Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #1001 Gentle Parenting Under Fire

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#1001 Gentle Parenting Under Fire · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast.
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  Speaker 2: It's the podcast for.
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  Speaker 1: The time poor parent who just wants answers.
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  Speaker 2: Now, Well, Kylie, your voice is in real crash hot today,
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  Speaker 2: but we're going to do our best to get through
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  Speaker 2: today's podcast. Can you just say hi so everyone can
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  Speaker 2: hear how great you sound? Hi? You made it sound
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  Speaker 2: like your voice is fine. That's great. Gentle parenting is
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  Speaker 2: under fire. It has been quite a lot on social media.
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  Speaker 2: It's also the booming parenting style. It's the one that
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  Speaker 2: everybody wants to talk about. Kylie. Today we're going to
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  Speaker 2: examine what gentle parenting is, how it's looking, why it's
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  Speaker 2: looking that way, and just what you need to know.
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  Speaker 2: And I thought the best place to start was with
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  Speaker 2: some gentle parenting from Parental Guidance. In season one, we
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  Speaker 2: had our attachment parents. They were very, very gentle our
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  Speaker 2: attachment parents. They were trying to complete a challenge. One
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  Speaker 2: of the kids was doing it just fine, and then
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  Speaker 2: the other kid wanted to join in. That led to
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  Speaker 2: a whole lot of upset children and ultimately Raffi ended
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  Speaker 2: up outside at the car kicking the car, and Dad
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  Speaker 2: tried to step in and make things better.
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  Speaker 1: Trahi I want you to have some of that time. Rafi,
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  Speaker 1: do not kick that once more?
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  Speaker 2: Please, please, please. We don't be angry. We don't be violent.
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  Speaker 1: Do you want a dinged car that looks really wonky
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  Speaker 1: in Bombom.
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  Speaker 2: Is a weird one, okay, I said, it's not okay
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  Speaker 2: to kick.
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  Speaker 1: The car, Rafi, Raffi, do not kick that once more?
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  Speaker 2: Please, please, please, we don't be angry. So there was
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  Speaker 2: a lot of cringing happening in the studio. There are
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  Speaker 2: a lot of very awkward faces in the studio, including
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  Speaker 2: by the parents who are watching themselves looking completely impotent,
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  Speaker 2: totally incompetent in front of their little Raffi, who was
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  Speaker 2: so upset. Those dunk noises, by the way, were Rafi
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  Speaker 2: kicking the car in spite of the fact that he
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  Speaker 2: was being told not to kick the car.
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  Speaker 1: Maybe it was the use of bombong.
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  Speaker 2: We don't want to make the car bombong. That's what
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  Speaker 2: bog bong. So gentle parenting is under fire, and let's
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  Speaker 2: be honest. When you see gentle parenting in its purest form,
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  Speaker 2: which I guess is kind of what we were seeing there,
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  Speaker 2: it looks horrible, it looks hard, looks exhausting, well, we.
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  Speaker 1: Really need to define it, because I don't know if
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  Speaker 1: they were necessarily the best example of gentle parenting.
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  Speaker 2: Well, here's what's really interesting. We don't have much research
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  Speaker 2: on gentle parenting. It's never been academically defined at all.
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  Speaker 2: The so called self described gentle parenting founder Sarah Akwallsmith
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  Speaker 2: describes gentle parenting as a way of being. She says,
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  Speaker 2: it's a mindset with an emphasis on your child's feelings.
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  Speaker 2: But every definition I've ever read of gentle parenting is
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  Speaker 2: really vague. It's really general. It certainly doesn't match any
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  Speaker 2: academic descriptions of any other parenting style that's ever existed.
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  Speaker 2: It's just it's just this vibe, right, And the vibe
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  Speaker 2: is you respect your kids' feelings, and you try to
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  Speaker 2: work things out gently and kindly, and you sit with
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  Speaker 2: your children in their emotions while they were through them
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  Speaker 2: so that you can then get on with things. In
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  Speaker 2: so many ways. And this actually frustrates me in so
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  Speaker 2: many ways. It sounds like what I teach parents, except
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  Speaker 2: it feels like it's a magnified, caricatured version of what
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  Speaker 2: I teach. It misses the essential elements of what it
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  Speaker 2: is and we don't have any research evidence on it
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  Speaker 2: because you can't measure it if you can't define it.
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  Speaker 2: Right now, it hasn't even been defined. So normally, parenting
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  Speaker 2: styles develop out of research and evidence. So from the
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  Speaker 2: nineteen twenties through to about the nineteen seventies, we had
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  Speaker 2: behaviorism and that was basically don't hug your kids. And
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  Speaker 2: then from the nineteen eighties, nineteen nineties into the early
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  Speaker 2: two thousands, it was the attachment style, which was always
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  Speaker 2: hug your kids. And then we had free range parents,
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  Speaker 2: which is like, where are my kids? But now gentle
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  Speaker 2: parenting has kind of taken over the world. More than
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  Speaker 2: fifty percent of parents in one survey that I came
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  Speaker 2: across described themselves as gentle parents. It's been really pushed
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  Speaker 2: by the mummy blogers, the instantmums, the TikTok crowd, Dental
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  Speaker 2: parenting is everywhere, and yet it's really really poorly defined.
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  Speaker 2: And because it's poorly defined, basically permissive, indulgent parenting or
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  Speaker 2: parenting that's all about feelings and not about boundaries get
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  Speaker 2: slumped in as being called gentle parenting, which is why
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  Speaker 2: I don't like gentle parenting. I just think it's too vague.
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  Speaker 2: It's not helpful when.
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  Speaker 1: You see or hear a clip like we just played
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  Speaker 1: and recognize that that would be a depiction of gentle parenting.
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  Speaker 1: The first thing that comes to my mind is an
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  Speaker 1: absolute polar extreme from the way I would suggest most
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  Speaker 1: of our generation was raised. Yeah, heavy handed, very very controlling,
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  Speaker 1: strong boundaries, doo's and don'ts, children to be seen, not heard,
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  Speaker 1: our emotions, not really taken into account, and it feels
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  Speaker 1: like it's literally a rejection of everything that we were
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  Speaker 1: raised with to the polar extreme. Yes, it's like taking
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  Speaker 1: out all of the positive and there were positives, taking
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  Speaker 1: all of that out of the equation and going the
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  Speaker 1: complete other way.
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  Speaker 2: I was going to say something really similar as I
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  Speaker 2: talked to parents in parenting seven hours right around the country.
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  Speaker 2: So often parents will say, I just don't want to
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  Speaker 2: do to my kids what my parents did to me.
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  Speaker 2: The word that you use, that idea of a rejection
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  Speaker 2: really really resonates for me. There is a little bit
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  Speaker 2: of research that's just starting to be done, some research
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  Speaker 2: that was done by somebody called Annie Pizzala. She's a
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  Speaker 2: researcher at McAllister College in the United States. And in
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  Speaker 2: her research, what she basically found was that gentle parenting,
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  Speaker 2: again not well defined at all, is fundamentally about elevating
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  Speaker 2: our children's emotions. Kids and their emotions. That's the central theme.
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  Speaker 2: And I think that it grows out of work by
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  Speaker 2: John Gotman. He wrote a book called Raising an Emotionally
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  Speaker 2: Intelligent Child, which was a brilliant book, so well written,
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  Speaker 2: so well researched, really really carefully put together and gives
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  Speaker 2: great guidance. But again, gentle parenting is kind of blown
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  Speaker 2: up from that. It's been amplified, and there are really
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  Speaker 2: important nuances that have been missed. Like you said, it's
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  Speaker 2: kind of the whole. I'm going to reject previous generations
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  Speaker 2: and pick up on this and run with it. But
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  Speaker 2: there's nuance, there's detail. There are important things that aren't
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  Speaker 2: showing up in modern parenting, especially in this gentle parenting movement.
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  Speaker 2: And my pushback is that we're not our kids therapists.
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  Speaker 2: And one of the challenges with the whole raising an
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  Speaker 2: emotionally intelligent child the emotion coaching process, which when I
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  Speaker 2: first started running parenting seminars was brand new. Everyone was like, Wow,
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  Speaker 2: this is incredible. I love it. What's happened is everything
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  Speaker 2: has become about emotions. Emotions have become king. And when
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  Speaker 2: you do that, when you indulge your kids and their emotions,
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  Speaker 2: what ends up happening is the kids start to feel
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  Speaker 2: like they can get away with anything.
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  Speaker 1: So there's a saying that I've heard a number of
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  Speaker 1: times over the years where.
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  Speaker 2: Your attention, where your attention goes.
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  Speaker 1: Is your energy flows.
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  Speaker 2: That's it.
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  Speaker 1: And so when we think about this whole notion of
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  Speaker 1: emotions being key, If my child is anxious and we
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  Speaker 1: put so much emphasis on those feelings of anxiety, does
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  Speaker 1: that not then have the possibility of creating more anxiety?
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  Speaker 2: Exactly. The more you sit in that emotion, the more
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  Speaker 2: you focus on the emotion, the more you magnify and
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  Speaker 2: amplify and exacerbate and accelerate that emotion. The other thing
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  Speaker 2: that I would add to that is when we focus
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  Speaker 2: on our kids feelings, sometimes we do it at the
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  Speaker 2: expense of our own feelings or at the expense of
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  Speaker 2: the feelings of other people in the family. And so
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  Speaker 2: the kids really do believe that their feelings are the
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  Speaker 2: only feelings that matter, and rather we're trying to teach empathy,
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  Speaker 2: but we're reducing empathy because the kids feel like, well,
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  Speaker 2: I'm having an emotion and I need all of your
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  Speaker 2: attention and all of your focus now, which means that
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  Speaker 2: your priorities and the feelings, emotions, experiences of the other
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  Speaker 2: kids in the family all kind of get pushed to
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  Speaker 2: the side as well so that we can elevate this
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  Speaker 2: one child's emotions. It's not healthy for kids, it's not
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  Speaker 2: healthy for effective family functioning. No.
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  Speaker 1: Well, I know when I'm having a bad day and
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  Speaker 1: I'm feeling really sad. I love it when you respect
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  Speaker 1: the fact that I'm having a hard day. But you're
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  Speaker 1: not going to sit in that space with me and
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  Speaker 1: wallow with me. I don't want you to match my energy.
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  Speaker 1: I don't want you to sit there and help me
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  Speaker 1: to focus on all of the hard stuff because I
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  Speaker 1: don't want to be in that space.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, no offense, but I don't want to be there either,
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  Speaker 2: So there's no point me joining you in it for
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  Speaker 2: more than a minute or two just to say I
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  Speaker 2: get it.
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  Speaker 1: You're having a hard time, and I think that's probably
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  Speaker 1: where we might be falling a little bit short with
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  Speaker 1: our kids. The acknowledgment is, yeah, you're feeling really sad
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  Speaker 1: right now, But how do we move through that? And
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  Speaker 1: I think that that might be is something that is
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  Speaker 1: worth while talking about.
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  Speaker 2: Well, there's a second theme that came out of this
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  Speaker 2: McAllister College research with Annie Pezzlla, and I think that
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  Speaker 2: it's really worth highlighting. She pretty much said, parents are identifying,
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  Speaker 2: they are just hanging in there like they are hanging
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  Speaker 2: on for dear life. This was a recurrent theme, this
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  Speaker 2: gentle parenting elevating my children's emotions. I'm going to use
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  Speaker 2: the word indulging, although those who are subscribers to the
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  Speaker 2: gentle parenting philosophy would hate me for doing that. But
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  Speaker 2: this idea of indulging our children's emotional needs to the
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  Speaker 2: point that everything else stops. My needs, the rest of
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  Speaker 2: the families needs, everything stops so that I can indulge
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  Speaker 2: my child's needs. That aspect of gentle parenting is exhausting
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  Speaker 2: mums and dads, and it's making them feel like they
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  Speaker 2: are not competent. It's making them feel like they just
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  Speaker 2: can't do this. They're allowsy at it, they know and
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  Speaker 2: I promise you this, no matter how much you focus
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  Speaker 2: on your kids feelings, there's always going to be another feeling.
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  Speaker 1: I was about to say that, And there's no structure
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  Speaker 1: rhyme to emotions, so there's no do this, do this,
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  Speaker 1: do this, and everything's going to work out. Like emotions
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  Speaker 1: are fluid, they're changing all the time. Everybody feels them differently,
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  Speaker 1: and so as a parent who's trying to work it
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  Speaker 1: out from one child to the next, let alone their
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  Speaker 1: own emotions, it's a really, really intense But the thing
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  Speaker 1: that stands out to me the most is this idea
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  Speaker 1: of gentle parenting being a wave being. It's a mindset
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  Speaker 1: and the idea that emotions are important. So having a
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  Speaker 1: conversation with our kids and telling them that it's not
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  Speaker 1: okay to be angry that is not helpful either because
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: they are angry, right, But why does it have to
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  Speaker 1: be all or nothing? I actually loved watching Parental Guidance
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  Speaker 1: with our kids. When we sat down with them, I
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  Speaker 1: thought I'd just check in with them and see and
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  Speaker 1: I said, what parenting style do you think we are?
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  Speaker 1: And every single child in the room could listen about
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  Speaker 1: three or four different styles that they thought we might
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  Speaker 1: be because they're like, oh, you're a little bit free range,
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  Speaker 1: and you're a little bit gentle and I really love
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  Speaker 1: the attachment because you're really good like that. But they
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  Speaker 1: actually couldn't pinpoint it.
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  Speaker 2: They haven't read my book need Supportive Parenting Ortonomy Supportive Parenting.
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  Speaker 1: Well you didn't have that depicted, did you.
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  Speaker 2: Oh? Ok, yeah, that family wasn't.
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  Speaker 1: As we're having this discussion and I'm thinking about gentle
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  Speaker 1: parenting and I'm thinking about the conversations that we've had
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  Speaker 1: with our kids, the thing that stands out to me
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  Speaker 1: the most is why does it have to be all
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  Speaker 1: or nothing? Why can I not be a gentle person
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  Speaker 1: who strives to treat my children with respect while providing
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  Speaker 1: them with the boundaries and the structures that they desperately need.
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  Speaker 2: It sounds like you've been talking to me.
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  Speaker 1: Our kids need us to be the big people in
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  Speaker 1: the room. They need us to be the adults. They
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  Speaker 1: need us to be able to take control of this
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  Speaker 1: situation for them to feel safe and secure, but they
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  Speaker 1: also need us to do it with heart.
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  Speaker 2: You just reminded me of something. The pendulum swung. So
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  Speaker 2: when I first started doing this, maybe ten fifteen years ago,
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: probably fifteen years ago now, when I first started running
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  Speaker 2: these parenting workshops, there was still a lot of smacking.
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  Speaker 2: There were still a lot of parents that were pretty full on,
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  Speaker 2: pretty intense, pretty authoritarian. In twenty twenty four, the pendulum
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  Speaker 2: has swung right to the other end, and the kids,
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  Speaker 2: in so many ways really are being elevated, their emotions,
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  Speaker 2: their experience. It's all about the kids now. And when
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  Speaker 2: I run those sessions, I ask parents what the most
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  Speaker 2: common parenting responses are to challenging behaviors instead of yelling
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  Speaker 2: and smacking and time out and all those kinds of things.
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  Speaker 2: What I'm hearing more than anything gentle responses. I want
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  Speaker 2: to sit with my child, I want to understand them,
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  Speaker 2: I want to validate them. Like, the pendulum has swung
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  Speaker 2: so far to the other side of the divide, and
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  Speaker 2: we really do need to bring it back a little bit.
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  Speaker 2: I don't think that what I've been teaching has shifted
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  Speaker 2: very much, if at all. Rather, parenting has gone from
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  Speaker 2: one end to the other end, and I keep on
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  Speaker 2: trying to just bring it back to the middle a
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  Speaker 2: little bit. Basically, as you said, Kylie, be nice, be present,
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  Speaker 2: set boundaries, and then move forward. Kids need us to
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: be that prefrontal cortex. They need us to be competent
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  Speaker 2: They need us to be in control, but they need
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  Speaker 2: us to do it kindly and with empathy. And if
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  Speaker 2: we can do that, we don't need to worry about
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  Speaker 2: all the labels. We just become need supportive parents, which
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  Speaker 2: is what I've written about in The Parenting Revolution, and
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  Speaker 2: we don't have the same levels of exhaustion. It's not
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  Speaker 2: as emotionally draining. We don't have to get all caught
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  Speaker 2: up in the kids emotions.
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  Speaker 1: Well, I'm just putting it out there. I'm still a
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  Speaker 1: little bit exhausted.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, fair enough, parenting is exhausting. The Happy Families podcast
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: is produced by Justin Rowland for Bridge Media. Craig Bruce
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: is our executive producer. If you'd like more information about
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: making your family happier and getting your parenting style on song,
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: check out Happy Families dot com, dot you, or pick
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: up a copy of my book, The Parenting Revolution.