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After Losing His Husband, He Found Love Again at 74 · The Wisdom Trust Podcast for Gay Men 50+

0:00
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Wisdom Trust.
0:02
SPEAKER_01: I'm Lauren Crawford.
0:03
SPEAKER_01: This podcast is for gay men over 50 who sense there's more to this stage of life than we've been taught.
0:09
SPEAKER_01: More connection, meaning, honesty, and possibility.
0:12
SPEAKER_01: Each episode is a conversation with a thoughtful gay man who's navigating the deeper questions that often emerge in the second half of life: aging, identity, purpose, belonging, reinvention, community, love, and living consciously.
0:26
SPEAKER_01: These are not conversations about decline, they're conversations about becoming.
0:30
SPEAKER_01: I'm glad you're here.
0:33
SPEAKER_01: Hello, everyone.
0:34
SPEAKER_01: And today we're speaking with Dale Williams.
0:39
SPEAKER_01: And I want to start before introducing Dale, just to say that we're here because the participants in the Wisdom Trust are interested in sharing a bit of their story, something that's happened in their life that's been uplifting and inspiring potentially to all of you.
0:58
SPEAKER_01: Many of us at this stage in our life will find that maybe we're feeling we need a little bit of that inspiration.
1:03
SPEAKER_01: Maybe the idea of aging is something that's weighing a little bit heavily on us.
1:08
SPEAKER_01: The Wisdom Trust is here to change that narrative and to help us maybe see this stage of life as the best stage of life.
1:17
SPEAKER_01: So welcome, Dale.
1:19
SPEAKER_01: Dale is a 74-year-old gay man living in the desert, happy, healthy, active.
1:25
SPEAKER_01: He enjoys communicating with other senior gay men.
1:29
SPEAKER_01: He enjoys Facebook, television, books, music, art, movies, and the theater.
1:37
SPEAKER_01: Dale, can you go ahead and share with us a little bit more about yourself?
1:42
SPEAKER_01: Tell us who you are.
1:45
SPEAKER_00: Well, you said I'm a 74-year-old gay man, which I am.
1:53
SPEAKER_00: I moved to the desert almost 26 years ago from northern Nevada.
2:02
SPEAKER_00: I woke up one day and just decided I was tired of the cold stream to another.
2:07
SPEAKER_00: From blizzards to temperatures today over a hundred degrees.
2:13
SPEAKER_00: And it's only winter, not spring, which is highly unusual.
2:19
SPEAKER_00: We haven't experienced this before in March.
2:23
SPEAKER_00: But thankfully I have central AC so I don't suffer like some residents in the area.
2:34
SPEAKER_00: I have lived in San Francisco and South Lake Tahoe and Reno.
2:42
SPEAKER_00: I came to my town, Joshua Tree, almost 26 years ago after meeting my future husband.
2:53
SPEAKER_00: And I just fell in love with the desert, and living here is quite easy and mellow.
3:04
SPEAKER_00: I'm less than one hour from Palm Springs that I go to for entertainment and dining and visiting friends.
3:13
SPEAKER_00: It's always fun.
3:15
SPEAKER_00: I don't go to bars, I don't find them healthy or fun.
3:21
SPEAKER_00: Of course, when I was younger, I did, but that was decades ago.
3:28
SPEAKER_00: And I just found it boring.
3:31
SPEAKER_00: The same people sitting on the same bar stools, telling the same stories year after year, and I just found that sad.
3:40
SPEAKER_00: I've been alcohol free for 24 years of sobriety.
3:47
SPEAKER_01: What's life like in the desert?
3:49
SPEAKER_01: Tell us about that.
3:50
SPEAKER_00: The town I live in is more of a kickback to the 60s.
3:56
SPEAKER_00: Most of the people that live here that have lived here for a long time were escapees from Los Angeles and San Francisco and parts of the East Coast.
4:11
SPEAKER_00: We have a variety of people.
4:14
SPEAKER_00: In my little town, it's mostly artists, writers, musicians.
4:21
SPEAKER_00: That's the main occupations of the people here.
4:26
SPEAKER_00: Or if they're lucky, maybe they get to work in the national park that we have here.
4:32
SPEAKER_00: We have a really beautiful Joshua Tree National Park.
4:37
SPEAKER_00: I would invite everyone to experience it.
4:41
SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of good hiking trails, a lot of wildlife, and it's quite different than some of the other national parks we have, like Yosemite.
4:51
SPEAKER_01: I had the opportunity to go to Joshua Tree last year, and then something came up and prevented that from happening.
4:57
SPEAKER_01: And I kind of heard about it later from the participants.
5:00
SPEAKER_01: It sounds like an amazing place.
5:03
SPEAKER_01: So let's move over a little bit into part of these podcasts and the whole Wisdom Trust is about looking at a pivot, something that occurred, a fabulous moment that occurred in your life after 50.
5:20
SPEAKER_01: Let's be clear, the fabulous moment could have been something at the at the time that was devastating, but it led to a whole new iteration of yourself, a whole new, you know, Dale 2.0, could we should we say?
5:33
SPEAKER_01: What was the pivot, the big sort of shift that happened for you?
5:37
SPEAKER_00: I met my husband online.
5:39
SPEAKER_00: I know some people would say, oh, you met someone online, but that's how it worked out.
5:46
SPEAKER_00: I've always been interested in the internet and my computer.
5:52
SPEAKER_00: And I was grilling one day and saw his picture on a site that no longer exists.
6:01
SPEAKER_00: And we just headed off.
6:02
SPEAKER_00: And the next thing I knew, he was on a plane to come and visit me in Reno.
6:09
SPEAKER_00: And we just clicked.
6:11
SPEAKER_00: And for about a year it was a long-distance relationship.
6:15
SPEAKER_00: I had spent over 20 years working in the casinos of Lake Tahoe in Reno.
6:21
SPEAKER_00: And he flew over to visit with me, and we just clicked and it went from there.
6:27
SPEAKER_00: And it was about a year later, I just said goodbye to Reno and packed up and moved in with him.
6:36
SPEAKER_00: And as soon as we were allowed to legally marry, we did.
6:41
SPEAKER_01: Nice, nice.
6:43
SPEAKER_01: And you were together for we were together actually about 26 years.
6:50
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
6:50
SPEAKER_00: He passed away about three years ago this month.
6:56
SPEAKER_00: And I can't say I didn't see it coming because he did have major heart issues.
7:05
SPEAKER_00: But I stayed with him and helped him go to the light.
7:10
SPEAKER_00: And that was really incredible.
7:13
SPEAKER_01: Can you tell us a bit about that?
7:15
SPEAKER_01: That sounds very fascinating that you you were accompanying him to his next journey.
7:21
SPEAKER_01: So share, share with us because some people may have a perspective on that that can be pretty heavy and dark.
7:27
SPEAKER_01: So share with us what yours was.
7:30
SPEAKER_00: My experience was we both had the feeling that you know death is inevitable.
7:37
SPEAKER_00: It comes to all of us.
7:39
SPEAKER_00: So you can prolong it, you can delay it, but it's coming.
7:44
SPEAKER_00: And you have to be mentally prepared.
7:48
SPEAKER_00: With his issues, I had to call an ambulance and take him to the hospital.
7:54
SPEAKER_00: And cutting to the chase, the last day, I had been in the hospital every day for three days.
8:05
SPEAKER_00: And the doctor and the nurses were trying to tell me, well, it's time to take him off life support.
8:14
SPEAKER_00: You know, his kidneys are failing.
8:16
SPEAKER_00: It's not going to get any better.
8:19
SPEAKER_00: And I delayed it for a day thinking, well, maybe it might get better, who knows?
8:24
SPEAKER_00: Because doctors don't always know.
8:27
SPEAKER_00: I had an aunt that they gave her six months to live and she lived for 28 more years.
8:37
SPEAKER_00: Right.
8:39
SPEAKER_00: But anyway, finally I decided, well, I was his principal caretaker and I made all the decisions.
8:50
SPEAKER_00: So on the final day I held him as they pull the plug and I told him it's okay.
9:01
SPEAKER_00: I said, You can go to the light now.
9:03
SPEAKER_01: Beautiful.
9:04
SPEAKER_00: And that's when he passed.
9:06
SPEAKER_01: How did that feel in your body?
9:09
SPEAKER_01: How did you experience that?
9:12
SPEAKER_00: I felt really cold and empty.
9:17
SPEAKER_00: Incredible sadness.
9:19
SPEAKER_00: But I remembered he had a really long, happy life.
9:25
SPEAKER_00: He experienced many things.
9:28
SPEAKER_00: Not many people get to live to be seventy-four.
9:34
SPEAKER_00: He was 74 when he died.
9:36
unknown: Okay.
9:38
SPEAKER_00: He had been a social worker.
9:39
SPEAKER_00: He had owned a yogurt shop.
9:42
SPEAKER_00: Went to university, went to the army during the Vietnam era, but he wasn't there.
9:49
SPEAKER_00: He was spent the whole tour of duty at Fort Leavenworth, being a social worker.
9:56
SPEAKER_00: And he was very much a humanistic person, very kind.
10:03
SPEAKER_00: Anybody asked for help, he would help them.
10:06
SPEAKER_01: Wonderful.
10:07
SPEAKER_00: And I have good memories.
10:09
SPEAKER_00: And then after his passing, I didn't bother to date or even look right for anything.
10:17
SPEAKER_01: So after his passing, I just want to let's explore this a little bit.
10:21
SPEAKER_01: So you went from this beautiful loving relationship of 20 plus years, and then there's not the relationship.
10:29
SPEAKER_01: So let's look at that as the pivot, right?
10:32
SPEAKER_01: And so in that pivot, what what did that look like?
10:36
SPEAKER_01: I I like to frame it from this point of view that it freed you from something.
10:40
SPEAKER_01: So what were you perhaps liberated from?
10:48
SPEAKER_00: And probably the first eight, nine months, I was really kind of mentally just going through all the paces of carrying on life.
11:07
SPEAKER_00: Only thing I can grow is cactus, but I have a lot of different cacti.
11:23
SPEAKER_00: My daughter that lived in Reno moved in with me to help out with the house because the house was really big and I needed help.
11:35
SPEAKER_00: And she can work from home, so it works perfectly for her.
11:39
SPEAKER_00: I don't have to worry about cooking.
11:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that seemed to be the hardest part of Michael's passing, was just trying to think, what am I gonna cook today?
11:52
SPEAKER_01: Right.
11:52
SPEAKER_01: Some of these smaller things that we may not think about.
11:56
SPEAKER_01: And here your daughter comes and frees you from that maybe loneliness and the what am I gonna cook today?
12:02
SPEAKER_01: Energy, right?
12:04
SPEAKER_00: And then last summer, someone found me, and I met him for coffee and talk.
12:15
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so let's move into that next part.
12:18
SPEAKER_01: So this is now a whole new chapter for Dale.
12:22
SPEAKER_01: So tell us about this.
12:24
SPEAKER_00: I met Alejandro last June, and we communicated and met for coffee and really headed off.
12:35
SPEAKER_00: I'm 74, he's 50, and we've been seeing each other ever since.
12:43
SPEAKER_00: Nice.
12:44
SPEAKER_00: He is uh born and raised in Mexico City, but he's a Canadian citizen now, and we have a lot in common.
12:54
SPEAKER_00: We go places, we go to concerts, we go to LGBTQ sponsored events in the area.
13:03
SPEAKER_00: He has two dogs, we take our dogs to the park, and he's kind of like a bright light in my life at this point.
13:12
SPEAKER_00: Beautiful, somewhat I never expected.
13:16
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
13:17
SPEAKER_01: And so tell us about that.
13:19
SPEAKER_01: Like how how are you feeling in the biggest sense of the word, in terms of now finding love again at the young age of 74?
13:28
SPEAKER_00: Well, it was something I didn't anticipate or even think would happen.
13:35
SPEAKER_00: But it's like I think I told you things happen when you least expect it.
13:40
SPEAKER_00: We have a lot in common.
13:42
SPEAKER_00: I've learned from him, he's learned from me, a lot of shared experiences.
13:47
SPEAKER_01: Can you tap into that?
13:48
SPEAKER_01: Because I think a lot of us would assume, well, you're the elder, what could you learn from someone who's, you know, a couple of decades different in age?
13:57
SPEAKER_01: So tell us about that.
13:58
SPEAKER_01: That's that's fascinating.
14:00
SPEAKER_00: At first, I really wondered, would we have anything in common because of a 24-year age difference?
14:10
SPEAKER_00: But we had more in common than not.
14:16
SPEAKER_00: We are both very much into music.
14:19
SPEAKER_00: He plays the guitar, and he's not in a band, but he wants to be as a side thing.
14:28
SPEAKER_00: He's told me about life in Mexico and New England and Toronto, and I learned some things.
14:36
SPEAKER_00: I've never been to New England.
14:38
SPEAKER_00: I have been to Mexico and Canada many years ago.
14:42
SPEAKER_00: Love Canada.
14:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:48
SPEAKER_00: Besides travel and good food and music and good movies and live theater.
14:57
SPEAKER_00: We have discussions on all of those issues.
15:00
SPEAKER_00: He's learned a lot from me about music that he didn't know about.
15:05
SPEAKER_00: I've learned some things from him about music and culture I didn't know about.
15:11
SPEAKER_00: We're very much equals, have a love for a lot of the same arts.
15:17
SPEAKER_01: Beautiful.
15:18
SPEAKER_00: And we like, you know, going outside and hiking.
15:21
SPEAKER_01: Not today, but not in a hundred plus degrees, I would imagine.
15:29
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
15:30
SPEAKER_00: But I am going to be with him on Saturday.
15:34
SPEAKER_01: The loss of a first wonderful partner, and then that empty feeling initially filled by your daughter coming to live with you, and then love dropping into your life.
15:45
SPEAKER_01: That's pretty special.
15:46
SPEAKER_01: So, does that give you a sense of freedom, perhaps, in a in a way that maybe you weren't anticipating?
15:54
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
15:55
SPEAKER_00: I've always had a sense of freedom in my life.
15:59
SPEAKER_00: I've always had that feeling like I was, you know, free.
16:03
SPEAKER_00: But then it's like Janice Joplin said freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose.
16:09
SPEAKER_01: Beautiful.
16:10
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, I love that.
16:12
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
16:15
SPEAKER_01: Nice.
16:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, nothing left to lose.
16:18
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I've always been uh a free thinker.
16:23
SPEAKER_00: When I was working, I never bought in the visual party lines.
16:28
SPEAKER_00: I always thought of thinking outside of the box.
16:32
SPEAKER_00: What can we do better?
16:35
SPEAKER_00: And in my life, I'm always thinking, what can I do that's better?
16:40
SPEAKER_01: Let's move into that.
16:42
SPEAKER_01: So, what can you do that's better?
16:44
SPEAKER_01: This is the portion that I like to look at that's sort of leveling up.
16:48
SPEAKER_01: How is that happening right now?
16:50
SPEAKER_01: So, your phrase doing better, what does that look like at 74?
16:57
SPEAKER_00: Well, probably the main thing is I've lost a lot of friends.
17:02
SPEAKER_00: Some didn't make it to 74 for one reason or another.
17:08
SPEAKER_00: And that's sad that I stop and take stock of who's left in my once upon a time big group of friends.
17:18
SPEAKER_00: And it's like every year I lost one or two more.
17:23
SPEAKER_00: Or locally, maybe somebody moved out of state to another place for whatever reason.
17:29
SPEAKER_00: I do find it hard to find really good people to be friends with in my age group.
17:37
SPEAKER_01: Well, why do you think that is?
17:39
SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of people are stuck in a rut in their own way, and they don't have an open mind to accept new adventures and try new things.
17:54
SPEAKER_00: I'm always trying something new.
17:57
SPEAKER_00: Last year I just finished a pottery class.
18:00
SPEAKER_00: I've never done pottery before.
18:03
SPEAKER_00: I also went back to my art and started with watercolors and charcoals and pastels that I hadn't done in years, and I got more into that.
18:16
SPEAKER_00: Of course, I think everybody here in my town thinks they're an artist to some degree or another.
18:24
SPEAKER_01: All the power to them, right?
18:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like express yourself.
18:29
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
18:30
SPEAKER_00: Express yourself.
18:31
SPEAKER_00: It's relaxing, and you know, you always discover something new.
18:36
SPEAKER_01: Find out more about the wisdom trust at school.
18:39
SPEAKER_01: School.com slash the dash wisdom dash trust slash about.
18:46
SPEAKER_01: Our webpage is thewisdomtrust.com on substack or the wisdom trust.substack.com.
18:54
SPEAKER_01: And if you're not watching this on YouTube, youtube.com slash at the wisdom trust my own.
19:05
SPEAKER_01: I think there's something really beautiful about creativity that a lot of us kind of forget about.
19:13
SPEAKER_01: When you're doing that work and when you're when you're with your your sweetheart.
19:18
SPEAKER_00: Alejandro.
19:19
SPEAKER_01: Alejandro.
19:21
SPEAKER_00: Just like the uh what is it?
19:24
SPEAKER_00: The Lady Gaga song.
19:27
SPEAKER_00: Alejandro.
19:28
SPEAKER_01: Alejandro.
19:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you sound like that.
19:31
SPEAKER_01: So when you're with your love or when you're doing your art, you're in those creative moments, that sounds like you and in in the field of fun.
19:41
SPEAKER_01: And tell us more about how having fun, so creative expression, what else are you doing at this stage in your life to find that levity, that lightness?
19:52
SPEAKER_01: Because we all know that the aging journey can be a little bit challenging.
19:57
SPEAKER_01: And if we get stuck in perhaps, you know, the decline of the body and the shifting things that it can be a little bit overwhelming, a little bit daunting.
20:07
SPEAKER_01: So, how, in your words, well, in your experience, really, how are you maintaining like that lightness, the fun, and showing up for your life, maybe a little bit differently?
20:19
SPEAKER_00: Well, number one, I don't take anything seriously anymore.
20:24
SPEAKER_00: Nice, you know, because life is what it is, life is short in terms of time, so you make the most of it, and instead of looking at things negatively, I try to find something positive in everything.
20:44
SPEAKER_00: Beautiful, things happen for a reason for every action, there's a reaction, and that's what I believe.
20:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
20:54
SPEAKER_01: Is there a particular practice that you have?
20:57
SPEAKER_01: Because I know that's an area where a lot of us struggle, right?
21:01
SPEAKER_01: To see the positive, especially if you turn on the news, and unfortunately, a lot of us get addicted to that narrative, and it's so unhealthy.
21:09
SPEAKER_01: Is there a practice that you use that helps you to keep seeking and being in the positive?
21:16
SPEAKER_00: Number one, I cut out negative people from my life.
21:24
SPEAKER_01: So you made a conscious decision, I'm not being around certain people.
21:28
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
21:29
SPEAKER_00: It's like I realized we may have been friends for decades and decades, but we don't really have that much in common nowadays.
21:39
SPEAKER_00: And their negativity and their politics, I find negative.
21:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's toxic energy that comes along.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: Along with it, right?
22:01
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
22:02
SPEAKER_00: I don't do drama and trauma.
22:05
SPEAKER_00: That's something I left behind years ago.
22:09
SPEAKER_01: Nice.
22:10
SPEAKER_00: As my mantra.
22:11
SPEAKER_00: No drama, no trauma.
22:13
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love that.
22:14
SPEAKER_01: Beautiful.
22:15
SPEAKER_01: No drama, no trauma.
22:16
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
22:18
unknown: Yeah.
22:19
SPEAKER_00: I keep things peaceful.
22:20
SPEAKER_00: Uh people that are in my circle of friends are all positive people, and we all have something in common.
22:31
SPEAKER_00: Some of the same belief systems, some of the same ideas.
22:34
SPEAKER_00: And if they're negative, I bring it to their attention that it's not healthy for them.
22:40
SPEAKER_01: If you were to give, so this is the wisdom part of our discussion here.
22:47
SPEAKER_01: So you've you've had a beautiful life.
22:50
SPEAKER_01: You're clearly you've got amazing energy, a beautiful person.
22:53
SPEAKER_01: What wisdom or insights would you share directly with gay men who are maybe at that stage, you know, they're over 50 years old, you know, 60s, 70s, wherever they are.
23:05
SPEAKER_01: And they might be feeling maybe a little bit invisible, maybe a little bit stuck, maybe a little bit uncertain about things and what's going to come next.
23:12
SPEAKER_01: What would you want them to know based on your experience of life?
23:17
SPEAKER_00: Be yourself.
23:19
SPEAKER_00: Be true to yourself.
23:22
SPEAKER_00: I know there are men in other parts of this country, and probably in your country too, that really can't come out and be themselves because of where they're at geographically.
23:37
SPEAKER_00: It may be dangerous.
23:39
SPEAKER_00: Not everyone can just pack up and move someplace that is more accepting for gay men.
23:48
SPEAKER_00: So they have to live however they can.
23:53
SPEAKER_00: I have been to some small towns in this country where I was amazed at some people being out and proud, and nobody, you know, they didn't have any repercussions.
24:06
SPEAKER_00: They just said, Oh, well, that's Fred.
24:09
SPEAKER_00: You know, he's a little eccentric.
24:11
SPEAKER_01: Right.
24:12
SPEAKER_00: He's not eccentric, he's gay.
24:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
24:15
SPEAKER_01: Or that's Mary with Mary with her with her friend that she's lived with for 40 years.
24:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like, well, you know, that's two older ladies that's been living together for 50 years.
24:30
SPEAKER_00: Or I think those two men are cousins or something.
24:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
24:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:38
SPEAKER_01: So being being being yourself, if if there are uh challenges around that, like in your experience or your way of doing that, how can you be yourself more authentically that people could maybe take as an example?
24:53
SPEAKER_00: Oh, to be totally out.
24:56
SPEAKER_00: I was in my early 40s.
24:58
SPEAKER_00: Before that, I was just out to some family and friends.
25:03
SPEAKER_00: When I first totally came out, and I wasn't bisexual or whatever.
25:11
SPEAKER_00: In my case, I don't believe I was bisexual.
25:15
SPEAKER_00: I think I always liked men the best.
25:19
SPEAKER_00: I was gay at five, but I didn't know what gay was.
25:25
SPEAKER_00: I didn't know what sex was, I just knew there was a profound difference from a woman hugging me and a man hugging me.
25:37
SPEAKER_00: Especially I had this thing as a little boy about men in dress suits uh picking me, picking me up and hugging me.
25:47
SPEAKER_00: I it was a different feeling that I didn't know.
25:52
SPEAKER_00: But I think you know, there's probably a lot of men out there that in childhood or teen years had the same feeling or experiences of an awakening that was in deep inside.
26:08
SPEAKER_00: And I do believe people are born gay.
26:12
SPEAKER_00: It bothers me when people say, Oh, but he made a choice.
26:17
SPEAKER_00: No, I don't know anyone that just woke up and said, Oh, today I'm gonna be gay.
26:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no.
26:26
SPEAKER_01: I like your word awakening, and that's part of the the theme in in this wisdom trust podcast and and community is we're awakening, right?
26:37
SPEAKER_01: And um, in this stage in life, in our the wisdom years, I like to call them, we awaken, I think, to a new version of yourself that is more soul aligned as opposed to ego aligned.
26:48
SPEAKER_01: That's that's my take on things.
26:50
SPEAKER_01: But what you just said really resonated with me because as a kid or however old you are, when you awaken to that that that sense of something is different, right?
27:01
SPEAKER_01: And for some, it can be really clear, really fast, and for others, it can be a lot of confusion for a long time before it makes sense, maybe up here.
27:10
SPEAKER_01: So, having said all of that, you know, you talked about being your authentic self and being out completely.
27:17
SPEAKER_01: What would you say to someone who's feeling like, well, I can't do that for whatever reason, because there's always going to be a list of reasons.
27:25
SPEAKER_00: There are people that have their own individual reasons why they're not out or it can't come out, and I respect them and what they're going through because not every place in the world is accepting so you have to find your place.
27:48
SPEAKER_00: I feel sad for people that feel like they're trapped in a certain location, I can't leave here for whatever reason, but at the same time, I cannot be myself.
28:02
SPEAKER_00: Now that's really a problem.
28:05
SPEAKER_00: And lately with I try to stay away from broadcast news.
28:12
SPEAKER_00: But it seems like there's a lot of negative feelings in the USA about gay people in general.
28:23
SPEAKER_00: I read a report last week that a lot of young people feel like they have to go back into the closet because they can't be themselves.
28:33
SPEAKER_01: Right.
28:34
SPEAKER_01: So using this community or communities as sort of a distraction for the bigger issues that are out there.
28:43
SPEAKER_01: That's how a lot of us perceive it anyway.
28:45
SPEAKER_01: And and the news media can be complicit in that as well, for sure.
28:50
SPEAKER_01: Any other final thoughts in terms of folks out there who may be listening to this and and loving your story?
28:59
SPEAKER_01: You know, you've got so much wisdom to share.
29:01
SPEAKER_01: Any any final concluding thoughts that you would like to bring?
29:06
SPEAKER_00: I would tell everyone, as you age, keep an open mind, be open to new experiences and new hobbies, new likes.
29:21
SPEAKER_00: One of my favorite things I like to do is get in my car and crank up the stereo and go for a long drive through the desert.
29:32
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's always exhilarating.
29:34
SPEAKER_00: Beautiful for me.
29:36
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's almost like my meditation.
29:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
29:41
SPEAKER_01: So it could be something simple like that that we might be missing, right?
29:46
SPEAKER_01: Because we're so stuck in perhaps negative thinking or can't do or scarcity mindset, lack thinking.
29:53
SPEAKER_01: And it's like, oh, he goes in his car and turns, cranks up the radio, and feels joy.
29:58
SPEAKER_01: How beautiful is that!
29:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's my joy.
30:01
SPEAKER_00: That's my joy.
30:02
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
30:03
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
30:04
SPEAKER_01: Wonderful.
30:05
SPEAKER_00: And also, I want to tell everyone actually be proactive in your health and your health practices and what you do.
30:17
SPEAKER_00: Watch your diet, exercise, you know, be around positive people and positive experiences.
30:25
SPEAKER_00: Try to block negativity as much as you can because your mental health is just as important as your physical health.
30:35
SPEAKER_01: Right.
30:37
SPEAKER_00: Being in good circumstances can only help you.
30:42
SPEAKER_01: Wonderful.
30:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
30:44
SPEAKER_01: And we have choice, right?
30:46
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes we forget that that we we do have choice.
30:48
SPEAKER_01: We have agency, regardless of our station in life, even if we're in a financially challenged situation, we still have choices to make.
30:58
SPEAKER_01: And not everything costs money.
30:59
SPEAKER_01: There are things that we can do, uh, like building community.
31:03
SPEAKER_01: Um that's part of the objective here is to build community for gay men over 50 who who may be feeling the need for that.
31:12
SPEAKER_01: And so with that, I'm gonna thank you, Dale, so much for giving me this opportunity to have this conversation with you.
31:20
SPEAKER_01: I know that it's gonna resonate with a lot of people.
31:23
SPEAKER_01: I hope so in a number of different ways.
31:26
SPEAKER_01: It's so important for us to have role models, people who maybe a few years older than us, who have have have lived a rich and beautiful life, to just share that is a real gift.
31:38
SPEAKER_01: One of the things in having conversations with men in building towards this whole project was that a lot of us, you know, over 50 feel that the younger generation dismisses us or doesn't see us.
31:53
SPEAKER_01: And I think sometimes we internalize that with our own, you know, internal ageism.
31:58
SPEAKER_01: And so we buy into that.
32:00
SPEAKER_01: But you being here and sharing this story can help to break us out of that that mold of we're invisible, we're unseen.
32:07
SPEAKER_01: You've been very inspiring.
32:08
SPEAKER_01: And I really, you know, hats off to you.
32:11
SPEAKER_01: I really want to thank you for for what you shared here.
32:15
SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you.
32:17
SPEAKER_00: I know it can be hard for a lot of older gay men to make connections because of location, or they just don't get out much.
32:27
SPEAKER_00: You know, check out the internet.
32:30
SPEAKER_00: You can make connections worldwide.
32:34
SPEAKER_00: And some of the friends I've made, I mean, I consider them just as good a friends as if they were physically here.
32:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:43
SPEAKER_00: Because we've had some really good connections.
32:46
SPEAKER_00: I make really good connections.
32:49
SPEAKER_01: Would you be open to inviting people to connect with you on Facebook?
32:53
SPEAKER_01: Because you said that's one of your areas where you like to play.
32:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they could uh connect with me on Facebook and private message me for more conversations.
33:04
SPEAKER_00: That would be nice.
33:05
SPEAKER_01: All right.
33:05
SPEAKER_01: So we've got your Facebook page there, Dale.
33:09
SPEAKER_01: So, folks, if they're interested in in building a rapport with you, having some communications with you, friending you, there they can find you on Facebook.
33:20
SPEAKER_01: So, how's that?
33:22
SPEAKER_00: That's great, thank you.
33:24
SPEAKER_01: Wonderful.
33:25
SPEAKER_01: Now, I think there was one other thing that you were wanting to share.
33:29
SPEAKER_01: Can you do that now?
33:31
SPEAKER_00: I think people, you know, that are lonely and maybe they're looking for connections to other people.
33:44
SPEAKER_00: Everyone likes, you know, humanity, connections.
33:49
SPEAKER_00: Humans are basically very tribal, they're looking for acceptance.
33:56
SPEAKER_00: And what I find important in my life is friendship.
34:01
SPEAKER_00: And you know, just talk be having someone to talk to.
34:07
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's really important.
34:10
SPEAKER_00: Some people are looking for hookups, you know, if that's their thing, so be it.
34:16
SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm happy for them.
34:18
SPEAKER_00: I moved along from that, it's not paramount in my life as much as good friendship, things to do, places to go, shared experiences.
34:32
SPEAKER_00: And I find friendship to be the most important thing of a relationship.
34:40
SPEAKER_00: It's not sexual.
34:41
SPEAKER_00: The friend's first evolves or it doesn't evolve.
34:46
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
34:48
SPEAKER_01: And I I know I'll just echo back.
34:51
SPEAKER_01: I I I agree.
34:52
SPEAKER_01: And I've been a lone wolf most of my life.
34:54
SPEAKER_01: I've been very autonomous, doing my own thing.
34:57
SPEAKER_01: And part of that I know in reflection is was protection and avoidance, right?
35:01
SPEAKER_01: And and a lot of that has healed.
35:03
SPEAKER_01: But at this stage at 60, I I I strongly concur that having connections and stepping into that true essence of yourself that you were talking about earlier is so important, right?
35:17
SPEAKER_01: And there's lots of tools and ways that we can do that.
35:20
SPEAKER_01: And part of that work can look like creating stillness in your life, which can sound the exact opposite of friendship, right?
35:28
SPEAKER_01: But when you allow space for stillness, you know, whatever that looks like.
35:32
SPEAKER_01: And stillness means different things, right?
35:35
SPEAKER_01: Stillness can be in a car driving down the road with the radio blaring, driving through the desert.
35:41
SPEAKER_01: There's a certain focus and stillness.
35:43
SPEAKER_01: When we cultivate that, then we're we're creating space for change.
35:47
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's that's where it all comes down to, right?
35:50
SPEAKER_01: Like doing things that will open you up to maybe things potential that you didn't even realize was possible.
36:00
SPEAKER_01: And one other thing I'm just going to echo back is this thing about being curious, like be open to explore.
36:06
SPEAKER_01: Because when we have that, think of when we were kids and everything like piqued our interest.
36:11
SPEAKER_01: What's that?
36:12
SPEAKER_01: I'm curious.
36:12
SPEAKER_01: I need to when we we don't need to lose that as we age.
36:16
SPEAKER_01: In fact, let's let's let's let's embrace that.
36:19
SPEAKER_01: Let's let's be more curious.
36:22
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
36:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
36:24
SPEAKER_01: Excellent.
36:25
SPEAKER_01: Well, I again I I really want to thank you.
36:27
SPEAKER_01: And I hope that you get lots of people reaching out on Facebook and becoming your friend and friend, right?
36:36
SPEAKER_01: Your virtual friend and ultimately big friend and in in real life, in real terms.
36:42
SPEAKER_01: I'm just letting folks know that you can also find more, build community around this whole wisdom trust through our Substack channel, which I'm showing there.
36:53
SPEAKER_01: So if you're on Substack, there's more, it's more essay form, reflections with some video, but it just gives a different opportunity to explore some of these topics.
37:03
SPEAKER_01: And so go check that out, comment, share, please.
37:08
SPEAKER_01: And then we also have the video of our podcast on our YouTube channel.
37:14
SPEAKER_01: So that's at the Wisdom Trust 5.0.
37:17
SPEAKER_01: So you can look there, and there'll also be other video elements in that platform as well.
37:23
SPEAKER_01: So this is all about growing community, creating different channels for that to happen, and there'll be other social channels as well: Instagram and Facebook as well.
37:36
SPEAKER_01: All right.
37:37
SPEAKER_01: So thanks again, and I look forward to ongoing, you know, discussions with you, Dale, and continuing to learn from your wisdom.
37:46
SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much.
37:48
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
37:49
SPEAKER_00: Have a great day.
37:53
SPEAKER_01: Thank you to our guests today, and thank you for listening.
37:57
SPEAKER_01: If what you heard landed with you, if you felt seen, heard, inspired to make a shift, want to hear about it.
38:05
SPEAKER_01: Get back to me on one of our platforms or where you're listening to or seeing this.
38:11
SPEAKER_01: And if you know another man over 50 who you think would benefit from hearing this, share it with them, please.
38:18
SPEAKER_01: This community grows when we show up for each other.
38:21
SPEAKER_01: You can find more essays on these topics, reflections, and such at our Substack account.
38:27
SPEAKER_01: Watch for other content on our YouTube channel, and stay connected to us through our school platform.
38:35
SPEAKER_01: This is where we engage and are building our community.
38:40
SPEAKER_01: Remember, the second half of life isn't the beginning of the end.
38:45
SPEAKER_01: For many of us, it's the moment life finally begins to open up.
38:50
SPEAKER_01: You're not alone in this.
38:51
SPEAKER_01: We're in it together.
38:54
SPEAKER_01: I'll see you next time in the wisdom.