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The Enneagram & Transformation | The Wholehearted Enneagram Summit '21 · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_03: Hi, my name is Amy Wicks, and I help you navigate the overwhelm and frustration of motherhood through faith, Enneagram, and simple plans.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_03: As a faith-based Enneagram coach, I champion you to love your mothering style because you are the mom your kids need, even when you don't feel like it.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a mountain mama who somehow ended up on a cul-de-sac in the Midwest, overwhelmed and frustrated by motherhood.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_03: But the Lord didn't let me stay there.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_03: He helped me turn the challenges of motherhood into a wholehearted decision to get intentional with my faith, my self-awareness, and my family.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_03: Each episode of this podcast provides perspective through story, wholehearted purpose, and simple plan so you can discover how to love your mothering style and be confident that you are the mom your kids need.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_03: Think of this podcast as your on-the-go mom pal and friend who can't help but talk about Jesus and the Enneagram.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_03: So get to that pile of laundry or hit the treadmill or load up the kids in the car for that grocery run.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_03: Get ready to be encouraged and empowered while you listen.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_03: This is the Simply Wholehearted Podcast.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if it's because I'm an Enneagram 7 or or what, but I just like to try a little bit before I buy it.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_03: But I also like a little taste of something to see if I want more as well.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: I love to have the opportunity to have lots of different things and not indulge too much.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_03: So today I thought I would give you a few samples of the wholehearted Enneagram Summit, which is happening August 23rd.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_03: In fact, these next three episodes of season 16 of the podcast will be brief snippets of some of the fabulous sessions offered in this year's summit.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_03: Now, I can't give everything away because I can't even begin to share of all the goodness and wisdom from this endeavor, but I want to at least give you some idea.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_03: So first up is my Enneagram 6 friend, Jessica Betts.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_03: She's not only a campus ministry leader, but she also runs the Instagram account, Me Enneagram, and she leads out the summit with the messages of grace each type needs to hear.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_03: On the full summit session, Jessica is going to share about her journey with the Enneagram and even how important it can be in understanding your unique mental health journey.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_03: Of course, she talks about her other full-time work and a little bit more about how we are not our emotional struggle.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_03: We're going to jump partway into our conversation and then I'll be back to introduce you to our sample session number two.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_03: I would just say we'll talk about it too, is like I love Jessica's feed.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_03: I love your message that you pour out with such, I feel the love behind it.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_03: There's so much just that's like the best compliment.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_03: It's true.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm going to give you a chance because squares are static.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_03: So this is our opportunity to have it come forth and come through.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_03: So for whoever's watching, whoever's listening today.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_03: So if you want to again, you kind of touched on a little bit, maybe give us the high view of what you're going to share today.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_03: And then we're going to go through each type, starting with the type six in honor of you, the fact that you lead as a type six, and then we'll make our way around clockwise and um and go from there.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_03: So fire away.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_03: Awesome.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yay.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_05: So I'm super excited.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, I think, like I said before, I love the Enneagram, but I love Jesus more.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_05: And so I'm thankful that he's given us the tool of the Enneagram uh to really understand each other better and honor and love each other better, but really uh to honor him better and love Jesus better.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_05: Uh and so with that in mind, that's kind of the story of what really shaped my page, this idea of let's be disciples of Jesus together and let's do it better because we can.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, and I think it's the line of when you know better, you do better.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_05: And so as we begin to teach, uh teach people what it looks like to love Jesus well, we can walk in that and we can experience freedom.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_05: And so that's really the base of all the stories that I do, all the posts that I do come from that place.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_05: I just want people to love Jesus well because he loves us so well.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, and I think the the series that really uh ties into this, and I think it might be what maybe put me on your radar even, was I was reading my Bible one day, uh, and I came to 2 Corinthians, and I believe it's 9 12, might be 12-9.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_05: I'm when I'm nervous, I get a little flustered.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_05: So here I here I am.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_05: But what it is, is it it says his grace is sufficient for you.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_05: Therefore, I will I boast in my weakness because I know in my weakness I see Christ's strength all the more.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_05: And I remember reading that, and I had been through uh, you know, I'm an Enneagram six, so I already kind of go through worst-case scenarios sometimes, as we've talked about before.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, but I also have anxiety, and so it's played this really interesting role in my life of like having to understand like where is just self-control and faith and prayer, and then also where is like professional help play into my play into my life, and both are totally necessary.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_05: Both, I believe, honor God when we walk in it well, and so I'm already kind of prone to anxiousness, prone to worry.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_05: And I was in the time of having a really like uh we can call it season, but it was just really hard.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_05: And I read this and I realized like even in my weakness, like even in my worry, even in my anxiousness, like God is still doing something good, and that is his grace.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_05: And when I when I started thinking about that, I really saw that through the Enneagram, through this understanding of like, I am so prone to fear, I'm so prone to all of these things, and yet the work of the cross isn't just good for the bigger picture, it's good for the now.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_05: And so I can be weak and understand that he is strong.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_05: And it doesn't mean I don't have a personal responsibility to walk in lordship, but the grace that God allows me is that I can walk every day because of the grace that he extends towards me.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_05: And so, in my weakness, in my fear, in all these things, I am not that.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_05: I am not my emotion, I am not my feeling.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_05: I can feel things and not be things.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_05: And when I feel things and submit them to Jesus, he becomes my strength and my source and my song.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_05: And so I really felt this overwhelming understanding of grace in that moment in a way that I really hadn't before.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_05: Uh and the Enneagram, like I said, it gave me the language to really uh trust God, honor God, and point out those areas in my life that I was prone to anxiousness in and prone to really rely on myself in and give those to him.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_05: And I've seen myself really grow in lordship and really grow in uh walking in the freedom of his grace because of that.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_05: And so I wrote down a list of all the things that made me anxious that were making me anxious.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_05: And it was like his grace is enough when I can't get out of bed, was one of the ones that I had.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_05: His grace was enough when I felt like I couldn't get the plan together, his grace was enough when I felt like I might be letting people down because I was still working through things, his grace was enough for the little things, like I got my coffee order wrong and I wanted to go off and I knew I shouldn't because I'm a missionary.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_05: And so his grace was enough to meet me there too.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_05: And I thought to myself, how many people know this for themselves?
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_05: Really, truly, how many people know that God's grace is sufficient even in our weakness?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_05: And in our weakness, it makes him known, him strong, and we can walk in it.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_05: And so I wrote uh, I wrote uh, what is that, the questions on Instagram?
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_05: And I said, Who else has even when moments?
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_05: Who else has these moments where you need to be reminded that God's grace is enough even when?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_05: And I ended up getting more responses to that series than I had previously.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_05: It was insane.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, because what I began to realize, and it was funny because the numbers, there was always a thread through them, no matter what it was.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_05: There was a thread, and it matched our core fears and our core desires so well.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_05: And so I would see things like God's grace is enough even when I don't know if I'm gonna be able to pay this bill.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_05: I saw God's grace is enough even when I feel like I'm not a good parent.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_05: God's grace is enough even when I didn't get into this college, God's grace is enough even when I can't figure out what's next.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_05: And it became this overarching story of we need to be reminded that God's grace is enough because it is.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_05: The cross was enough.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_05: And the way that we experience his grace is really through our desires when we submit them to him.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_05: And I believe that every story um and every number has a way that we can understand God's grace um in a new way, in a fresh way that really uh draws us back to him.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_05: And so uh that was the series, and that's it's become a continual series.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_05: I'm sure I'll do one again coming up soon.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, because I think there's a reminder like his mercy is new every day, his new it's new every morning.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_05: Why is that?
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_05: Because I'm prone to forget it.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and I think the more we see these series, the more we have these conversations with each other, we begin to realize like, okay, I'm prone to forget God's goodness, but if I can just remember, I'm so much quicker to submit things to him.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_03: Jessica, this is so good.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm I want to pull on a thread just for a moment because of what something you said.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I if I could unpack it like this, and I I think when we talk about Enneagram, you said, I I felt uh this way, but I am not this way.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_03: So if I would put in light of the Enneagram and just in threes and a cute little, you know, three triad thing would be you might um feel some anxiety, but you don't have to be an anxious person.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_03: You might feel anger, but you don't have to be an angry person.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_03: You might feel embarrassed, but you don't have to walk around shame-filled.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's the difference when we can identify those things, right?
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_03: Of like going, okay, I do feel some anxiety and I do feel some anxiousness, but I don't have to be that.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_03: And again, I know when we say anxiety, like you talked about, there is a difference in a medical condition and just an emotion.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_03: And what we're talking about is emotion today, um, when we when we talk about that and anything Enneagram related.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so and I know we've addressed that a couple of times, but I know people who have, you know, personal, whether it's personal situation or family members, like that's important to distinguish.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_03: But this is where when we invite the Lord in and his lordship, we don't have to be that person.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_03: It's just a feeling that we can give over to the Lord.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_05: So exactly.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_05: And I think that's also really important because I think it's not enough to just say that Enneagram is a tool.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_05: It is, it's a great tool, but I think the problem is we can use the wrong tool for the wrong job.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, and then it's a disaster.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_05: And so what we do with personality diagnostics and tests a lot of times is we try to use it as this, like for our own lives, we'll use it as a magnifying glass and we'll begin to like examine every flaw that is in us, or we'll use it as a hammer and like try to like beat people down with it and and hold people to who they are and nail them to that.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_05: But when we look at the Enneagram, I think, and I've said it before, I truly believe the best tool it can be used as is a compass because we can feel what we feel, but can we point it back to Jesus?
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_05: And that's really what the Enneagram has has done.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_05: Can can I can feel these things, I know it's on the horizon.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_05: I have the language and the knowledge of it now, and that really, really helps because when I know it, I can identify it, and when I can identify it, I can submit it.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_05: And so it should be this thing that always points us back.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_05: I feel this way, I see these things, I notice these patterns.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_05: How do I point it back to Jesus?
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_03: Next up is Kim Eddy, creator of Christian Enneagram.coach.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_03: And we actually did two sessions, but this one is a bonus session.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_03: It's exclusive for the all access pass holders.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_03: Now, what is an all access pass, you might ask?
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I'm glad you did, because you can attend this summit for free, like I've mentioned.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_03: But if you want to watch each session at your leisure, plus get these two bonus sessions and exclusive discounts and giveaways, well, you might want to get the all access pass, which is only$47 until midnight of August 22nd.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_03: Now, in this bonus conversation, we dive right into the topic of Christian overlays for women of each Enneagram type.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_03: And oh boy, I love this one.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_03: We're gonna dive into what it is and why understanding it matters.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: And if I can just mirror what you said, like there is no, I don't think there is a place for malice in this conversation.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: There is no place for, like you said, shame.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: I think that God is um big, big enough for our questions.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: There is grace for um for us to share and process through wounding that even comes from his people, right?
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: God is bigger than his people.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and I I think that this conversation can be really freeing uh for people who who maybe don't who maybe are limiting themselves, like you said, and their personality or their gifting or their uh the beautiful, multifaceted way that God has made them.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: And uh can it can free us to be us, to be fully ourselves, um, even if based on the church community that we grew up in, or um, you know, that's kind of the conversation we're having here, but even culturally or or um, you know, uh societally, I think that freeing ourselves to be ourselves um helps us all.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: It helps us all because it will make some people uncomfortable until they're like, no, actually, this is the way you're made, and that's beautiful, which is growth for me, because I can accept that and not feel like there's only one right way to be.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: So um uh so yes, thank you for saying all that.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: I completely agree.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so uh for people who might be here who may not know what an overlay is.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: Is it is it okay if I just quickly thank you.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_03: I was gonna say, yeah, we probably should explain that.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_03: It's not terminology we necessarily use in everyday.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: It can be kind of a secondary or next level idea when you're talking about the Enneagram.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: And really, what an overlay is, is um these pressures or expectations or norms that have been kind of laid on us and can affect how we show up in the world or how we feel like it's okay to show up in the world.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: And um for for some people, overlays can make it hard for us to find our type.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like, for example, if you came from a household that uh had, let's say, a type 8 parent, and children learned how to stand up for themselves and they learned some of these behaviors, and and there was just a um a sometimes it's a big presence, sometimes it's just constant, like this is the way we are, this is who we are, and you learn that, you learn to be that, you learn to embody that, even if that's not who you are.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and for some of us, learning and and seeing these overlays can be kind of a jarring experience because then you're like, well, wait, who am I?
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: If I if I'm not these things that were pressed upon me, who am I?
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um so so there's also room for that.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: This conversation might be a little bit jarring.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_02: You might find it challenging even your thinking of, but wait, that's in the Bible, you know, as as we talk about some of these things.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um and yes, it is, but probably there's some other things that are equal opposites, and a lot of life is living intentionally.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: And um, so all of that to say, when we talk about Christian overlays, and I'd like to know your thoughts because we haven't really defined this between ourselves.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I'll give you what I think, um Amy.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and that is the way that we grew up in a Christian culture for Amy and I, this is probably going to be your American evangelical Christian culture, right?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: Your local church, and the resources and teachings that come with that, right?
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and the ways that you speak, the language that you learn, the behaviors that are pronounced more often or expected of you, that uh may or may not be healthy in the moment, right?
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: There's a certain way that you might be expected to be.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: And when we talk about Christian overlays, sometimes you are expected to be a certain way, or your relationship with God might be questioned.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: There's also this moral component, spiritual component to a Christian overlay that can be really heavy.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's a mantle that we carry.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: I'm expected to be this way, or people might not view me on the same spiritual level.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um again, it can be a jarring conversation.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes my type one comes out and be like, this is how it is.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so so I'm avoiding that.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: There's so much nuance in this conversation, for sure.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it can be a little benign, like uh, and we might get into some that are you're like, well, that's okay.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's okay to expect that.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um and some can be taken to an extreme and be really harmful where you are telling people or judging people's uh spirituality based on personality traits that are neither good no nor bad.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like they have nothing to do with whether they love Jesus, right?
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's being there's something being pressed upon them simply because they're making somebody uncomfortable, not because of any intention for wrongdoing.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so it really runs the the spectrum from totally benign and things we might laugh at, right?
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like stereotypical huh, you know, the twos bringing the casseroles or whatever, all the way to um things that can be really harmful.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: You aren't allowed to be you and be a part of this church.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think probably a lot of our conversation is going to be in the middle.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_02: If your experience has been harmful, I want to encourage you to before we start this conversation, because you might find it difficult to be in this conversation if you have.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_02: I want to encourage you to reach out to somebody who understands spiritual trauma, you know, spiritual hurt, and can help walk you through that and validate you through that as you work through uh what does God say about me, even if someone who loves God said something hurtful about me, about who I am in God, um, which is possible when we don't allow other people to be different.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so all of that to say, we dove head in uh head first into the end, I think.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: But what do you what do you think, Amy?
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: What do Christian overlays kind of have denote for you?
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: What do those mean?
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_03: I would say very much the same thing.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_03: It's the heavy burden and yoke that people are carrying in expectation.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_03: Again, this is why I think the Enneagram, how I see it is you it's taking people out of the box.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_03: Because for me, once I realized I wasn't a two, I wasn't a three, I was a seven.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_03: The free to be me, the healthy me, it was so liberating.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_03: And I've I feel like I found myself again.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_03: And just there was so much joy in that.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_03: And again, then it wasn't living under something else's expectations or someone else's expectations.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think it's going.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, what were again expectations?
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_03: We're calling out specifically in, you know, the Christian culture, but this can happen at home.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_03: This can happen between siblings.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_03: This can happen with parents.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_03: This can, this can happen in a job.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_03: This can you know happen again in ministry, right?
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_03: Or the role that we're we're asked to play.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm excited because I want, I want it to be used as a way to bust outside of the box, never a license for poor behavior or to be obnoxious about, well, this is just who I am.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_03: But but rather freeing.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because yeah, I just that's the whole goal here.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um that's that's the joy of it.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_03: So um yeah, I'm I think it's gonna be really, really good.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_03: Because and the other thing too is that this might help people and I why I want it to be a bonus session here.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm hoping that those um who are gonna join us for the summit, they're watching this ahead of time because you may have some not just preconceived notions about the personality types, but maybe you've mistyped yourself because the environment that you were in, the the overlay, if you will, that you experienced has you mistaken about how you lead.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_03: So um, and the other pieces I've joked, Kim, that um because for some reason, and you may have experienced this too, is that I have almost thought about starting a pastor's kid anonymous support group because for some reason I have attracted so many clients.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_03: I I can't even tell you the percentage.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_03: It's probably like 70 to 80% of my clients grew up as pastor's kids.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_03: And this is in talking about finding someone to support you.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't ever advertise that, but inadvertently I've helped support them as they journey through not severe spiritual abuse or anything, but but some of the overlays, some of the, you know, expectations, uh, some of the hardship um that has.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_03: So if you're a fellow pastor's kid, we see you.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um I definitely uh we understand you're not the only one out there.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_03: So um so anyway, um, so I'm kind of curious, do you want to give some other general ideas or would you like to talk about the types that come to your mind first as we're as we're exploring some of this?
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so um maybe maybe the second one, because I think that there are some that kind of jump out at us, some stereotypes or some stereotype, stereotypical expectations of how to be, and also some stereotypical suppressing of what you're allowed to be.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe the same two types come to mind for you.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: For me, that's on the one hand, type two, uh-huh when we're talking about women, especially, yes, um, and the expectation to be that way.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: And then on the other hand, type eight and the repressing of how to be that way.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think they're really good examples to start with because um, and then maybe we can get into the nuance of some of the other ones.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: Every type has some things.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but so so one of the things that really got me looking at this uh a couple of years ago, I had someone tell me I was sharing about type twos and their unique gifting and um how they're as beautiful as every other type and struggle as as much as any other type, but in their unique ways.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I had somebody tell me um to be Christ-like is to be a two.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: And that stopped me in my tracks.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like I it hurt, like it hurt me.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: I wasn't a two.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: It hurt me for that person.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like, oh no, like like there's there's so much more, there's so much more beauty um beyond the autopilot tendencies of a two, and and getting to the heart of the why and and freeing yourself from that why uh a two might do what they do, uh, even unintentionally, and allowing Jesus to be that why um and instead focusing on the outer behaviors.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it looks like you're doing what you should do.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: So that's Christ-like.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_02: And um not not to bash on this person.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: It was it was the phrase that really stopped me in my tracks, like there's something here.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_02: I gotta dig deeper into what this is.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so I started looking kind of with my eyes open a little bit more, like noticing what was said, what was happening.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so what I mean uh when I say we kind of expect a lot of type two behaviors from women um is is we do expect women to defer, we do expect women to step in and help, we do expect women to fill in the gaps and know what's needed and do the thing.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I know many, maybe all many of your attendees to to this summit are going to be women.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, a lot of them.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_03: So that's kind of where I'm the majority, yeah.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the majority are going to be women.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so there is this expectation if you are a woman, you put on a lot of the behaviors that a type two would naturally gravitate towards.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_02: And this is harmful for every type, but I think it's especially harmful for a type two um, because they're being reinforced to continue patterns that they're not aren't healthy, yeah, to be stuck in.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: And it's almost like they're being uh pushed, buckled in by the people around them.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like, no, don't get out of that.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_02: Uh stay there, stay there.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_02: You're you're in your lane, yeah.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_02: You're good, you're fine.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_03: Stay there.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_03: And overextend and don't have boundaries and you know, be the first person at the scene, even though your family is dying on the vine because you're busy helping everybody.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, absolutely.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_02: And that's being reinforced and um uh pressured to stay that way.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: And it's a difficult place to be in because when a type two is ready to uh open up to boundaries and open up to uh being healthfully assertive and open up to uh intentionally living in each situation, you know, taking on the different aspects of Jesus, flipping a table now and then, or whatever that looks like, you know.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, they're being told no, what you were doing when it was unhealthy and didn't serve you or ultimately us, you should be doing that.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like go back to that, please.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_02: And that's really harmful for it too.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_03: The next sample is with the beautiful Chinaio from Malaysia.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yep, we're traveling around the globe on Zoom for this one.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_03: She is such a dear.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_03: And we dove into the topic of defense mechanisms for each type and the actions you can take to experience transformation.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_03: Here's more from Chinai.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: So, in my sort of certification uh course, uh the coaching certification course, I uh I went to uh Enneagram in business, um Ginger Lapit Bogda's um certification course.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, so so really, really honored, uh really blessed to be able to go um and attend the course uh by her and from there learned about the defense mechanisms uh that each type brings bring to the table whenever they're in stressful situations that they they sort of um the sense of self gets happened, right?
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's when the defense mechanisms like sort of kick in.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and so yeah, that that that's uh basically what um I'll be sharing.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't know what I can call myself, like teaching, because um I I too am like an a learner um and and just really learning um and and wanting to understand more as I share with people and then people give feedback.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's the that's the best way for for me uh to learn um and and yeah, and and for transformation to take place.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I think um, as you mentioned about transformation, I think the the best, sort of not the best, but um the way that understanding our defense mechanisms um then help us to sort of come to transformation is that when the defense mechanisms come up and show up, um if we know about them, if we are aware about them, um then we can take action.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um we can take action to sort of identify them and then name them and then sort of address those defense mechanisms at its core rather than just trying to fix the the system, right?
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: So really like looking and see what is the cost for for this um behavior to show up, what is the cause for the thought pattern to show up, and then uh really understanding it from our enagram type and the enogram and the defense mechanism that is um sort of strongly associated with these um different defense mechanisms.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm gonna share it um from the length that the way I understand the the sort of the nine uh nine defense mechanisms.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um for the three, um we whenever sort of our sense of self is being threatened, um, and and we want to because please are so image conscious and and we're keen to ensure that people see us in the best light because we are afraid that if um if we don't if you don't see us in the best light, then we might be worth nothing.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: We we sort of question our worth um when when we're not crafting an image and when we feel like our image um is not like we cannot hold out ourselves, right?
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: Our authentic self.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and when um when our friend ourselves then gets happened, um, we fall into the defense mechanism of identification.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: So what identification means here is that when we unconsciously sort of incorporate attributes and characteristics of another person into our own personality in terms of self, right?
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I think for me, um the way that that happens is like um whenever I feel sort of stressed or a feel threaten, I don't feel like I belong.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think I think for me like a sense of belonging and a sense of self are quite intertwined with one another, um, especially with people I I see as role models I look up to.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think what happens when my friends of self-setters is that um I would try to at least um I just see myself from the length of the person that I look up to, or what I see about them that I like and I admire, I try to conform myself into.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: Does that make sense?
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so if I if I if I see someone I admire, like the way that they talk is like this, you know, like I might unconsciously really just start to like mimic these things.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: Because I want to be identified with that person.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: I want to be identified uh yeah, with that person, basically.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um so so that's the that's the threes defense mechanism identification.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_03: Last but not least, this is a little portion from the final day of the summit, which is going to be so much fun because yep, you can count on me for some celebration.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_03: We can't have a gathering and skip the fun, right?
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_03: So Friday the 27th, I've even invited a couple of comedians to amp up the laughter in our lives.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_03: Now, Deo is the creator of the Black Enneagram, and we address the need for a variety of voices in the Enneagram space.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_03: And she also gets to share some of her typing experience with characters from her favorite TV shows.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_03: We laugh a lot, and here's a sample.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then how I got into this like black Enneagram space.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yes, I am the founder of the Black Enneagram.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so during my journey of, you know, learning about my own my own type, um, I started to like follow Instagram pages and talk about the Enneagram.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then, but I I don't know if you noticed this, but like there's two spaces.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: There's like the serious therapy counseling, you know, side of the Enneagram, Instagram space.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: There's like the very silly, right?
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: Things are the very silly, you know, like fun.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: Let's type TV shows, let's type, you know, animals and type all the, you know, there's there's two worlds, right?
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: The memes, yes.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: So um, I felt very seen with the um very deep stuff and the very like serious stuff.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh yeah, I resonate because you know the the Enneagram is a universal language, like sometimes obviously sometimes some things that it gets wrong because like right now we've seen like it's just been taught through like a very white lens, but some most of the stuff that I feel like it resonates, I resonate with a lot.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I didn't see myself in the fun, exciting, you know, just let's bring culture into the Enneagram.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: So and so I left the Enneagram alone.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh, I I I can resonate with the deep stuff, but I I want to have fun.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like black people love to have fun, like we love to celebrate, we love joy, like that's something that's really important to us.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so I just I was because I wasn't able to see black people doing art for the Enneagram, um, talking about the Enneagram.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so I just kind of stopped my research and stopped doing my work around it.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then 2020, my senior year.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I was taking a class called Creativity and Innovation in Business.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: And one of our projects was to uh find a product or service that is uh novel, innovative, creative, no one has ever done before.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, that's hard.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: We know nothing's ever, you know, nothing's new under the sun.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, for me it was just so easy because it was like, oh, the Enneagram, like we're we're the black people.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I just and I had read this article by Mickey Scott Bay, I think that's her name, um, that is titled Um The Energim is not just white people.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that was like the start of me being like, oh, so I can actually do this.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: That article changed my life.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was so good.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so I got an iPad for my graduation gift in 2020 and started drawing.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: Just I'm I don't call myself an artist.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: I am a glorified tracer.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I am.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: But that I did the best I can with what I have and the skills that I have.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, that's how the Black IndieGam got started was me just like seeing a gap, um, a gap in the IndieGam space and wanting to be the ones to fill it, ones I think have a natural leadership capacity.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, that we are doers.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so for me, that was an easy, like it wasn't like, oh, this is scary.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, should I do this?
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: Not I was like, yeah, this is needed.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm just gonna throw myself into it.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: And if it fails, it fails.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, unfortunately, you know, the thing that made my page grow was Black Death.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, like black people dying is the thing that made my page become what it is.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I hate I hate the origins because I'm like, oh, I don't, I don't, I hate that it's you know something so traumatic that had to happen to our community for us to realize black people matter, you know, like black people, their work matters, like they should be included in conversations.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's just that that's how it had to start, but I'm really glad that you know the conversation, even though it's kind of dying now, the conversation was started at some point, you know, yeah, about the fact that we need more representation in the black and in the non-the black, in the Enneagram space.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: There we go.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_03: Totally, totally yeah, and I love that you're continuing it and you're continuing to represent.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_03: I know there's other artists and other Enneagram teachers and speakers who are representing different cultures.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it's beautiful because what you said, the Enneagram is a universal language because if we're all made in the image of God, so first in the image of God, and then male, female, and then skin color and culture.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, those it's like a pyramid.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_03: And so the the point here is the origin in the image of God.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_03: And we're just a a very finite representation of his, you know, infinite, limitless amazingness of his character.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_03: But um, but I think I think it's great.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_03: It can't be universal though, or explained universally unless there are multiple different voices representing so, and that's what you get to do.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_03: You're doing a good job.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_03: Even if you are a glorified tracer, I think you're doing way better than I would.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_03: So there's that.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: So the thing that I am like known for, or like my specialty, is finding ways to connect black culture in the Enneagram.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the big things in Black culture is our television shows.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: They're very iconic, they're very great.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: So you obviously you haven't watched a lot of Black TV shows, they're really good.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna be talking about a lot of those today.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna connect um the Black TV characters that I um really love and enjoy with their Enneagram types.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously, everything is very subjective because typing typing fictional characters is very difficult because they're you just don't know the most.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: So this just is literally like this is the Enneagram for fun.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like this is very much for fun.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_03: This is not I love it.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_03: I love it.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_03: It's so good.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_03: No, I've done a couple of podcast episodes typing different, you know, characters, movies, shows, and it it is, it's just a fun way to do it and engage.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I think one thing I've noticed that this is one, and I think it can also help with you finding your type because for me, um, when I was like reading up on people, and obviously this work, I call it work, but like it's for fun.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: But like the work that I do didn't exist before me.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, I have to do the research of finding like, oh, hey, what makes them, what do I, why, what makes them a one in my eyes?
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think that has helped other people to be like, oh, okay, like I resonate a lot with this person.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: I might be this number, you know.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I can see, I can see how I do this in this TV, like with this character TV character.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: I might, you know, it helps you to put flesh to the words.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, you see these words of, you know, this is what a type five um does or looks like, or this is their motivations.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: But I think when you put them to like fictional people, you kind of give them, you give them legs and you give them a body.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's super helpful.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_00: I've noticed it's been super helpful for people.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: So yes.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: So starting at the one, um, we're going to be talking about two people.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: I have a male and female for each of the types, so that we can so for the female type one, I felt like the quintessential type one was Claire Huxtable from a show called Cosby Show.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't know if you've seen the Cosby show, but I believe she's very principled, uh, very purposeful, very self-confident, and she has like a lot of self-control, very perfectionistic.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you also like to see her when she's healthy, being a very fun and vibrant person.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, you definitely see her going to seven a lot of times in a lot of the episodes.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, you can just, I really I don't think that she is her her ambition and her goal um is fueled from because a lot of people might think she's a three.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's fueled from this desire to like be morally correct, you know, to to do the right thing, to do the good thing.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: We see that in the way she she treats, she treats her children, but she teaches them to teach she teaches them manage, she teaches them how to be good citizens in the world.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: And she cares more about that than about image.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think that's why that's how I make the delineation between a one and a three, is that she really cares about the the more fiber of why she's doing what she's doing instead of just like how is this gonna present me and my family in the best light.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: I don't really see that in her.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_00: So that's good.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: I like that.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: A good one.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then the male version of the one was Randall Pearson.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: Randall Pearson has the strongest in their critic.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's crazy.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's I mean, yeah, like I and you get, I think you can see that throughout the entire show, how he's just like having this internal struggle, but he also has these moments of like joy.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like when he's fun, he's fun, you know, it's like he likes to dance around.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like he taps into that joy.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, like, and he I think he even ran, he and I'm sorry, this is spoilers, but like he ran for um like a I don't know if it was mayor or he like really he was like elected official.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: And his goal was to like correct all the craziness that was going on in his dad's hometown.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like he saw something wrong and he stepped in.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like that, yeah, I feel like that's number one.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I am finally glad I get to share a little about these topics that I've been working on since March of this year.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_03: No joke, this has been a work in progress.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_03: So I hope you do get your free pass.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_03: And if you're listening to this after August 23rd, 2021, don't worry, you didn't miss it.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_03: An all access pass will still be available for you.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_03: Check out the show notes for details.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I'd love to hear about what you thought.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_03: I'd be so grateful to have you give the Simply Wholehearted Podcast a five-star review and a little shout-out about why you enjoy these conversations that we are having about faith, Enneagram, and motherhood.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_03: Now remember, friend, you are the mom your kids need.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_03: Continue to pursue perspective, purpose, and plans for the wholehearted life you desire.