Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / Navigating Your Family Through This Crisis | a timely COVID-19 conversation with John and Sarah Markman of Praying Families

Transcript

Navigating Your Family Through This Crisis | a timely COVID-19 conversation with John and Sarah Markman of Praying Families · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Amy Wicks, and I love to talk about the gospel message your heart was created to hear.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: All things Enneagram and helping you be confident that you are the best mom for your kids.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a mountain mama who somehow ended up on a cul-de-sac in the Medwest.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: I was alone and without family or community.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: But the Lord, He didn't let me stay there.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: He helped me turn my broken-hearted moment into a wholehearted decision to get intentional with my faith, my marriage, and my kids.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: I share broken-hearted perspective with story, but with wholehearted purpose and plans so you can live a life full of confidence and abundance.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: Think of this podcast as your on-the-go mom pal, mixed with a little bit of Enneagram coaching.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: So get to that pile of laundry or hit the treadmill or load up the kids in the car for that grocery run.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: And be ready to be encouraged and challenged while you listen.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: This is the Simply Wholehearted Podcast.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: Hey friends, I'm so glad you're here today.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: We are focusing on conversations about wholehearted growth.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: And even though it feels like signs of growth in spring might be a little bit dulled by the current circumstances, I do believe God is still at work.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's a great topic for us to dive into right now.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I've changed some of my recordings around.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: That way I could share a few current and timely conversations with you during this challenging season to encourage you to keep on growing.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know how you want to read the Bible together with your family?
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe even pray more together.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: But every time you try, you don't know where to begin, and the resistance you experience prevents you from even talking about it?
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well, John and Sarah Markman know exactly how you feel, but they found a way to move past the awkwardness in their home, and they are sharing this step-by-step process that they have used with their family.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: When John and Sarah began to realize that COVID-19 was going to impact us on a global level, well, they knew it was time to share their passion and wisdom about gathering our families for worship in our living room.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: They've put their hands and hearts to this ministry for several years, but more than ever, they are experiencing the fruitfulness of living room worship in their home.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: And they know that this is a resource that will really help you through the season.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: Today's guests are dear friends, and they are someone I've wanted to introduce you to for a long time.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: They've been working the last few weeks to create a resource that will not only benefit you, but so many others.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: Their five-day video series on living room worship is completely free and available to help guide you through the overwhelm and even hesitation of prayer with your family.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: While our church's doors are closed, and even again when they are open, this connection with your family is invaluable.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: I know you're gonna love getting to meet John and Sarah and to listen in on this actionable wisdom that they are offering today.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: Now, because we've been thrown into such a unique season, I wanted to highlight a few resources which I normally offer in the summer months, but I have recently revamped them for our indefinite amount of quarantine weeks.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: I am using them myself for our daily routine and reminding me to connect with my kids spirit, mind, and body.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm all about perspective and purpose, but to me nothing beats a good plan, and I wanted to share a few of mine with you.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: These resources are not highlighted well on my website, but you can find everything you need at the links in the show notes or even on my Instagram profile where you can find a link there.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: You can get a link to the quarantine daily routine, the 50 device-free board and busters, and seven days around the world.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: I've created them with you in mind to help you through these crazy weeks.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I can't wait for you to meet John and Sarah.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: So here's our conversation.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we're such good friends.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: We have a ton of history.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's sort of funny to be doing a call on Zoom because we're just a drive away.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: We're we're not that far.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: We're used to just happening in our car and making time for our families or our kids or you know, meetings.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: But we're we're under stand home orders and it's a new season.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: It is wild.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm grateful though I did read something today which totally confirms what I've been feeling.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: And that is engaging online in this way takes more energy than the person-to-person contact.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I am going, yes, and amen.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for saying that.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: It was a credentialed person who made that statement because I have been feeling the exhaustion.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm I'm grateful for Zoom, I'm grateful for FaceTime, I'm grateful that we can still see faces.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but but it's an it's different because when we're together in body and in close physical contact, we're we're having communication that's just easier and simpler.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so in in a day and age where churches are stepping up and providing so much great content, there's still nothing like having worship together.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so I am excited to share about what Praying Families has to offer for us in the season because it's great we can hop online and do church, but there's nothing like worship in our living room with our people.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so have what has it looked like for you guys during these stay-at-home orders to practice worship in your living room with your family, with your kids?
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what's what's been a life-giving aspect of it for you?
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's it's been already a couple weeks, uh, no, like three, four weeks, and we're looking at several more.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so I know this has been an anchor for you, and I know it could be an anchor for a lot of other friends too.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Amy, we try to do one to two hours of worship a day.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um I love you guys.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: So good.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the the uh yeah, uh so we we have been doing um just worship in our living room, and in this season it's it's nicer.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: What the first thing is it gets us around looking at one another.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, sometimes that happens when we're at the table, but sometimes we're not eating together because of the busyness of schedules.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: So usually for us it's been in the evenings, and um, we're trying to take time for us to process and the kids to process their day and what's happening, what's different, how those can be in prayer, um, how those can be prayer points.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, news is is um I've I I don't remember another time where more news was coming out and was applicable to your day in, day out life.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: So um, you know, the kids are hearing things from their friends on their Zoom calls, and um so and then us on our friends, and did you hear this?
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so kind of taking that in, processing that, and then also just having time to um time to connect with the Lord, time to hear, to read a psalm that says uh something of who God is in the midst of right now.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think there's it is it's pretty easy for me to normally look at my circumstances and and kind of like live life out of what my circumstances might be like.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: Now that seems like all the more easy because there's so much news, there's so much um just noise in the and fearful noise at that.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of people dealing with fear, dealing with the unknowns, um you know within my normal within my job, that's happening all the time, the people that I'm interacting with.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um so that's some of the initial of like just the value of having day in, day out conversation, and then being able to turn to a lord in the midst of it and recognize he's on the throne, he's um not scared, he's not intimidated by the virus, and he's leading us.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, and interestingly, we have a lot more time in the evenings than we were having.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: So we, you know, it's like we suddenly, suddenly we're home and we were looking at each other before COVID hit and going, okay, we probably need to reevaluate our schedule because our evenings are so full that we've we've gotten away from some of our times of doing living room worship.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but then this suddenly has created time where we're now, you know, lots of evenings were able to sit down and do this together, and that has been a blessing.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, the stay-at-home orders are crazy, but in in the sense of family living room worship, that's been able to happen in a way that we were having, we were just needing to re-evaluate because it wasn't happening the way that we were hoping it could.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because you were having to fight for it and making time, which is everyone's issue, right, on a regular basis, because it's sports season now.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: Traditionally, we'd be out on the soccer field and baseball field and running to this end-of-the-year thing and this school activity.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: But now we have this open space.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: So, so for you guys, because it was a rhythm that your family was already familiar with, and it's something that you guys have practiced.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: How do you still make that choice, say, between Netflix and hey guys, let's sit in, do a song together, read a scripture, hear, let's hear about our each other's day?
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: How do you navigate a little bit?
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because that is still a pull while the activities aren't there.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think, especially even as mom and dad, we're tired.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, if we didn't start our day with it, the natural thing would be to maybe try to end our day with it.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what does that conversation look like between you guys and then maybe even with your kids to gather around and and maybe make that time?
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, John, you joked about it being a one or two hour thing.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, that's not the case.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're talking more like a five to ten minute thing.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: So how does that five to ten minutes happen?
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: I think with our kids, if we talk about things that we can look forward to as a family, yeah, um, that are movie watching or playing um a basketball game or flag football in the back, like, and we go, so Friday nights for us are a family night.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so we know that we're gonna eat a eat dinner, eat pizza, and watch probably a movie or something together.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, everybody looks forward to Friday.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what we do.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then we have, I'm trying to think of other, I think having staples like that that you can look forward to, but to go, we know that there are these times that we are gonna do this living room worship together as a family that we're gonna go after those times.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's not that because life happens, stuff happens, and any time that John and I have tried to do a hard routine, it's on paper, check those boxes off, life happens.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, for sure.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but if we have anchors that we look forward to, um then I think coming together as a family, it's almost like you can look forward to it more because you know you're gonna have other times.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like if you have right now in COVID, it's different than if you have the sports.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: But if you have the sports, then you might go, we gotta come together as a family in the morning because our evenings are track, is it's every night of the week, or it's four nights out of the week.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's so I what Sarah's just talking about, I think of two things of delight and discipline, or delight in training, or delight in raising our kids.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: So there's the aspect of we want to teach them to follow Jesus, we want to teach them to um be amazing young men and women as they grow up, but we also want them to feel that we like them and that we really enjoy being around them.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: So doing the activities that are family that are pure kind of playful delight, things that we get to do together, I think that helps when we train or when we're doing something that is, and for Sarah and I going, we like when we sing together.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like part of that has been in our family, like it's a like there's one thing in that it is training a little bit, and it's not always the easiest thing to go, what chapter are we gonna read this week, or what what are we gonna focus on?
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: So there's some like work uh in that a little bit, but also uh the Lord does need us, and it's it's some of the like doing it is the kids like the kids look forward to aspects of it.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so getting the ball rolling to start with is different than keep doing it because they they've had something in the um kind of they know what it is and they have a comfortability with it.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think somebody that's just starting out is going to that's gonna be a challenge that they're gonna have to face.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: I always say the secret sauce of this is Jesus and the Holy Spirit and the presence of God.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's the secret sauce of living room worship is that um eventually God's He shows up and this our spirits are actually refreshed.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so that is the is the like God Himself Um that helps, He He's helping us.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um the other thing to answer your question is how do we do it?
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I think it's helpful that we lead a a ministry called Prank Families.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: So there's there's a but I'm just saying that because there's a built-in accountability for me that has that, and that if you I can't I can't overstate the value of having somebody else that's like a a friend, another family, somebody that you're that you're saying, hey, I'm trying to do this, would you just ask me about it?
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: How's it going?
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: Or have you ever done it?
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: What's it like for you?
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but having uh built-in accountability in a or just to process it with somebody else, very helpful in actually doing it.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's such a good point.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: When John says the word training, I hear it and I think of oh, training the kids, but it really is adult training too.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: It is because Amy, like you said, being tired at night, like I I am so tired at night from homeschooling and then into like everything that we do in the day.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's dinner's over, and for us, a lot of times dinner's over, and we just transition and do that 10 to 15 minutes.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: That's and I have to I have to like choose to do that 10 to 15 minutes because oftentimes my body is going, no, check out, do something else like that feels really good, you know.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, that so it's a it's a training for for John and I just as much as it is for the kids.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: I I think that is so good.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I liken it to doing family meals together.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: For most of us, we hear it's a good idea, we maybe get out of that rhythm because life happens.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so when it's time, when we, you know, when we hear that inspiration and reminded, oh yeah, we need to get back around the dining room table and have meals together and ask good questions and fellowship in that way.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: It is a process to get back to that point of, oh, it's kind of, you know, it's kind of the like, you know, I just kind of think the like wheels being stopped and like turning the other direction.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so I I think for like you said, it's it's adult in training, it's kid in training, it's knowing if this hasn't been part of your rhythm, there's gonna be uh a little bit of navigating of of stopping what is normal to get over to what you want.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's yes, it's as you know, what we're really encouraging people.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I understand people feel like they need to stay informed, but at some point, what we what we need to do is stop the social media scroll.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: We need to stop numbing out and we need to engage with what is in front of us.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it's kind of that same thing.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so this is a normal, this is gonna be our new normal for an indefinite amount of time.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: What are we gonna do with it?
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, family meals, all right, we've been learning that.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: How about engage in this family living room worship?
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: Which, John, you brought up a really great point, the accountability.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: And this is why I wanted to share this conversation when I am.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: We've just celebrated Easter.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's apparent that this was a first Easter of its kind.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, he is risen.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, he is on the throne.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: Thank the Lord we have that hope.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: But it's different, and and now we stretch on to an indefinite amount of time before we can maybe resume life as we once knew it.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: So you guys launched praying families.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: What was it gonna be four years this summer?
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: I can't believe it.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: So, but for you, there's been a lot of transition for your family, a lot of a lot of differences.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what what recently has been rebirthed that has led to this five-day video series that you're gonna be offering?
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, just anyone who wants to begin this practice.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: Probably a number of people saying, hey, uh the coronavirus is here.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: Have you guys thought about um putting out content?
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it's you know, part of it is just our capacity and availability.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: I have a full-time job that I'm doing um and um Sarah's homeschooling full-time our five kids, so or four of our five kids, and then we're learning how to work with our with our baby Grace Um in the midst of it.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: But it's in our arts, and this is there's not, we couldn't think of a better time than now for families, they're forced to be together, and our culture does not um promote family togetherness in the home very much.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's actually a really hard thing.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: So this feels like a little bit of a um a little bit of a time that people can reflect, people can think, what is it that we want, what how do we do how do we do family together in this time, but then we're hoping that this would be um just uh somebody's kind of getting started and getting going and would set a new habit in the in place that would really be fruitful for their family.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I think overall it's just it it's never left our hearts.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it seems like a great time and it seems like a great opportunity for folks to um really reflect, you know.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: People technically, I you know, I I saw a meme or from our pastor that said um that he feels he I'm sorry to the husbands that have promised their wives that they get around to it when they had time.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so just we have time, we have things that are available now to us.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, and I think partly the um, you know, it hasn't touched our our family personally, um, but hearing the stories of people who have lost jobs and who are looking at um just a life change, a major life change where suddenly there's loss and it's on a worldwide level, and it's not just the adults who are feeling lost, but it's the kids too.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: So, how do we create um an atmosphere where we can have dialogue about what's happening on the earth and who God is in the midst of it?
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so it just seems like what an avenue to um both to like like explore God and also do some like grief.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: And loss care for our families that maybe not everybody has the the language or the capacity to do um on their own.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so good.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I I think um the other thing would be the uh the presence of fear and anxiety that is happening in our culture that is so I I think kind of as I don't know if I'm right, but I think of when you have a circumstance that presents itself and then anxiety and fear come out.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: My assumption is that the anxiety and the fear are always there underneath the surface, it's like the iceberg, and so it's actually happening underneath the surface, and so whenever it's not touched, it's going on in somebody's life unchecked.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so this has presented a circumstance of I don't know if God is, I don't know how I'm gonna be provided for in the next three to six months.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so we you know, we're I just I've never heard so many conversations about from my bosses to my co-workers to friends and different family members of we don't know how this is going to work out, and and the amount of anxiety that that has brought up.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so gosh, um thinking of the value for families, addressing that, recognizing it that it's real, you know, we we like our kids praying for us, praying with us, and saying, hey guys, how you know processing it together and thinking, um, man, I would have loved for my mom and dad to do that growing up.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I've we kind of have this, we call it our quarantine routine.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: And it's something that I've revamped, it was the way we do our summer, and I've revamped it for these unknown amount of weeks.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the things I have is hey, connect with mom and dad to share your feelings.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: But you have to make time for that.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: That is not just a quick, hey, how are you feeling?
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's a, you know, you need to make room for a five, 10, maybe 15-minute conversation.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I love how you're using this time for worship in your living room to have those conversations.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it it makes it even safer because then you're addressing it where you have your Bible up there ready and you have, you know, your worship playlist, and you you just have this opportunity to not only dialogue, but to create resolution as as you can read through the Psalms in a similar fashion, where like, why is this happening?
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: I don't understand, but God and be able to navigate that with your kids where you allow the free expression, the honest feeling of communication with you guys and with the Lord, but then also remembering who God is.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: I just think it's that will produce such good fruit.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's why you guys have created this video series.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's just five days of emails with short videos of equipping practical equipping steps so families could could get started after the first day.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we uh we always go back to no one should like we didn't grow up with it being normal.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't in our church, it wasn't really talked about from the pulpit very much.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um it was homeschool conference that that I got turned on to the idea, and then some other men in my life that came along and showed us.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: So that's our art, is it most people?
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's very it's a very foreign idea to do living, do worship in your living room.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: So we we care about it kind of debunking the mystery of it and making it real practical and and helpful that somebody can feel like they're succeeding and doing doing well, albeit kind of a little rough and ugly.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and one thing that we stress, um, just even a dialogue that we had with some friends a little while ago, one of the gals um just expressed that they they she did grow up in a home where they did um like a style of family worship every night, and it was very religious duty, and it was legalism, and it was the kids didn't look forward to it, and so we were so glad to hear her story because it is so far from what our heart is, and um because it ended up being a wound for her and for her siblings, and just to go, oh my goodness, like our desire is that this would be something that mom and dad love to come to, the kids love to come to, and it is it's full of delight, it's full of joy, um, and it's life-giving, um, and not not a rule, not a system, not a religious activity, um, but but something that is um really a delight.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: I see that it's apparent in your family and your kids.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I know you well, not just saying it because I love you guys, but I I see the fruit.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: I see the fruit of it in your kids, see the fruit of it in your guys' life.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: I know how your kids honestly feel about it and they love it.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I know it doesn't go perfectly, but that's part of the beauty of it is that there isn't the there isn't the religious piece to it where your kids are like, oh mom and dad, you know, and I'm sure they they each have those moments because we all do we're human, we have our those moments too.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: But um, but I I just love what I see and I know it inspires me to engage with my family in that way.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: And um it just it's I'm super excited about sharing these video series and stuff with others, and um it's just gonna be good.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that people are gonna be really blessed and encouraged.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: Now, one of the things, just to pivot a moment, because we are, I I really am loving having these timely conversations because we need it more than ever.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: I had a whole lineup, but I felt like the Lord was like, just push it out a little bit because I have some timely conversations, and so we're doing that, but we have to talk about the Enneagram a little bit because if you're a friend of Amy, you have to talk about Enneagram.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, you do.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: And we just need to be reminded, like, you know, that's still real and it plays into all of this.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so real quick, I just I I would love for you to maybe share a little piece of how the Enneagram has helped you guys, maybe as a couple, as parents.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I I personally know plenty of stories, and I just think it would be fun to share one of those with my friends.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so John and I um went on a retreat to celebrate 15 years a couple weeks ago.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_02: And um he brought um the book, The Road Back to You.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I was I I was like, oh, like thinking that's gonna be a lot to cover for us being gone for five days, and we haven't done this in forever.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: And oh um and you kind of made your enemy types ahead of time, and you've you've at least had some like counseling and stuff, so you know a little bit because someone just opening up the book the first time, five days might be a little too.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, absolutely, yes, because we probably I don't know if it's been two years, maybe you were probably a little better probably, yeah.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because um probably you, Amy, have been strategic in um helping us because John and I have done personality tests for like ever.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so the disc and the um Myers Briggs and the animals and um the marriage one, uh he comes from fun country and I come from control country.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so the Enneagram, um, we have gotten like it's given us such a fuller picture of the way that we're wired.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and especially, I feel like you, Amy, have been helpful in um seeing it from a biblical perspective and seeing it from God's point of view.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um and it's been very like um helpful for John and I, with me being an eight, um, wing nine, and John being a two, wing three.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um we come at things very differently.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: And um I'm right, but um but we do we are different, but I'm I'm right.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, just to clarify.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, love it.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_02: And honestly, like it is really like researching it, coming into greater awareness and understanding of um not just the the um the triads, is like the gut or the heart or the thinking.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um it has helped us just I think that scripture about like turning your hearts toward one another.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: I mean that that scripture is about you know the the kids' hearts toward the father and the father's hearts toward the kids, but like in our marriage, turning our hearts toward one another and really helping us to see each other through a different lens, and that's 15 years into it.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um, and then reading that row back to you helped us some, but really it got us thinking about our kids.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_02: And not not, you know, we have um almost 14 down to two.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so there's just there's some mystery and discovery there, but especially with our older ones, we feel like we have some insight into them, and the things that where we might collide, it is helping, especially for me, helping me to come to them and to delight in the things that might make me just kind of stir crazy inside, just to go, oh my gosh, I think this is the way you that God made you.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm gonna choose to celebrate it and try to understand.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: But try to understand, it's like changing our family.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: I I love the way you articulate that so beautifully and succinctly.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: That is the power of that, of turning our hearts towards one another.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I I know in our private conversations, it's been a ton of fun to see how that, you know, for both of us as you as we're navigating these teenage years and and you're also going through toddler years again and just having that conversation and knowing, knowing what also triggers us, right?
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what aspects of their their personality that maybe we've tolerated before, but once we can understand how it, you know, rubs against ours, well, in the end, we can celebrate it when we can look at it in a different way.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I I love it.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: I love the way you say that.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's it's really good.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I personally had fun seeing you guys journey through it and having the conversations over tacos and whatever.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, it's okay.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I think probably for us as well as just understanding ourselves, maybe understanding a little bit more of how we're each wired, and and um something I read.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think I'm a nine, but I have some nine characteristics, and it said, like, you know, nine feels like a conflict is like earth shattering, whereas an eight is like this is a great conversation.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: So um they're feeling intimacy and connection, and this is that's crazy, right?
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: So understanding that, and um, we have some other kind of that um maybe challenger, the challenger in a couple of our kids.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so for me, knowing how I normally would respond, and then and then knowing the kids have a bent towards that can go maybe they're not rebelling right now.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, maybe they're not, um, maybe it's not a rebellious spirit, maybe it's a this is my natural, um, I am gonna push back.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's not it's not that I so um so just understanding that is gonna be a w a hard wiring that how do we help them with with honoring in the context of that?
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the other things is is uh when um training up our kids in the way they should go is is like you know, it's train up your children in the way they should go when they're older that they will not depart.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um so you're not wanting them to depart from the love of the Lord, but the way that they should go is their bents, it's their way, and it's a way of life, and that is we want them to flourish as an eight or as a one or as a not make excuses for hey, I'm just gonna allow this unhealthy characteristic, but uh, we want you to flourish in that and not squash things that are who you're God's actually created you to be.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: So us, um, I think we're in a little bit of discovery with our kids of who they are, how they function, and how we can help shape their future in the context of that.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man, you guys said some amazing stuff.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: I know that parents listening, they're gonna walk away with some new understanding maybe about the Enneagram than they've thought of before, a new way to approach it, which is my heart for simply wholehearted that it would just equip parents in that deeper level, specifically moms.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: But I think, you know, what's great is us moms, a lot of times we learn all the stuff and then we give it to our husbands, be like, hey, check this out.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: This will help you with your fatherhood.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: So so good.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: I love how you both put that.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm glad we wanted to, I was glad you were willing to throw that little bit at part of the conversation because it's really it's really good.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: It really plays into, I think, even as we incorporate family worship, like you said, maybe this isn't coming from a rebellious heart, but a challenging heart.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: And how can even that understanding play into how we navigate worship in our living room with our kids and getting their hearts and all of that?
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's it's really good.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: We could probably talk about that for a couple hours.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: So, which is why you need to create a long, you know, course that people can take and do some speaking and maybe write a book to help some of us.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: But in the meantime, I know my friends are gonna be able to sign up for your five-day worship in your living room series.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: There are gonna be emails that you can read in five minutes and videos that you can get your practical takeaway done in just a couple minutes and get started right away.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to like watch it right before dinner and then, you know, try it out after your meal together.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: But what um while just as people are listening, while they're walking the dog or maybe driving their kids in the car while they while their kids watch a video and they listen to my podcast because that is happening, that's real, to get out of the house.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: You're not even stopping, you're just driving neighborhoods.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what are three steps that we could take to begin living room worship today?
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_02: Well, so we um we we started our first video is really just uh uh how do you begin?
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so we try to make it really simple and just to say um that what you need is a Bible, a song, and a prayer, and then a willing heart.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so John and I just try to um map out like how that simply plays out.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, in a and we say if you've got little kids, then you might aim for five to ten minutes and and that's a win.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_02: And if um if you have kids that are a little bit older, you might do 10 or 15 minutes and then that's your win.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_02: And we talk about celebrating little wins because coming together in the living room for five to fifteen minutes and engaging around each other and the Lord is a win.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, um.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so then the the second one um is how do we read the Bible as a family?
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so we just we try to map out real simply how we have done that.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so like we just say we try to come with um a chapter that is not um 50 verses, but more like 10 to 15 verses, and um just for people to be thinking about who are the readers in your room.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_02: And um, so for your beginning readers, you might be able to help them through a verse, and you start with your youngest, and they feel like really excited that they were able to read, and the rest of the family might have to be patient.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then you work your way up to mom and dad, and so everybody's had a chance to read two or three verses um and and to be a part of it, and um and then just asking some questions.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_02: So sometimes John or I will lead it, but we've also with our older kids talked to them about um taking it on, and um like our daughter led a couple nights ago, and she she just came alive to be the one dividing up the verses and um telling people what to do, what to read.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_02: So fun.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_02: And then at the end of it to be the one asking the questions.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_02: So, what did that mean to you?
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_02: Or who did you see God as in that in that passage?
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_02: Or um, you know, what do you think this meant?
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and that again, if we're talking about a literal 10 minutes, then it's it's not a long, it's a couple questions.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_02: It might be one question, yeah, and that's and that's a that's enough.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um and then the the third video is what does it look like to pray with your family?
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_02: And um John might just open that one up to saying we know that like praying out loud is is it can be awkward, it can be um if it's not something that you've been used to, maybe you do it at church, but you've not really done it much at home, or you you do it by yourself, but you don't do it with your spouse or with your kids.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like it genuinely, I remember when we first started to pray together, even you know, at the beginning of our marriage, it was awkward, and then singing together was even more awkward totally so so it's real, it's keeping it real that um so it's just starting small.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um and in we just talked about like how you can take the scripture that you read, and if if you're not comfortable just praying your own prayer, you can actually take a verse out of that passage and just pray it and have somebody, and then you you have um one of your kids, you say, Okay, if you want to open it in prayer, you want to close it in prayer, we generally um sing a song, read the verse, and then close it in prayer.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_02: And um to if if the if your kid is comfortable praying out loud, then they close the time.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: The only other tip that I would suggest is praying.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: Just asking God for help in your family, just asking husbands and wives, and just asking for God's grace and his help to be able to do it and um talking with the Lord about it is probably the one of one of the great secrets of how family worship and doing it in your living room, worshiping in your living room gets the same.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I would almost suggest that.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like if if this piques somebody's interest and you go, I don't know how we would get our family together in the living room.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know to ask the Lord, would you help us?
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe that just becomes uh a prayer that husband and wife prays, they're going to bed for a week.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_02: Would you help us to come together in our living room?
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_02: Because this is really foreign and we can feel it there'll be pushback or we don't have the time, or and I feel like for John and I can continually in our marriage, when there are things that seem too hard or but they're in our heart because it's a value, if we start to pray and ask God for help, stuff happens, and there's a turning, turning around of something, and all of a sudden we're doing what was a value in our heart, but it wasn't out of our own effort.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_01: That is a good word.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like we kind of had some church today.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_01: I know this is so good.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: You guys, I I love you both so much, and I am obviously wholeheartedly passionate about this ministry and what you guys are doing and the lives that you're you're impacting through this.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that my friends are really gonna benefit from just hearing this conversation and then also just I'm gonna have a link in the show notes where they can find out more.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, prayingfamilies.org is where they can find more information and just follow along in this journey as they journey through it and find that support.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you don't have a friend or neighbor you can call to say, hey, help me with this.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: You have the Lord and you have the Markmans and praying families that will definitely gather around praying for you, encouraging you in this spiritual endeavor.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: So excited.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Amy.
• 44:30
  unknown: Yeah.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, obviously, I'm a big fan of John and Sarah Markman, and I am so grateful for their ministry and passion to help equip families like yours and mine.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_01: You can get their living room worship series at prayingfamilies.org or send me an email or even a direct message to let me know if you need more information.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_01: And if you know a mom who could use some encouragement during these crazy times, share this conversation with her to let her know that you are praying alongside of her.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_01: Next week, we'll be back with another new and timely conversation.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_01: Be sure you are subscribed so you don't miss an episode.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: So, until next week, let's pursue perspective, purpose, and plans for a simply, wholehearted life.