Latest / True Crime and Wine Time / S4 E7 - New York Crimes

Transcript

S4 E7 - New York Crimes · True Crime and Wine Time

0:13
I did it. You did it. You can I just say, you're
0:17
amazing. It's a copy and paste, but thank you. Hey, but
0:23
you did it. I did it. Oh man, he Well, and
0:31
you're still drinking gin? What are you still drinking gin? I am still
0:39
drinking gin. This is a they are not a sponsor. They're more than
0:44
welcome to be. It's actually not bad New Amsterdam Stratosphere Gin the original.
0:51
It's about forty percent of alcohol by volume and it's eighty proof. What's the
0:58
difference between gin and vodka? U no idea. I don't know. I
1:04
just wonder because some people like gen martinis, some people like vodka martinis.
1:10
I just like Tanka ray In tonic or vodka tonic. I just difference.
1:15
There you go. While gin and vodka are both crafted as neutral spirits,
1:19
gin has additional ingredients, namely juniper berries, to give it its signature pine
1:25
flavor. In fact, gin can only be called a gin if it has
1:29
juniper in it. Without this, the spirit is technically vodka. So okay,
1:36
see, okay, I learned something new today because I like vodka.
1:42
Well, I'm not a fan of jen and I only say I'm not a
1:47
fan of gin because I don't know if I can remember ever actually having it.
1:53
Yeah, no, I will say this. According to platings and pairings,
1:59
both gin ANDVOD are required to have no less than forty percent ABV.
2:04
One is not necessarily stronger than the other, but the botanical flavors in gin
2:07
can help tone down the strong flavors this one. So that being said,
2:15
which one's healthier? Both gin and vodkar low and calories and carbs, but
2:19
gin may have some health benefits do The botanicals in the production juniper berries are
2:23
a natural diuretic and can help with digestion. I'm simply trying to help my
2:27
digestion. Everybody just saying, well, let us know if it works.
2:32
Candae is the moment or you know? All right? I tell you that
2:43
I'm very impressed because I truly for the years we've known each other, in
2:50
the beginning, you stuck to beer. So, like I tell people who
2:55
go from drinking charpnay to seven young blogunk and then on the reds, your
3:00
palate is maturing. You know. It took me until I was like thirty
3:07
two to like gin. And I like beer, but I also like being
3:10
under two hundred pounds so I'm gonna, you know, kind of reduce my
3:15
calorie caloric intake from alcohol. Yeah, somebody so Randy says, gin has
3:23
juniper berry, so it's basically a fruit salad. I agree, And that's
3:28
why I tell people when I drink so much wine, I'm like, I
3:30
like grapes. It's a fruit. What's the problem? Not mine? I
3:35
tell me I need more fruit, right, and I'm I'm fruit enough,
3:40
So I avoid the wine and I go to the gin. Well, oh,
3:49
man, have you seen the crazy headlines lately in the news world with
3:54
crime. No, but I love the fact that you did the transition right
3:59
as I was thinking of doing the transition, because we think, alike,
4:03
you'd scary for you, not me. So I and I think I mentioned
4:13
this because I started doing these little silly TikTok videos when I put makeup on
4:16
in the morning, just because I decided to be fun. I'm still appalled
4:20
at the dentist that got life in prison for killing his wife and people think
4:28
that his sentence is too harsh. They are not putting him to death.
4:34
He got life in prison. How and why is that too harsh? Are
4:41
the same people who are being polled when they ask do you still support a
4:46
certain political person even though he's been indicted four times with ninety plus charges and
4:51
his popularity still goes up. It's the same group. I'm convinced, maybe
4:58
because I'm like, what, what do you think it should be a slap
5:02
on the wrist? So what was the sense life in prison without the possibility
5:12
of parole? Come on, ah, zez you know what? Okay?
5:19
I mean? Am I wrong? But that's not I don't see a problem
5:23
with that. No, I don't either. What are the what are the
5:28
And I'm not excusing it. I'm just wondering. I'm trying to understand their
5:31
thoughts on this. What are the surroundings, Like, what's the context of
5:38
the murder? Because it happened in Zimbabwe or is zimbab Zambia, Zimbabwe somewhere
5:46
over there? Let me pull it up. So, yes, dentist Lawrence
5:54
Rudolph was convicted of murdering his wife while on a safari in Zambia. So
6:00
he was found there. They said it was an accidental shooting, so he
6:08
was not charged. There came to the US. You know, he's from
6:12
the US, so we got him here in the US sport. But he
6:17
was found, he changed his story multiple multiple times. One he said she
6:24
must have been packing the gun and the gun went off and killed her.
6:28
Then he said, oh, I think it was I was putting it into
6:33
the gun case and it went off. But he then made a comment because
6:41
he had a mistress on the side, he made a comment to her years
6:45
later or whatever, he said to her, you better watch it. I'll
6:47
take care of you like I did. So and so his wife, because
6:50
they sentenced her as well for knowing about it. But I'm sorry, you
6:58
killed somebody. Why shouldn't you get life in prison? Because I'm going to
7:02
assume they didn't investigate it as much over there at a Safari camp, you
7:11
know, just like somebody who doesn't want to feel guilty, you know who's
7:18
super you know, just like somebody who doesn't want to feel guilty for finishing
7:25
what they started. You can't just say I was cleaning it and it went
7:29
off. That's not how this works. It's uh what I'm interested in is
7:38
so. So what they did was they arrested him in Zambia. They decided
7:44
it was an accident. He came back because they didn't have to extradite him,
7:47
right, So he came back, they discovered this stuff years later,
7:53
and then they charged him. Is that how that? I think people started
8:01
like raising suspicion that they knew he had a girlfriend and he collected five million
8:07
dollars and life insurance, but he wasn't arrested really substantial. Yeah, so
8:18
he was never arrested. There reading it, so it looks like the investigators
8:22
worked with the insurance companies and that kind of opened up. But he was
8:26
charged and sentenced here in the US. But did they work with Zambia,
8:33
did they grab their files? Did they look at their investigation because they were
8:37
the boots on the ground. He was arrested five years after her death.
8:46
I'm not saying the sentence is too harsh, and I'm not saying that he
8:50
should be innocent. I'm trying to figure out the process and what they had
8:56
and what they have obtained, because to assume to sentence somebody to prison to
9:03
life without parole for murder on the basis of he said this one thing to
9:07
somebody else and then some other people had some suspicions and he just so happened
9:11
to make money off of a life insurance policy. I don't know. I
9:16
mean he still did it, that's for sure, But I don't know.
9:20
That's the process. I'm trying to understand the process. Yeah, it doesn't
9:26
doesn't necessarily say how they went. They said it was an accident in twenty
9:35
sixteen, so Africa stood by that until five years later when the US got
9:41
involved and then reinvestigated it and his story changed. His story, well,
9:48
after five years, I would imagine somebody's stories probably changed well. But he
9:52
went from use his excuse in other words, she was putting the gun in
9:56
the case. Then he said no, I was putting the gun the case,
10:00
and it went off all right. Well, if it was the truth,
10:03
he wouldn't be confused about it. So he killed her. Yeah,
10:09
yeah, but what's wrong with life in prison. There's nothing wrong with that.
10:16
There's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with life in prison without
10:18
parole and seventeen years for knowing after the fact and for getting money from him,
10:30
Yeah, from the insurance. He had five years to do the right
10:35
thing. He also which means he doesn't have any remorse, and he had
10:39
five years to live free before he was sentenced. I don't feel bad for
10:43
him at all. Well, and what's interesting, he also a couple of
10:50
years before he shot his wife, he shot his thumb off while he was
10:56
in Africa on a safari, so that he collect insurance money for that as
11:01
well. Well, that's unfortunate because now he can't sit in prison with a
11:03
thumb up his ass. Welcome to true crime and wine time. It's a
11:11
little bit different. Also, it could get edited out. Who knows you
11:20
might see this here and not hear it there. Oh that is so true.
11:24
Depends on what you know. H h decides we need Well, I
11:31
hope you hear a loud laugh from him when that hits. Oh, I'm
11:35
sure. Okay, I just got a top story that popped up with a
11:45
picture of a certain US president. It did. It just popped up,
12:01
y'all. Welcome to the show where I'm gonna share the screen so you all
12:03
can see this mug shot. Because holy poop scoopers, that that is a
12:13
mug. That's a mug. Then that's an experience. He is pissed.
12:22
I'm just gonna go on record and say that I can tell you what he's
12:26
thinking. Oh shit, I'm fucked. Here's here. There were two options
12:37
one that face. Two it was gonna be this and they weren't gonna let
12:43
him do that. So wow. Wow, you know he looks if he
12:50
was green instead of orange, he would look like the Grinch. Oh my
12:54
god, he would, so you know, and I love the Grinch.
13:01
So don't you know whatever? All right, we that's not it there we
13:05
are. Nope, that's not it. Yeah we are. That's not it.
13:09
There we are. Hey, you're gonna make my head hurt if you
13:13
keep doing that. But that and then people trying to fake their own kidnappings
13:20
again, I'm sorry. I mean, I hope somebody writes in a perfect
13:26
crime plan with faking your own kidnapping because the people that are doing it in
13:31
real live they're not doing a very good job. Yep. Like when I
13:37
read about today, she went to the next town, so she didn't even
13:43
go that far away. It was like going out and having drinks and stuff.
13:52
You're you supposedly been kidnapped. You have to go where it's the opposite
13:56
of cheers, where nobody knows your name, yeah, and figure it out.
14:05
Wow. So I'm just gonna say that. I and I just also,
14:11
I don't get why you want to fake your own kidnapping. Yeah,
14:16
I don't either. I don't either. That's confusing to me. I mean,
14:20
I get sometimes as a mom, there were times I really wanted somebody
14:24
to kidnap me just I could go stay in a hotel for a couple of
14:28
days without HH and the kids. But I know, no, that's a
14:37
waste of officers times. Yep, So if you always do that and money
14:45
and yeah, I don't like good stories me, No, actually I don't.
14:52
I don't. I have been so far removed from anything else side of
15:00
what I've been doing that, yeah, that I just I can't. I
15:05
wish I could, but you know, works worky and that's how that goes.
15:11
Thanks for joining So so no, I haven't. I haven't kept up
15:16
with a lot of stuff. That would be my compadre on thirteenth dur Brandy.
15:22
She is very good at keeping up with those things. My brain can
15:24
hardly keep up with its day today. So yeah, well, well,
15:28
I drink coffee every morning and read you know, the top lot headlines in
15:33
the crime world. And that's why I decided. You know, I've got
15:35
a TikTok channel, why not just do videos every day when I put my
15:41
makeup on, And maybe with doing that I'll learn how to put makeup on
15:43
like an adult. Is that of a child? You know, the somebody
15:48
if you haven't been, if you haven't checked them out yet, you should
15:52
check out gossip, rumor and innuendo. Kathy she does, she does or
15:58
leave it like early morning videos of like just you know a lot of things.
16:03
She does a good job. Brandy said that she can help you with
16:07
eyebrow application if you would like. So hey, that offer has happened.
16:12
I need it. And the only give you ten minutes for a video.
16:17
So you got to put all this on in ten minutes. You have to
16:22
do a little snippet and then do a little snippet and then do a little
16:26
snippet and do kind of like a fast forward type thing. Yeah, we've
16:33
got to remember Terry's not the techie person. You could just go live on
16:41
TikTok. I can. I don't have enough followers. Oh baloney, go
16:48
follow Terry. Yeah, you have to have more followers. I need.
16:52
I think it's another four hundred to be able to go live. So hey,
16:57
that's it. But so we'll see how long I continue doing that.
17:03
Maybe I'll get better. But I'm kind of excited about our topic because when
17:07
you think of New York, or when I think of New York, I
17:11
think of shopping, and after my case, I will never look at New
17:21
York the same one. All right, Well, I'm all up for destroying
17:26
something that I find intriguing. Bring it on, That's all I gotta say.
17:36
Bring it on. Okay. I was like, that was a little
17:38
that was a little laugh. So so, as we know, serial killers
17:45
have long captivated all of us that like the true crime world for sure,
17:51
have captivated us with all of their stuff. But among these sireal killers,
17:59
I found one that I will tell you I didn't know about. So I
18:03
think that was the excitement for me because he's naughty and how I didn't know
18:08
about Richard Cunningham. Have you heard of him? No? Did he do
18:14
massages in a motel? No? He did not. Okay, but he
18:23
killed a bunch of people. Oh, all right, killed it. So
18:27
let's get into it. His name is Richard Francis Cottingham and he was born
18:33
November twenty, nineteen forty six. That sounds like one of the guys was
18:40
indicted in Georgia. What a name? All right, keep going. Sorry,
18:44
well we'll move on from that topic now. In the Bronx. So
18:49
I didn't realize that the Bronx. Why do people say Bronx New York.
18:55
Doesn't everybody know the Bronxes in New York? Every article I read it said
19:03
in Bronx New York, I just assume that. So anyway, So to
19:08
understand him and his behavior, first, you you know, we always or
19:15
I always look at what childhood traumas, what happened? Why is he this
19:19
way? Sure? I couldn't find that he had any horrible stuff. I
19:30
just couldn't. So his killing spreeze banned over a decade now. Some people
19:38
called him the butcher or the Torso Killer, so I don't know if those
19:45
names. The Torso Killer sounds very familiar, and I don't know why.
19:49
Okay, so yeah, let me just say that it gets a little gruesome
20:00
and it gets a little dark. So I am going to try to not
20:07
share the more gory stuff. I do want you to pull up a picture
20:14
of him, if you could, and share the picture of him, because
20:18
you just have to see what he looks like currently to kind of laugh,
20:29
yeah, you mean currently is in currently? Currently? Yeah, well it
20:33
should have pulled up. If you just google his name, it pulls up
20:37
a picture. Are you talking about a big old beard? Yeah, let
20:42
me save it and then I don't bring it up. Okay, save it.
20:45
But so anyway, he was called They also called him the New York
20:49
Ripper, the Torso killer. Some people called him the Times Square killer.
20:55
But like I said, I did not know about him. Now, well,
21:00
before I get into all the specifics. The other thing that was interesting
21:03
when police caught him for some reason, they gave him a partial immunity deal.
21:11
So there was eight of his crimes. Yeah, I'm sorry, just
21:19
something about that. He looks like Santa Claus. Isn't an awful But anyway,
21:26
eight of the confessions he gave he was not prosecuted for because he got
21:33
a limited immunity deal. So they had him on all these others. But
21:37
it was that situation that we want to know where they are, we want
21:41
this. So he got away with eight murders. So I just need y'all
21:48
to think about that, because that really bothers me that they gave him and
21:53
they couldn't prosecute him for that. So anyway, he was one of four
21:59
kids. Now, the interesting thing the family moved from New York over to
22:04
New Jersey during that time. I don't know where it happened, but Richard
22:11
became obsessed with bondage pornography and that was his thing. That that was his
22:21
thing. He said that it aroused and his comment was the whole idea of
22:27
bondage had aroused and fascinated me since I was very young. So that's a
22:36
choice. Yeah, oh, thank you. I did not give that.
22:41
That's okay, Well you did. You said it was going to get gruesome.
22:44
You gave them the gave everybody the warning. But I'm just adding the
22:48
ticker at the bottom thank you, because yes, this is not for everyone,
22:53
and you should maybe turn it off if you don't want to hear so.
22:57
Now, he was a member of his high school's cross country team and
23:02
track team, but yet they say he didn't have friends, so he was
23:08
good in those sports. I guess. I guess cross country is considered a
23:12
sport, right. I ran cross country and track in high school, and
23:18
that does not equate to popularity. Let me tell you right now, that
23:23
is not like those sports that people are like, you're awesome. Now,
23:30
why I would think cross country I think it sounds amazing because I couldn't do
23:34
it. I think it's because it's not like a football or a baseball game
23:41
where everybody's on the same field the whole time. It's kind of like,
23:45
I don't know, it's like the Tour de France. It's not the same
23:48
thing. I'm not equating it. But you're at one point and you see
23:51
runners go by, and then unless you get to the finish or you get
23:55
to another point, you're not gonna see him again. So there's no like
23:57
long term connection with an athlete. And like, even even though we won
24:03
the state independent championships one year, it didn't mean anything. Now I'm speaking
24:11
from my experience. It might be very different at different places, but you
24:15
know, cross country and track don't, well, at least, cross country
24:18
doesn't really have like a state where it's just like cross country. You know
24:22
how Texas is like yeah, floor like football, and Florida's like yeah,
24:25
baseball. There's no like, yeah, they're running three point one miles and
24:30
it's gonna be great. So now do cross country teams compete against other schools?
24:37
Yeah, oh they did, okay, so it's like a real thing.
24:41
We didn't have cross country where I grew up. A lot of times
24:45
those competitions will happen off campus. Right, If a school's lucky to have
24:51
the land, they can do it, Like we had an invitational, but
24:55
that's because we had woods behind us and can get away with it. Okay,
24:57
But most of the time these are happening away and so you as a
25:03
high schooler, you either have to rely on friends who drive or your parents
25:07
to drive you somewhere, and the chances are you're more than likely going to
25:10
catch your ride to a football game or a basketball or baseball game. Then
25:14
if you go up to somebody and say, hey, you drive, will
25:17
you take me to the cross country match? It's just not the same thing.
25:21
So yeah, okay, Now, I mean I swam. That wasn't
25:26
a cool thing, so seeing that, I can't understand either because it's more
25:32
popular now that you know Michael Phelps popped on scene. But anyway, so
25:37
he graduated high school. Now, his father was a vice president at a
25:42
large computer company or not a computer insurance company where Richard went to work.
25:49
He actually worked his way up from the mailroom to becoming a mainframe computer operator.
25:56
Wow. So either it was because his dad was the vice president there
26:03
or he's smart. I don't know which, but they did say he took
26:11
a computer course to learn how to become a main frame computer operator. I
26:17
feel like one computer course does not a main frame computer operator make I'm with
26:25
you. So he actually still worked for Blue Cross Blue Shield, where he
26:29
worked until he got arrested. Now, for those of you that liked trivia,
26:36
he worked with another famous person, Rodney Alcala. That sounds familiar to
26:49
He was on the game show. He was what they called, I think
26:53
the game show Killer. He was the game show really I think so,
26:59
I think that was Rody. Might have to google it. In fact,
27:03
it is Yep, he's the dating game serial killer. Oh wait, he's
27:07
a creepy looking dude. So they worked together. Now, Rodney Alcala,
27:12
I did pump. He was working under an alias of John Berger, but
27:18
they worked together. John Berger, it's the most made up name that's ever
27:29
existed. You can call me Big Mac, but in that just kind of
27:36
creepy. Can you know they say that you walk by Cyril Killer so many
27:38
times in your life. There were two of them in the same office at
27:44
the same time, working together. I feel like that's I feel like that's
27:49
a statistical anomaly, and I don't math, so I don't math either,
27:55
but I mean that just kind of freaks me out to think that there were
27:59
two of them. There's like thirty five to forty at a time, right
28:04
that operate in the US at any given time. That's an average, It
28:08
could be less or more. But the fact that there were two of them
28:11
in the entirety in this are they worked well. Christmas party would have been
28:23
a nightmare. At the company Christmas party, you would never know who was
28:26
going to make it home. So he did get married, and he had
28:33
three children, two boys and a girl. And the funny thing about it,
28:38
every article that I read in the research said that his wife never suspected
28:48
anythings. Now here's where it gets interesting. She filed for divorce on the
28:56
grounds of abandonment and mental cruelty because he refused to have sex with her after
29:03
the birth of their child and staying out early till early morning and leaving her
29:11
with insufficient household funds. First off, dick, second ass, I mean,
29:25
you're checking all the boxes of somebody that I would like to throw in
29:29
like the incinerator already. I've just all done, sir. I've been divorced
29:36
a couple of times, but I can't imagine putting in my divorce petition.
29:40
Oh yeah, he refused to have sex with me after I had a child?
29:45
Don't you just put in your recity and your recite reconcilable differences? Uh?
29:53
You know what though, I feel like that, could you know,
29:57
if if it is a complete departure from what the traditional is before the child,
30:03
I could see that depending on how that was enacted upon as a form
30:07
of mental or psychological abuse. But then if he refused, and how did
30:11
y'all go on to have three kids if he stopped having sex with you after?
30:18
But what it sounds like is he was doing the motions. He didn't
30:23
care, but he wanted the he wanted the look, right, I'm a
30:27
family, like, yeah, so we have a there's a lot of those
30:32
folks. So and we're gonna find out that he also was raping people,
30:38
so he didn't you know, he was getting his kicks off somewhere else.
30:48
Basically, is a nice way for me to say that now, and we'll
30:56
get into this more. She withdrew the divorce petition upon his arrest and then
31:03
refiled it and got the divorce after the conviction. You know, it's really
31:11
sad is that somebody feels like they have to do that in order to actually
31:15
have the divorce approved. Is that what you think? I wasn't confident.
31:22
And then he was convicted and she was like, well, now I can
31:25
do it for sure, because part of me thinks if if you don't divorce,
31:33
seem they're going to take your combined marital funds to pay for his defense.
31:38
Right if you withdraw it where if you would have left it, you
31:44
would have kind of made yourself where you weren't responsible for anything he gets charged
31:48
with as far as having to pay for it, right, Yeah, maybe
31:55
I think so. I don't know how that side of things work, but
32:00
that's sounding right. So before his big arrest, so he had some little
32:08
small squabbles with the police. He had drunk driving charge, shoplifting. I'm
32:20
sorry, I'm trying not to laugh this. I read this because it still
32:22
makes me laugh. So he was also arrested for robbery and oral sodomy.
32:30
It was because in nineteen seventy three that was still a crime that they were
32:40
This wasn't this wasn't a forced situation. This was a he just did it
32:45
and h yeah, yeah, so that what I just I can't because I'm
32:52
like, that's not Back then it was against the law. But then he
32:58
also was arrested for sexual abuse against a prostitute and her pimp, So he
33:05
had some other some other problems, you know. He also had an unlawful
33:09
imprisonment because another prostitute had said he wouldn't let her leave. But his first
33:20
known for sure thing that he was found guilty for. He picked up an
33:24
eighteen year old prostitute by the name of Leslie Ann who was soliciting on the
33:29
corner of Manhattan's Lexington Avenue. They checked into a hotel room. Apparently she
33:37
did not have this special drink mixture like we learned on The Perfect Crime Today,
33:45
but basically got a massage all that stuff. He basically drew a knife
33:52
out and he put a pair of handcrufts on her that he had and he
33:57
tortured her, bit off one of her nipples completely, and he during the
34:07
torture, he liked to degrade the women, telling them you're horrible, you're
34:10
cheap, you're not worth anything. So he was really intent on tying them
34:17
up, but he wanted to humiliate them, so it was more just just
34:22
the physical torture. He got off on the emotional torture. It's almost like
34:28
he was doing it to take the moral high ground to justify. But also
34:31
that assumes he is a conscience, so he needs to justify, and I
34:35
don't think he does have one, so it kind of renders my point.
34:38
Moot. That's uh, okay, I have a feeling this isn't gonna go
34:47
better. But here's the other thing is that obviously hindsight's twenty twenty, but
34:52
you can see you can kind of see that scale up, that escalation.
34:58
So yeah, yeah, yeah, Well so he was convicted for three rape
35:07
and assaults against three different women. Okay, but then he goes on to
35:14
start murdering them. Now, he often sought out female sex workers, and
35:23
he had his age that he liked. The scary thing is he's claimed it
35:30
has killed as many as one hundred. He was able to take them to
35:37
the bodies of several. But like I said, there was eight that he
35:43
was not charged with. Can you remind me again the year or the span
35:55
it was in the eighties, It was a whole decade. So that's enough.
36:00
Started in seventy eight. That's enough for me to say that I actually
36:05
probably believe him. There's a lot to be said about bragging. But also
36:10
in the eighties sex workers, I mean they still are are not paid attention
36:15
to, but even more so then. So I want, I absolutely absolutely
36:24
see it. I do too. And the thing that I find somewhat interesting,
36:32
So some of the crimes were in New Jersey, somewhere in New York,
36:38
so they did them in both places. But they also say he did
36:45
five homicides in a different county and they went after him. And that was
36:52
where part of this immunity from prosecution prosecution went in because he actually started killing
36:59
in sixties. So he killed, then he moved on to the right,
37:05
kidnapping, torture, and then he went back to the killing. I don't
37:13
this is gonna sound like I'm giving him credit, and I'm not. He
37:16
knew what he was doing because he knew the population to target, and he
37:21
knew to move around, because he knew that at that time, and not
37:25
until really the mid to late nineties and even later even now, they don't
37:30
really but different jurisdictions don't talk to each other, especially then, and so
37:36
if there's nobody to talk to, or if you don't, then there's no
37:38
pattern. And so it's hard to find somebody without a pattern. Yeah,
37:46
and they said he had a very definite signature and type. They all look,
37:58
you know, you would look and you would say, oh, there's
38:00
a type. So there is that. And I don't know what happened,
38:08
but my computer just shut down my word document. No, no, well
38:15
you're gonna have to bring it up. I'm trying to open it up now.
38:20
It's all right. I decided that I would take a second and see
38:24
the familiar, like the similarities here. It's saying that there's a thing.
38:35
Hold on, this is so are we talking? Are we talking late teens,
38:45
early twenties brunettes? Okay, yeah, Wow, that's the first time
38:54
I've ever been able to do that. I'm impressed in myself. M it's
39:01
crazy. I mean, if if police don't talk to each other, they
39:05
don't find a pattern, they don't know what's going on. Even with the
39:07
distinct signature and a victim profile, they can't warn everybody. Therefore, people
39:12
can't know who needs to h But I mean, he liked to bite.
39:17
That was a thing for him. So I know, I'm still trying to
39:22
get this to open beck up. But on the list that I have of
39:27
all the women in their names, all of them were bitten. It's a
39:32
it's a very visceral form of control. Mm hmm. You know it's uh,
39:42
I mean it's it's it's it's a it's a psychological way two to define
39:49
the fact that you think of these people as meat mm hmmm, like meat
39:53
suits. Right. I mean, there are nothing more than that I can
39:58
do this, I can do any anything. Yeah, yep, that's frush
40:07
rush, so rush frustrating. Yeah. So just in twenty twenty two,
40:14
they went back to him with a new non prosecution prosecution agreement for him to
40:22
help kind of solve some cold cases. And he did give some confessions to
40:28
some additional murders from nineteen seventy nineteen seventy four, all of these, but
40:34
he cannot be prosecuted. But they did bring that prison forever. Right,
40:42
he is in prison forever. But he did give some families some closure by
40:50
finally admitting, because the bodies had been found, finally admitting that he had
40:53
done it and they thought it was him, and he finally confess. I
41:01
feel like at this point it's more worth Yes, it would be well,
41:06
it would put the Samlely through a whole bunch more if they did the whole
41:08
prosecuting thing. But also he wouldn't say anything, so it's much better to
41:13
tell him confess to these We're not going to prosecute you, but just give
41:15
these folks. Please give these folks enclosure. It's been this long. Come
41:21
on so well, normally a mac doesn't do this. But it is not
41:29
letting me reopen this document. No. Now it says I have a fatal
41:37
error. That's not good. Well, the only thing I can say is
41:45
it means I'm not going to read you all of the really horrible stuff,
41:50
but I can tell you he is in prison. He is not going to
41:53
get out of prison. But I wanted to be able to tell you exactly
41:59
how many. For sure he has only seventy seven. Yeah, it's not
42:08
opening back up. No, it tells me I need to shut down my
42:14
computer and restart it, which we are not going to do. Uh did
42:20
you happen to stave it on like a drive? I did not. Okay,
42:23
I hadn't done that part yet. That's because I was in bed all
42:28
day today. So, but he was convicted of several I'm sure I can
42:36
give it a goog real quick and see how many This is the first one
42:46
happened. All of this out. We cut all of this out in the
42:50
podcast, but you get all of it. No I know, and I
42:54
didn't what happens. This has never happened. So eight eighteen between nineteen sixty
43:04
seven and nineteen eighty those are that one hundred percent confirmed. And he has
43:10
given confessions up to is one hundred with a lot of information matching what he
43:16
said. And that's but they are still investigating because that started in December of
43:24
twenty twenty two. So it could come out that they wind up linking him
43:29
to others because they're thinking he left New York and New Jersey to commit some
43:34
crimes. I wouldn't be surprised if he went to Massachusetts or Ohio or Pennsylvania
43:44
as well. So kind of a weird way, But yeah, that was
43:50
my case. That has never happened to me. I'm sorry, it's okay.
43:57
It's my body's way of saying. And the computer agrees that you don't
44:00
feel great today. Well I can say that my case is a little more
44:07
succinct than it usually is. Okay, but we'll see, we'll see.
44:12
Maybe it won't be And I kind of jumped the shark right away, and
44:16
I'll tell you exactly who I'm covering. So, the assassination of John Lennon
44:23
on December eighth, nineteen eighty sent shockwaves through the world, forever changing the
44:30
music industry and leaving leaving a mark on popular culture. The man responsible was
44:36
Mark David Chapman, a troubled guy who's obsession with Lenin kind of culminated in
44:42
a tragic and senseless act of violence. Now we're going to talk about him
44:47
and his background, some motivations, the assassination, legal proceedings, you know,
44:52
the usual that we cover. So Mark was born on May tenth,
44:58
nineteen fifty five, in Fort Worth, Texas. Yeah, how yeeh.
45:04
How He grew up in a middle class family, the son of David Curtis
45:07
Chapman and Diane Elizabeth Chapman. Chapman's childhood was relatively uneventful, but there were
45:15
signs of emotional and psychological issues, and those began to surface as he entered
45:22
into his teenage years. Chapman's family life was marked by a series of moves,
45:27
with his father's job requiring relocations that resulted in a basically a lack of
45:31
stability. Now, I will say this for some, For some folks it
45:39
works, you know, moving around a lot as a military brad. It
45:43
worked for me. But for some who have a hard time kind of adapting
45:50
for one reason or another, it creates kind of like a creates an upheaval.
45:55
And I don't think I would have done well. I lived in this
45:59
same house my entire life. My parents moved in before they had my brother
46:04
and I and my mom still lived there when she died a couple of years
46:07
ago. I don't think I would have been a good person to me to,
46:13
you know, move around, and I wouldn't have done very well.
46:15
I'm too shy. That is probably something that I This is something that I
46:21
noticed in I'm gonna call him brother Bruce Crime and myself, I am.
46:24
I don't need to tell everybody. I'm very extroverted and outgoing and gregarious,
46:30
and so that definitely helped out. He is not. He is very introverted
46:34
and introspective and quiet, and he had more. He had a harder time.
46:39
For sure. He didn't end up David. He didn't end up like
46:43
Mark, but but you know, he you know, he definitely had a
46:46
harder time than I. Did, but it definitely this. This played a
46:52
role in shaping his sense of identity and belonging, and he struggled academically and
46:57
socially. Then this led to feelings of isolation self esteem, and then during
47:02
his teenage years, his parents divorced and that added to his emotional challenges,
47:07
leading him searching for something. You know, there's got to be some meaning
47:12
or purpose out there for me, he struggled. Hmm, yeah, I
47:20
thought, sorry, I thought I okay. He struggled with feelings of isolation,
47:24
a sense of alienation, and his mental health deteriorated. He experienced depressive
47:31
episodes, displayed signs of obsessive compulsive disorder. Something that's really was interesting to
47:37
me is that he had this fixation on JD. Salinger's novel The Catcher in
47:42
the Rye and it became basically a defining feature of his life. And he
47:49
identified strongly with Holden Callfield, which was the protagonist of the book. And
47:53
he saw himself as the misunderstood outsider who viewed the world as hypocritical and phony.
48:01
And to a degree, maybe he was right in feeling like he was
48:06
the outsider. I also feel like at a certain point there's some kind of
48:09
like that self fulfilling prophecy where if you say that, you're just going to
48:14
kind of avoid trying to be part of something. So I'm the outsider,
48:19
So what's the point kind of a thing. I'm not saying it's his fault.
48:22
There's probably a lot that came into this. It's not that simple.
48:25
He can't boil it down to an A or a B. But he really
48:30
dug the catcher in the rye, and his obsession with it played a significant
48:34
role in his belief that he had a mission to preserve the innocence of childhood
48:38
and protect the vulnerable from the corruption of society. Now, he saw himself
48:45
as a self appointed guardian of authenticity, and he viewed Lenin, whom he
48:49
believed to be a symbol of the phoniness he despised, as a target for
48:53
his violent act. At the same time, I know it's a stretch,
48:59
isn't it. It's a stretch. It's kind of like when you take that
49:02
that stretch toy, you know that's filled with like stretched armstrong, stretch armstrong,
49:07
and it's like such a stretch that even stretch Armstrong would just strack everywhere
49:15
and so okay. So while he believed that he had a fascination with the
49:22
Beatles, especially John Lennon, particularly him and the band's music provided an escape
49:28
for him. It was a connection to something larger than his own issues,
49:31
but that that that obsession became an unhealthy obsession. And then we get to
49:38
the point in which he feels how he feels about Lenin. And on top
49:42
of that, Chapman entered adulthood and he faced a series of personal professional setbacks,
49:50
and his attempt at college ended in a failure. His marriage faced difficulties
49:53
that ultimately led to separation, and then experiences deepened his feelings of an adequacy
50:00
and disconnection from society. And it was during that time or this time,
50:04
that Chapman's mental health began to deferiorate even further, and it started bringing in
50:12
signs of paranoid delusions and erratic behavior as well. Rejection and failure does a
50:20
lot to somebody if they don't have a support system. Was he ever,
50:24
Because I don't know a whole lot about this case. I thought he was
50:30
like early because that was back in the day that like now, they would
50:35
say he was like schizophrenic. I know, they called it something different.
50:39
Then was he ever formally charge or is my brain not working along with my
50:45
body? Yes, so he was. He was diagnosed as being depressed but
50:58
also being a paranoid schizophrenic. Okay, now, now me's saying that he
51:05
was diagnosed as that by the psychiatrist for the defense. So oh, okay,
51:12
take that how you feel. But the grain of salt probably, but
51:16
that's what I found two seconds ago, and it might Yeah, So the
51:23
turning point in his life came with his decision to pursue that obsession with Lenin.
51:28
Now, his fixation with Lenin grew increasingly intense in the months leading up
51:32
to the murder. He believed that by killing Lenin, he would become a
51:36
central figure in his own tragic narrative, mimicking the themes and motivations he found
51:40
in the Catcher in the Rye, and he meticulously planned the assassination, stalking
51:45
Lenin and gathering information about his daily routines. Because and I'll mention this at
51:52
the very end, before this happened, it's now, obviously the Beatle couldn't
52:00
just go out all the time, right, But AT's at the same time,
52:04
Lenin could have a he could have a he could have a what's the
52:08
word I'm looking for? A routine? He could have a routine. And
52:14
now we're even telling general population women don't run in the same place, don't
52:20
have the same routine, right, It's that it's gone that badly. So
52:27
he stalked him, and on December eighth, nineteen eighty, as John Lennon
52:31
returned home from a recording session, Mark David Chapman positioned himself outside the Dakota
52:37
Building in New York City, where Lenin resided. When Lennon and his wife,
52:43
Yoko Ono arrived. Sorry, we're not going to get too much into
52:52
her, but what you need to know is that my brother brew crime.
53:02
Uh what do I say? Now? I don't know the brew crime significant
53:07
other. Uh. Her family in New York live right down the road from
53:14
Yoko currently of New York. And so that was fun for me because I
53:21
was just waiting to hear ye I know that's how I say things. She
53:24
thinks. If you ever listen to a record, you know that's not offensive.
53:29
That's just that's how it is. Anyways, So, uh, they
53:32
arrived at the entrance, both of them, and Chapman commonly called out Lenin's
53:36
name, handed him a copy. This is the most chilling part. He
53:42
called out Lenin's name, He handed him a copy of The Catcher in the
53:45
Rye. Yeah really, okay, I never yeah, never heard have I
53:53
heard that? That's that's scary. He then immediately fired five shots at close
54:02
range, fatally wounding Lenin. Now this sent shockwaves through the world. As
54:07
you can imagine, millions of fans were mourning. They were raising questions about
54:13
what fame means, what's the price, and how vulnerable really are public figures.
54:20
Now, I would say that if this was not Lenin and this was
54:22
an everyday person number one, Mark wouldn't have targeted him. But also media
54:27
wouldn't have picked up on this. Obviously there wouldn't have been the same situation.
54:30
But here we are. See. I always thought that the guy who
54:36
killed John Lennon did it because he married Yoko Ohna. You know. I
54:44
never knew that it was because he was obsessed and he had all these other
54:47
things. I always thought it had something to do with that. So I've
54:53
been wrong my whole life. I mean, it's it's honestly, with how
55:00
much flak Yoko gets, it's believable so after the assassination, he was immediately
55:09
apprehended by the police. During the trial, his defense team attempted to portray
55:15
him as mentally unstable, arguing for the insanity defense, hence what I mentioned
55:19
earlier. The prosecution, however, argued that Chapman was fully aware of his
55:23
actions, sought to hold him accountable for the premeditated murder, and the trial
55:28
provided a platform for Chapman's motivations and mental state to be scrutinized and analyzed.
55:34
And now I didn't see the trial and any re transcripts, but I would
55:40
imagine that the forethought to bring catcher in the rye to hand it to John
55:45
Lennon would indicate one premeditation and to a level of process that somebody who the
55:55
defense depicted wouldn't have. I'm not saying he didn't have something right, but
56:00
he knew what he was doing by giving him the catcher in the rye.
56:05
Now that's my own argument. Other people might not agree, but here we
56:07
are. So Chapman was, ultimately we know this, found guilty. He
56:16
was found guilty for second degree murder, not first degree murder. So obviously
56:22
the catcher wasn't enough. But that show's premed it. Well, maybe not,
56:28
because maybe he was just sitting on a corner around the street reading it
56:31
well, but maybe the thing is that they were able to show that he
56:35
was stalking. Yeah, so I don't know how you get second degree out
56:39
of that. But now he was found guilty of second degree and he was
56:45
sentenced to twenty years to life, and he has spent over four decades behind
56:50
bars, becoming one of the most infamous inmates in the United States. Now.
56:54
Throughout his imprisonment, Chapman has undergone psychological evaluations, participate in therapy,
57:00
sought religious redemption, he found jail house Jesus, but his requests for parole
57:06
have been constantly denied, with the parole board citing the heinous nature of his
57:10
crime and concerns about public safety. I've seen people get out for doing more.
57:20
That being said, I'm not saying what he did was fine. Chapman's
57:23
life in prison has been marked by a complex mix of introspection, religious exploration,
57:29
attempts at personal growth. He's expressed remorse for his actions, has engaged
57:32
with various programs aimed at addressing the root causes of violence. Nevertheless, the
57:37
question of his rehabilitation and possibility of release continues to generate debate and controversy.
57:45
And you know, so the assassination of John Lennon, the shockwaves that went
57:53
through the music industry left this impact on his fans and fellow musicians, and
57:59
his untimely death marked the end of an era and it changed music history.
58:06
And you know, he had a huge influence as a singer songwriter. Whether
58:09
you liked him or you didn't like him, whether you blamed him for the
58:13
Beatles or Yoko for the Beatles, didn't he He was a hugely influential singer
58:21
songwriter for the Beatles for himself. If have you seen the Disney the documentary
58:29
that it's on Disney that I think Peter Jackson put together on the Beatles,
58:34
I have not. It's phenomenal in a way that I cannot describe, because
58:37
you are literally sitting with the Beatles, you know when they recorded you.
58:45
You might have seen the video of them doing their concert on the rooftops.
58:51
Yes, yes, so this is this is the This is the brief period
58:55
before leading up to that concert and it ends with that as the climax that
59:00
concert, and this video has been cleaned up and reproduced, not reproduced,
59:07
but cleaned up in a way where it literally looks like you're watching a movie
59:13
today. It's and it's so pure in terms of audio. And not only
59:19
that, but you get to watch them right the album in sessions in a
59:24
big sound stage for the album that they sang songs from on the rooftop.
59:30
Okay, I'm gonna have to watch that. It's I cried. I cried
59:36
because you literally watch Paul McCartney and John Lennon now they didn't. You can
59:40
sense some tension because pretty much everywhere John went, Yoko was right behind him
59:46
at those sessions. You can see it, you can see. But the
59:50
same went for Paul and I can't remember who he was dating at that point,
59:54
Linda Linda mcartney, I don't remember. I'm probably making that up anyways,
1:00:00
but but but but you can see this this there is one scene and
1:00:04
I can't remember what song it is. I'm blinking, but you can watch
1:00:08
Paul basically create the song like you watch them create this stuff, and it's
1:00:15
phenomenal. I'm yeah, So I will always I'll always brag about that.
1:00:23
That that show. I really want to make sure that it's on Disney now
1:00:28
because somebody said I thought it was on Yeah, I wouldn't think it dis
1:00:32
but no, it is on Disney. It's called the Beatles Get Back.
1:00:37
Okay, that's the song. That's the song. You watch Paul. You
1:00:40
watch Paul right get Back and you see him put it together, oh wow,
1:00:46
and work it through. It's awesome. It's awesome. I think dub
1:00:51
h would love it. I know you will. Everybody else. Yeah,
1:00:57
so you're not. I think that there's a lot of people out there who
1:01:00
Yeah, I think that. Yeah, there's a lot of people out there
1:01:04
that aren't huge Beatles fans. I'm not like a massive Beatles fan, but
1:01:07
I just appreciate history and music history and watching that stuff come together. Yeah,
1:01:12
I'm not either. I don't hate him, don't love them that kind
1:01:15
of thing, but I do think they have some good songs slung as you
1:01:19
don't make me her Yellow Submarine? I'm okay. Now, is it Chapman
1:01:24
the guy that also like accosted another singer when he was looking for Lennen or
1:01:31
something, or my having brain mix ups. I could totally be wrong.
1:01:44
I didn't see anything, but I might have overlooked it too. That's a
1:01:51
good question. James Taylor. I just looked it at James Taylor. Oh,
1:01:57
James, So it was like the day before he killed, of the
1:02:02
day before he killed. Then he ran out to James Taylor. Jesus,
1:02:07
I just found that on December seventh. It costed James Taylor. That would
1:02:13
have been horrific. Uh, primarily because I was nicknamed after James Taylor.
1:02:20
It just so happened. My name works with it. But my mom's a
1:02:23
huge fan of JT. James Taylor might have changed here we are. So
1:02:31
when I say that it ended an era and changed the trajectory, you know,
1:02:36
I mean it prompted increased security measures and awareness of the safety of public
1:02:42
figures. The tragic event highlighted vulnerabilities of those who are in the public look.
1:02:46
I underscored the importance of personal security protocols and protection security measures for celebrities
1:02:52
today, musicians, public figures. I mean intensely robust. There's a huge
1:02:59
emphasis on contingency planning, threat assessment, proactive risk management. I mean this
1:03:04
happens. I mean, despite how I feel about Justin Bieber, this happens
1:03:09
every time he walks out of his house. It's not just for the president
1:03:15
with the Secret Service. This is now happening for these public figures well,
1:03:21
and I think something we also need to think about. It also happens to
1:03:23
the families of people who are murdered or things happen, so they become infamous
1:03:32
because somebody in their family did something and then they can't even walk out of
1:03:36
their house. I'm sorry, I saw somebody had commented. From what I've
1:03:43
seen in James Taylor, he probably doesn't remember it. I think he does,
1:03:49
jeez, But yeah, no, Fire and Rain was one of the
1:03:53
first songs I learned on my guitar. So that doesn't mean I play it
1:03:59
like him him, but it's one of the first songs that are so just
1:04:02
kind of wrapping up in a few just a little bit more. The case
1:04:09
offers valuable insights, though, into the intersection of mental health issues, obsession,
1:04:15
and celebrity culture. Chapman's obsession with a Catcher in the Rye and his
1:04:19
subsequent fixation on John Lennon demonstrates basically the dangerous consequences of untreated mental illness and
1:04:27
the potential for violent acts. The ease of doing it or sorry the case
1:04:35
the ease. The case underscores the importance of comprehensive mental health support, early
1:04:41
intervention, and effective treatment to address the root cause of such obsessions and prevent
1:04:46
potential tragedies. Imagine that being proactive instead of reactive. Now, don't like
1:04:55
to do that. Question. Did they have to put him and solitary confinement?
1:05:00
Because the Beatles were a big deal when this happened. Did they I
1:05:06
can't imagine that there was any prison they could put him in that there wasn't
1:05:11
a Beatles fan they would have had to. Did they do that? Oh?
1:05:17
They definitely had solitary for sure, and it was probably worse than it
1:05:23
is today. Well, and it probably wasn't good with his mental condition for
1:05:27
that, But if not, I'm thinking somebody would have killed him. Yeah,
1:05:33
yeah, I think that that's probably, I mean, that's most likely
1:05:35
true. In fact, I would say that he's still at risk. Oh,
1:05:41
he's probably safer in prison than if they paroled him. If they parole
1:05:45
him, mm hmm, he not going to make it very long, No,
1:05:50
And I would imagine that he's still in some kind of modified solitary.
1:05:56
Yeah. I mean, there's just no way to keep him safe. Because
1:06:00
the Beatles span three four generations, so four it might be much three,
1:06:10
No, four, four, four for sure, and they'll continue, you
1:06:18
know, four or five. I mean, if my kids liked it,
1:06:20
it'd be five. Uh. I mean it's not that they don't, they
1:06:25
just haven't been introduced to it. So the assassination serves as a reminder of
1:06:33
the need to kind of talk about violence, promote peace in our society's really
1:06:38
proactive things rather than reactive things. Chapman's early life, marked by instability,
1:06:45
emotional struggles, and an unhealthy fixation, sheds light on the complex interplay between
1:06:51
personal experiences and psychological well being. Now it's possible. While it's possible to
1:06:57
definitively pinpoint exact factors let him down such a path, it is clear that
1:07:02
his upbringing, personal challenges, and untreated mental health issues played a huge and
1:07:08
a significant role. Now the story of Mark David Chapman serves as basically a
1:07:12
reminder for the potential or for the importance of understanding and addressing those mental health
1:07:17
concerns, as well as the potential consequences of unchecked obsessions. And it also
1:07:23
highlights the profound impact that public figures like John Lennon can have on individuals' lives.
1:07:28
Even in ways that lead to unimaginable outcomes. His early life. Chapman's
1:07:32
early life is a somber It's a tale of how a troubled individual's path can
1:07:39
connect with a broader cultural influence, resulting in an explosion or a devastating and
1:07:45
lasting legacy that is not what anybody really wanted, no matter how much you
1:07:50
might have disagreed with John or what he did. Nobody, I don't well,
1:07:56
I would say nobody actually would ever want to hang the vice president.
1:07:59
But I'm pretty sure we proved that the opposite. Anyways, you know,
1:08:06
John, you know there's a lot of people, there's people out there who
1:08:14
something tragic happens to them, and you wonder if they would have been as
1:08:18
popular if it didn't happen to them. That's not a question that I ask
1:08:23
about John. I think if John continued, I think John would have done
1:08:29
what he did, you know, continued to do. I think he'd still
1:08:32
be alive today. He certainly wouldn't be that old. But he died before
1:08:43
he got to be what he was meant to be. Yeah. Absolutely,
1:08:47
And and and you know it's it's a it's just sad, you know,
1:08:56
I I I mourned for anybody who has this happened to them, when I
1:09:00
mean as often as I hear it, which is very often. Uh.
1:09:05
And it's not because he's a celebrity, however, given his his platform and
1:09:13
his message which overall give piece of chance. My name's John Lennon, give
1:09:20
piece of gens. Uh. That's the worst Liverpool accent that I've ever pulled
1:09:25
out of my butt, especially very offensive, probably to at least the two
1:09:31
people from the UK. Uh. That was awful. That was awful.
1:09:42
I know. I'm so sorry laughing emjis here. My name's Pool and I'm
1:09:47
from Liverpool. I can't do it. I'm too I'm two gins in.
1:09:51
It doesn't fly. My mouth doesn't want to work the way it should,
1:09:57
which is for Liverpool, not at all. But how many times does he
1:10:01
come up on parole? It has been uh A one second, one second,
1:10:06
one second. I should have written that down. Now that's okay,
1:10:14
I have the there is a record of this, okay. So in two
1:10:23
thousand he had a fifty minute hearing obviously denied. Two thousand and two,
1:10:29
two thousand and four, two thousand and six, two thousand and eight,
1:10:33
twenty ten, twelve fourteen, sixteen, eighteen, twenty twenty two, twenty
1:10:40
four, thirteen times, sorry, twelve times. His thirteenth time is in
1:10:44
twenty twenty four, and that'll be Yeah, that'll be his thirteenth hearing.
1:10:48
In twenty twenty two, he admitted he knew what he did was wrong,
1:10:51
but quote wanted the fame too much, and they denied his parole due to
1:10:56
his action, leaving quote the world recovering from the boy of which he created.
1:11:01
Now, so okay, if he would have killed somebody that wasn't John
1:11:06
Lennon, he would have already been out. But they're saying because he stopped
1:11:15
the world from having more of John Lennon, because John Lennon was so great,
1:11:19
that they're going to continue punishing him instead of the fact that he took
1:11:26
a man of life. Yep, it's uh to use that language to justify
1:11:43
Yeah, I'm not saying that he should be out. What I'm saying is
1:11:45
to you, that language to justify somebody being in indicates that John Lennon's life
1:11:51
all more valuable than himself. Although we had a message, they're saying that
1:11:55
it was worth more social currency or currency in general. They're assigning value you
1:12:00
to life. You know, individual lives, right, So if this guy
1:12:03
would have killed me instead, he'd be out already, or they would have
1:12:11
used different terminology to keep him in. Yeah, I'm honestly, honestly,
1:12:16
I'm gonna go ahead and say it. This might be an unpopular opinion.
1:12:19
If he would have killed Sammy Davis Junior, he would have already been out.
1:12:26
Now. I hate to say it, but it's probably true. Why
1:12:30
did they give him the option opportunity of parole because it was second degree?
1:12:34
Oh? Because it was second degree? Because they only gave him twenty years.
1:12:40
So he's been up for a parole this many times because he was only
1:12:42
given twenty years, So every like two or three years, it seems he's
1:12:45
up. So basically somebody has written on his file never to be released,
1:12:53
and they just keeped on the pony show. Didn't we release the guy who
1:12:58
shot? Uh? Yes? Reagan? Reagan, Yes, we released him
1:13:10
right now. It didn't end in death. But President, no matter whether
1:13:16
you agree with his politics or not, I would imagine that's a federal crime
1:13:24
in some way, shape or form. I I think I don't like the
1:13:30
reason that they're saying that they're doing it yeah, I do not at all
1:13:35
appreciate that reason whatsoever. They literally could have said anything, and I would
1:13:44
have rather at this point it would have been it would have been a better
1:13:46
idea to lie than to tell the truth, because we know what the reality
1:13:49
is. But you might as well records say he doesn't show enough remorse.
1:13:55
But right, he's been in for long enough to where you know, maybe
1:14:01
he has at some point and he has done a bunch of those programs because
1:14:06
what else is there to do in forty years? So here we are,
1:14:12
Okay, Well I just looked something up on him. Do you know he
1:14:17
gets regular conjugal visits since twenty fourteen with his wife. He gets forty four
1:14:25
hours alone with his wife and a special specially built prison home. He only
1:14:30
needs twenty seconds. What's the point? I was like, they're not ever
1:14:36
going to let him out. No. However, if his marriage failed and
1:14:44
that was one of the driving reasons for him wanting to feel like somebody,
1:14:49
then this means that he was married. See I don't look up a lot
1:14:53
of the relationship stuff post, but this would mean he was married in prison.
1:14:58
Correct, that's what it looks like. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
1:15:03
somebody, Yeah, Jaden said, what, Yeah, looks like he got
1:15:11
married. Yeah. Oh hy but yeah, it looks like. But I
1:15:20
guess the thing I have a problem with is if you're going to make somebody
1:15:27
stay in prison and you're going to deny their parole, why don't you just
1:15:32
say you're sentencing them to life without parole? Why give a I don't agree
1:15:39
with giving carrots and just dangling it when no matter what he does, no
1:15:46
matter if he is remorseful, has become a good person, they're not let
1:15:51
him out. So why don't you just be honest in telling that? Why
1:16:00
are we being deceptive? H I don't know. I don't know. Oh,
1:16:06
here we go. Wait, hold on, wait a second. I
1:16:15
don't think they ever actually divorced. Oh so they were still married in twenty
1:16:21
two. I was thinking about my case. That's why I was thinking.
1:16:27
Let me just read a clip of this. You think I would have looked
1:16:30
this stuff up. But yeah, he is still married to the same person
1:16:33
he married in seventy nine. This is Hawaii News Now. In twenty twenty,
1:16:40
this article came out and she she calls December eighth, nineteen eighty,
1:16:50
the darkest day of her life. That's the day she became missus Mark David
1:16:54
Chapman, so she I'm trying to look here. For more than twenty five
1:17:06
years, they've shared conjugal visits in New York prisons where he served time,
1:17:11
and together together they run the up Prison Ministry. Her her friends and loved
1:17:21
ones encouraged her to leave her husband, even her husband said divorce would be
1:17:26
the best option. She says she sought counsel on whether to leave the marriage
1:17:30
and so fascinating. In the Book of Malachi, I read quote I hate
1:17:39
divorce for me. That settled it, and I closed my Bible. From
1:17:43
that point on, I decided it didn't matter how long Mark was in prison.
1:17:45
I would wait for him. They were married in seventy nine. He's
1:17:49
still in prison, yep. So that's fascinating. He was physically abusive to
1:17:58
her, yep. He called He called John Lennon a phony just like and
1:18:04
Catcher in the RYE valued money and fame over his music, which I don't
1:18:09
know is exactly true. So it's fascinating. I don't see that they ever
1:18:16
had children, do you. No, No, I don't see anything that
1:18:20
says they had kids. This is fascinating too. In October, Chapman flew
1:18:26
off to New York. When he returned, he confessed his fan plan to
1:18:30
his wife. He had gone to kill John Lennon but hadn't carried through.
1:18:34
He said, my love had saved him, and uh, she said,
1:18:39
uh. Even he even had me hold the gun, which was still cold
1:18:43
from being in the plane's cargo hold. Wow. He said he threw the
1:18:48
gun into the ocean, and I believed him, but he lied to me.
1:18:53
Oh yeah, And this was one of those things where she said that
1:19:00
he had been jil Lennon had been assassinated, and she knew exactly who did
1:19:05
it. Now, if he got out, do you think the public would
1:19:16
be safe or just until he found somebody else to fixate on, Because in
1:19:23
prison people always say, well they did well in prison, they didn't.
1:19:27
Well, there wasn't another person for him to kill for the same reason.
1:19:33
I mean, there are some people that thrive in prison. I think he
1:19:35
was able to find a balance because there really wasn't another option. Now,
1:19:40
because I don't know, and because I think it's a combination of this is
1:19:49
I'm not a doctor, I play one on the live stream. It's a
1:19:54
combination of what I think it was was a combination of his past in his
1:19:59
history and what happened to him in terms of moving and being uprooted in all
1:20:01
of that. So you have that, and then I think you have culture,
1:20:08
and culture gave him catcher in the Rye, and culture gave him the
1:20:11
Beatles, and culture gave him stuff that then merged with his issues, the
1:20:15
issues that he had, and he just was able to justify what he was
1:20:18
about to do for multiple reasons, wrong as they are are. I don't
1:20:26
know. I just can't. I guess I just can't see a Joel ostein
1:20:30
book and flave of flave driving him to want to create to do this again,
1:20:38
so you know what I mean, Like if that makes sense, I
1:20:43
guess. I don't know. If it was a combination of he may have
1:20:45
caused. He may have committed a serious, serious crime m even without the
1:20:53
culture and the stuff that was put in front of him. However, I
1:20:58
don't know, I look like a president. I don't know. I don't
1:21:04
know if it would have I don't know if it would have been the same
1:21:06
situation today or without the catcher and the Rye or without the Beatles. So
1:21:14
you know, I'm not saying he wouldn't have been bad. I'm not saying
1:21:15
you wouldn't have been right, but you know, he was given a target
1:21:20
in his head, So I don't know. I want to look to see
1:21:28
the most times parole has been denied because I wonder. I mean, how
1:21:40
most is fifteen times and I think he'll beat it. Fifteen times is the
1:21:48
most parole has been denied for somebody as of now. He's only in his
1:21:54
seventies, right, I said seventy four or seventy seven? And if that
1:21:59
he's up every two years. Yeah, I mean he doesn't. He doesn't
1:22:02
look like he's really I don't know what his health is internally, but externally,
1:22:06
he doesn't look like he's having an issue. I mean, for somebody
1:22:13
who looks like a jolly old elf, I'm not thinking he looks too bad.
1:22:17
He really could go play Santa and Miracle on thirty fourth Street and I
1:22:21
wouldn't question it. So no, wait, hold on, I'm getting your
1:22:27
the wrong guy. I'm like, wait a minute, what is my life?
1:22:30
Oh boy, Mark Chapman doesn't look like Santa Claus? What is my
1:22:39
life? And I'm the one stone cold sober yep mm hmmm mmm hmm.
1:22:47
So he looks much different now I did share a screen. Then let me
1:22:54
share a screen now and then we'll probably wrap up. So this is what
1:23:00
he looked like then, okay, which is fascinating. Uh, and I
1:23:06
will say this, he looks much better now. Oh wow, he looks
1:23:15
healthier now, he does. He does, and so I it's wow,
1:23:26
I mean this is the Yeah, yeah, it's uh. He really is
1:23:30
one of those guys who I think just absolutely thrived in a prison setting.
1:23:38
Uh, at least at least physically thrived. I don't know end he thrived,
1:23:43
although if he was participating in programs and getting out there and he was
1:23:47
you know, running a ministry, right, and if they're giving him medication
1:23:51
and giving him the support and stuff he needs with his mental health, because
1:23:57
just that can do a whole change. Well, Lisa is not wrong.
1:24:03
He does look a little like Rose West in his younger days. You're not
1:24:08
wrong on O one, which says a lot about Rose West and less about
1:24:14
Mark. So here we are. Yep. Well everyone, it's been a
1:24:24
solid two hours and forty six minutes. That's a long time, which I
1:24:30
think is the longest that that you've streamed. So far right, I think,
1:24:36
so we're a good reached So so thanks everybody for joining us. I
1:24:46
appreciate it. I'm gonna let Terry do her normal close out, but I'm
1:24:49
also gonna do mine real quick. Uh, take care of yourself and take
1:24:53
care of others. Don't forget to smile as our as our our viewer fan
1:25:00
your pantu fla says, uh, don't let anybody doll your sparkle, so
1:25:03
shine on you crazy diamonds. Okay, I like that, and let's see
1:25:11
if I can remember mine today. Stay safe, watch out for crime,
1:25:16
and enjoy your wine time. Did it? Do it? Sounds about right
1:25:19
to me? Okay? Good? I am so off today, but that's
1:25:25
okay. This is fun and I kind of like doing it in this format.
1:25:30
Yes, and thanks everybody for for chilling with us. Thank you chilling.
1:25:35
Did we say we're going to try and do this this double feature type
1:25:39
thing like once a month, once a month, and so the last Thursday
1:25:44
of the month will do it. There it is last Thursday of the month,
1:25:47
so uh, you know, mark that on your calendar, not mark
1:25:50
David Chapman and that on your calendars. Mark it on your calendar and with
1:25:54
that. I think we're going to close it out with our ultro video,
1:25:59
so do it. Bye everybody, Hi guys, everybody have a great week
1:26:01
or weekend later. Thank you for listening to True Crime and Wine Time.
1:26:11
Until next time, stay safe, watch out for crime, and enjoy your
1:26:16
wine time. Editing done by Handsome Hobby and music by Attic Gold. All
1:26:23
sources can be found in the notes on your podcast app.