Latest / UK Column Radio / What, exactly, is technocracy?

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What, exactly, is technocracy? · UK Column Radio

0:38
Sure, it's been a few years. Patrick Wood, thank you for
0:40
joining me again in the trenches.
0:44
Good to be with you. You're the guy, by the way.
0:47
But you're the guy that coined my intro that so many people use
0:51
these days. I'm the living expert on
0:55
technocracy. Is that right?
0:57
That was, I think that was you sure that was that was the
1:01
shortest interaction. I have it in the whole world.
1:05
I'm not sure what it means. You know, I'm the living expert.
1:10
Well, I'm not dead. Not yet.
1:14
I don't remember saying that, but if I did say that, that's
1:17
very clumsy wording it. Was I thought it was brilliant.
1:23
Well, it's literally true, so that's also a good start.
1:26
I suppose you and I have been trying to do this recording for
1:31
a couple of weeks now. And just for those who aren't
1:34
aware, Patrick, I had some serious issues with with
1:38
electricity and and road, the road being chopped up and then
1:42
the five up, the fibre optics being cut and everything.
1:45
And now we, we are here and thank you for being for being
1:48
patient. What could it go wrong?
1:53
You know, that's a great segue into technocracy.
1:57
You know, living in Africa has many pros and cons.
2:01
Obviously having a very broken, chaotic system means that you
2:05
have a lot of inefficiency, a lot of inept governance.
2:08
You have infrastructure that doesn't work, but that also
2:11
comes with a sense of freedom because in a highly in a highly
2:17
functional society, it's much easier to control loads of
2:20
people. Yes, I think you're right.
2:25
And I wonder, I wonder too, if, if, on the other hand, I wonder
2:30
if our fate, like in America is going to be about the same as
2:37
Africa at some point. Because our, our grid, for
2:42
instance, our electrical grid is so fragile right now.
2:47
It's just waiting for disaster, I think.
2:50
And with all the AI data centres coming on, they're online,
2:55
they're just sucking all the, all the power out of, out of the
2:58
grid at this point. It's going to be really crazy, I
3:00
think. So we're going to, we're going
3:03
to experience some of what you've been experiencing, I'm
3:06
sure. There is an upside though.
3:09
The silver lining is that it forces somebody like me and my
3:12
wife to become more self reliant, to trust less in the
3:16
authorities. Yes, you're absolutely right.
3:20
This is a big gift. This.
3:22
This would be a mass awakening I think, all across the world.
3:29
Going back a few years, your work was the 1st that I
3:33
discovered in the realm of technocracy, so to speak.
3:38
And I think your book, forget what it's called now, just it
3:42
was years ago, the rotate Ignocracy, I think it's called.
3:45
You've written many of that particular one.
3:47
Rising. Yes, that one, that one just
3:51
completely flip turned my my perception of reality and, and
3:57
it's amazing how the COVID era has done that for a lot of
4:01
people. Yes, exactly.
4:05
I was really the first guy. This, this kind of discovered
4:08
Technocracy in the 1st place that this goes back 18 years now
4:12
and I can't believe it. You know, when I look back on
4:16
the, on the journey that I, that I was on, I didn't even know
4:22
exactly what I had my hands on when I first discovered historic
4:27
Technocracy. But it didn't take me long and I
4:32
had help from other people as well.
4:34
I, I wasn't probably in a position to understand it
4:37
altogether, at least philosophically, positionally,
4:42
etcetera. I had some great help from
4:46
experts, other experts in the field. 1 philosopher, one
4:50
another guy, just a researcher from Canada actually, who
4:55
discovered the the archives of the technocracy movement in
4:58
Alberta. And I had to go.
5:02
I had I, I packed my bags and my wife went, went with me and she
5:07
off we went to an adventure in Edmonton, AB to go through all
5:16
the archives that were established at the university up
5:20
there. It's an amazing story.
5:22
So here I am today. I've all that stuff that I did
5:25
digested and put up and and writing initially articles like
5:30
that's, that's the only thing you can do at that point.
5:34
Just write some articles and see what if they fly?
5:38
Then my book came out in 2015, and that was Technocracy Rising
5:44
at that point. Well, let's assume that I don't
5:46
know anything. What is Technocracy?
5:49
They said it was a science of social engineering that was the
5:53
first thing that they led with. Beyond that, they talked about
6:00
resource management taking over all the resources of the world,
6:05
including people. They, they viewed people as
6:08
resources themselves, lumped in with animals like the cattle and
6:12
the field and the sheep and the, you know, so, so on.
6:16
And so they, they envisioned creating an economic system that
6:22
was served all these people, all these entities and it basically,
6:28
it was cradled to grave. And I, I wouldn't say it, it,
6:35
they didn't envision necessarily slavery.
6:38
They didn't use that word, but that's essentially what it was.
6:45
If you're kept all your life by people who want to man manage
6:52
you, they want to force feed you a diet, they want to control all
6:58
your activities everywhere you want, everywhere you go,
7:02
etcetera. That's not freedom for sure,
7:04
that's slavery. And we see this, we see this
7:07
tendency today with all these people now who, who want to
7:12
micromanage you add, you know, to, to the to the Max extent.
7:21
When you talk about the historical day, are you
7:24
referring to people like Hubbard and Howard Scott?
7:28
Exactly. Now this whole thing, however,
7:32
was invented. Well, it was codified.
7:36
It was, it was, they were talking about it long before
7:38
1932, but that's, that's kind of when it got codified at Columbia
7:44
University. And that was the seat of
7:48
progressivism at the time and still is actually in, in
7:52
America. But this is where the whole
7:55
thing was invented in the 1st place with scientists and
7:58
engineers mostly from Columbia, not exclusively, but somehow
8:02
Howard, Howard Scott, a blowhard and a con man, he found, he
8:10
found himself in a position of leadership and he conned
8:16
Columbia University into accepting their whole study
8:19
group. And they got resources from
8:22
Columbia to to do the studies, etcetera.
8:25
And the willing participants were the science and engineers
8:30
at Columbia in the 1st at the 1st place.
8:32
So when they, this was during the Great Depression, that was a
8:37
horrible time in America, well everywhere but in America
8:40
especially. And they thought the capitalism
8:47
was debt. They were sure that it was good.
8:49
It was all all over for capitalism and free free market
8:53
economics. So they, they wanted to create a
8:57
new type of an economic system that this has never been done in
9:00
the history of the world ever. Nobody ever came up with an
9:03
alternative economic system. I checked.
9:08
I had to check when I first when I discovered his the and like 18
9:14
years ago when I first discovered technocracy, they
9:18
said there was an economic system.
9:21
I never understood that I I never in, in my studies of
9:24
history, never had a clue that somebody actually did this.
9:29
Well, they did it and it was just kind of swept under the the
9:33
carpet for a while. It came back with the forming a
9:37
trot out of Commission in 1973. But before that time it was just
9:42
basically, well, it was Howard Scott for one thing.
9:46
He was, he was a con man in my opinion.
9:50
But then he he was teamed up, teamed up with M King Hubbard,
9:55
the well known oil man that created the peak oil theory in
10:04
1956, I think it was. And he separated from the
10:09
Technocracy movement because he was working for Shell at that
10:13
point. So for whatever reason he just
10:16
distanced himself. But he was a Co founder of
10:19
Technocracy Inc with Howard Scott.
10:22
And interestingly, Howard Scott found himself living in the
10:30
apartment rented by M King Hubbard in New York City.
10:35
And he was living on the couch. He had no money.
10:40
He had no money whatsoever. And so he basically, he was,
10:45
well, not, not a beggar, but you know, he, he was totally flat.
10:49
And so Hubbard kind of helped him through that period.
10:54
And then of course, once they got the membership organisation
10:57
started, Technocracy Inc, it was called Incorporated.
11:02
Then at that point there was some money coming in and Howard
11:06
Scott eventually took a salary. What I'm trying to wrap my head
11:10
around the is that this is what, about 100 years ago almost.
11:15
What do you think they were thinking at the time?
11:18
I mean, technology was very different.
11:21
I'll tell you this, this is this was an epiphany to me when I,
11:25
when I even now, when I consider where they were at Columbia
11:31
University, there was only one building back then.
11:34
It was Hamilton Hall, it was called.
11:37
Well, that's what it there's only one building, put it that
11:40
way, but it had a full footprint basement.
11:45
The basement was used for temporary projects like
11:50
Technocracy, and they gave 1/2 of that basement to the
11:55
Technocracy group, study group, they called it.
11:59
And these were the, again, these were the mostly the scientists
12:06
and engineers from Columbia. These were, these were brainiacs
12:10
really of the of the day. In fact, one of the guys, I
12:17
can't remember that one. I remember his, I can't picture
12:19
his name. I can't, can't pronounce it.
12:22
But he, he invented the Department of Engineering as a
12:28
discipline. Even at Columbia, this guy was
12:30
a, a brilliant guy. So they shared that basement
12:35
with, with the early, early iteration of IBM.
12:41
That's where the that's where the tabulator, the first
12:44
tabulator was invented, built and at that in that basement.
12:49
So all the, the brainiacs from IBM were commingling with the
12:56
brainiacs of technocracy. Just just consider the
13:01
possibilities. Now what, what would, what would
13:04
they, what would they talk about at lunch, for instance, or after
13:09
work or whatever? Well, they're, they were all at
13:13
that point, they were all futurists.
13:16
And I think my guess is that IBM especially had already
13:22
identified the trajectory where technology was going to go as
13:26
far as computed computing was concerned.
13:29
Now that was that was way long ago from now we can see all the
13:33
stuff that's happened since. But when you, when you analyse
13:38
the, the requirements that technocracy step set out for
13:43
itself to, to achieve itself, it was predicated on data
13:49
processing being in being some in, in, in play.
13:53
So I think it wasn't a formal brain trust for sure, but you
14:00
can see where these people had a vision of the future, where
14:06
technology was going to play a major role in the formation of a
14:11
new society and a new humanity. But that there is an interesting
14:15
point. You say they were sort of
14:19
futurists. They had a vision.
14:21
Is this, do you think, what they wanted or do you think they were
14:25
just seeing where it might be going?
14:28
This is exactly what they wanted.
14:30
They were very, very deliberate with their doctrine, if you
14:35
will. Well, it wasn't a doctrine
14:38
exactly. It's kind of they, they treated
14:42
it as a scientific project, very disciplined, very rigid.
14:50
And when they, when they wrote out their requirements and their
14:54
in fact, I have a book here if I can find it, I don't have it
14:58
right now, but the Technocracy study course was created by
15:04
Scott and Hubbard, like in 1934. That was a very detailed
15:11
specification for Technocracy. It covered every aspect of it.
15:16
And this is, this is Stan. It stood test of time.
15:21
And that book today, if you read it today, it's it's just exactly
15:26
what's going on. The, the mentality, the
15:29
mechanistic attitude that these all these people had.
15:35
They were in a vacuum for sure, because nobody else was looking
15:39
on looking into them at that point to to give them any
15:43
guidance. So they were in a vacuum in a,
15:46
in a like a circular loop and they're talking to to each
15:50
other. So, but nevertheless, it was
15:53
very disciplined. And this is this They knew
15:56
exactly where where they wanted to go.
16:01
I remember a few years ago, I think it was the early 2000s,
16:04
there was a documentary film that came out.
16:07
What is it called now? It was one of the first ever
16:11
that sort of hinted at a technocratic future.
16:15
I'm trying to think of the name now.
16:16
I've gone completely blank. It'll come to me.
16:20
The zeitgeist. Do you remember that, that that
16:23
film? Yes, absolutely.
16:25
Absolutely. Yeah.
16:26
And I remember thinking at the time, this was bonkers.
16:28
This is ridiculous. Now.
16:30
Now I'm looking back at that, going, OK, all right, I think
16:33
they had a point. Yeah.
16:38
But what I was going to ask you, Patrick, is 1932.
16:42
Was it just a coincidence that Huxley published Brave New
16:45
World? No, it wasn't.
16:51
Huxley was from England, of course, and the president of
16:57
Columbia University at the time. His name was Butler Nicholas
17:02
Murray Butler, who spent most of his time, or at least half his
17:07
time, in Europe. He was a hobnob hobnobber and he
17:13
loved to, he loved the, the royalty He was.
17:16
In fact, he was the best friends with Mussolini from from Italy,
17:22
from Italy. Oh, that's like that.
17:24
We won't talk about that, but who knows?
17:27
He was, he was he, he was himself, Butler, kind of
17:34
unplugged from reality. He lives in another world, not
17:38
an American world, because he just like, he liked to schmooze
17:43
all the royalty and stuff in Europe that, that, that was his
17:47
life. And so Huxley had a taste of him
17:54
somewhere along the way when he was talking about technocracy.
17:59
And that was a that was the the big thing that that was being
18:03
talked, talked about at that point because he he was a guy,
18:07
he, he had a huge ego. He was a guy who brought
18:10
technocracy to Columbia University.
18:14
And well, he kicked it out eventually because when he
18:19
discovered that Howard Scott was a con man, he just went
18:25
ballistic. You don't do this to a guy like
18:28
that. So the whole movement got kicked
18:30
out, but the the run up meetings before technocracy was at
18:37
Columbia University, there was 10 years or 10 years or so of
18:42
meetings from that. They call them themselves, I
18:46
think the technical Alliance, something like that, just a
18:49
discussion group. And so this thing was ramping up
18:54
and it, it hit pay dirt, if you will, when it came came to
19:00
Columbia University. So yes, absolutely 1932 was a
19:04
time that was the date that Brave New World was released.
19:08
And if you look at it from, from the point of view of
19:12
technocracy, it was absolutely spot on.
19:16
Absolutely spot on. But then, as you said, the
19:21
movement kind of held. It didn't go anywhere.
19:24
And I mean, just a few decades later, you had people like
19:28
Rockefeller and Brzezinski were also involved with the
19:32
Trilateral Commission. Now that's also interesting,
19:34
because now you're seeing the idea spreading.
19:40
Exactly. It was interesting that
19:43
Technocracy group, they never got any money from like Connor,
19:46
Carnegie, Rockefeller, etcetera. Back in the day 1932 they could.
19:53
I think that that would have happened if not for Howard
19:58
Scott. He was he spoiled the whole
20:01
thing and single handedly because he was a he was a con
20:05
man. Everybody understood eventually.
20:08
This guy was just full of hot air and a lot of people didn't
20:14
like him personally. And you know, he just he he
20:18
fizzled. So if if he had been legitimate.
20:24
A real scholar, if you will, like from Columbia.
20:27
Columbia. He probably would have had some
20:31
support from the institutions back then, but he didn't.
20:36
And remember, Columbia University was very close to the
20:40
Rockefeller family in the 1st place and the Carnegie's as
20:42
well. But that was a source of money
20:46
for all kinds of things in the in that day and including IBM
20:50
and the Hollerith Computer project.
20:55
So when Howard Scott just kind of tainted the whole thing,
21:01
nobody wanted to touch him. And that that just kind of
21:05
fizzled down until 1973. Actually, before that, when
21:10
Burzynski wrote his book between Two ages, 2 ages, America's role
21:15
in the Tectotronic era, that book was written about
21:19
technocracy. He didn't he didn't use that
21:21
word. He used Tectotronic.
21:23
But essentially, that was what he was writing about when he
21:28
wrote that book. He was a professor at Columbia
21:33
University, political, political science professor.
21:36
He was that he was on site, if you will, where this whole thing
21:40
was created the first place. Well, there was there was no
21:44
overt talk about technocracy after about 1932 because it just
21:50
flipped it, It flipped Butler on his on his head, so they
21:57
couldn't talk about it, but it was still there.
22:00
The scientists and engineers who were run running the show in in
22:04
1932, they were mostly still alive when Brzezinski was
22:09
overlapping with them at Columbia University.
22:11
He even, he probably talked with these original people and at at
22:16
length. And so when he, he, when he
22:19
wrote this book, Rockefeller immediately picked up on it.
22:25
And the reason why I, this is my, my studied opinion, I guess
22:30
because I was studying the trot outer Commission going back to
22:33
19/19/77 or so. Rockefeller had a problem with
22:41
money. He was a chairman of Chase
22:44
Manhattan Bank. He had all, and of course he had
22:49
all the, the oil fortune behind him as well.
22:54
He had a problem with money because he saw the handwriting
22:57
on the wall that sometime in the future, money, Fiat currency
23:01
especially, would be destroyed. It would have to destroy itself.
23:07
And what do you do if you want to maintain your wealth?
23:10
If you don't have money as a a calculator, what do you do?
23:14
Well, you get your hands on the resources then.
23:17
If you have all the resources in your pocket, it doesn't matter
23:20
what kind of a monetary system you have.
23:23
If people want it, you can, you know, say, give, give me your,
23:27
you know, your first born. I'll let you let you live.
23:33
So Rockefeller understood that technocracy was a way for him to
23:39
to control the resources of the world directly.
23:43
And that's exactly what is what has happened since then.
23:47
So Brzezinski. Brzezinski was more of an
23:54
strategist for sure. I wouldn't say that Rockefeller
23:59
was ever into technocracy like others other people have been,
24:05
but he used it mercilessly and intentionally to get his way.
24:11
He wanted to get all the resources of the world, as many,
24:14
many as he could into his pocket and out of everybody else's
24:18
pocket. That, that and that.
24:20
That clue includes like national assets, personal assets, farms,
24:30
you know, real real estate projects, etcetera.
24:33
The farms of the world, the agriculture, all this stuff has
24:38
been consolidated is unmistakable at this point over
24:42
the last 40 years, how these industries have been
24:44
consolidated into these giant corporations at this point,
24:52
right so. Sustainable development is
24:57
pretty much the largest agenda in the world, and it is all
25:01
based on exactly that. Yes, it's a resource based
25:05
economic system. There's not, no, there's,
25:10
everybody understands at this point that, that, that, that
25:13
sustainable development and they set, I mean, it's all over
25:16
their, their literature as well. It's all about resources and
25:20
resource management. That's their game.
25:23
That's always been the game for, for Technocracy has always been
25:27
about resource management. So in 1992, when the Agenda 21
25:36
conference was held in Rio, you have all these people that the
25:45
United Nations brought to God. I think there's 20,000 people
25:49
converged on that. That conference that produced
25:54
Agenda 21, there was a parallel conference that was held at the
26:00
same time called the Biodiversity.
26:05
Well, the biodiversity convention I think was called,
26:09
but they're, they were joined at the hip.
26:12
They're everybody talks about the Channel 21.
26:16
They don't talk as much about the biodiversity convention, but
26:19
they were all together in one place.
26:22
Well, what, what happened with with that whole thing?
26:30
If you back up from 1992, you realise that the person that put
26:39
the the doctrine together, a lady by by the name of Grew
26:45
Harlem Bruntland. She was tasked by the the United
26:53
Nations to write a book, a study called Our Common Future.
26:59
That book became the doctrine, the foundational doctrine of
27:02
sustainable development, and the United Nations has admitted that
27:07
he, she was the mother of sustainable development, period.
27:12
That doctrine came from her. It just happens that she was a
27:17
member of the trot out of Commission.
27:19
You can't make this up honestly. Just a coincidence.
27:24
Just a coincidence. Well, there were, there were
27:26
other people at that time that were writing about sustainable
27:30
development. There was.
27:31
She had a compatriot at the time, his name was, I think, Jim
27:38
O'Neill, and he also wrote a study for the Trot out of
27:44
Commission concerning sustainable development.
27:49
So 2 The two of them together certainly created the doctrine
27:55
of sustainable development on behalf of the trot out of
27:58
Commission. This is, to me, this is
28:01
absolutely stunning. Nobody picked up on it except
28:05
probably me at that point. So I just guys, hey, look over
28:09
here for what these people are doing.
28:11
It's absolutely insane. But this is where, this is where
28:16
Agenda 21 came from and this is where sustainable development
28:21
came from. This is where the, the
28:23
biodiversity switcheroo came from in the 1st place.
28:28
And it, we're suffering on it under it now.
28:32
And one of the substantial things that happened by the way,
28:39
the, the concept of biodiversity was changed before that.
28:44
What we put what would come up in somebody's mind if you, if
28:48
you ask them what to define biodiversity, they would say,
28:52
well, that must be like all the species of the, the tree frogs
28:57
and you know, in the, in the forest, in the, the swamps and
29:02
the life on Earth, right? Life on Earth, all the
29:05
ecosystems, the that's pretty much what people would have said
29:11
before that. But the doctrine of biodiversity
29:16
was changed to include humans in that mix.
29:23
We, we were never considered formally part of the mix, even
29:28
though the Technocracy group almost 100 years ago, they
29:35
included people in the mix, but that, that was never a formal
29:39
definition of it. You know, they said, well, we're
29:42
going to manage the humans as well.
29:45
But because humanity was included all of a sudden into
29:52
the definition of biodiversity that gave all of the United
29:58
Nations the mandate at that point to control all of the
30:03
resources and the and the people as well in the world.
30:08
We see for instance, the World Health Organisation, they're,
30:13
you know, they're unplugged. They've always been unplugged.
30:16
But you know, we see them micromanaging that what give
30:19
what gives them the right to dictate our health as
30:27
individuals and as as a society. What gives them the right or the
30:32
the thinking that they could do this.
30:34
How is inconceivable. But this is this is exactly what
30:40
they've done. They've they've made us into
30:45
animals in the field to be managed and.
30:49
That's why, yeah, that's why you get people like Vulgate saying,
30:53
well, there are too many people, we've got to find ways to to
30:55
reduce the population. Yes, exactly.
31:00
You know, you talk about population reduction.
31:06
This is a theory that's age old theory.
31:10
Herd management. When you have too many deer in
31:14
the forest, what do you do? You send out the hunters, right,
31:20
to thin the herd. This, this has been, gosh, going
31:25
going back thousands of years. I'm sure that hunters and
31:30
society figured out, well, we have to, you know, if we have
31:34
too many animals or they'll destroy themselves, whatever.
31:38
So we have to thin the herd. This is exactly this concept
31:41
that they're they're practising today.
31:43
Wasn't it so? Yeah.
31:45
Wasn't it also politically adopted a few decades ago on
31:50
behalf of, was it MIT and Malthus?
31:53
I forget the the the the Limits to Growth document, something
31:58
along those lines. Yes, Limits to Growth.
32:03
That was produced by the Club of Rome.
32:08
That was another Rockefeller establishment, by the way, a
32:13
think tank. Well, it wasn't, wasn't, well,
32:15
it was a think tank, I guess in one sense, but they, they
32:17
produce that. That was their book The Limits
32:20
to Growth. And it basically exposed
32:25
technocracy, the control over people.
32:29
And they've, they've written other books, I think since that
32:36
kind of reflect the same, the same theory.
32:42
And when you consider how that played into the Rockefeller
32:48
takeover of this whole thing in the 1st place, you can see
32:52
exactly where it fit and you know, the scheme of things,
32:56
right? And most people never really saw
33:01
the Club of Rome as being a Rockefeller organisation, but it
33:05
was because it was originally formed in Rome, which is outside
33:12
of Rome in a villa that was owned by Rockefeller himself.
33:20
So he, he was a guy that that called the meeting and put the
33:25
brainiacs together. Hey, guys, come up with
33:27
something. I want to, I want to do.
33:30
I'm, I'm just paraphrasing here. I, I want to, I want to create
33:34
something that lets us get all the resources in our, in our
33:38
pocket. So cook something up, would you?
33:42
And get back to me on it, get a, get a report on it, out of it
33:46
and we'll, we'll run with it. Well, the Club of Rome was the,
33:53
they were the people that concocted this whole climate
33:59
change nonsense. And it was very sterile at that
34:05
point, said Guy. We, we're just going to do,
34:07
we're going to do this. We're going to trick everybody
34:09
into doing this and we'll herd the whole world and we'll
34:14
Stampede the whole world into this sustainable universe and
34:20
we'll take over at that point. And they were, they were, they
34:24
were so crass at even suggesting that.
34:28
But they said that their conclusion was, well, that
34:35
mankind is going to is the enemy.
34:39
Mankind itself was the enemy. So we're going to turn humanity
34:45
against itself, to destroy itself, though, so that we can
34:50
get all our our hands on all the resources of the world.
34:55
This, this was so ugly, in my opinion, just absolutely
34:59
stunning. But that was Rockefeller.
35:04
You know that this is one reason, by the way, that I say
35:07
Rockefeller was not he was not for technocracy per SE.
35:13
He was all about getting the resources.
35:15
So hey this manufacturers something to get this thing kick
35:19
started. But I mean, the whole idea of
35:23
depopulation is also so absurd if you just open your eyes.
35:28
If I fly between Cape Town and Johannesburg, it's about a 2
35:31
hour flight and I look out the window for most of that flight.
35:35
Easily 98% of that entire flight is just nothing underneath me.
35:42
It's empty. Empty land.
35:44
Maybe some farms? Yes, yeah.
35:48
But yet I'll have conversations, Patrick, with people, they'll
35:51
go. They'll say to me, yes, but we
35:53
are overpopular. Just look around you.
35:54
Well, that's because we live in a city.
35:59
They've never been out outside the city to know.
36:04
It's weird. It is.
36:06
And the same thing here. I mean, when you can fly from
36:10
any city, it point to point Phoenix to Denver, for instance,
36:16
it's all open land. There's nothing.
36:18
You just, you don't see any, hardly any towns at night.
36:23
You can see a few towns because they have lights, but otherwise,
36:28
you know, the America's empty. But people say, oh, we, we have
36:33
to, you know, get the population rearranged or whatever.
36:39
Have you played devil's advocate?
36:41
So the idea of technocracy is society being run by engineers
36:45
and scientists? It sounds pretty good.
36:47
I live in Africa and things are very broken and and chaotic.
36:52
Why would it be a bad thing? Well, for, for one, the whole
37:04
thing was disingenuous from from the get go.
37:08
It was a fraud from I think from the the very start.
37:15
But people will argue today that well, because politicians have
37:20
failed, society has failed whatever.
37:25
And you, you need technology to, to, to run your affairs.
37:36
That, that however, that, that excludes personal autonomy for
37:44
you. They'll make, they'll make all
37:47
the decisions for you, for your life, and you won't have to make
37:51
any at all. Some people think that's a good
37:54
thing. Good thing I don't.
37:57
I think I, I would say probably if anybody thought about it, I
38:01
don't want to, I don't want that level of control.
38:08
However, you know, the, the technocrats of the, of the
38:10
world, especially in America, they're, they're overhyping
38:17
everything they're doing at this point.
38:20
They say, oh, it's going to be wonderful.
38:22
You can see, you know, just, it's just around the corner.
38:25
Utopia is going to be upon us. Productivity is just going to
38:30
soar. Everybody's going to get rich.
38:33
Everybody's going to be healthy. We're going to live forever.
38:37
You know, this is basically a brave new world on a hype
38:42
machine and you know it, It's, it's inconceivable that people
38:50
would buy this crap. You know it's.
38:53
Yeah, I mean, I mean it. Sounds good.
38:56
I mean, I mean facetious, obviously, because if you just
38:59
think about it, the COVID era was a very good example of a
39:03
form of technocracy. Every single government
39:05
everywhere just locked down everybody and try to centrally
39:08
control our health. Yes, let me let me just say one
39:14
thing about this. I when I when when COVID hit by
39:19
February of 2020, I made a prediction that this was
39:26
technocracies coup d'etat not based on the virus itself.
39:32
The shot was in not view at that point.
39:36
But when I saw all of these universities suspicious for
39:40
instance, the universities in in England that were formally
39:45
hyping climate change, global warming with bogus studies,
39:52
corrupted data, etcetera. When I saw these data
40:01
scientists. At universities flipping over to
40:06
the, the COVID narrative, that's all I that's that was the only
40:12
clue that I needed at that point to make that prediction because
40:17
formally they run out of steam with climate change and global
40:21
warming. It just they couldn't get any
40:23
traction at all at that point. And so they flipped and mass
40:28
over to supporting the new threat of the virus that was
40:37
technocratic because all these universities, they were all
40:41
bought up, bought off by Rockefeller money and the
40:44
grants. And so that so on that they get
40:46
in the 1st place these these so called diet data scientists.
40:53
They were they were just re they were repurposed, put it that
40:59
way, maybe to support now this new narrative about COVID.
41:07
That was a coup. That was a coup d'etat of
41:09
technocracy at that point. These people have been waiting
41:12
for this for all these years. First the fear of God was put
41:17
into people because of global warming.
41:21
Now they're the fear of God is put in them by the by the virus
41:27
that that's all it was is just pure sham.
41:32
And both of them are are invisible.
41:35
Yes. So you can't fight it.
41:37
You don't. You don't know how to argue it.
41:39
Exactly that, that was a brilliant, brilliant plan.
41:44
And, and if you look at it that way, these people, they
41:47
couldn't, they could not have achieved their purposes more
41:52
directly with, with any other plan.
41:55
If you, if you, if you're going to fight something, make sure
41:58
there's the, the enemy is invisible because because it's
42:02
everywhere. It's everywhere.
42:06
Well, Speaking of the enemy being invisible and everywhere,
42:10
what do you then make of something like AI?
42:15
Yeah, AI is not at this point, it's not being viewed as an
42:22
enemy. That's probably the a big
42:25
problem, in my opinion. It's being embraced by everybody
42:31
in the world, young people with companion apps, for instance,
42:38
with AI being introduced to into government systems like in the
42:43
United States where AI now is taking over whole agencies in
42:50
our government, top to bottom. Actually is is being used in, in
42:54
state governments as well as city governments as well.
42:58
So there's a, a universal adoption of AI.
43:06
Certainly there's some people who are anxious, like business
43:09
owners might be anxious about it, but they're going along with
43:13
it anyway. It is invisible in that sense,
43:19
but it has very profound effects on this on society, because
43:24
eventually it'll it'll end up with a situation of scientific
43:28
dictatorship. So maybe this was the the
43:34
ingenious thing about AI that it is invisible in that sense.
43:38
You can't touch it, you can't feel it is it exists in in the
43:43
computers. But you know, if, if I had a, if
43:47
I had something like a thumb drive here, which I have in my
43:51
in my hand, if, if this was an unlimited size thumb drive, say
43:58
it had, I don't know TB of data on it, right?
44:05
If this thing weighed 1 oz when I started, when I got it in my
44:09
hand and now I loaded up with one terabyte of data, you know
44:14
how much it weighs now? Same, same thing.
44:17
This doesn't change. So the physical, the
44:21
physicalness of data is not existent.
44:26
It's it, it exists to be processed in a computer, ones
44:31
and zeros, electricity, etcetera, but it has no mass.
44:37
This is kind of kind of kind of striking.
44:40
It's it's so invisible you can't even hardly measure it.
44:44
I don't know what the individuals 100 years ago would
44:48
would like, but we know what some of them today are like.
44:51
Like Elon Musk is very likeable. Remember that Elon Musk's
44:57
grandfather was head of technocracy in Canada in the
45:02
1940s, so he understands technocracy very well, I have to
45:07
say. And he's also the richest man in
45:10
the on the planet right now. He's the, he's the chief
45:16
architect of technocracy today. And people, some people love
45:22
him, other people hate him at this point.
45:25
But he's a grandstander. He knows to he knows how to make
45:32
it, make his case. He started his own political
45:38
party now in America, I think it's called the America Party.
45:43
And he thinks he's going to bust the two party system in our
45:48
country, Democrats and Republicans.
45:50
Maybe he will, maybe he won't. But you can see there's an
45:55
agenda under foot, under way with technocracy, with people
46:02
like him and Peter Thiel, a David Sachs, Marc Andreessen,
46:09
all these people from the original PayPal mafia in Silicon
46:14
Valley. Yeah.
46:19
So you can see their agenda. They have, they have an agenda
46:22
for sure. And they're playing it out very
46:27
carefully, I might add. So, you know, Elon, Elon Musk is
46:31
kind of he's, he's, he's, he's, you can identify him as being on
46:42
his own mission. He he's not influenced by other
46:46
people, I don't think. You don't think by Trump?
46:49
No, I don't not, not at this point.
46:52
All of his, his dance with Trump leading up to the the election
46:59
where he put all the money into the election to get Trump
47:02
elected and then all the, the friendship they had after that.
47:09
And now it blew up. And he now he hates Trump and
47:13
their their odds with each other and, and Elon Musk is doing now
47:18
the America party. He's going to pursue his own
47:22
vision, his own dream, all based on the dark enlightenment
47:27
philosophy. Now that's.
47:30
Mentioned Mull bug I think OK. That's, that's exactly right.
47:34
That's Curtis Yarvan and Lynn Nick Land, also from England.
47:39
But this business of the dark Mag Mega and the Dark
47:45
Enlightenment, this is so twisted.
47:48
This is technocracy. This is the the political
47:51
expression of technocracy now. And what these what these people
47:56
are trying to achieve is basically to step set up a mark
48:00
monarchy on America where there's one leader that
48:04
basically runs the whole country like a start up.
48:08
And basically it's that they're going to destroy democracy
48:12
altogether and the constitutional democracy that we
48:15
have. And this this was their agenda
48:17
from the from the get go. So you see, going back with
48:24
Musk, for instance, you see when he, when he bought Twitter
48:28
originally, what was that all about?
48:31
Well, he and he got a, a, a, a base of, of at least 700 million
48:37
users with Twitter. It's, it has survived and it's
48:45
still here now. And they said, oh, I'm going to,
48:48
I'm going to promote free speech.
48:50
I'm going to be a free speech absolutist, whatever that means.
48:55
And nobody questioned that at the time.
48:58
But now the, the conservative movement and others have moved
49:02
to Twitter now in mass to where now Twitter is being used, the
49:08
feed off of Twitter, Twitter is being used to train his AI
49:14
system called XAI. That's Grok.
49:18
And now you, you also see that he has a a vision to create what
49:26
he calls the everything app, kind of like WeChat.
49:30
And he wants to bolt in on the paying payment system based on
49:34
crypto. He wants to have social credit
49:37
scoring system kind of like China has.
49:41
And so you you see his vision started with the acquisition of
49:50
Twitter. Since then, all of the tech Bros
49:57
have moved away from the left into the right camp.
50:02
They've all centred around Trump now all of a sudden this was
50:07
disingenuous as well because they were never political in the
50:10
1st place. They, they, they'll use whoever
50:13
they can. So the tech Bros went over to
50:19
Trump like Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, all the all these
50:23
people that used to be the leftists in our country.
50:29
They just flip flopped over into Trump camp.
50:34
Now, now that Trump is in 5-5 months in, he signed important
50:41
legislation for technocracy to be moved ahead.
50:47
People are asking now do they need Trump anymore?
50:54
Is Trump a loose cannon now? It needs to be disposed of.
51:00
And I think you're going to see this in the next few months
51:02
where maybe maybe after our mid term elections.
51:06
In any case, I think you're going to see a lot high, high
51:11
likelihood that Trump is going to be dumped from the
51:13
presidency. And that will leave our Vice
51:19
president, JD Vance to be advanced into the to be
51:24
president, right? Well, it just so happens that JD
51:28
Vance is a creation of Peter Thiel in the first place.
51:34
Peter Thiel was the guy that that got Vance elected as a
51:41
senator in Ohio. He, he gave tonnes of money to
51:48
him to be elected. Then he positioned him to get
51:52
into the be the, the vice president to run with with
51:56
Trump. Well, Peter Thiel and JD Vance
52:03
are on the same wavelength because Vance never had a job
52:10
outside of Peter Thiel that he when he got out of law school or
52:17
Yale, he the only person he worked for was Peter Thiel.
52:21
He was groomed by Peter Thiel to be where he is right now.
52:25
So they set up a situation now where Trump is could be
52:29
discarded, if you will. If, if, if, if Teal's vision is
52:38
realised by advancing Vance into the presidency, it's game over
52:48
for America at that point. What?
52:50
Is your view on Trump? Pardon.
52:52
Sorry, sorry for interrupting. What is your, your view on
52:55
Trump? That that I mean, he, he comes
52:57
off like, like a blockhead and he's very self important and
53:03
everything's beautiful and, and that, you know, America first
53:06
and he's going to be the first to do everything.
53:09
What do you make of him? You know, I, it's hard to, it's
53:14
hard to have an opinion that doesn't change like with or
53:18
when, you know, well, he's today.
53:21
If he does something good, everybody cheers.
53:24
Well, you know, he's, he's just like the, the border is more
53:28
secure than it was before that. That's a good thing.
53:32
He's probably done some things to promote a little bit of
53:38
religious freedom in America, maybe.
53:41
I mean, he's not a technocrat, do you think?
53:44
Not exactly, but he's played. He's played the role of a
53:48
technocrat. Nevertheless.
53:50
There was an article that I ran on Technocracy News, and I want
53:55
to say probably 2017, maybe 6, I think it was 16 that suggested
54:05
that Trump was a technocrat. That was, that's a great
54:10
article, but I think it made the point he was, he was advancing
54:14
or he was supporting initiatives that we're clearly technocratic
54:20
in nature. That was the only point we see
54:25
now. He's he's, he's all on board
54:28
with anything that technocrats want to do, crypto,
54:32
cryptocurrency, AI and government, etcetera.
54:36
The, you know, supporting the data centres all over, all over
54:39
the Stargate. Stargate Yeah.
54:42
So this is this is a continuation of his policies
54:47
from his last presidency and I But on the other hand, it
54:54
doesn't mean that he is a pure technocrat.
54:56
He has no engineering background at all.
54:58
I don't think he, in fact, somebody reported that he
55:02
doesn't even use a smartphone. So.
55:05
OK, well, there's people like that, that, that they're,
55:09
they're in business, but they, they don't want any part of
55:12
technology. They run everything in their
55:14
head. That seems to be Trump.
55:17
And so he's he's obviously favourable towards the
55:25
technocrats at this point. He's a he's, he's advancing
55:30
their agenda all over the place. But I think in the end, if he,
55:35
if they, if they count him out, if he's, if he's downsized, just
55:42
so to speak, or he's access to this, that's the, the human
55:47
resources term that we use in America.
55:50
If you're excess, that means you're, you know, hit the hit
55:53
the road Jack. That would be a perfect power
55:58
play at that point to get to capture the presidency, to put
56:04
all your people in place. They basically this has happened
56:10
in Washington, DC already with the with the, with Doge, for
56:13
instance, that came in and swept the whole country with AI and
56:21
personnel replacement. So Trump, on the other hand, he
56:29
has a huge base with the MAGA movement that was that was a
56:35
cult of personality. I think by and large is is it,
56:44
is it genuine? Well, I think the MAGA movement
56:50
is going to be splintered into 1000 pieces in the end.
56:54
I think it's happening right now.
56:57
So where, where will that end? I don't know.
56:59
But my guess is there's the possibility that Trump could be
57:05
the most hated president in history before he's done.
57:15
So Technocracy is essentially a central control grid where
57:21
everything is centralised and decisions are made for you and
57:25
you don't really know. You're kind of a slave, but you
57:28
don't have physical shackles around your ankles.
57:32
That's right, you know, like a 15 minute city where you'll
57:35
start getting penalised if you go beyond those, those borders,
57:38
that sort of thing. But if this has been building
57:43
for the last 100 years, a deist is it, is it even stoppable?
57:48
I mean, how do you resist? How do you push back?
57:50
At this point, it's probably not stoppable.
57:57
I can't. I can't conceive any way that
58:02
can be stopped at this point. You'll have, for instance,
58:06
federal troops guarding these data centres that are being
58:12
erected around around the country because if people wanted
58:15
to blow them up. So you're going to see there
58:20
there's going to be a huge that will put put it this way, the,
58:27
the teeth, the iron teeth are, are going to, they'll be bared
58:36
when push comes to shove on this whole thing.
58:39
I think you're going to see the crackdown on free speech.
58:44
You're going to see a crackdown on society.
58:48
You're going to see a crackdown in mental health.
58:57
But we really saw that down the last two years.
58:59
They literally stopped people from moving.
59:04
Yes, exactly. Yeah, today there's.
59:13
I did the statistic yesterday, I found there's 200 million
59:20
people, mostly young people around the world who were using
59:25
companion apps. They're free freely available on
59:30
the app stores like on Android and iOS Apple Store 200 million
59:40
that I just counted all the subscribers that they said they
59:43
had and consider 200 million young people being immersed into
59:54
AI with a with a imaginary friend, if you will, or
1:00:00
girlfriend or man friend or whatever.
1:00:05
Imagine the psychosis that will result from this escape from a
1:00:10
reality. It's it's stunning.
1:00:13
We've never seen anything like this in the history of the
1:00:16
world. And now?
1:00:20
The the systems like Grok and Open AI, they're openly
1:00:25
promoting their own versions now.
1:00:28
They haven't released them, I don't think quite yet, but
1:00:31
they're they're releasing at some point their own version of
1:00:36
a companion app that will remember everything about you
1:00:41
and it will direct you in your life.
1:00:44
You know I. Already have one of those,
1:00:45
Patrick. I already have one of those.
1:00:48
It's called my wife. You you're right.
1:00:58
She knows everything about me and everything that I'm about to
1:01:00
do also. Yes, that's, that's good.
1:01:05
I remember that one. So we, we, we, we face these
1:01:10
type of problems. The technocrats are driving this
1:01:15
on purpose though. That's my point then this, this
1:01:19
is not just Oh well it just happened and so it happened.
1:01:23
Get with, you know, deal with it.
1:01:25
No, that's not how this happened.
1:01:27
These people are are openly promoting anti human systems,
1:01:36
anti democratic systems, anti civilization systems
1:01:46
intentionally. There's no mistaking anything
1:01:50
about it. It's absolutely just crazy.
1:01:54
And this, this whole philosophical thing that's
1:01:59
driving them at this point is so bizarre that normal, normal
1:02:06
people, maybe I'm not normal, I don't know, but I think I'm I
1:02:10
think I am. But normal people would look at
1:02:13
this if they understood it. Say you, you can't say that you
1:02:17
can't do that or whatever, but this is so weird, this
1:02:22
philosophy that they've adopted at this point.
1:02:25
The technocracy is weird by itself.
1:02:28
But when you layer on all this nonsense with a dark
1:02:33
enlightenment that Curtis Yarvin's talking about, that
1:02:37
Peter Thiel was in love with Yarvin in the 1st place, and
1:02:41
Elon Musk is basing his American party on Yarvinism and you and
1:02:50
you understand how dark Yarvinism is.
1:02:54
This guy hates society. He hates democracy.
1:02:59
He hates basically anything that has to do outside of, you know,
1:03:05
direct control over your behaviour.
1:03:09
And we've never, we've never faced this before, this type of
1:03:13
an ideology, humanity has never faced this, faced this and mass
1:03:21
and how, how can we get rid of it?
1:03:25
Well, you can't get rid of it until you understand how evil
1:03:28
the, the philosophy is in the 1st place and reject it.
1:03:32
But people are not rejecting it at this point.
1:03:35
And this is really just really disturbing.
1:03:39
I said right at the very beginning of our conversation
1:03:41
that living in place like South Africa or some African country
1:03:47
or some place that's generally seen as backwards could be a
1:03:52
safe haven later on, at least for a bit longer.
1:03:57
Yes. What do you think, Prop?
1:03:59
I think you're right. On one hand, I could see that.
1:04:03
On the other hand, we see people like Bill Gates, for instance,
1:04:07
going into African companies or countries or other to test his
1:04:12
crazy genetic schemes and his medicines and vaccines and all
1:04:16
that kind of stuff. And the people would just eat,
1:04:18
they eat it up. I guess they have no no other
1:04:20
choice but I. Think it was in Kenya where he
1:04:24
did one. We did a horrible one.
1:04:28
I can't remember. Yes, yeah.
1:04:31
He's he's he's been well, you can understand probably his
1:04:38
logic. I can't test this in America
1:04:42
because they'd they'd hang me. So let's yeah.
1:04:47
We can, we can test it on some, on some poor black Africans.
1:04:49
Nobody cares about them anyway. That should be.
1:04:53
That should be, he's thinking. Exactly.
1:04:56
So the another aspect of testing technology outside of the United
1:05:05
States and maybe Europe as well, I don't know, but at least out
1:05:09
of the United States we've seen gain of gain of function
1:05:16
research on viruses farmed out to.
1:05:24
China. Right in the 1st place that
1:05:27
they, they couldn't do this. They, they couldn't do this
1:05:31
legally in America. They would have been shot
1:05:36
creating viruses like like COVID.
1:05:40
So they farmed it out with money given to China to develop the,
1:05:47
the, the, the virus in the 1st place.
1:05:48
OK. Then it came back and destroyed
1:05:51
our country. So you have examples of this
1:05:57
where, for instance, surveillance technology is being
1:06:01
exported to Ukraine and other countries.
1:06:05
Turkey is another one where the where it would not play in
1:06:11
America to do this type of thing.
1:06:13
But for for UK Ukraine, that's that's a perfect place for
1:06:18
Palantir, for instance, to test the software.
1:06:23
And who cares about Ukraine is a hot war going on and you know,
1:06:28
it doesn't matter. And so they're re re importing
1:06:32
this technology back to America. Again, we've seen this well in
1:06:37
just in Kenya, for instance, the the shots that were so lethal to
1:06:43
us were tested in other countries, like in Kenya,
1:06:49
Africa. This has been a pattern over 50
1:06:56
years at least, maybe more, where Americans were not used to
1:07:00
test anything. The the evil stuff that's been
1:07:04
developed has always been developed and with other legal
1:07:08
systems, with other societies. And when they when they got
1:07:13
their way there, then they figured now I could we could
1:07:16
bring it back to the rest of the world.
1:07:23
It's coming for landing, Patrick.
1:07:25
It's a rather grim outlook that you, that you presented.
1:07:29
I was hoping for for a silver lining for a bit of hope.
1:07:34
Well, here's here's, here's, here's the worst that several
1:07:39
silver lining exists Is is right here.
1:07:43
It's right here in America. I can't speak for any other
1:07:49
country, but in America, people have purposely almost declared
1:07:59
themselves to be brain dead to, to all this stuff.
1:08:03
They won't think, they won't think about it.
1:08:06
What what it, what it means, if they want it in the first place
1:08:10
at all, or if they just go along with it, say, well, hey, you
1:08:14
know, that's life. You know, stuff happens, stuff
1:08:17
changes. And so my life is going to be
1:08:19
different in, in the next few years and well, may I, I'll lose
1:08:23
my job and I'll never be employed again.
1:08:27
And, and I'm going to be kept by the, the state with universal
1:08:32
basic income. No problem.
1:08:34
You know, people don't think that that way.
1:08:36
They, they think, well, how, how can I get food on my table table
1:08:42
next, next week? I'm, I'm, I'm worried about next
1:08:46
week, not next month, not next year.
1:08:51
But if people were willing to think this through, they would
1:08:57
immediately reject it. They would immediately reject
1:09:01
it. And remember, we in, in the 40s,
1:09:07
people in America threw technocracy out on his ear.
1:09:13
They they political cartoonist, for instance, were, were
1:09:18
depicting technocracy is the devouring monster that was
1:09:22
eating New York City. You know, they got the picture,
1:09:26
they, they understood where it is going.
1:09:28
But this mindset has been lost now.
1:09:32
And you see the people just embracing this thing or they're,
1:09:36
they willingly ignore it. But if they would just engage
1:09:41
their brain to think about it for a while, they would
1:09:43
understand. And that would be the first line
1:09:47
of defence if people would do that.
1:09:50
The second thing is people need to get out in their own local
1:09:53
communities. Forget national that's, that's
1:09:56
gone. But they can, they can protect
1:09:58
themselves if they get a hold of their city councils and their
1:10:02
their their boards that run their local communities and
1:10:05
stuff. Educate these people to don't
1:10:08
let this stuff come in our community.
1:10:12
There have been many, many communities in America, for
1:10:15
instance, who outlawed facial recognition technology and, and
1:10:22
the police departments and elsewhere, they just said, no,
1:10:25
we're not going to do here. You don't, but you don't read
1:10:28
about those stories. But they're because they're all
1:10:31
suppressed. They, they, they never see the
1:10:35
light of day. So there there is hope on a
1:10:40
local basis that you can do things to protect yourself
1:10:45
against the incursion of things like AI surveillance, etcetera.
1:10:53
But at this point most people are are asleep, asleep in the at
1:10:57
the switch and they don't want to go in.
1:11:01
They don't don't want to even meet their City Council members.
1:11:06
They don't know him, they don't care to meet him.
1:11:09
And so they get a free pass. I hope.
1:11:15
I hope this resonates for anybody in the world, but
1:11:21
especially in America. If you can't engage your own
1:11:25
brain to think this through and come to a better conclusion,
1:11:29
then don't complain. What you get in the end, it's
1:11:33
all I can say. All right, Patrick, how can I
1:11:38
keep up with your work? Technocracy dot news.
1:11:42
That's the simple place. Technocracy dot news.
1:11:46
You've been to, you've been to South Africa, if I remember
1:11:48
correctly. Long, long ago.
1:11:52
Not. Not recently.
1:11:54
Do you want it? Do you know you want to hear the
1:11:56
story? Yes, yes.
1:11:57
Tell me quickly. In the 1970s, I teamed up with a
1:12:05
gentleman gentleman here in America.
1:12:08
His name was Don Mcelvaney. We started an organisation
1:12:12
called Americans Concerned for South Africa.
1:12:18
We changed the name to Americans Concerned about Southern Africa.
1:12:24
But nevertheless, we started out with South Africa when we saw
1:12:29
the attacks being launched by the the communist forces,
1:12:36
Marxist forces moving into Southern Africa.
1:12:41
From the Angolan side. Pardon.
1:12:44
From the Angolan side. Exactly.
1:12:47
So we saw a threat and so we wanted to get American
1:12:56
legislators, journalists, whatever, to see what's going on
1:13:00
down there. So we sponsored trips to Africa
1:13:04
or South Africa and Rhodesia as well.
1:13:06
Angola, we had one of Angola a goal as well.
1:13:10
And so we had Geo. We set up geopolitical tours
1:13:16
where our groups could be addressed by your leaders,
1:13:21
military police leaders, legislators, etcetera and and
1:13:28
journalists as well. And this is how it came to an
1:13:35
end. There was a blood contract
1:13:39
issued on the founder or the, the guy Don who was in South
1:13:46
Africa and well, we couldn't go back again.
1:13:51
The, the police down there told us if you, if you, if you come
1:13:54
back here, you're going to get killed one way or another.
1:13:58
And that was when the ANC basically was in charge of
1:14:02
everything and they hated, they hated their, our guts because
1:14:08
we're, we were the force standing against them and we're,
1:14:13
we were exposing them to the American press especially so.
1:14:18
Well, I still controlled everything today.
1:14:21
Yeah, I know, nothing has changed.
1:14:23
No, but I do hope you do make a trip here again in the future.
1:14:29
I would like to I love, I love your country.
1:14:31
I really do have so many friends from South Africa over the
1:14:35
years. I don't know how that happened,
1:14:38
but we we developed a kind of a friendship with a bunch of
1:14:43
people and now they had they had children and grandchildren,
1:14:46
whatever. We just kind of grow up, grew up
1:14:48
with it, right. But I love your country.
1:14:51
I always have all. Right.
1:14:53
Well, on that rather pleasant note, Patrick, let's let's go
1:14:58
home. Thank you for joining me in the
1:14:59
trenches. You've got my pleasure.