Latest / Becker’s Healthcare Podcast / Building Better Patient Experiences with Alan Dubovsky

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Building Better Patient Experiences with Alan Dubovsky · Becker’s Healthcare Podcast

• 0:02
  - There's a small circle of people who truly
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  - understand what it takes to lead a health
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  - system right now. The decisions are enormous.
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  - The variables are constantly shifting, and the stakes
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  - of getting a call wrong don't stay contained.
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  - That's not a complaint. It's a structural reality.
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  - And it's why the most effective c suite
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  - leaders are deliberate about where they go to
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  - pressure test their thinking.
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  - Becker's fourteenth annual CEO and CFO roundtable
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  - brings together more than 1,500
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  - executive level attendees
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  - and nearly 400 speakers for four days built
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  - around growth, financial sustainability,
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  - workforce strategy, and the leadership questions that don't
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  - have easy answers.
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  - Join us November second through the fifth in
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  - Chicago.
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  - For the agenda and event details,
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  - visit beckershospitalreview.com
• 0:47
  - and click on the events tab in the
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  - upper right.
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  - Hello, everyone. I'm Rick Evans, and welcome to
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  - the Becker's,
• 0:53
  - health care podcast.
• 0:55
  - And today,
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  - I'm gonna be joined by Alan Dubovsky.
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  - Alan is the vice president and chief patient
• 1:02
  - experience officer at Cedars Sinai,
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  - out in California.
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  - Appreciate you being with us today, Alan. One
• 1:10
  - of the things that,
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  - you know, we are doing with these podcasts
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  - is there's a lot of expertise around the
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  - country,
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  - in patient experience. We've got really seasoned professionals
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  - who are strategic guides for their organization.
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  - And in these podcasts, we're highlighting some of
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  - those leaders. You are absolutely one of those
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  - strategic leaders and thought leaders around the country.
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  - And this is an opportunity for our listeners
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  - to hear,
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  - you know, how patient experience is approached
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  - and,
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  - how great systems like Cedars Sinai
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  - are making a difference for their patients in
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  - a in a very real way every single
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  - day. So, Alan, thanks for joining, today. And
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  - if you could just briefly
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  - introduce
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  - us to yourself and the scope of your
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  - of your role at Cedars Sinai.
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  - Happy to. Well, first of all, thank you,
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  - Rick.
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  - Any time that I spend with you is
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  - always time well spent, and I so appreciate
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  - the invitation. And
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  - I should say the, the respect is very
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  - mutual here. You've been such a leader in
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  - this industry for so many years. So,
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  - I think the idea of this podcast is
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  - great, and the conversations have been so interesting
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  - so far. I hope we can do the
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  - same now.
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  - So, yes, again,
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  - Alan Dubovsky. I've been at Cedars Sinai for
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  - coming up on ten years next month, which
• 2:27
  - is a little hard to believe.
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  - A decade flew by, as they tend to
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  - do the older we get.
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  - But I've been in this field of patient
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  - experience now for almost twenty years. I've been
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  - in health care administration
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  - my entire career, twenty five plus years,
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  - and
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  - feel very fortunate that I, get to play
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  - in this space every day. It's such an
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  - interesting interesting world
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  - and truth be told, grew up in Atlanta,
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  - Georgia.
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  - Got a phone call from Cedars Sinai ten
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  - years ago that said that they were creating
• 2:58
  - a a position around patient experience and would
• 3:01
  - I be interested. And three months later, moved
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  - the family out to LA, and here we
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  - are.
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  - So the the role and the evolution of
• 3:08
  - it at Cedars, to answer your question, has
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  - been a little bit different than other places.
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  - You know, Cedars Sinai obviously is
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  - very well known for a lot of things
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  - in particular clinical quality,
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  - certainly among the best in the country and
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  - in the world. But patient experience was not
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  - one that they had put a lot of
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  - emphasis and focus on until I arrived. So
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  - over the last ten years, it really has
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  - been building it from, you know, I was
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  - employee number one, to what we have today
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  - in our office of patient experience.
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  - So, you know, operationally, we have four teams
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  - under that umbrella. There's the patient experience team
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  - within that. Obviously, they're sort of typical functions
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  - of data measurement and analytics. We have our
• 3:47
  - training and skill building arm,
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  - all of our project and process improvement work,
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  - and then our programmatic
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  - sort of foundational work. I also oversee our
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  - language services,
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  - our lobby services team. So the front desk,
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  - you know, meet and greet, way finding function,
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  - and then patient advocacy, all of the complaints
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  - and grievance management.
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  - That is now turning into a system function.
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  - You know, we can talk about that, today
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  - or another time, but, you know, Cedars has
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  - gone from one hospital when I started now
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  - to five within the system, and so we're
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  - growing that, obviously.
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  - And I guess the last part of the
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  - introduction would be,
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  - you know,
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  - people sometimes see me bopping around the world
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  - on LinkedIn, and that's because,
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  - a part of my job, a dedicated part
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  - of my job is leading our international patient
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  - experience work
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  - that involves patients that come to The US
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  - to LA for care at Cedars,
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  - but also our partnerships and affiliates around the
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  - world of which we now have quite a
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  - few.
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  - So that's my my day job kind of
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  - summed up a little bit. Thank you, Alan.
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  - And I've been watching your world travels.
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  - You really have covered quite a bit of
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  - ground from what I can see.
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  - Yep. So let's dive into a couple questions.
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  - The first one is, you know, just kinda
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  - how things are going questions. So how are
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  - your,
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  - patient experience metrics tracking this year? You know,
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  - what have been some of the bright spot
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  - successes and maybe some of the challenges you're
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  - facing? Every hospital in America, every system in
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  - America has both of those. So, whatever you'd
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  - be comfortable sharing.
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  - Yeah. You know, there's there's a lot of
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  - benefit to forums like this. One of them
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  - is a little bit of misery loves company,
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  - so I appreciate the nod to... You know,
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  - the things we're going through at Cedars Sinai
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  - are not unique sometimes to just us.
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  - Very, you know, concretely, right, we focus on
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  - a lot of the experience
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  - metrics and and KPIs that most other... Certainly
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  - most other large organizations do.
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  - HCAHPS,
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  - under the CMS umbrella is something we spend
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  - a lot of time focusing on both in
• 5:50
  - terms of scores, but then also how that
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  - connects to our overall star rating.
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  - We partner with Press Ganey, Qualtrics,
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  - now to
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  - do a lot more in terms of real
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  - time measurement. And we've gone through an evolution
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  - over the years in terms of what we
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  - track and what we set as goals,
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  - which has brought us to today. So the
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  - answer to the question is,
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  - yes, we are focused on those big picture
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  - overall rating, likelihood to recommend pieces, but we
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  - really
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  - are...
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  - Our main focus areas are the specific domains
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  - or or, I guess, pain points,
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  - within each of the surveys. So in particular,
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  - we, you know, do our whole statistical analysis
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  - to understand which are the most important.
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  - For us, some of our biggest channel... Opportune...
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  - Biggest wins, I should say,
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  - but tied to opportunity areas have been around
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  - things like nurse communication improvements, medication communication improvements,
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  - and in particular, discharge and,
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  - the discharge experience improvement.
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  - The wins have come in the nursing and
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  - medication piece.
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  - You'll appreciate this, and I'm sure a lot
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  - of our listeners will. We moved up last
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  - year
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  - two to three percentage points in each of
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  - those, which is incredibly significant, and that was
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  - very much powered by
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  - great partnerships between the patient experience team and
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  - others.
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  - So very proud of those and seeing great
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  - movement there. You know, what we are seeing,
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  - hands down, one of the the number one
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  - challenges at our hospital, like most other places,
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  - is just we are bursting at the seams
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  - in terms of patient volume.
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  - And so
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  - we can and do... Try to do all
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  - the right things in how we communicate and
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  - what we do, and the clinical care is
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  - outstanding, but really tough to improve things like,
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  - you know, discharge and flow and environment and
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  - noise and and cleanliness and all those things
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  - when you are, you know, running at a
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  - 110%
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  - capacity every day.
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  - But those are some of our opportunities.
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  - They are on the on the to do
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  - list for the year. But,
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  - you know, definitely a challenge and definitely
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  - something that we're all working on. Those are
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  - the things that keep me awake at night
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  - is how do you do that in the
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  - face of just being so busy.
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  - Yeah. And I I saw a couple of
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  - things you said I think are really important
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  - for listeners to take into, you know, account.
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  - One is you mentioned an increase in a
• 8:07
  - domain of two to three points in a
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  - year. You know, a lot of people who
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  - aren't in our business will say, like, two
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  - point. That doesn't sound like much. That puts
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  - you at, like, the top decile for rate
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  - of improvement. I mean, the patient experience metrics
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  - move a little differently than some of the
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  - other metrics we're familiar with. So so congratulations.
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  - I know a lot of organizations that would
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  - really be thrilled to see their nurse domain
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  - go up, by that much. So congratulations. And
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  - then you also mentioned,
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  - so common, and it's important for our operating
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  - colleagues to understand this.
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  - I'll I'll be blunt.
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  - The greatest HCAHPS killer
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  - is a
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  - wait in the ED for a bed.
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  - And I can remember looking at data from
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  - my organizations that
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  - folks that had that experience give the hospital
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  - one, two stars. Those who did not, four
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  - stars or more Right. Or five. Right? So
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  - there's a... That weight in the EDs can
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  - be really, really... And to your point, the
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  - hospital's full. It's not like we intend for
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  - people to wait. It's really,
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  - really hard to crack that nut. So,
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  - you know, thanks for sharing it, and I
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  - bet anyone who's listening in... Around the country
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  - is is gonna say, yep. We we get
• 9:17
  - that. It's really hard.
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  - Thank you for that. Let's let's,
• 9:21
  - pivot to the side a little bit. What's
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  - the theme that you keep hearing from patients
• 9:26
  - that maybe doesn't make, a dashboard?
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  - Yeah. You know, I'll, I'll try to be
• 9:31
  - brief in my answer because I I run
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  - the risk of always going on my soapbox
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  - on this one. I I so appreciate the
• 9:38
  - importance of
• 9:39
  - standardized surveys and the, you know, what places
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  - like CMS and others have done and the
• 9:44
  - vendors in particular.
• 9:45
  - Those are great, and they live on our
• 9:47
  - dashboards, and we focus on them and everything.
• 9:49
  - You know, there are many times when that
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  - isn't
• 9:52
  - capturing the full story of how our patients
• 9:54
  - are feeling and what the experience is like.
• 9:56
  - So the question is such an interesting one
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  - because
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  - to me, at at its very core,
• 10:01
  - health care has become so complicated to navigate
• 10:04
  - as a patient.
• 10:05
  - Having gone through a personal health journey myself
• 10:08
  - over the last five or six years, I
• 10:09
  - can... You know, I work in a hospital
• 10:11
  - and I know all these people and it's
• 10:13
  - difficult.
• 10:14
  - So to me, the answer to the question
• 10:16
  - would be, we don't talk about sort of
• 10:18
  - the ease,
• 10:19
  - by which patients
• 10:21
  - have to work their way through the system
• 10:23
  - very often. That is a tough thing to
• 10:24
  - measure.
• 10:25
  - Obviously, you can literally ask the question, right,
• 10:28
  - how easy was this? But
• 10:30
  - it's a very lot of nebulous question, first
• 10:32
  - of all, to patients. Second of all, not
• 10:34
  - many places do ask that. There aren't a
• 10:36
  - lot of benchmarks.
• 10:37
  - So, yes, we can ask about, did we
• 10:39
  - communicate? Yes. You can ask about wait times.
• 10:41
  - Yes. You can ask about, you know, fill
• 10:43
  - in the blank.
• 10:44
  - But it's not on our dashboards. We don't
• 10:46
  - talk about it enough. And for me, I
• 10:48
  - feel like, you know, speaking of a nut
• 10:50
  - to crack, like, if that was something we
• 10:53
  - all rallied behind and things just became easier
• 10:55
  - from a scheduling perspective, from a communication perspective,
• 10:59
  - from a I'm now home and need to
• 11:00
  - deal with, like, like, you know, post experience
• 11:04
  - of being in the hospital, the whirlwind, the
• 11:05
  - emotional whirlwind.
• 11:07
  - That's something for me that we talk about.
• 11:09
  - I look forward as an industry to spending
• 11:11
  - more time measuring it, and then it should
• 11:13
  - be on the dashboard.
• 11:14
  - Yeah. And, again, I so appreciate that you
• 11:17
  - are not the only one who's been seeing
• 11:19
  - this in the podcast.
• 11:20
  - You know, the surveys focus on episodes.
• 11:23
  - Yep. But patients experience journeys.
• 11:26
  - There's a before and an after. And you
• 11:28
  - you mentioned, like, getting your prescription filled, getting
• 11:30
  - a callback from the doctor's office, getting an
• 11:32
  - appointment.
• 11:33
  - All those things are really, really important. And,
• 11:36
  - you know, again, I think if there's a
• 11:37
  - theme to,
• 11:38
  - you know, the the the commiseration of patient
• 11:41
  - experience officers around the country, and you and
• 11:43
  - I were in a group just the other
• 11:44
  - day sponsored by Becker's that we were talking
• 11:46
  - about this, is that,
• 11:49
  - we've gotta be able to measure longitudinally,
• 11:52
  - and and we've gotta make this simpler and
• 11:54
  - more integrated because our patients are telling us,
• 11:57
  - you know, what we're doing now is not
• 11:58
  - quite, hitting the mark. So there... There's a
• 12:01
  - lot of work to be done there. I
• 12:02
  - totally agree.
• 12:05
  - Budgets.
• 12:06
  - So,
• 12:08
  - again,
• 12:08
  - from personal experience, I think I've been in
• 12:10
  - health care thirty years and had to make
• 12:12
  - a budget cut 25 of them.
• 12:15
  - And it feels like that environment has gotten
• 12:17
  - even tougher,
• 12:18
  - with, Medicaid cuts and other cuts that are
• 12:21
  - coming down the pipe, grants being discontinued.
• 12:23
  - Lot of a lot of stuff happening.
• 12:26
  - How has your team adapted and kept its
• 12:29
  - self together? Is focus... How have you been
• 12:32
  - able to maintain
• 12:33
  - a patient experience focus through what are certainly
• 12:36
  - very tough budget times for all of us?
• 12:39
  - Yeah. I mean, it's, you know, it's one
• 12:41
  - of those things where I thought it was
• 12:43
  - difficult five, ten years ago, and I would
• 12:45
  - give anything to go back to those times.
• 12:46
  - I mean, that sort of feels progressively more
• 12:49
  - so every year.
• 12:50
  - It is a great question, and I guess,
• 12:51
  - you know, I I hope the answer
• 12:54
  - is is a one size fits all answer.
• 12:56
  - But my my philosophy around this work has
• 12:58
  - changed a lot. Right? Twenty years ago, when
• 13:00
  - we were doing this work,
• 13:02
  - it was enough to say this is the
• 13:03
  - right thing to do, and we would get
• 13:05
  - budgets, and we would get money, and we
• 13:06
  - would get support. I don't think it's that
• 13:08
  - that opinion has changed. Right? Everyone still feels
• 13:10
  - it's the right thing to do, but
• 13:12
  - I understand why
• 13:14
  - CFOs and CEOs and, you know, Deckers is
• 13:17
  - a great example. You you sit around those
• 13:19
  - incredible rooms full of amazing people, and
• 13:21
  - they don't want to make these cuts. They
• 13:23
  - don't want to do those things, but they
• 13:24
  - don't really have a choice.
• 13:26
  - So my philosophy and and how I've tried
• 13:28
  - to lead our experience team at Cedars
• 13:31
  - has been, I think if you build a
• 13:33
  - patient experience program that is a stand alone
• 13:35
  - program with just your metrics and just your
• 13:38
  - action plan and just your goals,
• 13:40
  - it's very easy to look at that and
• 13:42
  - say, okay. Love the idea, but it's, you
• 13:45
  - know, not right now.
• 13:47
  - If you integrate yourself with so many other
• 13:50
  - parts of the organization,
• 13:53
  - operations is a great example,
• 13:55
  - it becomes very,
• 13:56
  - it becomes much easier to explain, justify, and
• 13:59
  - prove why this work matters. So a great
• 14:01
  - example for me is, you know, we have
• 14:03
  - an action plan every year around experience.
• 14:05
  - We try very hard for every single thing
• 14:07
  - that's on that plan to have some sort
• 14:09
  - of link or, frankly, even a data correlating
• 14:12
  - point to something else that is on somebody
• 14:15
  - else's list. So when we are working on
• 14:18
  - discharge improvements, not only are we working on
• 14:20
  - how happy patients are with that experience,
• 14:23
  - we're also working on improved flow, getting patients
• 14:26
  - up by 11AM, decreasing wait times, all those
• 14:29
  - things.
• 14:30
  - So, you know, that's helped us a lot.
• 14:33
  - A great quick example of this is with
• 14:36
  - no... In
• 14:37
  - no intended disrespect to others, you know, when
• 14:39
  - we had built the structure and COVID hit,
• 14:42
  - so many patient experience programs were put on
• 14:44
  - pause and thrown somewhere else.
• 14:46
  - We were very lucky that our organization was
• 14:49
  - like, no. Keep doing exactly what you're doing
• 14:51
  - because we know it'll actually benefit.
• 14:53
  - And I think that for me was a
• 14:54
  - great sign that we had integrated ourselves so
• 14:57
  - well that even when operational challenges come our
• 14:59
  - way,
• 15:00
  - leadership still feels like the p x function
• 15:02
  - is so important.
• 15:04
  - That's a great example. And,
• 15:06
  - you know, again, there's there's a lot of
• 15:08
  - wisdom in what you just shared.
• 15:09
  - I know,
• 15:11
  - in my experience, if we had if we
• 15:12
  - had an intervention in patient experience,
• 15:15
  - we always thought, what else is it gonna
• 15:17
  - help with? Is it gonna help reduce readmissions?
• 15:19
  - Is it gonna help reduce patient falls? Is
• 15:21
  - it gonna help reduce, infections? Is it going
• 15:23
  - to increase
• 15:24
  - patient,
• 15:25
  - understanding of their care plan and and the
• 15:27
  - ability to follow-up? If it didn't hit those
• 15:30
  - bogeys, we didn't even put it on the
• 15:31
  - list. Yeah. So, you know, that integration is
• 15:34
  - important.
• 15:35
  - And then, I'll say something and you... I
• 15:37
  - hope you'll agree with me. Again, Cedars Sinai
• 15:40
  - has invested in patient experience. They know it's
• 15:43
  - an important business outcome, not just a nice
• 15:46
  - thing to do. Your role is evidence of
• 15:48
  - that. You mentioned you have plans. It's not
• 15:51
  - like you're feeling your way. It's not cross
• 15:52
  - your fingers and smile more. You have a
• 15:54
  - plan.
• 15:55
  - And, you know, one of the things that
• 15:57
  - that a little bit of a soapbox that
• 15:59
  - that I I I... As long as people
• 16:01
  - are listening, I'll I'll say it.
• 16:03
  - Investing in patient experience matters. Now we all
• 16:06
  - have to make cuts. We all have to
• 16:07
  - make sacrifices,
• 16:08
  - but not investing
• 16:10
  - or totally eliminating that investment.
• 16:12
  - There are bad sort of negative consequences down
• 16:15
  - the line when that's not done.
• 16:18
  - So being flexible like you said, but also,
• 16:21
  - you know, we have to have something dedicated
• 16:23
  - to this if we say it's important. Right?
• 16:25
  - Agreed. Fully agreed.
• 16:27
  - Yeah.
• 16:29
  - CMS is gonna be
• 16:31
  - announcing some of the results from the new
• 16:35
  - HCAHPS survey. We'll call it HCAHPS two point
• 16:37
  - o. We've been collecting that data for a
• 16:39
  - while, but it's not been publicly reported. It's
• 16:41
  - about to,
• 16:43
  - perhaps in a couple of weeks. I'm just...
• 16:45
  - Do you have anything you're waiting to see
• 16:47
  - when that new data comes out? Anything you're
• 16:49
  - curious about?
• 16:51
  - Yeah. It's, again, for the sake of brevity,
• 16:53
  - I will say I've I've always appreciated
• 16:56
  - the intent behind
• 16:58
  - what CMS is trying to do with HCAHPS.
• 17:00
  - Obviously, there's pros and cons to any standardized
• 17:03
  - survey. It's it's like anything standardized that doesn't
• 17:06
  - work all the time, but it works enough
• 17:07
  - at the time.
• 17:08
  - I think it was time for a change.
• 17:10
  - I appreciate some of the changes that they
• 17:12
  - made certainly,
• 17:13
  - over the last few years around the modality,
• 17:15
  - right, the ability to do the surveys electronically,
• 17:18
  - the ability to make them ideally a little
• 17:20
  - bit more patient friendly to fill out. You
• 17:23
  - know, for us at this point, the... Probably
• 17:24
  - the the biggest question mark is around this,
• 17:29
  - outpatient surgery experience piece.
• 17:32
  - That's huge. Try to... Not new to us
• 17:34
  - in terms of surveying. We've always paid attention
• 17:36
  - to this. But it's a world that
• 17:39
  - most experienced programs haven't really
• 17:41
  - focused on. Like, when you go to conferences
• 17:43
  - as a as a proxy,
• 17:45
  - we're talking about inpatient experience. We're talking about
• 17:47
  - ED, and we're talking about clinics.
• 17:50
  - Ambulatory surgery or, you know, outpatient surgery,
• 17:53
  - we've measured it for a while. The leaders
• 17:55
  - are very engaged, but it hasn't been a
• 17:56
  - focus area.
• 17:58
  - And that's obviously become sort of a big
• 18:00
  - change. And I think
• 18:01
  - what that looks like... What the scores look
• 18:03
  - like now that a bunch of people started
• 18:05
  - measuring that weren't measuring it before, benchmarks,
• 18:08
  - no one's favorite topic, but that's a real
• 18:10
  - thing. Like, how do you start to stack
• 18:12
  - up? And I guess the last part of
• 18:14
  - that is, you know, it's such a compact,
• 18:17
  - even more so
• 18:18
  - than in the clinic space.
• 18:20
  - The range is so narrow that the tiniest
• 18:23
  - move... You know, it's very hard to explain
• 18:24
  - to people how you can be at a
• 18:25
  - 92%
• 18:26
  - score and be in the bottom of the,
• 18:28
  - you know, the pack. Mhmm.
• 18:30
  - And so, yeah, the answer to the question
• 18:32
  - from my perspective is I'm so curious
• 18:35
  - how that looks, how people react, whether or
• 18:37
  - not that becomes a focus area.
• 18:39
  - There's more questions than answers on that, but
• 18:41
  - I guess we'll know sooner than later.
• 18:44
  - Yeah. Yeah. I agree. And where's the world
• 18:46
  - going? Ambulatory.
• 18:49
  - Mhmm. So we sort of gotta more than
• 18:51
  - follow the puck. We gotta get out ahead
• 18:53
  - of it a little bit. Yep. Thank you
• 18:55
  - for that.
• 18:57
  - Another question, and I I know you've done
• 18:58
  - some work in this area. How would you
• 19:00
  - describe...
• 19:01
  - Or how do you think about the know...
• 19:03
  - And you did talk about this a little
• 19:05
  - bit earlier, sort of where patient experience ends
• 19:08
  - and where consumer
• 19:09
  - experience begins. You wanna
• 19:12
  - tell us your thinking on that? Yeah. I
• 19:14
  - do think,
• 19:16
  - the the way I think about this and,
• 19:19
  - you know, obviously, I think you can explain
• 19:21
  - it either way. I think a lot of
• 19:22
  - organizations
• 19:23
  - call it one or the other. They call
• 19:24
  - it both. I'm not sure the
• 19:27
  - the terminology or the nomenclature matters as much.
• 19:31
  - I just think in today's world, you know,
• 19:33
  - there's more than enough to go around.
• 19:35
  - Most places, if they are, you know, busy,
• 19:38
  - they are very busy. So it's not like
• 19:39
  - we're competing,
• 19:41
  - necessarily
• 19:42
  - for the same patients
• 19:44
  - in the way that we were many years
• 19:45
  - ago. Now what we're all competing about is
• 19:48
  - who can do it better and who can
• 19:49
  - make the patient feel more appreciated, more heard,
• 19:52
  - more fill in the blank.
• 19:54
  - And so to me, consumerism,
• 19:57
  - if I'm honest, ten years ago, I was
• 19:59
  - like, I'm I'm not sure that's the right
• 20:00
  - way of thinking about it. And today, I
• 20:02
  - feel like it's such an important way of
• 20:04
  - thinking around experience work.
• 20:06
  - So to me, they're a bit interchangeable.
• 20:08
  - I think how we measure it is a
• 20:10
  - bit more focused on patient experience.
• 20:12
  - I think when we're building projects and process
• 20:15
  - improvement,
• 20:16
  - work,
• 20:17
  - we're thinking about the consumer side of this.
• 20:19
  - Like, it is very much a service. People's
• 20:22
  - expectations
• 20:23
  - have gone up, understandably so. It's 2026.
• 20:26
  - Like, this should not be, you know, complicated.
• 20:30
  - And, again, not to use COVID. I feel
• 20:31
  - like I haven't used COVID as an example
• 20:33
  - in years, and it's the second time I've
• 20:34
  - done it today. But that was a moment
• 20:37
  - where,
• 20:37
  - you know, we had always said, things have
• 20:39
  - to be this way. This is how hospitals
• 20:41
  - run. COVID happened, and we've managed to figure
• 20:43
  - it out quickly. And our consumers were like,
• 20:46
  - oh, see. You can be more efficient and
• 20:49
  - better.
• 20:50
  - And rightfully so, they now refuse to go
• 20:53
  - back,
• 20:54
  - in time. And so,
• 20:55
  - yeah, for me, it's... Again, it it blends.
• 20:58
  - I don't think there's a very finite line
• 20:59
  - between the two,
• 21:01
  - and I really think thinking about the consumer
• 21:03
  - side is so important,
• 21:04
  - like any other service industry.
• 21:07
  - And in some ways, I mean, again, you
• 21:09
  - you alluded to the time when you almost,
• 21:10
  - like, cluster chest when somebody would refer to
• 21:13
  - a patient as a customer. But I think
• 21:15
  - thinking them... Of them as customers actually gives
• 21:17
  - them more respect and dignity. It implies that
• 21:20
  - they have choices, that they have that they
• 21:22
  - have expectations. I mean, that's not insulting. I
• 21:25
  - think that's actually enhancing the importance of patient
• 21:28
  - experience.
• 21:29
  - Correct.
• 21:30
  - Another question about,
• 21:32
  - sort of blending things. How,
• 21:35
  - how much of patient experience
• 21:37
  - is employee
• 21:38
  - experience? How do you think about that at
• 21:40
  - Cedars Sinai?
• 21:42
  - You know, so there... There's a lot of
• 21:44
  - reasons. I'm very grateful from our work at
• 21:46
  - Cedars Sinai. I think one of them is,
• 21:48
  - we have,
• 21:49
  - I feel like I can say this with
• 21:50
  - great confidence and with data to back it
• 21:52
  - up. Probably one of the strongest
• 21:54
  - employee experiences of of any hospital in the
• 21:57
  - country,
• 21:59
  - continue to perform in the top,
• 22:01
  - ranks in a in a market that is
• 22:03
  - heavily unionized.
• 22:05
  - We continue to be so
• 22:07
  - appreciated,
• 22:08
  - and respected by our employee base
• 22:11
  - that I think the two go hand in
• 22:13
  - hand. I think they go hand in hand
• 22:14
  - anywhere. But for us,
• 22:17
  - our employees know that we care about them,
• 22:19
  - and I'm talking about them like they're the
• 22:21
  - third person. I mean, I feel very cared
• 22:23
  - for constantly at this organization.
• 22:26
  - Makes me want to,
• 22:28
  - do more in every way in my job.
• 22:31
  - And you could say that, you know,
• 22:33
  - being treat... Treated better as an employee makes
• 22:35
  - you want to treat your patients better. It
• 22:37
  - makes you want to do... I mean, it
• 22:38
  - really is sort of a pay it forward
• 22:40
  - concept.
• 22:41
  - Mhmm. I know enough places that struggle with
• 22:43
  - one or the other, and I just... You
• 22:45
  - know, I've hardly ever seen an organization that
• 22:48
  - was exceptional in one and really bad in
• 22:51
  - the other and where it works.
• 22:53
  - So
• 22:54
  - for me,
• 22:55
  - they go hand in hand. For me, it's
• 22:56
  - a very important,
• 22:58
  - I just don't know how you
• 23:00
  - tell people to care
• 23:02
  - about
• 23:03
  - all the parts of the patient experience when
• 23:05
  - they themselves feel like they are not cared
• 23:08
  - for, in so many different ways. And, again,
• 23:10
  - Cedars Sinai absolutely,
• 23:13
  - talks the talk, walks the walk in in
• 23:15
  - all of this. And,
• 23:17
  - yeah, very fortunate that I've I've seen it
• 23:19
  - succeed that way. Everyone's having an experience. Right?
• 23:23
  - Everyone Correct.
• 23:24
  - And and, you know, I'll say this, on
• 23:26
  - a personal note. I mean, I know you.
• 23:28
  - I know your chief nurse.
• 23:30
  - I know your CEO. Like,
• 23:32
  - it's led by all of you at the
• 23:34
  - top. You know, I know how strongly you
• 23:36
  - all believe in that. You do walk the
• 23:38
  - talk there. You're extraordinary leaders in an extraordinary
• 23:41
  - system.
• 23:42
  - I think with that, we're gonna have to
• 23:44
  - bring our conversation to a close. We could've
• 23:46
  - talked about a lot more things, so maybe
• 23:47
  - we'll have another episode, Alan, where we could
• 23:50
  - talk about some of these other things. But,
• 23:51
  - again,
• 23:52
  - a great chief experience officer in you and
• 23:55
  - a wonderful system that the country and world
• 23:57
  - are luck... Lucky to have.
• 23:59
  - And thanks for your time today.
• 24:02
  - Right. Thank you so much, and thanks again
• 24:04
  - for this forum and the invite, and, really
• 24:06
  - appreciate it. Thank you again.