Latest / Contributing to Your Life / What Happens to Your Wealth Plan If You Can't Work? | Ep. 13

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What Happens to Your Wealth Plan If You Can't Work? | Ep. 13 · Contributing to Your Life

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: If you looked at this man, there was no way that you would think that something like that would happen to him.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_03: A 41-year-old.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_03: He was a very fit person, did exercise regularly, healthy weight range, and never smoked in his life.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_03: Diagnosed with a rare form of lung cancer that just turned up out of the blue.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: Most people ensure everything they own.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: The house, the car, the investment property, against things that almost never happen.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: A hundred-year flood or a cracked windshield.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_04: But the most important asset is you and your ability to earn an income.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_03: It's often overlooked until it's too late.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_03: Income protection is the most vital coverage that anyone can have.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_03: Because that that underpins your ability to keep your bills paid if you can't work, and can even allow you to keep borrowing if you if you need to in the future.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_03: This is not to scare you.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_03: You're insured your assets, the physical things that you're building up, but what about yourself?
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's the exact pattern today's guest sees, week after week, sitting across from clients who thought they were covered.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_04: We're talking with Max Pagnan, KHI Partners' very first partner, on board since 2013.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_04: A financial planner who spent his career making sure the wealth people build and the plans for their family are protected if something goes wrong along the way.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we couldn't obviously do anything from the emotional point of view to help her pain, but definitely financially that made a massive difference.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: He's going to break down the three mistakes he sees on repeat.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the first one would be
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: Before we get into the episode, please be aware that the discussions in this podcast are for informational purposes only and should not be considered financial or legal advice.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: It does not take into consideration your personal circumstances.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: Consult a qualified professional first before making any investment decisions.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_04: Welcome back for another episode of Contributing to Your Life KHI Partners.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_04: I'm really excited today, Frank.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_04: We got a really special guest.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_04: We do.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_04: Max Pagnan, financial planner, part-time karaoke, singer, part-time mountaineer, mountaineer, adventurer.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_04: But what I'm really excited to ask you, Max, is I hear you love pineapple on a pizza.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_03: Now, Aaron, I must um admit that's that's definitely false.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_03: Being of Italian background and actually born in Italy, you do not ever, ever add pineapple and pizza.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_03: I know it's been Americanized and people do it over here and and you know all that kind of stuff, but do not go to Italy and ask for pineapple on pizza.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_03: You'll be laughed at and registered.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_04: You will get a lecture, I'm telling you right now.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_04: But Max, we agree if you know pineapple and pizza.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_04: But we're really excited to have you today because we're gonna dive deep today into your field and your expertise.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_04: And you've been in industry for a very long time.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_04: But you've also, I think you were the first KHI partner as well as well.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_03: I was 2013.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_03: Officially, yeah.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we started sort of um yeah working with Trevor and Munzeral a little bit before then in terms of uh referring they referred me some clients and I looked after them and and they decided to make it a bit more formal and and uh we formed a partnership.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_03: And yes, I was the very first one.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: The OG, yeah.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_03: D OG, that's it.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: So you've seen a lot uh change over the years with KHI since you um joined the group, right?
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_03: Massive, massive, yeah.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_03: It started from a very small, you know, uh operation of a few uh people in in various offices and and it's grown to what it is today, to uh you know, uh m multi-cities around Australia and and obviously in the UK and now New Zealand and um and sort of kept progressing from there.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, great massive changes.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: Now we've brought Max in um because look, Aaron and I and and yourself, I guess, are quite um often involved with helping clients grow their wealth and and get through life and and so forth, right?
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: But sometimes something doesn't always go right, right?
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah and it's very important that when you build this plan that you need to underpin it with some level of security, right?
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: So um that's why we brought you in, Max, to kind of talk about what you do in and protect people's investment journeys and their wealth journeys.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: So do you want to just tell us a little bit about what you do?
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so uh I think what you know, if if we step back a bit, when when most people engage um the various professionals like yourselves in and and the accountants at K Ch I, um their main goal is is is like you said, growing growing their wealth.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um how do we get from A to B, you know, in the in the most positive way where they can obviously build something for their future, a legacy for their family, and and ultimately to to have a uh you know a very comfortable retirement.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_03: That's what they they um typically come and see us for.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um now what I've found is obviously you know they they focus on that side of things, getting structures in place or you know, finding the right property, getting the obviously with you guys the right finance structure, the right uh um lender that that'll give them the funding to do what they want to do and buy those those properties.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um but what they neglect to consider is okay, well, what happens, like you said, if something um doesn't go uh go well along the way, along the journey of this wealth creation.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_03: And we're talking about things that you know we don't uh we can never predict and we don't want to often think about, but you know, things like illness, a serious illness, uh a serious accident that can can um you know stop you from from working for a period of time or or God forbid, so if someone in the family passes away.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, we don't want to think of these things, but they're all things that can happen and do happen.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_03: And we all know um of people where they've they've been off work for a period of time or had an act whether it's an accident or an illness and how that may have affected them um not only emotionally and and um mentally but uh financially as well.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um or if or you've heard of stories where you know um you know someone's passed away in the family and and maybe they were the main uh you know breadwinner in the family, and then this the the the family house had to be sold as a consequence of of not having anything in place.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_03: So for for a relatively low sort of um you know outlay in terms of cost, we can we can negate those um scenarios and make sure that you know people have safety nets in place so that if if something um happens along the way, along the journey of this wealth creation, that that the them and their families are protected financially.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um and at the end of the day, you know, you don't want to um you know know obviously if you're not around, that's you you're not here to worry about it, but your family's hit left to pick up the pieces and you don't want to be in a situation where they're forced to sell the family home because of an oversight because you thought maybe your super had a a bit of insurance to cover that that event and and then looking further into it, there wasn't enough to to cover the mortgage, for example.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_03: So little things like that, just just making sure you got everything covered properly um can make a massive difference in terms of what it provides to your family.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're right, because I think a lot of the time that we have conversations, right?
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: I I would say that's almost geared towards a very blue skies view, yeah, right people trying to push limits and very almost optimistic, but uh not necessarily like allowing for things to go wrong.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it's almost an afterthought.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I I know that quite often once we've done what we're doing, I may often have that conversation.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: Have you actually thought about uh this, right?
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: And we may make an introduction to someone like yourself to to have a chat with them.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, so say we say we've gone through that journey with somebody and um we've helped them you know build a little bit of a portfolio or put a bit of a plan in place.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um when you speak to someone like that, how do you actually approach that topic?
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: Is this something that no one ever wants to think about?
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to think about being ill, yeah.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_03: Look, uh look at the end of the day, you know, if you if you go go down to the crux of it, what are what are these people doing?
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_03: Like what they're building wealth, that what are they doing it for?
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_03: Who are they doing it for?
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_03: And it comes down to you know, in the majority of cases, they're doing it for their family, right?
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_03: And you probably find that that's that's the reality of of those conversations.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_03: Now, if they're if the the focus is on is on building that wealth for the family, then it it it's it's quite simple to have the conversations, you know, you and it's I know it's not easy for everyone, but at the end of the day, look, if something happens to you, what would you like to have in place for your family if you weren't around or if you weren't able to work?
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_03: You know, do you do you want them to, you know, would your spouse be able to continue with the burden of of that debt that you've accumulated to buy these properties?
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um, or would you would you like your spouse to have some money to be comfortable and for your kids to be able to sort of go to the same schools and live in the same area?
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_03: And typically it's a no-brainer when you you put it in that those those terms, they they generally say, absolutely, I want my my partner to be looked after if something happens to me.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_03: So you know the conversation shifts around oh, do you want life insurance or do you want to do you want your family to be comfortable if something was to happen along the way?
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um so if you shift that that sort of uh language, you find that most people are receptive to it.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um and and the other way to that I sort of position it, okay, well, you've got these properties, right?
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_03: Or you know, you've bought uh other assets, your home and um you know motor vehicles, etc.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_03: Do you insure them?
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_03: And the majority of people obviously they do because you know, I don't know, many people that are building wealth with properties and and not insuring those properties, you insure them.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_03: Now the chances are that they're not gonna burn down, are they, right?
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like very rarely do you hear of someone's property burning down, but you still insure it, or you insure it for obviously tenant damage and things like that.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and insure your car, but you're not you don't insure it with a view that I'm gonna have a car accident, but God forbid, if you are in an accident, you've got, you know, your car can be fixed and and hopefully you're okay as a result of the accident.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_03: But sometimes, you know, those accidents can be pretty bad and and you can come out worse for wear.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_03: I know I had a car accident um three years ago, and uh luckily I came out of it uh without any any scratches, but it could have gone you know pear-shaped if uh you know if I hadn't put the brakes on when I did.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_03: So my point is you don't know what's around the corner.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_03: It wasn't my fault, they just cut cut in front of me and um and I reacted fairly quickly to sort of prevent anyone getting injured.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but that you know, you see accidents all the time where people just um careless or on the phone or distracted for various reasons, or they're these days people you know drinking, taking drugs, whatever, and and you're in the wrong place at the wrong time and something can happen.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, it's just about sort of putting it in that context where you've you've insured your assets, you know, isn't the the physical things that you're building up, but what about yourself?
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_03: Have you thought about you know covering yourself or your even your income?
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_03: You know, most people um think about their their largest asset, their greatest asset is their family home.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_03: If you ask someone, oh, what's your your biggest asset?
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_03: They'll they'll generally say it's their family home.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_03: Now, a smart man will generally say it's their wife, because obviously uh behind every good man there's a there's an even better woman, but uh rolling her eyes.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_03: Because my wife will be listening to this at some stage.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_03: So um, but yeah, so but but but in in in essence, they would generally say it's their it's their home, but it's not their home, it's it's your ability to earn an income because that underpins everything.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_03: If you're you know it's for you to borrow money, you need to have an income, right?
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_03: Bank's not going to give you money if you if you haven't got an income.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_03: So protecting your income with income protection is is the the most vital um coverage that anyone can have.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because that that underpins your ability to keep your bills paid if you can't work, and and can even sort of allow you to keep keep borrowing if you if you need to in the future.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: Max, I want to ask you a a common question uh that clients have actually said to me about insurance, or it could be a misconception.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they all they often say, you know, insurance is is very expensive, it's almost like a waste of money, right?
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and I want to I know we're not gonna give advice, you're very heavy regulated industry.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: I understand that.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: But um perhaps if we can explore how the approach or the mindset should be about insurance, because quite often I've I would see that you know clients says, Oh, look, I actually sat down with somebody and the insurance quote came back so so big that I don't want to be spending that, right?
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, is is a more sensible approach perhaps to understand well, what is my budget for spending on insurance?
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: Because if something were to happen to me, I'd rather my wife get something than nothing.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: And and but then also understanding how much coverage or how much exposure there is um and and understanding that to make an informed decision.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, definitely.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_03: So so when I sit with with uh clients, I look at their current um situation and and and as a bare basics, you you would you would want to cover your home loan.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_03: And obviously, then if they've got investment properties beyond that, we can look at sort of uh adding some some of that debt coverage and you could maybe, for example, cover half of that debt.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_03: This is just general advice without covering sort of every single dollar of debt and and and usually you know potentially some money aside for kids' education needs and and etc.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_03: So starting with that in mind, then we'll sort of work out you know what they've they're able to spend on it, and um, and in some cases we can have the funds paid from their super funds, so it's not a an impost on their personal cash flow.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so yeah, generally we find when we sort of take that approach and we're not sort of trying to cover every single dollar of debt if it's not required, um, because don't forget if they've got a portfolio of properties and you cover say maybe half the debt, that that then changes from possibly negative cash flow to positive cash flow, and then they're self-sustaining.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_03: So that's why you don't have to cover every single dollar of debt in some cases.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_03: So just having that approach, uh, we find that we can generally sort of come to to a middle ground where the uh we're giving them the right cover and and it's within their budget.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and sometimes if it's not, then we sort of have to say, okay, well, what's what's the most basic coverage that we we need to have in place?
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_03: And we give them and we start with that, which is coming back to the the home loan as a starting point.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I I think something that I see over overlooked sometimes as well is that a lot of people base the insurance around you know the primary income earner.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: However, like if you know if you've got a family and and one of one of the partners is looking after the kids, if something were to happen to that, that's that's going to affect the primary income earner as well, isn't it?
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_03: So they really need to look at that.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_03: 100%.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_03: So there's a particular um type of of uh coverage, which we call trauma cover, and that covers things like serious illness, like cancer, heart attack, stroke.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_03: So let's say your spouse sort of isn't working, looking after the kids, for example, and um they were to sort of suffer, you know, or be diagnosed with a with a cancer, for example, um, you know, there's gonna be time off time that they need to spend in hospital, right?
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_03: And okay, you're if you've got cover on yourself, you you can't, there's no nothing that you can claim on that's gonna be able to uh allow you to spend time with your you know your partner.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_03: But if they have trauma cover, then that amount of of insurance gets paid out upon the you know the diagnosis of that cancer.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_03: That'll allow you to to uh spend that time uh you know in in hospital, being with your loved one as opposed to stressing about bills and being um at work.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_03: So yes, there is there are ways to negate it by by sort of having the right policies in place.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_03: And that would be one in one example where where that would be um you know a way we could we could um mitigate that risk.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_04: I think it's uh education as well, Max.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_04: I think a lot of people don't even know what the insurance uh insurances are out there, yeah.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_04: You know, TPD, income protection.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_04: So just from a high level, someone that is new to this doesn't understand what insurances are.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_04: What are the typical insurances that you're seeing or you know giving to your clients at the moment?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so so from on a high level, life cover or death cover, they're interchangeable, is based is pretty straightforward.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_03: If you if you pass away, then there's a lump sum that goes to your beneficiaries, you know, typically your spouse or your kids, and and uh and that that that's often used to to repay debts so that um you know the the uh the family home can be kept debt-free and potentially sort of uh some extra debt on top of that.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um then you've got your TPD, which is uh total and permanent disability cover, uh, and that covers a lump sum if you are unable to um uh work ever again in a typically in your job or or any other job based on skills, training, and experience.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_03: So that that would be a lump sum, once again, that you you could utilise towards debt repayments um and and obviously uh you know some medical expenses that that would result um from that scenario and possible modifications of the home.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_03: If you're in a wheelchair, you might need to put ramps in your in your home and things like that, uh rails and what have you.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_03: So that's your TPD, and and they usually they're usually ones that you'll find in in most super funds to various degrees, but uh often um they're only uh you know quite minimal coverage in in those super funds.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um and then you've got your your other lump sum is the trauma cover, which I just talked about, which is uh covering your diagnosis of of serious illness like cancer, heart attack, stroke.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_03: That's typically more um designed to pay for those out-of-pocket medical expenses that would occur, or or like I said, the you know, maybe um having your spouse being able to take that time off work to spend time with you and and covering their loss of income if they've only got a certain amount of you know family leave available, what what have you?
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_04: Just on that one, Max.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_04: For example, uh a cancer diagnosis.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_04: I've heard of clients that they got diagnosed, for example, with lung cancer.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_04: Uh but the insurance uh insurance company said we need a uh letter from the doctor saying this is now terminal.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_03: To is that for uh to get a specific payout or yeah, what's the yeah, so so that okay, you're so you're referring to the what the on the uh life life insurance component, they've got what they call a terminal illness benefit.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_03: So that's if you're if you're diagnosed with that in that scenario where and you've only got sort of a certain amount of time to to to live, sure, what will happen is the insurance company can um pay in advance the death benefit.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_03: So let's say there was a million dollars of cover on the life insurance, and okay, and the you know you've been diagnosed with that particular cancer and it's terminal, the insurance company says, Well, we know that that person's going to eventually pass away.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_03: So rather than sort of waiting until you know 12 months later, they can pay in advance, knowing that that's an eventuality.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_03: So, and obviously then that's money that they can utilize to pay off the debt straight away and and obviously have some time with their family.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_03: That's different to trauma being in trauma that's easy diagnosis.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_03: Correct.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_03: So trauma that if in that scenario, they would they would have received uh let's say they had a couple hundred thousand of trauma cover, for example, they would have received that$200,000 as a uh payout upon the diagnosis of the trauma, so they've got that money up front.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_03: But if it's a terminal and terminal illness like you're talking about in that example, then they would would be paid um the the life insurance component in advance on top of that trauma cover.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_03: So but the life insurance um within super funds don't have trauma, traumas uh you've got to have it as a personal policy only.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: And and is TPD the one where um like total permanent disability where it essentially you've got an injury or something that's permanently going to change your lifestyle, you might need modifications to your home.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: Those sorts of things.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I I had a client who um a few years ago um uh had a sort of basically there was a bit of um without going too much into it, uh he he fell at at home and and the um the medical treatment that that he was received caused a you know caused an uh an issue with him that caused him to be a paraplegic.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm gonna go too much into it, but he ended up being a paraplegic um and he's still in a wheelchair and he got paid a TPD payout from his super, which I helped him with at the time, um, which obviously helped towards some of his um ongoing medical expenses.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_03: So so yeah, that's a T B D type of scenario.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um typically where you can't work again, he was uh you know in a physical type of job and he can't do that anymore.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um and the other the other and the last um uh one which is the most important one is your income protection, which um like I said earlier, it's it's there to cover a certain amount of um of income.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_03: It won't cover all of it, but it'll cover 70% of your income if you are unable to work for a period of time.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um it's more designed for sort of temporary disability.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um so if you if you had a car accident and you can't work for nine months or 12 months or something like that, then it's there to pay that ongoing um income until you're able to get back on your feet and and get back to work.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_04: How does that work for self-employed and PAYG income protection?
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_04: Is there certain nuances in there?
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, well, like at the end of the day, we need to, it's like with anything with when you guys are looking at someone's um sort of uh serviceability for a loan, you need to have proof of income, right?
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_03: So it's the same with with income protection.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_03: If it's if someone's P A Y G, it's pretty straightforward.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_03: We know what they're earning.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um, we can cover 70% of that.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_03: If it's uh someone who's self-employed, we we generally look at say, well, what have you earned the last couple of years?
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_03: If they're fairly new in in self-employment, then we can sort of have an estimate of what they believe they're going to earn and and base it off that.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um and as long as it's sort of uh you know um realistic figures, we can't just make them up.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I want to be short for a million dollars a year.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: I've never earned it, but I think you've got to be it.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because uh at the end of the day, you you know you can't just sort of say, Oh, yeah, I'd like to have twenty thousand dollars a month if of income protection, it doesn't work that way.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, well, what's it based on?
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_04: Sure.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_04: You know, so projections.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_03: That's uh we yeah, we can uh we it's gotta be based on actual uh figures and and um uh and it's gotta be justifiable because you you know if you covered yourself for that twenty thousand dollars and then you only earn a hundred thousand dollars a year, they're they're not even gonna pay it.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_03: So you're paying for something that you're not gonna get the benefit of anyway.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: Now without giving you advice, Max, right, I I'm here that um looking at these kinds of insurances is something better done while you're younger rather than older.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I I believe is this a myth or truth that once you cross certain age milestones, it starts to get really expensive.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's a that's a very good question.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um, Frank, um, and it's good that you've asked that.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_03: So with people's health, obviously we don't know what can happen in the future, right?
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um and I'm I'm of the view that it's always best to get these types of insurances when you're healthy, because that's when it's gonna be the cheapest for you to get.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_03: And when I say that, because if you let's say take the example of someone that might have had a cancer or a heart attack or a stroke at some point in time and they didn't have adequate insurance and they then I've got to get it because I've just seen what I've been through, then unfortunately it's too late to get um cheap coverage.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_03: They're gonna be charged a lot more.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: And you'd be excluded for what you probably needed for.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, they'd be excluded.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_03: Like for example, trauma, well, trauma won't be available at all because it's one of the conditions, so they won't be covered.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and they'll they'll have exclusions um on other policies, or they'll be uh charged extra to be covered for it because you know if you've had a cancer once, then you know you've there's a greater chance that you may have it recurring in the future.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_03: So your life insurance instead of paying the standard rates, you might pay an extra 200% on top of the standard rates or more.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_03: So so that's yeah, so coming back to your question, yes, always best to get it um when you're younger and you're healthy, because that's when you're going to minimize any opportunity for those exclusions to be part of the policy.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: So is the age a critical factor as well, or that's a myth?
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_03: Age comes into it.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, I mean, if obviously the older you are, the more these policies cost because there's a greater chance that something sort of will happen.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, and and at the at the end of the day, um it'll come down to um how much cover do you want at a certain age?
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_03: We're hoping that most people that sort of use our services will will um create enough wealth and and sort of an asset base that they don't need to have as much cover as they get older.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_03: So we can obviously reduce the coverage as someone is building up um a greater level of assets and reducing their debts over time.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, obviously the older you are, um if you'd wanted, you know, if you're you know 60 years old and you wanted three million dollars of life insurance is going to cost a hell of a lot more than than someone who's 30 years old, right?
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: Fair enough.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: And look, on on this podcast and and many others, we we often hear about a lot of success stories, right?
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: But I think on this topic, it's probably important for us to hear a story, um, a real life story if you've got one, um, of where something might have gone wrong and how does how did insurance actually play a role in in that scenario?
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um there's a couple of uh examples that I I I can recall.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_03: Uh one um in 2014, I had a 41-year-old um uh high-income earner, married two young kids, and he was the main income earner in the family and um diagnosed with a rare form of lung cancer.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_03: Now, this gentleman, if you looked at him, he was a very fit um uh person, um, you know, did did exercise regularly, um you know, healthy weight range.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you if you looked at at this man, there was no way that you would think that uh something like that would happen to him.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um and never smoked in his life, so it's a some kind of rare form of lung cancer that just turned up out of the blue.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um he got paid income protection at the time, so that was uh you know a decent amount because of his income.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_03: He was getting around uh$20,000 a month.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_03: Um and on top of that, he had trauma cover for I think it was around$250 odd,000, which he got paid out at the time, which helped with some of his uh medical expenses.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um and then on top of that, um yeah, three and unfortunately, three and a half years later he passed away from the cancer and his wife uh received the life insurance uh payout, which helped uh her with uh uh obviously paying off the home loan and and some other debts that they had.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_03: So we couldn't obviously um do anything from from the emotional point of view to to to help her pain, but um definitely financially that made a massive difference to her and her family, and um and she thanked me uh for that um you know, after the dust had settled and um a few weeks later.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, it was um you know, i they're they're the kind of success stories where you know you're not success in terms of building wealth, but you've you know that you've done the right thing by that family and they're um they're gonna be forever grateful because you know that that family was was able to keep their home and and the kids were able to continue going to the schools they were at and all of that.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_03: So um that comes with it.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_03: So um, and at least they they were yeah, they they had a good life for for the for the kids going forward and and the wife could could spend the time with the kids rather than having to maybe go and get a job and go to work when the kids have just lost their father.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_03: So so that yeah, that's one example.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um and another more one more recent where another gentleman he was 49 um had his own uh business, he was a managing director of his company and he had a uh uh a brain uh cancer that that turned up out of the blue.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um and uh similarly he got paid uh income protection um during the time that he was unable to sort of work anymore.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um and uh yeah, but with the and then also got his uh uh TPD payer because he was totally impermanently disabled, unable to work.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_03: And then when he passed, he um he got the uh the life insurance as well.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_03: So well not him, his his wife, so and the trauma as well.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_03: So he there was all all the different sort of payments that went along the way, and you know, we're talking about some millions of dollars there.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_03: So once again it made a big difference uh to that family um in terms of um you know, he had a a spouse and young young daughters, um, which obviously they provided for them going forward.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, it's they're they're the kind of stories that you know you you don't want to hear about, but they um it these things do happen and and um and and obviously the families are forever grateful that that we set up those policies and we had those conversations when we did at the time.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you know, Max, it just occurred to me that you know a lot of us look for purpose in what we do, yeah.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: And quite often for you, like that purpose comes in the form of something a bit bittersweet, right?
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_03: Well, my purpose is to help people, it's always it always has been, and um, and that's one way I can help people and help families.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_03: You know, the the last thing that I want is I I'd rather a family um lose their their um mortgage rather than lose their home.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and that's uh and that's what these these um insurances can do for to for families and and just provide that extra level of comfort that um like I said, I can't I can't ease the financial the the the emotional pain, but I can ease the f the financial burden on that family to go forward.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_04: And have you seen you know, that's uh I guess bad with the you know semi-good in the sense that is there's not more stress to it.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_04: But I assume you've seen maybe horror stories where things like that have happened and families don't have any insurances and have maybe come to you after and said, you know, can I can I get an insurance now?
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_04: And it's you know it's it's too late.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_04: Have you seen stories of that or heard of that?
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_04: Is that a common thing that you see?
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I I I I have had clients, uh it hasn't doesn't happen often, but where they, you know, oh my um, you know, uh my husband or my wife's been diagnosed with cancer.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_03: Is there any insurance that I'm sorry, you've it's uh one when you've got that, there's no one's gonna no one's gonna look at you.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_03: So it's just a matter of okay, well, I'll I'll I I'll get them to check what they've got in their current super and say, well, you've got something there.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_03: It may not be um as as much as what you need, but it's something there that you might be able to claim on at some point in time.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_03: So um, but yeah, once that once something happens like that, it's too late.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: And in that situation, like the only optional work you can do at that point really is to try to triage the the loss, financial losses, right?
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_03: Correct, yeah, correct.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we can yeah, look, let's look at what you've got in place, what what funds you've got, what super, um, because obviously if someone's pass passing, you know, you know, there's a terminal illness, they can claim on their super balance plus whatever insurance they may have.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_03: So that that can potentially depend depending on the super balance, might be enough to at least cover their home loan or come close to covering the home loan, so um, which is which is better than nothing.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but yeah, it's uh one we can only sort of work with what we've got um and hopefully sort of there's enough there to to cover at least the home loan, so they've got it got a roof over their head.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_03: But if it's if there's if there's a minimal super balance and no insurance, it's it's unfortunately sometimes they they don't have a choice but to sell the family home.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_04: So that's the I guess some of those outcomes from you know not being adequately insured.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_04: So if someone's listening to this, they have no idea about insurance.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_04: I know you can't give that advice, but just general advice in the sense of do you recommend someone at a certain age start looking at their insurance as you know as soon as they're 18?
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_04: What's the minimum they should have?
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_04: You know, should it be income protection, should it be all these things?
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_04: And then also I think there's needs to be some education.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_04: Some clients don't know that majority of this is paid in your super fund, what's not what's not able to be paid in the super fund, what's outside of that?
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_04: Because a lot of people go, I don't want to pay that and I can't afford that.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_04: And they go, well, that can actually be paid by your super fund.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_04: So I guess going all the way back to okay, how do I get adequately insured right now?
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so it's a great question, Aaron.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_03: So let's say you're um typically a younger person that may be just focusing on wealth creation, you know, they might have bought one or two properties, for example, um, but they don't have a spouse or kids or anything like that.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_03: But but income protection for them would be would be something that's vitally important because they're they're taking on debt.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um, obviously, you know, as young as 18, would you recommend if they're building wealth?
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_03: Could be, yeah, if if if they're starting to invest, yeah, absolutely.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_03: They could stay, we can start from 18.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_03: But typically, obviously, you don't get many.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that you might have seen the occasional one, but there wouldn't be probably many 18-year-olds that are buying um sort of investment properties.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, whoever at any age when they're starting their investment journey, uh, they should be considering income protection as as a bare minimum.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um, we can consider trauma insurance or they're unlikely, but it it's still worth considering for for someone of that age.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and typically, sort of as someone then goes through the journey of life, they meet a partner, they they get married, or will you know, de facto, whatever the case might be, uh, and have kids, etc., then that that's definitely another point where where we should consider sort of okay, now you've you've got more commitments, you've got apart from any debts that you may have, you've got um children and etc.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_03: to worry about.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_03: So that's where the life and TPD sort of is is more relevant for those sort of clients.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and then we we have those conversations about sort of making sure that, yeah, obviously within their budget, what can we cover through super, which is typically your your life cover, your TPD.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um now, when we say TPD, there's what they call the any occupation TPD within super, which is based on you being unable to do any other job based on your skills, training, and experience.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_03: For for some clients that are sort of you know high-income earners or professionals or in the medical field, we'll then add an own occupation TPD outside of Super, and that then covers them specifically if they can't do their own job anymore, even though they might be able to do something else in the future, they still get a lump sum payout in that scenario.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_03: So that we can't hold inside super, it's got to be outside.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_03: But life and TPD, any occupation within super, we can do income protection inside super can be done as well.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um, although if you've got the funds to pay outside, it's more tax effective because you get a tax deduction on the on the uh the premiums and obviously get some money back at tax time.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_03: But but if we have to, we can include it in super.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_03: So so we can include most of the coverages within super and and and and a minimal outside of super if if need be.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_04: And I think you know, in terms of these insurances, some people they don't even know where to go.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_04: They might just go to Google insurance.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, but they can actually come to yourself and get that review, is that correct?
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so so with that, obviously Google, you you don't know what you're getting.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, you you could be getting a good policy or maybe not so good policy.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um, coming to someone like myself um that specializes in this area, we can look at the market for you and make sure that um, well, first obviously, firstly, review what you've currently got in place, if if anything, some people don't have anything in place, but having a look at what you currently have in place, um, potentially what's in your super, and then look at other options that could be better than uh in comparison to what you currently have, not just in terms of price, but also in terms of the quality and definitions on the policy and then obviously looking at the cover that they may require and looking at some options and some pricing around that.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_03: So, yeah.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: Just on that point, um, you know, Googling or or whatever, all this comparison websites, just want to talk uh about the point of difference there.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: And correct me if I'm wrong, but a lot of those kind of online providers are actually not authorized to give advice on whether that level of coverage is enough.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's how much cover do you want?
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: Is that and this is how much it costs.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas you're gonna actually explore, well, look, you've got a home loan, you've got this investment problem, your kids are going to school, and you're actually assessing how much you actually need.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_03: Now, spot on Frank.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_03: So you're right.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_03: That so that these um types of online websites say just uh asking you what how much do you want to be covered for, and you might think, okay, I'll just need a certain amount to cover the home loan, not factoring in that okay, there's there's ongoing school fees, or you've got some investment properties which are negatively geared, which can still impact on the the uh the cash flow of the family.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um so there's so the the point of difference is that I'm actually working with the clients to um provide the right level of cover that they need, not just an amount that they believe that they they should have.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and and then from that also factoring in any health conditions that they may already have, pre-existing.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um, one of the big things that I do is um I ask up front, you know, do you have any pre-existing health conditions that would preclude you from getting sort of in any of these policies from any provider?
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_03: And and once I get that information, I can I can do what we call a pre-assessment on that person's um health history.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_03: And and so that way before we even apply for a policy, we've got an idea, okay, in the market from all the feedback we've been getting, you'll have a knee exclusion or a back exclusion or a or a cancer exclusion or whatever it might be.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_03: So so we we we're going in with our eyes open as to what's available and what's uh on offer, uh, and that way um we when we apply, we know what we're gonna get up front without sort of uh a surprise factor at the end.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um whereas a lot of these online um providers, you you're not gonna get that extra service that we do, and we don't charge for that.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think it's not just about the the pricing, you're not necessarily just finding the cheapest insurance around and and also matching that with the level, but um you also look for uh from what I'm hearing, the the insurer that's actually gonna be easier to claim or more likely to make the claims process um simpler.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly, yeah.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_03: And that's that's uh another big factor is um you know which which of the companies are easier to deal with, and and yeah, at the end of the day, there they've all got a claims process and it's all got to be followed and and it has to be a legitimate claim.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, you you sort of get to know which which providers um are better from an admin point of view compared to some of the others, and and if it's the price is similar, then you might lean towards one over the other.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_03: So um definitely comes into play.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_04: And just as we close, Max, you know, we get clients coming to Frank and I trying to build a portfolio, and we we go, Oh, why'd you set it up like that?
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_04: You know, you see probably the same thing.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_04: What are the top three things that you see when people come to you to get insurance that maybe they've done by themselves that they've just done completely wrong?
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_04: And you'd said, Well, why have you done it like that?
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_03: Uh well, the first one would be just being underinsured.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_03: You know, they they just thought, Oh yeah, I I I've got an amount in mind, or or my my neighbor got this amount of insurance, and I thought I did the same.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_03: So without factoring in and looking at all the um The barbecue advice that's exactly the taxi driver that's right with the barbecue advice, yeah.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_03: So so that's the first thing is okay, that they um they tend to be underinsured.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um the second thing is they um they may have got uh sort of an income protection through their super, um, which maybe only have a two-year benefit period, for example, which only means it only covers you for up to two years if anything happens and you can't work for longer term.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_03: So when whereas we've got policies that go up to five years or even up to age 65, so you've got obviously more coverage if something happens for the longer term.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and that obviously can um come into play when if someone is unable to work again ever and they've got that longer term income from the income protection, even you guys can potentially get them a loan because of that guarantee of that income stream being paid.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_03: So that's something that that that is a a big mistake in many cases.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and and obviously the third one is okay, they insure themselves but not their spouse.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_03: So how many times you on purpose or just uh yeah, and it typically typically the blokes that do it that I get I've got I yeah, I've got the insurance.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_03: So my wife's okay, yeah.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_03: But what what happens?
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_03: You've got you know two or three young children, um your wife's currently sort of at home looking after them, and what if something happens to her?
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_03: How are you gonna look after them?
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_03: You know, if if she's got no insurance.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_03: So you'd be surprised how many people and then oh, I didn't think of that.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so then we uh we we obviously address that issue as well.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, it's uh so they're probably the top three.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: Now, before we close, Max, there's something I actually wanted to ask you about.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_01: There's something I think you're really, really passionate about, and it's kind of in line with you know, at K Child, we always talk about contributing to your life, right?
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: And you you're a very um, you know, um vocal supporter of a charity.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, do you want to tell us about that?
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um, there's a charity that I uh strongly believe in.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um, they're called Swag Family Sydney.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_03: The the main uh person that looks after the charity or runs it is is uh an amazing gentleman called Rick Herrera.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um without any government funding whatsoever, it's just all crowdsourced.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_03: So basically people, individuals like myself, whoever or whoever they they um they get uh donations from that that help them out and they they focus on feeding the homeless.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_03: So they they do every Sunday they do a um a dinner in the city and they feed hundreds of people.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_03: And he's often I've seen videos where he's cooking at home himself, um, you know, different meals and and then other people help out as well.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_03: So they they do that's that's a large aspect, and they take you know sleeping bags to to the homeless, and um you know, especially during winter, it gets very cold, as you can imagine.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_03: And imagine we're at home and it's still cold and these people have nowhere to sleep.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_03: So that's a big part of what they do.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_03: And the other aspect, which is unfortunately getting worse and worse, is um they they help a lot of women going through domestic violence.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and and some of these women, unfortunately, are sleeping in cars or sleeping on trains with young babies, young kids.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and he and he looks at sort of putting them into um emergency accommodation, typically motels with some extra funds for for uh food and nappies and and baby formula things like that, um, whilst they try and get them into a uh a woman's shelter, which unfortunately there's not um many um spaces in those women's shelter these days.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_03: So he's he does that.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um and he's he he gets hundreds of phone calls most days and sometimes even like two or three in the morning.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_03: He he he's saved many lives where people are sort of at the um the cusp of like giving up and and just by him being there and listening and um and and and uh talking them through what they're going through, that he's he's been able to save quite a few lives as well.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_03: So um very strong believer um that what this man is doing is is doing good for for people out there and for the most vulnerable in our society.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, I do recommend if you do um want to check out his website, Swag Family Sydney, um, and and as much as possible, uh if you can put in even a regular uh donation, it doesn't have to be much.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_03: $20,$30 a month goes a long way.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_03: If everyone did that, um that there'd be a lot more people being helped because there's just not enough funds to go around.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, thank you, Max.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_04: Thanks for sharing that because that's very impactful.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_04: And and Rick came and spoke at KHI.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, that I think that's we talk about building wealth, saving wealth, and then you hear stories like that, and it just brings it all back to why we do what we do, and that's contributing to people's life and and and really helping people, but understanding that we are just so lucky in where we live and what we do, uh, and we have nothing to be stressed about.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_04: So, Max, thank you for coming today.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you for sharing your insights, your knowledge, uh, your experience uh in insurance and the impact that you have on people's lives.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_04: So, thank you, thank you so much, and we'll continue to eat pineapple and pizza.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_03: Anytime hour space, thank you guys, really appreciate it.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_04: Cheers, thank you.