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215 – TMG Hospitality Trailblazers: Charles Oswald · Suite Spot: A Hotel Marketing Podcast

• Ryan Embree: Welcome to Suite Spot, where hoteliers check in and we check out what's trending in hotel marketing. I'm your host, Ryan Embree. Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of The Suite Spot. This is your host, Ryan Embree, here for another edition of our TMG Hospitality Trailblazers. Technically, a look back on a few years back when we visited with this particular individual and company trailblazing and paving the way forward in hospitality. That is Charles Oswald, president and CEO of Aperture Hotels. Charles, thank you so much for being back here on The Suite Spot. Charles Oswald: Oh, it's good to be back. Thank you. Ryan Embree: Yeah. You've been busy. It's been a long time. I had to look back and see the last time we visited here on The Suite Spot. We did our original hospitality trailblazers, really in the infancy of Aperture Hotels back in December 2023. A lot's changed on that since then, right? So catch us up a little bit. What have you been working on? There's been some incredible growth that we've seen with your company. Congratulations on that. But catch us up since we last visited. Charles Oswald: First off, so at that time when we had launched Aperture Hotels, we were coming out in the, in the wake of the pandemic. So if you kind of think back where we were three and four years ago versus today, there were a lot of properties that had gone through this economic shock, and there were owners who were reeling from that experience, especially those that had corporate business travel hotels as opposed to those leisure destinations that benefited from the pandemic. And so during that time, Aperture actually went on and took on almost 30 different properties that we added to the portfolio, that were, driven by those owners who needed a new management company to come and take a look at their, their with fresh eyes and take a look at their top line strategies, their expense controls. And so we had a lot of properties, and they were 100% of those properties were not through acquisitions, but were actually just performance turnaround assignments where they were switching management companies, to somebody to take a fresh look. So, with all that said, we found ourselves, walking into properties that were on, like, the sixth or seventh year of a five-year hold strategy for private equity firms or high net worth individuals and so on. And that quickly turned into turnarounds, which the story from us lately has actually been sales, a lot of sales, 20 plus sales over the course of this last year. And so today, as we stand here, I'm actually more rebuilding the pipeline with a mix of more management change assignments, plus a few pipeline of new developments. And those new developments are mostly, like, 100 or 300 room soft brand properties across the country. So yeah a lot's changed for sure. Really rapid growth, really rapid sales, and now more sort of measured one at a time growth. Ryan Embree: Yeah, and I wanna talk about that, because I've had the privilege to talk to some management company owners and leaders, and they've kind of echoed that same sentiment of not just growth, but strategic growth. And that seems to be where you are right now, too. So when you kind of take a look at. I know you mentioned that particular segment, but when you take a look at the hospitality landscape right now, what makes the right strategic partner for Aperture Hotels right now as you kind of enter this cycle where you're trying to build back up a little bit? Charles Oswald: You're right. The right partner, it's about fit. And when you look at the experience of our leadership team, we're really engineered towards compact, full service hotels, lifestyle, premium select service brands. They can be brand or independent. We'd like to partner with owners that have some portfolio stable scalability. Preferably they own by that, I mean, they own more than one hotel, and there might be more than one opportunity there. You know, we wanna work with those owners that know what they're doing, right? They've got some, some governance, sophistication, some decision speed. Hopefully, they've not just made bad investments when they're turning over these properties, but really, they're looking for some performance turnaround in a good investment. And preferably those are longer term holds. As you can tell, we did a lot of hard work for some turnarounds and watched them sell. And they sold largely to owners who had their own management. So that's tricky for us, right? That leads us looking for more opportunities. So in terms of us in aperture and how we see ourselves in competitive points of difference is we've got a group that has hundreds of hotels of experiments. Myself, I've managed about 300 hotels now over the years, and they've ranged from little 60-room properties up to a thousand plus room convention hotels and resorts. And so what we bring is, we've got big experience in our leadership team, but we're in a small package, right? A boutique-sized company that can give more corporate support to property ratio. And we're very data-driven in how we use our decision-making tools to uncover those hidden business opportunities and the potential to drive market share and outperform GOP. Big experience, I'd say that corporate support, the data-driven decision-making process and tools, I think is really what sets us aside. And by the way, I'll just mention that our average RGI that we've achieved in the first 18 months when you put us in place after another management company, the average RGI growth or repar index gains is actually just over 10%. So we've had, like, incredible turnarounds at the top line, which leads them to great bottom line improvements as well. Ryan Embree: Which makes it so much more impressive, too, with the climate right now. And these events that we go to would talk about operating and margins right now, and trying to be just efficient as possible, because costs are, are rising right now. It is certainly difficult to navigate, and I'm sure that experience that you've had has certainly lended itself to some great stories that you can then share to help grow that portfolio. And the other part of the experience that you were talking about is you have the data and the insights. And one of the places you find that data and insights is obviously hospitality events that are going on. I've had the pleasure of running into you at quite a number of these. If I'm not running into you, Charles, I'm seeing you up on stage conducting interviews or, or sharing some of your takeaways on LinkedIn after the event. You got a busy second half of the year. I wanna talk about these events, though, and how you kind of leverage them, right? So, why do you think these events, especially now, are so important? And then, how do you measure success of an event once it's completed, whether that be a lodging conference, an investment conference, or whether it be, just an educational data event? Charles Oswald: Look, that's a really good question. When you consider the time, travel budget, and the opportunity costs on an executive's busy calendar to get out to these conferences and spend three, four days between the travel and the time out there, we've gotta be, we've gotta be very intentional, right, about how we approach it. So, I see value in going to these conferences because of deal sourcing and the relationship capital that we pick up. Also, I think there's that market intelligence and the pricing signals that we get from those from this conference. There's the access to capital markets. That was particularly important for me here recently as I was looking to as I'm in the process of acquiring a property right now in Phoenix, and when we needed to raise LP capital and we had those relationships these are people, again, we met at conferences. I think talent reputation, right, it's important to get out there and continue to manage that. So those, those are a number of the reasons why we wanna get out to these conferences and why we think they're important. But the measure of success, you're right, for a data-driven guy, I wish I could put a specific number to it. Like, here's the ROI from each of these conferences. It's really difficult to. It's really difficult to do, but I can tell you that, I do look back and, and aggregate those. I look at the management contracts we picked up, and I think of, "Okay, well, where did I meet these folks? And so what's the average return?" And I can put a number to that. And I would tell you that in terms of the immediate return, what I'm looking for is if I can have three to five specific follow-up conversations, a result of that conference, then the trip was worth the cost. Ryan Embree: That's great advice for young hospitality professionals out there. I mean, we have a great industry, and one of the coolest parts of it is you get to rub shoulders sometimes with those executives. So even those younger hospitality professionals that might be tuning in here, it's a great piece of advice to when you can, obviously, try to get that exposure of networking and get out there because hospitality is certainly a big world, but it's also a very small world, and you run into a lot of the same people. And again, this, just like you said, Charles, a lot of the stories, success stories, whether it be business relationships, some of those transactions could stem from sitting next to somebody at breakfast - Absolutely. On day two of a conference. Love to hear that advice, love to hear that those stay beneficial, because we love those. We're hospitality people, right? We're in that industry. Now, another thing you become kinda famous for your takeaways articles on LinkedIn. My advice would be to encourage anyone, definitely give Charles if you're not already a follow, because you have some great insights and takeaways from some of the events that he goes to. So I'm gonna kind of put you on the spot here. If you had to do a takeaways article for the first half of 2026, maybe give us a couple points, and then if you could, maybe share some predictions. We're hospitality people. We love to kind of predict, try to predict the future a little bit, so. Charles Oswald: Yeah. Well, maybe, maybe the biggest takeaway from the first half is that we're not great in hospitality about predicting future. Ryan Embree: That's a good one. Charles Oswald: So, as we rolled into 2026, there were a lot of folks that were saying it was gonna be, like, Groundhog Day, that we're looking at flat, very modest, RevPar growth and expenses that, outpace, the top line. And I think what nobody saw coming was US demand growth in the first half of the year. Now part of this, I will tell you, if we look back in some panels, a year ago, I called part of this, which is I asked why is no one talking about the impact of the $30 billion increase in tax refunds that we'll see, plus the real wage growth that's happening, and what impact that could have on our industry? And, and a lot of people kind of poo-pooed and they said, "Well, you know, we don't really know that the tax refunds are gonna be there. We don't really know how those are gonna hit." Okay. But we do. There was some, some mirroring it kinda like during the pandemic when you put money in people's pockets, there were a lot of people that just went out and spent it. And so I did, I think that had a real impact on the, on the first half of the year. And then the other part that none of us saw coming, and I didn't, was certainly there'd be a war in Iran and how the general global conflict can would affect the outbound travel case for the American traveler. So, that outbound travel, international outbound decelerated, right, while domestic leisure demand, stayed strong. So, that helped prop up the first half of the year. So there are some trends from the first half that I think will carry out to the second half. So for not getting in looking forward, I'd say that second half of the year, there'll be more bifurcation. You know, we're gonna see a continuing challenge to new supply growth, and we're gonna continue to see labor costs rising, but at a bit of a decelerating rate. So if I were to expand a little bit on that, on the bifurcation, we've heard a lot of talk about the K-shaped economy. And really in that bifurcation, there's some people talking about this hollowing in the middle class, and, and, and I think that's actually very, very misrepresented. What's actually happened is we've seen a growth generational wealth, over the course of the last 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years. And this is a long-term macro trend, okay? The fact is that there are fewer poor today, about a third less than there were, you know, 40, 50 years ago. There are few, fewer lower middle class, and no longer is the core middle class the largest classification of income in America. But according to the BLS, Bureau of Labor Statistics, it is actually now the upper middle class is the largest class, right? So people are moving up on this continuum, and they're more wealthy. So when you start thinking about that, what does that affect on our industry? That's why we're seeing this interest in, towards experiential travel, towards the soft brands, towards luxury, and why upper upscale and luxury tiers have been outperforming. So I think we'll continue to see that as we go through the end of the year. And the other story I think we'll continue to see is that new supply, right? Man, the plan, I mean, there's, like, you know, 10% supply growth planned. But what actually happens, is just a, you know, a fraction of a percent. And so, in there, the challenge, you know, debt isn't the problem anymore. It's more about equity and construction cost relative to the commercial real estate valuations,in interest rate market environment that we're in today. Ryan Embree: Yeah, so you have a little bit tampered demand, or tampered, building construction because of those construction costs. And do not underestimate, again, the willingness and ability for people and wanting to travel and have experiences. I still think they even the younger generation, they're getting some more money in their pockets, and the first thing that they're wanting to do is plan a nice trip, right, before they go out and, and buy those expensive things that, which was, was typically would happen. Charles Oswald: Yeah, and I wanna just comment one thing though is we've talked a lot about economic resilience, and that resiliency definitely exists in the US, and it's more resilient than a lot of folks probably though it was when you look back in time. However, some of that does seem to be breaking here, right? You know, you are seeing rise of credit card debt. You are seeing some increases in folks, particularly at the mid-scale and, and, and lower income classes defaulting on car payments and things like that. And so if you start to make a decision about, you know, do I travel or do I pay my, my car, that is going to affect the industry, you know, as we go forward. And, and that's gonna play a little bit in that bifurcation that we were talking about. Those who are on the upper end have watched unreal growth for the last few years in their stock market portfolios. You know, they, they feel a little bit more free and, and open travel. Ryan Embree: Yeah, it's interesting. You're right. You know, we always talk about still prioritizing travel, but travel over things. But when tho- those things become, like you said, payments or car payments, then all of a sudden the priorities start to shift a little bit. So it'd be interesting to see how that continues in the second half of this year. Now, another topic we that you're gonna hear at every single hospitality show, it's a bingo card, is AI and technology. And you, and you actually speak a lot. I've seen you on panels speak a lot to it in, in your interviews. Where do you think the hospitality industry, which we've said typically is one to slowly adopt technology? Where do you think we are in this cycle of AI adoption? And then maybe you could zoom in a little bit into your organization and, and where you've prioritized that, or maybe stayed away from it. Charles Oswald: Maybe we kind of break that down into sounds like three or four areas, right? I think, yeah, it's what's the biggest impact today? What's kinda happening now? And maybe where's it going? Sure. And, uh, and how do we play into that as a management company, right? Yeah. So I guess there's four ways. In terms of the biggest impact today, it's for sure it's been, it, it, it's been in distribution, right? Uh, GEO and AEO are the new SEO. And so, um, uh, maybe what's accelerated hospitality is entrance into AI because the customer was using it to search for hospitality, and then all of a sudden we woke up and said what - Ryan Embree: Great point. Charles Oswald: It's not just about keywords, but how, how do we become the answer to the question they're asking? And so that's, uh, that's certainly the biggest impact today is on the distribution side. I think what's happening in progress, we're starting to see more in the areas of revenue optimization and design, right? Like on, you know, when it comes to new hotel renovations and they and developments. And then the future, where's it going? I think we're gonna see AI more in our, more closely integrated into our business analytics, like and that's gonna extend into labor scheduling and productivity. I think we'll see it help us in energy management and procurement. Things like F&B menu engineering both from the creative standpoint and kinda marrying that with the math, right? Like, what the cost of plate is and what the customer's actually buying. And and that's really important. IAnd by the way, that's a weak spot, I think in the industry. There are an awful lot of management companies that are not very good on food and beverage side. So at Aperture, what are we doing? First off, I would say we lean really heavily on our tech partners to adapt, adopt AI for their analytics or reporting insights. And today insights has become the real opportunity, right? I mean, if you ask your BI system, you know, it's one thing for them to be able to pull a report or show you some side-by-side comparisons, but the insights, like, why is this happening? You know, you can tell me, me what my flow-through is, it's great, but, like, what should it be if we had run according to all the budget metrics that, like, that we put out there? They're, they're weak on that side, at least to date. So I think that's gonna be the next step is that is conveying those analytics and reports to insights. And so, we're keenly working with technology solutions that they can implement in those ways, and digital marketing efforts that help us improve the distribution that we were talking about earlier, GEO and AEO. And from a practical day-to-day standpoint, you know, we've incorporated, cloud enterprise solutions in our daily work and our applications, like, you know, Excel and SharePoint, et cetera, like a lot of other companies have. But we got plenty of room, plenty of runway there when it comes to AI. Ryan Embree: Absolutely. Yeah, 100%. So, uh, every day, yeah. every hour, it feels like sometimes with these announcements. Um, but yeah, you, you mentioned something really, really fascinating at the top of that, the answer of, you know, I think the adoption cycle sometimes with technology and hospitality has been slow because we've tried to, sometime, "Hey, download our app," right? We're, we're trying to get the customer to move with the technology that we want them to move into, and the ecosystem that, that, "Hey, you know, do this." And now, what's happening is we're seeing the consumer move into these LLMs and, and AI search, and now hospitality's kind of been like, "We have to catch up because this is where our customer is," right? So maybe that does cause a little bit of, uh, acceleration. So, because that is the biggest thing that we've been hearing as well, is just AI visibility. There is just this, this fear of a couple years ago, it was the fear of doing anything and being like, "I'm not doing anything with AI and technology. Now it's like, now I have. My biggest fear is keeping me up, is I'm not being found on AI, uh, search engines and LLMs." Charles Oswald: Yeah, let me tell you, like, just a great example, I was traveling not long ago, to Chicago, and I had a trip to Nashville, and I was just curious. I just, I went to Google - Yeah. And said, "Hey, what are the, what's the best hotel in Chicago?" And it gave me a list of sponsored results. So it was like, I don't know, half a dozen or so hotels there. And it gave me a list of, like, you know, here's what says, and there's like 20 properties there, and there is, AAA and Forbes, and there was the map and so all this stuff, and I'm like, "Wow, there, there's, like, you know, 60 best hotels in Chicago." And so then I moved over, just out of curiosity, I asked, uh, Claude, "What's the best hotel in Chicago?" Gave me one answer, named one hotel, this is the best. And it gave me a little honorable mention list of three properties underneath it. I thought, oh, my gosh. And then I did the same thing with Nashville. I get one answer - Yeah. And it's honorable mentions. And it really started making me think, oh my gosh, like, like, if, if only one hotel is gonna come up with that, how do I make that money? And, uh, and who is this, who is this, um, generative AI trusting? And so, so, so we began to dive really deeply in that conversation about, like, when, where are these trusted resort returns coming from, and how do we influence that, right? How do we make sure we appear there? Ryan Embree: 100%. Yeah, that's the, the next race right now is to try to figure that out. And that's difficult. Charles Oswald: Kind of back up and just elaborate, just one more comment - Yeah. Is just that, that, like, in Google, I mean, it's, sure, it's trusted. I don't think anybody says that you don't, you don't trust Google on those returns and the 60 properties that it's sent, but - Right. It's returning the results that it wants you to see, the search engine. Whereas Claude, ChatGPT, Grock, others, they're returning the results that, as the consumer, I wanted to see. Ryan Embree: And that's, and that's the, I think that's the difficult because it almost changes into a little bit 40 chess, because I might ask the same question, and based on my search experience, it could look at a different best hotel in Chicago than could be your best hotel in Chicago. Once you go down that. Yeah. Charles Oswald: Are you Going there for business, or is it a wedding, or is the soccer team? Yeah, right. And it, it might know the purpose. It might know lis - a little something about you. You're exactly right. Ryan Embree: Well, uh, uh, listen, I'm gonna take us back before we get to, into that to rabbit hole and, and lose everybody there, because one of my, uh, one of the favorite parts of the conversation, and we've done, you know, now this, I think we're, we're over 200 episodes here, but one of the, one of my favorite parts, uh, places of our conversation, Charles, back when we first spoke, was hearing the origin story of aperture hotels and, and the name for it. And so, uh, I wanted just to revisit that for those who may have missed that episode. Can you share that story again and why this whole shift your perspective, which you can find on your LinkedIn, your website, everywhere, that mindset has really resonated, uh, with, so well with, um, hotel owners, investors, and has, has been an important part of your s - your company's success. Charles Oswald: Oh, wow. Um, you know, thank you for, uh, for asking that question, uh, and, uh, and it's a reminder and the flashback. You know, so, uh, so what is an aperture, first off, right? It's, it, it's, it's in that, you know, that, that, that camera lens that allows light, right, to, to, to pass through, right? So, so it creates a clear, well-composed image. And so I think from a hospitality brand, um, that maps into some of our values. Um, you know, we talk about transparency and accountability. We talk about clarity and vision, right? Like, an owner sees a, a hotel's position, um, uh, potential, and we can help capture it, right? We help focus, bring focus. Precision and control, you know, I, I think that helps, uh, convey into our views on process orientation across the enterprise and, you know, and consistent execution. One of our core values is about being actively curious, right? Like, how do you scratch beneath the, the surface and shine a light on, on what that is, right? And, you know, what can we do to, to make, you know, to reveal those, those, the, the hidden business potential? We think about, you know, when we're walking into the hotel and, and, and we're touring our, our properties and, and, and looking for those, um, those guest experience improvements, it's like, how do we make this, uh, picture perfect for the customer who arrives, right? What that arrival experience, what are the first moments of truth? And so I think all of those things, that, that transparency of clarity, vision, precision control, uh, you know, picture perfect, uh, all these things, um, sort of play into that aperture name. But I'll be honest, there was another part of this, uh, which is that, you know, there's, like, 400 hotel management companies out there, uh, and there's hundreds more that used to be. Finding an original name is admittedly difficult. <laugh> <laugh> Every name you can think of has been, uh, used. <laugh> Sure. Uh, we, we were fortunate, uh, to be able to find something that was original that didn't, you know, pigeonhole us into something like, you know, calling ourselves, uh, Sunbelt Management or something like that. So, so, so that did work out well for us. Ryan Embree: Yeah. Well, I love it because, you know, you, you mentioned at the top that this was, you know, Aperture Hotels was really their origin story started during and during that COVID time, right? During and after that COVID time. And I think it was in those conversations, the companies and organizations that I spoke to that had a very clear North Star, a very clear direction of who they are and their culture during that time, because it was such a difficult time. So to have such a strong kind of name and you have all of those things, I'm sure that is, has been so beneficial for you as you continue to grow and scale, because you need that, right? You need something to kind of lean back onto and be kind of your Compass North, your North Star, however you wanna to phrase it. But I love to hear that. And like I said, it, it stuck with me all these years afterwards, so I wanted to touch on it again. And, um, I saw recently on LinkedIn that, uh, you and your team wrapped up a leadership conference in, uh, New Orleans. Tell us a little bit about that event and how, how instrumental the team has been, and also your, your success over at Aperture Hotels. Charles Oswald: Oh, that is. Well, yeah, that, that, that was a fun time. Uh, first off, getting together, getting our team together - Yeah. For that annual conference is my favorite part of the year really energizes me. Um, you know, I'm so grateful for, for, for, for the team that's doing this work on the ground and, and the leadersh - uh, we have out there in the field. You know, I think often we talk about performance. We send around our balanced scorecard. We measure and we rank people and, and, uh, you know, we talk about process and so on. And that, and that's, that's an important part of the, uh, uh, of what we cover in the, uh, in, in our annual leadership co - uh, conference as well. But, um, but I think when you're rubbing elbows, uh, you know, you're in the same room with everybody. Uh, there's, there's a different level of, you know, preparation, focus, and curiosity, you know, team member bonding and relationship that happens. And, you know, and I love how in the aftermath of these conferences, we, you know, we hear about how, you know, the general manager, you know, in, you know, in the US West, it's called the general manager in the US East, and they're - Sure. They're getting together and collaborating now on, on, on best practices and, and how they dealt with certain challenges maybe that are shared experiences that they're having. So that's where it happens, right? I mean, you get out there in a conference together like this where I think i- ideas get sharpened, uh, perspectives broadened. People learn, you know, here's some insights, and they, uh, you know, share in their experiences. They challenge each other. And, uh, we, and, and we come out of it just, uh, winning together. And by the way, I should mention also, there's some really great food, uh, so - Oh, I know. Yeah, yeah. <laugh> Sorry. New Orleans. Uh, I'm a big eater. <laugh> Ryan Embree: Yeah, that, that helps too. Uh, Charles Oswald: A few extra, but I've never missed one. <laugh> And, uh, New Orleans is a great place for someone to like me, that's for sure. <laugh> Ryan Embree: Yeah. We, well, we talked about how quickly things are moving right now in hospitality, and it's so important to kinda get everybody together in one place. And we've seen how you prioritize, obviously, the, the bigger hospitality events across hospitality. So sometimes to get that dialed in with your team, just so important. And great to hear that that continues to be. 'Cause if you remember back in the day, we were hearing that that was gonna be the end of this, by the way. Everybody was gonna have these leadership conferences on Zoom, and everyone was gonna love it, and nobody was going anywhere. So, uh, love to see that that, that prediction didn't come to pass. Now, you're - Charles Oswald: Yeah, you know, the funny thing about that, Ryan, is - Sure. Is that we're out there in hospitality on the sales front. We were telling our companies, our clients, why they all need to get together. And hospitality companies are like, "Well, but, but we're gonna do it on Zoom." <laugh> Ryan Embree: Right. Right, exactly. Right? We gotta practice what we preach a little bit Charles Oswald: Both Sides of our mouth, right? Yeah. Yeah. And, and enjoying some of the hospitality, uh, that we provide every single day, right? So, so you're headquartered in Atlanta, Charles, you've got. But the portfolio spans across the country, you mentioned it. Are there any particular markets that you're seeing strong opportunities and maybe some that you're cautiously maybe staying away from for a bit right now? Charles Oswald: Well, uh, first off, the Atlanta part. Um, right? I mean, we're, we're the transportation hub of the Southeast, but, uh, arguably the country and the world with the world's biggest and busiest airport. So when we talk about, like, w- where we're willing to go, we've got a competitive advantage from here in the, uh, in that we have more direct flights to more cities across the country and the globe than any other, an- anybody. Else, right? Uh, coming out of, uh, the world's biggest and busiest airport. So, so that's, uh, that's, that's really nice and not to mention there's a, there's certainly a lot of drive markets, uh, that are within four, four hours of, uh, of Atlanta. So, um, so yeah, that makes us pretty opportunistic when it comes to, uh, uh, hotel management assignments. You know, ideally, uh, you know, we're looking, ideally we're, we're looking at, you know, those top 100 or so cities. Ideally, you know, we, we, we certainly have better presence in the eastern half of the US, but we do span from Florida beaches to coastal California. In terms of the type of markets that are, that are more ideal and better fit for us, you know, generally speaking, they're, you know, a lot of the, the southern markets are, uh, you know, certainly performing well. They're business friendly. We avoid union hostility, uh, where, whenever possible, right? Sure. And, um, you know, th- those are the type of markets where we'd wanna go. And in terms of, of the type of hotels, you know, again, I think leaning towards the bifurcation that we know exists in, uh, in the industry that kinda says, you know, you gotta be great at, uh, soft branding experiential properties, right? And some lifestyle assets. And, and so that we're, we're, we're leaning that direction. And you see it in our pipeline. You know, so, so our pipeline includes, you know, includes today, uh, multiple Marriott, Hilton, soft branded assets, like, like Tribute and, you know, and Tapestry Autographs. We also have, uh, some brands like Compass by Margaritaville sitting in the pipeline, right? And, and independent. Um, so, so really cool, exciting places where we get to create our own brand, really, our own store - Yeah. Based off of the building that's there. And all of those new development projects that we're talking about have, um, they have a lot of credit. I mean, that's the only way you can pull these off today is if you're, if you've got historic tax credits, you know, so we've got that in multiple places and hundred plus year old buildings. It's, you know, great stories to tell. Uh, we've got, uh, you know, tax increment financing, PIDs, we've got enterprise zone, we got the CIPLA, you know, many other different factors that have played into making a capital stat that actually works. Uh, and that's the way to, you know, that's, that's the way we're getting it done and, uh, on the new development side. Ryan Embree: Well, those are fun projects, let me tell you. Um, I, I, I'm sure to work on, because it's like you said, I mean, you get to tell a story there. Um, sometimes there's a story already ingrained with these historic buildings that then become a, a key foundational component of, uh, you know, what you're building on, um, so to speak, and, you know, uh, literally and figuratively when, when it comes to your maybe digital story. So, yeah, very, very cool to see. We'll, we'll, we'll be excited to watch, watch those come to, to life. I want to. We're, we're wrapping up here, Charles, but I always feel like it's always my duty, you know, having the privilege to talk to leaders like you, try to just get as much inside advice as I can out of you during this time. Obviously, as a business owner, you know, starting a business never easy, so much vision, resilience, incredible amount of commitment, especially doing one where you started it during a historic time and around COVID, right? But looking back on your journey building Aperture, you know, what advice would you give maybe to the next generation of hospitality leaders? It doesn't necessarily have to be about if someone's wanting to build their own, uh, management company, but e- even just a hospitality professional just now today in 2026? Charles Oswald: That's a good question. You know, some things that come to mind is, uh, it's a one in whatever business you're, you're doing, if, if you're trying to be entrepreneurial and you wanna be an owner, I'd say, you know, choose your partners carefully, right? If you're coming up in the business, I'd say, um, master the numbers, you know, not just your gut. If you're, you know, you're, you're, you're in the hiring seat, uh, uh, as a, as a team leader, I would tell them to, um, make sure they treat people decisions as serious as the capital decisions, right? Very, very important. I think from a business development standpoint, uh, I say those guys that are trying to, you know, build a, a portfolio need to y - learn to, to read the deal and not just as an operation. I think young or old, we should embrace the tech shift. I couldn't believe I, I have some college professor friends, I do some advisory work at several universities, and I listen to, uh, college professors and some students out there, uh, who are very, being very resilient, r- resistant to AI, talking bad about it, they view it as a threat. And, uh, I'm like, "Hey, guys, y'all need to know that we do employ people, employers are looking for those young folks to come out with some experience and exposure and learning, uh, you know, and, and, and to have some insights in how to, how, you know, we cannot adopt AI at our companies." And, and, uh, you know, you're doing an injustice if, uh, if you're resisting tech shift. Uh, so, and lastly, I would say think about your reputation management, right? Like, like, protect your credibility with your owners, with your franchisors, like it's capital, because it is. Ryan Embree: Great advice. Sound, sound about. We got. That was comprehensive. Thank you for, <laugh> thank you for sharing that. No, really appreciate it. Like I said, you know, uh, try to glean as much as I can out of these conversations and share it. Um, all great advice. Um, you know, hopefully we don't have to wait three years next time to have you back on the podcast. Would, would love to catch up with you then, but who knows where, where you'll be and, and the growth, uh, of Aperture Hotels. But what's next? Like, as we wrap up today's final question, kinda what's your vision for the future as you look into the, this latter part of the half of the 2020s, right, for Aperture Hotels? Charles Oswald: Yeah, I think, um, being involved in a few developments is, is, you know, the one side. I'd say there's just ongoing organic growth of, uh, taking on, on, uh, new management contracts, and they'll probably mostly still be through, management company transitions as opposed to actual ownership transitions. And then, look, M&A is on the table, right? We, we've studied, uh, a few other small management companies that we can maybe, uh, acquire or merge in with. And I think that's, yeah, I, I'm continuing to be open to that, uh, that conversation and, and, uh, uh, I hope to probably do just one. Uh, I don't think multiple, but, but, but probably just one that's really the right fit and the right strategic play. Ryan Embree: Awesome. Well, we're excited. It's been cool to watch your journey and aperture hotels from when we first spoke with you to here we are now and wish you nothing but success. So thank you so much, um, for taking the time to, to spend some time with my, myself as well as our sweet spot listeners, Charles. Charles Oswald: Yeah. Thank you. It's great chatting. I appreciate it, Ryan. Ryan Embree: alright. Thanks, everyone. We'll talk to you next time on The SuiteSpot. To join our loyalty program, be sure to subscribe and give us a five-star rating on iTunes. Suite Spot is produced by Travel Media Group. Our editor is Brandon Bell with cover art by Bary Gordon. I'm your host, Ryan Embree, and we hope you enjoyed your stay.