Latest / Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald / The Reality Show War with Carole Radziwill

Transcript

The Reality Show War with Carole Radziwill · Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Looking for a getaway that's truly special? Ireland's Blue Book
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  Speaker 1: your next luxury escape.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: Heather MacDonald. Has got the Juicy Scoop.
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: When you're on the road, when you're on the go.
• 0:30
  Speaker 4: Juicy Scoop is the show to know.
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: She talks Hollywood tales, her real life, Mr. Saving Serial Data,
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: and Serial Sisters.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: You'll be addicted.
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: And addicted fast to the number one tabloid real life podcast.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: Listen in, listen up. Woo, woo. Hannah McDonald. Juicy Scoop.
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  Speaker 4: Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop straight from New York.
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  Speaker 4: I'm with my friend, the one, the only former Real
• 0:58
  Speaker 4: Housewife New York person.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: What do we call him?
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  Speaker 4: Carol Radswell. Thank you for coming back. We've been friends
• 1:07
  Speaker 4: for a while. You've been on Juicy Scoop before.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: This might've been my first podcast. Thank you. Like way
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: back when.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, we did it in LA at that other spot.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:18
  Speaker 4: And now we found a great little place to record today.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: Thank you. I haven't done a podcast in years, so
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  Speaker 2: I'm super rusty.
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  Speaker 4: Well, that's why I'm glad you're here.
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  Speaker 2: Okay.
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  Speaker 4: I don't like it when people are doing like 10
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  Speaker 4: a day.
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  Speaker 2: Like, I want you raw. Okay, well, I'm raw. I
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: just got off a flight from Europe, so... Oh, good.
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  Speaker 4: You look great. Beautiful as always. Stylish and fun.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, thank you.
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  Speaker 4: And I just recorded... Watch What Happens Live, which aired
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  Speaker 4: on Tuesday night.
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  Speaker 2: Who was the guest?
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  Speaker 4: Because we did it in the afternoon because I think
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  Speaker 4: he was like stacking up a few.
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  Speaker 2: They did. It's like Watch What Happened recorded. Well, I mean,
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: you know, it's summer. I'm assuming we should do that.
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  Speaker 2: There's a show on ABC called Primetime Live.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: And it was live for like a month. And then
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  Speaker 2: it was like, fuck this. Well, yeah. And then it's summer.
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  Speaker 4: I'm like, I'm sure he wants to get out to
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  Speaker 4: the Hamptons. Of course.
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  Speaker 5: No.
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  Speaker 4: So I had not been on. I've been on Watch
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  Speaker 4: for Home's Life once before.
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  Speaker 2: Right.
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  Speaker 4: Which was I someone looked it up for me because
• 2:13
  Speaker 4: I had no I was like it was May 2012.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: And I was on with Tamara. And throughout the years,
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  Speaker 4: I've had like another book come out. I've had two
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  Speaker 4: specials come out. I've had, of course, a podcast for
• 2:27
  Speaker 4: eight years. I've been out here. I've had numerous people
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: pitch me. Finally, they said yes.
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  Speaker 2: That's so strange. I would think you would be like
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  Speaker 2: almost like a regular person.
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  Speaker 4: Like, I mean, nobody knows this stuff better than me,
• 2:42
  Speaker 4: but I, but I look, I'm happy to be back.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, you should be on the Bravo payroll.
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  Speaker 4: I do it.
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  Speaker 2: You're like on the marketer. You're like, you know what?
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  Speaker 4: Listen, I love it.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: I love analyzing. I love talking about it.
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  Speaker 4: So for me, it's all very pleasurable and fun.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: Do you still do Ramona? Of course I do Ramona.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: You know what?
• 3:00
  Speaker 4: I did her in the first, okay. Now, now it's
• 3:04
  Speaker 4: been two days. I haven't seen it yet.
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  Speaker 2: I think I did okay.
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  Speaker 4: To be totally honest, it wasn't like my favorite performance
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  Speaker 4: of my life. And I was like so kind of
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: leading up to it. What am I going to wear?
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  Speaker 2: Da-da-da-da. Right.
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  Speaker 4: I was with Jeff Lewis, who's a good friend of mine.
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  Speaker 4: So that made it really fun.
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  Speaker 2: He's on it all the time.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Like you should be like the female Jeff Lewis. Like
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  Speaker 2: just come to you.
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  Speaker 4: I'm happy to come back whenever. Like everyone was super nice.
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  Speaker 4: Andy was really nice. I brought him a Barbie. I'm
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  Speaker 4: an Andy Barbie.
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  Speaker 2: You were the original. I know. Did you bring my Barbie? No,
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  Speaker 2: I didn't bring your Barbie.
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  Speaker 4: Sorry. But I brought the one that I used for Andy.
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  Speaker 4: And I've like colored his hair gray with a marker,
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  Speaker 4: a match marker. And then I had two, a boy,
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  Speaker 4: little boy, and a little girl.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, right.
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  Speaker 4: And I colored their hair brown. And I made him
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  Speaker 4: a little thing.
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  Speaker 2: And I gave it to him in the green room.
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  Speaker 4: I didn't want to walk out there and like waste
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  Speaker 4: the time on a stupid Barbie. And he was very
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  Speaker 4: sweet about it. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Totally fun.
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  Speaker 4: He was completely nice. And I, we had fun, but
• 4:07
  Speaker 4: like the first joke. So we talked about real housewives
• 4:10
  Speaker 4: of New York. Okay. And he's like, what do you think?
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  Speaker 4: Like right before we start, cause I knew they were
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  Speaker 4: going to ask you about it. And I go, can
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  Speaker 4: I like give advice of what I think it should be?
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  Speaker 4: And can I bring up old real housewives of New
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  Speaker 4: York people? And he's like, yeah, do whatever you want.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. So when I watched the, have you watched any
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  Speaker 2: of it? No.
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  Speaker 4: So when I watched the latest episode, um, I'm interviewing
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: Erin tomorrow, which you guys will hear next week.
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  Speaker 2: She's one of the girls.
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  Speaker 4: I like her a lot. She's a very nice, normal person.
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  Speaker 4: And hopefully I'll get to know her better. But I
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  Speaker 4: do feel it's a little slow, the show.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, the show is.
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  Speaker 4: The show is a little, you know, I mean, I
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: think all it's like the. Nobody's annoying or anything. All
• 4:58
  Speaker 4: the girls are like pretty cool and likable. But yes,
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: it's going to take us, I.
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  Speaker 2: Think, a minute. But if you recall season five, which
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: is the first season I was on, they blew up
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  Speaker 2: the show in season four. I don't know. For some reason.
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  Speaker 4: When they got rid of Jill.
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  Speaker 2: Jill, who was great. And Kelly. Kelly.
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  Speaker 4: And then also Alex McCord.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: Yes.
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  Speaker 2: And it was really slow. And the ratings weren't even
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  Speaker 2: that great because the audience really is connected to the
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  Speaker 2: old cast. And I think there's a little of that
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  Speaker 2: maybe going on now, but it takes a minute.
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  Speaker 4: It takes a minute. They're all like smart and pretty
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  Speaker 4: and stylish and And the first episode I really liked
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  Speaker 4: because we got to see their apartments and I liked
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  Speaker 4: their style.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: And I just love watching anything that's.
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  Speaker 2: Filmed in New York. Are any of them married? With kids?
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  Speaker 4: Well, what happened was it was a little rough start
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  Speaker 4: because this one cast member ended up leaving. Oh, yeah.
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  Speaker 2: And... You mean like in the middle of the season? Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: like within.
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  Speaker 4: Like two seasons?
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  Speaker 2: I only did that last season. No, I don't think
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  Speaker 2: that far along, but like... So.
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  Speaker 4: They had to like shoot, I mean, they had to
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  Speaker 4: edit around the fact that they probably had a lot
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  Speaker 4: of initial meetings when this woman was there.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, so they edited her out of the show. Yes.
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  Speaker 2: And I think.
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  Speaker 4: In putting it together post like that, there is a
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  Speaker 4: little bit like, I'm like, wait, is this girl married?
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  Speaker 4: Is this one still single? Like I'm kind of like,
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  Speaker 4: but anyway, so my suggestion was, so one girl had
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  Speaker 4: something at the Hamptons. That's Erin. She had hosted everyone
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  Speaker 4: at the Hamptons and everyone said the place was cold
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  Speaker 4: and she didn't have any food.
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  Speaker 2: Was it her Hamptons house? Yes. Okay. Not like an Airbnb.
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  Speaker 4: So what I wanted to say to Andy, like was to,
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  Speaker 4: was to be like, Dorinda needs to tell her how
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  Speaker 4: to work a thermometer, like the thermostat.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, how to work the thermostat, get it warm
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  Speaker 2: or whatever.
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  Speaker 4: Then this other girl is real flirty. Her name's Brynn.
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  Speaker 4: And I'm like, Luann needs to come and help.
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  Speaker 2: Her work with, you know, how to be a flirt.
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  Speaker 4: Because she's flirting with the chef and she's flirting with
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  Speaker 4: the da-da-da. She's flirting with, you know, the guys teaching
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: them to work out. Literally the exact same stuff we
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  Speaker 4: saw with Luann.
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  Speaker 2: And they studied it.
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  Speaker 4: They had a workout at the Hamptons with a hot guy.
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  Speaker 4: And so she, or the other girl flirted with him.
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  Speaker 2: I don't know. They were all flirting.
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  Speaker 4: And then they have, and then I go, and then
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  Speaker 4: this other one hasn't had sex with her husband since
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  Speaker 4: her twins were born. And so everyone's like, you need,
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  Speaker 4: you and your husband need to go off by themselves.
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  Speaker 2: The twins are like a little over one. So yeah.
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  Speaker 4: So it's been over a year and she reveals that.
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  Speaker 4: And the husband is like, Well, we're busy. Like he
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  Speaker 4: wasn't even like, I know. So glad those chicks are
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: saying something. So I'm like, what they need to do
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: is then have Ramona take her to the exact same hotel.
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  Speaker 2: You're so right.
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  Speaker 4: The exact same hotel that she did that horrible cringy
• 7:56
  Speaker 4: scene with Mario.
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  Speaker 2: Do you remember? I know.
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  Speaker 4: She's like, you are hot and sexy. She's like crawling
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  Speaker 4: on him.
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  Speaker 2: I wasn't on the show then.
• 8:04
  Speaker 4: So I kind of wanted to like, so I'm like,
• 8:06
  Speaker 4: I'm just going to get right to the Ramona part
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  Speaker 4: of it. But it kind of like bombed. Like he
• 8:11
  Speaker 4: looked at me like, and I didn't do it really well.
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  Speaker 2: And I got kind of nervous.
• 8:14
  Speaker 4: But I get, I mean, so that, that joke kind
• 8:17
  Speaker 4: of bombed. But then I had two other moments that
• 8:19
  Speaker 4: were good where he asked me about Kyle. That might
• 8:21
  Speaker 4: have been the after show. Kyle is dating. We think
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: she acted like she was dating this woman. Okay. I,
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: from the beginning have gone back and forth. I'm like,
• 8:31
  Speaker 4: I think she dropped crumbs. Yeah.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: Is this our storyline on the show? It's going to
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: be the storyline on the show.
• 8:37
  Speaker 4: But one thing I'm so glad I said was a
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: couple of weeks ago when this first came out or
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: three weeks, I said, I believe she'll have some type
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: of financial interest in this girl's career. Well, lo and behold,
• 8:51
  Speaker 4: last week, She is producing and filming a documentary for her,
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: Morgan Wade. And she's also featured in her music video
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: as her love interest.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: Kyle's love interest?
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: Kyle is, yes.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's hot. That's fun. But she's still married.
• 9:07
  Speaker 4: She's still married, but now I'm like, so I said
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  Speaker 4: that to Andy.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, I said that to Andy.
• 9:12
  Speaker 4: I go, I still don't know if they're messing around,
• 9:15
  Speaker 4: if lesbianism is a side effect of Ozempic.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: So I think I had like a couple funny moments.
• 9:23
  Speaker 4: I had a couple funny moments. It's like the audience
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: is so small.
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 9:27
  Speaker 4: And I just came off of doing like five shows
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: where it was like, you know, almost 400 people a night.
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  Speaker 4: So to hear just like a weird chuckle.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: I just kind of... Yeah, yeah. You can't get your vibe.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: I think it'll be... Hopefully it was fine.
• 9:39
  Speaker 4: Hopefully it was fine and people have watched it by
• 9:41
  Speaker 4: now and hopefully they'll ask me back. Everyone's very nice
• 9:44
  Speaker 4: that works there and everything.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: I mean, they should ask. You should be like a regular.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: You have such good takes on it and you really
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: know the characters. Yeah. Like I would trust whatever you
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: think about the Kyle storyline or whatever. or any of
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: these Newbies.
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so he asked me like.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: I don't like to call them newbies, whatever.
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: He was like, do you think Candy brought up this
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: girl on Girl Kiss because she's doing a movie that
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: involves the girl on Girl Kiss? I go, yeah, I do.
• 10:11
  Speaker 4: Who cares what I do?
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  Speaker 2: And it was also your life. That is like always
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: a narrative about... In every franchise and every season. Lesbianism? Yeah,
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: there's always like... Like making out. It's always making out
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: because it's provocative. It gets the camera time. It gets attention.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 6: It makes.
• 10:29
  Speaker 4: I kind of think it's played out a little bit.
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  Speaker 2: Yes.
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  Speaker 4: So there is an actual real-life lesbian.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: Well, Jenna Lyons... Yes, she's a real lesbian. I know her.
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: There's a lot of girls who are not real lesbians. Like,
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: now this girl is like, I'm a real lesbian.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: I'm in a relationship. Yeah.
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: And I feel like there is these moments where some
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: of the girls are sort of flirty with her. Like, ooh,
• 10:50
  Speaker 4: do you like what I'm wearing, Jenna? You know?
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's not cool. No, I think it feels weird.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: I mean, I have.
• 10:56
  Speaker 4: I have two very good friends that are lesbians, Fortune
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: Fuster and Julie. And never, ever have I like flirted.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: With them like that.
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: Like I think it's just weird. That's like lesbian television.
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: It's lesbian light.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, everyone I think on the older cast,
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: I remember like this was like seasons or even before me,
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: they were all making out with Sonia. That was like
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: the New York thing. You know, if you didn't make
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: out with Sonia, were you really even a New York housewife?
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: I mean, I never did. Like everyone took a turn. Yeah. Yeah.
• 11:30
  Speaker 4: And I said to Annie, too, I go, I think
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: this is on the show. I just said, can we
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: just get more guys in there so they don't have
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: to make out with each other?
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, the whole thing.
• 11:40
  Speaker 4: Also, they have the first night of the slumber party.
• 11:43
  Speaker 4: jenna brings lingerie for everybody everybody's supposed to wear lingerie
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: but jenna never gets in it and this other girl
• 11:48
  Speaker 4: hates her lingerie and i.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: Was just like uh-oh it just.
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: I'm like never in my life have i been on
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: a girl's trip where we're like you know what would
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: be really fun you guys if we all wear you
• 11:59
  Speaker 4: know bondage lingerie outfits like never no would that happen
• 12:04
  Speaker 4: and it just feels very like those kind of things
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: i'm like.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: Maybe it'll just get it just needs to get its
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: groove Yeah.
• 12:11
  Speaker 4: I'll never, I'll never not watch it. Cause at least
• 12:15
  Speaker 4: it's like, at least it's shot in New York.
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: And I like that.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: And I, and Jenna has a great apartment. Oh yeah.
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: She's a great apartment. Great clothes.
• 12:25
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: I ran into her recently.
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: She was in the middle of her confessional interviews. Like
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: they go on for a really long time after you
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: stopped filming. And then they bring it up.
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: Then they make you, they go like, so- Like, remember
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: five months ago, so-and-so said.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: This, and you're like, no. Well, and they ask you
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: the question over and over and over again until they
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: get some answer that feels, you know, provocative. But so
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: I think she had just come from one when I
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: saw her at dinner.
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: Did you ever do, when you were doing that, did
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: you ever just go, just tell me what you want
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: me to say?
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: So I can get the fuck out of here.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the last- Not in the beginning seasons, but definitely
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: in the last season. I was just, season 10, whatever
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: that was.
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: What do you want me to say, Barry? Right. You know,
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: like this, because they ask the same question 10 different ways.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: And it's just like, and it's really six months earlier.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: And you have no recollection or like, and you know,
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: you may, you should be upset about something, some slight, some,
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: but you don't really give a shit. Were there moments
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: when you.
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: me doing this confessionals and you're like, now I know
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: why someone confesses to murder just to get out of
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: the room.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: It's like, it's like force.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: It's a force confession. You're just like, well, if I
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: say what you want me to, if you, if I
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: say that.
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: I killed him, then can I just go lay down?
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: Can I just get out of this tidy room?
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, they go on for hours, hours and hours,
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: you know, between the hair and makeup and the, it's
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: like three or four hours. And you're just like, It's like,
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: you know, waterboarding.
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: I don't remember.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: I have no memory of, you know, but I'm sure
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: she was a bitch. So speaking of.
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: That, what do you think about the letter that has
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: come from two attorneys? It's not a lawsuit.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: No, I know.
• 14:14
  Speaker 4: And it's about, you know, should, and then the talk
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: of like making a union or just, I mean, the letter.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: Well, I am pro-union. Yes. And so I think, generally speaking,
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: there is a labor movement in this country that started
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: probably around the pandemic. I mean, you see an ad
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: Amazon and Starbucks and people unionizing. I've always said well
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: before it was trending or cool or, or safer to
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: say that, um, specifically with reality, those contracts that, that
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: are signed are, you know, they're legal, you know, like
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: ironclad legally, but there's, there's a morality to it that just, um, um,
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: is not, um, is exploitive. Um, and, and people can say,
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: you know what you're getting into, like, but you, you
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: don't really, it's just like anything. You really don't know
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: what you're getting into until you're in it. And, um, yeah,
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think I always thought that they should,
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: I always thought that they, that there's room for discussion
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: with SAG or AFTRA or whatever it would be to
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: form a union because, um, Reality, it's not like when
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: Ramona and Luann and Jill started season one. It's a
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: huge business, billion dollar business, and the talent is not paid.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: There's no provisions. There's no provisions for their safety. We
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: ran into a really tight spot when we were in Cartagena. Oh,
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: on the boat. Yes. And there's no provisions for, there's
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: no like break time. There's nothing. It's just like unregulated labor.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: And so sure, there's definitely room for talks about organizing that.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: There's no residuals. I mean, I was just in Europe.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: So many people came up to me, like a woman
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: from Kuwait. She's like, I watch your show. I mean,
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: it's on playing 24 seven and the network is making
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: a lot of money selling it again and again, again,
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: to advertisers, to streamers. And And we get paid, you know,
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: we didn't get paid a lot of money at all,
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: you know, compared to scripted. And so, yeah, there is
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: certainly I'm pro union. And I've always said that I've always,
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: you know, I think early on, I used to say
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: that no one like exploits talent and mental illness and
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: addiction and alcoholism for entertainment better than Bravo. And I
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: know Bravo used to hate when I said that, but
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: it's it's. It is exploitive. It's exploitive. And, you know,
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: I think in the end of the day, it benefits
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: everyone when you're paid a fair wage and when you're
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: treated with respect and when you have, you know, this
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: is a business. Yeah, I mean, it would be... And
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: you can't say it when you're on it. Like, people
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: are like, well, why didn't you say it when you
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: were on it? Well, I'm working for a company, a
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: big corporation, right? I'm signed a contract. It's a job.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: It's like, who... talks about their corporation publicly.
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: But I also think you obviously are going to have
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: a different perspective a few years in than you did
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: the first day, and you're going to have a different perspective.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: Many years after you're not. And also, everybody's experience— But
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: let me just say, I was the first housewife to
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: ever say anything about exploiting talent.
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: I know you did. I think you probably said it
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: on my show, too.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: I've kind of been saying it for a long time.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: It's like slow and steady in my style. I'm not, like,
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: loud and bullying, but I think there's room for improvement
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: with the network and the talent.
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think, like, for Andres, I was
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: just more on her plate right now, but, like, what
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: would have been good is if SAG— like started to
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: think about incorporating them they should.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: Have you know Fran Drescher is Aviva one-legged yes cousin right.
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: And it's interesting it's interesting I just thought of that
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: because one of the so I follow a TikTok account
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: called um celeb fail official I think I don't know
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: who this person is whoever does it he she will
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: call her she does like weird voiceover, so it's no
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: one's voice. And she's used a couple of times that
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: I've talked about Bethany Frakel on my show and put
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: them in her videos.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I've seen it.
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: She is someone who really is about calling Bethany Frankel
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: out on her hypocrisy, whether you.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: Oh my God, that's a full-time job. Yeah, and it
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: is a full-time job. Oh, it is.
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: I mean, the work that this person does, it's amazing.
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: So a lot of times Bethany will post something and
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: then take it down. And this person is able to
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: capture it and then go back and then pick out
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: all the hypocrisy that she's done.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: Well, there's a lot of, it's pathological. Yeah, the gaslighting,
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: the misinformation, the disinformation, the straight-up pathological lying. I mean,
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: I don't know who this person is.
• 19:05
  Speaker 5: But that's insane.
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: I don't know who she is either. But what's amazing is,
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: you know, in... in Bethany's like quest to be, I'm
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: the one that's going to get this happening and I'm
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: the one that can do it. It's like, all she
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: does is talking about I, I, I, I'm, I was
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: the most special housewife. I left and I came back
• 19:24
  Speaker 4: and I was more successful and I did this and
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: I did this and I did this. And I was,
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: I was the first to have a cocktail and I
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: was the first. And she's so pressed.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: You would never. The biggest, the first is like, okay.
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: You would never, but in all anything, time we've seen
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: Fran Drescher talk about, you know, this being like the
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: fight of the life, you know, for the SAG actors.
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: She's never like, I was on the nanny.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: I wasn't.
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: Just the nanny. I created the nanny because she did.
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: I created the nanny. I thought of the nanny. I
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: sat next to this person and got the nanny made.
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: I was the nanny.
• 19:58
  Speaker 4: I was a love interest of the main character as
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: the nanny. Like, it was like, of course she would
• 20:02
  Speaker 4: never say that.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: But she, there's something, and I used to say this,
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: you know, I repeat myself because I've said everything like
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: on the reunions and interviews since. There's something about narcissism
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: that the upside of narcissism is that some people do
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: get help because this is quest to be the hero
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: of your story all the time. So, I mean, I
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: think like Taylor Swift said it best in that, well, anti-hero,
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: one of my family, I'm a Swiftie. And she says,
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: my covert narcissism disguised as altruism. And that's what we're seeing. Right.
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: The narcissism actually as like a savior.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: Yes. It's disguised as altruistic. Yes. But it's just narcissism.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: But that's like the upside because someone might get helped
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: along the way. Right. It's like the be strong. Right.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: And model. Model.
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: And actually the celeb fail brings up the be strong too, which,
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: you know, people always said it's her charity. It's her charity.
• 20:57
  Speaker 4: And it's, she's a fundraiser for global empowerment mission, which
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: is still good. It's still good to raise money.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: I do the same thing for a nonprofit based in Europe. Yeah.
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: So, I mean, she's still fundraising, which is still good,
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: but she definitely hasn't mentioned it. In a while, and
• 21:17
  Speaker 4: she's been, you know, going to the Red Lobster and,
• 21:20
  Speaker 4: you know, Cheesecake Factory or whatever she goes to when
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: she does her middle class cosplay and goes to the
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: 99 cent store and everything.
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: It's like a loop.
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: Like, I'm so glad I'm... Oh my God, I'm so
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: glad I'm away from it.
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: Let me just tell you, the rants that then were deleted.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: Okay, so.
• 21:38
  Speaker 6: Employers, rewarding your staff with vouchers this year? Here's the
• 21:42
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• 21:48
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• 21:52
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• 21:55
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• 21:58
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• 22:03
  Speaker 2: OptionsCard.ie.
• 22:06
  Speaker 5: I'm Darman, and this is What Happens Next. Each week
• 22:09
  Speaker 5: on the show, I sit down with extraordinary people who
• 22:12
  Speaker 5: have faced tremendous setbacks and yet somehow have found a
• 22:17
  Speaker 5: way to turn them into their greatest strengths.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: Life is one long lesson of chaos.
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: I'm heading to the Emmys and I have police complaints
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: filed against me.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: When your free will was about to be taken from you,
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: what would you do if it was given back?
• 22:30
  Speaker 5: Where did that need come from where you thought that
• 22:33
  Speaker 5: you had to succeed in order to feel loved?
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: He said, I have a work dad. I need a
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: home dad. What happens next?
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: When I came in, he started crying.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: Everybody in life encounters hardships.
• 22:43
  Speaker 5: What defines them is not those hard moments that they
• 22:46
  Speaker 5: go through. It's about what happens next.
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: I decided to risk it all. I realized how valuable
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: every day was. You're worth the work. Listen, Dara, I'm
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: not going to pull punches. You can use your voice
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: even if it shakes.
• 22:58
  Speaker 5: The stories are different, but the impact is the same.
• 23:01
  Speaker 5: Only one question matters. What happens next?
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: So at one point, you know, at one point she's
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: like this rant, that latest rant that she was deleted
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: is she says, you know, and I wasn't always like
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: the greatest person. And so she removed that. But then
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: this video shows all the times that she is just
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: like screaming, calling cast members, you know, you've slept with
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: everybody for everything.
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: She's drunk. It's losers. Nobody does it on that podcast. Yes.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: And send me. And she.
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: The latest episode is from August 6th. So she's still
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: watching the, I thought at least she'd.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: Put a pause in that. I mean, she's exploiting the talent.
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: In the rewatch. Yeah, totally. She's exploiting all of us
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: again and again and again for the cash.
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: So I guess a while back Aviva Drescher had made
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: a tweet saying that she, when she was on the show.
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: that she was forced to drink alcohol or something.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, yeah. I think she was with Ramona or something.
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: Bethany, on June 16, 2018, tweeted this. Hello at Aviva
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: Drescher as the person responsible for putting you on Roni.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: Of course.
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: So Bethany put Aviva on.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: It's pathological. It's like so Donald Trump. It's crazy. I know.
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: I take offense to you misrepresenting the truth and saying
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: producers prodded you to drink. As someone here since day
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: one with 13 years of reality TV experience, it is
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: a flat out falsehood. At Bravo TV, at Andy.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: Now, that was 2018.
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: Interesting, because you're right. Aviva Drescher is the cousin of
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: Fran Drescher.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: But that was true. I remember Aviva was, she didn't
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: drink at all. Okay. And there was a scene, I recall,
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: she was upset that they wanted her to drink with Ramona.
• 25:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: And so she was telling the truth.
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah. So Bethany, so Bethany is like, not only is like,
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: she lied, she lied there now that she lied about
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: her lying. And now, you know, anyway, so.
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: So she told, she called Aviva Drescher out as a liar,
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: but now she's actually claiming that they do what Aviva Drescher. Correct. Correct.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: said that they do.
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: Correct.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: So, yeah. So when a great thing about social media
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: and tweeting and all this and all about the receipts,
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: it's just like there's everything is transparent. And if when
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: your story doesn't track and a lot of just generally speaking,
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: a lot of housewives stories just do not track. Yeah.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: And it's just so I mean, if someone takes the
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: time like this TikTok account to really piece it together,
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: it's just It's quite a beautiful thing. I mean, it's really,
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: it's like really amazing.
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: Like all the clips and everything.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: And it is the.
• 26:04
  Speaker 4: Other one where she's like, a lot of people saying
• 26:06
  Speaker 4: that I'm, you think that I'm doing this to stay relevant?
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: Riddle me this.
• 26:12
  Speaker 4: I'm like, riddle me this. You're just like, riddle me this.
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: You think I'm going out and trying on lip glosses
• 26:19
  Speaker 4: and everything for fun?
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, yeah, I do. I mean, you're doing it.
• 26:24
  Speaker 4: So then I'm like, okay, so that's why she took
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: it down because I'm like, oh, wait, you're not doing
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: it for fun?
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: She's doing it for business. You just admitted. It's all business.
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: When you act like I never am getting sponsorships. I'm
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: just letting you guys know that this is the best
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: lipstick and this is the best. She's literally saying, you
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: think I'm... No. Well, so then she realized, okay, I
• 26:44
  Speaker 4: got to delete that one. I'm just imagining like, who's
• 26:46
  Speaker 4: the one running in and going, uh, Bethany, take that down.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: Like maybe she, I mean, I have no boyfriend, the daughter.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: I don't know. She's so like, I didn't realize she
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: was so still so pressed about like exploiting housewives and
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: just talking. And she said, she just a little while ago.
• 27:06
  Speaker 4: Said I would do ultimate girl strip for a million dollars.
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: And this is who I want on it.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 27:12
  Speaker 4: I want herself because she said these are the only
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: people that are raw and messy. They're the kind of
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: housewives I like. They don't care about, you know, looking perfect. They're,
• 27:21
  Speaker 4: you know, imperfect. And the only people that I can
• 27:24
  Speaker 4: say is myself, Teresa, Tamara, and NeNe. That's who she'd
• 27:29
  Speaker 4: have on the thing.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: But now- Nene should be the one leading the charge
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: of trying to- Well, that's where Nene was trying to-
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: Years ago, I think I remember reading something about, she.
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: Had her own personal campaign and lawsuits and all this
• 27:44
  Speaker 4: other stuff against Bravo and trying to say that it
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: wasn't fair.
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: I mean, no one was- There is some truth to it.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think there's room for discussion about how
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: they can treat talent better. Well, of course, financially, emotionally,
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: emotional labor of being a housewife is extraordinary. Like it's,
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: it's very, I don't want to say the word toxic
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: because it gets overused and stuff, but it's the, you know,
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: the emotional labor is, is intense and, uh, and that
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: can be exploitive. And you're dealing with women who, you know,
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: do have some addiction problems or, you know, drink a
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: little too much or just are mentally not, um, balanced. Right.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think most of them, right.
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: I mean, especially now, you know, 15 years later, we
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: know a lot more than we knew 15 years ago.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: And it's a billion dollar business and they're not getting,
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: they're not getting paid 60, the first season, um, Housewives
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: got $ 60, 000 and, and, um, I know they like the
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: season one Roni people. Some of them like to say, oh,
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: we only got paid $ 8, 000 and stuff, but there's only
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: six episodes season one, but at times, and it was unknown,
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: no one knew what it was. So everyone was taking
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: a chance, including the network by season five, it was
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: a bonafide monster hit. And, and we were putting out
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: 18 to 20 episodes and the pay was $ 60, 000. So
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: it wasn't a per episode fee. It was, it was,
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: it wasn't even that much more than that first season,
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: if you put it in context. Um, But, you know,
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: there's definitely room for improvement. And there's definitely, like, the
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: union would benefit, too, to incorporate. I mean, realities, especially
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: now with the strike, the irony is that they're going
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: to depend, networks are going to depend more on reality. Well,
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: here's the thing.
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: She has been clamoring.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: This is just a PR thing, you know? Yes, definitely.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: I mean, those two lawyers feel like it.
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: And they love, they love the press too. And yeah,
• 29:49
  Speaker 4: it gets people talking and.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: And she didn't hire them. They're not, she's not spending money.
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: No, but I kind of feel like her calling out
• 29:56
  Speaker 4: certain Bravo people that are currently on a show. Like, oh,
• 29:59
  Speaker 4: I heard from Paige who's on Summer House. I'm like, well, God,
• 30:03
  Speaker 4: you know, maybe she wanted that to be private. Like,
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: why are you calling her out when she's currently like
• 30:07
  Speaker 4: on a show? And then she's like, everyone should stop working.
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: They should boycott it. They shouldn't go to Bravo. And
• 30:13
  Speaker 4: I'm like, BravoCon. And well, I'm like, nobody is. Nobody is.
• 30:18
  Speaker 4: The Vanderpump kids are not.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: getting popping out of the hip-hoppercy it's like you've made.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: Your millions yeah and now you know you she's probably
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: know she's burned the bridge so she's going nuclear but
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: also she's exploiting still i uh is she she's talking
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: about all the episodes some of which i was on
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: and she does not say uh nice things i mean
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: she's very passive-aggressive in the way that she speaks where
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: it's like a word salad but but i know and
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: i'm like oh i know what she's saying and she's
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: trying to Just be nasty. It's like, why? How? Why?
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: Listen, I'm so happy in my life that I don't
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: have to deal with that anymore.
• 30:59
  Speaker 4: But like, I want to ask you, okay, because so
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: I definitely think anyone that would be entering the game today,
• 31:06
  Speaker 4: like let's say the new girls on Roni. Yeah. They...
• 31:10
  Speaker 4: you know, would really, they really have to look at
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: everything of where this might go. Even if they think
• 31:14
  Speaker 4: they're in a great marriage, even if they think no
• 31:16
  Speaker 4: one's going to find out about this weird thing they
• 31:19
  Speaker 4: did when they were 17, like you got to know,
• 31:22
  Speaker 4: like they're probably will. They're going to know if there's
• 31:24
  Speaker 4: a tax lien, they're going to know, like these people
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: will find out every little thing. So are you willing
• 31:30
  Speaker 4: to do it in the hopes to get a kind
• 31:33
  Speaker 4: of career that you want, which this fame may or
• 31:37
  Speaker 4: may not give you.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: It's a gamble.
• 31:40
  Speaker 4: Just taking, whether there's a union or not, whether you
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: get paid for residuals or not, you're still opening up
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: your life, which is different than being an actor. And
• 31:50
  Speaker 4: what may happen in your.
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: Life will get exposed.
• 31:53
  Speaker 4: You don't know if someone is going to die tomorrow
• 31:56
  Speaker 4: that's in your life. You don't know if you're going
• 31:57
  Speaker 4: to break up with a person, you don't know when
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: you sign up. And so my question is like for you,
• 32:04
  Speaker 4: the show had already been on, there'd been other shows
• 32:07
  Speaker 4: like it, you were approached. I'm sure it didn't occur
• 32:12
  Speaker 4: to you that, you know, 12 years later, you're going
• 32:14
  Speaker 4: to be sitting down talking about it with Heather McDonald
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: and you're going to be in Europe and people are
• 32:19
  Speaker 4: going to be recognizing you. I'm sure that never even, like,
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: where were you when you made the decision of how
• 32:25
  Speaker 4: big or little you thought it could become by you
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: going on the show?
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: I recall I hadn't seen the show because it was
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: season five and it was a big hit, but it
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: wasn't just not, it was not something that was on
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: my radar at all. And I just knew Andy a
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: bit through friends. And I knew... The only thing I
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: knew is he had a talk show. So I thought
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: it was like the talk show and he would interview
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: these people called housewives. But I'd never seen the show
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: and I'd seen his talk show. And he used to
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: do a blog about the talk show or something. And
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: my friend, Karen Duffy, would send me this blog. She goes,
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: this is so funny. You got to read this. And
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: this show, this Watch What Happens Live.
• 33:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: And so... I, so when I did it, I did
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: it because I was, I was, um, I didn't, you know,
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: I know a lot of housewives, they go on and
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: they're like, well, we really, you know, we, you know,
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: we listed the pros and cons and I discussed it
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: with my family, my husband, my pastor, my whatever. And
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I didn't discuss it with anybody. I was
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: just like, I don't know. It seems like a really weird,
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: funny thing to do. And I was kind of at
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: a crossroads. I had written one book. I'd almost finished
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: a second book. I was writing for magazines, Glamour magazine
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: in style, all those, you know, um, And I just thought, A,
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: it would sell books. And I wouldn't really, I made
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: a promise to myself that I wasn't going to do
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: anything that, and I didn't have kids. It was just me.
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: I know, that's what I always, one thing I always.
• 33:48
  Speaker 4: Said to you is that you were, to me, I
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: feel like you, You did benefit from it, and it
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: didn't also tarnish your reputation at all.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: No, it didn't.
• 33:59
  Speaker 4: There's nothing that you did on this show, in my opinion,
• 34:01
  Speaker 4: that I think you should be embarrassed of. There literally isn't.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: No.
• 34:05
  Speaker 4: Even the things that you said, even if they were
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: maybe not the nicest, they weren't cruel.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: No. They were just funny, and they were witty. Yeah. Yeah.
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: But it didn't, it didn't, my reputation, whether I had
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: a reputation or not, I don't think I did, but,
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: but it didn't, people even now come up to me.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: They're not, I'm not like a housewife. They don't, you know,
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: they talk about my books. They ask me about a lot,
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: a lot of young, younger women. They want to know
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: about my, you know, ABC news and all that. So
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: but but it did hurt me like it is to
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: be in an environment like that for six years. And,
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: you know, there's a lot of gaslighting, a lot of
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: pathological lying, a lot of all this misinformation and like
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: mind fuckery. And it does get to you like it.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: You know, so it did hurt. I know just like
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: an emotional mental level. Like I had to like really
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: detox from it. Yeah.
• 35:00
  Speaker 4: Because I remember like the reunion.
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: The last one was terrible.
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: The last reunion was terrible. Was just like.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: I mean, and I was sitting there. Someone recently sent
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: me this rant that I went on. I guess it
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: was about Bethany. I don't recall exactly. But I was like, damn,
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: I went in. Like, I was like....
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: It was like a blog that you wrote or something
• 35:25
  Speaker 4: that you said on the show?
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: No, it was something I was saying on the show.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: And then Andy was reading a blog that I had
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: written about Bethany's behavior in one of the episodes about,
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: you know, how she weaponized her charity and we were
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: all losers.
• 35:37
  Speaker 4: Oh, right. And then she said, oh, like so... Ramona
• 35:41
  Speaker 4: only gave me this much. This person only gave me
• 35:43
  Speaker 4: this much. Your boyfriend at the time wasn't available.
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: It was all weaponized. I gave her $ 5, 000. She never
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: gave me a penny for any charity I ever was
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: supporting on any of the years I was there. Not
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: one penny. But anyway, I was surprised at how strong
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: and direct that I was. And Andy was reading the
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: blogs and was saying a lot of things about, you know,
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: narcissistic behavior. And then there's kind of ways of me saying, yeah,
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: that's true. True. That was true. Like, I was just like,
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: I'm like, who is that girl? Like, I was pretty fierce.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: And then, but it was hard. And then when I left,
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: it was, it was just.
• 36:23
  Speaker 4: Well, what was interesting about the time that you guys
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: were on was it was, there was social media and Instagram,
• 36:29
  Speaker 4: but it wasn't the way it is now. Well, Instagram
• 36:31
  Speaker 4: started the same year.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: I was on. Oh, so people... No, Instagram was nothing
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: when we.
• 36:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it wasn't like people were doing direct videos of
• 36:39
  Speaker 4: after watching it, like, hey, this isn't true, whatever. But
• 36:42
  Speaker 4: they had to.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: Write those blogs. I loved writing the blogs. So for you,
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: they liked it.
• 36:47
  Speaker 4: Other people, you know, I believe, hired someone to do
• 36:49
  Speaker 4: it or their assistant helped or whatever. But then you
• 36:54
  Speaker 4: would be privy to reading the blogs before... Like now,
• 36:59
  Speaker 4: when they do the shows, it's probably why they got
• 37:01
  Speaker 4: rid of the blogs, actually.
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 37:02
  Speaker 4: Now when they do the shows, someone like, let's say
• 37:05
  Speaker 4: the latest season of New York, they're now watching it
• 37:08
  Speaker 4: and be like, oh my God, I can't believe she
• 37:10
  Speaker 4: said that about my house. That's the first that this
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: person is seeing it because they're watching it. Back then,
• 37:17
  Speaker 4: they would see the blogs from the episode before and
• 37:20
  Speaker 4: be like, I can't believe that person wrote that or whatever.
• 37:24
  Speaker 4: And it was your reaction, you know, that type of thing.
• 37:26
  Speaker 4: So when you guys were talking about the blogs in
• 37:28
  Speaker 4: the reunion.
• 37:31
  Speaker 4: She had said though, Bethany on the show, she was like,
• 37:35
  Speaker 4: Carol has no career, has no kids and has no husband.
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: That was the biggest.
• 37:42
  Speaker 4: So cruel because you are a widow and you lost
• 37:44
  Speaker 4: your husband.
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: But that moment, it wasn't on the air, but I
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: kept saying, no, this is what you said. And that's
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: very hurtful. No, it was on the air. No, that
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: part was, but then, um, Andy's was yelling and the
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: producers came out and they kept saying, she didn't say
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: that you didn't have a husband, Carol. She didn't say that. So,
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: and I, and, There was a moment in the reunion,
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: I think they left it in. I'm like, she did.
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: She did say that. I'm not like me. I'm not
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: trying to make a drama. That is what it said.
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: That's really hurtful. And they're like, no, sorry. And it
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: was such a gaslighting moment.
• 38:20
  Speaker 4: So they were saying she did say the thing about
• 38:21
  Speaker 4: no career, no kids, but.
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: She never mentioned my late husband. And that's not true.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: But still, no career, no kids is really mean, too.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: I know. But Andy was like, no, the producer. I'm
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: having like. Andy was in his ear. He's like, no,
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: the producers are telling me they're watching the episode in
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: the control room. There's no control room. We're taping. I'm like,
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: and they're telling me that she didn't say that. I mean,
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: it was so, and I think that's what led to
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: me saying you're so full of shit or something, but, but,
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: you know, I, I made the mistake and, you know,
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: I would do some things different if I did it.
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: I would never do it again, but like, uh, I
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: would do some things different if, um, I could go
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: back in time, but you know, I just thought you
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: could go back in time. Would you go on? Well,
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: knowing what I know now, probably not, but, or maybe
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: I would, but I would do it differently. You know,
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: I would have to, you'd have to, I was very
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: authentic on it. Like I wasn't trying to be like
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: a lot, most of the housewives, they try to, They
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: act richer than they are. And they they also buy
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: into the, the, the, the, whatever the delusion that Bravo
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: is creating. Like you're the business woman, you're the crazy one,
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: you're the drunk, you're the, you know, and I guess
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: I was in some way the cool one, which I
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: never bought into because, um, it just is corny. Like,
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: and I wasn't, I was like more like nerdy, but, um,
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: In that way that you can buy into your persona,
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: it does protect you a little. But I was just
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: too normal and raw and out there. And I just
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: felt like if I did it again, I would be
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: much more calculating like they all are. Much more like
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: have an agenda, know what I'm doing. And I just didn't.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: I would go into scenes.
• 40:11
  Speaker 4: But I think that's also where the show is not as...
• 40:14
  Speaker 4: enjoyable that's why when you.
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: Hear and they were all agenda some of them more
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: agenda than others but when.
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: You hear about somebody who's like i'm just starting to
• 40:24
  Speaker 4: watch i've never watched before i'm just starting to watch
• 40:28
  Speaker 4: the comments that i'll get when someone like posts that
• 40:30
  Speaker 4: in my group or whatever yeah they'll be like oh
• 40:32
  Speaker 4: my god i'm so jealous that you're going to start
• 40:35
  Speaker 4: from the beginning and you're going to enjoy it for
• 40:37
  Speaker 4: yourself and You know, even though it's like 10 years old,
• 40:39
  Speaker 4: it's like they, because I think everybody was more authentic
• 40:45
  Speaker 4: because they didn't know what being on the show would
• 40:48
  Speaker 4: mean for the future and how it would be now
• 40:52
  Speaker 4: going on for infinity.
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, it started changing a little like season nine
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: and 10, like where it was just much more.
• 41:02
  Speaker 4: Calculated. Yeah.
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: And some of the, some housewives were better at it
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: than others, but it just became like the same scene.
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: Like one house, she'd like come in and scream and
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: you're whatever, whatever you are, a drunk, a whore, an idiot.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: And then, and then there'd be like a penance, you know, like, Oh,
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: you know, I can't believe I did that. And then
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: there might be a cry. And then it was like, repeat. Then,
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: you know, another scene come and insulted woman. And then
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: I can't believe I said that and cry and become
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: the victim. It was like a lot of that.
• 41:32
  Speaker 4: Well, now like on the new Roni, it's like this
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: one girl kind of said, I really, I mean, we
• 41:37
  Speaker 4: went to her house and she just had like a
• 41:41
  Speaker 4: charcuterie board that wasn't that great. That has gone on
• 41:44
  Speaker 4: for four episodes.
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's not good. Like, what would you do?
• 41:47
  Speaker 4: How would you feel if someone said that about your
• 41:50
  Speaker 4: charcuterie board?
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: I'm like, are you kidding me? That's it? I would
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: feel like I don't care. Yeah.
• 41:54
  Speaker 4: And then another one was about... They didn't want to
• 41:57
  Speaker 4: go to catch. They thought it was a little over.
• 42:01
  Speaker 4: And so the two girls went to a different restaurant.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: And blew them off. I mean, I think it's a
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: little studied, right?
• 42:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah, because nobody does want to say... And because it
• 42:13
  Speaker 4: is awful and you don't want to get to a
• 42:14
  Speaker 4: place where you're calling someone a whore and a dum-dum
• 42:16
  Speaker 4: and whatever... As they shouldn't do that. But then the
• 42:19
  Speaker 4: other part is it's like the audience, you can't satisfy
• 42:22
  Speaker 4: the audience because they say, oh, this has gotten too
• 42:25
  Speaker 4: harsh and it's too mean.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: But they like that. They like it. Yeah, they like that.
• 42:28
  Speaker 4: And then when everyone's just kind of like nice and
• 42:31
  Speaker 4: normal and respectful and the snarkiness is pretty low key,
• 42:36
  Speaker 4: then people are like, it's boring. Yeah.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: Like I'm sure people thought me, I was always, you know, boring.
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: Like some people, some fans would be like, oh, you're
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: so boring because I wasn't. getting drunk or taking my
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: clothes off or making out with Sonia Morgan or, you know,
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: I was just like, I was like, I don't think
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: I would do that in real life. Like I'm not
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: doing that, you know, and I wasn't calling women, you know,
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: I never, I mean, I got career shamed, age shamed.
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, I, You know, there was a lot coming
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: at me, even though like I was like not the drama.
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: But when I think about it, the women, you know,
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: went after me. I mean, Luann, when I started dating Adam,
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's like they really started that they they
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: went after me. But I never I wasn't into calling women,
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: you know, names and stuff. And that's the work of
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: the patriarchy. And every real narrative on that show is
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: on some level. a patriarchal trope about women, you know,
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: women betraying women, age shaming, having a career, not having
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: a career, not having kids. I was shamed for, you know,
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: it's just like a lot of, it's like the shame game. Yeah.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: That's a very good point, actually. But, you know, and
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: there was just a lot of producing at the end,
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: a lot of fakery. Yeah. A lot of fakery.
• 43:56
  Speaker 4: I can see, I mean, you can see that.
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: I mean, Luann got married.
• 43:59
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: I mean, good for her. Let's talk about that. That's
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: a moment. It's about Tom. Please tell me it's not
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: about Tom. It's about Tom.
• 44:12
  Speaker 4: And right when that started, to remind people, Luann was
• 44:16
  Speaker 4: engaged to this guy named Tom, who had dated several
• 44:19
  Speaker 4: other women on the cast. And it seemed like the
• 44:22
  Speaker 4: engagement came pretty.
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: Quickly after they dated. It was like the second week.
• 44:26
  Speaker 4: And you guys were all in Miami or something. Were
• 44:29
  Speaker 4: you on the show at this time?
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. We were in Palm Beach at an engagement
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: party yesterday. And then we went to Miami.
• 44:37
  Speaker 4: Bethany is beside herself because a friend of hers happened
• 44:42
  Speaker 4: to have been at the Regency and happened to have
• 44:46
  Speaker 4: taken a photo of Tom with an ex-girlfriend in which
• 44:50
  Speaker 4: they look like they're engaged in a kiss. Yeah. And
• 44:54
  Speaker 4: now this information that she never asked for... is on
• 44:59
  Speaker 4: her phone while the cameras are there and she's got
• 45:03
  Speaker 4: to tell Luann.
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 45:05
  Speaker 4: And then what's Luann going to do? Is she going
• 45:07
  Speaker 4: to forgive him? Get married, still get married to him?
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: What?
• 45:10
  Speaker 4: And a lot of people, not just me, were very
• 45:13
  Speaker 4: suspicious of how that came about.
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: We, we were all suspicious. Like, and I've said this
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: ad nauseum in, in, in, in interviews or the few
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: podcasts that I've done. And, Um, but at the time
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: I remember, it's just so funny that you bring this
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: up because at the time I was like, there's just
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: no way Bethany happened to have a friend. She doesn't
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: like have a lot of friends. One happened to be
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: at the Regency. I don't think she has any friends.
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, it wasn't me. Uh, one happened to be
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: at the Regency, like on a random Tuesday night at
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: 10 o'clock when Tom would walk in with an ex-girlfriend
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: and kiss at the bar. It just seems so implausible
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: and unbelievable, but it's like a storyline and there's a
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: photo allegedly.
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: And, um, And we saw the photo.
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: The photo was shared. She had a friend who happened
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: to be at the Regency who took the photo and
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: sent it to her. I remember that night she said,
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: she said, it's all a fake. I can't tell you why,
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: but I'll tell you Miami. You know, it's all, it's
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: not real. What's not real? The engagement wasn't real. That
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: was her take on it. And I was like, well,
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: we're going to an engagement party. We're filming a show.
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Like I got it. I'm going, I won't,
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: you know, and, uh, So anyway, so she does this
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: whole thing about... And I talked about this. There's a
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: book called Diamonds and... Right. Dave Quinn's book. And I
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: downloaded this whole... The whole scenario about how she really
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: found out that she knew... A friend of hers knew
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: the girl and was told that they still kind of
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: see each other and hook up and on and on
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: and on. So she said, next time you know that
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: it's going to happen, let me know. So... She was
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: told that Tom was going to be there on that
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: Tuesday night at 10 o'clock with the ex-girlfriend and they
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: were going to whatever.
• 46:55
  Speaker 4: So then who's the friend that took the photo?
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: So then, so I could never figure out the piece
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: of like who took the photo. Right. Heather, this is like,
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: talk about like, there are no secrets. Like six months ago,
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: maybe eight months ago, I'm having dinner downtown with a
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: friend of mine. It's in the movie business. And in
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: walks Michael Cohen. Now, Michael Cohen, I know he's Trump's lawyer.
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh my God. And they're no longer friends, obviously.
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: Trump and he. Oh yeah, right, no, no, no. And
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: I was like, I can't. And Michael wrote a book
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: and he wants to talk to my friend about maybe
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: doing something with the book. And I'm like, oh, my God,
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: it's like a fucking Michael Cohen is at dinner. And
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: he sits down and he's a character. And I'm like,
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: I'm prepared to not like him because all I know
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: about him is from the impeachment trials and all that.
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, I got to be honest, he was
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: really funny. And he's like, I know you. And I'm like.
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: you don't know me. I mean, there's no way. He goes,
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: I know you. I met you 10 years ago with
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: Aviva Drescher. And I know. And he starts listing. He goes,
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: I know all those effing housewives and this one and
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: this one and this one. And he gets Harry Dubin
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: on the phone. He's like, did you ever sleep with Harry?
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I never slept with Harry Dubin. He goes,
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: you're the only one. He gets Harry on the phone.
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: He's like, you ever sleep with, I'm having dinner with
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: Kara Radswell. You ever sleep with Harry? He's like, no.
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: And We started talking and he talked about Bethany and
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: Luann and Sonia. He knew all of them, Dorinda. He
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: actually liked Dorinda. You know, they were friends. And then
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: we started talking about Tom or the wedding. And he's like, oh, please.
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: He goes, I goes, of course I know Tom. Who
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: do you think took the picture? And I was like, wait,
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: what did you say? And he goes, who do you
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: think took the picture at the Regency?
• 48:51
  Speaker 4: So Michael Cohen was at the Regency that night.
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: So it was Michael. No, I think he, Dennis Shields,
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: who was then Bethany's boyfriend. Bethany's boyfriend. Fiance. I don't know.
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: Was friends with Michael Cohen. They both lived, they both
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: lived at Trump Towers and they were, they were friends.
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: And he actually talked beautifully about Dennis. And I'd met
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: Dennis a few times. He was really, really interesting. Very smart.
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: Interesting guy. And so he was talking about Dennis, maybe
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: that's how, and then he started talking about Tom and,
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: and he's, and he said, I took the picture. And
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: I was like, I just thought, Like the picture that
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: was on. And he's like, yeah, because I dug it.
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: And he said that Tom knew or something or eventually
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: knew that Michael Cohen had taken the photo that ended
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: up being forwarded to Bethany and ended up being on
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: the show. Now, I cannot. So let me just say allegedly,
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: because this is what he was telling me. He wasn't
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: he wasn't drinking. He was a drunk. And he came
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: out with it like it was like big deal. He's like, yeah,
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: I took it. So you think you can tell a
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: bullshit story on a reality show. Eventually, it all comes out.
• 50:05
  Speaker 4: So allegedly, he took it, sent it to his friend,
• 50:09
  Speaker 4: who was the dentist, former boyfriend, rest in peace, of Bethany.
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: Yes. That's how Bethany got it. And that's how it
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: got on the show.
• 50:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah. And Bethany allegedly knew the woman and said, let
• 50:21
  Speaker 4: us know when this moment comes.
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was all set up. That part I knew
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: because I had met the woman. I ran into the
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: woman at some event in New York a couple years ago.
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: But not that I cared, not that I was looking
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: to find out who took the fucking picture. I didn't care.
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: But it just literally sat at my table. I was like,
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: this is nuts. Yeah. Well, that's a good one. I
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: don't think I ever told anyone that. No.
• 50:47
  Speaker 4: No.
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 50:48
  Speaker 4: Cause I'm just imagining like some girl being like, but.
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: It just seems so weird. Cause you're right.
• 50:53
  Speaker 4: Like there are what friend you have.
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, the chances of that, I thought actually production
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: had said something, set something up, but, but yeah, I mean,
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: in a million years, I would not have thought that
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: Michael Cohen was going to sit down at dinner and
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: like tell this whole story about.
• 51:08
  Speaker 4: About how he, and then nobody was invited to the
• 51:11
  Speaker 4: way on his wedding. Right.
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: Was even so I think Dorinda was and stuff. Oh,
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: maybe Dorinda went.
• 51:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah.
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, I never told Luann about that. I never
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: told anyone. I mean, I just, it's like six months
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: ago when Michael mentioned it. Wow.
• 51:27
  Speaker 6: Allegedly.
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: Yes. Allegedly, allegedly, allegedly. Yes, yes. Oh my God. How's
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: that show Crappy Lake doing? I think it's really fun.
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think it's doing really well.
• 51:39
  Speaker 4: And that is why, and I talked to Annie too.
• 51:42
  Speaker 4: I go, oh, um, Because Jeff was there and Jeff said, oh,
• 51:48
  Speaker 4: I've got Carol, Caroline Manzo coming on Jeff's show.
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: And he was kind of like, hmm.
• 51:56
  Speaker 4: And I go, oh, interesting that you, the ultimate girls
• 51:59
  Speaker 4: trip with Caroline Manzo, the juicy thing that happened on that,
• 52:03
  Speaker 4: which they shot that before they shot the OGs going
• 52:08
  Speaker 4: to St. Bart's. So that was supposed to air first.
• 52:12
  Speaker 4: They have now put that on hold, the one with
• 52:14
  Speaker 4: Caroline Manzo and Brandy, because another lesbian thing happened where
• 52:17
  Speaker 4: Brandy tried to make out with Caroline Manzo and grab
• 52:21
  Speaker 4: her gentles and HR and whatever got involved. And so
• 52:26
  Speaker 4: I said, oh, it's interesting that you are pushing that
• 52:29
  Speaker 4: one back and moving- So that one, if we ever
• 52:32
  Speaker 4: do see it, is not going to be until 2024.
• 52:35
  Speaker 4: And the.
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: The rony one? And now the rony one will be
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: in December. Yeah. Oh yeah. They went back to the
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: house that we went with the pirate. Right. And they,
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: and they, they believe that. Oh my God.
• 52:50
  Speaker 4: I mean, I think the thought is that crappy Lake
• 52:52
  Speaker 4: is doing well on Peacock and with the fans. And
• 52:55
  Speaker 4: so they'd rather obviously, but I see, I see little
• 52:58
  Speaker 4: bits on TikTok and it looked, I mean, listen, what
• 53:02
  Speaker 4: say what you will that Luann and Sonia, they were
• 53:05
  Speaker 4: not my, you know, they weren't my pals on the show, but,
• 53:09
  Speaker 4: but that show looks, that's like perfect.
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: That's like a perfect show for them. I mean, I
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: think it's like funny and comforting. Yeah.
• 53:18
  Speaker 4: And the thing about, and I said this to Leanne too,
• 53:20
  Speaker 4: I go, you know, throughout watching you, you and Sonia
• 53:25
  Speaker 4: both- never in all the years ever like did the
• 53:29
  Speaker 4: really mean, you know, not just on New York, but
• 53:32
  Speaker 4: other franchises. There's certain housewives that would really be like,
• 53:36
  Speaker 4: I have this thing I'm holding that I'm going to
• 53:38
  Speaker 4: plop and ruin your life.
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: Like a photo. Yes, like a photo. Or like a secret.
• 53:44
  Speaker 4: I know what your husband did. And I think that
• 53:46
  Speaker 4: you're lying about that. You know, and I was in
• 53:49
  Speaker 4: the car with Kathy Hilton.
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: She did.
• 53:51
  Speaker 4: You know, like Lisa Rinna. Like there's certain people that...
• 53:54
  Speaker 4: that throughout their career, whether you like them or not,
• 53:56
  Speaker 4: have done really kind of cruel or manipulative or said
• 53:59
  Speaker 4: really cruel things. And I just can say, I don't think,
• 54:03
  Speaker 4: in my opinion of watching everything, Luann and Sonia are
• 54:06
  Speaker 4: just not... outwardly cruel people are not manipulative and they're
• 54:10
  Speaker 4: not calculating. They're not planning shit out. They really are
• 54:13
  Speaker 4: silly and fun. And they're just out to like, fuck
• 54:15
  Speaker 4: some guys and drink.
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And have some fun. Yeah. I mean, she did
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: call me a pedophile. She, she got a little, a little,
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: they went right up to the line. She goes on,
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: on the press tour. And I don't think, I don't
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: think I'm a favorite of hers, which I don't mind
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: at all. And she's super pressed. Did she say something
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: about it? Someone sent me a clip about, it was
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: so random. And I kind of laughed because I thought,
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: I harbor no real ill will. But the question was,
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: who do you never want to see again? And Sonia
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: said someone like someone on a different show. Okay. Like
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: an OC lady. And Luann was like, well, Carol Ratz.
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: I was like, really? And because then she she she
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: she does the work of the patriarchy, too, because she
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: is that woman who is going to defend the corporation.
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: And she said that I may have said things that were,
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: you know, against Bravo, you know, and I'm sure I did.
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: But like, I'm not genuflecting at the altar of corporatism
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: or capitalism even. So I'm going to speak my truth
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: and my experience. But she she came. It was just
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: so random. And I almost thought like, oh, no, no, no.
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: It's fine. Like, I think you're great on your show
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: and I'm happy for your cabaret.
• 55:32
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 55:32
  Speaker 4: I mean, I think I and I think that's and
• 55:34
  Speaker 4: I think that's all she wants to do. Like she's like,
• 55:37
  Speaker 4: I just want to be silly and be fun and
• 55:39
  Speaker 4: do my shows and maybe some other fun stuff along
• 55:42
  Speaker 4: the way and find a guy.
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 55:45
  Speaker 4: And that's really.
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: Is she married again? No, she's... I mean, really? When
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: I was.
• 55:51
  Speaker 4: I was hanging out with her recently in LA.
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: Like, you're buddies. And she is really like a dude.
• 55:57
  Speaker 4: Like, she's like a rock star guy that gets, like,
• 56:01
  Speaker 4: dudes hitting on her all the time.
• 56:03
  Speaker 5: And she.
• 56:06
  Speaker 4: Goes for them young, gets them, gets laid all the time.
• 56:08
  Speaker 4: And it's kind of, she's a little bit braggy about
• 56:10
  Speaker 4: like in a good, like, I love it. Cause she's like, oh,
• 56:13
  Speaker 4: wait till you see the St.
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: Bart show.
• 56:16
  Speaker 4: Oh, I got the hottest guy there.
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: And like, and I'm like, I think it's kind of funny.
• 56:20
  Speaker 4: And I think it's kind of great. Cause it's like,
• 56:22
  Speaker 4: you know, that part of, I like that feminist side
• 56:26
  Speaker 4: of it. Like, yeah, you're, You look freaking amazing. You're
• 56:29
  Speaker 4: super sexual. Guys like you guys hit on you and
• 56:33
  Speaker 4: you are not ashamed to be like, yeah. I'm on
• 56:37
  Speaker 4: the road. I'm a free agent.
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: And she's got her groupies. She literally gets like guys.
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, good for you. Straight guys that watch
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: the show? No, straight guys.
• 56:47
  Speaker 4: I mean, just saying like she'll just be out and
• 56:49
  Speaker 4: like a hot guy will like hit on her and
• 56:51
  Speaker 4: she'll go for it and like put a little notch
• 56:54
  Speaker 4: on her belt.
• 56:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 56:56
  Speaker 4: And I'm like, good for you.
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 56:58
  Speaker 4: I mean, yeah.
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: But then she's also like, I would, you.
• 57:01
  Speaker 4: Know, eventually she's like, I would love to, you know,
• 57:04
  Speaker 4: be married again and everything. But right now she's just enjoying,
• 57:08
  Speaker 4: enjoying it.
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: And she should because.
• 57:11
  Speaker 4: You know, like anything.
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: She was good at it. She was also someone who
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: bought into, there's a delusion there, right? So she bought
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: into her. Well, dear, I don't use a clear. I mean,
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: and so those, those housewives who got to buy into
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: their bullshit, they, they, they can survive and they can
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: keep them women. Cause like, I remember I, It was
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: Bethany that said some really horrible things to her and
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: she just sort of let it roll.
• 57:36
  Speaker 4: Well, I don't think she's a fan of Bethany's anymore. No,
• 57:40
  Speaker 4: I don't think she was then either.
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: But she just bought into that persona. So it kind
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: of protects you a little bit. Right. And maybe she
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: brought it to Crappy Lake. But I've never seen it.
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to watch it just because I don't
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: really watch reality at all. But it looked funny. I thought, oh,
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: that makes sense. I'd like to produce that show. That
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: makes sense.
• 58:04
  Speaker 4: It's like a simple, funny.
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: It's like the simple life a little bit? Yeah, it's
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: like the simple life. We're doing like a whole fucking
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: advertisement for a crappy like... Yeah. We should be on
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: the payroll. But I think that.
• 58:14
  Speaker 4: No, but I think it is. I think it was
• 58:16
  Speaker 4: a good idea for a show.
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a really good idea.
• 58:19
  Speaker 4: It fed, you know... that little simple, like escape. They're
• 58:23
  Speaker 4: not mean to each other, but there's, but there still
• 58:25
  Speaker 4: are two girls that we like to see, you know?
• 58:28
  Speaker 4: Cause it's like, you do kind of like the OGs
• 58:30
  Speaker 4: you do. Cause you know them so well. And it's
• 58:33
  Speaker 4: just kind of, it's like when I was on the
• 58:36
  Speaker 4: plane and going from LA to, um, to New York
• 58:40
  Speaker 4: and I'm in, you know, my, I didn't, my iPad
• 58:42
  Speaker 4: wasn't like working. So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna watch
• 58:44
  Speaker 4: what United has to offer.
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 58:47
  Speaker 4: And, um, All I wanted to watch when I saw
• 58:49
  Speaker 4: any television show, I'm like, please, I get to the S's. Please,
• 58:53
  Speaker 4: Sex and the City. Please, Sex and the City. And
• 58:55
  Speaker 4: oh my God, then first I thought they only had three. No,
• 58:58
  Speaker 4: I watched like seven.
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: I mean, the old one.
• 59:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and they United picked, or whoever's in charge of United,
• 59:05
  Speaker 4: they picked all the best episodes, like one or two,
• 59:09
  Speaker 4: a season that like, you know.
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: That's nice.
• 59:12
  Speaker 4: Like, when, you know, Carrie starts to have her affair
• 59:16
  Speaker 4: with Big while she's still with Aiden, like, and he
• 59:18
  Speaker 4: pushes her up against.
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: The wall in the elevator.
• 59:20
  Speaker 4: Like, all the, like, iconic episodes. And I'm, like, having
• 59:24
  Speaker 4: a couple glasses of wine, and I'm just loving it.
• 59:27
  Speaker 4: I'm going to New York. I'm watching these New York scenes.
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: It holds up.
• 59:32
  Speaker 4: And, you know, when you're up in the air, too,
• 59:33
  Speaker 4: you get, like, more emotional. So now I'm crying.
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: What?
• 59:37
  Speaker 4: Because I was like, oh, my God, I currently have a...
• 59:42
  Speaker 4: A Charlotte and a Samantha.
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: And all of a sudden, it hit me. Oh, my God.
• 59:46
  Speaker 4: My one friend, Lainey, even though she's been married like
• 59:48
  Speaker 4: 30 years, is very much like Samantha. The personality, the funniness.
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, that show really holds up. That was the 90s. Oh,
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: my God. It's just the best. That holds up. That
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: holds up in a way. Roni, OG, that doesn't hold
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: up as much. Or maybe it does.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 4: No, but I kind of have the same feeling, which
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 4: is why I do love Peacock and I do wish
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 4: before getting money when I watched the Peacock stuff. Because
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 4: I will be like, sometimes I'm like, I just wanna watch.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 4: I looked on there to see which, Which things, they
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 4: did have one reality show, one Real Housewife on there,
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 4: but I can't remember. But it didn't interest me as
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 4: much as watching Scythe in the City. But if they
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 4: did have like season four or five of Roni or something,
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 4: I probably would have watched that because it's like comforting.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: We should be getting paid for that.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 4: The first three seasons of Real Housewives of OC, first
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 4: three or four seasons, I could watch that.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: Over and over.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 4: It's like there's something weird about... It's like weirdly comforting.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: It's like for me watching Wonder Years or I Love Lucy.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and it reminds me of like, oh, you know,
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 4: this was around... You know, this was around, you know,
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 4: when we were in a recession of 2008.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 4: It's like there's weird, like, kind of like funny history.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 4: It's just, yeah. So I think it's kind of like that.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: Do you think it's going to last or it's seen
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: its day and it's kind of winding down? Which is?
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: This whole franchise, this whole, like, idea of female betrayal
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: being entertainment and kind of exploiting all those patriarchal tropes
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: about women and age. I think. I feel like it's coming.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 4: I think that just like Sex and the City, I
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 4: think that young people, younger women will find it and
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 4: they will love it. The old stuff. I don't know
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 4: about the going forward. I think it's going to be
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 4: more of a challenge. But the one thing that my
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 4: friend Kate Casey was saying was she's like, I do.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 4: And even Spencer Pratt said it on my show.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: From the hills.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 4: I've seen him on your show. I would go on
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 4: a reality show right now for free. And this is
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 4: why I don't think it would, why I think it's
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 4: going to be a challenge as much as I, you know,
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 4: is he's like, because.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: Why would he do it?
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 4: Because honestly, I think what else, like, if you're trying to,
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 4: if you want to, if you're a woman, you want
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 4: to be famous and you, but you want your job
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 4: to be being an influencer and, You will never at
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 4: this point in 2023, it'll be so hard to gain.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: Attraction without being on TV.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 4: Without being on TV. But if you suddenly go on TV,
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 4: even if it's one season, you will get.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: Up to, I mean, That's why most of them are influencers.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 4: And so they're like, hey, even if I just do
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 4: this for one year, I'm going to walk away with 800,000 followers.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 4: And that's going to be enough to build on and
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 4: get deals. And if I want to sell a product,
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 4: if I want to find... Like, how else am I
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 4: going to get to be famous?
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: There's no other way. Because Bravo is not interested in
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: promoting your product or whatever it is. But so... But
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: now Instagram and TikTok is so big, you can take
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: it off.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 4: But I mean, imagine being like, like we, you know,
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 4: we were saying like in watching Real Housewives of USC
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 4: and stuff and people are like, oh, I think they
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 4: need a new cast or whatever they need. And it's
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 4: like the stuff that's really interesting about Orange County, what
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 4: you want to see is you want to see, like,
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 4: I want to see that fourth wife who's 30 and
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 4: her husband is 59 and he has a new set
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 4: of white veneers and they're tan and she has.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: To- Don't judge me. Younger women with older men or
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: older women with younger men?
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 4: I'm actually not judging. I'm saying I want to see
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 4: what that life is like. I'm not saying she shouldn't
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 4: have done it. But I would like to see the
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 4: benefits of it, the challenges of it. What is it
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 4: like to be a stepmom? Is she friendly with... We
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 4: saw a little bit with like Meghan King Edmonds. She
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 4: was friendly with one ex-wife. She wasn't friendly with the other.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 4: But like those things are interesting when you see them.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: Why do you think actresses all watch? It just bothers
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: me for some reason when you see real bonafide, serious actresses.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: I just think it's a fun escape. Okay.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 4: It's like when people write to me and they're like
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 4: watching my show and they're like, There's more important things
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 4: going on in the world.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: I'm like, fuck yeah, there is.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 4: This is an important, this is an escape. And I
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 4: think it's the same thing where it's funny and it's
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 4: like an escape. It's just like a comforting thing.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: It's not... Because they do the promotion for Bravo so well.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: Sometimes I think that they're like.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 4: One of the things that Bethany always refers to it
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 4: is that like the sport. Her new thing is referring
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 4: to housewives as a sport. She's like, and this is
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 4: how you play the sport. And she was like to Jill,
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 4: she's like, you drop the ball.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: You fumble. And I'm like, you look at historically at
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: how she speaks in that word salad kind of way,
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: which is just idioms strung together. Sometimes, you know, you
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: have to execute and take, you know, take the ball
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: into the end zone. And like, it's like, what the
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: fuck are you saying? It's just... It's hilarious, but it's
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: like a bunch of phrases and like a cheerleading kind
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: of thing, but there's no substance to it.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 4: Yes, I agree. Okay, let's just talk about a couple
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 4: hot topics. A couple hot topics.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: I hope I'm going to be well-versed in all these
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: hot topics because I've been away.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 4: I'm going to pick out some of the juiciest ones.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: So Wayne Brady... Comedian, he.
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 4: Did Whose Line Is It Anyway, and he's been around forever,
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 4: and he's the host of Let's Make a Deal, and
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 4: he was married and he had a child, and now
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 4: he just came out as saying, I'm pansexual. He didn't
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 4: say he's bisexual. He said he's pansexual, meaning- What is that?
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 4: I think it means I'll take anything.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: But isn't that bi? Oh, no.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 4: No, because you might, maybe you would get someone who's
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 4: trans or something.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: Okay. So you're just.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 4: Any person that interests you, any... Whatever their sexuality is
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 4: or gender, you might be open to it.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: Okay. Why did he come out and say... Okay. Well, that.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 4: I don't know why he came out.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: Is he with a man now?
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 4: Well, I think the only reason you would say that
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 4: is because something is coming out. I feel like he's.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: Getting ahead of something.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 4: I've never acted on this ever, but I just wanted
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 4: the world to know.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: That I could possibly....
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 4: In the future, if I met the right guy, I
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 4: might be attracted to a guy. Not that it's happened yet.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I feel like he's getting, what do they say,
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: get ahead of the story? I feel like he might
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: be getting ahead of a story that we haven't heard yet.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 4: Well, it's a great time to... being something other than
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 4: straight is the best time in history. So like, if
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 4: that's what you are, good, be honest. I think maybe
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 4: it was, oh, I think maybe, okay. Maybe there was
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 4: something coming out or someone threatening and because he is
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 4: on such a squeaky clean network show.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: Oh, he is, okay.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 4: Let's make a deal where they wear like the goofy
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 4: costumes and stuff.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah. He leaned into it. That's a strategy to take
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: the wind out of the sails.
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 4: Or maybe, maybe his contract was up And they might
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 4: be thinking, not based on his sexuality, but as talented
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 4: as he is and as likable as he is, maybe
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 4: he's at a place where he's getting paid so much
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 4: That they might be like, you know what? Let's get
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 4: rid of Wayne. Let's get a younger version of Wayne
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 4: or a different person or a woman or whatever. So
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 4: he's creating some press around him? And so then I
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 4: think he was like, well, let me come out. Let
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 4: me hit the world with this. Because if they try
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 4: to fire me now, they won't be able to. Yeah.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 4: I think that's what's happening.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: That's genius. Because I'm sure he makes a lot.
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 5: That's crazy.
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 4: Because he's been doing it for a really long time.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: That's so good.
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 4: And it's a staple show that's been around for like
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 4: 30 years. And he's been the host for like at
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 4: least 10 or 12.
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: That is so good. I agree with you. Yeah. I
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: think now he's setting himself up as a double minority
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: or triple minority.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 4: It's called checking boxes.
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: He's checking boxes.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: Well.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 4: And now you can check. Okay, so you check. You
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 4: don't get a box for being a man, okay?
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: No.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 4: But you can check that he's black.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: He's black.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 4: You check that he is pansexual.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 4: But then under that, that also includes bi. Trans. And
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 4: that also includes gay. And that includes trans.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh, my God. He's checking a lot of boxes.
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 4: Not that he's trans, but that he could be with
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 4: a trans person.
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 4: So that's five boxes.
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm just boring hetero. I need more boxes.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 4: Well, I mean, it's like, yeah, it's the boxes. Okay,
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 4: so that's kind of juicy. Yeah, that's... Let me see.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 4: What else is going on? Well, this I thought was
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 4: kind of juicy. So Jamie Foxx. who we still don't
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 4: know what happened to him we don't know if he
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 4: had a stroke don't know what happened right some people
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 4: on tiktok believe he's been replaced by a whole other
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 4: person because he his complexion has changed his eye shape
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 4: has changed i think it's still jamie.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 7: Fox right but he had a medical situation anyway he
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 7: wrote a post that was like um I saw it
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 7: on TikTok.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: It was something about... Something like they killed Jesus. What
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: are they going to do to you? Yeah, they killed Jesus.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 4: What are they going to do to you?
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 2: Fake friends, fake whatever. Right, right.
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 4: And Jennifer Aniston liked it. She later on said, I
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 4: didn't not like it. I didn't like it. I didn't
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 4: mean to like it. She didn't really admit to like inadvertently.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 4: She didn't say it was my social media. She just said...
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 4: I'm horrified that anybody thought that I liked it because...
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 4: So people thought it was anti-Semitic by saying that in
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 4: the Bible, you know, the Jewish people, the Jews crucified Jesus.
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 4: So by saying they killed him, what are they going
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 4: to do to you?
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: Fake friends, fake Hollywood. But it feels like he... I
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: don't know. I'm the wrong person because I do not
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: believe in any sort of organized religion, not my own.
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 4: Well, I can explain it. Someone who was raised Catholic.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: I was raised Catholic.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 4: So my dad used to say things like, he'd go, hey,
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 4: there was only one person who was perfect. And you
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 4: know what they did to him? And never when he,
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 4: my dad said that they, did we ever refer, were
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 4: we ever thinking of Jewish people? It's like people in general.
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 4: So don't try to be perfect.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: But wasn't he saying fake, like he was talking about Brutus?
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: Like who was the? Judas. The Judas, yeah. Yes.
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 4: So a lot of people that came to his defense.
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 4: He was talking about, it feels like he was talking
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 4: about a betrayal of a friend.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: Right. And it was like his brother. Judas. And Judas.
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Judas was his disciples. Maybe Judas' pronouns
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: are they now. Judas goes by they. Maybe. Maybe they.
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 4: It's just one person.
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 2: It wasn't.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 4: It wasn't just.
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: It was just one person.
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 4: Right. Pronouns.
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: But he meant Judas. Yeah, it feels like he was
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: talking about a very specific person.
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 4: But Judas betrayed him for, you know, in the Bible
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 4: for 75 silver coins.
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: Something like that.
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 4: And told the, and let the soldiers know where Jesus
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 4: was hiding. Yeah.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: Wow, look at you. He was like, well, please, 12
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: years of Catholic school. I went to Catholic school, but
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: I got to remember. So- I remember wearing a rosary
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 2: as a headband and then I got kicked out.
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 4: No, that's not okay.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 4: You're not supposed to wear a rosary as a necklace either.
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 4: But I think now I remember my nun getting really
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 4: mad at, like, because we were, like, in that, like,
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 4: Madonna era. And so a lot of girls wanted to
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 4: wear that. And she was like, oh, girl.
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: I never trusted organized. Organized religion. Like, I believe in higher.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 4: But as Christians in general, I believe that Jesus is
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 4: the Son of God, whatever. A lot of people believe.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 4: Cajunist offense because they're like, no, no, no. It's never
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 4: been like that when people have said that. It's been
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 4: like what my dad said. Like, don't try to be
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 4: perfect because there was one person who was perfect.
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 4: And then they hated him for being perfect. So like
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 4: the lesson was people are going to hate you no
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 4: matter what. Right. So don't try.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: Just be yourself and be a good person.
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 4: But it was never like an anti- So anyway, that girl, Lizzie,
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 4: who I talked about earlier, Lizzie, who they left Rhodey.
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 4: I follow her, you know, because she's very pro-Israel and
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 4: she's a Jewish matchmaker and she's like an Orthodox Jew
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 4: or something. So she first talked about it, how she said,
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 4: this is horrible, horrible that he did this. But then
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 4: she did another one after and she was like, okay,
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 4: thank you for educating me. Then she did another video
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 4: and she said, listen, this was upsetting to me because
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 4: I was a Jew in Texas. And there were times
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 4: growing up where people would be like, your people killed Jesus.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 4: Because when you'd be like reading or taking a religion class,
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 4: they would say, you know, in the Bible. And then
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 4: the Jews did this. And then the Jews said this.
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 4: So you're the one Jewish person in the school and
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 4: dumb little kids might have said that to her. So
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 4: that's why she was sensitive to it as well.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: And then did she apologize? Then she apologized.
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 4: She said, a lot of people have written me and
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 4: explained that it's not that.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: It's not attacking. He apologized. Yeah, he said he.
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 4: Took it down and he's like, absolutely it wasn't anti-Semitic
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 4: at all. It was like people betray people.
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 4: So I've been betrayed, fake friends, fake Hollywood.
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: It wasn't anti-Semitic. But, you know, it seems odd. He
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: has this medical condition. He's been under the radar. And
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: the first thing he's going to come out with is
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 2: going to be some crazy anti-Semitic trope about killing. I mean,
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: it was. And it is sad.
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 4: And it is something that, you know.
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 2: You know, we have to be hyper aware.
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 4: Of because the crimes, you know, the anti-Semitic crimes have
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 4: been horrific.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 4: I mean, I totally, totally get it, but it just
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 4: goes to show you. And then, but the Jennifer Aniston.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: What did you know?
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 4: She accidentally liked something and somebody caught that.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: Oh my God. And I have accidentally liked. Yeah.
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 4: It wasn't even a post. It was like a comment
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 4: in my private thing that then somebody screen grabbed, sent
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 4: to the person that everyone.
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: Has those actions. I recently accidentally followed the ex-girlfriend of
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: a guy on That is so, I mean, that's worse.
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 2: There is a really flu check and it's very obvious.
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 2: And I did it. And then what did you do?
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 4: Did you have to leave it or did you try
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 4: to unfollow?
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: No, I just unfollowed. It was just innocent. I was
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: just looking. I don't want to go into the whole thing,
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 2: but it was one of those moments where I'm like,
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 2: Oh no.
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 4: There was a really funny TikTok of this girl and
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 4: she's sitting. By the way, I like to talk about
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 4: funny TikToks I see all the time. And I saw
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 4: somebody wrote me and they're like, you're stealing material. And
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 4: I'm like, I'm not saying that I did this. I'm
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 4: saying I saw a really funny TikTok. I did not.
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 2: Execute this video. I literally saw it.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 4: Like, I'm not saying I create, but this girl's sitting
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 4: there and she's, they're like, you know, they just show
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 4: her and then it's like the writing and they're like,
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 4: And then when you're stalking your boyfriend's, your ex-girlfriend, and
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 4: you accidentally like a post from 2017.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: And she's like, oh!
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 4: And she's like rolling out. She like rolls into the pool.
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: That's how it felt. Because there's no way.
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 4: And especially if someone isn't famous, all of a sudden...
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 4: they might have notifications on and all of a sudden
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 4: someone follows them or someone likes them.
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 2: I think you get notified. Like Tara Reds will start
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 2: following you. Like why?
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 4: If someone started following me, I don't know that someone
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 4: started following me because I don't have those notifications up.
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 4: But for a regular person that has whatever, 200 followers,
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 4: they're like, oh, this person I met at the party
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 4: is now following me. So they get it.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: But by the way, it's like I have like three
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: fake accounts and like 10 aliases. Like if I wanted
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: to snoop, I could do it. It was just totally innocent.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: But I was like, You need that, like, it should
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: be like a premier service where you can pay into
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 2: it and then you could immediately unlike or unfollow before
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: a notification is sent. Like, I think a lot of
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: women would pay for that service. Yeah.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: Harry and Meghan.
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 4: Oh, they still, they're still today. They actually bought the
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 4: rights to a book called Meet Me at the Lake,
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 4: which was a novel that is based on their lives.
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 2: On Meghan and Harry?
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 7: Yes.
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 4: Somebody wrote a novel like that. They bought the rights
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 4: and now Netflix is going to do the movie. So
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 4: I don't think they're completely out of the game. I
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 4: thought they like kind of were like I said, sounded
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 4: like Netflix didn't do well. The podcast didn't is dumb
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 4: but i guess netflix was like you better come up
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 4: with some material and i guess this is one of
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 4: the things.
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: But and of course the novelist is thrilled was they
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 2: knew the book was based on their love affair their
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 2: romance did they yeah i guess someone i think it's
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 2: like a someone murdered no i think i mean why
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: are they meeting at a lake girls go missing yeah
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 2: i don't know What? I don't follow them that much,
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 2: although I was in London and there's a lot of
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: headlines about Meghan and Harry.
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 4: What's the vibe? Do they still hate her or do
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 4: they want them to come back?
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: No, I think the vibe is that they're not well
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 2: liked or she's not.
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, of course. She's like the peasant
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: girl that stole the prince away. Right. You know, it's
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: like that old choice. That old narrative.
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 4: I always said if they don't last, she's going to
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 4: Lauren Sanchez it and get someone like a Jeff Bezos
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 4: or somebody.
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: So now. She's going to do like a Sanchez.
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 4: And I'm not the first person to suggest this, but
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 4: I do. I would not be surprised.
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: She's going to do a dirty Sanchez. Isn't that like a.
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: A sex thing? Yeah. What is it, though? I think it's, like,
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: shitting on someone. No, she's going to go after the
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 2: Prime Minister of Canada. He's getting divorced. He's getting divorced. Oh, shit.
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: He's still hot. He's still hot. He's still real hot.
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 2: How old is he? He's probably, like, 20 years too
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: old for me.
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 3: Thoreau?
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 4: Thurdeau?
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 2: Thurdeau?
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 4: What is it?
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 3: Thurdeau.
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: No, he's, like, 53. That's too old for you now? No.
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 4: No. I know you like him young.
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 2: I like guys who like me.
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 4: You like guys who what?
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 2: I like guys who like me. And they just tend
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 2: to be younger.
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 4: Anyway, so that's always a possibility.
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 2: So she's got, I always find like those like Marriage
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: on the Rock stories to be just blatantly untrue. No, no,
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 2: they are filing. They filed.
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 4: Prime Minister of Canada and his wife.
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 2: Oh, no, no, no. I meant Harry and Meghan getting divorced.
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 2: It's just a bunch of made-up stories. I mean, I
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 2: felt like there were a lot of stories about John
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: and Carolyn getting divorced before they got married. Right. You know,
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 2: and it was just all made-up stuff. It was just
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 2: all made-up stuff, you know, so I'm sensitive to that.
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 2: I'm like, nobody knows really what's happening except the two
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 2: people in the marriage. You know, I wanted to ask
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 2: you about that because obviously you were so close to them.
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 4: And I don't, this is no disrespect. I just want
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 4: to ask you in retrospect. And I never saw it
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 4: until I saw one of the millions of documentaries about
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 4: them where I'm like, I really do think JFK would
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 4: have preferred to pursue acting. He wanted to act in
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 4: college and then, you know, he couldn't. So then, you know,
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 4: he had to go to law school and then he, okay,
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 4: I'll come up with this magazine. But like, he obviously did,
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 4: even though he, there was always these fights and there
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 4: was always these fights, you know, about, oh my God,
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 4: leave Caroline alone when they were together. But then there
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 4: was this one thing I saw where someone goes, hey, look,
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 4: he went riding his bike shirtless around the city.
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 2: He lived in a.
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 4: Building with no doorman that you could always see him at.
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 4: And I think he, and there's nothing wrong with liking
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 4: being recognized and famous. I mean, I like being recognized.
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 4: I always wanted to be famous. I always wanted to
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 4: perform as a kid. Like, I don't think it's a
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 4: shameful thing to say that you like that you are
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 4: an extrovert and you like that.
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 2: I think honestly, and this is just my opinion. I
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 2: feel like that kind of stuff. He really tried. So,
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 2: hard to be normal. I think that his entire family
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 2: lived in the Upper East Side. And then he decided
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 2: to move to Tribeca. He was the only one. And
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 2: it was weird in this not nice building with no doorman.
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: I think riding the bike around shirtless.
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 4: I think to a non-New Yorker, that seems like nothing.
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 4: Because it would be different. But I'm saying, if it
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 4: was like his whole family lived on the Upper West
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 4: Side of New York, whatever. And he moved to South
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 4: Carolina on the Bayou or whatever. Like that would be
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 4: like getting away. Saying I moved a few blocks down
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 4: the road to Tribeca to a non-New Yorker that just
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 4: seems like that is not a big deal.
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 2: It is though. It's like in these tiny little ways
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 2: he was declaring his independence from a family that was
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 2: very entrenched and hierarchical and.
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 2: You know, you did certain things, you went to certain jobs.
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, starting, getting into the press, you know, starting
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 2: a magazine. I think those are things he did to
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 2: maybe as an expression of his artistic. Right. Because, yeah.
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think he would have been good. No,
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 2: I know he did like, I don't think he would
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 2: have been good. He did acting and stuff in college.
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: He did. Yeah. And he loved it. But I think
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 2: ultimately he probably wouldn't have pursued it, although... Um, he,
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 2: you know, he, he was a bit of a drama.
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 4: My, when we were in college, like a couple of
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 4: years out of school, my friends invited me to go
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 4: to like a party or whatever. And I never turned
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 4: a party down a party ever. It was like the
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 4: one time I'm like, I'm not going to go to
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 4: this Christmas party. I'm just, I'm just too burnt out.
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 4: And they came back and this is when he was single.
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 4: And they're like, he was in LA at this great
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 4: Christmas party.
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 2: When was that?
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 4: 90? It was like 90, let's say like 94, 95. Okay.
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 2: 94. And I was just suicidal. Like it could have
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 2: been you.
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 4: Absolutely.
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 2: It could have been you.
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 4: I'm thinking it could have been me.
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 2: He is my type.
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 4: Whose type is he not? Irish Catholic. My mother was
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 4: obsessed with the Kennedys and everything.
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 4: I literally was about to throw myself off the balcony.
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 4: And then they said, no, we made up the whole thing.
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 4: He was not at the party. They just were like
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 4: so mad that I didn't go that.
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 2: They're like, who can we say? Oh my God. Those
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 2: are good friends. So fucking mad. Those are good friends. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah. I mean, what do you think about his uncle
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 4: running for president?
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 2: I don't want to say anything about that.
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 4: All I can think about is if he did win.
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 2: No.
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 4: Cheryl Hines. who I was in the growlies with, would
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 4: be the first lady.
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 2: Oh, you'd have an in. Do you still, I mean.
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 4: I mean, we're kind of friendly. And now I feel
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 4: like she's laying very low. Like, I don't even know
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 4: if she's doing her podcast anymore because I'm like.
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 2: Oh, she had a podcast? Yeah, but it was like silly.
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 4: With Tig and they would like talk about documentaries and like,
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 4: they're just like funny. It was never, she was never being,
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 4: she was never sharing anything personal. Like my podcast is
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 4: so personal. Like everything I've ever said, if I was
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 4: ever going to run for office could, you know, be
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 4: used against me. But like, I think she's led a
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 4: pretty safe, normal life, and then is his wife.
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 2: But he'll be very interesting. He's pretty out there. I mean,
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 2: is there a chance? I don't think there's a chance.
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, who knows? Who knows? This country has gone nuts.
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 2: Just nuts, nuts, nuts. Cheryl, is there anything? We didn't
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 2: talk about Barbie.
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 4: Did you love the movie?
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 2: I did. I mean.
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 4: I loved the movie.
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 2: I thought it was great. Loved it.
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 4: I didn't know what to expect, and I was really happy.
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 2: I took my seven-year-old nephew, who loved it for different reasons. reason,
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 2: but like, I didn't know it was about the patriarchy. Like,
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 2: I didn't know nothing. I just wore pink. I was like,
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 2: everyone's wearing pink. I wore pink. I knew nothing about it.
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 4: Well, I mean, what I think is cool is that
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 4: if you did take a younger person, they still might
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 4: enjoy it and they're not going to get a bad message,
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 4: but they may not get the full message, but they're
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 4: not going to get a bad message.
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 2: But I think for young girls, I think even if
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 2: they ask, you know, mommy, what's the patriarchy? Like, that's big.
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 2: They're doing their job. I mean, I thought it was...
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 2: I was just blown away by it. I mean, it
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 2: was funny. Well, I mean, there's just so.
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 4: Many things that, like, as a woman in the last—
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 4: Men hated it. Even about the last, like, you know,
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 4: few years of, like, Me Too and sexual harassment and stuff,
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 4: that me, I would be like, well, we just put
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 4: up with it. I'm like, and the reason, and that's why.
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 2: Because we live in a patriarchal society.
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 4: That's why it went on so long. And when an
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 4: old man would flirt with you at work or say,
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 4: you would just giggle because you were so embarrassed for
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 4: that old fucker that thought he had any chance with you.
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 2: And there was no outlet for you to complain without
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 2: getting fired. Like the 90s. You would never. Like when
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 2: we came of age in the workforce, it was the
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 2: first generation of young women en masse that went into
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 2: corporate America. Like my mom.
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 2: Was like in the seventies and they were like making
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 2: all these breakthroughs, but like in mass. And suddenly it
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 2: was like, you know, I was at ABC news and
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 2: it was like, it was like the men were there thinking,
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 2: Oh my God, like now they don't have to go
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 2: to the bar after like the girls are right there
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 2: down the hall. And like, you didn't have to go
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 2: to happy hour. It was just, they didn't know how
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 2: to behave. And we, we didn't know any different. Right.
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 2: Like there was a lot of touching and inappropriate talk
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 2: and fondling and handling and like, right.
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 4: We'd be like, I do see an unfortunate flip side
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 4: of what's gone down.
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, the nineties was brutal women today. They would
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 2: young girls today, if they were going into that workforce,
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, they would faint. I think something that somebody
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 2: that no one wants to talk about, but I do
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 2: think it's true. And I've heard people.
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 4: Tell me is unfortunately now it's like, if you're going
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 4: to hire someone and you're in a, Maybe you have a,
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 4: you know, financial whatever with mostly guys. You're going to almost,
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 4: you know, 10 years ago, you would have picked the woman.
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 4: Now you're like, I can't control these fuckers 24-7.
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 4: And even though you're the better candidate, Jennifer.
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 2: Right, right.
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 4: I mean, I wonder if I, and God forbid you're
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 4: like attractive and stuff.
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, that's because we still live in this world
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 2: where men are in charge.
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 4: When it was like the Barbie movie. But not even that,
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 4: but like with. Reverse.
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 4: But like my friend works at HR and it's like
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 4: literally the only way that a company will not get
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 4: in trouble.
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 4: If something sexually happens is if the man and the woman,
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 4: providing it's hetero, man and the woman. We're both hired
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 4: the exact same day. They had the exact same position.
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 4: They made the exact amount. If they fuck, company's okay.
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 2: But if one, well, what if they got together, but
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 2: then one of them complained?
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 4: Even if it was mutual, if they break up, then
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 4: the subordinate can just say it wasn't.
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I met my husband at work. We
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 2: were the same level. So now what you have to
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 2: do is you have to— He was actually a little
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 2: above me.
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 4: Okay, so now if that was today, and you'd have
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 4: to go together to HR and you'd have to sign
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 4: a thing saying, I absolutely want to fuck this man. Like,
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 4: I am willing, even though he was here a day
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 4: longer than me.
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 2: Even though he makes this much more. I will level
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 2: up ahead of me.
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 4: And then oftentimes I ask my friend in HR, she goes,
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 4: and I go, what do you tell? And she goes,
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 4: I advise you. the senior person, unless you think. like
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 4: you're going to marry this person, you should not do it.
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 4: Which is a bummer because that's where people met your spouse.
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 4: You meet this spouse at work and now everyone's so afraid.
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 4: So it's like that's the other flip kind of bummer
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 4: side of it too.
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 2: The pendulum has definitely swung way far in the other direction.
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 2: But I mean, there needed to be a correction.
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 4: Carol, let everyone know if they're not following you already
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 4: online what you're up to and where they can follow you.
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 2: Um, well, I'm still on Instagram and I'm, so it's
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 2: your name. Yeah. It's just my name. Okay, great.
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 4: I mean, she has her two books.
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 2: I have my third. I'm very, I'm in a, I, um,
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 2: I'm just into a really, uh, good place. I mean,
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 2: I'm so, uh, it's just a great, um, feeling to
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 2: have made it almost, right? Like you just made it.
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 2: Like I'm turning 60 and people are just freaking out.
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 2: You look amazing. You look gorgeous. And it's like, they
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 2: don't tell you all the fun things about getting older.
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 2: Like you're still like, You know, you could be 60
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 2: and still be a dumb bitch, right? Like that saying
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 2: that one of the other podcasters, she said.
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 4: You can really don't appreciate talking about me like this.
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But you have so much wisdom and context. And
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 2: if you still have a childlike wonderment and curiosity, which
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 2: I do, it's great. Like, it's so much fun being... Older.
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 2: It's like when you were 11 and you really wanted
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 2: to be older and you wanted to be 13. And
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 2: why did we want to be as kids want to
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 2: be older? Now I get it. It's really cool to
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 2: be older. That's cool.
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 4: I like getting older too. Carol, thank you so much.
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 2: Every used car has a story.
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: Some sellers tell you everything.
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 4: Some leave out the spicy chapters.
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 1: Before you buy, check the car's history with cartel.ie. Don't
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 1: buy the story, check it.