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Your Blueprint, Your Life: Reclaim Your Inner Voice & Redefine Success with Dani Ragel · Modern Sacred: Women's Work

• Abby: Welcome back everyone to another episode of the Modern Sacred Women's Work Podcast. We are here today in the studio with me, Chelsea, and my dear friend Danny. Okay, is it Ragel? Danny Ragel. I was like, ⁓ I don't know how to say our last name. Ragel. Chelsea Henderson: Hello! Dani Ragel: Yes. I always say it's, I get it. have name, I get anxiety around saying someone's name so hard, but I always say it's Ragel, like bagel with an R. And one time somebody said, ⁓ so bager. And I was like, ⁓ no, other way around. But anyway, you got it. It's like. Chelsea Henderson: same. That's so helpful. Abby: Hey, so good. Chelsea Henderson: Baker. People are so cute. I love people. Abby: Baker, no, no, no. Amazing. Well, Dani Shepard's women to their inner architect, and she has been one hell of a shepherd for me. She helps them reclaim their own blueprint of a life that is fully their own without the programming and conditioning from external sources. She does deep intuitive coaching rooted in human design. Danny guides women back to the wisdom they're already carrying to find their answers, not someone else's and into lifelong change. Danny, welcome to the podcast. I am so excited that you're here and we have so many good things to talk about and share with our audience and just so excited to have you here. But I want to give you a second to just say hi to the audience and introduce yourself and. Chelsea Henderson: Welcome! Dani Ragel: Thank you so much. Hmm. ⁓ Abby: Tell us about your human design and just kind of who you are. Dani Ragel: ⁓ OK, I'm so to be here. ⁓ Abby, you know how much love I have for you and how much. ⁓ You've just been just a really healing person, presence, energy for me over the last few months. And I know we've talked about it in voice notes, but you'll say things like, I feel bad for Abby before Danny. And I'm like, same. That's how I feel. I'm like, I feel bad for Danny before Abby. I'm just like, and for some context, I literally manifested Abby. Abby: Mmm. Yes. ⁓ Yes. Dani Ragel: Through TBM, through TB Magnetic, I sincerely, I wrote down that I wanted to find an accountability buddy and that all these things of how I wanted us to be aligned. within, I think, maybe 24 hours, yeah, 24 hours, Abby reached out and was like, hi, are you looking for an accountability buddy? And I just couldn't believe it. yeah, it's just so fun that this is what we did. Yeah. Yeah. Abby: You did. And then we hit it off, man. 30 minute voice memos, let's go. Like, let's go deep childhood, everything. I'm like, I love this girl. Like, holy shit, I can know people my whole life and not tell them these things. And I've known this woman for a day and I'm like, let's go. Like, we just really, we really connected and connect on an energetic level. Dani Ragel: Mm-hmm. I think people understand, too, when you meet someone and there's that feeling of, really want to hang with you and I want to spend time with you. Is that cool? Do you feel the same? And I'm just so glad that it was really reciprocal and has continued to be that. So I'm a manifesting generator. And I found that out a few months ago. And it was like, Chelsea Henderson: Mm-hmm. Dani Ragel: finding a textbook that was written about me or like a manual that I feel I wish I was handed upon birth to be like, here's a lot of really pertinent information about you and how you view the world and how you process things. Like, I just really wish I had found that sooner. It's OK. I understand divine timing. just fear if you don't know about human design, I'm sure people listening do. But if you don't, highly encourage learning about your human design. And I use the. Chelsea Henderson: Totally. Dani Ragel: Align app by Jenna Zoe, ⁓ which has been really helpful. yeah, Manifesting Generator, Enneagram 8, with I think a seven wing? Wing, I think, something like that. ⁓ I literally asked my chat GPT to give me a summary really quick. was like, just really, all the things I've told you about my astrology, my human design, my Enneagram, can you just give me a little synapsis so I can share that? But yeah, I'm a type 8, the challenger. Abby: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. you you Dani Ragel: And I am a Sagittarius Sun with Virgo Moon and Virgo Rising. And I'm married to a Virgo, which I think is funny. Yeah. So there's a little bit about me. Abby: ⁓ cool. ⁓ that's cool. I didn't know that. Amazing. ⁓ I love it. Well, thanks for introducing yourself and I, let's see where to start. Like we were having such a good conversation before we started recording and I'm like, ⁓ I want to get back there. But first I really, I really am just so blessed to have heard your story. throughout our voice memos and your story both from like growing up, then also like through corporate America as a woman, as a leader, and then now a year plus having quit that whole kind of life and path and transitioning into your own work and like a more soul led work and just that whole arc that. Dani Ragel: Mm. Abby: I think so many women are finding themselves in some part of that arc, either in the beginning, climbing the ladder, hitting the top of the ladder and realizing like, I don't like the wall this is leaned against at all. And then where do I go from here and finding themselves. So I would just really love to hear how that all transpired for you and what's kind of taken place, anything you wanna share. Dani Ragel: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I'll give a really, I'll try to give a quicker synopsis of where I was before last year, because I think the juiciness in all of this is really over the course of the last year and a half. But I'm 37. I got my first job when I was 15. I held a job ever since. And then at 36, maybe 35 and a half, 36, is when I decided to go out on my own and start my own business. I had previously started my own business how to, I don't know, four years ago, five years ago or so. It's just a really small blurb of my life. But I say that I really started my own business when I was 36. But I had worked in, I mean, retail, the food industry, nonprofits, startups, yeah, corporations, I mean, all of the things. And I. at my most recent job that I was employed before I left to do my own thing. I loved the team so much and I felt really invaluable there. I know there's a common theme of I don't, I just have a title at a workplace, like I'm always replaceable. And for a while I started to feel like I was pretty invaluable at the company and I just loved, I loved the Abby: Mm-hmm. Dani Ragel: community and the culture so much. And so it was really confusing to me when I started to get this, it became sort of nagging, like this, this voice and this feeling that I wanted more. And I felt really selfish and greedy. And I felt a little, what's the word when somebody is just, I don't know, like a big dreamer that they're being not irresponsible, not immature. Abby: Hmm. Dani Ragel: that they're not being realistic, of. And I then read the book Untamed by Glennon Doyle. And that set such a fire in me. If you haven't read the book, there is a really quick portion in it where it talks about a tiger. And I'm paraphrasing because I read the book, I don't know, maybe three years ago. So maybe it's a lion, but I'm going to say tiger. But maybe it's a cheetah, I'm not exactly sure. But it's at the very beginning of the book. Glennon talks about. Abby: Hmm. Hmm. Dani Ragel: how she went to the zoo, and she saw this big cat that was, they had trained the cat to follow this toy to the end of this little hall. And it was really entertaining for people because they got to see how fast this thing could go, and it got a treat. And then Glennon's daughter saw the cat just walking around and just looking like it was wanting to maybe jump out of the cage. And she had this really beautiful analogy of how even this cat who was born and raised in captivity instinctually wanted more and didn't feel comfortable in this place. And I thought, OK. It's OK. Like, she gave me permission. Her writing gave me permission to want more without guilt. So yeah, then I left. I left the agency I was working for. Abby: Well. Dani Ragel: That was hard. It was really hard. And then I started my business in executive coaching. And I got my accreditation through the IECL. And I was really trying to find my way. I'd been generating my own income for so long that all of a sudden I was no longer, I didn't have a steady paycheck. And I was relying on my husband to provide for us. It was really, really odd for me, especially being raised by my dad. He was single as he was raising me and really raised me to be hyper independent. He would always say, I think I made you a little too independent. And I wore that like a badge of honor. I was like, yeah, I'm so independent. So it was like a reckoning for me to not be generating this income and not have a successful business the next day after I left a job. I was like, this is going to take some time. And as I developed. Abby: Mm-hmm. Yes. Chelsea Henderson: Mm, yeah. Dani Ragel: My business, I kept wanting to prioritize being human first. I didn't want to work nine hour days. I didn't want to work nine hour days when I was working for someone else. Why the hell would I want to do it working for myself? And I really hid behind trying to be busy. Abby: Mmm. Dani Ragel: Because it was like, well, if I'm busy, then I'm doing something. And if I'm doing something, then I have worth. And if I have worth, then I can rest. it was just like this really, like I said, it was really a reckoning for me. And my husband couldn't have been more supportive. It wasn't like he came home and was like, why isn't the house clean? Or why haven't you generated money? He's never, ever, ever talked to me about. Abby: Mm-mm. Dani Ragel: I need to bring in money, or I need to keep the house clean, or I need to make us food because I don't have a job. He always talks about our money, never his money. And so I just want to give a shout out to my husband because he's the best. Abby: Shout out to your husband. Shout out to all of our husbands because we have, and we've all been in a similar place. ⁓ Chelsea Henderson: Woo! All of our husbands, because they're all like that. That's something really amazing. Absolutely. Absolutely. Dani Ragel: Yeah, it's just, yeah, they're out there. They're out there. It exists. ⁓ But yeah, so then more recently, I've really been actually this morning. I shouldn't even say more recently. Literally this morning, I was telling Chelsea and Abby in the beginning how I was pulling tarot cards because I've been feeling really disconnected. I've been feeling disconnected from myself. Abby: They are. Dani Ragel: The verbiage I use is the divine. Some people use the universe, God, life, whatever you connect to. But that's my verbiage and what I'll use. But I was feeling really disconnected from myself and from the divine. And I kept getting this message and inkling and ping to slow down and to check in. And I really didn't want to check in. And I'm someone who likes to check in daily, multiple times a day. Abby, you know it. I love to check in. And I was just really running from this check in. I was like, why? Abby: Yeah, yeah. Dani Ragel: What are you afraid of? Or what do you think you're going to unearth? And now I understand. I understand why I was not wanting to slow down, because the message that I really have been receiving very strongly just this morning is that I need to detach from the identity of the business I've been building over the last year and a half. Abby: Hmm. I hear you there. Yes. Yes. Dani Ragel: hehe Chelsea Henderson: So much. Yeah. Wow. Dani Ragel: And yeah. Abby: And it's really interesting when we do have, and amazing that we have partners who are like, they just support us because it really makes you look at yourself and our own conditioning. Like when I have a man who's not saying, why aren't you making money? Or like, how long is this gonna take? He's just supportive and appreciative of coming home to my energy being what it is. And I'm like, ⁓ so it's my own stuff. Dani Ragel: Sam. Chelsea Henderson: It's incredible. Yes. ⁓ Ugh. So, seriously. Abby: that holds this thing over my head. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah, that's been humbling. Dani Ragel: Yeah, what about you Chelsea? Chelsea Henderson: to look at that. ⁓ my God, same. My body is tingling. I resonate with everything you've said so far so much. ⁓ And that has been a complete stripping away. I created massive independence in myself because I had an ill mother and a father that I knew just couldn't hold me and parent me and love me and protect me in the way that I felt like I needed. And I was like, I got to do for myself and no one can help me. And no one will. And I created a whole narrative and, and I did myself a service and a disservice at the same time. I got myself through hard times and I protected myself. And I also kept a lot of potential distance from me. And so, you know, I also got to a place where I was that big cat in the cage and was like, there's something calling and this isn't it. And I have all the things and it's not. It's not working. It's not right. It doesn't feel right in my body and my soul. I'm not wearing this well. And I did the same thing and... Dani Ragel: Hmm. Chelsea Henderson: And I talked to you about this before we started recording. I did a Tarot poll this weekend and it was very much a similar message of like, stop trying to do and just be. And I have gotten that message consistently for over a year now and I am practicing it. I'm... ⁓ I'm working on it every day, but I even just this weekend have the same thing of like, I need to check in and I love checking in and I don't want to check in because a very similar thing. like, Abby, you're talking about that conditioning. No one is telling me that, but me. And it is, it is a really interesting arc of self discovery to be in this moment and be like, okay. So then if I stop narrating it as such, it will. Abby: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: be what I envision, what I feel, what I know to be true when I take this narration away. And that is like incredibly powerful, incredibly humbling and like overwhelming. It's overwhelming to know that like really this huge contribution is to just be and to just hold the space and to just be well. Yeah, gosh, I really Danny, I feel you. so much and I'm fascinated ⁓ by how when I put down that like massive sign of my own identity all of you have come to me I have come to you right like this beautiful kind of just like arms open embracing like how we've just found each other and I feel like I could go on and on but Dani Ragel: Mmm. Chelsea Henderson: That's really this the energy for me is really settling in in this beautiful way of like, it's all here. It's all been here. It's not out there. It's here. Dani Ragel: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, and I had even, ⁓ thanks, Chelsea. Thank you for sharing. I had sent a voice note to Abby. Gosh, I don't know. We send so many. I'm like every day. Abby: Mm-hmm. Dude, when I click on your name on my phone, it takes a second to load because it's loading. Nobody else do I click on their name and it's like, hold on a second, there's a lot in here. I'm like, I know there's a lot of data in this thread. Dani Ragel: You Oh my gosh, your phone is working it over time. It's like, ladies, ladies. Keep up. Keep up. But I had sent Abby a voice note a few days ago. I said, feel like, what even was my verbiage? I don't know if I said I feel disconnected from my business. But I was like, I don't know what I'm doing. Like, I don't know. Because I have a mentorship program that I've ran before. And I've recently been promoting it because I'm Abby: I Dani Ragel: planning on doing another one in March. And now this is making me rethink all of this. But it's like I've been going through the motions of producing something so that I can add monetary value to our household. And when I thought about what if money wasn't an object here? What if? what if we were completely financially set? Because right now we're in a little, like to speak logistically, we're in a little bit of a pinch, a little. For some context, my husband and I own a home in Tucson, Arizona. We just moved to a cabin on Mount Lemmon, which has been a really big thing for us. We've been wanting to do that. We've been wanting to live here for years. And we rent where we currently live. And I'll even get into the specifics. It's about $2,200 a month for our mortgage, not including utilities. And to rent this cabin, it's $1,300, including utilities. So already, just by us living here, if we let our home go, we could save money in that front, $800 or so. But what we're doing is we're turning our home in Tucson into an Airbnb. Because we're really both working on diversifying our income and generating more passive income. And obviously, starting an Airbnb isn't passive in the beginning, but it can become more passive. So that's where we're at. And that's why, for me, it's like I still just feel this need. I have to contribute monetarily. I have to contribute monetarily. And again, has my husband ever said that? Not once. Not even an ounce of resentment. Abby: Mm-hmm. Mm. Hmm. Dani Ragel: it's seeping out in some way, shape, form. there's no, this man does not need anything from me. ⁓ But I decided to play with the idea of, if money wasn't an object, what would I do? And so clearly, it was like, I wouldn't be pushing this mentorship program. Not because, like, when I really get to it, what I love about the mentorship program is that it brings me closer to women. Chelsea Henderson: No. Abby: Mm-mm. Chelsea Henderson: No. Mmm. Mm-hmm. Dani Ragel: It brings me closer to women as we work through things together, as we hold space for one another. And I was like, okay, I don't have to create a program to do that. I can just create my community or pour into my community to do that. So it's just been a really, I can tell that I have found safety and comfort in having a title. Abby: Mm-hmm. Dani Ragel: whether that be for myself, that it's like, ⁓ I have purpose. I have an identity. I have an identifier. When people ask what I do, I can tell them this. And not only will that help me feel comfortable, but it will help them feel comfortable too. Because I notice that when people say, ⁓ what do you do? Right. Right. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Totally. Abby: Yes, absolutely. It's such, it's like the first American question that people ask you is like, so what do you do? And I'm like, I alchemize energy for, I take, ⁓ I hold space. take hyper masculine productivity energy and I alchemize it into resting and being and making good food and just being a fucking goddess. And they're like, ⁓ okay. You're, don't know what you're talking about. So you're like, I'm a coach. Chelsea Henderson: such a thing, yeah. Yeah, I hold space. Dani Ragel: Yeah, ⁓ period. I know. I know, I know, I know. I know. I know. I literally, so the word that has come to me for quite a few months now, that now when people ask me, what do you do, I was like, I feel very comfortable telling people I exist. Chelsea Henderson: free time. I know. Dani Ragel: The word exist has been coming to me so often. It's like, I'm not being, I'm not doing, I'm existing. And I was thinking about that question that people ask, what do you do this morning? You guys said this morning. The last few hours have been very transformative for this gal over here. But I was like, this is not any coincidence that this happened before this podcast. Yeah. I was like, ⁓ Abby: I love it. This is amazing. Chelsea Henderson: This is meant to be. Perfect timing. Dani Ragel: Thank you guys for putting this together, because it really brought some energy to this. I was thinking about when people ask that, what do you do? I'm like, what are you actually asking me? Because another way of asking that is, how do you generate money? How do you make money? Or what is your title? But it's like, what do I do? If I really answer that question, I work out. I go for walks. These are things I do. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah, yeah. Abby: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Dani Ragel: I journal, I read, I connect with my family. And so I'm like at the overarching theme of all of that, that is existing to me. I'm existing. And it's like, when did existing not become enough? And I get it because I feel like I can, for some people it might be like, yeah, but we need money to do things. Or it might be easy for you, Danny, to be saying these things because your husband has an income. And I'm like, yes, and do you think I've Abby: Yeah. Dani Ragel: by chance found this man and that this relationship is something I fell into? Nope. Like I've been working since I was 15 and I've been generating my own income and I found this individual and he and I have worked hard together. Like we won't get into relationship stuff, but he and I say this very common, hi Luna. Luna made an appearance. ⁓ there she is. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. I know you can see her cute little tail. Hi sweetheart. Abby: There she is. Don't crawl on my shoulders though. Please don't do that. I know, no. ⁓ God, sorry everyone. Don't look at the butt. Don't look at it. Okay, get down. Chelsea Henderson: Ha ha ha ha ha. Dani Ragel: Bye, Looney Doon. Ugh. Chelsea Henderson: Here it goes. Cat, a little cat butt, little cat butt. It's amazing. We'll put a little happy face. Yeah, sometimes you have to show your butt, okay? It's not a big deal, it's just life. Dani Ragel: She's like, it's time. Just the sensor right there. Just, you know, ladies being ladies. Come on now. Little sticker. Yeah. Sometimes you do. Sometimes you do. Let's just let that sit for a second. Sometimes you do have to show your Such a powerful, powerful. Abby: Sometimes you do, not a big deal. Chelsea Henderson: Absolutely, Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: 100 % yes. One of the proudest moments in my life, I'm going to take us on the tiniest tangent, one of the proudest moments in my life, my youngest sister, who's 12 years younger than me and I felt like she was kind of my kid and kind of my sister was when my one of my oldest friends and I taught her to moon and she mooned a bunch of our friends out the car window while we were driving and they were like, did your little sister just moon us? And we were like, Abby: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. No shame. No shame. Amazing. Chelsea Henderson: Apsa fucking Lutely, yes she did. That's who we are. So you guys can just hold that and so proud moment, proud parent moment. Sometimes you gotta share, but bring back mooning. Golly, absolutely. Abby: Yeah. Dani Ragel: Yes, you did. You know, it's like bring back mooning. Bring back mooning, you know? Bring it back. Bring it back. I've done it to my friends' security cameras. It makes me giddy. It makes me giddy. And they think it's funny too. They'll screenshot it and send it to me. I'm like, that's my butt. That's my butt. Abby: Sometimes you gotta show your butt. Yes, if you Chelsea Henderson: Please, please. It's so fun. Abby: ⁓ my god, that's amazing. Chelsea Henderson: It's amazing. It's amazing. Abby: That's my butt. That is my butt. If you take the train from Denver to Glenwood Springs in the summer, it goes through this part of the mountains that no, there's no roads. It's just the train and the Colorado river flows right there and people raft it. And it's a long standing tradition that if they see the train, everybody on the river will moon it. So you will, I think we counted like over 150 moons. Chelsea Henderson: Awesome. Awesome. Abby: while we were watching out the viewing car and we're like, there's some more. They're like slapping their butts. So good. Dani Ragel: What a day. What a day. Chelsea Henderson: It's amazing. My husband will walk through our house and just go butts and butts and butts and butts and butts and butts and butts and butts and I'm like, that's like the backdrop of my I'm like, butts and butts and butts and butts. Like, okay, I love that beat, dude. Hell yeah. Yeah, free the butt. Dani Ragel: We love a tradition. Mm, mm, mm. Abby: Like, yes, more freedom, sexual freedom for all. Yes. Dani Ragel: Luna, look what you've done. Look what you brought. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: Luna, Luna is, you know, she's a revolutionary. What can I say? She's like, I need to show my butt because my tail is my balance. Okay, so. She did. Chelsea Henderson: Thank you, sweetheart. Also, Dani, she just mooned us, so that got real really quick. She did. Full circle. Dani Ragel: She is a revolutionary. Oh, she did. She did. I mean, that is an honor, Luna. And also, not only is she revolutionary, but we literally talk about how our animals are our muses. My dog, Willow, is a hun- she's unapologetically restful. She does- it's like she doesn't contribute to this household. And she is so loved. We never- I mean, we jokingly will- like, if we're hammering something, we're like- Chelsea Henderson: Absolutely. Abby: Yes. Dani Ragel: Willow, could you just hand us a nail? Could you please, like just something. But it's like she is not over here like, do you guys love me? Because I know I haven't brought in any money this month. anyway, getting back to the whole thing with my husband, it's like our relationship, he's very comfortable with me sharing this. Because he's like, no, it's real. We did not like each other. Did not like each other for a solid year and a half. Like resented each other. I mean, yeah. So living together, yeah. We were like, no, I hated you. We won't really say that to each other. But jokingly, we were like, really didn't like you. So it's like, I've worked on myself. I've worked with him on our relationship. I was really diligent about the partner that I wanted to be with and the partner that I found. I just don't feel like there's a part of me that can, you know, it's not Abby: Like living together, too. Dani Ragel: not a factor that my husband is providing. And also, I'm not going to downplay the fact that I've been so integral in finding him and nourishing our relationship and getting it to the point that it's at. So I'm like, yeah, it's true. My husband is the, yeah. Yeah. Abby: Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: That's work. That is work. Like we are working on that to be in relationship is constant work and practice. Like my husband and I talk about that and identify that a lot. And now for us being parents, like we have this boy who just turned six and it's like, ⁓ my God, this is just work and it will always be work because that is to me that anything worth doing is hard work. And so I think that that's Abby: It is. Yes. Dani Ragel: Mm-hmm. Abby: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: worth honoring too. And I think that it's okay that we step in for each other at different times. It's just like when we're sick, right? If I'm sick, he's gonna take over a lot of things vice versa. And there are just moments throughout the relationship where I think that that's really a powerful offering. And we're both working at it. And that has been my revelation during this time is like, I'm still working here too. And I'm not like... Dani Ragel: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Abby: Yeah, exactly. Chelsea Henderson: meeting that material standard perhaps, but this is still work, it still contributes to like the collective existence, it's important. Dani Ragel: Yeah. Yes, absolutely. I would get, often, we would be out somewhere, and he would refill my water. My water, it would be in front of other people. And people would be like, ⁓ my gosh, that's so sweet that he refilled your water. And I'm like, yes, and who do you think taught him that? Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Dani Ragel: Like, was like, hey, you know what would be really nice for me? I would really appreciate it if you could, that just feels good for me. You know how I refill your water when it's getting low? It would feel really nice if I got that too. Not as an expectation. It was just me communicating, and he has the option or the opportunity to decide if he wants to do that or not. Similar things have just, that would happen all the time. And I was like, I'm not discrediting my husband, because he has risen to the occasion. But who set the bar for him to rise? That was me. Abby: Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: Mmm, Dani Ragel: And so now the way that I describe it is it's like we worked so hard, we put in so much hard work that we raised our vibrancy level so that now the standard, it's very easeful. And do we have these moments of working through things together or it's a little bit stickier? Yeah, we certainly do. But the way that we've just done so much work on ourselves and we've done inner child work, which is Chelsea Henderson: Mmm. Abby: Mmm. Dani Ragel: a whole new thing for us in our relationship. Because now it's like, understand him at such a fundamental level that if he's doing something, if he's acting out, like, I feel like internally, like, think I see little, his name is ER. I think I see little ER right now not feeling heard or not fit. And so I just take things so much less personally. Not that I let him walk all over me. For example, the other day. Chelsea Henderson: you Dani Ragel: ⁓ He was working something out on his own, but he was trying to subject me to the process. And I stopped him and I said, hey, you're not processing with me right now. You are diffusing on me right now. So this is something you can work through. I'm here. I'm totally here, but not like this. So I'm going to get off the phone. And he was just like, OK, OK. And he went and did his own thing. He journaled. He reflected. And then he came back and he was like, here's what was going on. I'm like, Chelsea Henderson: Mm-hmm. I love that. Dani Ragel: OK, I get that. So it's like, we've just raised that frequency. Abby: Yeah, yeah. Chelsea Henderson: Together, together, that's awesome. Abby: Danny, you're such a baddie. Like, together. ⁓ Well, ⁓ and I feel two ⁓ subtitle of this podcast is the Work Podcast because we are flipping that term on its head. What does women's work mean? You know, in ⁓ 1950s and beyond, was cooking, cleaning, blah, Like, that's women's work. Make me a sandwich. ⁓ But what we are seeing within ourselves, relationships, our friends, ⁓ is ⁓ Chelsea Henderson: ⁓ I love that, yes. Yeah. Abby: Women's work is this energetic frequency being raised and it is unbuttoning our lips to say that doesn't feel good, that hurt my feelings. You know what I really like in bed is when you do this, hey, will you fill my water? It is speaking our needs and our wisdom. when we do that, we raise the vibration in our marriages and our relationships and our friendships by speaking our truth and having boundaries and in the world. Chelsea Henderson: in the world. Abby: That is women's work and you have been such an expander for me in that, in boundaries and in speaking your truth to ER, to family, to extended family around the holidays. There's been so many examples that you've shared that have just really been like an expander for me in the whole people pleasing journey. Dani Ragel: Hmm. Abby: You said, I think that you used to be a people pleaser. Is that something you to? struggle with. Dani Ragel: unknowingly, but yes, when I really dissect, I'm like, ⁓ that's people pleasing. Yeah. Abby: Uh-huh. Because knowing you now, that would shock me, right? To be like, what? But that's the growth journey, is that who we are now, people would be like, what? You were that kind of way? And it gives other people permission to level up. They're like, ⁓ we can change. We can grow. Dani Ragel: Yeah. Well, yeah, because I I feel like people pleasing is so such a blanketed term that has been oversimplified. And that was why I didn't realize that I had people pleasing tendencies because I was like, well, I'm not just going to do whatever you want to do. I'm going to say what I want to say. But it was like, it could be circumstantial. Chelsea Henderson: you Dani Ragel: Like maybe with my husband, I would say, I don't want to go eat there. Like, no, we're not going. I want to go here. So I'm like, that's not people pleasing. But what I realized and what I unearthed through doing work on To Be Magnetic was that my root narrative that was most holding me back at that point in time, and that was about three or four months ago, was I won't be loved or accepted if I assert and honor myself. Chelsea Henderson: Hmm. Dani Ragel: And if you want to, that could be considered people pleasing. Not honoring and asserting myself because I want to be loved and accepted, that's just a fancy term for people pleasing. So yeah, when I unearthed that, I was like, no. Chelsea Henderson: Mmm. Abby: Hmm. ⁓ Chelsea Henderson: Ha ha ha ha Abby: No way. Dani Ragel: Like I've never identified, I've never, I've heard people say, like I'm a people pleaser, I'm like could never be me. And I was like, oh no, oh no. So yeah, that's been, that's definitely been something. And it. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Uh-huh. ⁓ It's that self-worth element that that's been so wild to me about that eye opening to. Abby: Mm-hmm. Dani Ragel: Self-worth and for me, it's really been about self-expression. Like that has been a thing that I've been working on reclaiming is my self-expression. is what I'm saying polished so it can be more palatable? Or is it actually how I feel? And I used chat GBT at a certain point and said, well, what can I do? Chelsea Henderson: Ooh, I like that. Dani Ragel: I feel like that's a really common thing. It's like I unearthed this thing, the root narrative that was holding me back. And it's like, well, now what? Well, then how do I work through this? And I think it can be hard because I unearthed that when I was, I think I was, I was either 36 or just turned 37. But for, let's say 37, for 37 years, that root narrative has just been going on in the background and just calling the shots. Chelsea Henderson: Mm-hmm. Abby: Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: Absolutely. Neuro pathways so deep. ⁓ huh. huh. Yes. Dani Ragel: skewing how I view things. Nope, so deep. Like I will be mining and mining and mining and mining. Like, and it's. Abby: Danny and I joke, we're like, when do I get to the bottom of this? Like, where's the bottom? Because I get to the bottom and it turns out there's a trap door that opens and you're like, ⁓ it goes deeper than this? Dani Ragel: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Chelsea Henderson: And is it gonna take 37 years to get there? And then what? And then 37 years of... No, I know, for sure. It feels endless, but maybe that's the joy of it. Dani Ragel: is even deeper. right. Yeah. that's how, well, and that's how I felt even when I was trying to figure out what the root narrative was. It wasn't just like somebody asked me, what's your root narrative that's holding you back? And I was like, well, I ⁓ feel like I won't be loved or accepted if I assert and honor myself. That took me, I don't want to say so long because that's a really subjective term. It took me probably a month or two. And that's the thing. I think that For some people, it might be a little, at least I found this in my work, that it can be intimidating. People don't want to do inner work because it feels like a can of worms that they might find. And I'm like, what I've found and what I've heard from others is that the repairing, the rewriting, the rewiring, it actually doesn't take so long. It's like it just takes this. Maybe just a courageous diligence or just a commitment to show up for myself in that way and to notice when I'm given opportunities of like, ⁓ if I don't, let's say I go to a bar. If you've ever seen The Office, you'll know the scene. But let's say I go to a bar and I order a light beer and a regular beer and they give me two regular beers. And instead of just walking away and accepting that, I go, actually, one of these was supposed to be a light. That moment for me, this might sound like nothing to other people. That moment for me feels terrifying. So I understand that that's really important work, because I'm like, this to other people seems like nothing. So if it's such a big deal for me, this is clearly my work. So then I start to look for those opportunities of like, where am I not asserting and honoring myself? And even in these, like not even even in these small moments, it's like especially in these really small moments, because they just stack up. Abby: Yes, it, Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: you Chelsea Henderson: Mm. Dani Ragel: And then when I assert myself, when I honor my needs, and I say, actually, one of these is supposed to be a light beer. And the bartender goes, ⁓ sorry, no problem. And it's no big deal. I just fortified that for myself, that like, ⁓ I actually can assert and honor myself. And it's OK. It's not to get that so that people will love and accept me. But it's just showing my nervous system. Like, it is OK to assert and honor myself. So yeah, I think that's, yeah. Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: Yes. And that is the work. I mean, it's both. Like, I think when I used to think of like inner work or even therapy, it's like what you just endlessly dig into your subconscious. Yes. But then you get to a belief. Mine is very similar that my worth is not inherent. It's contingent on perfect performance. My worth is not inherent. So that belief that like I have to earn it somehow. Dani Ragel: right. Chelsea Henderson: Mm-hmm. Dani Ragel: Mm-hmm. Abby: So then what is re, okay, you've now found this belief. So what do you do with it? You, I rest, which is so hard. I sleep in, I don't set an alarm. I wake up when my body wants to wake up and I just don't obsess myself with doing all of the time. And that is the work, that's the rewiring. And like, once you get down to those beliefs. Dani Ragel: Mm-hmm. Abby: The actual work is it looks easy, like, ⁓ just ask for the beer that you ordered or similarly. I ordered a coffee. I can't do caffeine. I have to do decaf. And I looked on the sticker and it didn't say decaf. And I was like, I should just make sure. And she was like, ⁓ no, probably not. And they remade it for me. But like, I was going to drink it and cause myself anxiety and palpitations because I didn't want to speak up about it. But it's in those little moments that we rewire those beliefs. Dani Ragel: Right. Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Dani Ragel: Yeah, and even when you were talking about resting or sleeping in, I don't connect to that at all. I will sleep. I'll rest. I'll sleep in. That doesn't bother me at all. And I think that's why that's such an important distinction to make, because it's that. like if other people might not connect to the thing that is really tricky for me or that's really tricky for you. And it's like that's such a good indicator that that's the work, that that's our work, that that's ours. Because it's like. Chelsea Henderson: Right. Yeah. Dani Ragel: that means something for you, you know? And to me, I'm like, ⁓ just sleep in. And that's why I think it can be so, like, I do not like giving advice. That's a really big thing that I harp on, like, all the time. Because it's like, I could just tell you, Abby, just sleep in. Just sleep. Like, it's so OK. You deserve your sleep. That does nothing. That just robs you of understanding, like, why is it difficult for me to sleep in? And also, it's like telling a person who's having a panic attack, calm down. Calm down. You're like, Chelsea Henderson: I agree. Totally agree. Yeah. Yeah, totally. Abby: Yeah, exactly. Have you tried taking a deep breath? Yeah, I'm desperately trying, actually. I'm taking one after the other. It's called hyperventilation. Dani Ragel: What? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Chelsea Henderson: Right? Dani Ragel: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And my husband, he came home the other day, and he thought that he had miscalculated some measurement. he was just, I could tell he was kind of in a mood. And I was like, what is going on? And he had said, I think I got the measurement wrong. I don't know. I don't know. And he said, I know. I know. I know. I just need to let it go. By the way, I had not at any point said, let it go. But he was like, I know. I just need to let it go. And I said, mm. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah Dani Ragel: ⁓ before you let it go, we first got to bring it in and understand it. Because there is no letting go. That's just such like a bandaid over a bullet hole. That's just not going to do anything to be like, is this really stressing you out? Let it go. Let it go. It's like, no. So then when we talked about it, it really, yeah. Yeah. I know it's a song. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. What does that even mean? Abby: There you go. Yeah, where does it go? Really, you're saying shove it down. Shove it down. That's what that really is. Yeah. Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: What? Yeah. Yeah. Dani Ragel: Yeah, shut it down. Exactly. Repress, repress. That's kind of what I get from it. But when I was like, let's welcome it in. Let's talk about it. He really got to this understanding of like, ⁓ man, it's me being really hard on myself and my work and this perfectionism. And this is all stuff that he's really unearthed through this inner child work. So at that point, then he was able to actually be free from it. Because he now understood it and was like, ⁓ this is where I was giving this power. I don't have to. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah, basically, right? Mm. Abby: Yeah. Dani Ragel: So, and then what's funny is he went and checked it a few days later and it was perfect. What he had done was perfect. So it's like, there you go. Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: Ha ha, amazing. That's amazing, of course. But I think it's so interesting, this is, cause you talk about talk therapy, Abby, and I feel like in talk therapy, potentially, you absolutely could just dig deeper and deeper and talk and talk and talk ad nauseum forever, and there's nothing wrong with that. Sometimes that can be really helpful. I have a talk therapist that I see regularly, and I love her. It's a wonderful neutral place to come in and be like. Abby: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: Shit, this thing that always bothers me bothered me again. I thought I had moved past it. Like it's a perfect place for that. And it's not me going to one of my friends or family members and dumping that shit on them because they don't always, they're not always prepared for it. They don't always know what to do with it. Right. This is a really healthy neutral space. But then there's this, I feel like all these addendums to this that help us to dive deeper and identify things and kind of depersonalize them in the somatic kind of approach in the, you ⁓ feeling it, getting in your body and in treating a lot of this as if you're an observer, right? To observe the fact that I in this moment don't feel valuable. Okay, well that could pass. Like what does that mean? Where does that come from? Connecting it, telling the story without telling a story, if that makes sense, right? Like not telling a story because I want to tell my story over and over again and then recreate it over and over again, but telling it to ⁓ Dani Ragel: Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: on earth, what's true for me there, what is alive in my body right now that is trying to come out in that moment of this anger being present, this frustration being present, this feeling of not being valuable, being present. ⁓ And I think that that is so... Dani Ragel: Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: Danny, I love what you're saying about not giving advice. I can't even with that. feel so attached to that because it feels completely invalidating and it does rob people of the opportunity. And I think it robs me of the opportunity to just be present. That's me people pleasing. When I start to give advice, I'm trying to fix, which means that I am trying to feel I'm feeling their experience too much and somehow taking it on as my own. Abby: Yes. Chelsea Henderson: trying to fix it. It's not mine to fix. It might not even be theirs to fix. Maybe it's not something to fix. Maybe it's just something to experience. I love the kind of layering of all of this that when you start to bring it together, you're absolutely right. It doesn't take that long. It actually becomes kind of... Abby: Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: I think we said this before we started, but it's like, it's been here all along. It's not out there, it's not far away, it's not to be earned over years and years. It's here all along. It's just, for me, it has been about really letting that, really sitting into that, really feeling that, really allowing that, ⁓ and practicing it just over and over. But I love the layering. Dani Ragel: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. ⁓ Mm-hmm. Yeah, because that's a big thing of why I talk about shepherding women and back to their agency and their reclamation and their inner architect, because I think there's a lot out there saying, you need this, and then you'll be whole. You need to learn this, and then you'll be worthy. I have the information, and once you get the information from me, then you'll be complete. And my whole thing is it's Abby: Mmm. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Yeah. Dani Ragel: already in us. one of my girlfriends has said that because she's so funny. But she'll send me voice notes and she'll go, I know, I know, I need to look within. But I don't know. And she's being just funny about it. But she's also being sincere. She's like, I don't know. I said, I'm like, that is why I do the work that I do. Because to have someone shepherd, to have someone guide, that Chelsea Henderson: Mmm. Dani Ragel: to have somebody be a counterpart or a sounding board, that is so crucial because I think that's why a lot of women I know enjoy voice notes, because it gives us uninterrupted time. And I always say, God forbid women have time to speak freely uninterrupted. Chelsea Henderson: Mm. Dani Ragel: And also to just ramble, to ramble and to not make sense and to have one thought go into the next and it's not clean and it's not polished. It's like it's just the processing of it all. And my girlfriend called, she said, ⁓ that was a lot of hullabaloo. And I said, hullabaloo all day long. Like that is where, that's where I process that. Yeah, that's where we start to like lay everything out or like sift. It's like first you have this sifter and you just like put a whole bunch of mud in and let's call that the hullabaloo. Chelsea Henderson: Yes. Abby: Yeah, that is, that's the beauty. Chelsea Henderson: I love it. Abby: ⁓ it's so good. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Dani Ragel: And then as we're talking about it, that's the sifting. And then that's where things start to, you start to see like, ⁓ there's this, this, this, this, and this. But not only to just verbally process with anyone, because just like you're saying, Chelsea, people love giving advice. And I used to be one of them, and I probably still am. But it's like, ask somebody what their thought or their opinion is on something. ⁓ Chelsea Henderson: Yes. Absolutely. Yes. Dani Ragel: They're going to love it. They're going to want to talk and tell you, yeah, we love to talk. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's just that also, I remember when I started coaching, I felt confused. Like, well, what's the difference between what I'm doing and when I'm talking with my girlfriends? Like, what's the difference between coaching and talking with my girlfriends? Because it feels really similar. And it's like, well, my coach is a professional. And they know the things to look out for. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: Yeah, we love it. Chelsea Henderson: Absolutely. Mm-hmm. Dani Ragel: to listen, to dive deeper into. They also are not interested in, I mean, maybe they're interested, but they are not going to speak. Usually when girlfriends are talking, it's almost like we're fighting for air time. And not in this combative way, like not in a bad, negative, toxic way. It's just like, that's what a conversation is. You're a little bit fighting for air time. And with the coaching, I will speak 10 % of the time. Chelsea Henderson: you Yeah. Dani Ragel: And I remember people saying, well, then what do you talk about? I was like, I don't talk. I listen. That's my job. And then to listen for those things where it's like, yeah, listen and hold space. And then just also be a mirror of like, I heard you say this, and I felt a little bit of energy around it. Do you want to talk about that a little bit more? And then it gives them, Abby and I talk about this all the time. It gives them something to respond to. It's not that I think, oh, you should talk about this more. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah, you listen. You listen. Listen and hold space. Abby: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: Mm-hmm. Mm. Dani Ragel: It's that I'm giving you an opportunity to go, no, I actually don't think I have anything else to say on that. Done. Done. It's just time to respond to something. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Great. Yeah, absolutely. I heard recently interesting people are interested. And I thought that was a really cool thing. Because I was like, yeah, that is that is so true. Like a person that you find really interesting at a party was just really interested in all that they're taking in all that they're hearing. They're curious they and they want to hear you and you know, because I think back to the beginning of the conversation, we were talking about the identity of like a title. Abby: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I sometimes... ⁓ go ahead. Dani Ragel: Mmm. Mmm. Abby: in you, in the people. Chelsea Henderson: Right. And I'm so curious. A lot of times I'm very rarely brave enough to do this outside of my own sphere. But instead of being like, hi, I'm Chelsea. Who are you? You know, what do you do to just be like, who are you? Like, that's what I really want. I could give a fuck what you do. It doesn't matter to me. Like, unless you're the surgeon that's about to operate on me, we don't need to talk about that. Who are you? That means something to me. Even then, please. Abby: Yeah, even then I hope he has some hobbies because otherwise he's just full of ego. Chelsea Henderson: And if you're my surgeon, I hope that you are just like totally focused in and we're not even talking, right? Like that's not your job. Just just do your job. But the who are you is so curious to me. And I find that to be so provoking because I don't know how to answer that question easily. And then I am kind of sifting, right? Then I am doing that thing of like because you talk about that with the with the voice notes. And I think voice notes are so powerful for us, especially as women, because Dani Ragel: Mm-hmm. Abby: Mmm. Chelsea Henderson: historically, we have not been so isolated. We talk to each other constantly. It's how we know we're safe. It's how we know we're okay alive. It's how we know that the shit we need to get done is getting done. We have lived communally and we've been, hey Abby, how's the rice going? Danny, how are the children? know, how, you know, how's it going with the hunt? How's it going building the house? Like we're checking in and talking constantly. That call and response is part of how we have evolved. So now that we're just sitting in our homes and these like lonely isolated things staring at screens, we're starving for what has always been for us as a species. And I think that that is such an important thing when I'm trying to connect with like my soul, my essence, like this soul is trying to fit into this body and this body is holding this epigenetic kind of history that is going. Dani Ragel: Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: Talk more, connect more. What are you doing in your house by yourself? Like this is the saddest existence. And that's a judgment. And I shouldn't. Maybe I don't want to go there, but like talk more, connect more, hear more. That's that's information. And that is keeping the aliveness going. Right. So that feels profound to me. So sorry. I just went back and touched on like five things that I've been holding in my head this whole time, but they all felt really important. Abby: Mmm. You Mm-hmm. Dani Ragel: No, I love that. And it also reminds me of like, just if I'm having a real, I'll call it like a swirly day, just a day where I'm like, feel really dysregulated and I feel confused and I feel numb and I feel a little bit paralyzed, but I also want to do things. I, you know, we, I think we know the feeling. I'm like the power of a voice note to one girlfriend or the power of me having a 60 minute coaching call. Abby: So good. It's beautiful. Chelsea Henderson: Mmm, yep. You Yes. Abby: ⁓ yeah. Chelsea Henderson: Absolutely. Dani Ragel: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like all of this noise that felt so loud, so heavy, so real, so urgent, just settled. So the totally to your point, Chelsea, of like the, just the little check-ins of the community. And I think a lot of people at the core, think two things that a lot of people can agree on either wanting or just acknowledging that it could be something that like, ⁓ I could see why people would want that is freedom and community. I think those things are, Chelsea Henderson: Yes. Absolutely. Abby: Mm-hmm. Dani Ragel: like so, so paramount. And for me, I'm like time freedom, food freedom, schedule freedom, like all of that. And then community of just having, it's like when somebody lives alone and they're like, please just get an animal. Like I don't care if it's like a lizard you can talk to, a bird, a dog, just like something, just any sort of other living thing. Yeah, exactly. It's like. Chelsea Henderson: Mm. Abby: Yes. Chelsea Henderson: Absolutely. Something else with a heartbeat. Yes! Abby: Yes, something else to feed and take care of and check in on and get yourself out of bed because the cat hasn't eaten yet and just like we're supposed to be with other beings. Yeah. Dani Ragel: Yes! Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Dani Ragel: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: ⁓ yes. they, they, that's the coexistence, right, of being alive together, that this was never supposed to happen individually, was never supposed to happen in a vacuum. And Danny, I think one of the things I resonated with so much when we started is you talking about your hyperindependence. And I had that too, of just that self-protection of hyperindependence, that identity of hyperindependence. And I think that there's a, ⁓ lack of that kind of interconnection of coexistence that is so necessary for us as a species like None of this happens in a vacuum absolutely nothing you can be the most independent person in the world and you're relying on Hundreds of thousands of people and you don't even recognize it every button we click Hundreds of thousands of people are behind that every piece of food we eat tens of thousands of people probably have been involved in that in one way or the other in an Abby: Mm-mm. ⁓ Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: So when I'm having those moments of being like, it's just me, I'm an island, you know, and then like I do, I'm so independent and my animals are great. mean, George will come up to me and just be like, paw on face, like get out of your head, lady. You are not. That's not real. Like we're just living creatures and we're dirty and messy and fantastically alive. And like, let's just pet each other right now, because that's the beauty of life. Like, let's just do that. Abby: I'm so independent, I take care of myself. You're like, Dani Ragel: You You just reminded me of something you'd said earlier, Chelsea, that I was like, god, that's such a brilliant point. so when you said, like, we're just messy, one of my girlfriends says, we're big, stinky babies. And I love that. I think that another thing of just the messiness, just accepting the messiness of it all, of that I'm multi-dimensional, I'm multi-faceted, I can feel one way one day, another way the other day, and that there's nothing wrong with it. I feel like for so much of my upbringing, was trying to make me normal or trying to make me constant. maybe for some people, that does work. But me as a manifesting generator, nope. I'll go from one thing to the next thing, and it's not because I'm flighty. It's nothing negative. It's just like, that's who I am. And I just wrote. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: Mm-hmm. Mm-mm. Dani Ragel: an article, which Abby, thank you so much for your email response to that. I really appreciated that. Cause I was like, scary. This is me. But I just put out a piece of work on Substack and I, I walked through like the coaching of myself, basically of what I'll ask. And I think that for some times some people don't want Abby: I loved it. I loved it. Dani Ragel: to ask themselves the questions because they're afraid of what it might uncover. a small example of that is when I was engaged to my now husband. On my walks, I would have this thought. It was a real intrusive thought of, maybe you don't want to marry him. And I was like, I do, I do. I do. I do. I do. And I just would not entertain that. I was like, no, I'm not identifying with that. I'm not entertaining that in any way, shape, form. And finally, one day, I was like, fine. I will let this thought in, and I will entertain you. So I was like, OK, come on in. You think I don't want to be married to this person? And as I asked myself these questions, Abby: Yeah. Dani Ragel: What I got to was how much I really want to marry this person. All it did was solidify things for me. It gave me some awareness. But I think that's kind of a common thing that sometimes people can feel when getting married, of like, is this right? Is this the right person? And it's like, it's not bad to feel these things or to think these things, really, is more what I'm saying. It's not bad to think these things. It's like, another thing that I thought yesterday was Abby: Mm. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Dani Ragel: I realized that I have some attachment to my material possessions. And I didn't really want to admit that because that felt really materialistic. It felt really like. I don't know, just gross to me. But it's like, OK, can I get past the judgment here so that I can actually understand what this is trying to tell me? And so when you were talking about, the messiness of being a human or just not always identifying with the thing, it's like I can think this thought without it being true. It's just can I at least get to what is at the. Abby: Right. Chelsea Henderson: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Dani Ragel: the root of it. And that's the whole thing is I feel like people get so scared of what's at the surface that they're like, no, no, no, no, no, we're not going to open that up. But it's like, if you open that up, just like what I did with my husband, it wasn't that it showed me, yeah, you don't want to get married to him. He's really not the one. Which by the way, if that's what I came to, better I know that now. Like better I knew that before I got married. But no, it just solidified my love for him. And then that thought was gone. I never had it again. And I had. Chelsea Henderson: Yes. Right? Yeah. Abby: Yeah. Yes. Dani Ragel: I was at such ease and happiness on our wedding day. There was no part of me that was like, is this right? Is this right? Because I'm like, I already walked through that. I already walked through that. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I let it in. Chelsea Henderson: the question. I let it in. Yeah and how much energy we exert that I'm thinking of that while you're talking of like I'll speak for myself how much energy I exerted and probably still do trying to somehow feel like I have any control over ⁓ this life and you know that seems like such a like my example is maybe a little on the heavier side but like my mother got sick when I was 15 and she died when I was 25 and it was a long 10 years and it was a very definitive 10 years for a young girl and for the oldest of three girls and I had the constant plaguing thought that I kept at bay was like what will it be like the day she dies, the moment like everything Dani Ragel: Hmm. Chelsea Henderson: Everything must stop, right? Everything must deteriorate. Everything must cease to exist because it's so horrible. I can't imagine it. And I held it in this way that was very tight and very constricting and very... It put a lot of pressure. Like I somehow could do anything about it aside from to just be... And I'm proud of myself that a lot of the time during that I allowed for just like I can't answer that but I can be here now with her, right? And I got so much time that I'm so grateful for that a lot of people whose parents live to be 80 or 90 never get probably so like the time thing is more human than anything else but it's that feeling of like I can feel it in my body the tension of trying to control something like the ocean. You you cannot control it and the effort that is exerted in trying to do so takes you out of your present life and you're Dani Ragel: Mm-hmm. Abby: Mm-hmm. yeah Dani Ragel: Mmm. Chelsea Henderson: to create all the beautiful things we can create. And there's something there that feels very human to me ⁓ and very almost modern to me too of just this like hyper awareness of self, hyper awareness of each other in so much that it actually takes us away from knowing ourselves and each other. And there's that kind of control there of like that if that intrusive, that's intrusive, that's it's a bad question to ask. And if I don't stop it, then Abby: Hmm. Dani Ragel: Mm-hmm. Abby: Hmm. Chelsea Henderson: it's going to illuminate something, right? Like if I didn't stop that question of what it would be like when she died, then she wouldn't die. And it's like, well, either way she's going to die. Whether she dies at 45, which she did, and that was very young, and that was hard, and that was a shame, or she dies at 95. Dani Ragel: Mm-hmm. Abby: Hmm. Chelsea Henderson: it's going to happen, right? And what is gonna matter is these moments that I get to have with her and being a daughter to someone and all of those things. And that was happening in those present moments and it was happening because I wasn't trying to fight. Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: that too much, right? I was not trying to be like, I can hold this together. I could stop this from happening. I can do that. And I think when you talk about people not wanting to do the inner work, that is there for so many of us. It's like, if I open that box, it's all over. I can't control any of this. And I think the exhilarating, overwhelmingly beautiful and simple part of it for me has been you open that box and it it's not overwhelming. It's pure. Dani Ragel: Yeah. Abby: Mm. Dani Ragel: Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: It's true. It's messy. It's convoluted. is, I like how you say it, you said it's, it moves, right? It's not solid, but it's not everything. It's not the monster for me. It wasn't the monster that I had created. It was absolute simplicity. was contentment. It was equilibrium. It was balance. It was centeredness. Dani Ragel: Mm. No. Hmm. Chelsea Henderson: It was wholeness in a way. Not to say that I'm like whole, you know, but hello. Someone else is making an appearance. ⁓ I love it. Yeah. Dani Ragel: See you. Abby: Mmm. Yes. Dani Ragel: Someone woke up from her nap. But Chelsea, yeah, thank you for sharing that. I, it makes me, it reminds me, because even though I've done this work for, don't even know how many years, I know what inner work does for me. I just like you guys, was telling you guys earlier, like I was resisting going in. I was resisting checking in. I did not, I just didn't want to. And even though I've seen time and time again that what's on the other side isn't scary, that what's on the other side is, my truth. And that what's on the other side is what sets me free. What's on the other side is, is where I get that. Chelsea Henderson: Absolutely. Yeah. Yes. ⁓ Dani Ragel: peace, that grounding, that clarity, that direction that I have just been scrambling for and trying to find in other things. Because I'm like, well, it's kind of like I remember when, ⁓ you know, if people are on a diet and it's like, we'll just take this supplement or do this powder or ⁓ only eat carbs, only eat, you know, whatever. It's like all these things. And then at the end of the day, it's like, Time and time again, what's been proven is just this intuitive eating for like eating for our body type and eating in a way that's satiating. And it's a really simple fix at the end of the day for our health and nutrition or if we're trying to maintain our weight or whatever. a lot of, at least myself, I'll speak for myself, it's like I didn't want to just watch what I ate or adjust what I ate. I wanted to take something new. I wanted to add something else. And it was like, Abby: Mm-hmm. Dani Ragel: Adding to my plate, my metaphorically, adding to my plate is not where I'm going to find the thing that I'm seeking. It's like removing things and being with what's really here. this reminds me of when you were talking about your question of ⁓ instead of asking people, what do you do? And I think you said, who are you? through coaching, I've learned of just questions that can feel. Chelsea Henderson: Yes. Right. Abby: Mm-hmm. Dani Ragel: overwhelming or vague or saying, why do that thing? Why can feel more accusatory? And so something that I'll ask is, what's lighting you up right now? And I find that one of two things usually happens. One is someone will go, ⁓ I'm really enjoying this one thing. And then I just get to watch them talk about this thing that they're really enjoying. And I'm like, cool. I'm all in. I'm going to ask you more questions about this thing. And then the other thing that will happen is I'll see, and this one is a little bit more heartbreaking and why it's kind of a gamble, is I'll see somebody realize they don't. They don't have something that's lighting them up right now. And I'm like, to me, I want to be like, that's OK. But I'm like, it's not my job to do this. It's like maybe I was just here to offer that moment of clarity of like, ⁓ what am I doing that lights me up? ⁓ Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: I know. I know. Abby: have anything. Yeah. Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: Mmm. Dani Ragel: But yeah, because the last thing that I'll say on this is when I'm thinking about, like if I'm having, when you were talking about control, Chelsea, and you mentioned, I think you said it's like trying to control the ocean or like manage the ocean. I was like, ⁓ my gosh, is that not such a beautiful, impactful visual and how that actually feels for me? When I'm in those moments of like really, Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Dani Ragel: I'm too hyper-focused on something. I'm too zeroed in. I'm not expanded out enough to see the full picture and remember that the age-old thing of we're fleck of dust hurling through the cosmos. Yeah, we are giants, Abby. We are giants, Abby: Yeah, we're on a planet. We're giants, Danny. Chelsea Henderson: We're stuck. Abby: you Dani Ragel: And I'm trying to seize that control or search for that control. It's like, what would it be like if I were to release this? Which I think is different than just telling someone, let it go. It's like, what would it feel like for me to release this, to even lessen the grip just a little bit? And then also, what would it feel like to let this in? And I really do think about this metaphor. In my head, I see this room with a table and chairs, and it's me. And I say, OK. Abby: Hmm. Chelsea Henderson: Yes. Yes. Dani Ragel: Come on in. You can come in, whatever it is, whether it's like this anger, frustration, resentment, worry, whatever it is. It's like, I'm going let you in, and I'm going to hear what you have to say. just like we've been talking about, I don't think it takes really long. I once had a client who she said she felt bad about how she would reference herself as dumb. She'd be like, I'm dumb. I'm dumb. And she's like, I'm just being so mean to myself. I'm being so unkind to myself. And I said, let's bring that in. Let's just bring that in and see, does it have a color? Does it have a shape? And she's sitting there and we're doing this visualization. And so clearly she goes, ⁓ my god, it's younger me. And she's not being me. And she's really sad. And I was like, and there it is. it's like that did not take years. That took 60 seconds. Chelsea Henderson: Mm. Yeah. Yeah. There it is. Abby: Hmm. Hmm. Fear. Fear. Chelsea Henderson: Mm-hmm, yeah. Yeah. But I think that's that observer too, right? You're observing rather than judging, rather than trying to classify something that I feel like is a really powerful, it does create agency. Because I'm not then like, ⁓ I am. Abby: Beautiful. Dani Ragel: What? Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: victim to these things that are happening to me and I don't it just is like that's coming up for me what is it I can observe that I can let it be right allow it and you're absolutely right it is different than saying just let it go it's it's welcoming interaction and play with it and instead of just dropping it that's I think not possible for people or Abby: Yeah. Dani Ragel: Mm-hmm. Abby: Mmm. Chelsea Henderson: hard to do, to just drop something. Dani Ragel: Yeah. Abby: Because we do live in a material world, you know. We live in a material world. We want things or one question I really like and on this topic is like what do I hope that thing will make me feel? Like if it's my business, I'm like I have to make money. I have to be successful. I got to message all these people on LinkedIn and try to grow this and that. And it's like so much stress. And to be magnetic has helped me ask the question of what? Am I hoping I will feel when my business is successful? I'm hoping I will feel worthy when I'm making 10K months, whatever, whatever Instagram says, ⁓ hit 10K months. What do I think that that will give me? I'll feel worthy of taking up space on the planet, in my home. I'll feel like I'm contributing. I'll feel... Dani Ragel: you you Chelsea Henderson: Mm-hmm. Abby: status, I'll feel pride, like talking to someone else and being able to say I have a successful business, I make money in my business, which will make me again feel worthy. And so all of this is me trying to move around the material world in order to achieve an energetic state, which is what so many people, myself included, I see doing is like buying the Dani Ragel: Mmm. Abby: red sports car and the house and the house on the beach and the house in the mountains and the house over here and I work with high level surgeons, wealthy people. They are not always happy. A lot of the times they are miserable people. And it's like, I'm yeah, trying to manipulate the material world to achieve an energetic state when we can often skip that part and get to the energetic state, but that it's a different type of work. Chelsea Henderson: Mmm. I really like that. Dani Ragel: Will you repeat that and give it a little bit of space? When you talked about the materialistic and energetic, will you repeat that? Abby: Yeah, I think that I got it from, I've been listening to lot of Joe Dispenza, so Chesley will be like, ⁓ yeah. Well, he talks about in there of just the difference between energy and matter, and that matter is material. It is physical. You can touch it and pick it up and get in your red sports car and be like, look at me. Aren't I worthy, successful, important? And you're using it to achieve an energetic state. But like, we see so many people. have that energetic state with having nothing. Sometimes it's the homeless person dancing in the sun with a smile, ear to ear, and like all the cars passing by and all their stress don't have the energetic state that he has of like abundance. Or you see it in monks who have like two sets of clothes, and they have a level of peace that people who buy all this stuff or Chelsea Henderson: Mm. Dani Ragel: Mm-hmm. Abby: or live a certain way won't really maybe ever taste. So for me, it's been kind of just realizing I don't necessarily need more money, more stuff. I've been down that path. Like I saved up enough money to feel comfortable. And then my husband and I, would look at it and be like, I don't feel how I thought I would feel having saved up, you know, $150,000 or whatever. Chelsea Henderson: Absolutely. Dani Ragel: Mm-hmm. Abby: And you're looking at it, you're like, still feel vulnerable. I still don't feel safe. I still don't feel worthy. I still feel lonely because I spend all my time working and I don't have deep friendships. I don't have a friend I could just pick up and call and cry to. I don't have that kind of vulnerability in my life. So I still feel so poor. But all of society has told me to like build up this number. So that's what I've done. And you see so many people using their youth to build up this number. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Yes. Abby: when they're pursuing, yeah, there's like all that physical and not that more energetic connection. Like I feel so much more abundant having you two in my life than when I was working 40 hours a week and had 150K in the bank. you know, it's a different type of success. And I think that a lot of people are starting to wake up to that. They're starting to question the numbers on the screen and they're starting to really look at. relationships and connection. Chelsea Henderson: It's like if I feel rich, I'm rich, right? Because it's the feeling less anything else. Dani Ragel: Hmm. Yeah, and I think for so long I really subscribed or subjected myself to the thought of, oh my god, that's just so ignorant. Like, if I think I'm rich, then I'm rich. like, I don't need a fancy house. It's like, OK, that's like loser talk. Or that's like brainwash. And then the biggest plot twist of it all is that that's true. Chelsea Henderson: you Abby: Totally. Chelsea Henderson: Surfer bum. Dani Ragel: Like, it's incredibly true. It reminds me of when I started this money challenge with Abby to be magnetic. And it was like, well, what do you want to make money for? Like, what will you do with that money? And I was like, ⁓ I'm going to travel. I want to make $500,000 a year. And I want to do that so that I can travel. And then it was like, wait, I don't actually really love traveling. I just kind of want a home that I love being in that feels like I'm on vacation all the time. So it's like, Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah Abby: Yeah. Dani Ragel: But imagine how much of my time, energy, efforts, gifts, skill sets were going to be wasted trying to. And it wasn't going to happen. If I was going to try to make $500,000 a year, it wasn't going to happen because the higher energy power knows that's not actually what I want. And so I think sometimes when people are like, I've been working so hard for this thing. Why don't I have this thing? And it's like, because that's not for you. It's not that you don't deserve. It's not like you don't deserve happiness or a Abby: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Dani Ragel: career or a love life or anything like that. It's that like the specific thing that you might be trying to chase. Like for example, when I was dating, was like, must be 6'5". He has to have brown hair, brown eyes. like I had all of my, was like, this is who he will be. Yeah, exactly. I was like, you know, knew, yeah, is that really, you know? Chelsea Henderson: I love that voice. ⁓ Abby: Yeah. Yeah. I'm looking for a man in finance. Six-five blue eyes. Yeah. Is that what you really want, ladies? Chelsea Henderson: ⁓ my God, it's awesome. Dani Ragel: And then I just started thinking about, do I want to feel when he comes home? How do I want to feel when we're in a fight? When we're brushing our teeth next to each other, what is that energy like? I just started, this was years ago. This was before any sort of manifestation process. This was before I started doing any sort of energetic work. This was just something I randomly was like, I think I'm just going to think about how I want it to feel. The next weekend, ER came out to visit me. Chelsea Henderson: Yes, yes. Dani Ragel: And just for a little bit of context, we've known each other for a total of 16 years now. I met him because one of my girlfriends, it's her younger brother. And yes, I am older than him. Hey-o. by 3 and 1 years, to be exact. So I've known him for so many years. We dated in our early 20s. And then we broke up. I always say he broke up with me because he did. But then I always say. Abby: Hey-ho. Chelsea Henderson: ⁓ my. Dani Ragel: you did the right thing, baby. You really made the right call. And then he'll always say, it was the hardest thing I've ever done. I'm like, you keep saying that, baby. You always say that as your response. It's a great response. But then we'd stayed in contact. He was family. We'd known each other at that point for maybe 10 years, nine years or so. So he was family. So when he came out to visit, we were homies. And he was actually coming out to visit because a guy that I was seeing who lived in Tucson. Abby: That's right. That's right. Chelsea Henderson: Absolutely. Dani Ragel: decided, no, I actually don't want to keep doing this. And I was really sad. I was like, ⁓ I really like this guy. He's like, I'll come out. And through that, that's how we reconnected. And I was like, ⁓ my gosh, before I knew what manifestation was, I fully called you in, baby. Because I would think I'd be like, I want to feel safe with him. You know, like how I feel safe with ER. Or like, I would want us to be silly with each other. You know how ER and I are silly with each other. And then lo and behold, here was ER. Abby: Mm-hmm. Dani Ragel: I can't even remember what got me started thinking or talking. ⁓ well, it's just kind of back to the point, the energy exactly, where it's like, yeah, if I had chased this 6 foot 5 brown hair, brown eyed guy, I'd probably still to this day be like, why can't I find love? And it's like, because you're doing it all wrong, babe. Yeah. Yeah. Abby: Just the energy, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. ⁓ Abby: You're looking at this the material, not the actual like energetic. Yeah, totally. Chelsea Henderson: and he might fit the bill and then it feels awful being with him because it's not that alignment at all. Right? Totally. Dani Ragel: Yeah. Abby: Yeah, but it looks good on Instagram. Dani Ragel: Yeah, like all I was asking for was six, five brown hair, brown eyes. Like a lot of people could fit that bill. Like that's a smorgasbord of horror. Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah, yeah. And some of them are gay and some of them are fascist and some of them are just fine and some of them are, you know, not good in bed. I mean, there's like the whole thing, right? It just doesn't. And all of that is subjective, too. What's good for one person is bad for another and vice versa. So I think that's a really ⁓ there's like a high emotional intelligence that develops when we can ask like. Abby: Mm-hmm. Dani Ragel: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: for me with any clients I've ever had I do that like define let's define success for you which feels like such a silly exercise when you say it out loud in a space like just kind of generally and then you start doing it and you're like holy shit this is so powerful because it is exactly that like what is success to you is is very very deep value exercise of like what makes you feel good in your body and in your life and will allow you to Abby: powerful. Chelsea Henderson: be the best version of yourself, which I feel like hopefully we can all agree is what we all came here to do, right? This expansion of consciousness that is our stardust essence in these bodies, you know, that hopefully for me, I feel like my stardust essence came here to be the best version of this that I could be. And some of that is messy and some of that is highly imperfect in a kind of material sense, but it is all consciousness. Dani Ragel: you Abby: Mm-hmm. Dani Ragel: Mm. Chelsea Henderson: It's all experience that is feeding back into that, which from whence we came and giving information and giving kind of expansiveness. And I think that that is so powerful when we start to do that is like, know, success. What does that even mean? know, success for me is a feeling. There's a feeling of safety and wholeness and connectivity, connection, right? Those things are much more important to me. Abby: Yes. Dani Ragel: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Abby: Exactly, exactly. Chelsea Henderson: than numbers and suddenly you feel that and then the numbers match up too somehow. It's really interesting like it all kind of flows and that's Dani Ragel: Mm-hmm. Abby: Mm-hmm. Dani Ragel: Yeah Abby: It's sacred, ancient work. I mean, this is just, this is what the world needs more of. It's not just women, though we're women, I'm very women-focused, ⁓ everybody, but people reconnecting with their own version of abundance within. Like, it's just so important to do this work and to create this energy in our homes, like I talk about. Chelsea Henderson: It is. Yeah. Dani Ragel: Mm-hmm. Hmm. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Dani Ragel: Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Dani Ragel: Mm-hmm. Abby: a lot on this podcast, like how does my husband feel when he pulls into the driveway? Does he feel dread? Does he feel like, fuck, what am I gonna get today? Like, who's she gonna be? Which would be fine if I'm very, if I'm labile. But it's like, how do people feel coming into my home? How do people feel when they walk away from meeting me or interacting with me? And it's that energetic space. And I joke with Dani kind of recently that what is my purpose or what do I do? Like, what if I get to say, I'm a friend. Chelsea Henderson: Mm-hmm. Dani Ragel: Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: Mm. Yeah. Mm. Yeah. Abby: That's what I'm here to do actually. I'm a fucking dope friend. And I spend two hours a day voice memo-ing my girls, checking in on them, emoting, sharing, sometimes three. And I do yoga and I wake up and I make really good food for my family. I hold the space like my job is I'm a really dope friend. And that, how much do we need that in the world? Dani Ragel: Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Dani Ragel: Yep. Chelsea Henderson: ⁓ Yeah. Dani Ragel: Hmm. Chelsea Henderson: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Dani Ragel: Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: ⁓ hell yeah. ⁓ absolutely. I'm a really sacred mother and that was long before I actually had a baby. Like I have been a sacred mother and I will be and it not in the like mommy do my laundry kind of way. No fucking way. Do your own laundry. Everybody knows how to do that. It's so easy. No. And I'm like, I will hold that space and I will love you no matter what. And I will see you for who you are and I will feel you. Dani Ragel: Mm-hmm. Abby: Yeah. Dani Ragel: Hmm. Mmm. Abby: Mm-hmm. End. Chelsea Henderson: and I will nurture you and I will expect all of that in return. that is it that that is all enough. The dope friends, mother fuck yeah. Like that is all enough. It's all enough. Abby: Yes. Dani Ragel: Hmm. Abby: And I have seen you in action as a mother, Chelsea, and you are a sacred mother because you ask, among many things, you ask your son, how are you feeling? You know, like, that building emotional intelligence within our children of like, not just stop crying or don't talk about or any of that stuff a lot of us may be heard, but like, did that make you sad? Do you need a hug? What do you need? Tell me what you need. Chelsea Henderson: ⁓ honey. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Is sadness present? Yeah. But honey, right back at you. I've seen you being a dope ass friend and it's really inspiring and it's amazing and I get to benefit from it. I get to receive it and it's amazing and it's incredible work. And I think of all the coworkers I've ever had, it's material jobs and none of that stands out to me, but that work. Dani Ragel: Mm-hmm. Abby: and getting them to, you know, mm. Thank you. Hmm. Dani Ragel: Bye! Abby: Mm. Chelsea Henderson: totally stands out to me. So that's potent. Dani Ragel: Mm-hmm. Abby: Yeah. And it's the space that you both give me truly. It's been such a joy to have you all in the same space because I spend so much time with both of you, even though we all live in different states, which is wild. I spend so much time with both of you every day throughout the week, talking, voice memo, sending pictures, texting, listening to the same podcasts, reading the same sub stack articles, sharing our lives. And it's just been such a joy to like have you. Chelsea Henderson: I know, it's crazy. Yeah. Abby: both together and ⁓ to Danny to have you be a part of Modern Sacred here and this conversation and ⁓ she's so good. I love Danny. Dani Ragel: Hmm. Chelsea Henderson: ⁓ Thank you so much. You are badass. I've loved meeting you. Such a fabulous energy. I think we're the luckiest people in the world and I'm so grateful to be here. Thank you both. Dani Ragel: ⁓ you guys. thank you so much. Abby: Me too. Dani Ragel: OK, I'm just going to work on receiving. just going to work on receiving. My first initial thought was like, I'm going to slam this computer shut. I like, I can't even handle it. But I was like, no, no, no, no, no. I was like, open it up, open it up, receive it, receive it. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. I really appreciate your kind words. And also for just creating this space and for inviting me. Yeah, thank you for giving me a seat at the table. I really appreciate it. Chelsea Henderson: I know, me too. I'm out! Abby: Ehhhh Chelsea Henderson: Ugh, you sat so well in it. Abby: Always welcome at this table. Always. Chelsea Henderson: Well, we'll say goodbye to our ⁓ and ⁓ thank you for being with us and you for the conversation and thank you for being part of my tide aims to lift ⁓ all boats. I appreciate you both. The energy is, all I really need in this life. So I feel I feel rich as hell. ⁓ heck yeah. All right. Until next time. Abby: Mmm.