Latest / Embedded / Mental Fitness, Leadership & Sustainable Performance | Embedded Conversations with Samantha Bramley. Ep 5

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Mental Fitness, Leadership & Sustainable Performance | Embedded Conversations with Samantha Bramley. Ep 5 · Embedded

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Welcome to Embedded Conversations, the podcast that explores what it takes to
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embed ideas, innovations and partnerships inside the NHS.
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I'm Scott McKenzie and I work with NHS leaders, commissioners and life science
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companies to change patient pathways for the better.
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This podcast brings those ideas to life through shared stories from people inside
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the system who talk honestly about what works, what doesn't and what it takes
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to embed change in the real world.
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If you're working in, around or with the NHS and you want to understand how
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change really happens, you're in the right place.
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Hi everyone and welcome to the latest edition of the Embedded Podcast,
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where today I am delighted to welcome Samantha Bramley. Good morning, Samantha, how are you?
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Good morning, Scott, and very well and happy Friday. I actually,
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when I was getting organised for this this morning, I had to look back and think,
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how long have I known Samantha? Can you guess? Because I know exactly when I
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first met you, because I checked this morning.
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Oh really? Well, I was working at a clarinet at the time. You were?
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Oh, I'm going to say... We met in Ascot. It was definitely in Ascot.
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It was quite a nice hotel from memory. It was.
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I remember the cup of coffee we had and the exchange we had.
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Time-wise, doesn't time just pass away? I won't say... Was it really? My goodness.
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I don't look a day old, Scott. That's the thing. You don't. I certainly do.
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I've got a lot less hair than I had then is the most noticeable bit.
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But yeah, it's really lovely to welcome you and I'm delighted that you're here.
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Oh, well, no, thank you for inviting me. My pleasure's mine.
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Well, for those that don't know Samantha, Samantha's a leadership coach, a facilitator.
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And I would say your biggest thing is you're a real advocate of mental fitness.
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And you've got a career, really. We were talking just before we started to record.
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You've been dedicated to helping individuals and organizations really unlock
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I would say three things clarity alignment and that leads to of course the thing
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that everybody wants which is sustainable success so through your work and you
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know Samantha helps leaders and teams cut through the noise connect with the real purpose,
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and find that balance between really high performance but also your own well-being.
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I know that Samantha believes firmly that leadership should be driven by heart,
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defined by clarity, and then powered by that mental fitness.
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So we're going to explore Samantha's journey this morning. We're going to explore
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the challenges that she sees in modern leadership and insights that she's gathered along the way.
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So I'm really looking forward to talking to you, Samantha, and seeing what you've
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got. So a nice gentle question to start. Then I've got, I think,
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some tougher questions for you, but let's see.
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So when you look back what first drew you into leadership coaching that facilitation
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piece and of course the mental fitness work,
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was there a moment or was it an experience something that made you say this
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is what i absolutely want to devote myself to,
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oh that's a really great question and i just know that there's going to be a
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number of questions today that are going to really challenged me and put me in comfort zone.
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So you know what, Scott, there was not just a single aha moment.
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There were many tiny moments along the way.
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The one, I guess, appraisal very early in my career in med tech.
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Really, I think, sets the course. So a former boss who was an exceptional leader,
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kind of gave me some feedback at that year-end review and said to me,
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Sam, I really think these are your core strengths and show you the number of them.
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And some people across the organization said, do you know what,
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Sam, we always choose to follow you.
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And I thought, oh gosh, well let's not walk through fire, hey?
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But regardless of the geography or my line management or challenges,
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People generally said they followed me because I win their hearts and minds.
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And I just thought, wow, that's so personal, but so beautifully put.
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I couldn't have given that feedback myself. So this same leader also noticed
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my coaching abilities. At the time, I didn't have any coaching qualifications.
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It's something I naturally did from nursing, bringing in new nurses right the
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way through my career in life sciences.
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But they encouraged me i guess to gain that formal qualification if i was interested yeah,
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that was the pivotal moment for me it made me realize that there was more to
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my role but also to my strengths about that empowerment in others and help people
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thrive and i guess from that moment on,
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i just knew that this is what i really wanted what you wanted to do yeah,
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that's brilliant i I mean, I always think it's really insightful to kind of
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look back at where we came from because it gives you a real sense of the person sat in front of you.
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So, yeah, good on you for spotting the opportunity and then following it because
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it is your passion. There's no doubt about that.
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Yeah, for sure. Thank you, Scott. I appreciate that.
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I want to dig a bit deeper into the bit from my introduction where you,
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because I've known you for 10 years now and we kind of catch up regularly along the way.
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So I know from the conversations, you know, you see leadership being driven
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by heart, defined by clarity, powered by that mental fitness.
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Can you unpack each of those components and what they mean for you,
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especially how that mental fitness plays a real role in effective leadership, please?
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Yeah, absolutely. So for me, that driven by heart is the empathy and integrity.
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Right. So seeing people, understanding them, creating that psychological safety
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so that they feel empowered to contribute fully, whether that be an individual,
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a team or an organization. Yeah.
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I think that heart is that empathy and integrity side.
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When I think about the clarity clarity is really important because it's having
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that very crystal clear sense of purpose and direction,
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now that purpose and direction can come from a company in terms of it's the
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big goal yeah when you look at your uh 10-year plan it's it's setting that goal right,
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but leaders who communicate clearly really reduce ambiguity they're able to
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build trust, they're able to align teams and everything around that shared goal and mission.
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So you need to have the heart, but you also need the clarity.
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Now, what you mentioned earlier around that mental fitness, it's true,
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Scott, right? It's so important to me because I believe this is the engine behind everything. Yes.
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Because mental fitness, I see, is very different to mental health. So let me explain why.
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I'm a trained mental health first aider, and I've seen firsthand how mental
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health is often framed, sometimes negatively, let's be honest, with stigma attached.
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However, mental fitness is proactive and it's positive.
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So you wouldn't just go and run, I guess, a marathon without putting the training
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in. The same can be said for our brain, for leadership, for anything that we
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desire to do in life that needs that mental capacity. You've got to train your mind.
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Now, my friend and business partner, I do some work for a company called Headway,
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and he describes mental fitness in such a beautiful way. I'm going to give you his quote. Thank you.
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He believes it's getting your mind to work for you, not against you.
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So FOR is a very simple acronym that stands for focus, develop optimism and resilience.
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So who wouldn't want that, I guess, professionally and personally in their life, you know?
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So that heart, that clarity and that mental fitness, for me,
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as a leadership coach, I think you've got to play in all those elements.
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I couldn't agree more. it's like when i was listening to you there you took
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me back to my days in industry so i was really fortunate that i worked for a wonderful,
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um leader and i'm not going to name him because it's not fair and i haven't
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got approval to do that so we'll not do that but,
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he sold me some of the worst targets i ever took on and somehow i always believed
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that we'd get there and you know what invariably we did because he had the clarity he
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had complete integrity he had heart and fundamentally I believed if he shouted charge,
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and we were running towards the edge of the cliff we'd have jumped because I'd
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have absolutely believed he'd have sorted out the landing for us and that's what great leaders
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really come across like and what they look like yeah it was it was you just
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took me straight back there um if I,
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move on we all have.
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Well, we'll all come across organisations that have barriers.
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What are the most common ones that you see when you're trying to help them achieve
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the alignment and that sustainable success?
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What are the common barriers that you see that get in the way and how do you help them overcome?
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Yeah, another pack to punt question. Thanks for that, Scott.
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Um so let me think so when i work with organizations i i guess i see a few recurring
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barriers to alignment and also sustainable success so all right okay,
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if i take self-awareness as the first so leaders i believe that are not fully
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aware of their own blind spots or i guess emotional triggers can unintentionally create fiction,
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so they react instead of responding, and that causes a ripple effect in the team.
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If they don't locate themselves, how can they help locate others? Right. Very simply put.
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The next I see is around people in team management.
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Challenges around delegation, trust, motivation.
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These can all leave, I guess, teams feeling disconnected and unclear on the
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priorities. So this comes back to that clarity piece we spoke about. Yes.
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Yeah. Then you've got communication and influence.
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This is a huge one, Scott. So without open dialogue and that psychological safety,
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teams, I guess, hold back because misunderstandings grow and then innovation then starts to stall.
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Right. Okay. Because people aren't able to play in that space.
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So they're kind of the top ones, but the ones that kind of form in parallel
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with that, if you don't mind walking with me on this journey for a minute longer.
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Go for it. It's really around the strategic thinking and execution.
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So I have seen many leaders, including myself over the time.
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Get often caught out in day-to-day demands because we sometimes lose the sight
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of the bigger picture. Yeah, definitely.
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Definitely. And then the result of that, well, teams then drift in different directions.
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The progress is then slow, or should I say, wade through treacle.
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Their adaptability to change then creates barriers.
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Then you've got resistance that's there with a personal or cultural preventing new ideas.
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So I guess the second part of your question was, how do we overcome the barriers
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or how do I overcome the barriers?
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Well, I help the leaders and organizations build that awareness,
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that self-awareness, the organizational awareness by strengthening emotional intelligence.
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So offer courses, training, education, coaching, fostering trust and opening the communication.
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And then at the same time this is where we gain the clarity so it's clarify
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their strategy i love i absolutely love you right luke so you're giving me a
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trip down memory lane today,
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um and i mean that in a really positive way and that,
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i remember again in my days as a line manager and i always had that in mind
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you have to have clarity the team need to know.
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What we're what we're doing how we're doing it who's responsible the outcome
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we're expected to deliver and how we're going to evaluate as we go,
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and it came it was one of the things that i'd learned way way way back at the
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start of my sales career about that clarity and it came from alice in wonderland of all things,
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and it's the point when alice is walking down the road and i can't remember
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the character whether it was owl or rabbit or she saw one of them,
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and she was at a fork in road she could go left or she could go right,
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and she looks at the other character and says which route should i take the
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the question that came back where are you going,
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well i don't know well then it's not going to matter which route you take if
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you if you don't know where you're going the route then doesn't matter so i
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i love the fact that you keep anchoring us back,
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to the to the clarity because it is absolutely for me the most important thing
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if you don't know where you're going.
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It's almost pointless to set off. I love that, Scott. And I love how you're
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bringing in a Disney movie. That's a Disney movie.
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It's always so memorable, right?
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But once you've got that clarity, it doesn't matter where you are,
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whether it's MedTech, Life Sciences, whether it's a completely different company,
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you're then able to align the right priorities.
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It's often one of the things that I talk about when I'm working with pharma,
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MedTech and device companies is,
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don't talk to me about the product talk to me about the problem that you solve
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give you the clarity of purpose that you solve for the nhs and then we've got
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something that we can work with yeah.
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Yeah it's so true it's so true so i guess the the only thing that i that i want
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to make clear here in terms of what i do is,
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it's about addressing both the human and the strategic sides of knowledge okay
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because you can't have one without the other i mean there There are people that
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do one without the other.
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But the most successful are those that sit in both camps. So,
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aligning isn't just achieved, right?
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It's sustainable, okay? And when that happens, organisations don't just perform.
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They are thriving, including the people within it.
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And that's what I guess everyone's looking for, is happiness,
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impact, sustainability.
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That's where I was. back in the very first industry company that I worked with.
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What you've just described is exactly where I was.
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If I move us on, because one of the things that really strikes me here is that
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there is often a real tension between pushing for really high performance but
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also maintaining that well-being.
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How do you help individuals or teams strike that healthy balance?
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And are there particular practices and mindsets that you find especially effective?
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Yeah, good question, Scott. So it starts with redefining what high performance really is. Right, okay.
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Um, if, if we were speaking to athletes, their high performance would probably be very different. Yes.
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Somebody like yourself and me in a room, right? I'm not a honed athlete.
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You can see that. Anybody looking at me can see that. I don't know.
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You've got, you've got, you're in your golf and you're able to tee off and complete and enjoy.
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But, you know, for me, I call it around sustainable performance,
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which means we really need to have that consistent focus.
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And consistent energy over time, not burnout.
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So by using the self-awareness tools around stress triggers,
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prioritizations, aligning to your own values,
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mental fitness practices, such as, I guess, mindfulness, reflective pauses, structured check-ins,
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scheduling our energy throughout the day.
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There's always tasks that we find more difficult.
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Normally or ordinarily we put it off right until the last minute and then we're
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really stressed and to get it done it gets done but if we'd have had a bit more
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time it probably would have been done better yeah agreed,
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so i guess the coaching and team development programs that i do i i really help,
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and i call people leaders and deliberately i'm i'm wanting to call out that
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a leader isn't You're just somebody that has a team reporting to them.
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And leader is somebody that can inspire themselves, that in turn inspires others.
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So my children are leaders. My neighbor's a leader.
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The dog, unfortunately, at times.
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So, you know, I help people really unlock the balance and performance along
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with their well-being and create structured reflection points and actionable practices.
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And then the routines that they can build into their day to support their resilience.
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And with teams, it's the same thing.
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How can they be accountable for each other? How can they hold accountability?
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And how can you make it as part of your daily routine?
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So I guess lastly, leaders...
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As all of us as leaders, we need to try and model balance as much as possible.
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Because if we show our teams that setting healthy boundaries and self-care priorities,
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it becomes part of the culture.
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So performance and well-being then can reinforce everything that they're doing.
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It's not a trade-off, it's a synergy.
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It's a great point you make, because I often highlight to a lot of the companies that I work with,
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whether it's pharmametic devices or the GP federations, the general practices,
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the hospital trusts that I work with, you'll either set the culture proactively
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or you'll set it by accident.
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But one way or the other, you will set the culture.
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It's one of those things that often gets overlooked.
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So, again, from your career, if you look back, is there,
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an anecdote, a story that you could share from your own journey,
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maybe a time where you had a bit of doubt or a bit of difficulty or something
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that challenged you what did you take from that that then informs what you do today and how you are.
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Yeah my goodness i'm just thinking how greatly worthy this question is today
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for world mental health day scott actually i noticed that yeah and i've written
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a post today on linkedin so people can take a look and get some more detail but definitely um,
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I guess the biggest one is over my career, I've navigated four major redundancy
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challenges. Now that isn't uncommon in life sciences. No, it's not. It's not.
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So some of those have been down to organizational restructures,
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strategy changes, even the closure of an organization in the UK.
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Each one of those brought huge amounts of doubt, self-doubt.
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Uncertainty, but also wobbled my personal life. So it doesn't just affect your
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professional working life.
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It has a huge knock-on effect and it spills over.
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So I guess through those experiences, I really learned the importance actually
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for every time and even every day now of how do I inspire myself first?
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How do I stay focused? How do I stay resilient and clear about what it is that I truly want?
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Not lean on anybody else to do that for me. I've got to be driven.
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I've got to be motivated. So that inner foundation then allows,
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I guess, any individual but me to inspire and empower others.
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Because leadership isn't about avoiding challenges.
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It's about navigating them authentically and demonstrating that with a huge amount of,
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courage and then helping others also find strength along the way and what i
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mean by that is because it doesn't like my examples.
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It doesn't just stay in one pot no no it came back home as well yeah and i'm
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sure my husband won't mind me saying,
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that dynamic then changes what was kind of monthly you've got this coming in
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and everything's fine and the kids have got xyz things start to change i need
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to help him find strength to deal with the change as well as me going through it so,
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i think it's just if i was to give three top tips around that,
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it's stay focused stay resilient stay clear and inspire yourself find yourself
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something to keep inspiring oh truth you know and you've again you made some great points there,
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samantha in that i and i'm seeing it on linkedin just now we're at that time
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of year where the industry goes through its churn we have restructures we have,
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teams being let go we have people being recruited you can see it going on i've
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seen a number of posts from people that are in my network saying i've just been
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made redundant i'm looking for my next role you know and what have you and it,
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it's what happened to me it's how i ended up doing this as i went through a
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restructure and was made redundant and that was the opportunity to then establish,
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the consultancy and here I am, it's literally 20 years this year.
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Since we started that but if I go back to that time oh I remember the doubts you know,
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what will I will I ever work again was one of the doubts I had well you know this might be it,
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I'm 41 and I might never work again well here we are 20 years later and and
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still going so I think the coping strategies that you've just given people are
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absolutely you know brilliant really spot on for where we are particularly on
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world mental health day as well,
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oh thank you Scott and you don't look a day over 41, so you can't.
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You say all the right things.
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So if there's somebody out there that's listening to this and they're just stepping
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in to that new leadership and influence and role, maybe coaching others, maybe managing a team,
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what's the one insight or practice that you wish you'd known way earlier in
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your career that would today make a huge difference to you?
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Oh, wow, there's so many, Scott.
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Oh, this is a challenging question. There'll be more than one.
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I guarantee you there'll be more than one.
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So I guess if I give myself some advice, if I was stepping in,
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like you said, to inspire or into some kind of leadership role,
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You've heard me say it already, but it's that self-awareness.
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And I mean really understanding yourself, your strengths, your blind spots,
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your emotional triggers, because leadership just isn't about strategy or results.
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It's about how do you show up every single day? How do others experience you?
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And how do you respond under pressure? because early in my career,
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and I don't mind sharing this, I noticed that a common trait,
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maybe it's the nurse in me, can't quite take me out of nursing.
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I was often people-pleasing.
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I was saying yes to everything.
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Often reacting, I guess, to others' expectations, putting other people's needs
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before myself. Yep, not on call.
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And it wasn't, I guess, until I stepped back And I was challenged by a phenomenal
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leader, may I add, that I could then notice this.
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Recognize it in the moment and start to adjust my response was it easy absolutely not,
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yeah but it didn't only alter my relationships with the teams
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the teams improved but i also became so much more confident scott and much more
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of an intentional leader rather than a reactive one yeah yeah that Self-awareness,
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it isn't just a one-time insight, it's practice, it's regular reflection,
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it's regularly seeking feedback, and just noticing your patterns in your behavior,
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because it transforms us.
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I love that. There's another word in there that you're taking me back to memory, then again, feedback.
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It's a gift, isn't it? Feedback is a gift. Really? And it's used to decide what
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you do with it, whether you completely ignore it, and I'm just going to keep
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going, or you welcome it and you do something with it. It's so true that feedback
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is absolutely a gift when you get it.
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Yeah, it really is a gift. And the gift sometimes keeps giving.
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Yes. And you might want to hand back at times, but it's still a gift.
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I think if we always come from a place of creativity, Scott,
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and knowing you and our 10-year kind of history, I know that you always try
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and put a positive spin on something.
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I think that's why you and I have always got on so well, because we've got that
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optimistic outlook, even through challenging times.
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But that takes practice. It does. It takes a lot of practice.
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It does. But yeah, keep giving the gifts, everybody. That's it. Keep coming.
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That's it. Yeah. I've got one last question for you before I let you go.
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So if you weren't doing this work in coaching and in leadership,
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what completely different career or passion might you have been pursuing?
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And could you see any parallels or crossovers in what you do now?
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Oh Scott, I wanted to laugh at this question because I was only talking to my
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daughter at the weekend about this, who's now at college.
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Do you know what, friends and family would probably give you totally different
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answers on behalf of me, so I'm going to call that out.
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So the first, there's a couple of different things and I'm going to try and bottom line it.
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Ah, a florist. I've always loved flowers. Mrs Mackenzie used to do that.
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But she had her own floristry business for a wee while. Yeah,
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absolutely loved it. She loved it.
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Oh, I just love nature. I love nature. I love nurture.
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I think if I was to grow or draw similarities between what I'm doing now,
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I think it's about nurturing growth.
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It's about seeing something bloom, putting it in the right environment,
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holding that space, and kind of just tending to it.
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So I think definitely a florist. The other thing would be a boutique hotel or B&B owner.
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Oh, nice. Yeah, I would happily come and stay. I like a nice boutique hotel.
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Switches to do good food.
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Yeah, so I think it's, you know what, Scott? I've stayed, I've been very fortunate
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and I'm super grateful to have travelled the world with my jobs and stayed in
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some pretty beautiful places.
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But I again if I was to draw a similarity in terms of what,
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how does that compare to what I'm doing now I think I just love caring for others
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I love seeing other people happy um and being,
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being in a beautiful place and helping be part of that I think I think is probably
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that similarity and then the last thing if I may.
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And I'm trying not to giggle as I'm saying this, a travel agent. Really?
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Yeah. But again, it wouldn't just be for like a big organization.
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It would be probably pretty much what I do now for friends and family.
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Since I can remember, I am always the person that plans, and my husband will
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probably vote for this, incredible trips.
28:23
Right. Navigate budgets, logistics, challenges, create the perfect experience.
28:29
I see your trips on Facebook because we're connected on Facebook as well so
28:33
I see your trips so yes I can absolutely now that you say that I can see that
28:37
yes yeah so and I guess it's that and the similarities now I love culture,
28:44
I love kind of working in this environment in life sciences it's got great purpose
28:49
where I'm working across geographical boundaries and across cultures um.
28:57
Obviously, I'm having to be kind of highly strategic in what I do,
29:02
managing people's expectations, challenging people, inspiring people.
29:07
So I think there are similarities there. But all of this, I think,
29:10
shares something with leadership.
29:12
And it's creating experiences, inspiring people, and I guess solving challenges
29:19
with care and creativity.
29:21
Oh, wonderful, Luke. What an absolutely wonderful, wonderful, Luke.
29:25
I i can't believe that there's list if anybody listens in to this and they're
29:30
not motivated and inspired i'd be absolutely,
29:33
stunned i really can't thank you enough and just in finishing off sam people
29:38
can find you on linkedin they can obviously find you on is it samantha samantha
29:42
bramley.co.uk what's the website,
29:45
oh it's samantha bramley.com.com samantha bramley.com,
29:50
and if anybody also emails me if you've got my contact details or you connect
29:54
with me on linkedin i can introduce you to samantha,
29:57
at any point i can't thank you enough thank you for coming along and for sharing
30:01
your wonderful insights um you've certainly inspired me um to have a bit more
30:05
time thinking about and reflecting about my own self-care i'm on that's why i golf that's what i do,
30:11
sorry scott i've told wrong i've said it wrong it's not samanthabramley.com
30:15
it's well at samantha bramley.
30:18
Oh that's fine that's absolutely fine oh i'll correct it people people will
30:23
find you and if not they can come to me and i'll definitely get you connected
30:27
then oh you're very kind thank you,
30:29
not a problem at all it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you thanks again,
30:32
i really appreciate it have a lovely week ahead thanks scott you too thanks
30:36
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