that music and it's real.
• 53:48
  I don't know, like, you know what I mean?
• 53:49
  Whereas if it's like you release a song and you can't actually
• 53:52
  sing that way, I kind of feel like what's the point?
• 53:55
  And some people might argue well.
• 53:56
  Musical. Some days I can't though.
• 53:58
  Some days I Can't Sing that way. I will say, I will say some days
• 54:01
  I listen back to my performances.
• 54:02
  I'm like, what was I doing there?
• 54:04
  But I do see what you mean. Yeah, hundreds.
• 54:06
  Everyone has a bad day, you know what I mean?
• 54:07
  Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 54:09
  It's one thing to like, maybe not sing to your full potential
• 54:13
  one day, but like it's another when you write or rather prompt
• 54:18
  something to be created for you and you can't do it.
• 54:22
  Like I just feel like that's a lie.
• 54:28
  You know, you're misleading people.
• 54:30
  I don't know. And the concept of AI music is,
• 54:35
  is kind of baffling to me because I think it's fun in some
• 54:40
  instances. I think it's use.
• 54:42
  I thought it was great. Like the the example I thought
• 54:45
  was great was when it was used on that Beatles track and it was
• 54:49
  able to kind of take something that actually was created and
• 54:54
  was a real thing that had been written and it.
• 54:59
  It. Gave The Beatles an opportunity
• 55:01
  because they tried it in the 90s when George was still alive and
• 55:05
  they just couldn't make it work for whatever reason.
• 55:07
  Like the recording was just too degraded or not degraded.
• 55:11
  That's the wrong way. It it had like just, it was too,
• 55:18
  I don't know, muddy, cloudy, they just didn't achieve what
• 55:20
  they wanted to achieve with it. So they just kind of shelved it.
• 55:23
  But then they returned to it and they're like, all right, let's
• 55:25
  give this a final try and see if it can work.
• 55:27
  And AI was able to successfully kind of unearth it and, and
• 55:31
  bring John's voice back to life. And it it wasn't like they
• 55:35
  created a new track out of it, more or less like they kind of
• 55:41
  they didn't overuse it. It was part of the song, but it
• 55:43
  wasn't all of the song. And now it's left us a beautiful
• 55:47
  kind of lasting final track for the for the band.
• 55:49
  And I just thought that was that was a good use of the AI, if
• 55:53
  maybe in music. Absolutely.
• 55:55
  I I, I, I think because it was it part of that get back thing
• 55:59
  they did the they did the 8 hour Disney Plus thing and then was
• 56:03
  it part of that? No, it was just the final track
• 56:05
  called now and then, but I think we get back from what I
• 56:11
  understand had already been released many.
• 56:15
  Years prior. But it was being re released on
• 56:18
  Disney plus. They might have used AI to like
• 56:22
  enhance. The video maybe because they had
• 56:24
  that 8 hours stuff, they had like that full 8 hours special,
• 56:27
  which I watched all of. I was obsessed.
• 56:29
  I just watch it like watching the way they were writing and
• 56:32
  stuff and it was, it was absolutely incredible.
• 56:34
  And I I agree with that. Like, you know, I mean, you
• 56:37
  know, John Lennon, for all his faults, was an amazing
• 56:41
  songwriter, amazing brought so many people together as a
• 56:46
  general idea and view. But he but he he was able to
• 56:52
  contribute one last thing, you know, and I think I think that's
• 56:54
  quite cool. I think that's quite a cool
• 56:56
  idea. Right.
• 56:58
  Couple of final questions for you to round off today's show.
• 57:01
  Cool. What has music taught you about
• 57:05
  life? Have no expectation of anything
• 57:12
  in a in a in good and bad, in good and bad.
• 57:16
  I think in good just take a chance from whatever.
• 57:21
  Just like submit to a festival, submit to a radio station,
• 57:24
  things like that. Like so my one of my my band
• 57:27
  before this one bang called cheating lights.
• 57:30
  We just submitted to Kerrang Fresh Blood and with our late,
• 57:36
  with our blast release Howl. And as a, as A and because of
• 57:42
  that, because of that reach, we were put as artists of the week
• 57:45
  and played on Kerrang all week, which was great for us.
• 57:47
  It was great for us. We got so many more listings and
• 57:49
  things like that. I actually think we'd broken up
• 57:51
  by the time we'd sent it in. We still got more listings.
• 57:54
  So that was that was something. And then also don't, yeah, don't
• 57:58
  expect anything because of the things like, you know, people,
• 58:01
  people not necessarily turning up to shows and things like
• 58:03
  that. But then when they do turn up,
• 58:04
  it's great. And when they don't turn up, it
• 58:05
  doesn't really affect you that much.
• 58:08
  Yeah, I was just trying to enjoy getting a gig.
• 58:11
  Like right now I've, I've not had gigs since September.
• 58:13
  So I'm like, hey, I any and all gigs, I, I don't care if there's
• 58:18
  no one there. So I'm just grateful to play,
• 58:20
  you know? Yeah, no, same.
• 58:22
  Same as well. I don't want it to also seem
• 58:25
  that way. No, no, no.
• 58:26
  No, no, that's not what I meant at all.
• 58:28
  I just meant it's in general. It's like what I took from what
• 58:33
  you said is, is just being grateful.
• 58:35
  Yeah, 100% it is it. That's what I probably should
• 58:38
  have said. It's just be grateful for
• 58:40
  anything. I think that's what I took from.
• 58:42
  I'm sure that's what the listeners took.
• 58:44
  From yeah yeah yeah. Just me being sad.
• 58:46
  Typical emo band I. Mean you know it's true, man, it
• 58:51
  it can get you down. Like what you're saying is is
• 58:53
  not wrong. It's certainly the experience
• 58:55
  I've had and everyone has a slightly different experience,
• 58:58
  but it absolutely just throw yourself out there, see what
• 59:01
  happens. Yeah, yeah.
• 59:04
  What's the best advice you've ever received?
• 59:08
  Get the songs right. It's honestly get the, get the
• 59:12
  songs, get the songs right together.
• 59:14
  So get your songs down, get do all that before you think about
• 59:18
  going out to release something. I mean, have have your call
• 59:23
  depending on whether you want to do half an hour, depending when
• 59:25
  you want to do an hour. Like we don't have enough to do
• 59:27
  an hour yet. So we're not going to play an
• 59:29
  hour. We're not going to play 45
• 59:30
  minutes. We'll play half an hour really,
• 59:32
  really well and that will be it. And that's and we've got half an
• 59:35
  hour really good, really down. I mean, for us and in our own
• 59:39
  opinion. But yeah, like just before you
• 59:42
  want to go out and play live, get your songs tight, get your
• 59:45
  songs down and don't worry about an image.
• 59:47
  I mean, I wear. I mean, I love AI, love a good
• 59:51
  jumper and a pair of jeans. Root.
• 59:53
  Like the guitarist likes sweats. Our drummer likes sweats.
• 59:57
  It's fine. I think image is good if you
• 59:59
  need it, but we don't need it where we are so.
• 1:00:03
  Just get the music down in my opinion.
• 1:00:06
  I agree, but I do think certainly in today's world like
• 1:00:10
  image counts for something. I don't know.
• 1:00:13
  Unless the gimmick is we don't give a fuck about our look, then
• 1:00:15
  it's like fair enough. So in our in our photos and
• 1:00:18
  stuff, it's all branded. So we'll be colored, there'll be
• 1:00:21
  colours that associated and things like that.
• 1:00:23
  And like in all of our pictures. So like so we've got a song
• 1:00:26
  coming out on the 28th called LA.
• 1:00:28
  So all the colours are bright or warm or things like that.
• 1:00:32
  So it's all kind of trying to replicate that I guess loose
• 1:00:36
  Americana kind of feel. So yeah, just just just all that
• 1:00:40
  sort of thing. So just ensuring that that comes
• 1:00:43
  across so that there is a point to like having the like.
• 1:00:47
  So we ensure that we do look kind of similar, but then also
• 1:00:50
  you don't need it in in every way.
• 1:00:53
  I think an image is great. I don't think it applies to us
• 1:00:56
  too much. What's the biggest life lesson
• 1:01:00
  you've learned so far? Oh dear, that's that's a big and
• 1:01:08
  that's a big and oh wow, don't be work shy.
• 1:01:18
  I think that's the main one. Don't be work shy, like in
• 1:01:22
  everything. Just don't be work shy.
• 1:01:25
  Couldn't agree more. It's been an absolute pleasure
• 1:01:28
  having you on the show, Mike. This hour has.
• 1:01:29
  No thanks, Christian. Yeah.
• 1:01:31
  Thank you very much. Thank you.
• 1:01:33
  Final question, do you have any upcoming projects or final
• 1:01:37
  thoughts that you'd like to share of our listeners?
• 1:01:39
  So I've got a, we've got a single coming out on the 28th.
• 1:01:46
  So it might already be out by the time this comes out.
• 1:01:48
  So please go listen to it. It's called LA.
• 1:01:51
  Please go stream it. We'll we'll have check out our
• 1:01:56
  Instagram, which is hostile radio full stop And just yeah,
• 1:02:00
  yeah, yeah. But all our gigs will be on
• 1:02:02
  there. We'll should have a merch site
• 1:02:04
  by then as well. So please just go check it out
• 1:02:06
  by some merch support your local e-mail artists.
• 1:02:08
  That's great. Thanks.
• 1:02:09
  Thanks so much, Christian. It's been an absolute pleasure
• 1:02:12
  and to all the listeners, the watchers, viewers, whatever you
• 1:02:15
  want to call it, of the Christian Reef podcast, I hope
• 1:02:18
  you enjoyed this show as much as I did.
• 1:02:20
  Thank you so much for watching and listening, and until next
• 1:02:22
  time, I'll see you in the next one.