Latest / Intentional Guy / Your Blessing Is Your Brokenness
Transcript
- Brian Gray: I came home from work one day and was I was ringing the bell trying to get in. I'd forgotten my key. I was ringing the bell trying to get in. I then I rang the manager's apartment and they buzzed me in. And I went upstairs and the door was cracked open. I went into the bathroom and I found Jamie bound and gagged naked, tied to a radiator Michael Chestnut: Hm. Brian Gray: with a with a superficial cut. across her throat. Michael Chestnut: Hmm. there's a lie a lot of guys believe. It says once you've got a record, once you burn it all down, that's just who you are now. But my guest today, he was an addict, homeless, and he even has a rap sheet. But to date, he has spent two decades on the mission field in three countries and just wrote a book that says your worst chapter doesn't get the right ending. Brian Gray, welcome to the show today. I'm so happy to have you here. Brian Gray: Thank you. Honored to be here. Michael Chestnut: Nan, I y you're my second guest that I've got to interview since I I've had my medical bout here. And I've really wanted to dive into your your book. because I just I first off, I love real stories, but I also love real stories where you can see God's redemption power come into play. And I'm happy to have you here today. And if you don't mind, I just want to hand it over to you. I want you to tell us about who you are, tell us your story, tell us about what God's done, what's led you to to the things that you have been able to do now, to this book, Brian Gray: So yeah, hi, I'm Brian Gray. And I I wrote the book Rhapsheet to resume. It's a hybrid memoir, meaning it's it's my story, my testimony, my journey to to God and my deepening relationship with the Father. And it's also a a tool and a map for people that maybe thought that that the that everything in their past has disqualified them. But the reality is is that your blessing is in your brokenness. And it I'm empirical proof that it's like everything that would have disqualified me in life actually qualified me. My lived experience has allowed me to now I've been an adolescent substance abuse treatment counselor, a missionary overseas, and I'm still a missionary. now I work in a Christian children's home as a supervisor. And my wife and I run a women's transit transitional home for recovering women, women who graduated from a Michael Chestnut: Mm. Brian Gray: program called Recovering Hearts run by our church. So my s my story begins when I was four years old and it was, you know, I just turned 60 myself. And so that was back in the day when kids could like kind of run around a neighborhood and not not have to worry about being kidnapped or picked up by a predator, theoretically. Michael Chestnut: Right. Brian Gray: And I was my mother had a rule in those days. I was only four years old. It was a little young, but my mother had a rule in those days, you're either in or you're out. You're not tracking mud in and out of the house all day. So I usually decided to be out. And I was down about maybe, maybe a quarter mile at the most, down the road at my friend Jeffrey Carpenter's house. And we're playing Cowboys and Indians and and then all at once his older brother came out of on stood on the porch and he had this big gun and he said, This gun is real and I'm gonna kill you. And I was four and I one hundred percent believed I was about to die. And so I ran as fast as I could getting to my house. And in retrospect, I remember they were chasing me. And I remember looking behind me and seeing the the spring where the ping pong ball went. So it wasn't a real gun, but I believed it was, and I believed I was gonna die. And when I got to the door, I was banging on the screen door saying, Mommy, mommy, let me in, let me in, they're gonna kill me, they're gonna kill me. And she came to the door and looked out and goes, go fight your own battles. Right. Now Michael Chestnut: Mm. Brian Gray: the boys were gone. Because they were terrified of my mom and but I didn't know that. And so there was right then and there the seed got planted. You have to fight your own battles. You're on your own. Nobody's gonna protect you. And I believed that. And you know, for the next several decades, I spent my life fighting my own battles. And if there weren't any battles, I would create battles just so I could prove to myself that I could fight them, b basically. And so You know, I my my family was pretty messed up and I didn't realize at the time how it was until I was about I remember going to school and it must have been second or third grade, maybe when all my friends' parents were together. Nobody was divorced. I mean, I guess people got divorced in those days, but it was kind of kept on the down low. And And my mother decided that she was an oppressed woman, oppressed by the patriarchy, and she didn't know why she had to be married and she wanted to do something different. And so she decided that, you know, it was about two years after that that summer that she decided that she was done. And I I saw my f my family unravel, you know. It took a it took a number of years before my parents actually got divorced, but I was about, I don't know, thirteen. Going on 14, when my my mother was sitting on the stairs of a house that my father was building. It had three walls, and one wall was just insulation. And she told me that she was leaving and she was leaving me with my father because he needed somebody. And I you know, I took that as as just rejection, which was kind of resonated with that with that first rejection when I was banging on the door. She wasn't there for me then, she wasn't gonna be there for me now. I was rejected. So I was unlovable. And and so I discovered alcohol. My dad just went absolutely crazy. I don't know if you ever heard of an organization called Est, but it's it was like a it was like it was basically a cult, basically. And he would come home and tell me things like that they were they had him they did sleep deprivation and made them watch porno movies, pornography. you know, the whole entire time. And the idea was to get rid of those like silly moral things that were in the back of your mind Michael Chestnut: Hmm. Brian Gray: so you could be free and do whatever you wanted. I mean it was like knowing what I know now, it was overtly satanic, you know. But Michael Chestnut: Right. Brian Gray: but he went he went completely he went completely crazy, was sleeping with a different woman every night and he would give me he would tell me stories and things like that. And I was just like, what are you telling? I even I knew then, what are you telling me this for? And Michael Chestnut: Right. Brian Gray: And so, but I discovered alcohol. And long story short, alcohol, I've got the genetic predisposition for alcoholism. And and I had the the f first time I drank, it was like one is too many and ten thousand is not enough. It was like I loved Michael Chestnut: Right. Brian Gray: it. It was the answer to all my problems. It just made me feel so good, so courageous, everything was fine. And so by the time I was fifteen, I was a full blown alcoholic. And And then there's just all the chaos that goes with with addiction. And being left on my own, my dad went and moved with in with a a lady about 20, 30 miles away. And he would come back to the house that he was allegedly building, and throw some money on the table and go, is that enough for food? And I'd be like, Well, what am I gonna waste that money? That's good drinking money. Why would I waste that on food? So there there were times when I would eat make like flour cakes and eat lettuce and dexatrim and stuff like that just to like curb the hunger because I want to spend my money on alcohol. And I did. Michael Chestnut: Hm. Brian Gray: And you know, so I you know, I somehow by this it was a gift. I think they just wanted to get rid of me because I was a wild, wild kid. You know, we just did the craziest, craziest things and and and I so I managed to somehow graduate from high school and I was I remember sitting there looking at a well I mean let me backtrack a little bit. I I was on my own at 14, and then right around the time I had where I'd gotten my driver's license, my mom decided that she was needed to come back, they needed to get back together again for the for the sake of the kids. And I was a complete, complete wild child, wild man, completely uncontrollable. And I was just like, What who are you? You're not telling me what to do. And so I ended up my dad had lost his license allegedly for For getting too many speeding tickets. I think he might have gotten a probably got a DUI, he just didn't admit it. And and so I had I had got my license because he needed someone to drive him. And so it was one weekend we took he had a a scout, an international scout, and I went with my best friend David Barby, and we went driving around and it started to snow. And we were drinking, and I was pretty drunk, and we crashed into a slid and crashed into a pylon and the the the car was still running so we're just like okay that's fine so I was driving up driving up a hill towards towards where I lived and one on one side there was a bank and on the other side there was a hill and I started to slide and I I had a bright the bright idea well I was just gonna kind of like skid up the bank and come down and get control of of it but I didn't see the boulder there that I hit and somehow Michael Chestnut: Mm. Brian Gray: we managed to roll the scout up the hill and so the The police came, my dad came, clearly I was drunk, you know. And I just I remember my dad angry putting up his fist to punch me in the face. And the cop that that was there saying, Hit him, hit him, dad, hit him, just go ahead and hit him. And I broke away and I ran into the woods and slept into the woods in the woods that night. And when I woke up the next morning, I didn't freeze to death, which is another miracle of God. I went back to my house. My mother was on the phone with her mom, with my grandma. Telling her that, you know, I don't want him, Mom. I don't care. I don't care. I don't want him. I don't want him. And I was like, fine. Okay. Good. So I packed my stuff and I went down the road to to a friend's house whose mother was a born-again Christian. And she would take in Wayward Boys and just let them stay there. And so I ended up living there. And my first mattress was just a piece of foam from I guess ripped out from a car seat. But I had a place to live. And then I stayed there. And eventually I I got a job and I paid $120 a month for to cover food, everything, all my living expenses. I was a dishwasher. And so I'd go to school by day and work at night and drink on the weekends. And but that was the first person. Her name was Connie Gasdyre, and and I just remember she never really preached at me or anything else like that, but it was just like She had the fruit of the spirit, love, joy, peace, pace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, and self-control. Like just like immovable, right? No matter what happened, what anybody did, no matter what anybody said, she was just a light, you know. And I just remember just thinking, and she was also disabled, you know. I think she'd had a stroke. And so she couldn't use her her left arm and she had a speech impediment. And but she had like the joy of the Lord, like you you just it was unmistakable. And so I just remember just thinking, that's weird. That's just that's a that's really weird. But anyways, I Michael Chestnut: Mm. Brian Gray: I graduated from high school by the skin of my teeth with a D minus minus average, I think. And I didn't know what to do with my life. I had nowhere to go. And then that was nineteen eighty-three, and the Marine barracks, US Marine barracks in Beirut got blown up and two hundred and fifty Marines were killed, and I was just like and I just watched Rambo one when that first came out, the first episode of Rambo. Michael Chestnut: Yeah. Brian Gray: And I'm just like I really identified with him being so disenfranchised and walking around and isolated and and I'm just like, well, I haven't been to war, but that's how I feel. I'm gonna be that guy. So I joined Michael Chestnut: Mm-hmm. Brian Gray: a Marine Corps. And you know, I I I did very well in a Marine Corps in a controlled environment where the discipline was imposed upon me, right? Because I hadn't had Michael Chestnut: Right. Brian Gray: discipline as a kid. So I You know, I had a f couple of like bouts where I went and drank, but then it was like the consequences were too scary. And I realized like Michael Chestnut: Yeah. Brian Gray: I better just stop this, right? And I was able to stop while I was in the Marines. And you know, I met I met a married woman who was allegedly gonna be getting divorced, I guess. And and she and I was Totally head over heels in love with her, and she got divorced, and we were gonna get married. And just still like completely just living absolute life of debackery, right? And and then there was this guy in my unit, his name was Lance Corporal Richard Stant from Jake Jamaica, Queens, New York. And all of a sudden, out of nowhere, he stopped participating in the usual f forms of Marine Corps recreation, which were drinking, whoring, and fighting. Michael Chestnut: Mm-hmm. Brian Gray: He just stopped and he started going to church. And and I was just like weird. And I would just mock him and persecute him. And everybody would be laughing. And then I remember one day this gunnery sergeant came to me and he's just like, he said, he said, you know, he said, I I belong to this group. And it's like when I joined the when I joined it, they said they showed me this book and it kind of scared me a little bit. He said, but he said, you can have anything you want. You can have women, you can have money, you can have drugs, you can have anything that you want. You know, and I remember feeling like this just like ice, ice cold. It was like an ice cold cloud that that came over me. And I was just it absolutely freaked me out. And I'm just like, I'm good. Thanks. Michael Chestnut: Mm-hmm. Brian Gray: Right after that, I ended up on on a hill in the Mojave Desert with Lance Corporal Richard Stamp in his Bible. And and and he he you know he he I was just like okay he was bugging me, bugging me, bugging me, read it, read it, read it, just read it. And I'm just like, fine. I'll read it. Give your Bible, right? So I read all four Gospels, and I was just like, This is dumb. Why do they tell the same f story four times over? Why don't you just why don't you just tell it once? That was good enough, you know? And then that was it, you know. But it's like God was working in me and seeds were being planted and watered. And I didn't even I didn't even know it, you know, at the time. So yeah, long story short, I got I ended up getting out of the Marine Corps because I was going to my original plan when I joined the Marine Corps was to become join Force Recon, which is a Force Reconnaissance Battalion, which is a little bit like Green Beret seals like special forces. And I could never get an opportunity to try out for it. And when the when I it came time to discharge, they wanted me to re enlist and they said, So, you know, if you re enlist, we've got you a ch a slot. You can, you know, you can take the indoc force recon and you can go to jump school and everything else. And I went home and I and I told this this woman, Sheila, and she said, Well if you if you do it, you're gonna do it without me and I was like, never mind. So And I I I got out of the Marine Corps and within I don't know, within about a month I found out she'd been cheating on me the whole time, you know. But so I I got out of the Marine Corps and I remember I I I left my father called me and and asked me if I wanted to come back and live with him. He'd been divorced from my mom for a second time and Which is that's a crazy story in itself. But he he w he said I could come and live with him and work and go to school and everything like that. And I said, Well, okay. I I went in and I and I tried that and then I worked for and went to college for a while and I did really well in college. You know, I was carrying like sixteen credits and at a three point eight five GPA and I was working full time, and then I started drinking again, and that all went out the window. And Around that time I I I stopped my dad in the house one day. I said, Dad, like, can I ask you a question? So if there was one thing that you would change in your life, go back and change and do over again, like, what would that be? And he looked at me, he goes, I wouldn't have had effing kids. You guys ruined my li my marriage. And I was like Michael Chestnut: Hm. Well. Brian Gray: J. And and I just went gangbusters drinking and everything just unraveled. I ended up in Michael Chestnut: Mm. Brian Gray: I ended up in Rochester, New York, homeless and wandering the streets. And I found this this AA club that was open from like eight AM to like twelve AM every day. And it was wintertime, so it was it was you know, it was a good place to hang out. And that's where I met Jamie, my my ex wife. And she was a heroin addict and a prostitute. I had I completely put that out of my mind and denied that, you know. But I really formed a trauma bond with her, you know. She'd come from a rough Michael Chestnut: Right. Brian Gray: background, I came from a rough background, and we just bonded together, Michael Chestnut: Mm-hmm. Brian Gray: and I thought that was love. And Michael Chestnut: Right. Brian Gray: we ended up having a son. And but you know, that was like it's interesting that like I remember The day that we actually got together, she had gotten an apartment and I had gone to a church and I had actually gotten baptized. And I was walking down the street and and it was one of the few times when I when I heard the near audible, only two times when I heard the near audible voice of God. I say near audible because it was just such a reverb reverberating thought in my mind it was it was the Lord that was speaking. And he said, Go straight. And I went right into Jamie's house. And what happened Michael Chestnut: Mm. Brian Gray: was ten years of just abject chaos, adultery. I mean, she would she she continued to like, you know, prostitute herself and I would be like in denial because she had a drug addiction, opiate addiction, which progressed to to a heroin addiction. And and then one day I I I I'd gotten a job in a hospital. I was a a surgical technologist, and she I came home from work one day and was I was ringing the bell trying to get in. I'd forgotten my key. I was ringing the bell trying to get in. I then I rang the manager's apartment and they buzzed me in. And I went upstairs and the door was cracked open. I went inside. I had I I had two kids at that time, and and the kids were fine, and then I went into the bathroom and I found Jamie bound and gagged naked, tied to a radiator Michael Chestnut: Hm. Brian Gray: with a with a superficial cut. across her throat. Michael Chestnut: Hmm. Brian Gray: And she never told me exactly who the guy was or what happened or anything else like that. But but she I we we put her on a on a bus and sent her to Utah and then from and then I followed. And then from Utah we went to ended up on Kawai homeless on Kawaii, Hawaii that just got hit by the hurricane. And Michael Chestnut: Hmm. Yeah. Brian Gray: And things settled down a little bit. I found a job. We got an apartment, you know, about a month later, and and things seemed to settle down. And then I don't know, maybe six months into it, everything started to pick up again. She would come home saying w beaten up saying she'd been raped, and then one time she came home and told me that she'd been been beaten and raped by the police. Which not true, but she she said she had and I believed it at the time. And I was like, I was completely out of my mind at that point. And and she yeah, I was I just was out I I was at the point where I think if she had like pointed out somebody out in anywhere in public and said that's a guy, I might have killed him on the spot. Michael Chestnut: No. Brian Gray: And so I I ended up in a bar that turned out to be a cop bar. And with the cops that she said had raped her and I was just like, Well, I can't do anything. I was really, really drunk, but I remember realizing that I couldn't do anything to it anything about that. And so I went to my apartment, which was next door, and I grabbed a screwdriver or a knife or something. I was 'cause it wasn't in a blackout, it was more of a gray out. Like I remember bits and pieces, Michael Chestnut: Right. Brian Gray: but not the whole stream of things. And I went there and I popped all the tires in the parking lot. And it was the entire vice squad. And and And so that's not something you do in Kawaii, Hawaii, especially if you're you know, if you're a foreign guy, not not born and raised there. And so the judge they they sent me to a drug treatment program for 30 days. And I came back and I thought that I'd done really well, and I thought that I was gonna be set free. And the judge asked me, Well, are are you planning on leaving the island? And I said, No, no, no, my my kids are here, everything. I'm I'm not leaving the island. said fine. Well, in that case, I'm remaining you into the custody state of Hawaii for a period of five years. So Michael Chestnut: Wow. Brian Gray: I was sitting in there, I'm like, I'm looking at guys that are getting child you know, being arrested for child molestation, getting a year, and I was getting five years, you know, but you it's, you know, there's a lot of nepotism and things like that. And so it's but but That being said, it turned out to be, I always say that my current wife now is the greatest blessing I ever had. But my my that besides that, going to jail was the greatest blessing. It was the mercy of God, you know? And at the time Michael Chestnut: Mm-hmm. Brian Gray: it was like it seemed like the worst thing ever, but it was the mercy of God that came into my life. So I I I was in this program and it was called the Lifetime Stand. It had like Christian overtones. There was a lot of Christian, Christian ministry that came in in. and but I was completely, I mean, completely out of my mind. She also went to jail for forging opiate prescriptions at the same time. And you know, I was there for 18 months and I thought that I had I knew everything that I needed to do. They put me out on parole. My plan was I was gonna get my family back, I was gonna get my marriage back, my wife back, and everything. And so I I was living in this place that no alcohol was allowed. There was one other guy living there and he'd been kind of like sneaking alcohol and I knew it and I just was like, you know, I don't know. I'm not gonna you do you, I won't worry about you. And so I didn't I didn't expose the worst list deeds of darkness, I just let it be, right? And so, see, I I I was talking with my ex-wife, and she said, Well, as far as I'm concerned, we're divorced, and you can file the paperwork if you want, but we're done. And I walked into the kitchen where this guy was, he had a 40 ouncer up to his lips. And he's like, gosh, no, no, no, no. I'm just like, just I knew you'd been doing it the whole time. Don't worry about it. He goes, Really? He goes, You want some? Michael Chestnut: Mm. Brian Gray: Give it me. You know what? I have nothing to live for, Michael Chestnut: Yeah. Brian Gray: anyways. So then I ended up on just really, really gangbusters drunk. I ended up on a beach, stumbling around like I call myself like a male Goldilocks. I stumbled into a vacation rental and opened the refrigerator, and I vaguely remember eating cold fettuccine alfredo out of one refrigerator. Stumbled out of there, stumbled into another one, tried to lay down on a couch. And this guy came out of his bedroom and he's like, dude, you can't be here. You can't be here, man. You gotta leave. And I'm like, all Michael Chestnut: Hm. Brian Gray: right. And I w walked out. Then I walked into into another yard and I was trying to get into the jacuzzi, I guess, because I I was trying to get the cover off. It was pinned down, making a lot of noise. And this guy, and I think the guy's like, I'm from I'm in Tennessee now, and I'm pretty sure the guy was from Tennessee. And he's like, Fran, you can't be here. And I said, and I'm like, Please, please, I just need somebody to talk to. And I was making a lot of noise, I guess, because a neighbor came with a shotgun. And he was on I was about maybe Michael Chestnut: Mm. Brian Gray: I'm gonna guess maybe seventy five feet, hundred feet away on a berm by the beach, and he was standing there and I saw him and the guy wouldn't talk to me or anything. And I was just like, you know what? I'm done. I I'm just done. And I charged him, screaming, shoot me. And and I don't know. Like w I know he fired. I don't know what direction he fired in, you know, but I saw a blinding white flash of light and I fell down. And I thought I was dead. I just assumed I was dead. And and I I I looked up and I saw a really scared looking guy with a shotgun running away and that I heard that same near audible voice. This is the last time. Michael Chestnut: Mm. Brian Gray: And at that point I'm just like I like I didn't even get into all the times that God saved me, you know, just blatantly, no questions about it. It was divine intervention that kept me alive Michael Chestnut: Right. Brian Gray: all throughout my addiction. But I I took it as like God saying, like, this is the last time, like I'm done with you, dude. Like I am so sick and tired of of trying to like save your butt. Next time I'm taking you out. This is it. Okay, got it. And I was like, okay. Whatever, you know. And then of course the police came, it was a parole violation for trespassing and drinking. They they took me back to jail and I'm laying on a in a holding cell. All the guys that were in there that were also taken back were laughing, like, ha ha ha, you said you weren't coming back, you know, here you are. And I had my head by the toilet and I'm just like, I'm like, what am I doing? And that's where it was like the Lord just impressed upon me, it brought me back to that memory that I'd completely forgotten that time with Jeffrey Carpenter at his house, and he said, This is the last time means this is the last time you fight your own battles. Michael Chestnut: Hmm. Wow. Brian Gray: And so but in but so not getting shot, that's miraculous. And I don't have an explanation for that. Maybe he fired over my head, maybe to the side or whatever. But the blinding white flash of light wasn't a muzzle flash, right? This is the last time that this is the last time you fight your own battles. But I'll tell you, like I I didn't go I didn't get into all the details of all the ways I tried to get clean and sober. I went to day treat I you know outpatient treatment, inpatient treatment. I tried celebrate recovery hadn't started at that point yet. But I went to AANA. I even like my wife wanted said was willing to go become a Mormon. I tried to become a Mormon for a little while just because I'm like anything to get some stability into our lives, you know. And you know, absolutely nothing, nothing worked at all. But in that moment, when I heard this is the last time, I was delivered. I have never had the desire. to use a drink or a drug ever since that day. And then that was the crossroads. That was a point where my life changed and went in the direction that it is now. And so they took me back to jail and they sent me to a a a a prison treatment program Oahu. And you know, there's a there's a whole lot of stories with with all of that. But you know, I at at at towards the the end of my treatment cycle they the my counselor looked at me and said, you know, you would be a really good substance abuse treatment counselor. He's like, you Michael Chestnut: Mm. Brian Gray: know, if if you if you would deny your parole and and stay here, you could work as a peer counselor and then you could actually earn hours towards becoming a certified substance abuse counselor in Hawaii. And I wrote in my journal at that time, literally, a pig will fart on the moon before I saw decide to be a peer counselor. 30 days later, I was a peer counselor. Because a man makes his plans, but the Lord directs his steps, right? So Michael Chestnut: Is it isn't that amazing how God does that too? Because w we think we got it figured out just right. And got you know, the way God always changes things around to me is amazing because it it it makes no sense. Most of the time, how he changes the the page for us is a way that most people would look and and would be like, There's no way I'm doing that. There there's just no way. But you know, I liked what I like about this first part of your story is you said your blessing is in your brokenness, right? And I've heard you say, you know, jail is a a mercy of God. And being able, what I think is great and what at times a lot of men miss is we see all the crap around us. We see all the Chaos we're causing, maybe, but we're still trying to do things on our own. And and what we often lack is the ability to to surrender something to God. But I witnessed something that you said earlier here when you you almost I forget how you phrase it. I like, I actually like how you phrase it, so I gotta write it down and steal it from you. But where you almost audibly hear the voice of God. And there were so many times in my life where that happened to me and I purposely ignored him. And had to pay the consequences for that. You know, but I'm so thankful that me and you both serve a God that, you know, gets to the point where he said, and and I love this, that this is the last time you'll have to fight your own battle. Because he already knows. He already knows the plans he has for us. He already knows the stupidness that Brian Gray was going to do. He already knew all that stuff. None of that is a shock to God. So now I'm excited about this next part of your story because the turnaround, finding God in that moment, tell us about that. Brian Gray: So, you know, I I I I'd like I said, like I'd heard the name Jesus. I'd heard of God, you know, I knew about a Bible. I never read that Bible right, except for that time with R Richard Stamp, you know. And but ironically, my my grandmother was a missionary in China in nineteen twenty nine to nineteen thirty five, you know, and I Michael Chestnut: wow. Brian Gray: I wasn't really close to her. but I think it's because my parents wanted to hide some of the dysfunction and chaos from her. But but I she was another one that I remember just so distinctly, just having this like peace and fruit of the spirit about her. And just like she would walk by and and see a flower in the field and just be mesmerized with just just filled with gratitude and appreciation. I remember that. I thought she was crazy at the time, but now I appreciate it. But I'm pretty certain that she was she was praying for me. She died before I had my y my conversion, you know, but But I'm I'm I'm certain Michael Chestnut: And I'm sure she was. Brian Gray: that she was praying. Yeah. So that that's one thing. And so, you know, I and my my mom's side of the family were they were Catholic in name only. I call them chinos Catholic in name only. They would go to church on Easter and and and maybe Christmas, you know. And but then at one point I was going to I got sent to catechism and I was even an altar boy for a little bit and I got kicked out of catechism for asking too many questions, I guess, Allegedly like, why does the priest want all blood in his cup and no water? It's the things like that. So I got I get kicked out of catechism and so like I'd heard bits and pieces of the gospel, but it mo mostly I just thought it went in one ear out the other, you know? But the reality is God was sending people to plant and water all my in all my life, you know. And I and Michael Chestnut: Mm. Yeah. Brian Gray: I forgot to mention in high school I'd had a I I'd had to take a language to graduate at that time. And so I wanted to take Spanish, but it was full. And then French, they there was a French class, but I I didn't I I didn't want to take French because that was like all the kids that made fun of me when I was were in that class. And so I I took Latin with with her name was Mrs. Saint Germain. She was a Gideon. I had no idea, you know, and I would like That's and I became an evangelical atheist at that point. I'd run around saying there's no such thing as God and I can prove it, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I would tell her this and I'd I would think I was just undermining all her arguments. And she would just look at me and say, Brian. Michael Chestnut: Yeah. Brian Gray: Just smile. Same thing, fruit of the spirit, you know, just like imperturbable. And you know, and so all these people in retrospect were there. God was sending and putting in my path to plant and water, plant and water in this hard, hard soil here. And you know, and it all just finally converged in that moment on the beach. And so, you know, then when I when that happened and and I was back in jail, I really started to dig in. I went to all the Bible studies I could to. I went to like the cleansing stream. I don't know if you've ever heard of that. It's like a it's kind of a group deliverance type, you know, guided repentance thing. And and more of a guide, I would I would say I w I like to call it more of a guided repentance thing. But I did that like six times and I just like and I had mentors and I just really, really pursued and let other men come into the jail and speak into my life. And you know and I and gradually over the process of time my my thinking changed. And when your thinking changes, you know, as a man thinketh in his heart so he is and that's re and that's absolutely true, you know. And And so I I you know, I was delivered on the beach, my sanctification and transformation began to take place, you know, in jail. And that's that's where I I, you know, Romans twelve one and two offered my body as a living sacrifice. No more hands up to the police or people with guns, but it it was Michael Chestnut: Right. Brian Gray: you know, surrender to the Lord, like your will, Lord, not my will. And And you know, and then there was the whole part which I think a lot of people get stuck with don't be conformed to the ways of the world, right? And that's the don't do what I always did to get what I always got. And that takes some perseverance, right? Because usually Michael Chestnut: Right. Brian Gray: we say we're not gonna do it and then we do it and then we don't, and then we do it, then we don't. And it's just finally eventually the transformation by the renewing of our minds takes place, you know, when we really Michael Chestnut: Right. Brian Gray: stay in the word of God. And and that's what I did. And you know, I got out, I was working for a landscaping company and for about a year and I started doing prison ministry and by prison ministry I mean like I would take a van, the church van, go to the jail, pick some guys up from the jail and bring them to the church and then drive them back again, sometimes take them out to lunch. And one day this this crazy lady comes up to me and she goes, Hi, my name's Kathy. I heard you can get me into the prison. I'm like, how long do you want to be there? Michael Chestnut: Ha ha ha. Brian Gray: But it was we we actually had a mutual friend that that was bringing he was a retired pilot that would bring Bibles into the jail and she'd asked him how do I I want to minister to the women 'cause she'd been called into prison ministry. She'd read Chuck Colson's book, you know, and and ten years before and and and was just like, Okay, I'm really called. I've been called to this for the longest time. How do I get in? Right. And so I went and I talked to the warden and and we started going into the jail together and we started ministering together, you know, and and And at that point it was you know, I was like my theme song at that time was American Woman Get Away From Me. I was like, I was not. After what I'd been through, I did not want any I did not want to be married. And she had like she had left her husband who had was a serial adulterer, you know, and like would last she when she left him, he she woke up, she'd woken up at three o'clock in the morning and he was like choking her in bed. And Michael Chestnut: Mm. Brian Gray: and so she got out of there. And so she was like She put on a ring, actually bought a ring and said, Lord, I take away every hormone, every desire I would ever have to kiss a man or be with a man. I'm yours only, right? And she put on a ring, say for saying that with a fish on it. And and then here I come and we become we start becoming friends, you know? And it was just like just truly, genuinely just a friendship. And then we started we started doing things together. We started hiking around Kawaii together. And and I remember We did she'd been fasting for 10 days and we did a 16 mile hike to Hanakoa Valley, which is a really hard hike. And we got done with that. And I'm just like, okay, I think I can hang with this woman here. She's not some high maintenance girl. Like I'm like, we can hang, you know? And and just gradually over the course of time this the friendship deepened. And and we we ended up on a hike and and and I remember I remember the sandwich I was eating. It was a really, really good tuna sub from Subway. And wh looking at this beautiful scene, and unbeknownst to me at the time, I turned from a frog into a prince. And she said she she never breathed a word about it, but she's like, my gosh, what is this? Because she had to she wanted to kiss me all of sudden. Yeah. And it's just like, okay, Lord. So, anyways, you know, about three or four months later, we were And we began and as soon as we got back from our honeymoon, we we opened a transition home and we had a male and a female furloughed inmate come and live with us. And so we've been doing prison ministry, ministering to addicts, doing transitional homes and everything like that together for for the last twenty one going on twenty two years now. Michael Chestnut: Wow. And is that what you're doing currently right now too? Brian Gray: Yeah, we had we well, we went on the mission field for six years in together. We'd we'd been running a transition home. We ran the transition home for twelve years. Our youngest son went off to college, my stepson, her son, and and we're standing across we always knew we were gonna go on a mission field and we were standing across from each other. and we looked at each other, we're like, It's time. At the same moment we both said, It's time. God told us it was time to go on the mission field. But Yeah, during that time I I'd become a certified substance abuse treatment counselor and I worked at a middle school and high school for yeah, for that same amount of time for about eleven years, twelve years. And and when it was time to go, it was time to go. We sold everything that we could, gave everything else away, including our car, and went off to Honduras with with two suitcases each. And we worked in an orphanage for six years and went up into the mountains to serve like underserved kids in the mountains for another three and a half. And then the obvious move would be Greenville, Tennessee, right? Michael Chestnut: Right. Of course. Brian Gray: Yeah. So the children the the the transition home is like kind of like our hobby. So it's so I I work as a supervisor and I'm in charge of sixty kids and about fifteen staff at a at a Christian children's home in Greenville. Yeah. Michael Chestnut: Well, it was amazing because it it's funny because in my in my life s there's a couple of favorite jobs I had. Well, one was I was a house parent at a a children's home, Christian children's home in Indiana. Really loved it. But then where I started getting my passion towards helping men was while I was still in the midst of my well, actually this i during my restoration, I I was still running from God, to be honest with you. but I started working at a transition house for inmates, federal work release program. And I became the case manager for that. And it was one of my favorite jobs. And in fact, it was one of those that once I did finally get back to church and I got back to God and and gave my life back to Christ, that I almost thought, is God calling me to this? You know, because I loved it so much. And But now he he's got me working with men, but just not in the transition home part of it. But I l I love that aspect because there's so many men, especially like just not just inmates, veterans. But and by the way, thank you for your service. But there's there's a lot of veterans and men and women that Are searching for hope. Searching for hope. And a lot of times that's where we as the church or the body of Christ is failing. because we have so many people out there right now that all they need is hope. And and one of the biggest things that I learned was that it wasn't my job to fix anybody. I Brian Gray: That's right. Michael Chestnut: I and I that was a tough one because I'm a fixer. And I but God's just called me to walk alongside these men. And there's not not a greater joy I have in my life right now than to walk alongside them. You know, and just just just the the Brian Gray: Yeah. Michael Chestnut: ministry of presence, of being there and being able to be that sounding board and to be able to be that person that also you're, you know, give hope to. Because once you start sharing your story, like you what you've done here today. It's amazing how God can take that scared boy running for his life. Turn to alcoholism, this path that you take, what God can do with it. And then the lives that He's touching now through the story that you just shared with us today. So, you know, first off, thank you for sharing that and being and doing that. And and you wrote a book. I want to talk about that for a minute because the la I wrote one on my story, which I'll be honest with you, when I sent publish, I had a panic attack because there Brian Gray: Yeah. Michael Chestnut: was so much in it my family didn't even know that people didn't know, right? And it my I didn't write a book because I wanted to write a book. I wrote a book because God told me to write a book. God I sat down and we wrote a book and I'm like, Well, God, I don't want to put that in there. And God's like, No. Well, I didn't ask you what you wanted to put in there, you know? And I'm like, and and I do remember Brian Gray: Amen. Michael Chestnut: I I mean, I had a a major panic attack when I sent that and I published it because there was no taking that back now, right? And Brian Gray: That's right. Michael Chestnut: but I also know that there's been no greater joy now when I I get a phone call from someone I haven't heard from 20 years saying, Hey, you got you you remember me? And I'm like, Yeah, and I know. Listen, I know right then what's happened. They got a hold of my book. And they're like, Hey, I just read your book. And and those are hope calls. Those are men calling, looking for hope where I found it in my story. You know, so it's not the story I wanted to write. And I'm sure your story isn't the one you would have wanted to write about your life. But what's great about it, what I like about yours is it's it's letting God finish the story. That would he he gets he gets the glory. So tell us a little bit Brian Gray: Right. He gets the glory. Yeah. Michael Chestnut: about the book. Tell us where how how to get that, where to purchase it at and all that. Brian Gray: It's it's on Amazon. It's Rapsheet to resume finding blessing and brokenness. and by me, Brian Gray. it's yeah. It's in paperback hardcover and Kindle right now. At some point I'm gonna try to do an audio book, but I have to be able to do it without crying. Michael Chestnut: I couldn't. I ended up having someone else do my audible book because I just couldn't do it. And Brian Gray: Yeah. Michael Chestnut: it it 'cause it it's it's very emotional. It I I could probably do it now, but back then it was still kinda raw. People don't realize what it takes to put yourself out there like that. And You know, what we're writing isn't because it's something that we're proud of or what there's a lot of hurt in those pages, you know, but and there but there's also a lot of joy. You know, some of those are not are not tears because of what I did. It's tears of the mercy God had on me because I should be dead right now. I should be dead right now. So well, Brian Gray: Amen. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Michael Chestnut: I want to thank you for coming on here. Thank you for sharing our story, but I want to ask you too. You know, there's guys listening right now. Your story has resonated with them. Definitely resonated with them. I know that there's other Brian Grays listening to the podcast right now. What would you have to say to them? Brian Gray: Well, I would say that the what the enemy meant for harm, God will use for good if you'll get out of your own way, if you'll stop believing the lies, you know. And it's it's and and it it's a it's important to remember that like he has created us for a purpose, right? And that purpose is is like it's not so much that God needs me or you or anybody else to do anything, but we get to do the these things when we surrender to him. And He causes all things to work together for good for those who love God and are called according to his purpose. And his purpose is to conform us into the image of his son, right? And that is he's the potter with the clay. And that conforming means it takes pressure. And these things that we've gone through, if we let them, if we will look at them correctly, we'll we can see that the blessing really is in the brokenness. And everything every place where he comforted you and every place where you you maybe failed is is actually an opportunity for you to s to reach out and to comfort and serve somebody else. And I found that I didn't get to talk too much about it with, you know, the work with the kids and everything like that. But I'll tell you something, it's like I could not do the job that I do today if I had just gone to school and gotten a a degree. It's because I Michael Chestnut: Mm. Brian Gray: walked in their shoes and I know what it feels like and I know what it's like to be dumb and to be violent and to be angry and and manipulative. And it's like I I I know what all those things are, but I can see I can see God's plan and purpose in each and every one of their lives. And so Michael Chestnut: Amen. Brian Gray: it's there people don't it's not just a matter of you being able to do these things. There's a world that needs you to do these things. Michael Chestnut: And let me tell you, I I don't think there's a better blessing God gives me than when He allows those worst moments of my life to help someone else. You know? And Brian Gray: Amen. Yeah. Michael Chestnut: I I find the and it's not it's not it's not this prideful thing, it's this humility of saying, first off. The God I I used to know should have killed me, should have just said, You you chose us, fine, you you chose death. But my God showed mercy on me. And he brought just like in your story, there's so many people I see God and so many people along my journey that God was placing at those p places, right? And you know the great part is now I get to be one of those people in some of those other men's stories. And there those places for them. And what a humbling thing it is to be able to do that. And I'll be honest with you, Brian. I I really would love to have you back on the show, talk to you about the children's ministry, hear that because we've just touched just a little bit of your story today. We've Brian Gray: Yeah. Michael Chestnut: just touched a little bit, but I know that it's it's a lot for people to soak in. But what I like about your story is we're not selling to so to another Brian. Gray or Michael Chestnut listening to this right now to a guy who's in the midst of this. We're not, we're not selling to you religion. We're we're selling to you a relationship with Christ. And that's the difference. It's it's not, you do these things and life's going to be perfect. No, you gotta realize that there's a God who loves you that wants to have a relationship, and he can take this mess you've made. And if you just allow him to take one step, he'll start he'll start making beauty out of that. He'll start changing things. Brian Gray: Sure. Michael Chestnut: And and I get it's a scary thing to do. And it's and you know, there's things from our past, right? Your childhood, my childhood, that will speak lies into our heads and tell us the difference. That's why I think it's so important that sometimes the first step is reaching out to a a a person like Brian, person like me to a celebrate recovery in your area to a church to a a pastor or something. And take a first step to someone that you can trust, a man that can walk alongside of you and you be amazing because I you know, I can think of my man, Michael Collins, who met me as a complete stranger, was the first person that I broke down and told everything to. And he did he didn't flinch. And that man to this day, 20 years later, still walks with me. And and just it's just tremendous. Brian, thank you so much for being here today. Thank you for sharing all Brian Gray: Thank you. It's been my pleasure. Michael Chestnut: this. I'm gonna make sure we got a link for all you listening for his book, so that you can go get it. And Brian, let's let's do this again soon. Let's talk about the ministries and other things that's happening. But again, thank you for being on here today. And Brian Gray: Thank you. Thanks for having me. Michael Chestnut: and to our listeners, I just want to thank you for listening. And until next time, just keep being intentional.